[00:00:59] Podcast Sponsors
[00:04:04] Guest and Podcast Introduction
[00:07:19] Vape Pens That Don't Burn the Lungs
[00:11:30] A Theory on How to Decalcify Your Pineal Gland
[00:15:45] Ian's Current Body of Work
[00:24:18] The Lipofullerene Ian And Ben Had While Recording the Podcast
[00:26:17] What is C60?
[00:32:41] Podcast Sponsors
[00:36:02] How C60 Is Able to Effectively Treat Cancer
[00:38:05] Effects of C60 On Cognition, Performance, etc.
[00:42:40] Why and How You Should Use C60 On Pets
[00:47:59] Whether There Is Concern Over Synthetic Compounds Shutting Down Inflammation Too Much
[00:53:05] Deuterium-Depleted Water's (DDW) Future
[00:57:35] Hyperthermia Research and Ben's Story on Hyperthermia
[01:05:16] Basis of C60 Dosage
[01:08:07] Closing the Podcast
[01:09:32] End of Podcast
Ben: On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast…
Ian: I think as a whole, what we're doing is going to be the next shift in human longevity. He would put his front paws down on the ground and literally just pull himself forward until his hind legs plop down and hit the ground. It's horrifically depressing. Two weeks later and he said, “Dude, this actually works.” And I said, “Yeah, I know.” He goes, “You're a moron. Why are you not putting this out? Why are you not sharing this with people?”
Ben: That's common. I'm wondering why aren't you a billionaire, dude.
Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.
Alright, folks. Getting into C60 today. This anti-aging molecule I get asked a lot about, we're going to cover it with this brilliant guy who came to my house for this episode. Now, if you like this type of anti-aging strange fringe molecule stuff, then you need to grab my new 608-page book that takes a deep dive over 200 pages of our lone, our anti-aging and longevity. I talked about C60 in there, which we're going to talk about on today's show, but a ton more. It has everything from immune system enhancements to structural beauty and symmetry, to fat loss, muscle gain, anti-aging soup to nuts. This book is a guide to the human-machine and it's available now for pre-order at boundlessbook.com. That's boundlessbook.com. So, check that out.
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We are recording. Alright, we are recording. I can hear your voice. It's angelic. Everyone's voice is angelic when they're sitting on my kitchen table. Hey, everybody listening in, that was the rollicking, lovely, angelic voice of Ian, not Ian, Ian Mitchell, although it's spelled I-A-N.
Ian: It is.
Ian: Same spelling. Mom's an artist.
Ben: Yeah. That's effed up, dude, to be Ian.
Ian: You can't argue as a toddler.
Ben: Alright. So, to give a little context for those of you listening in, I was at Paleo f(x) and a bunch of people were telling me like, “You got to meet this brilliant researcher, inventor, like mad scientist guy named Ian Mitchell.” And eventually, I was introduced to you. A former podcast guest of mine, Dr. Barry Morguelan, the crazy Chinese energy worker guy, he interviewed, or he introduced us and we've kind of been texting back and forth. But it turns out like probably the thing that I get all the feedback from folks that you're most knowledgeable in is this stuff called C60. I've never done a podcast about C60. It's something that I get a lot of questions about, like, “What's C60? What's buckminsterfullerene carbon 60, et cetera?” And I've never, aside from a very brief stint like four years ago just kind of ordering some online and seeing what it was, used it.
Ian: The field has changed a lot.
Ben: You sent me a little bit and I want to learn more about this stuff. But I keep hearing about C60 over and over again and researching this book I'm working on about longevity, like it also came up there in terms of some really, really compelling studies on longevity and age reversal. And so, I figured, what the hell? Let's do this. So, you actually, for those of you who are wondering, yes, I am sitting here in my kitchen table. We just did a little Vasper workout.
Ian: Yeah. I have a very, very intense Vasper workout.
Ben: Yeah. What do you think about me?
Ian: My god, when they say you can pack in three hours of exercise into 21 minutes, I now comprehend why they say that.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. And so, if any of you listening haven't used this thing before, it puts full-body, or not full body but arm and leg based, almost like a Kaatsu device, like blood flow restriction arm and leg. And you felt that because I put those straps on you, then it fills them up with ice, like ice water. So, you got cold, you got compression. You're barefoot or you have socks on. So, you grounded and earthed on these metal pads, and then it's a full-body exercise machine, and you do 21 minutes of high-intensity interval training.
Ian: Yeah. It was kind of like being strapped into medieval torture device. It was like the machine from “The Princess Bride.”
Ben: It works up. It's doing something.
Ben: And you were here last night, too. We did the sauna. We had a fun dinner with my brother. And during dinner, you just kept like talking about stuff and I'm making these mental notes. I'm like, “Okay. We got to talk about that in the podcast. We got to talk about this in the podcast.” One thing that you mentioned, and we'll get into C60 guys, don't worry, but one thing that you mentioned–I think this is down when we were in the sauna. We weren't actually smoking weed or CBD or anything like that. We were chatting and vape pens came up and you talked about how you figured out how to basically make vape pens not burn the lungs or not have the nasty amounts of propylene glycol or whatever in them. What exactly did you do with the vape pens?
Ian: So, it was kind of an interesting puzzle. I had talked to a company in California about it a few years back and they were trying to arrive at a way to do the vaping that wouldn't be detrimental. Really, their focus was on CBD, and I really didn't know a tremendous amount about it at the time, but I researched a little bit and nudged them in the right direction. Basic idea was to pre-lace their vape juice, as it's termed, with compounds that would block the metabolization. When you metabolize things, sometimes it burns a lot of compounds out of your brain. So, in this case, cholinesterase precursors and things like that so that it would pre-lace all of the compounds so that it didn't cause any drop in your normal physiological levels.
Ben: Of choline?
Ian: Yeah, of choline, and which works like a champ because then there's no after-effects where people get headaches or anything like that. And then to use things like pulmonary surfactants, which is what you'd use with a premature baby because it opens up the lungs, the alveoli expand and —
Ben: To clarify, not a premature baby who's vaping.
Ian: Well, what I'm recommending here is that all premature babies vape. Right. So, the basic idea is you open up the lungs because it seemed like there was kind of an arms race going on in terms of how people would stack on–we've got 2,000 milligrams, we've got 5,000 milligrams, which is kind of pointless because if you really break it down, it doesn't matter how much you're getting in your system if you can't utilize it, right? So, it's all about bioavailability. So, if you can figure out a way to upregulate the bioavailability, then you can use less and get a higher yield, and that's exactly what that did in terms of using a pulmonary surfactant. So, you can use, say, 200 milligrams and get the equivalent input biologically from what you'd normally get from 1,000 milligrams. And so, you don't have to do as much to get the same yield.
Ben: You're saying like 200 milligrams to a CBD versus 1,000 —
Ian: Yeah, exactly.
Ben: That's a lot, 1,000 milligrams.
Ian: Yeah, it is a lot. Yeah, it's a whole lot.
Ben: Do you take CBD?
Ian: I do.
Ben: How much do you use?
Ian: Just a couple 100 milligrams.
Ian: So, in order to physiologically get the effect —
Ben: Which is still a lot [00:09:47] ______ like 10 on a lot of these bottles.
Ian: Yeah. If you look at the literature on that, you really don't get the kind of cognitive impact that you're trying to get until you cross the threshold of about 150 to 200 milligrams. And I am obviously a shrinking violet with a 250-pound frame, so I have to take a little bit more than your average.
Ben: You're a big old boy, but I have found the same thing. I was talking with Hunter McIntyre. I did a podcast with him. He's a Pro Spartan athlete and a Crossfitter and I think he said like his minimum dose is something like 200 milligrams.
Ian: Yeah, exactly. And to get the right physiological impact, because, despite the fact that our frames may be slightly different sizes, our brains are just about the same weight.
Ben: Yeah. Well, I sleep like a baby and I took 200 last night after we retired.
Ian: Yeah. Actually, that's when I get the most benefit from it is because I don't generally sleep a ton but that takes the edge off.
