How To Build An Ideal Workday With Power Naps, Email Delegation & Deep Work Tactics, Featuring Chandler Bolt

Ben Greenfield

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Boundless Life podcast. A lot of people think they can become a millionaire with book sales and the.

Chandler Bolt

But the book can't make you rich from customers. Most people decide to write a book for a specific reason, and it's probably connected to their business. Yeah. So why not just get a bunch of customers instead of getting totally distracted, chasing some vanity list that doesn't move the needle? We do a lot of business development. So it's partnerships, it's speaking, it's all that stuff. And so we have these podcasts that we're trying to get on and that maybe be a six or seven million dollar arm of the company this year.

Ben Greenfield

Welcome to the Boundless Life with me, your host, Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity and beyond. I dropped in to see one of my buddies in Austin, who is actually big in the publishing industry. He's the CEO of SelfPublishing.com. He's a Forbes 30 under 30 honoree. He's the author of seven bestselling books, including one called Publish. That's really good. Me and my sons have read that as a guide for SelfPublishing. And actually, a fun fact, his brother, Seth, plays in the Grammy nominated band Need to Breathe, a big rock band. So he's an interesting guy. And we talk about Chandler's productivity tactics, his day to day routine. It was a very interesting discussion. He's a super inspirational guy. All the show notes for this interview with Chandler Bolt are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com slash Bolt. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com slash B-O-L-T. Let's go talk with Chandler. So Chandler, I like briefly introduced to you, but it's kind of weird. We haven't spent like a lot of time together. Like I played pickleball at your house. Yeah, it's like randomly last year and then jumped off your dock into the lake, and we've never actually sat down and had a conversation. But you're very successful in what you do in the self-publishing industry. And you also take care of yourself. And I've heard a lot of good things about you when you do that. What would you how would you describe to people like what it is that you do in the publishing world?

Chandler Bolt

I like to say self-publishing is entrepreneurial publishing. It's betting on yourself. You know that you've obviously published a bunch of books successfully. We got a book around here we're going to give to you because I know you're working on some fiction. So we'll make that happen here in a bit. And we are predominantly our bread and butter is helping people grow their business using a book or grow their practice. Get leverage to what they're trying to do.

Ben Greenfield

A lot of people think they can become a millionaire with book sales.

Chandler Bolt

But the book can't make you rich. Yeah. From customers.

Ben Greenfield

Right. Exactly. Unless you're like James Clear or Mark Manson or. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Even those guys, I think they probably make more speaking revenue than they do from books. Likely. Yeah. Yeah. How important just randomly do you think it is to be New York Times bestselling author anymore?

Chandler Bolt

It's not important at all. It's just like, I mean, you are, which is pretty impressive.

Ben Greenfield

But I mean, I hear increasingly that like people are impressed by it. And you'd probably know if this true. You can like buy your way in. Yes. You

Chandler Bolt

can definitely buy your way on. I mean, it's a couple hundred grand because you got to buy 10,000 books basically, and you got to filter them through small bookstores, big bookstores, bulk, all the things. But I think it's really it's a really dumb pursuit. Most people are decided to write a book for a specific reason, and it's probably connected to their business. Yeah. So why not just get a bunch of customers instead of getting totally distracted, chasing some vanity list that doesn't move the needle?

Ben Greenfield

I've always wondered. I mean, like with the speaking thing I did here before the people are like, well, you could you could get paid more as a speaker if you're able to say New York Times bestselling author. But even now, like I don't like I get invites to go speak at places, and I guarantee like at least 50 percent of people who are invited me to speak like have no clue. I'm a New York Times author. But I think they're more interested now. Like what do they do on YouTube? Yes. You know, and what can they speak to and do they fit our profile?

Chandler Bolt

I think really, yeah, really what they're asking is, are people paying attention to what this person has to say? Yeah. And if I bring them to speak at my event, are they either going to add a ton of value or move tickets or both? Yeah, I think early on, maybe the New York Times calling card is a little bit important. But to your point, once you've done all the stuff that you've done, most people don't even know. Like, I didn't even realize that until I was doing research for interviews today. Like, oh, cool. I hit the New York Times. You mean that I was New York Times? Yeah, yeah. It was like, oh, OK, cool. Yeah, I know you've done a bunch of books, but I mean, it was just kind of buried in the research.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for for bringing that to light. Digging that digging that up on my record. It's official. Chandler verifies he found it on Wikipedia. So your office, obviously, you're up to a lot because you're working with all these authors. I know you work hard. I recently started following you on social, leading up to this interview to just kind of like see what kind of stuff you get up to. You just like flew across the world somewhere, didn't you? Italy. Yeah. And one of the things that I learned is that you, like me, are a Knapp fan.

Chandler Bolt

Yes. It's a non-negotiable. People make fun of me. I'm on the train of we've got to make Knapp's cool again. It's every day. And and since I started working in this office, it's been harder because I'm napping in the office. So I have kind of like this little contraption where I just had a little pillow where I can kind of do a face down nap.

Ben Greenfield

Do you mean when you fell asleep with the airplane tray?

Chandler Bolt

Probably. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. Very similar. But I mean, I haven't missed a nap for years. My people make fun of me because it's my wife says I'm like a toddler. It's just like if Chandler doesn't get the house, it's not good.

Ben Greenfield

You know, I do the same thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm on the napping bandwagon. And like the way I think about it, and I don't know if this similar for you, is I do like get up earlier than what would be ideal for me to get like the perfect eight hours of sleep.

Chandler Bolt

So

Ben Greenfield

my logic is, well, I can at least get stuff done before the world expects me to have my phone on and for like slack and a sauna and everything are blowing up. So I can like get deep work done and do my morning routine. And then so that like my immune system doesn't suffer. And so I recover, you know, at that point. Well, I need to actually get a sleep cycle in somewhere. So then I for me, it's usually like two p.m. You know, my team knows, you know, unless it's like a totally wrong

Chandler Bolt

call.

Ben Greenfield

They don't schedule anything on Ben's calendar, which would be two and three. And I just stuck away. How long? I do not set an alarm unless I know because usually like I don't have important calls and stuff again until four. So usually it's like two to three. But then there's like a buffer zone for me to catch up on emails and stuff. There's I guarantee there's no I'm going to have two hours.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Right. So the longest I go is like maybe a little over an hour. And oh, wow. And usually it's more like 30.

