July 19, 2017
Podcast from https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/2017/07/how-testosterone-injections-work/
[00:00] Introduction/Joovv
[01:09] Christian Gratitude Journal
[02:38] biOptimizers/Four Sigmatic
[06:27] Dr. Richard Gaines
[11:47] Growth Hormone Injections 101
[16:44] Why It Isn't Called “Growth Hormone” On The Label
[20:00] Using Growth Hormone
[23:59] Aging And Being “Too Anabolic”
[24:48] Growth Hormone Levels In The Body
[28:16] Taking Growth Hormone And The Body's Natural Hormone Production
[32:00] Best Practices For Taking Testosterone
[37:01] Quick Commercial Break/Casper Mattress
[39:44] Anti-Aging And Testosterone
[44:32] Androgen Receptor Modulators
[49:46] The P-Shot And O-Shot
[1:01:32] Finding The Right Practitioner
[1:07:30] End of Podcast
Ben: Hey, folks. It's Ben Greenfield, and I'm not wearing any pants. I'm actually not kidding you. I am not wearing pants right now. I am shining light on my gonads. I do that sometimes for health. Look it up, there's actually health effects. I have a video out there about it. If you go to youtube.com/bengreenfieldfitness, there is a video there, just do a search over there for “Joovv”, J-O-O-V-V, and you'll see a rather entertaining video of me explaining why I'm not wearing pants and shining lights at myself. Why am I telling you this? Because it actually is kind of relevant to today's podcast episode in which I talk about ways that you can do things like enhance orgasms, and drive, and blood flow, and pleasure. Not just that, but also growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor, testosterone, hormones in women, these things called SARMS and peptides, and a whole lot more with Dr. Richard Gaines.
Now, in addition I want to tell you about a couple of things. First of all, the Kickstarter campaign for my gratitude journal is going strong. Yes, it is a Christian gratitude journal. And yes, Christians can still care about things like the strength of your pelvic muscles and the quality of your orgasms. I'm all about that. I'm also all about waking up every single morning and naming one thing I'm grateful for, and naming one truth that I discovered in that morning's inspirational reading, and also naming not my “me, me, me”, and my “I, I, I”, and what can I accomplish today, and how good, and how great, and how wonderful am I, but instead who's that one person that I can help, or that I can pray for, or that I can serve each day. That's exactly how I begin each day and it's exactly how you can begin each day as well with this journal I created. I just shipped thousands of these over from getting printed overseas. They're these beautiful hard bound journals that I think you're absolutely gonna love it. And you can support the entire campaign and the money that I'm pouring in to getting this thing off the ground if you just go to christiangratitude.com. Tell your business colleagues, tell your church, your pastor if you go to a church, any home group, study group, your friends, Facebook, all the help I can get, I'll take. Go to christiangratitude.com.
This podcast is brought to you by biOptimizers. biOptimizers makes this probiotic that's one of the most potent protein digesting probiotics in the world. It actually enhances the ability of digestive enzymes to be able to break down things like protein so that you have more bioavailable amino acids for mental clarity and focus, and neurotransmitters, and of course your muscles. They combine the P3-OM with this stuff called Masszymes. And so you get the digestive enzymes and the probiotic all in one fell swoop. You automatically get 10% off if you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/biopt, that's bengreenfieldfitness.com/BIOPT.
This podcast is also brought to you by my favorite mushrooms on the face of the planet, and I'm not talking about the ones that grow out of cow pies. Can't talk about cow pies without a country accent. Anyways, it's this company called Four Sigmatic. Let me tell you about one of their blends. It's a green coffee blend with chaga and maitake. Now I'm getting on this big coffee and tea kick right now or I'm pretty much doing any type of coffee or tea that's not plain coffee or tea. Like this morning, I had moringa tea mix with matcha, and I actually frothed that over ice, and that was my morning tea beverage. Yesterday I took coffee and I used this green coffee stuff with the chaga and the maitake, and I prepared that with hot water. But I've actually been using a temperature control that allows me to adjust the temperature of the coffee because the temperature that you heat the coffee at affects the antioxidant activity. So I've been actually drinking my coffee at about 165 degrees Fahrenheit right now. I know. Doesn't that sound anal. But I'm doing it. Anyways this green coffee is extremely high in antioxidants, chaga's fantastic for your immune system, maitake is great for your liver, your blood sugar, longevity, a whole host of other factors. And you can get that along with any of my other favorite mushroom coffee and mushroom blends. And when you go to foursigmatic.com/greenfield, coupon code BenGreenfield gets you 15% off. Alright, let's go talk to Dick.
In this episode of The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“Platelets themselves, these are cellular fragments that in the bloodstream, help clotting. But when you isolate them and inject them, they release growth factors which stimulate tissue, which is a transforming growth factor, insulin-like growth factor, brain-derived neurotrophic factor. There's about seven or eight growth factors in these platelets.”
Ben: Hey, folks. What's up? It's Ben Greenfield. And in the podcast, called brace yourself, “The Non-Pill, Natural Alternative To Viagra That Instantly Fixes Erectile Dysfunction, Boosts Drive In Men & Women, Enhances Orgasms & Much More”, I interviewed this guy named Dr. Richard Gaines. And in that show, we talked about how he uses something called acoustic soundwave therapy in men and in women to do things like enhance orgasms, and drive, and blood flow, and size, and sexual pleasure, and a whole lot more. And you can go listen to that episode if you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/gainswave, that’s bengreenfieldfitness.com slash gains, just like it sounds like, gains and then with the word wave, you can go and listen to that show. I’ll link to it. But the fact is that Dr. Gaines actually does a lot more than that. He specializes in much more than just waving soundwaves over one's gonads. And in today's show, I wanted to bring him back on to talk about things like testosterone injections, and growth hormones, and platelet-rich plasma injections, and anti-aging, and a whole bunch of other things that he specializes in that we didn't get a chance to really talk much about.
So if you've ever wondered how one would use, say, injections or needles to build muscle, or lose fat, or defy aging, or enhance sexual performance, then this episode is a must-listen for you. With of course the caveat that if you're one of those athletes competing in some sanctioned sport, like a WADA or USADA sanctioned sport, Ironman triathlon, Spartan racing, some type of bodybuilding event that doesn't allow for things like this, please proceed with caution and please take everything that we talk about with a grain of salt 'cause I don't give you the impression that you can just like willy-nilly wander into the realm of anti-aging if you are an athlete in a tested sport. And so I just have to throw that caveat out there for those of you listening and who are competing in some of those sports.