Ben: Yeah. How did you sleep last night out there by the chickens?
Ian: Oh, my god, fantastically well.
Ben: Chickens and roosters [00:10:48] ______.
Ian: It was great, yeah. No EMF stress. I think I could be a little woo-woo fringe for that, but my god, it felt fantastic.
Ben: It is electrically up here super clean. I catch a lot of flak for that if people raise an eyebrow at some of the research on calcium channels and EMF, but all I can tell you is I sleep and feel like a million bucks when I'm at home.
Ian: It's completely legit. I mean, if you read the latest data on it, I think as a whole, the U.S. is one of the only countries that doesn't acknowledge the fact that you can dysregulate calcium channel flow just–I mean, it's what, 600 times the input available from the EMF stress that you actually need to modulate ion flow.
Ben: Yeah. Well, speaking of controversial topics, another thing I want to talk to you about before we dive into the topic of the day, which is C60, is I think we were talking about fluoride. Fluoride came up last night at dinner. We're talking about fluoridation and not necessarily getting a little conspiracy theory about how a government is using it for mind control, which is–that's arguable, but the idea that fluoride can actually accumulate in, for example, thyroid tissue or even calcify the pineal gland. And we were chatting about how–I think I mentioned a lot of people who use plant medicine, for example. If your pineal gland is calcified, you're not going to produce much DMT. So, many people who may have pineal gland dysfunction might be using something like, whatever, ayahuasca or 5-MeO or something like that and actually not feeling it the way that they should because their pineal gland is essentially calcified. And then you said, “Oh, I have a way to descale the pineal gland.” Tell me about that.
Ian: So, it's not research I did, it was research out of Russia about 15 years ago, but I co-opted it. And when we were doing the initial formulations of one of our first round of products for animals because most mammals have the same thing and they were all drinking the same water, and hence, have the same after-effects. If you use a combination of peptides, you can actually descale that, and that's one of the things–I mean, obviously, anything that whole glandular secretions, they're kind of important because when you look at nanogram and microgram quantities having the same sort of just tremendous effects on your biology, you're listening huge responses with these very, very minimal tweaks and dosing internally. So, one of our first runs was to use of [00:13:10] ______, and that was the compound and we put it in and —
Ben: That's a peptide?
Ian: Yeah, it's a peptide. Yeah, I had this special tetrapeptide formulated, which at the time was kind of funny because the first round of having it formulated, I think the price quote I got back for one gram was 34,000 bucks, which I thought was a mistake at the time and I called the company and the woman was blight and said, “Oh, but that includes shipping.” So, I'm assuming they would have delivered it in Alexis or something.
Ben: A gram is pretty spendy to ship. But a lot of peptides, the dosage is micrograms.
Ian: It is, admittedly, yeah. And we ended up using 50 micrograms. It was kind of the dosing that we ended up going for. But we included that in the first round of products and it had a really pronounced effects on the animals. I think a great deal of the impact in the efficacy of the first round of products was because of that because we weren't just addressing some of the components that you can hit with C60 and some of the other inflammatory components that we were hitting with proteolytic enzymes. We're using those tetrapeptides to really modulate things at a secretion level for your endocrine system.
Ben: Can you buy those commercially now, like those types of strategies?
Ian: Yeah. In the past decade since I started playing with all this stuff, a lot of that's changed and you can.
Ben: What's that peptide called again?
Ian: It's Epithalone or Epitalon, depending on the site you go to.
Ben: Oh, really?
Ben: I've got that in my refrigerator back there. I've got two 20-day cycles on it based on the Khavinson protocol.
Ben: I didn't realize it had an effect on the pineal gland.
Ian: Yes, yeah.
Ben: That's very interesting. Okay. So, I've already got it, but I'm not using it.
Ian: That's a thing and everybody gives —
Ben: Twice a year, 10 to 20-day protocol. I forget what the dosage is per day. I want to say it's something like 10 mig a day and there's human trials in Russia showing virtually all-cause mortality with that approach.
Ian: Exactly. Yeah.
Ben: It's just like an insulin syringe, like subcutaneous [00:15:04] _____.
Ian: Yeah. That's why we included it for animals because one of the things, we had a patent released, I guess three, four months ago, but we showed that what we'd effectively done was created a buffering solution so that we could buffer most compounds against degradation, and for the stomach acids, and also for heat. Even with proteins, we're blocking, denaturing up to 80 degrees Celsius, which is kind of a trick. And also, it changes the levels that you actually have to utilize a lot of different compounds. So, I'll give you a link to the patent, but it really changes the amounts that you actually need to get into your system because it will take it all the way through your GI tract down into your small intestine so you can actually get access to it.
Ben: You've got a lot of patents.
Ben: I found your patent page online because I was looking up some stuff to talk about. I didn't really introduce you that comprehensively and I'm sure people are now wondering who the F you are. You're playing with the peptides and vape pens. How do you describe yourself? Are you like a researcher, a scientist?
Ian: Yeah, a research scientist. That's the current incarnation of what I'm doing. Right now, it's all biological puzzles and I have the inkling that probably in another three, four years, most of it will be looking at hardcore physics because the things that I've been working on biologically seem to be tending towards availing themselves for more change based on that frequency response, like a lot of the cancer research we've done, one of those patents was on an antimetastatic therapeutic for cancer, and we have effectively shut down the ability for cancer to metastasize. Now, it's not a cure because if you have a primary mass or some distal site that already has a mass that's vascularized to it has its own really regulated good blood flow, you can't necessarily just shut the thing down and kill it there. But I can say pretty definitively that once you start ingesting that compound, metastatic behavior stops, like cancer will not spread. And metastasis kills —
Ben: You mean once you start ingesting C60?
Ian: It's not just C60. So, the kind of the trick there, if you look at the patent, it's three basic compounds, right? So, it's a lipid, which is just a fat, and that's bound to the C60, and that allows it to pass through cell membranes. So, in effect, you're giving it the all-access pass.
Ben: And is that why C60 is often combined with olive oil like as a carrier?
Ian: Yeah, exactly, that is. In olive oil, it's a great carrier. It allows for membrane swapping on the cell surface really readily. Oleic acid swaps out with normal somatic cells really, really readily. But there are other things like coconut oil. If you want to do different things and elicit a different response to the body, not surprisingly, different oils break down in different components of the body and are metabolized to different areas of the body. So, if you want to do something that's going to modulate your liver, obviously, you'd use an MCT because that's going to go into your liver and fractionate there. And if you want to use something else, you might use EPA or DHA because those things break down and move to a different area. If you're trying to elicit a response in your brain, eicosapentaenoic acid is what you really want, right?
Ben: So, the carrier oil that C60 is delivered in would influence the site of action within the body?
Ian: Yeah. It's like using a different key for a different lock.
Ben: Okay. And I want to get more into C60, and especially C60 in cancer and how that's affecting metastasis of cancer momentarily. But back to you, you're a research scientist.
Ian: Like a lab or —
Ben: Yeah, I do. What's the job actually look like?
Ian: Yeah. I have a really great lab just north of Tulsa in the great State of Oklahoma. And so, I travel back and forth between Austin where we have the company headquartered in Tulsa.
Ben: Okay. So, your Carbon 60 company is in Austin and then your lab where you're doing all this mad scientist stuff with vape pens and descaling the pineal gland and C60 and all that jazz, that's in Oklahoma?
Ian: Yeah. That's kind of where the crazy magic happens, yeah. And mad scientist is I think the moniker that's usually thrown out because I'm constantly playing with things like a couple weeks ago, it was building a microwave cannon to see if I could knock out cancer cells in [00:19:10] _____.
Ian: Yeah, really, yeah. Well, because you can get them to pass through normal tissue, but then because of the C60 being inside the cells, you can get the C60 to oscillate and then create hyperthermic effects where you can target specific cells. And because of the way we set up the antimetastatic therapeutic, it goes in and binds to the cancer cells. Cancer is nutrient primal, so it's going to suck things out of your system fastest and its favorite food is sugars. So, the antimetastatic is bound to —
Ben: Most of the time. There's a few variations that paradoxically, this obsess a lot of people in the keto community like some forms of breast cancer. For example, eat up ketones instead of glucose.