Chandler Bolt

OK. You would know more about this than I do. I always heard that 30 minutes was the threshold where if you go longer than that, you get into deeper REM sleep. Yeah. And then it's tough. And then you wake up groggy. So I always kind of like I started at twenty two minutes maybe. And then I've now it's a 16 minute nap. But I don't

Ben Greenfield

know that it depends a lot. So so those those studies are done in sleep boards with untrained individuals, meaning people who are in like a tightly controlled sleeping environment where they're measuring circadian rhythmicity. You've got all like the electrodes attached to your head to measure deep sleep and REM sleep, what stages that you're in. And then these people are also not like during that time, either training hard or running a business hard, you know, might sleep, let's say six and a half hours, take 40 minute nap. I'm still tired at night and I get really good sleep scores because I'm still like weightlifting for an hour in the morning and you're pushing my body way harder than I would if I were in like a metabolic ward study in a hospital. And so I think the idea of like napping, messing up your sleep is it's it's new. It's like it's a nuanced discussion. I think the other piece is timing, right? I think it's a bigger mistake to like nap too late in the day.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Generally, the rule is you should be done at least five hours before bedtime. So if you're napping, you better be up for your nap by five. Like, yeah,

Chandler Bolt

it

Ben Greenfield

is. If you're going to go to bed at ten.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah, I kind of subscribe to that where I'm I'm more in the twelve to two kind of range. But basically I eat and then it's almost like for better or worse. Sometimes I wish I wasn't this way on the weekends because I had the same thing happens and it's like, well, I just ate. And then now I have to take a nap. Yeah, or else I got

Ben Greenfield

like on a Saturday. Sometimes you're out for the afternoon with friends. I'm like, it's like your brain starts to go

Chandler Bolt

100 percent. And I'm like, well, you guys go in. I'm going to stay in the car and just like

Ben Greenfield

take a 15 minute nap. And it's trainable for people listening. Yes. Well, I can't sleep. Like I didn't use to be able to sleep on an airplane or a car under a desk. And then you start and you have certain things like I have over your head. Bones. Yeah. App called New Calm. I got like an eye mask. If you have like a napping kid.

Chandler Bolt

Yes. Yes. For me, it's just I'm asking earplugs. But I mean, and then the pillow. But when I was at home, I would go I would actually go in my when I work from home, I would go to bed, obviously, and just get in the bed.

Ben Greenfield

Do you do a lot of like you know, email world, the whole idea of like self quantification, self experimentation and like trying to bring whatever supplements or napping methods or whatever. That's something a lot of people are into now, right? Just like, yeah, it's track quantify. Are you much of like a self experimenter or you just have like your set routine?

Chandler Bolt

I think the big difference between self experimenting and then tracking. I definitely self experiment with a ton of stuff. And I feel like I've I've kind of dialed in and said, like, I'll do challenges like the whole 30 where I'll do that for a month or I'll do. We do a health challenge as a company in February. Well, everyone chooses their own adventure. And like this this year, I did 4000 pull ups and 4000 push ups and sit ups and all this stuff in a month. Yeah. And so I'll do stuff like that. Not a morning. What's that? Not a no, no, no, no, no, no. It wasn't a morning. No, that was basically like 200 pull ups, push ups, sit ups, no alcohol.

Ben Greenfield

No.

Chandler Bolt

Like so I'll do like challenges. I love challenges. I love I mean, I've got my morning routine kind of that. I do a nap eating. I mean, intermittent fasting. So that's kind of for me what works. And then a light lunch and then bigger dinner. But but then the tracking, I think, which is so funny, because in every aspect of my life and in every aspect of my business, I track everything. Yeah. But my I've just never gotten on that side for health. I kind of ignorant. You're probably going to hate this, but I kind of think ignorance is bliss with some of that stuff where I don't want the confirmation bias of, oh, my sleep source sucks. Therefore, I'm tired. I'm like, I feel

Ben Greenfield

great after that perfect night of sleep

Chandler Bolt

until I looked

Ben Greenfield

at my

Chandler Bolt

100 percent. And so I just feel like, OK, it's not going to be all that helpful for me unless I do it for a short period of time just to figure out what works and what doesn't. But I think for a lot of people doing ongoing all the time tracking, it's like marginal utility and it's just more stimuli. Yeah. I don't know what you take. Yeah,

Ben Greenfield

I think. And then there's actually a whole book about this called Unplugged and the idea of being so married to a wearable or sleep or self-quantified data or step down or whatever, to the point where it's stressing you out or becoming such a distraction that, for example, I know people who will like work out for 45 minutes and then spend 10 minutes just like pouring through their data and logging. And I'm like, you probably could have just like worked out if I've been

Chandler Bolt

just

Ben Greenfield

70 minutes a week instead of just like collecting all the data. So I pay attention to certain metrics if especially if I don't feel or I don't have much energy, like I'll check my blood glucose monitor

Chandler Bolt

or

Ben Greenfield

or, you know, because it's very common if you wake up at like two a.m., you're not waking up because it's too loud or the room's too hot or the bed isn't firm enough or whatever. A lot of times between about midnight and two, if you wake up, it's because of low blood glucose. And then I just know I'm like, oh, I probably didn't eat enough for dinner and I should go downstairs and just like have a banana and go back to bed. So it's useful for that. And then heart rate variability, which is basically your measurement of stress or readiness. If that dips, I kind of like because because I take a glance at that score every day and if it dips, I'm not concerned. But then if it goes for like three days and it's lower than usual, that is highly predictive of injury or illness. Like it's super. And so if you if you know that you can nip it in the bud, you like I'm going to take it today. Yeah, it takes a straight list for vitamin C or go get an IV or whatever. So it is kind of cool that you can have a little bit of a crystal ball into, you know, am I going to pull my back at the gym if I hit today? Or am I going to get sick? But then I used to do a lot of indoor sports like triathlon and we would just like have all this stuff like the like the like the cadence meter on the bike and the power meter and the heart rate monitor and the accelerometer and the GPS. And I got to the point where I felt like I was like a running computer. The last in the last two years of racing, I just got like a cheap ass climax and a heart rate monitor. And that was it. And yeah, it's the best because you're you're less distracted and you feel like you're less tied. All the technology that's like running your life.

Chandler Bolt

It's kind of like with morning routines where people the running joke of early on in your career, you have the three hour morning routine. And as you progress, it gets to like it's or something because you realize I don't need to be doing all of these things. Like I kind of just need to wake up. Yeah, you identify the

Ben Greenfield

80 point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have like a like a morning routine?

Chandler Bolt

Yeah, I mean, I kind of I'm Miracle Morning guy. Hal Elrod is one of he sent us probably more authors than anybody ever. And I don't even

Ben Greenfield

know if Hal Elrod been on the podcast. He might have been. I'm second guessing. He might have been like years ago. But for people who don't know, what's the miracle?