Anyways though, Dr. Gaines himself, he's an MD, he's considered one of the nation's leading anti-aging practitioners 'cause he's been doing this since the early 90's in terms of both hormone therapy and sexual wildness treatments, and he graduated himself from the Boston University School of Medicine in 1981, the year I was born, and then he had obtained his fellowship at Harvard Medical School, and now he runs this anti-aging medical practice down in Hollywood, Florida, very near to Miami, where I flew into a few months ago to do his acoustic soundwave therapy on my gonads, which wound up being such a success for me, you may have read about it in Men's Health Magazine, and in Playboy, and all over the internet 'cause I kind of reported on my own happy results from those treatments. And I'm going to actually go back down there in August to do some more of these treatments that we're going talk about today, like the P-Shot, and PRP, and some of these other kind of fringe things that one can do to engage in just a bit of better living or better pleasure through science. So, Dr. Gaines is a pretty big wealth of knowledge on all this stuff and we're lucky to have back on the show. So Dr. Gaines, welcome back.
Dr. Gaines: Hey, Ben. Thanks a lot. It's great to be back with you. By the way, I started my business in Hollywood, Florida, but I don't want you flying back there because we're located in Aventura, where you were before. Aventura is actually north Miami Beach.
Ben: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Did you guys move to new clinic? ‘Cause I know you're building like a fancy new clinic.
Dr. Gaines: We are. And it's going to be across the street, but the Aventura, when I got very big, I moved from Hollywood into Aventura where you were the first time you came down. So that's where we are, and we are moving even from there because we've grown so much, we bought a floor of the new building.
Ben: Okay. Got it. One other quick question before we dive in. Do you get much flak for being named Dr. Richard Gaines, a.k.a. Dick Gaines with what you do?
Dr. Gaines: You know, what's interesting is that no, I haven't. But it's a great idea that you came up with.
Ben: I'm really the first person who's ever given you flak for that?
Dr. Gaines: It's true. You are the first who's actually put it down in writing. And I think it's a great thing. It might be a great thing. Who knows? I remember when I was a kid, somebody called me Dick once and I never liked it, so I've always gone by Rich. But now I'm starting to like it.
Ben: I know. It goes perfectly with what you do, for good or for bad. I like it. I dig it. I say why not run with it. Anyways though, so you do these hormone therapy injections right? You do growth hormone, and sermorelin, and a lot of these things that can help one to amp up their growth hormone. And we've talked about growth hormone before on the show, we've talked about using natural methods like things like colostrum, and raw milk, and sleeping better, and even fasting after workouts as ways to naturally increase growth hormone. We even talked a lot about growth hormone injections. So can you run me through kind of like growth hormone injections 101 and how this actually works? And I do want to ask about testosterone injections too, but I'd like to start with growth hormone.
Dr. Gaines: Okay. Good. I'll focus on that. But in general, as we age, we lose hormones. We know that adding them back and maintaining good levels is good for your health, it delays the degenerative disease or prevents it. It's been proven in the medical literature. With growth hormone specifically. It first became purified, let's say, in the early 80’s, only the early 80's. I'm sorry, or yeah, in the early 80's. And before that time, they used to use animal a growth hormone for children with short stature because they realized that it was a growth hormone deficiency, a pituitary dysfunction that they were dealing with, and it would give a couple of inches of growth to these kids so they weren't terribly short. In 1979, 1988, it became purified, and of course animal growth hormone wasn't necessary. The problem with the animal products is that sometimes it transmitted viruses and disease and it caused issues in some children.
So with this purified product in the early 80's, it became more common, especially for children with short stature, and the kids did very well being exposed to this. Also, it became lumped in with the Controlled Substances Abuse Act because it became very popular for bodybuilding. It's one of the only hormones or medications on formulary that has to be prescribed specifically for growth hormone deficiency. Now there is deficiency in kids, deficiency in adults, and there some diseases it's approved for, but it's very, very specific, unlike any other medication on formulary which can be used off label, in quotes. About 50% of medications are used off label. Because we know it works, it's just that the drug companies who make them have to get approved for one of the known uses because it's so expensive with the FDA approval process. But anyway with growth hormone, if one is deficient, it's very beneficial to replace it, and it's a bio-identical, atom per atom, the same hormone that we have in our bodies throughout our life.
Ben: So when you say it's identical, like atom for atom, I assume that's what bio-identical means, so is it extracted from an animal source prior to being injected into one's body or is this synthesized in a laboratory setting?
Dr. Gaines: Very good question. It actually is synthesized. Now that doesn't mean it's not bio-identical. The body looks at it, sees it, they know it's the same hormone that's made in the pituitary gland, and they treat it at the same way, the body treats it in the same way. It's actually this assigned DNA recombinant technology that's really brought growth hormone to a level where it became popular and safe. And that was again in the early 80's. They actually took a bacteria, and by genetic engineering, they taught this bacteria how to make growth hormone, and it's generated in the lab that way.
Ben: Oh, fascinating.
Dr. Gaines: Now there are other different techniques now, but generally this recombinant technology made it very safe and made it bio-identical so that it could be taken by anybody who has a deficiency.
Ben: Now when the bacteria are making these growth hormones, they're then extracted, and I assume you bottle these up and prior to being injected, is anything else done to them? Like the bacteria produce a growth hormone and then you would prescribe it to a client to use, and it's just as simple as that?
Dr. Gaines: Of course it's whole laboratory process. They don't inject bacteria, but the bacteria extrude this protein, 191 amino acids in a certain sequence which forms the hormone growth hormone. Of course because it's in a certain sequence, it folds in proper way, and they isolate it and purify this, and that's how growth hormone is delivered.
Ben: Fascinating. Now when I've seen growth hormone, I see it under labels, like Sermorelin is one popular one, S-E-R-M-O-R-L-I-N, something like that. Why don't they just call it “growth hormone” on the label?
Dr. Gaines: Well it's interesting because there are some vitamins that have growth hormone secretagogues, things that help a human secrete growth hormone from the brain, and that's the amino acids like ornithine, and glycine, and lysine, but I've seen it on these vitamin packages saying this is growth hormone, which is totally false. It isn't growth hormone. It's actually amino acids. Sermorelin is a hormone, it's a copy of a hormone called growth hormone secreting hormone. Now that is a hormone that the body makes in the hypothalamus, which is a part of the brain, which then stimulates the pituitary to make growth hormone.