Ian: Yeah, exactly. Well, and also, it's kind of–I have a great respect for it after having been wrangling with it for quite a few years because it metabolically pivots on the fly as it needs to to make sure it can ensure its own survival. But it's kind of a broad stroke. I think we've tested 22 different cancers and we were able to zap them all. And the basic gist was you take a LipoFullerene, which is just C60 abducted to a fat, whichever fat you're playing with, depending on where you —
Ben: That's the definition of the LipoFullerene, take a C6 molecule —
Ian: And bind it to a fat.
Ben: –and as soon as it's attached to a fat, that's called LipoFullerene?
Ian: Yeah. So, you take that and then you hook that to a sugar. And so, I did that through a different type of thermal catalysis and just used heat to bind it in a very specific way. And then once you have that–and actually, it's oddly specific because you literally have to have the right particulate size, the right thermal curve, hit all the right gradients. It's kind of crazy, and as fate would have it, it was a bit of a luck out. I nailed it, quite literally, the first shot out of the gate, which was in retrospect, knowing how easy it is to not get it now after having tried to find tons of different ways to work on it, it makes one kind of ponder the idea that literally, the first shot out of the gate got it right then as opposed to probably hundreds of other approaches and not able to get the same response. So, pretty lucky.
Ben: Is this what you went to school for [00:21:15] _____?
Ian: Yeah. I had a full-ride started out studying chemistry and then shifted over and studied jazz performance.
Ian: Yeah. Well, to me, it's effectively the same thing. It's all about resonance and it's all about combinatory relationships. And admittedly, I have a little bit of a knack for it, but chemicals and music are the same sorts of things. You have bass tones that you play with, and then you have to look at the relationships. You can force it. I mean, you can create some sort of redox reaction and you can get something to go through, but it doesn't mean it's elegant, right? And so, what I'm always trying to do is just like music. You can play two notes together and they can be discordant or they can be harmonic. But what you're really trying to do is you're trying to find an elegant solution. And so, I think that's the crux of what I really play with the most is looking at all these different compounds and saying, “Well, how should this function? What can we actually do with this? What kind of response can we elicit that's going to be sort of magical?” It's more art than science. I mean, when you really start to break it down and you have the basics, it's just like music. You have to work at getting your chops up, you make sure that you technically have the capacity to do that sort of exercise.
But then beyond that, it's really a matter of, how can I make this move in an artful way? This is the end goal. I'm trying to do something here and I want to get a certain response. How do I do that in a beautiful fashion that's elegant? Because nature truly is nothing if not elegant and efficient. It's kind of brutal sometimes, especially if you look at cancer, it's a really very, very brutal function, but it wastes no steps. On an individual basis, it's kind of tragic, but if you look at it–my dad was an anthropology professor. And if you look at kind of the overarching impact on a society, it's actually really beneficial because it's thinning out the herd for people who are marginalized in giving those same resources and reallocating them to a younger [00:23:15] _____.
Ben: From a pure evolutionary standpoint, that's the cancer is doing?
Ian: Yeah. And society has changed a lot. I mean, we're no longer just tribal folks, so I mean obviously, we're cooking in a kitchen here as opposed to outside over a fire. So, things have changed and it's not as relevant as it once was, but just same sort of thing applies to pathogens and the discovery of antibiotics. I think as a whole, what we're doing with C60 is going to be the next shift in human longevity after doing a decade of work on this.
Ben: Yeah. I want to talk about that. Do you do still make music? Did you actually have a career as a jazz musician?
Ian: I did. I did have a career as a jazz musician for quite a while. Yeah, I still practice.
Ben: Did you play the trumpet?
Ian: No, sax, jazz.
Ian: Yeah. Jazz, saxophone, yeah.
Ben: Nice. You and Bill Clinton.
Ian: Yes. Slightly different levels, but yes.
Ben: I just had to name the one famous saxophone player.
Ian: Yeah. Meaning that, yeah, that Bill Clinton was obviously —
Ben: And the girl from The Simpsons, yeah. Okay. So, hand me that bottle that you have over there. So, what did you just do before we start recording? Tell me what you did and what this stuff is I'm holding, because I want to try whatever you just did with the coffee and the–and so what is this bottle?
Ian: Okay. So, that is revived. It's what I think is the best product that we put out.
Ben: So, it's LipoFullerene and you just did a very good job defining that. So, we've got C60 in here. And was it olive oil?
Ian: Yeah, it's in an olive oil.
Ben: Okay. And then serratiopeptidase.
Ian: Yeah, which is serrapeptase, serratiopeptidase.
Ben: Okay. That's a lot of times found in like joint sport compounds?
Ian: Yeah, it is. And the basic idea is that was actually a drug in Japan for quite a few years and then they downregulated it to a supplement because they found that they couldn't get enough of it to be bioavailable. And what I was alluding to in our patent that was just released is we were able to very definitively show that, yeah, it works like a champ if you can actually deliver it to the body and get it able to be used where it needs to.
Ben: Okay. And then carnosine, which I know helps deliver fatty acids into the cell. So, will you put that in there?
Ian: Now, actually, that was really for reparative, restorative stuff after the fact. Most of the things in there have a couple of effects. It's not just a one-off.
Ben: Okay. And then CoQ10?
Ian: Yeah, and then CoQ10 because it's going to upregulate a lot of cell function.
Ben: Alright. So, how did you do this? I have my tablespoon here.
Ian: Okay. So, the way I do it is I shake it up, make sure everything's back since suspension, then I —
Ben: Shake, shake, shake.
Ian: –put it in the handy spoon there.
Ben: Okay. And do I put this on the coffee?
Ian: No. Actually —
Ben: I'm going to use the coffee as like the chaser?
Ian: Yeah, exactly. Put a little coffee. Before you put it in your mouth, put a little coffee in your mouth.
Ben: Okay. Hold on.
Ian: And this is, for those of you at home plugging along.
Ben: Oh, that's Kion Coffee, folks. Just so you know. Okay, that was in my mouth.
Ian: So, then take a little swig of that.
Ian: Alright, swish it around, put another little bit of coffee in your mouth, and chase it down.
Ben: I'll have to leave it in my mouth like a [00:26:12] ______?
Ian: Not at all.
Ben: Alright. So, it says two–I take two?
Ben: So, it's two tablespoons, okay. So, as I'm doing this, the more the merrier, tell me, cheers, tell me what C60 is.
Ian: Okay. So, C60 buckminsterfullerene, buckyballs, literally, it's a soccer ball in shape made of carbon atoms. So, it's an allotrope, which just means another form of carbon, and it was discovered in 1985. The three guys who discovered it all got Nobel Prizes for it because it was the first new form of carbon in a couple hundred years. And at the time, because they had found this, they were actually looking for things in outer space, and they saw a signature that they couldn't recognize. And they finally figured out that it was actually 60 carbon atoms grouped, and so they brought it to a researcher who was a mathematician and said, “What is the shape of this?” And he said, “It's a football.”
And so, it is. Literally, it's a soccer ball, it's a truncated icosahedron, so made out of carbon atoms. And it's got a bunch of different properties because of that configuration. It's very stable, it's very, very strong. And a lot of research was done early on if there was kind of a glut of people trying to jump on the bandwagon and do the research, but due to a couple of oddball reports that came out, people didn't think it was going to be very beneficial biologically, so it really crunched everything down for a couple of decades, and the research didn't really move forward.
And then in 2012, a report was released. I'm sure you've seen this. It was Fathi Moussa was the fella in France, and they had done a study on the effect. They were doing earlier an LD50, which is a lethal dosing 50. You're trying to figure out what kills the median percentage of the population when you introduce a new compound to an animal. And so, in this case, they gave it to rats, and the rats lived 90% longer on average. And they actually sacrificed the last rat —
Ben: Ninety percent.
Ian: Ninety percent longer.