Chandler Bolt

Cool. We got it. We got to make we got to make that happen. Hal's one of the most inspiring guys I've ever met. The Miracle Morning. Basically, he has this savers framework, right, which is silence. So meditation A is for affirmation. V is for visualization. E is for exercise. R is for reading. S is for scribing. So journaling. And so he had he died in the car wreck. Or he he got pronounced dead multiple times in his life. Car wreck. Cancer. And he found this savers kind of mantra of a miracle morning. And so I think early on, I subscribed to all of that. Now I kind of have an abbreviated version of that. But either way, it's live or die by my morning routine. But if I don't do my morning routine, my day is kind of off the rails. If I do it, it's which is ninety nine point nine percent of the time I do it. And so it's just it's pretty basic. It's just waking up. It's taking vitamins and stuff. It's basic workout like body workouts. Yeah. Like push ups, pull ups, sit ups, all that stuff. It's reading. So I got an audio book in. The audio counts. I count it personally.

Ben Greenfield

I count it like if I listen to audio books in a month and read. Oh, yeah. Like I tell people like I did ten books.

Chandler Bolt

Yes, 100 percent. I'm very much in that camp. So I'll tear through an audio book and then I'm getting back on the meditation train. Like I used to do the whole thing. It was like I would listen to my affirmations. Yeah, I would do my visualizations. I would, you know, I would I had affirmations that my brother recorded me and I would listen to those and then and I would do a meditation. And I just kind of like pared it back a lot. But I've noticed as of late, I haven't meditated in years. And I need to bring that back. Yeah, it was just too much. Does breathwork count for you, the meditation? I think so. Yeah, I don't really do it unless I'm in a setting where someone's leading it. Like I don't have an app or something.

Ben Greenfield

I was at a workout this morning and we like finished with breathwork. And I did breathwork religiously for probably like eight years. And I like it because you are meditating, but you're also doing a lot of like gas exchange, pulmonary stuff. So I almost feel like meditation with extra benefits. And I feel I feel the same relaxation and peace. And I'm still to visualize, for example, on the exhale hold. But it's almost like it's just sitting there. And maybe, you know, meditators would just absolutely hate this description, but it feels like more productive meditation. Totally. Yeah.

Chandler Bolt

That is the intensity of

Ben Greenfield

meditation. Yeah, it's like, I don't know, it's like walk. It's like walking prayer. It's like, yes, I'm praying, but I'm also on a hike.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah, my

Ben Greenfield

body and getting sunshine and nature. And so I

Chandler Bolt

like that. And honestly, I feel like breathwork is almost better than meditation because it's what you're doing anyway. Yeah. And again, like probably the meditation experts would hate that as well. But I think it feels like it's what you're doing anyway, which is getting yourself to focus on your breath. Yeah. But more productive.

Ben Greenfield

Are you a like like a water guy, cold plunge, float tank, like any of

Chandler Bolt

that stuff? Yeah. It's so funny. I feel like I don't know if you've experienced this, maybe less so because it's more of your job. But I feel like I had I was like dialed in on all of these things. I floated away from those things. And now I'm introducing a bunch of them back. It's like I got a cold plunge and sauna at the house. We're in a kind of baby making mode. So the sauna is off the table for now. Oh, man. And even if you get like the ice your balls everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know,

Ben Greenfield

you know, hot tub's worse, though. Hot tub's worse because the scleral tissue is just like closer to the water. But yeah, sauna is. So the heat is off the table. Impactful on on fertility in a negative way. So you're not doing sauna, but you're doing

Chandler Bolt

cold plunge. I need to get back at it. But I used to do a lot of cryotherapy and a lot of float tanks. Like I mean, and I still do float tanks sometimes, but it's more, OK, there's a big thing happening in my life or big decisions that I need to be making or an off site coming up where we're going to.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah.

Chandler Bolt

Strategic stuff. Let me float tank ahead of that so I can both relax, but then also clear my mind on some decisions I need to make. So kind of kind of strategically positioning where it needs to be.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. Do you like have a float tank or you go? No, I just go. Yeah. I love my life. I do. Do you have one? No, I had one. And it's just a lot of upbeat, the basement gets all salty and there's water everywhere. It's a cool concept, though. The last time I did one was here in Austin, this place called Kuya. So thanks. And my wife and I did a couple's school. And as soon as I get in there within like 15 minutes, I'm dead to the world. Yeah. It's like snoring and thrashing.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

And she hates it. She she literally just like listening to me, snore and thrash. You always follow the. Yeah. And like saying anything sensory deprivation for me, because I don't know if you're this way, like like if I am not in a sensory deprived scenario, I'm just pushing and thinking and analyzing and planning the whole time. But as soon as you like put me in somewhere where I'm just like not allowed to do that, right? Yes. Chamber or, you know, sometimes an airplane counts. Yeah. If you decide to keep the Wi-Fi off or a float tank like massage. Like, yeah, like that. Although for massages, I do have like a voice recorder under the table. Like I like it. OK, so that's the worst. I get like if you're in a massage and they do make blow tanks now with orders in the ceiling. But yeah, if you're in that scenario and you do want to relax, but you have a brilliant thought and then you get the thought. You can't. And it's just like this worm in your brain. Yeah. So I've learned that having a recorder handy for sessions like that is good and I have

Chandler Bolt

it

Ben Greenfield

running all the time. But but yeah, if if I get sensory deprived, yeah, I'll be like a light. A lot of times, like I'll combine that with an app like a hyperbaric.

Chandler Bolt

That's smart. I love the voice recorder idea because you're totally right. You get an idea and then you're like, well, I can't forget it.

Ben Greenfield

Right. And there are voice activated voice recorders, too. Cool. So, yeah, like you go to Amazon voice activated voice recorder and then like rather than running it the whole time and then you say something and you don't remember, was that like the thirty five minute mark or whatever? Like you just like got your audio.

Chandler Bolt

Nice. That's cool. I like that. I always fall asleep in the float tank. I'd only I got a funny story on a one time I was living in San Diego and I started this entrepreneur house and it was kind of a way for me to optimize my health in the business. And all this just move a bunch of people into a house. And so I was I was taking a buddy to try out the float tank for the first time. And we got stuck in in in traffic because it rained. And when it rains in Southern California, people just lose their mind and forget how to drive. And so we finally get to the float tank place like an hour late. And they said, hey, the only thing we got, you're past your appointment. We can't let you go in. But only thing we got is a couple's tank.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah.

Chandler Bolt

I'm like, I'm down.

Ben Greenfield

That's the only time I've ever been in a couple's float tank. It was the weirdest thing ever. That's like the heart shaped hot tub in Dumb and Dumber. Yeah. Speaking of trying to have babies. So you guys are on like a fertility. Yeah.

Chandler Bolt

Quest.

Ben Greenfield

Are

Chandler Bolt

you actually on this thing about your

Ben Greenfield

herbs? And oh, really? OK, maybe we should say about them. How long have you been married? Two years

Chandler Bolt

married. OK. We've been maybe trying for six or seven months.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. Yeah. And is your wife into like fitness, health, biohacking, that kind of stuff?

Chandler Bolt

Less of biohacking, but basic fitness health. Like, yeah. Athlete.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. You mentioned like all these different steps that you're going through and how Elrod's Miracle Morning. Did you say that visualization is actually one of the steps? It is. Yeah. That was called visualization.