It seems very complicated, but there's feedback and there's negative feedback mechanisms involved, but growth hormone releasing hormone actually is a more natural way of producing one's own growth hormone. So in other words, in younger patients, if I were to have a 30 year old man come in and he has of course hypogonadism for some reason, which happens, and low growth hormone, I may try to use Sermorelin first because younger patients respond to it better, they have younger pituitaries, and they stimulate the cells in the pituitary to make growth hormone. Now older patients, over 50, 60, respond to Sermorelin less well, or growth hormone releasing hormone less well. And they would mainly from the replacement, the use of growth hormone itself.
Ben: Interesting. Okay. So what that basically means is you kind of have two options to increase your level of growth hormone. One would be via the use of this growth hormone releasing hormone, something like Sermorelin, to induce your body's own production, your own natural production of growth hormone, and this would be like in a younger individual, a better choice. But if you're older and your pituitary gland is losing its ability to produce as much growth hormone as it would normally, and you want to engage in this concept of better living through science, then you could to do something like use this growth hormone that's produced by the bacteria that you alluded to in like a laboratory setting?
Dr. Gaines: Exactly. And I can tell you that this is my outlook on every hormone. First of all, we try to be proactive, preventive, we try to have our organs make these hormones for as long as possible, and I encourage good lifestyle, et cetera, et cetera. There are a few ways I can stimulate production of hormone, and if I can't get all the way there, I would add back the hormone itself. So it's always a combination of stimulating either the pituitary gland, or the genitals, I mean or the testes, or even the pancreas to do what it's supposed to be doing, or adding the hormone back.
Ben: Now when someone's using something like growth hormone releasing hormone, this Sermorelin, are there other compounds that typically would go along with that that you take at the same time as like a GHRH, or is it typically something that you're able to just use all on its own?
Dr. Gaines: Well when you talk about the peptides GHRH, and GHRH 2 and 6, these are actually peptides which…
Ben: A peptide, by the way, being just like a string of amino acids correct?
Dr. Gaines: That's it. That's what that growth hormone is, honestly. It's not a steroid hormone. It got lumped in with the abuse act, Controlled Substance Abuse Act with anabolic steroids. It is not an anabolic steroids. It actually is a protein, like you said, the string of amino acids…
Ben: Interesting. Why would it get lumped in with something like testosterone and like a steroid?
Dr. Gaines: Because bodybuilders were abusing chemical anabolics, like Winstrol and Stanazolol, well that's Stanazolol, and all these chemical anabolics that were developed in Germany. And of course they work, but they have a lot of downsides. So they were then controlled and made Class 1 and you can't even prescribe it honestly legally in this country. But growth hormone got lumped in there for abuse purposes. You cannot abuse growth hormone. It has to be used on a label.
Ben: Okay. Got it. So you could take a GHRH or a growth hormone on its own without needing to do things like extra, like when one takes steroids, and I actually want to talk to you a little bit about this, like the use of testosterone and the safe use of testosterone, you need to take things like, in many cases, aromatase inhibitors to keep it from getting converted into estrogens, cycle on and off, and those type of things. So with growth hormone, is it really as simple as just literally getting your hands on growth hormone, or growth hormone releasing hormone, and simply administering on a daily basis with nothing else to go along with it?
Dr. Gaines: No. I do recommend that of course you're being followed in monitored. Because honestly higher levels of growth hormone or IGF-1, which is made in the liver in response to levels of growth hormone, can really cause overgrowth in certain things, in other words, like acromegalics have a tumor that produces growth hormone. They are very tall, they're over 6’5”, and they are very big, muscular, they have their front teeth spread apart. These ours some signs that there's a higher, very, very high levels of growth hormone. I'm talking about 10 times the normal amount in a…
Ben: Right. The stereotypical caveman look that you see a lot of football players and bodybuilders get, like with the big eyebrows. So that's typically a sign that someone is on massive amounts of typically growth hormone, and also in many cases testosterone. Correct?
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. You sort of can pick them out. What's interesting is these acromegalics, and it's not talked about, but these acromegalics, there's been large studies on them, they do not have any increased incidence of cancer. Okay? So there is not one study anywhere that shows growth hormone, which you know unfortunately has growth, it should be called human repair hormone, there's not one study showing that it causes human cancer.
Ben: That's nuts because that's about all you see is talk about an IGF-1 sweet spot when it comes to avoiding the risk for carcinogenicity with either too much milk, and protein, and insulin-like precursors, or the use of growth hormone. Although I suppose that some of that is related to the discussion on anti-aging, like too much activation of the mTOR pathway potentially causing a state of like an increased rate at which telomeres would shorten. Now you're saying there's no studies that show an increased risk of cancer, but what about that ageing argument that one could excessively age if you were in too anabolic a state?
Dr. Gaines: There is some experimental evidence to that effect. I happen to agree with it. I think that high levels, unnatural levels of any of these hormones can, you're going in territories that aren't generally understood. I think any hormone that we replace should be replaced to an age of about a 30 year old, and this is where we try to pinpoint our therapy for any of these hormones.
Ben: Got it. Now is there, when it comes to IGF, that's something that's relatively easy to monitor via a simple blood evaluation, things like IGF and insulin for example, is there a sweet spot that one would look for? When you talk about trying to maintain the levels that, for example, a 30 year old would have, is there a natural number, a natural range you can toss out there?
Dr. Gaines: Yes. Because in my practice, I can tell you with the experience I've had, I can tell you that some people respond to, I go by school grades. And if you look at two standard deviations of people's blood work fall into two standard deviations, and growth hormone peaks in the middle of that, in the average and then it comes down low and goes low numbers when it's measured in higher doses. So I shoot for the upper, the third, the upper third of that range because we know the benefits. And as we age, we know we lose growth hormone. Now with all these considerations, I look for a range, and IGF-1 between about 180 to 300. I'm very conservative. There are people in my field of age medicine who suggest levels up to 450. I don't think that's really appropriate. That's for kids who are 17, 16 and I think that mainly we should concentrate on when we're adults, it's usually about between 180 and 300. I'm happy in there. I don't want to go much higher than that in my patients.