Ian: Yeah. And so, they found that the control group died, then they had an olive oil experimental group. It died. And then the C60 group died. But yeah, 90% extension in lifespan on average. And it had a bunch of other oddball properties too, like normally when you're in your lab and you're knocking out your lab rats or mice, you do it with carbon tetrachloride and the rats could handle more than twice the normal amount of carbon tetrachloride because it buffers hepatically and renally. So, your kidney and your livers are buffered from oxidative stress and from toxins. If somebody went to the hospital for an acute toxic threat, they give them activated charcoal, because it binds the toxins and it takes it out of their system.
Well, the same things apply here because of the carbon, but at a much more enhanced volume because of the spherical configuration on the surface. So, you just have this maximal binding volume for toxins, so it binds the toxins and carries them out of your system. And oddly enough, it also does a similar function with radiation. So, you end up with a huge protection against —
Ian: Yeah, radiation.
Ben: So, you could use something like this, for example, for airline travel?
Ben: When you're getting exposed to the x-rays and radiation, et cetera?
Ben: Interesting. Okay. So, C60 is not something that the body makes itself. This is a molecule that is synthesized in a lab as buckminsterfullerene or as Carbon 60 bound to an oil and then delivered via supplemental form as LipoFullerene.
Ian: Yeah, exactly. Now, typically, it's found in nature. It's been around since the Big Bang. So, it's 13.8 billion years old, but it only occurs at the intersection of a couple of different factors of vacuum, lightning strikes. Occasionally, you can get lightning strikes without a vacuum, but generally, when we make it in our lab, we have a chamber and will depressurize it so we put a real high vacuum on it and then introduce helium so it's got an inert atmosphere. And then you take two carbon graphite rods and blast them together, usually driven by an arc welder, and the resulting explosion, you sieve it out and you get about 3% to 7% C60 out of all this [00:30:12] _____. It's very cool. And the equipment looks like something that should be in back to the future. It kind of looks like your —
Ben: That's pretty sick.
Ian: Yeah. You're driving something that's just —
Ben: Everybody makes it. Because I started to look around like there are–it's kind of like CBD. There's a lot of C60 websites like C60–
Ian: Oh yeah, they're a bunch now.
Ben: –C60 health and C60 this and that. So, are all these labs spread across the country or across the world pretty much doing the same thing, making the same C60?
Ian: No, they're not, actually, at least not through the same method. Now, they're making C60, but I can tell you experimentally, because I've tested a lot of it from different laboratories, it's kind of peculiar in that. Some of the methods like the plasma arc method is one way. The carbon arcs that we're using is one way. There's a flame synthesis method and they all have their pros and cons. The plasma arc method, the color is different. And you can attribute that to particulate size or you can attribute it to different configurations on the surface. It reacts differently, biologically, and I'm not sure–if you run–we have an HPLC in the lab and when you run us back on it, it pops up as, “Hey, it's C60.” But I can tell you experientially, it reacts differently in your body. And so, I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, but I can tell you that there's definitively a difference.
Ian: Not to say that it gets any better or worse effect, it just you feel different. My personal favorite flavor of it is from a carbon arc. We make some but we buy a lot from different labs all over the world. Some in the States, some in Europe. The carbon arc variety seems to function the most. And also, like in Fathi Moussa's study, that's what they did. They bought it from a group out of the states. We did a similar–
Ben: This was the rodent study when it was–
Ben: –90% longer?
Ian: Yeah. We did a similar thing. I was actually looking for inflammatory response, but we used P53 knockout rats, and those are the ones that have their tumor suppressor —
Ben: Right, [00:32:15] ______ rats.
Ian: Yeah. Those are the very, unfortunately, aesthetically challenged because they have lumps all over their body, very screwed rats that idiopathically just present with spontaneous formations of cancers. And ours, oddly enough, didn't do that, and they live 93% longer.
Ben: So, these were rodents who are supposed to get cancer, you give them C60 and they get cancer?
Ian: Yeah. That's exactly right.
Ben: Hey, I want to interrupt today's show. My guest and I, Ian, or Ian I should say, we sauna'd the night before we recorded this podcast. We sweat it out and we chopped it up good in my sauna. Basically, what I do in my sauna is I'll often do yoga, swing kettlebells, I'll do blood flow restriction training, get a good sweat on, and then I'll visit with folks in there. Why? Because it's huge. It's a sanctuary sauna made by Clearlight. So, it's got all the stuff that Clearlight features in all their saunas, EMF and ELF shielding, their lifetime warranty, they've got all sorts of little upgrades you can throw in there like chromotherapy. It can pipe in music via their built-in speakers. This thing is like the Cadillac of infrared saunas.
So, you get all the benefits of the deep, deep sweat from infrared, the same heat shock proteins and longevity benefits you get from a dry sauna. It's the best of both worlds. Get super-hot. I usually will turn it on about 30 minutes before I go in, and I can get that thing up to 158 degrees pretty quickly. So, if you want to sweat like I do and you want to get all the other, basically, perks that Clearlight throws into their sauna systems that nobody else is doing, you go to healwithheat.com and use code BENGREENFIELD. Again, the model I have is the Sanctuary from Clearlight, but you can get any other saunas. They're all fantastic. You go to healwithheat.com, use code BENGREENFIELD. It gives you 500 bucks off the regular price of each sauna and they throw in a free gift with every purchase. So, healwithheat.com and use code BENGREENFIELD.
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What's going on there? What exactly is happening?
Ian: Well, so cancer, in order to proliferate, you've got to have a dysregulation in the energy level intracellularly, specifically in the mitochondria. You've got to dysregulate the energy level. You can't kill the thing but you have to suppress its energy. And you also have to use a type of paracrine signaling. And Johns Hopkins in 2017 released a paper where they had noted that they had identified Il-6 and Il-8 as the paracrine signaling cytokines that cancer was using to promote metastasis. And luckily, we had already been filed for a couple of years for our patent because we had seen the same thing in my lab, and it was really good to have that backed up because cancer coops your body's own immune system and uses it to signal spreading. So, if you crush the cytokine levels and really precipitously make those things fall, then there's no signaling mechanism to spread, which is why any metastatic does a really good job.
The other function, as I alluded to earlier, was if you downregulate the mitochondrial function enough and the energy level goes low enough, your ETC drops, you don't get enough ATP, then cancer can proliferate. Can't kill you, but it has to wound you effectively. But if you keep the levels upregulated, it doesn't allow it to spread. And so, we've done testing and our boost was roughly 18% on the low-end to 58% on the high-end of an uptick in ATP. And that was just with–actually, that was with the serum that you just took. Now, the other serums —
Ben: This stuff I just took called Revive.
Ian: Yeah. That's the one.
Ian: Yeah. So, that was just a mild uptick in comparison to the rates that we've been able to get since then. It's constantly growing and changing. We're trying to research. I mean, we really, as a whole C360 Health, we effectively think of ourselves as a research company. We have products that support it, but really, it's all research-based.
Ben: Okay. So, let's say I wanted to use something like this as an anti-cancer strategy or a life extension strategy. Would I notice anything from what I just did, like these couple tablespoons with a coffee, is there an effect, acute effect on cognition, on exercise performance, anything like that?
Ian: Not after two tablespoons. It's going to have to build up. You're going to have to reach a certain degree of homeostasis in your body. If your cells have enough of that, yeah, you'll notice a pronounced effect. Now, just to be clear, I would not use that as a cancer prevention strategy. As a prevention strategy or any metastatic agent, it's great as a preventative. And we've actually —
Ben: What's your antimetastatic agent? Is it a different one than that?
Ian: It is different, yeah, and it's not —
Ben: What's on that?
Ian: It's similar configuration but it has sugars in it.
Ian: And the sugars, cancers are attracted to the sugars. They pull it in. So, they actually —
Ben: It's like a Trojan Horse?
Ian: It's exactly what it is. We jokingly call it the cupcake of doom.
Ben: What's that stuff called?
Ian: We actually just call it anti-M, but it's not —
Ben: That's on your website, too?