Chandler Bolt

What was the acronym that you used? STAVERS. Oh yeah. The V in SAVERS. What's that look like? Yeah. You know, it's so funny. It's been a long time since I've done that specific step. But it is it's literally I mean, he would probably say it differently than this, but it's just sitting there visualizing your ideal life. You're doing it's not

Ben Greenfield

just like your day. It's like your life. Yeah. Every single day.

Chandler Bolt

At least that's how I remember it. I was more on the affirmations. That was more my thing. Now I would do some visualization, but it was like, you know, like I would have a 60 second track that I listened to. Hey, I'm Taylor Bowen. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. And I'm listening to that. And then I would pair that with I had my brother recorded it for me of like him kind of speaking life into me. So it's like, OK, I'm hearing that first thing in the morning. Yeah, I was.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah, I was really. So with affirmations, are you like repeating those? I actually don't do a lot of these myself. But are you like looking at yourself in the mirror or like in a book and you're reading them? You said your brother recorded them for you. So obviously you're listening to some of

Chandler Bolt

them.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. How's it work?

Chandler Bolt

Early on, it was it was I had a note and I would say it out loud. And so I would read the note and I would say it out loud. And it would be things that I'm, you know, I'm speaking to life or the things that I'm wanting to embody in my life. And then later on, it became just listening to them. Like I've recorded it. And so then it's almost kind of like hearing that.

Ben Greenfield

So typical work day for you. Are you into anything related to like biomechanics, ergonomics of the workplace, like are you doing stand up desks or anything like that? As far as like, yeah, like things physically that affect your mental game.

Chandler Bolt

You name it as it relates to work productivity. And I've probably tested it. Try it or do it. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we're very alike in this where I think early on in my life, I was blue collar worker. So, I mean, my parents met working night shift at a factory. I'm from the middle of nowhere, South Carolina. All of my jobs growing up were manual labor. And it was slinging mulch. It was running landscaping businesses. It was painting houses and running house painting companies. And then when I moved over into white collar work, I said, holy cow. I think it's people are going to think this crazy. I think it's harder because for me, I'm like, cool, you drink the night before you do whatever. Yeah. Blue collar work. You like roll

Ben Greenfield

out of bed at 6 a.m. And you're like, I paint it all through college.

Chandler Bolt

And then you're like, OK, I'm out there and I could go work a 13 hour day. No problem. Yeah. And it did not matter how I slept, what I put in my body. I was not thinking about any of those things. But then as soon as you switch over to white collar work, it's all between the years. And then I realized, oh, if I have a beer at the end of the day, I am groggy the next day. Yeah. Oh, if I am sitting all day like this. And so then then I started down this journey of just testing basically everything. And so it started when my work from home set up. Obviously, now we launched the office a couple of years ago and have built that up. But stand up desk, little wobble thing. Yeah. Under my feet. Like a balance board. Balance board. Elevated stuff. And like elevated computer, the napping. Just like a bajillion things like

Ben Greenfield

that. Yeah. You messed around much with like lighting, like circadian. I haven't. No. That's a huge one for me now because. It's big in the documentary. I love that. Yeah, we do. We do. We talk about red light in the documentary, which is good for like mitochondrial stimulus or like pain, inflammation, recovery, stuff like that. But if you look at modern overhead LED fluorescent lighting, it's like this flicker that it creates and a little bit of extra electromagnetic field that it produces. So interesting. Wi-Fi router, for example. Yeah. So if the entire office is equipped with those kind of lights, you're just basically creating like low level irritation to the retina that I think towards especially like the end of the day, like mid-afternoon.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Starts to impact things like brain fog, awareness and just cognitive performance in general. So in my office, I have only what's called full spectrum lighting. Meaning instead of just like concentrated blue LED fluorescent light, all the bulbs. We went with a company called Block Blue Light. All the bulbs can switch from like red for nighttime to orange for twilight, bright for day, but more like full spectrum bright. And then there is like another lamp like right by my like writing table that's just like as close to the sunlight spectrum as possible. Nice. It's I think it's underrated. The idea of like switching out the lighting scenario in the home or the office to be basically like as close as possible what you find in nature and then have the ability to have like when you're working in the morning, if it's dark, like have it just be red light or if you're working in the evening when it's dark, have it just be red light. So you kind of got like sunrise, sunset, sandwich in between like bright, full spectrum light. It's a game changer for me as far as like alertness and productivity during the day.

Chandler Bolt

I'd be curious, how would you think about that for an office like this? Would you just have you have you have you done?

Ben Greenfield

So you've got like obviously you have like the big people watching or you can't see this, but like the big panel based lights that probably those probably have like two base LEDs running through them. Those are a little bit more difficult to replace. But in a scenario like that, you can take like a typical lamp stand like this lamp stand behind

Chandler Bolt

you

Ben Greenfield

and just like put a few of those in each room and then block blue light is one company. Bond Charges, another company and then a company called Raw Optics just came out with a really good one. But you put those bulbs in the standalone lamps. So at any given room where someone's working, they have the option not to flip on the bright overhead LED fluorescent lights and can just use those. Yeah, spectrum lighting.

Chandler Bolt

It's something where this a temporary space, but it's something that it's so interesting working from home for so long and just kind of perfecting and dialing in that setup and then switching to the office. It's disrupted a lot of that, obviously. But then now it's got me thinking, OK, well, we've got a whole team here. How can we optimize this space? Not just my space.

Ben Greenfield

And it's tricky when it's a whole team. I mean, so our offices for EON, my supplements company, are in Boulder. And we just replicated as much as possible in terms of just like the movement part of things, like less on how geeked out I've been in my office with like air, light, water and like hardwiring the electricity or hardwiring to Ethernet, HIPPOID, Wi-Fi. But there it's more like movement, in my opinion, trumps a lot when it comes to staying fit through the day or keeping your metabolism elevated or whatever. So we've got the stand up desk. We've got like a pull up bar, kettle bells, inversion table, like a jungle gym type of thing. So basically in the same way that you don't want a bunch of like clear glass jars of M&Ms everywhere in the office. It's

Chandler Bolt

like

Ben Greenfield

insight in my people more likely. You know, like if people are like gripping over exercise equipment in your office or like having to walk under yoga trapeze or pull up bar or whatever, like you're just creating an environment where people move and also sending the message of like it's acceptable to move at work. Like we're not going to like brown on you for lack of productivity if we find you crank out, if you pull up, you know, on a Zoom call or whatever.

Chandler Bolt

I like that a lot. And I saw this in the documentary. And and so I know you do this sometimes. I'm assuming you're a treadmill desk guy, too. Do you like that or not so much?