Ben: Got it. 180 to…
Dr. Gaines: Some people respond really well to lower levels. Some people respond, they do very well at 180, and they don't need anymore, they're fit, they're happy, they're lean. Everybody's different, I have to say. All these hormones which we really haven't talked about, we'll go to testosterone, but they all interact together. It's like a symphony. That's what it's been termed.
Ben: Before we turn to testosterone, just a couple other things about growth hormone. First of all, just from a practical logistical standpoint, this is always administered via an injection?
Dr. Gaines: Unfortunately, because it's a peptide, it is a very delicate molecular structure. So I mean if you squirted it out on a table, it'll fall apart. If you take it under your tongue, it's going to fall apart and it won't get absorbed through the tissues. The best way, and the most consistent way to deliver a specific dosage is with very subcutaneous injection 'cause it goes there undamaged and the small capillaries will take it up and bring it to the rest of the body.
Ben: So this would be the same way that one would administer, for example, insulin if they were a diabetic? You just go right underneath the skin with just a basic, like an insulin syringe?
Dr. Gaines: Exactly.
Ben: Okay. Got it. Now when it comes to injecting something like this on a daily basis, or from what I understand, on a nightly basis is better because growth hormone can assist with sleep and with repair as one sleeps, and that's one of the reasons that sleep is so important, 'cause you naturally produce a lot when you sleep. But related to the body's natural production, and I'd like to hear about your thoughts on this with both growth hormone or a growth hormone releasing hormone like Sermorelin, do you risk shutting down your pituitary's own natural production? Like is this kind of like testosterone where you are either going to be stuck on it for life or kind of like fighting an uphill battle for a while once you get off it if you start taking something like growth hormone or growth hormone releasing hormone?
Dr. Gaines: These are really good questions and I've sort of learned to answer them over the years. Obviously as we're aging, we can't make optimal levels of these hormones. So again, the only way it can get them back is doing a proper lifestyle, stimulating production, or adding back the hormone. On occasion, adding back the hormone will suppress production of the hormone in your body. But don't forget, in my type of therapies, I stimulate production as well. I encourage stimulating production even while adding back the hormone. So your question is, yes. If done improperly, it will suppress production and you'll be down for a long period of time. Generally what happens is when somebody goes off, let's say they're 40 years old, they come in, their growth hormone levels are very low, I replace growth hormone, they do well, and then they run out of money because that is expensive stuff. Their levels will fall and fall to where it would have been at their age. In other words, we'd continue to drop as far as the production of any hormone. And so if they've been on growth hormones at 10 years, they're going to drop to a low number, probably lower than they were 10 years before.
Ben: So basically the idea would be if you wanted to get all the advantages of growth hormone, if you're young and you're using growth hormone releasing hormone, if you're older and you want to use this just bio-identical, straight-up growth hormone, just start using it and plan on using in the same way that, for example I take five grams of creatine every morning year round, I don't cycle on it, I don't cycle off it, I just take it because I know that it's one of those molecules that's proven to be beneficial, to be safe, and to be something that's going to allow for everything from neurogenesis, to muscle growth, to power, to strength, and beyond. Even gut health, based on recent creatine studies for example. You're saying kind of similar to growth hormone, just take it and plan on staying on it.
Dr. Gaines: I feel that way. Now there are people who want to go off, and I say, “You can. Your levels were this before, it'll probably just drip down to where you were.” I always say “would have been” because aging does lower growth hormone levels. So let's say they came in with a level of 140, five years later they want to go off, they go off, it'll be 120. Usually. So there is a suppression that goes on, but aging does continue. So you have to calculate that in.
Ben: Got it. Okay. Now how about, let's turn to testosterone because I know you do a lot of work in testosterone therapy. I've talked to different folks, MMA fighters, et cetera, on the podcast before about testosterone and the fact that it's pretty well known out there that if you start taking it, there is some evidence that, kind of similar to the discussion that we just had, that it can kind of shut down the body's own natural production of testosterone if you take it in high amounts, long term, that type of thing. Now you mentioned with growth hormone that you would take it kind of on its own, that it would be okay to take on its own. With something like testosterone, are you administering or do you recommend taking things along with testosterone? If we were going to do, say, like a testosterone injection to actually mitigate some of the side effects of testosterone, or allow one to maintain one's own natural production to a certain extent. Like what are kind of best practices that you engage in when you are recommending something like testosterone?
Dr. Gaines: Yes, I certainly do. Before I get to testosterone, as far as a growth hormone, I sometimes recommend growth hormone in the morning, Sermorelin in the evening, and you can see my reasoning.
Ben: Oh. Interesting.
Dr. Gaines: In the evening, you want bigger spikes of growth hormone during good dream state. It should be called human repair hormone, we do a lot of repairing when we're sleeping, and it's very important, and it does help sleep, Sermorelin, in 70% of my patients. So I recommend stimulating the pituitary at night, in the morning, then taking a dose of growth hormone. So it is similar to what I recommend for any hormone. Talking about testosterone, I recommend taking testosterone if you need it, but stimulating production as well. Everybody knows that when you take you're on testosterone, your balls shrink. We know that they're not being stimulated. They're not being stimulated because there's a hormone called luteinizing hormone from the pituitary that is produced and it stops production because in a 40 year old, the pituitary is looking for a 40 year old level of testosterone. It's actually tasting the blood, this is the way I look at it. It's tasting and sampling the bloodstream.
If you're taking testosterone, testosterone goes up, the pituitary realizes that, “Hey, this is high level of testosterone, I'm not going to tell the testes to make testosterone anymore,” and it shuts off this luteinizing hormone. Well what I do, I combined therapy by injecting, by recommending the injection of something that looks like luteinizing hormone. It is half the molecule of it, it's the active portion of the luteinizing hormone, and that's what HCG is. So in most of my patients, I recommend, if they need testosterone, that they also need HCG.
Ben: HCG being human chorionic gonadotropin, that's HCG correct?
Dr. Gaines: HCG, yes. And the interesting thing is there is luteinizing hormone, actual luteinizing hormone on the market, very expensive through recombinant DNA technology to produce, but they've realized that human chorionic gonadotropin, which is widely available, is much easier to produce and distribute. It works in the same way.
Ben: Now how common would it be for one to just use HCG in the absence of testosterone? Like why wouldn't you just take that all on its own?