Ian: No, it's not. It's not on market. We're actually thinking about putting that out as a supplement in the next couple of months.
Ian: Yeah. Which will be hopefully profound and make it [00:39:21] ______.
Ben: A lot of people listening in the show were interested in anti-cancer type of compounds. That's very interesting.
Ian: Well, there are a lot of people who do it prophylactically for that reason right now, even before it's out and about on the market.
Ben: What else would I notice from taking this stuff?
Ian: Cognitively, there is a shift. It takes a few weeks, but what happens is you start pumping out new neurons.
Ian: Yeah. At a rate of about two to three to one relative to NGF-1, so neural growth factor-1. It kicks out new neurons a lot more rapidly. And also, the morphology of the neurons is kind of odd in that. Normally, you've got your [00:39:57] ______ at the center and then you have your arm spanning out to the end of the axon, and they morphologically shift so that that span is two to three times larger. So, you get the proliferation rate of 2, 3x, and then the actual span to the end of the axon.
Ben: You've actually looked at this?
Ian: Yeah. There's some really great data on it coming out of Japan, I think. I'll send you some links on it.
Ben: Holy cow.
Ian: I know. When you start getting into this–that's why I said earlier that I think this is really the thing that's going to push our lifespans forward because it's not a steady curve. It doesn't go up just at one incline. You end up with these points of inflection and the term anthropologically is punctuated equilibrium. So, you have points where it spikes up and then it plateaus off, which is the introduction of antibiotics, good sanitation, things like that. They make our lifespan collectively jump up. My money is on this pony.
Ben: More than like, let's say, NAD or telomerase activator or like TAM-818 or any of these sexy anti-aging compounds people are talking about?
Ian: Yeah. TAM-818, I haven't played with personally. I think that's Bill Andrews thing.
Ben: Yeah. So, you are a scientist?
Ian: Yeah. He seems to be a very sharp guy and I'm sure —
Ben: He is. I interviewed him.
Ian: Yeah. And I'm sure that there's a lot of validity to that. And I don't think it's an either/or really. My guess would be that it's more of a combinatorial fact, because when we're trying to elicit some sort of different response biologically, you can't just address it with chemicals. You can't just address it with naturopathic stuff. You've got to look at the totality of the person. You go, “Okay. So, we're physical, chemical, biochemical, magnetic, electromagnetic,” and you have to address all those different things. So, I don't think it's going to be a one-shot solution.
Ben: Right. That's why anti-aging approach, just like an Alzheimer's approach or a cancer approach is always multimodal.
Ian: Yeah, exactly. And so, for me personally, I do a baseline of C60, but then I do PRP, stem cells, other compounds, a lot of NAD, a lot of NMN. I haven't actually used NR, but I'm sure at some point I probably will.
Ben: I'm not convinced that if you're using NAD and NMN, you need to.
Ian: Yeah. And I actually would agree. If I thought I really needed it, I'd be doing it right now, but I have a pretty consistent regimen where I do NMN and NAD.
Ben: And for an anti-aging stack like that, you would definitely throw C60 into the mix —
Ian: One hundred percent.
Ben: –what was something like Epitalon?
Ian: Yeah, 100%, yeah. I mean, that's really a lot of this stems from. That's what I was trying to do at the very beginning, a decade ago, it was closing in on a decade, it's a little over eight years ago was trying to figure out how to shunt biological aging. And then after you do that, you start looking at it and you go, “Well, if I'm going to try and increase the health of an organism, what better way to do that than to literally roll the clock back.”
Ben: Yeah. You told me last night I should give it to my dogs.
Ian: One hundred percent.
Ben: And then I went to your website and you have a whole pet section of the website. What's going on with dogs?
Ian: Well, biologically, we're all mammals, so this pretty much affects everything with fur. So, if you've got fur or care about something that has fur —
Ben: I don't have much fur.
Ian: Yeah. Well, use C60. You've got a good head of hair there though.
Ben: I do.
Ian: Yeah. So, with my dogs, the first thing I tested on myself and my partner at the company, he's done K9 rescue for better part of 30 years now, and we both ticket ourselves before we gave it to our dogs, but then as soon as we knew that it was safe, we gave it to our dogs. Both of our dogs, at the time, he had a Greyhound who had been hit by a car and he rescues Greyhounds, and it made a tremendous difference in the dog's mobility. And with my dog, he was a Great Pyrenees —
Ben: That was the stuff with the serratiopeptidase in it?
Ian: Yeah, exactly.
Ian: Yeah. And that's one of the real sweet spots is, not to digress, but the basic idea was C60 drops the inflammatory response, but you still have some hotspots in your joints. If you get the serrapeptase in there, it will find its way to those spots, and actually, it's a derivative from silkworms. Yeah, it's a silkworm enzyme. And they use it to break down cocoons —
Ben: I know that's [00:43:59] ______. I don't think I've talked about this before on the podcast, but I'm putting it into a new joint support formula that I'm working on for Kion, like serrapeptidase or a form of that is one ingredient and the capsule are rolling out.
Ian: It's great stuff.
Ben: It's a powerful stuff.
Ian: It really is. And yeah, I mean, that's why silkworms use it because they want to come out. And so, when you have those hotspots left even after you drop the cytokine levels and your inflammatory responses go down, the serrapeptase finds its way to that, and then actually, eats the scar tissue and breaks it down and moves into your limp. So, with this compound, you're structurally remodeling the inside of your joints every time you take it. So, it goes in and knocks out a little bit, a little bit, a little bit so that you're left with actually less structural media there to get inflamed every time you move.
Ben: And so, you just give like a tablespoon to your dog, or your cat, or your pet a morning?
Ian: Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, cats a lot less, like a half a teaspoon. My dogs, the one who was a Great Pyrenees Golden Retriever mix, he was structurally not as sound as you would hope a dog would be just because of breeding, but it made a huge difference. He had gotten to the point where he would try and hop up on the bed with me and he had to put his front paws up on the bed and pull himself up, and then when he wanted to get down, he would put his front paws down on the ground and literally just pull himself forward until his hind legs plopped down and hit the ground. It was horrifically depressing.
So, then after I started giving him the C60, which was the Companion 60 is what we called it when it actually went to market, which was a couple years after, I guess about three or four years after I'd started giving it to him. It was great. Within two weeks, he was running and jumping up on the bed and then turning around, jumping off the bed. And it, I would say, definitively bought, I don't know, two or three years of time, which for me was great.
Ben: You've got this thing called a hair growth serum. What's that do?
Ian: So, hair is not something your body preferentially really worries about all that much. It is more concerned with survival and your cells functioning and neural function and things like that, and cardiac function. But follicular cells if you trigger them from a telogen resting phase or a catagen phase back into an antigen growth cycle, they will do what they do. And really, you can look at dihydrotestosterone conversion rates, but my take was a little different. I figured if you could upregulate mitochondrial function inside follicular cells, they would do what they want to do, which is just pump out hair, and sure enough, that is actually how that works.
Ben: And you take it orally or actually topically?
Ian: No, topically.
Ian: Yeah. It's just transdermal.
Ian: Very simple. Yeah. And it was actually that came about because my daughter walked in one day and said, “Dad, your hairline's receding,” and I thought very narcissistically, “Well, that's not happening.” So, I rolled out to the lab and whipped it up. Literally, I left it on a shelf. I just regrew my hair and didn't think about it and left it on a shelf for three years. And I was talking to a friend of mine, and I said the same thing and he was very balding at the time and he said, “Wait, wait, wait. Roll that back. You did a what?” And I said, “Yeah. I made this thing and regrew my hair and dropped the hairline.” He said, “Do you still have them?” I said, “Yeah, sure.” And he said, “Send it to me.” So, I sent it to him and he started regrowing his hair, and he texted me in two weeks later and said, “Dude, this actually works.” And I said, “Yeah, I know.” He goes, “You're a moron. Why are you not putting this out? Why are you not sharing this with people?
Ben: That's common. I'm wondering why aren't you a billionaire, dude.