Ben Greenfield

There's levels, though. So I used to have just like a normal treadmill, like the treadmill you find in the gym, like the motorized belt and everything. And then there's kind of two things, actually three. One is the motor makes noise. So if you're on calls, I'm like, I'll even record sometimes while I'm walking.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah,

Ben Greenfield

like that gets in the way. And and the treadmills are actually really, really high source. Speaking of EMF of EMF. So it's like having just like an extra Wi-Fi router in your office. And then the ones that move, they kind of keep your feet moving, but you don't have to really activate your glutes to push off. So like biomechanically, you're just using less of the muscles that kind of help support the body and strength, low back. So then I did a manual treadmill. Now I got this one from this company called Walkolution. So a solution like Walkolution. And it's like this foam surface that's super whisper quiet that you can walk on barefoot or with your shoes on. And then there's no motor. And then have you seen those treadmills that they use? Crossfit games where they're curved like with gunnels. It's like that. And so the curve makes it so you actually have to use your glutes like push off in order to move the belt. And I probably get probably like 10,000 steps plus a day. Oh, wow. Just working. Yeah, I just zoom calls or I've gotten to the point where I can read a book or just walking on the treadmill, which is super nice because I don't know about you, but like for my job, for the podcast, I read a lot of books.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah. Do you do you do stand up, sit down? Do you ever sit down during the night? Sitting down right now, dude.

Ben Greenfield

I don't sit that much. No, no, I don't. Like usually for me, it's alternating standing and walking. And then I am building out a new studio right now, but we're putting in a chair that's kind of like a saddle chair. That's difficult to describe. People can Google it and look it up or whatever, but it kind of like splits your pelvis and it feels like you're sitting on a horse saddle and you don't really have back support. So it's kind of like the old school method of like sitting on a stability ball or strong, but it's like that's like a chair without a back. So you're still kind of forced to use the muscles to keep your posture upright. I

Chandler Bolt

got a funny story about you that I learned recently. That's about not sitting. I ran into Josh Pizzoni and at the at your documentary premiere. And so people were

Ben Greenfield

saying Josh is like, oh, he's like OG and like the supplements industry. Yeah. Super successful. I

Chandler Bolt

would trust back in the day. Yeah. Him and Joe Marion and some I'm just like, hey, well, you know, talking about that you and and how did you meet him? How do you know him? And he said, for the first time, I'm on this plane. Do you remember this story? Oh, he said the first time I ever met this guy, I didn't know him. And I was on a plane. And this guy keeps pacing the plane. And he's like, and then at some point, the story is like, hey, you've got to sit down. He said, he said, so I'm like, OK, I know this guy. And then I go to this conference and then there's this guy next to me squatting in this. Yeah. And he said, they're like, and welcome to this. Me running, he jumps out of his seat and runs up there. And I'm like, oh, that's that guy from the plane. So, yeah, your reputation for you never sit down.

Ben Greenfield

So so that I put this on Instagram. And for some reason, people thought it was hilarious or rude or inconvenient or odd. But if you get up as soon so, let's say you're going to be on a long flight and you want to stretch or whatever, do air squats. And as soon as the seatbelt light turns off, which is at whatever, how many thousand feet you get up and you go to the back, even if you're in first is like, go, go to the rear lab and you like go in the rear lab, whether you have to go or not, like whatever, just like the crown, your phone, whatever. And and then shortly after that seatbelt sign turns off, they bring all the carts out from the rear of the airplane. And the stewardesses for like the next 20 minutes are just serving people. And you have an entire like rear of the airplane to yourself when you come out of the bathroom, just like do squats, do leg swings, stretch out. So it's like you're a little yoga room back. And then nobody care because the stewardesses, you're not in their way. I stick their ass in their face doing air squats or whatever because they're like off serving. And that's and it's it's it's the best airplane movement hack ever. So you got hate for that? A little bit. Yeah, it's so weird. You go in the bathroom and. Yeah, but it works. Works every time. Never backfired. So are you traveling a lot for your job also? Decent amount. Yeah,

Chandler Bolt

yeah. I try not to, but I'll end up speaking at 10 or 15 events a year. Yeah, we I mean, we've got a speaking team, so we'll speak at 50 to 70 events a year. But most of the time it's the team. Yeah. And then I'll

Ben Greenfield

go to the big ones. Yeah. How much of that routine, like the napping and the miracle morning stuff and cold plunging or anything else you try to maintain some semblance of on the road?

Chandler Bolt

I would say, I don't know, maybe 60 percent of it. The nap, for sure. I mean, no matter where I'm at, the nap is the non-negotiable. Now, when I'm speaking, the big thing for me is peak energy. And so I try to always speak in the morning. I will almost never eat before I speak. Yeah, because that brings my energy.

Ben Greenfield

When you say morning, are you

Chandler Bolt

like eight, nine, ten? Like, do you know how to be on stage? I mean, yeah, definitely before 11 if I can. Yeah. Now it gets a little weird if I have to do in the afternoon because then I try not to eat before. So then there will be like some VIP lunch or something. And a hundred percent. And so then maybe I'll try to push some things because I just as much as unless, sure, I'll have an if I'm speaking at like two or three. Yeah, sure. I'll do a normal morning and then I will have I will eat and I will have a nap.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. And then. Yeah. And then you go speak. That's funny. We're so similar. Yeah. Like if I'm asked to speak somewhere, I usually tell people prime time for me, put me on stage and they're between ten and one. Yeah. So you're done before lunch. And allows me to, like, get up, get the sleep I need. A lot of times these events have like evening parties or whatever. And so I can give a five a.m. and then get a workout in, you know, be fresh, get down, give the talk and like the food thing. I'll do like a light meal or I'll do like some ketones or amino acids.

Chandler Bolt

Sure.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. But very, very similar for me. It's like empty stomach, get some movement and get a good night of sleep. And obviously sometimes they can't accommodate that where you're speaking. But yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect scenario.

Chandler Bolt

That's the perfect setup. Otherwise you get a coffee nap or something.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Gary Brekka talks about this, too. He's big in like the human physiology and biomechanics and health space. And, you know, when he's traveling and this relevant to anybody, even if they're not like a speaker or whatever, like he he tries to set up the schedule so that no matter what kind of meeting is happening during the day, he is able to get his morning routine and his workout in prior to that meeting. So like my team knows, like anytime I'm traveling, like podcasts, you know, meetups, meetings, Zoom calls, whatever. It's fine to schedule any of that stuff, even without running time by me, as long as it's after 10

Chandler Bolt

a

Ben Greenfield

.m. is like before then it's all protected and it makes life so much better. Especially when you're traveling. Like when you get up and you don't have to be rushed and, you know, you can get your training in. Do

Chandler Bolt

you do the same at home?

Ben Greenfield

At home, typically it's about nine, 30 or 10.