Dr. Gaines: Now that's a good question. As a matter of fact, in these fertility clinics where a couple is trying to have a baby, they recommend if there is some oligospermia or low testosterone in the male partner, they recommend high doses of HCG, injectable HCG throughout the week. And I offer that to younger men who come in who I just want to stimulate their production of testosterone, and I do it with a HCG. There is other chemicals, and we've learned this from, of course, the bodybuilding community, there are other chemicals that stimulate indirectly the production of testosterone from the testes. One of them, I'm sure you know is called clomifene, but that's, it's a medication I'm not crazy about it. There's nuero-opthalmologic symptoms that develop…
Ben: That's Clomid, right?
Dr. Gaines: Clomid. Correct. It's a drug, so there are side effects. The body really doesn't recognize it as a bio-identical hormone. There are some certain side effects, but it does work. And I offer sometimes, this is called stimulation therapy. I often recommend stimulation therapy for my male patients if I think their testes will respond. And usually that's in younger men, under 40.
Ben: And stimulation therapy would be something like the use of Clomid along with something like HCG?
Dr. Gaines: It's usually either or. If they can take little injections, I'd recommend the HCG because I like it better, it's more bio-identical. It's just analogue of luteinizing hormone. Whereas Clomid is really an anti-estrogen type thing that we have to take. But that's oral. So if they can take injections, I recommend the HCG. That's stimulation therapy, yup.
Ben: Okay. That's stimulation therapy. So you could do testosterone along with HCG, or you could do testosterone along with Clomid to allow yourself to escape the notorious ball shrinking effect of something like testosterone?
Dr. Gaines: Yes.
Ben: Okay.
Dr. Gaines: Yes. But I prefer HCG, as I told you.
Ben: Interesting.
[Music Plays]
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Ben: And do you endorse the use of a testosterone injection, or a cream, or a lotion, or what is kind of the best practice in anti-aging medicine right now when it comes to the administration of testosterone?
Dr. Gaines: That's a good question. I've learned a lot from my patients. I learn every day from my patients. But I can tell you that I know that it's so important to have your hormones in a school grade of an A or a B to prevent degenerative disease like Alzheimer's, osteoporosis, diabetes, and frailty that affected it and even cancer is on the list. But I know it's so important that I will do whatever it takes to get their hormone levels back. So if a patient can tolerate creams, females tolerate creams much better. But men, it's twice a day, every day, you have to smear this stuff on the inside of your thigh, or on your leg, or shoulder, but generally it's a pain in the neck. But there are men who are so afraid of needles once a week that I recommend this cream twice a day. It works if they follow directions, and most of my patients do. I will do anything that it takes to get their hormone levels back. Now there is a pellet therapy where you can, it's with a large needle, you numb up the skin in the buttock region with a large needle, you go under the skin, you tunnel under the skin, and you put in pellets, testosterone pellets. For females, you can do testosterone and estrogen. You can actually put an estrogen blocker in the men as well. But generally, this is a one-way street.
Ben: Then this is an actual pellet that dissolves over a long period of time?
Dr. Gaines: Yes. It's compressed under thousands of pounds of pressure and it's designed to release a small amount of testosterone every time the heart beats. It's like licking the pellet with every heartbeat. (laughs)
Ben: It seems as though, when it comes to, when you see folks like Peter Diamandis, for example, getting implants that self-quantify you know things like blood glucose and number of steps taken, and I'm reading a book called “Beyond Human” right now, which talks about how you could, for example, get a pacemaker for the brain that would enhance one's memory, or you could get like a pacemaker for hormones that would automatically detect one's hormonal status and allow for the automatic release of the hormones that you need. How close, like for you being in anti-aging medicine, how close are we to tying something like that to technology to where you could automatically detect blood levels of something like testosterone for example and then have something like that pellet be released accordingly?
Dr. Gaines: You know generally how these things work in the body with negative feedback loops or positive feedback loops, and physiologically we sort to know. I think it would be pretty straightforward to design a computer to, when we get advanced enough to make it small enough, to be placed in the body and it would regulate a hormone status. Now, what's the fellow's name. Ray Kurzweil. He's very big on nanotechnology. He talks about nanobots that can be injected and directed to a proper organ, and these things can regulate our function. I think it's going to happen, it's going to be very expensive for the next hundred years, so I think we've got a long time to wait. And I'm not sure that's going to be available in our lifetime.
Ben: Yeah. I was just curious, all these anti-aging conferences you go to, if that's a rather hot topic or not. It sounds like it's not quite on the cusp of being created yet.
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. It's not there yet.
Ben: Okay. Got it.
Dr. Gaines: I think it's very reasonable. I'm with you.
Ben: Yeah. It'd be interesting. So if anybody's listening in, you can always pipe into the comments, or just like take that and run with it and send me the royalty checks when you create this self-quantifying device for testosterone. Now what about alternatives to something like testosterone? Like one thing that you see talked about quite a bit lately is selective androgen receptor modulators, or SARMs, as one alternative to using something like testosterone or as a way to build muscle or burn fat. What's your take on these androgen receptor modulators?
Dr. Gaines: That has to do with peptide science, and peptides science is really, I mean there are medical books on peptide science, it's really incredible stuff. I think it's going to happen. I'm actually recommending a number of peptides to some of my patients, SARMs is already here. I have a few patients on SARMs because the technology has gone this way. First of all, most of the research has been done in Europe and in Australia on peptides. In the United States, it's always been illegal, you can buy it on the internet, it says “Not for human consumption,” “Experimental use only,” stuff like that. Now the FDA has approved a few compounding pharmacies to provide this for human consumption. So they are coming around, and I think SARMs has a place in health.
Ben: But in terms of mechanism of action, how is it working any differently than something like testosterone?
Dr. Gaines: Well there are some benefits, the way it works. I mean honestly testosterone does stimulate the prosthetic cells and it does cause a little growth. SARMs don't seem to, that's my understanding. So PSA, we follow PSAs in men because 1 out of 10 men over 50 have some form of, I don’t want to say cancer, but some form of dysfunctional cells in the prostate. I think cancers come and go, I think the immune system has a lot to do with it. If you have a healthy immune system, these sites of bad cells will be consumed by natural killer cells, et cetera. But the point is that SARMs do not stimulate prosthetic tissue. So there are some benefits. It is a peptide, it is not a steroid. So there's benefits with that as well. Subcutaneous injections instead of IM injections. There's still a lot even I need to look before I really make any strong suggestions to your audience.