Ian: Sadly, it's —
Ben: Maybe you are. You got a sick Ford Mustang out there in the driveway that my wife just backed into with a dodge RAM.
Ian: Hence, the name RAM.
Ben: You're just dead sitting on Mustang, sorry about that.
Ian: No worries, it's all good. Yeah, that's the RAM. It really lived up to the name. It's never really actually been a focus. I mean, for better or worse, I love helping people, I love solving puzzles. Really, that's what drives me. I think if I were probably wedged into a different arena, maybe I would focus on that, but it really isn't. It's not what does it for me.
Ben: Okay. So, I have a question for you. This stuff's supposed to be, from what I understand, a pretty potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. Are you concerned at all about some of the research they've done on like synthetic vitamin C and vitamin E, like blunting the hormetic response to exercise? Or would we be concerned with like synthetically shutting down inflammation too much?
Ian: Yeah. I am actually concerned with that. Personally, I take it in a way that I elicit a hormesis, a hormetic response. I try and not do it completely regularly. I cycle it a bit. As a whole, it's proving out to be a selective antioxidant though, which is different, kind of like a molecular hydrogen, and there's a ton of work on that.
Ben: Right, which they've shown as a selective antioxidant. It's one of the few antioxidants that doesn't blunt the hormetic response to exercise.
Ian: Exactly. And it's all the data that I've been both generating and reading with C60. It really appears to be similarly selective antioxidant, which is kind of nifty, but for me, the jury is still out until I've got something definitive that shows that. I think at this point, the science, just because there's not enough of us researching it, I don't think the science is quite there. So, that said, I take it one day, skip a day, two days, skip a day, five days, skip a day. And also, the other thing that's different is we did clinical testing with animals and we came up with what was safe and 1X, rather 5X, 10, 20. And so, we put dosages that are normal. I do tremendously large doses, but I was going for a different response.
Ben: I do. That was just about everything.
Ben: I'll tell you a funny story in a second, but that's probably prudent. I would imagine–because you sent me a couple of bottles. I'll probably start to use that most when I travel because that's what I'm exposed, like we were talking about the most solar radiation, the most inflammation, no stress. I mean, you've been out here in my peaceful oasis where I don't need a lot of anti-inflammation when I'm out here, but this stuff could come in handy for travel, I'm sure.
Ian: But you need to balance it out because of the environment here. You might want to actually take something that is a stressor. I need to drink more is what you're saying? Yeah, I could whip something up to just put a little bit more load on you metabolically.
Ben: Yeah. I'm sure you could. Funny story though, speaking of putting a load on me metabolically, you also sent me this unlabeled blue bottle.
Ian: I did.
Ben: I texted you. This was like a week ago and I'm like, “What's this shit?” It tells neuroplastic juice. It's got like NAD, and peptides, and C60, and caprylic acid in it. I was like, “Hell, yeah.” I just kind of held the bottle up to my mouth and took a swig and probably did that a couple more times. I would imagine, I probably got about four tablespoons into my system now.
Ian: That's a little bit much.
Ben: Alright. I'm like, “Alright, let's see what this shit does.” And I sat down. I was supposed to record a podcast with somebody. So, I sat. I did this right before I have my morning smoothie. I started sipping my smoothie, replying to emails. It was like 15 minutes, T minus 15 to a podcast I was supposed to record.
Ian: T minus 15 is probably really applicable to this story, I'm guessing.
Ben: My stomach goes —
Ian: Oh yeah, there we go.
Ben: So, I barely made–I sprinted up those stairs right there. I barely made it to the bathroom, yanked down my pants and just like sprayed just all over, and I sat on that toilet for like a half-hour. Thank you for saving me from needing to do my coffee enema that day. And I remember, I texted you from the toilet and I'm like —
Ian: That makes the poison, my friend.
Ben: –“Dude, the F is in this stuff.” And I think it was the caprylic acid, even though I've done a lot of MCT, whatever you're using.
Ian: It enhances —
Ben: Kudos, because whatever caprylic acid form you're using is working, but yeah, it was like the intense diaper pants phenomenon.
Ian: Yeah. C60 has a tendency to potentiate the effects of things that you normally have broken down and —
Ben: Noted, noted. Yeah.
Ian: Yes, it does its job, yeah. You have to build up to it really slowly because I've been building upon that same stuff for quite a while. And if you go over the threshold, there is definitely —
Ben: I took a tablespoon yesterday. I actually measured and used the tablespoon and I felt fine.
Ben: What is that stuff? Is that also something you sell on your side or is that like a –?
Ian: It's an energy serum that we're about to —
Ben: [00:52:32] _____ on me?
Ian: No. It's an energy serum that we're about to start selling.
Ian: We're doing some testing with it very shortly with the university because we're trying to–when I was alluding to the idea of, hey, we can upregulate ATP, we really upregulate ATP. You get a very pronounced spike.
Ben: What peptides are on it?
Ian: I won't disclose that, [00:52:53] _____ you had.
Ben: Alright. So, speaking of being Mr. Mysterious, I know you're up to a lot of other stuff in here.
Ian: Is it the cape I'm wearing?
Ben: And your secret Batman lab. For example, you and I have chatted back and forth a little bit about deuterium-depleted water. At the time that this podcast that you all are listening to right now is released, I probably will have released my podcast I just record with Dr. Thomas Cowan in which we discussed his feelings about the impact of DDW on cancer and how effective it could be for cancer prevention or cancer therapy. This idea of water that's been depleted of this heavy isotope of deuterium, which would normally displace hydrogen in the body. You keep that from happening and you've actually got a very cool form of water that could be quite therapeutic. And right now, it's expensive to get. You got to buy it for $10 to $12 a bottle from Romania or Ukraine.
Ian: Yeah. There are only three places in the world that actually make it.
Ben: Yeah. And I also interviewed water researcher Robert Slovak, and he talked about DDW and DDW generators and this whole idea behind DDW, and then you said that you were looking at the DDW as well.
Ian: Yeah. I'm trying to kind of keep up with all the things that might be adjunct therapeutics that really make an impact. DDW is brilliant in my opinion. I think in addition to the antimetastatic formula for C60, I think the introduction of DDW will make a huge and pronounced impact. It's doing similar functions because it changes the way your mitochondria are actually able to process. In the synthesis process when you're going through the electron transport chain, you actually have on your mitochondria pieces that are moving at about 9,000 RPMs, and deuterium breaks that. It really impacts it negatively. Now, when you're a baby or a teenager, you actually want deuterium in your system because it promotes rapid growth, but when you're older, it starts to break down your mitochondrial function. And if you eliminate it, because there's–right now, we're probably exposed to 10 to 15 parts per million more than you would have been 10,000 years ago.
Ben: From pesticides, herbicides, radiation, industrialization, et cetera?
Ian: Yeah, exactly. Everything kind of combining. It's not the best thing for us biologically. But because of that, similar to C60, if we lived in a perfect environment, if we all had an environment that was really nice and pristine, it wouldn't really be a thing that you needed that much. But to combat all the environmental stresses and give your body an edge, yeah, DDW I think is brilliant. I think guys at the Deuterium-Depleted Water Center in L.A., I think the work that they're doing is tremendous. They also had a project for KetoPet Sanctuary.
Ben: What's their place called in L.A.?
Ian: Deuterium-Depleted Center, I believe.
Ben: Okay. I'm going to L.A. next week. I think I might be supposed to be going into that. I'm not for sure because a lot of times, I just wake up and get on whatever airplane I'm supposed to get on based on what my calendar says. But I think I'm going down there to do an interview with those guys.
Ian: Yeah. They're great, actually. It's Que Collins and Laszlo Boros.
Ben: Yeah. Okay.
Ian: Yeah. I would say that well worth the time to talk to them. I had a lot of questions.
Ben: Have you tested your deuterium levels?
Ian: I have not. With their determinator? Yeah.
Ian: I just looked at it. It's the Center for Deuterium-Depletion, and I would thoroughly recommend that if everybody has the capacity to do it, call those guys, talk to them, get their determinator test.