Chandler Bolt

Is your kind of. Yeah. Yeah, we are very similar, because for me, it's it's eight to 10. No meetings before 10 p.m. is kind of or 10 a.m. is kind of my thing, because that's prime time. Yeah. I mean, unless it unless it is on my number one thing. So I've got. Hey, OK. This maybe I'm on a podcast tour or I'm doing this like, OK, we'll get it. And then sure. But other than that, no, you got to protect that sacred time. And then,

Ben Greenfield

yeah, a lot of people like, well, if you don't start work till 10 and you're doing a nap, like, what are you actually working during?

Chandler Bolt

But if you

Ben Greenfield

think about it, so let's say you're starting work at like 945 or whatever. I don't know about you, but like once it starts like I am not like water cooler chatting. No, not at all. I am like a horse with blinders. If you come up and talk to me during that time, I'm likely going to totally ignore you. Yeah, I'm not an asshole to my family members because I have a home office. But yes, I'm pretty guarded with that time.

Chandler Bolt

Right.

Ben Greenfield

Lunch. Same thing. Like I will have lunch, but I'm I'm doing stuff. Yeah, I'm 100 percent. And then there's a nap. And then as soon as the nap is done, it's like just more work, work, work. Well, until dinnertime. I think a lot of people just like like when they're at work, they don't actually work. Now, if you actually do, you can afford like a morning routine. Yes. And even like a afternoon siesta. I feel like we're having like a kids these days discussion. Like, yeah, it's like people just don't work hard during the time they do have.

Chandler Bolt

I'm of the same opinion. I mean, it's been very eye opening to actually start working with people in an office. Yeah, it's like this you almost realize some of your weird tendencies. Yeah, I mean, you're describing we are very, very similar. And it was you kind of feel like you're being a dick all the time, because I remember when I work from home, I just tell my wife or whoever, or you got a mailman or contractors coming into our site. Yeah, I know it looks like I'm at home. I'm actually not home right now. I'm at work. Yeah. So I'm not here. Yeah, that that

Ben Greenfield

has happened to me with contractors literally looking in the window and seeing that I'm home and they text me and they're like, so is this a good time for us to meet up on project? And I'm like, no, I'm working. Yeah, I'm actually not. I think I'm going to like see me inside, like whoever in my office on a Zoom call or whatever. I'm like, you don't understand. Like, this a highly protected time for me. Yes. And it sounds like it's very rigid and unforgiving. But I think being protective of that time, it's very similar to the gym, right? Like there are so many people that hit the gym and they're just like dicking around their phone for three minutes in between sets. I'm like, you can get double the amount of work done or be done in half the time. Like if instead of like scrolling through Instagram after a set of bench press, like go to your planks, go to your arches, whatever, do some core work, come back, bench press, bench press, like compress it all together. Yeah. But yeah, the time wasting in general, I don't know about you, but like it's it's it's one of the most annoying things for me.

Chandler Bolt

We're very similar. And I think we probably share a similar methodology or kind of mantra, which is just I'm all in and I'm all out. Yeah. Like if I'm at work, I am at work and I'm not doing anything else. But then also, if I'm not at work, I am not at work. So I don't have Slack, Asana on my phone. I'm not tethered to email. I don't even have email on my phone. I don't even really check. You don't have email on your phone at all. I mean, I technically do, but I. You could if you had to. It's probably been three months since I've checked my email, maybe longer. I just don't.

Ben Greenfield

How do you know the content of email that people are sending to you? Do you have like an assistant who.

Chandler Bolt

Assistant, yeah. Debriefs you? She kind of just handles it. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I don't really I don't know. I I'm probably missing opportunities, but in just

Ben Greenfield

my mind. Well, I mean, like what if I send you an email and it was like, hey, Chandler, you know, whatever, this super important. I got us a reservation. The best place in town, 7 p.m. tonight. You're in. Oh, yeah. I just need a quick reply from you. Like, if you're resisting it, like text you or whatever. But like. She'll

Chandler Bolt

just Slack me or put it on my calendar. OK. Or like, hey, you got this from Ben. Like, are you in? Cool. I'll put it on your calendar. Like, she'll just coordinate that. And usually that's like a text. Slack. Yeah. So because it's similar to you, actually, or maybe maybe we have different workflows. But for me, when I show up at this office within a 500 foot radius, it just turns my phone into work mode. Yeah. So then I don't get any notifications unless it's from my wife. And then I just put my phone over here. And so I'm not and I don't have text on my computer either. So I'm just like when I am at work, Slack, because the people who have access to me or the people who need access to me when I'm at work, which is Slack. So and then that is my assistant would just Slack me because I'm there. So if people are texting me during work, like I'll batch look at it every couple hours or something. But I mean, it's not like I'm heathered to it and it's on my computer or whatever else. And so I'm just kind of locked into that zone. But then for everything else, for her, for email, she'll just get it to the right person. Yeah. So if someone's like, hey, let's do some partnership stuff. It's like, oh, hey, this Chandler's assistant. I got to where he could let me loop you with Pedro and we'll talk about that or just kind of. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Part about the 500 square feet, so you can like do you do like a G like a location specific disabling of apps or notifications?

Chandler Bolt

Yes. Of notifications. Yes. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. I mean, it's like I know it's a you know, like when you swipe down and you look at the do not disturb or whatever, there's a there's a work mode. Yeah. And so that you can just say until I leave this location and then you can just program it in your settings. And so then for me, it's just and then you can choose the people who, you know. So for me, it's like, yeah,

Ben Greenfield

I do that occasionally for sleep because my phone's in an airplane mode, typically, or at least, you know, one time I go to bed to at least an hour after I get up. But there is like if I know something's happening or like, let's say my sons are on a trip away from home and I know like if shit hits the fan, like I might need to help them with like a flight change or something. Yeah. Like sleep mode. You can literally put it in sleep mode. Notifications disabled and like only allow a phone call from said river. Yeah.

Chandler Bolt

Cool. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Which is pretty cool. Yeah. I love that. And I think a lot of people don't realize like how virtual the do not disturb function

Chandler Bolt

technology is more advanced than most people's thinking of how to use it. It's like just just if I use it and just change a couple of settings and then you don't have to be a default. Yes, to the stimulus, which I think I know you're a big proponent of. I am, too, is just like I think so many people just default. Yes, everything they default. Yes. Every notification they default. Yes. To all of this stimuli. And then you wonder why at the end of every day you're just so fried. Well, it's because of decision fatigue.

Ben Greenfield

And you've got a limited willpower. And you train everyone who is pinging with notifications. A hundred percent. The response time is X. And if it's quick, they begin to rely on that. Yeah. And begin to think something's wrong. If you don't. The communication medium that I tend to use a lot to avoid phone calls is now called Boxer. You hear this one?

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

Asynchronous communications like a

Chandler Bolt

walkie

Ben Greenfield

talkie. And it saves me probably like at least five or six phone calls a day because rather than get on a call, people just leave me a quick.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah.