I mean I think there is a place for SARMs, I think there are CJC-1295 DAC, which indirectly stimulates growth hormone production. There's a couple of like thymosin beta-1, these have healing properties. I think it's early on even for me to offer it to my patients, though I have with SARMs, I have already done that with the CJC, I've already offered it to some of my patients also. Usually, it's a close consideration. They are less expensive than growth hormone, so I do recommend CJC to some patients, and we'll see how they do. It's really early for me to clinically tell you how it's been going. But the evidence is very strong that these SARMs and the CJC's, they do work. These are actually natural peptides that circulate in our blood stream.
Ben: I've written a couple articles on them. And I'll link to it. If you guys go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/gainswave, I'll link to a couple of my SARMs articles that I've written. But yeah, my understanding is there's a little bit less of a concern of some amount of aromatization, or conversion estrogen, or dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, that notorious oh-crap-I'm-going-bald steroid with similar effects in terms of like drive, and strength gains, and fat loss, but of course there's no injections. SARMs are just like an oral, like a sublingual kind of liquid. And I believe there's not quite as much of an issue with the liver, although I think the liver issues would be if one were using very, very large amounts of testosterone. Is that correct? Like is there much harsh liver toxicity with like normal testosterone use?
Dr. Gaines: The only testosterone that really affects liver, is first-pass liver effect if you take it orally. Now SARMs, I misspoke before, SARMs can be taken orally and it doesn't have, not that I know of any, liver toxicity. Oral testosterone though does have liver toxicity.
Ben: Okay. Got it. But if you were doing like a testosterone injection, it would not be something that would have to be processed by the liver?
Dr. Gaines: No. Not at all.
Ben: Okay. Got it. Now we talked about growth hormones, and we talked about SARMs, and some of these growth hormone releasing hormones, a little bit about testosterone, and also about how to keep one's balls from shrinking, or to induce the release of luteinizing hormone with something like Clomid or HCG. But just like delving straight into the sexual performance side of things, which I know that's one thing that you and a lot of these clinics that you guys have around the country, that they are actually able to do, we've talked a lot about soundwave therapy in our previous podcast and my own interesting yet quite pleasurable results from doing your acoustic soundwave therapy treatment that's this GainsWave treatment, but tell me about these shots. There's been some talk in the biohacking sector about, for example, injecting one's gonads with stem cells. And I know you do something kind of similar for men and women, but from what I understand, you do something a bit different in terms of this thing called a P-shot and an O-shot. Can you go into what those are and how those work?
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. It's been described for about since 2008 or so, this has been going on now. This is injections of platelet rich plasma. Platelet rich plasma is basically taking someone's blood, whole blood, you take a sample out, you spin it in this special centrifuge, you withdraw a certain layer of that centrifuged substance, and in that layer is a high concentration of platelets. Now platelets themselves, these are cellular, they fragments that's in the bloodstream and help clotting. When you isolate them and inject them, they release growth factors which stimulate tissue, which is transforming growth factor, insulin-like growth factor, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, there's about seven or eight growth factors in these platelets because they help in healing. Platelets help in healing, so they carry this around. And if the platelets are spun properly and injected, they stimulate tissue growth, and tissue rejuvenation, collagen deposition, collagen reformation, neovascularization which is new vessel growth, and even some nerve tissue growth. It's been shown, this is a science that's developed over the last 30 years, it's been used for 30 years, and now it's been used in orthopedics, injecting it in joints, injecting it in wounds, in infections, and so it's nothing that's really new. There are 3 or 4,000 studies on PRP alone. You can go to Google and type PRP and any part of the body you want to, “PRP and finger”, “PRP and ear”, you'll see it in there. And “PRP and pancreas”.
Ben: Oh, yeah. I won't deny that there's a ton of evidence out there for, as matter of fact, I don't think I told you this but when I was a personal trainer, one of the things that I was known for and I think one of the reasons that I got thrust in the limelight early in my career as a personal trainer, or not early in my career but after busting my ass for about a decade in personal training, was I would use high speed video cameras for gait analysis and biomechanical analysis, and I did a lot of indirect calorimetry for VO2Max and metabolic rate measurements, and I did a lot of blood and biomarker measurements way back when nobody was really doing those because I partnered up with physicians in my personal training studio and we had a physicians’ clinic right there that would do these protocols. And we did EKGs, we did all manner of different kind of like high-tech cutting edge procedures that nobody else was doing in a freaking gym setting. And one of the things that I had there was I purchased, like I spent $12,000 on a MEDGRAPHICS VO2 analyzing unit and I purchased, I think it was about 10,000 to 12,000 dollars at the time, centrifuge and a platelet rich plasma injection unit because I had a doctor right there.
And so when I had clients who would come down with joint issues, we were doing injections right there in my personal training studio. And so I was familiar with PRP a decade ago, and part of that was because I was in hip and knee surgical sales for a short stint after college and I was aware of its utility when we would inject these into patients who are doing hip and knee surgeries to enhance the healing post-surgery. But I guess my big question is how does this work? Are you actually just like injecting straight into the genitals? I mean how does that actually work? It seems like it would really hurt basically is what I'm saying.
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. By the way, there's a difference between genitals and gonads. We're referring to gonads. With soundwave therapy, we sort of avoid the gonads. Those are actually the testicles and the ovaries.
Ben: Right. I mean the testicles and the ovaries.
Dr. Gaines: Genitals are more like the penis and the areas around that area. That's where we concentrate. We sort of avoid that area because it's sensitive, first of all, and soundwaves have been proven very beneficial for testes. But as far as the genitals go, there's a guy named Runels, Chuck Runels in 2008, he injected his own penis for some reason with PRP. He noticed benefits in himself. He then offered it to his patients, he noticed that they got effects, then he went on to lecture circuit. It became very popular. I remember going to one of us first lectures and having all these physicians around him afterwards. So we know that sexual energy and intimacy is a very important topic, I realized it then, and I went for training with Dr. Runels. And yes, you actually take the PRP and you do inject it into the shaft of the penis in very strategic locations. So it's about five injections.
Ben: Now I would assume that for both men and for women there's some sort of a numbing cream involved?