Ben: I'll link to that. By the way, the shownotes for those of you listening in, I'll link to Ian's website, all these different C60 molecules and DDW and the other stuff we talked about if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/c60podcast. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/c60podcast. So, you think DDW is legit?
Ian: I think it's completely legit, yeah. I would recommend that people do it, especially people with cancer. Just for the average person, I think there's going to be a tremendous impact. When people see things that actually modulate their mitochondrial function, it makes a huge difference. I always talk about kind of the analogy with deuterium. If you were playing tennis and the tennis ball cannon is launching tennis balls at you and then suddenly one of them is filled with lead, your return on the ball filled with lead is going to be very different, and then your return on the tennis ball. And intramitochondrially, that's what happens.
Ben: It's a good analogy.
Ian: Yeah. You're spending 9,000 RPMs and then you drop something and it's twice the weight of what you're intended to be using, and it mechanically breaks things.
Ben: [00:57:31] ______ play baseball at the bowling ball.
Ian: Exactly, yeah.
Ben: Interesting. What else are you researching that you think is kind of hot or at least interesting to you?
Ian: Hyperthermia, actually. That's it.
Ben: No kidding?
Ian: Yeah. I think hyperthermia is going to be really profound for people with cancer.
Ben: I didn't tell you my story about hyperthermia?
Ian: No. Shoot.
Ben: Okay. So, I went to the Swiss Alps and I led a two-week detox retreat there at a place called The Swiss Mountain Clinic, where they use all European biological medicine treatments, like liver electrodes that they attach on the front and the backside of the liver to induce an electrical current to improve hepatic function. They treat mold, mycotoxin, Lyme. They treat cancer. They have all sorts of different injections. They have all these different machines from pulsed electromagnetic field therapy to blood ozonators to hyperthermia.
I was sitting in the doctor's office there waiting for my consult, because every day during these two weeks, you're meeting with physicians, trying out protocols, et cetera. And I looked up at her shelf and she had a book there called “Hyperthermic Treatment for Cancer.” So, I started thumbing through the book. I've dicked around a little bit with the use of the sauna for heat shock proteins, and I have this biomat that I sleep on for my naps upstairs, and a lot of Korean literature came from that, kind of alluding to the beneficial effects of hyperthermia on killing cancer. And this physician's desk manual had a ton of very compelling research on it I'd never seen before on hyperthermic treatments for cancer.
And I asked her about the treatments they do there and they have this full-on hyperthermic unit. I don't have cancer, but I told her that I was very curious, I was very interested in just seeing what this thing felt like. So, she scheduled a time for me, and this was during the heat wave. This was four months ago, during the heat wave in Europe. This was 107 degrees in the Swiss Alps. And the way the protocol goes is first, you get on a bicycle in a non-air-conditioned little gym they have next to the hyperthermic facility, and you're supposed to get your heart rate up and get your body temperature up to prime the pump.
Ian: So, you're doing CrossFit?
Ian: Standard CrossFit box.
Ben: You know me. You just saw me on the Vasper. I'm go big or go home.
Ian: Yeah. That was pretty apparent.
Ben: I hopped on that bike and just jammed for 30 minutes like eyeballs popping out my socket. So, I'm like, “If I'm going to get hot, I'm going to get hot.” So, I'm dripping with sweat by the time I get off that thing. And then I called the nurse and I'm like, “God, I got my 30 minutes.” And so, she says, “Follow me,” and she walks me into this room where there's like this pod that essentially, you put your whole body into and just your head is sticking out. And she put a rectal probe, like a rectal thermometer in, and apparently for cancer, you want to get up to like 41 to 43 degrees, I'm going to say this in Celsius because that's what we were talking about at the time and that's what all the equipment was showing in the room. So, she put the probe in, and already from being on the bike, I think, homeostatically we're at, what, 35, something like that.
Ian: Yeah. And so, you're taking it up to about 107, for those of us who are on Fahrenheit terms?
Ben: Yeah. You're inducing a fever. So, that was like 38 from doing the bike ride. And so, you lay there. You get inside this thing and it is like the worst most claustrophobic sauna. You can't move your arms, can't move your legs, just your heads sticking out because it'd kill your brain cells if your head was in there. And you just lay there, and there's like a little DVD player on the pod that would theoretically allow you to maybe watch a movie or [01:01:22] ______ that would be entertaining.
Ian: I'm sure because that's the environment you want to be in when you chill out [01:01:25] _____.
Ben: And I told the nurse. I'm like, “Can I [01:01:26] ______?” She's like, “No, it's broken.” “Oh, my gosh, shit.” So, I'm laying there and I'm watching the temperature climb and climb. It hits about 39 and my heart rate's already–it feels like I'm doing a high-intensity interval training session on an Aerodyne bike or something. And so, the nurse —
Ian: More of a [01:01:44] ______ than hit.
Ben: The nurse has like the little flexible plastic straw with a little glass bottle and she just keeps coming over to me. I turned my head, sipped that water, turned my head back because I can literally feel myself just filling and filling with a pool of my own sweat with my body inside this hyperthermic chamber. And then when I hit about 39 and a half, she just starts basically putting ice towel after ice towel after ice towel on my head to keep my brain from suffering the effects of that fever because you got to keep the head cool.
And, I started counting to 20 over and over and over again just to deal with the extreme discomfort, heat, pain, and high heart rate from that thing. I got up to 41 and a half degrees and I kicked the–I didn't kick the can, basically, I backed out. This was two and a half hours in and I'm like, “I'm good, I'm good,” because I literally could–I'm a masochist.
Ian: Did she roll in with a turkey baster?
Ben: No. Damn it. And then I'm like, “Oh, I need to go jump in like a cold shower,” because they're up in the Swiss Alps and the water does get pretty cold there. She's like, “No, no shower.”
Ian: Yeah. That would be a bad idea.
Ben: Lay in bed for four hours with this induced fever, sweating my ass off, passing in and out of consciousness while laying on my bed, continuing to just like saturate the bed with sweat. And the thought going through my head as I lay there was, basically, it was twofold, A, I'm never going to do that again, B, if I had cancer, I actually probably would be highly motivated enough to do that. But for me do that again, I would have to have cancer and just be imagining my cancer cells dying as I did the hyperthermic treatment.
Ian: Yeah. See that whole-body hyperthermia, that's intense.
Ben: It was intense.
Ian: I am a fan of localized hyperthermia of where you're going to introduce.
Ben: So, when you said hyperthermia, what are you thinking of?
Ian: I'm thinking of using something like RF or something like that to induce hyperthermia in a localized environment, like if you have liver tumors or something like that, go in and use a 100-megahertz ultrasound and [01:03:50] ______.
Ben: That's actually one of the machines they're using. It was called Indaba treatment for the liver.
Ian: I've read a lot of literature lately and they seem to be really profound. And I do think–I mean, if you just think through the process of what do I need to do to get this out in a specific area, in my case, assuming you know how you can stop metastatic spread, then you want to be able to treat it in that one spot in the localized hyperthermia. Again, it seems like a great approach.
Ben: Okay. Got it.
Ian: Hit it from all fronts.
Ben: Yeah. So, we got vape pens that do not harm the lungs.
Ben: By the way, are those available?
Ian: No, they are not. That was more like a–
Ben: It should be. It's a good idea. Using Epitalon to descale the pineal gland.
Ben: C60 combined with some of these things like olive oil, serrapeptidase, CoQ10, some of the cool formulations you're working on, and the hair growth serum.
Ben: You've got deuterium-depleted water, localized hyperthermia, a lot of cool things.
Ian: Yeah. A whole lot of cool things.
Ben: Anything else that's interesting that you're up to?
Ian: Yeah. There's a whole host of things that I probably really ought not talk about yet, but yeah, we're–
Ben: You're safe. No one can find you here.
Ian: Yeah. I figured of the internet, it's the most anonymity you can afford a person live broadcasting on the internet. No, that's probably enough.
Ben: Okay. Alright, gotcha. So, with C60, just a few more logistical questions, dosage is going to vary based on body weight?