Ben Greenfield

What's what's your your time management method when it comes to. Communication. Inevitable email or text that says, yeah, can you help on a call?

Chandler Bolt

That's really tough. I because I'm a people pleaser, but I also care a lot about wasting time and I don't want to waste time. And so for me, I'm kind of a default. No, I'm a default. No to coffees, to lunches, to quick calls, to whatever else. So I've had to try to learn how to tactfully redirect of through, oh, hey, let me connect you with my right hand guy. And they'll chat about that or whatever else. So I just kind of try to offload that or I've got a thing. This more for internal employees, but it's basically a communication guidelines document like, hey, this how to communicate with me. Communicate with me in writing. Don't hop on a quick call if you need a decision. Send something in writing ahead of time if you even need a call. You know, it's just like stuff like that to try and teach people the preference, because I think in the absence of communicating your preferences, people will just throw their preference on you. And so that's where even with Boxer and stuff like that, that works for them. Yeah. And so that's why this kind of seemed I don't know. This a people probably won't like this, but I'm a big fan of Boxer or not necessarily Boxer. I just use voice like voice memos. But one way I because I know if I send you a voice memo, it's going to be a minute or two and it's going to be punchy. And nothing pisses me off more than someone sending me a five minute voice memo. And they're just like, that's why Boxer is good before exit. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Like if you're in a

Ben Greenfield

meeting, you transcribe it, too.

Chandler Bolt

So if

Ben Greenfield

somebody leaves

Chandler Bolt

you like a

Ben Greenfield

five minute Boxer and I'm in a meeting and I just want to read Annapolis Billhead or whatever, literally. That's nice. And then with with calls, I'm very similar. And I find myself a lot more these days when people ask for a quick call. I literally say I don't do calls anymore. Just fill me in via email, because it's like I can read through process and think about and respond to an email. Yeah. Way faster than like, again, not to be an asshole. I'm sure you feel like this sometimes, too. 100 percent, yeah. Like there's a hey, how are you, how's life, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like two minutes into the call, there's nothing that's happened. And it takes two minutes to get off the call. Yeah. And you actually have to schedule it. It's just this giant whiplash effect. Like I, it's not that I don't do calls because I actually do sometimes. But my gut reply is typically like, I just don't.

Chandler Bolt

I'm the same way.

Ben Greenfield

It's like it's like in health, right? Like if you just say I don't do dessert. Yes. Sometimes you do. So identify with being that person.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah. I will never identify with that person. I love dessert. But I yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a similar way with communication stuff. Just default. No default. Send it to me in text. Because I think this the important thing for people to hear. If if you choose to do that again, you don't have to be a default. Yes. To everyone's request. You don't even have to reply, which that was a weird one for me. I've got probably, I don't know, 500 unread text messages. And that and early on, when the business started taking off, I realized that there's this book I love, a guy here in Austin, actually, Jay Papasan, The One Thing. Yeah. And he talks about fear. Gary Keller was the one thing. It's the two of them. So basically, Gary Keller. Jay wrote the book and they worked together with at Keller Williams. But he he talks about the four horsemen or like the four sabotagers of success. Yeah. And one of them is the fear of chaos. And I realized that was totally me. And and because what would happen is things would start getting busy. There would be chaos. And then I would slow down how fast I was moving things forward because I felt like I had to calm the chaos. A.K.A. I have to have zero unread text messages. That was a story that I was telling myself. I have to respond to everybody. And then eventually I just said, hey, this not serving me. I people do not. It's like I was a default. Yes. Do I have to respond to people? And I realized that you can just be a default now. You can just.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. We looked into this and I don't know if this possible. I haven't found a solution for this yet, but it's pretty easy to outsource to an executive assistant. Most notification based apps like Slack, Asana, Boxer, maybe not a little bit. Email definitely with text messages. Have you figured out a way to actually like give someone access to your text messages? Maybe not a few people who you don't want them. Yeah, I mean, like, let's say your wife and literally have someone filling text for you without them actually having your phone.

Chandler Bolt

Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a way it's on your computer through iMessage. You can just have them log into your iMessage. But that's a weird one for me because I've been on the other end of that. And it pissed me off. Like I was texting someone and then they're like, hey, it was like clearly an assistant. And I'm and then I'm like, but what are they pretending to be? The person in there, clearly an assistant or it was

Ben Greenfield

just murky.

Chandler Bolt

It was a little murky. And then it was this person who I'm like, well, hey, I don't have any other way to communicate with you. And now the last way that I can communicate you with you is even not you. I was like, what's going on here, dude? I'm like, how did I reach this

Ben Greenfield

guy? I have like a VIP list that you can't actually get through. But that's the one that's for me. Like if I like I like to hunt and sometimes like if I go hunting and it's like gone for a week and I put some money on the email inbox and I can yeah, you know, it's like the text messages are still a thing that matter what we come out of the wilderness. It's like, yeah, there's 500 and I don't know which ones are important. So now I have to just like go check them all out.

Chandler Bolt

I'm not I'm not saying it's like a blanket. No, I think if you're tactful with it, 100 percent. And you can. But what I have found, which is kind of interesting, is with Claude, you can connect your texts. And so for me, a big use case, I don't know if this the same for you. We do a lot of business development. So it's partnerships, it's speaking, it's all that stuff. And so we have these podcasts that we're trying to get on or stages that we're trying to book. And I've got my whole team that's doing that. And that may be a six or seven million dollar arm of the company this year. Then over here, I am texting with people who could easily open doors over here. But then I just will either forget or it's just, you know, so I'm not connecting the dots. And so what I found is I just have Claude review my text and then send a weekly report or you could do this on any cadence. Like you could even do this to your assistant of, hey, there's a daily cadence. Like, say you're in the woods like, hey, here's all the texts that Ben got. Yeah. Can you reach out to them being in this? There's like for me, the use case is review this and then connect the dots over here.

Ben Greenfield

It's a good idea, because a lot of times those same texts we would have an email associated with them if they had access to like Contacts Plus, for example, for contacts management software with the Claude. And is it like a Claude to iMessage? Yeah. And so you would just like going to connectors in Claude. Exactly. That appears as an option. It is an option. And then you connect it and that could send you like a daily digest. It could. Yeah. And somewhat. The

Chandler Bolt

use case that is for me is there's a weekly roundup of like partnership stuff that we're doing. And then it'll and it sends this in Slack to my business development team. And then it'll say, oh, hey, Chandler, you were texting Ben Greenfield. Well, Ben Greenfield has been on Chris Williamson's podcast. You're trying to get on Chris Williamson's podcast. Here's the text that you could send to whatever. And so it just like it'll it'll go a level deeper of like, hey, who are all the contacts? And then it will tie that to these partnerships that we're doing. And then we'll say, oh, by the way, Dean Graziosi was on Lewis Howe's podcast four times. You should probably reach out to him this week and ask him whatever. And you were just texting with him.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah. He's kind of like a six degrees of separation of a decoder. There's you know Dan Martell.