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I don't even like the word P-shot. I think it's ridiculous. Who wants a shot in the P? But people go for it because it does have good benefits. Yes, they put on a cream. It has a tetracaine, lidocaine, benzocaine, these are topical numbing medicines. And when you put this cream on, it numbs up the surface pretty good, but you can still feel a little pinch and sometimes a little pressure and burning. I'm not crazy about it. Because in my previous life, I was an anaesthesiologist, I said, “There must be a better way.” I looked up the anatomy, I found out that I could see that the dorsal penile nerves are in a potential space, and as anaesthesiologists, we inject potential spaces because those potential spaces have nerves running through it. When you inject a potential space, these nerves get soaked into local anaesthetic, and numbness occurs, or anaesthesia occurs, and that's what a spinal anaesthetic is. You inject it with potential space, lidocaine goes around. or whatever local anaesthetic you're using, it goes around the spinal cord and numbs up you from the waist down. You could do that in various parts of the body.
In the penis, there is a potential space near the abdomen where you can, just with a tiny little needle, inject a small amount of local anesthetic and it numbs up the whole shaft. Now it's funny because during the GainsWave therapy, Dr. Runels came down and I was training him. This is only about a year ago. And I showed him this block and he said, “Wow, that's a great idea.” So now it's recommended for of any P-shot, they do this little injection. So it's one little injection, numbs up the penis, and you can do all the rest of those strategic injections without any pain or burning at all. So that's the way I provide it, that's the service I provide to my patients. Similarly in females, there is a location with one single injection, you can make it a little more pleasant for them too. It's a little more difficult because they have nothing hanging out, but still you can numb them up pretty good with a CC of local anesthetic.
Ben: Yeah. I mean I did the numbing cream, when I came down for your GainsWave treatment, I did the numbing cream and it seemed to work just fine in terms of there being no discomfort at all for me. But I was just curious when it comes to these injections if it's kind of similar. ‘Cause as you know, I'm going to come down there and do it. I think I'm scheduled in mid-August to come down and do one of these P-shots. So if you're listening in, stay tuned…
Dr. Gaines: And you'll see the shot, you won't feel a thing. It's really a breeze.
Ben: Now you're doing those in conjunction with the GainsWave, were you doing like acoustic soundwave and the P-shot? Is this the new Gains enhancement thing that you're doing?
Dr. Gaines: Yeah. Yeah, I call it Gains Enhancement because I don't like the word shot, P-shot or anything like that. But I do give credit to Dr. Runels for injecting himself and his girlfriend, and publishing the data, and getting the word out. And by the way, the O-shot, when he developed that, he offered it in the gift bag, it was the Oscars and he got a lot of publicity out of that. He got some, of course, movie stars coming in for the O-shot that he provided for them free. But he got a lot of publicity and a lot of TV time. And that was about five, six years ago. But when I offer a P-shot, or a Gains Enhancement, it does have the GainsWave therapy before, just before the injection of PRP. What's interesting is both, the tissue response to these technologies are very similar. So GainsWave stimulates progenitor stem cells, it stimulates the growth of neovascularization, or new blood vessels, the collagen, et cetera, et cetera. Platelet rich plasma does the same type of thing. It's interesting. But I think it has, what I've seen is it may have a synergistic effect, they both work together in a beneficial way. So I do offer a Gains Enhancement, and when I do, it's done with GainsWave therapy and a P-shot.
Ben: Okay. So the way that that would work is someone comes in, they do the, is it the soundwave therapy and then you do the P-shot? Can I, 'cause when I went into your clinic, I got this done in like 20 minutes. Do you just come in and you do it all in one fell swoop?
Dr. Gaines: Yup. We sure do. And the thing is, you put the cream on, right? Well, when you come in next time, we start, we put on the cream, but we can do the block even before, we did that little block I told you about, the potential space with the nerve going through it, I do a little block, and then we do the GainsWave, you'll see, you're not going to feel a thing. It's a really strange sensation. And you know it was even strange with the cream. This is even a little more strange, but it only last about 45 minutes. So we give you double anaesthesia basically so that you don't feel anything with those injections.
Ben: Got it. Now you were offering for people who are listening in an actual discount, or a voucher for the GainsWave and the GainsWave Enhancement, I know. Our code is you text the word Greenfield to 313131. If you text the word Greenfield 313131, that gets you 150 bucks off of the GainsWave treatment. Will that also work, do you know, on this Gains Enhancement, if you want to do the one-two combo of the shot and the acoustic soundwave?
Dr. Gaines: Absolutely. Yeah. For your listeners, for sure.
Ben: Okay. Cool. So if you guys want to do that, you don't have to go to Aventura. There's 80 different docs around the nation that you can work with on this. And if you go to their website, which would be just gainswave.com, or could folks go to healthgains.com as well, Dr. Gaines? Or it doesn't matter? Where would be the best place for people to go if they want to find a spot?
Dr. Gaines: gainswave.com will get 'em pretty quick to the GainsWave affiliates. I think if they go to HealthGains, either one would be fine. Find out that HealthGains is more comprehensive, they'll look at the whole clinic. And of course you'll get linked over to GainsWave as well. So HealthGains is the one I like.
Ben: Okay. Perfect. And then what about for the injections, like for people who are listening in who can do this legally, who aren't MMA fighters, and they're not competing in Ironman triathlon, or Spartan racing, or something like that and they also want to do like testosterone, or they want to do growth hormone, or Clomid, or HCG, or these other things that you talked about, what's the best way for them to go about doing that if they want to get a hold of you or they want to work with somebody who you would vouch for?
Dr. Gaines: Well I have a lot of representatives here in Aventura. We have phones working all the time, and these guys, as a matter of fact, I sat with them, today's Friday right? Yesterday I sat with them for an hour, we go over things, I tell them what we have available, they're very knowledgeable, and be able to help anyone that calls, healthgains.com, the number will be there. I know the local number here, but healthgains.com is the best websites look at. Of course, the local number, 305 621 818…
Ben: Okay. So healthgains.com, and then for that, if they want to save anything, or get any kind of voucher, is there like a code or anything they should use, or should I work that out with your folks and we can put it in the show notes?
Dr. Gaines: Well I think they only have to mention your name, that's all they got to do.
Ben: Oh, okay. Easy enough.
Dr. Gaines: I'll contact my guys too, but I'm pretty sure that's all we need to hear is your name.