Ian: Yeah, based on body weight and metabolic conditioning. I mean, if you're in great shape, what I would tell you is you could do the same thing. You're in far better shape than I am, so two tablespoons, I'd up it. If I were you, I'd probably do three or four. That way you're going to hit a balance really rapidly, and then you'd notice the effects quickly.
Ben: Okay. Got it.
Ian: Yeah. And one word of caution though is you can super precipitate your skeletal muscles. So, if you do megadosing, you have to be very cautious and conscious of your movements because you can move too much weight. You'll get a signal across and it'll fire more of your muscle. Normally, your brain downregulates, you're firing 25% to 30%.
Ben: Yeah. That that's happened to me before, tDCS.
Ian: Yes, exactly.
Ben: There's that company called Halo and they make the head-worn device that induces neuroplasticity and also enhances motor neuron activation. And you actually need to be careful if you put that on before an intense weight training workout because you can actually recruit so many motor neurons that the eccentric muscle tissue damage that you do leaves you sore for a long time. So, you have to be mentally prepared for that.
Ian: Yeah, that's exactly right, and mental preparation. I built a tDCS unit for myself, and this was a couple years ago, just to try and see what kind of responses I could elicit before Halo was a thing. And I ended up burning two patches into my scalp where I had two very large rectangular patches.
Ian: It was hot, literally. Yeah.
Ben: Okay. So, pre-workout, you could actually take three to four tablespoons. You just need to be prepared for the–
Ian: Yeah. You've got to be very cognizant of how much you're actually moving because if you can normally move 100 pounds, suddenly, you have the capacity to move 300 pounds. Just because if you do that much recruitment, you'll hurt yourself. Your body's not designed for that. So, it kind of puts you in the driver's seat a little bit.
Ben: I doubt you could go from 100 to 300 pounds. That's a jump. I mean, that's like saying somebody who's doing a 300-pounds walk could do a 400-pound squad.
Ian: Really, all it takes is if your brain is shunting your response so that you can only get 25% to 30% capacity firing, and then suddenly you're able to get 60% capacity firing, you've effectively doubled what you can do. And if you take too much and you suddenly are going to, electrically, you're stimulating 100% of your muscle firing, it's effectively like fight-or-flight. And so, you're going to cap out at what you can normally do, which is about three times what you would be able to do normally, which again, I would not recommend, but it's just a matter of firing, right?
Ben: I'm going to try. I'm going to take this stuff and put on the Halo headset, and then go to the gym. I got to be on a plane all day tomorrow.
Ian: Can I give your eulogy? I'm down with that.
Ben: No. Seriously, I got to be on a place all day tomorrow. I'm in the gym this afternoon. I'll be able to do it.
Ian: Do it up.
Ben: Yeah. I'll give you some feedback. Your website, I'll link to that in the shownotes, but that's where people can get just a regular old C60. They could get this stuff we just took, which is the C60 with the serrapeptidase and kind of like the joint support stuff in it.
Ben: I know you got another one that has–what's it called? Revitalize?
Ben: Rejuvenate, and that's more for what —
Ian: It's actually geared for women and just for anyone who's really working that has a hyaluronic acid in it and it's geared for–
Ben: Hyaluronic acid?
Ian: Yeah, supple skin.
Ian: Yeah, exactly.
Ben: And then this neuroplastic juice that you're working on, top secret.
Ian: Yeah. We're probably going to build it as energy serum because it really does —
Ben: Tragic diarrhea.
Ian: Yeah. I don't know that that's a great trade name, just saying.
Ben: You can use me as a guinea pig. So, if you were listening in right now, I'm going to link to all this stuff if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/c60podcast. And if you go there, I would imagine there's some people that are going to have some questions, comments, feedback, leave them all there and I'll jump in and try and point you guys on the right direction. Ian, dude —
Ben: It's a pleasure, man.
Ian: Yes. Very so fascinating.
Ben: Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.
I've been getting a lot of questions about C60 – AKA Carbon 60 – AKA Buckminsterfullerene – which is now being championed as one of the most potent anti-aging and anti-inflammatory molecules in existence, and highly effective for both people and animals.
So I decided to get one of the world's leading C60 researchers and formulators on my show to discuss C60 and beyond. His name is Ian Mitchell.
Ian based the development of his version of his company's C60 on the detoxification of the body, the reduction of inflammation, and the associated pain that comes with it. His product contains an assortment of ingredients that exhibit antioxidant properties 270 times stronger than Vitamin C, eliminate scar tissue, and rehabilitate injured tissues. The result is an increase in energy, alertness, and overall well being.
Ian's company, C360Health, adheres to the strictest quality control standards that assure the purity of Carbon60 Plus. Unlike most other C60 EVOO producers, they are not just buying and mixing “off the shelf” components. They carefully test the Carbon60 assuring maximum purity and yield and then combine that with domestically sourced olive oil. This allows them to control all components of the supply chain as well as to perform periodic inspections at all stages of the process. Their Carbon60 purity is measured using HPLC (High-Performance Liquid Chromatography) and extra virgin olive oil tested via spectrophotometric analysis.
During this discussion, you'll discover:
-Vape pens that don't burn the lungs…7:35
- Pre-lace vape juice w/ compounds that block metabolization of compounds
- Upregulating bioavailability of compounds means you can use less of them
- BGF podcast w/ Hunter McIntyre
-A theory on how to decalcify your pineal gland…11:30
- Epitalon peptide
-Ian's current body of work…15:55
- Research scientist
- Biological puzzles, leading to hardcore physics
- Cancer research has led to a way to shut down metastasizing of cancer cells
- C60 (which oil you use as a carrier influences the site of action within the body)
- Lab is in Tulsa, OK; C60 HQ is in Austin, TX
- LipoFullerene (C60 inducted to a fat and attached to a sugar)
- Studied chemistry and jazz performance in school (more in common than you might think)
-The LipoFullerene Ian and Ben had while recording the podcast…24:20
-What is C60?…26:20
- Allotrope, soccer ball shape
- Many properties: stable, strong,
- Negative early press stymied research progress in the beginning
- 2012 report by Fathi Moussa
- Rats lived 90% longer
- C60 is synthesized in a lab, not naturally produced by the body
- Only occurs at intersection of vacuums, lightning strikes
- C60 labs across the world function and create C60 differently
-How C60 is able to effectively treat cancer…36:05
- Cancer proliferates w/ dysregulation in energy levels in the mitochondria
- It coops your immune system and uses it to signal spreading
- Crush the cytokine levels
- Multi-modal approach (can't use C60 exclusively)
-Effects of C60 on cognition, performance, etc…38:05
- It will build up over time
- Not to be used as a cancer prevention strategy
- “Cupcake of doom”
- Cognitive shift over time (new neurons)
- Points of inflection (punctuated equilibrium)
- BGF podcast w/ Dr. Bill Andrews
- C60 used in an anti-aging stack
-Why and how you should use C60 on pets…42:45
- We're all mammals…
- Increased mobility in rescued greyhounds
-Whether there is concern over synthetic compounds shutting down inflammation too much…48:00
- Take it irregularly
- Selective antioxidant
- Environment plays a factor in how much to use and its frequency
- Don't take large doses immediately before an important meeting (caprylic acid)
-Why deuterium-depleted water (DDW) will make a major impact in the future…53:00
- BGF podcast w/ Dr. Thomas Cowan
- BGF podcast w/ Robert Slovak
- DDW will make a huge impact in the future
- Changes how mitochondria processes
- You want deuterium in your system as a baby; not as an adult
- Used to combat environmental stresses in the industrial age
- Center for Deuterium Depletion
-Other interesting things Ian is currently researching…57:35
- Localized hyperthermia
-And much more…
Resources mentioned in this episode:
– BGF podcasts mentioned:
- BGF podcast w/ Hunter McIntyre
- BGF podcast w/ Dr. Bill Andrews
- BGF podcast w/ Dr. Thomas Cowan
- BGF podcast w/ Robert Slovak
– Halo device
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