Chandler Bolt

They

Ben Greenfield

would. Oh, yeah. He does some good stuff and especially in the world now and has incubated a lot of companies in that space. And one of them is I'm going to point to their social sweep or social swell.

Chandler Bolt

It's social sweep. Yeah. That that can ask

Ben Greenfield

crazy hole in. And I have I use it. My team uses it, but it will pull in all of your connections, like your contact list, your Rolodex, everybody who follows you on Instagram, Facebook X. And they're like you can technically import if to export your LinkedIn connections and import them as an Excel file. So it's a little wonky. But then once you get all of that imported, you can then query it and be like, hey, like I'm traveling to Dallas. Yeah, totally. Are the top ten people in Dallas who specialize in or lets you have a health podcast who might be likely to want to interview me or, you know, or who owns a biohacking recovery facility? I could reach out to you. I can get a good nap in a hyperbaric chamber or whatever. And it will go through and just like scrape everything. And it's super smart following you on Instagram or notable. We got to do that connected to or could be connected to because there's like one degree of separation. And I think I don't think it's being expensive. So I think it's sort of like close to 10K. But as far as like being able to. Your value. Ball for you, like a relationship mechanism.

Chandler Bolt

I remember I was up in Kelowna in his office, I think, when they were in early development on this and he was showing me this. And I'm like, this crazy. But so is this how you is this how you remember to invite me to your documentary? Probably because. Because I would say I'm thinking I'm like, wow, how did he remember that I live in Austin?

Ben Greenfield

So contacts plus is what I use for the longest time. And so we got social sweep. Is it social sweep or is it social swell?

Chandler Bolt

I think it's social sweep.

Ben Greenfield

OK. Yeah. So until I started using social sweep or until we got access to social sweep, like maybe five months ago, I would use contacts plus because that pulls in my whole world at X and then I can search by tag city. What contacts plus is missing, though, is anybody on Instagram or X or Facebook who you might not even have a connection to. But there's a couple of degrees of separation or whatever, or they already follow you. But you wouldn't know that. All then you have the ability to reach out to them. They're they're technically a warm lead if they follow you. Probably. Yes. Like, yes. Would be an example like like Tony Robbins, for example. Like I reached out to him and actually got through to his team and invited him out to one of the shows. I didn't even know that he follows me on Instagram. Yeah. And so but social swash like pulled him up as one of the people. I'm like, oh, like

Chandler Bolt

that's

Ben Greenfield

a good one. And actually, yeah, for you, what probably happened with social sweep is I know we did like it by city tag search. So you probably came up on the on the Austin if you and I have ever been connected via phone or via Instagram or what. And how does it do that? Well, what's it like? Are you manually tagging or

Chandler Bolt

it's auto

Ben Greenfield

name database? All of my contacts are typically tagged when I put them into my phone. I don't know if social sweep is smart enough to also do it by area code if they're not tagged. Right. And then I'm not sure what kind of mechanism, whatever AI back engine that they're using. Yeah. He's doing as far as like Instagram goes like it. It feels very basic, like because Instagram, obviously you're able to share a location, but

Chandler Bolt

especially LinkedIn, like LinkedIn has basically LinkedIn is the place I look if I want to find out where someone lives. Yeah. Because it's like it's right there. And so it feels like pretty basic to just connection that and say, all right, I've got Chandler's phone number. Let me go look at his LinkedIn. OK, now let me tag his phone number according to the city that it says that he lives in, lives in. And yeah,

Ben Greenfield

that's before that. I mean, like the way that I would manage relationship capital and whatever influencers, Rolodex or whatever is I had a giant spreadsheet and it was categorized by medical clinics, doctors, fitness, you know, when I did a parenting book, we did a parenting list and like a spiritual faith list. But you just basically have all your influencers on a spreadsheet that's managed. And now, like, I don't need that. Yeah, because I can pull that and also constantly update it and then import all the contacts from my phone. So that's what we use now. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it's we're

Chandler Bolt

nerding out on stuff that's like.

Ben Greenfield

Yeah, I think relationship capital, though, is so. Really is. Yeah. Agreed. So underplayed. Like like my my contacts list on my phone is probably as valuable as any bank account. But like as far as being able to look up anybody and say and call and ask for a connection to somebody or get a podcast or whatever. Like it's it's it's

Chandler Bolt

really difficult and time consuming. I'm realizing this as we you know, we've got our dream 100. We're doing our kind of starting to really I'm starting to. We'll talk about this on my show, but I'm starting to get GoPro in the media world. And so I'm realize as we're doing media tours and going to cities, I'm I'm like, man, this a lot of work just to find the people in the podcast in that specific city and connect the dots to them. So I'm starting to realize, OK, I need to find tools like this.

Ben Greenfield

Some people book like three months ahead. One hundred percent. I'm not going to like dox him, but there's one guy in town here that I'm doing a podcast with and he will literally be texting me like five hours before the podcast starts and be like, OK, so let's do it at this time. And this just the way this guy works. It's just very type B. And like I know I'll do a show. I know I'll do it that day, but I don't know if it'll be five or six or seven or decides to do it. So I'm not going to guess. Yeah, it's still in the in the comedy. OK, there'll be there'll be his needs, which is common with that whole. Yeah, like, you know, with the business marketing crew, like they're booking six months ahead. Um, Ben Greenfield Life dot com slash Bolt is where I'm going to link to all the stuff you're doing, your socials. Anything else new that you're working on that you want people to know about?

Chandler Bolt

We're building up media. So if they want to learn book stuff, self-publishing dot com, Instagram, YouTube, that content, they're building out the personal brand. I have an Instagram for the first time as of nine months ago or so. Self-publishing or that's Chandler Bowl and then YouTube. And then they go to self-publishing dot com forward slash Ben. If they want to check out book stuff, if they're thinking like we made one for you. So if they're working on a book and want our help, then that's kind of that's the place to go.

Ben Greenfield

Cool. I think a lot of people are working on a book who want some help. So that's going to be at Ben Greenfield Life dot com slash Bolt Chandler. Dude, thanks for doing this. Appreciate it, man. It's fun. Do you want free access to comprehensive show notes? My weekly roundup newsletter, cutting edge research and articles top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life and a whole lot more. Check out Ben Greenfield Life dot com. It's all there. Ben Greenfield Life dot com. See you over there. Most of you who listen, don't subscribe, like or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then huge thank you. But here's why it's important to subscribe, like and or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings and the bigger the Ben Greenfield Life show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So hit subscribe, leave a ranking, leave a review. If you got a little extra time, it means way more than you might think. Thank you so much.