Ben: Okay. Cool. So if you're listening in, it's easy at that. Just give 'em a call, healthgains.com, mention the show. If whoever you talk to doesn't know what you're talking about, just leave a comment in the show notes over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/healthgains and we'll hook you up. ‘Cause I'm going to be talking about things like injections of testosterone or HCG on the show, I do want to make sure folks wind up working with somebody who's actually got a good head on their shoulders when it comes to this stuff, and isn't just like injecting willy-nilly, and isn't actually monitoring values. ‘Cause I know that you do a crap ton of like blood testing along with your actual administration of some of these things to ensure that it's done correctly. So make sure if you're listening, don't go to onlinepharmacy.com…
Dr. Gaines: We do it regularly. I just want to say with the monitoring, of course we're available all the time. You will have an assigned health coordinator who will be in touch with you all the time, I'm available all the time as far as appointments can go, and we do bloodwork every six months, which is necessary to monitor changes. Ben, I'm glad you mentioned also that as far as professional sports, we do try to stay away from that, it's a very touchy subject. I think one day they're going to have sports teams that are going to be opened, you can do anything you want and be an athlete as far as anabolics, but currently it's a frowned upon, and I do not treat anyone for specifically performance enhancement. It's all for health. Though of course…
Ben: Yeah. And that's a whole different can of worms that I know a lot of people will debate about is like should we allow athletes to actually get Lasik surgery, but not if they've got, let's say, testosterone levels of 300 or something, get them up to 800 with something like an injection. I know it's a whole different can of worms and I don't think we have time to delve into that, aside from the fact that I do think that it's a good idea to send a message to the youth in our country that you shouldn't try to override your biology with injections and things like that if you don't need them. I think the major thing is that unless you know what you're doing, and unless you're having something overseen by a medical professional, and can also afford to do that, it's playing with your body's chemistry set in a way that could be potentially dangerous.
So I do appreciate the fact that there are people out there trying to watch the backs of, especially I think a big part of it is young baseball players who are, let's say, 13 years old looking up to their favorite guy in the MLB, and if they know that guy is jacked to the gills, thinking about doing that themselves when they're in freaking high school. I mean like that's my main concern is obviously, as dumb as it may sound, kids and youth getting influenced by what people in professional sports are doing, which is I think a perfect argument for being very careful with this when it comes to regulation at the sporting level. So again, whole different can of worms, but definitely I want to make sure that folks know that I do not endorse this being done if you're in a sanctioned sport.
So all that being said, healthgains.com is the website, you can text the word Gain to 313131, and I think you just get a voucher sent straight back to your home, or to your phone, that will get you to GainsWave treatment at any of the different 80 participating physicians around the nation. And if you run into any trouble or any difficulty with any of those docs not recognizing the podcast when you talk about it, just leave a comment in the show notes and we'll bend over backwards to help you out and connect you with Dr. Gaines and his folks. So Dr. Gaines, thanks for coming on the show and sharing all this stuff with us, man.
Dr. Gaines: Thank you, Ben. It was a pleasure of being on your show. Alright, folks. Well I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Richard Gaines from bengreenfieldfitness.com signing out. Check out the show notes, bengreenfieldfitness.com/gainswave for all the goodness as well as the previous podcast up so that I did with Dr. Richard Gaines about the whole soundwave therapy thing, 'cause we took a deep dive into that in our other episode. So thanks for listening in and have a healthy week.
In the podcast “The Non-Pill, Natural Alternative To Viagra That Instantly Fixes Erectile Dysfunction, Boosts Drive In Men & Women, Enhances Orgasm & Much More.” I interviewed Dr. Richard Gaines about how he uses something called “Acoustic Sound Wave Therapy” in both men and women to enhance orgasms, drive, blood flow, size, sexual pleasure and much more.
But Dr. Gaines specializes in much more than simply sound wave therapy, and in today's show, I invite him back to talk about testosterone injections, growth hormones, PRP, SARMs, anti-aging and beyond. If you've ever wondered how one uses injections and needles to build muscle, lose fat, defy aging or enhance sexual performance, this episode is a must-listen.
Richard Gaines, MD, FAARM, ABAARM, is a leading practitioner of the rapidly evolving science of physician-guided age management. Since 1993 he has been administering hormone therapy and sexual wellness treatments, which have helped hundreds of men regain their self-confidence and live longer healthier lives! Dr. Gaines graduated from the Boston University School of Medicine in 1981, and subsequently obtained his Fellowship at Harvard Medical School.
In 2005 Dr. Gaines founded HealthGAINS, an anti-aging medical practice, where he resolved to find a new approach to ageing well, particularly for men struggling with age-related sexual performance issues. Today, Dr. Gaines has published 3 books, including one specifically on erectile dysfunction.
He remains at the forefront of creating innovative sexual wellness treatments, including the development of his revolutionary new treatment protocol for erectile dysfunction, GAINSWave™. Dr. Gaines understands how sexual performance can affect your self-esteem, and can impact every aspect of your relationships. Over the years he has helped thousands of men enjoy a happy and healthy sex life with his breakthrough sexual wellness treatments. Looking forward, his goal is to have men develop a deeper understanding of how and why their ability to perform changes with age. Additionally he aims to expose the many myths and misconceptions that there are about sexual wellness, and continue to lead the way in developing treatments, such as the GAINSWave™, that treat the root causes of ED and other age-related sexual issues.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-The fascinating story of how growth hormone is made by bacteria in a laboratory setting…[14:20]
-The difference between sermorelin (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) and actual growth hormone…[16:30]
-What the “sweet spot” value is for levels of Insulin Like Growth Factor is (and why there actually isn't an association between high IGF-1 and cancer!)…[23:15 & 24:36]
-Whether hormone therapy is “safe” and whether it shuts down the body's own natural production…[28:00]
-Why Dr. Gaines recommends taking one type of growth hormone in the morning and a different type of growth hormone in the evening…[32:00]
-How to keep your “balls from shrinking” when using testosterone…[39:45]
-When somebody takes a testosterone injection, whether they should only inject testosterone, or take other things at the same time…[44:10]
-What Dr. Gaines thinks about alternatives to testosterone injections, such as one popular supplement of late called “SARMs”…[44:30]
-The “P-shot” and “O-shot” that Dr. Gaines administers in his clinic, and how they work for enhancing sexual performance…[49:25]
-And much more!
Resources from this episode:
–The GainsWave website (if you want to go to Miami, Florida and have the protocol done by Dr. Gaines, simply mention this podcast or “Ben Greenfield” to save 5% off your entire protocol and any follow-up procedures you decide to get done – from P-shots to sound wave therapy and beyond.)
-Text the word “GAIN” to 313131 to receive a $150 voucher toward your first GAINSWave treatment at any of the 80 participating physicians nationwide.
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