January 20, 2012
[01:07] Mt. Capra Wholefood Nutritionals
[02:50] How They Make Their Protein Powders
[05:39] Protein Powder Made from Goat's Milk and Lactose Intolerance
[15:11] The Probiotic in DEEP30
[21:05] End of Podcast
Ben: Hey, folks. It's Ben Greenfield. And today, we're going to talk about protein powder. Now, if you've been a longtime listener of the podcast, you're probably familiar with Joe Stout, who is one of the food scientists at Mt. Capra Nutrition. Now, Mt. Capra Nutrition is also something that I've talked about before on the show. Joe has been on to talk about the difference between goat milk versus cow's milk, he's been on to talk about pretty much everything you need to know about a supplement called colostrum. He's talked before a little bit about protein powder. But today, we're going to talk in detail about a specific type of protein powder that I have personally been using quite a bit that is a lot different than anything I've used before. And so, I wanted to ask Joe some questions about it, kind of get him on the phone and pick his brain about this protein powder. So, Joe, thanks for coming on the call.
Joe: Hey. It's great to be here, Ben. Thanks for having me back.
Ben: Yeah. No problem. So, before we launch into this, kind of quick overview of Mt. Capra. What is Mt. Capra Wholefood Nutritionals? What do you guys do?
Joe: Yeah. Thanks for that. Thanks for asking. So, Mt. Capra is a business, it's a wholefoods supplement manufacturing company. And it was founded kind of initially all the way back in 1928. So, we just kind of passed the 80-year mark.
Joe: Yeah. No kidding. But we've been taking for the past a little over 80 years, we've been taking goat milk and we've been turning it into basically, supplements. For a little while there back in the 80's, we were doing goat cheese. We kind of moved away from that, although it's definitely been something that we still get calls on, people wanting to know where the goat cheese is. Maybe one of these days, we'll make up a batch. But, yeah. So, Mt. Capra really specializes in the holistic, very low-processed goat milk supplements.
Ben: Okay. Cool. You have a protein powder that I've used quite a bit in the past. It's called Mt. Capra Double-Bonded Protein. And the reason that I've been using it and kind of suggesting it to people to use is because it's processed in a very friendly way, and I'll let you talk about that in a second, but it's also derived from these goat milk proteins which as you've talked about before on the show, are a lot more friendly to our human systems. And also because it's got kind of minimal ingredients in it. When you guys are putting together protein powder, what are you looking at in terms of the way that you actually formulate your powders? What goes into kind of starting with the goats standing out there in the field to the actual canister of powder that someone actually gets?
Joe: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, the design process within these proteins supplements, our first protein supplement in our, kind of the original was a protein supplement called Caprotein, and we still sell that and it's different than the Double-Bonded Protein. But what we were trying to target with the Double-Bonded Protein market was some better taste, some better palatability, and then really focusing more towards kind of the younger generation of the athletes and triathletes as yourself, as well as just all-around people who're looking to put on lean body mass or muscle without a lot of added fat. And one of the kind of pillars that we've always clung to here, even way back several years ago, has been the whole concept of full proteins. In the protein market, a lot of your listeners probably realize this, but there are a variety of different proteins. You can get whey protein isolates, you can get whey protein concentrates, you can get just plain caseins, and they all kind of have their different strengths and weaknesses. Whey protein, for example, is really good at building the muscle.
So, that's a huge component of protein supplement, is the ability to build muscle. But there's also this thing called proteolysis, that is breaking down muscle. And whey protein doesn't inhibit proteolysis at all. And if you're not inhibiting that part of the whole metabolic equation, then you're really going to be losing out. You're going to be gaining muscle, it's going to be two steps forward, one step back. So, we've always gone from a platform of a whole protein because the whey protein stimulates the muscle building at a very rapid, but the casein protein, that other part of the milk protein, the casein protein actually inhibits the proteolysis or that muscle breakdown. So, you kind of get the best of both worlds with the whole protein, and that's what we've done with the Caprotein, that's what we've done with Double-Bonded protein as well.
Ben: Okay. Gotcha. Real quick, before we go into the ingredients of this Double-Bonded Protein and kind of what people should be looking for on the label of a protein powder, you said the word “milk” several times in the past few minutes. I'm personally lactose intolerant, for the most part, and when you're eating a protein powder that's made from goat's milk, is lactose intolerant something that you need to be careful with? Is it something that is less pronounced when you use a protein powder? Is it something you don't need to worry about at all? What's kind of the deal with protein powder made from goat's milk and something like lactose intolerance or a dairy sensitivity?
Joe: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. There's just kind of mounds of research as well as just testimonials, and different types of empirical evidence that show that those that are lactose intolerant in terms of the cow milk market, or in terms of cow milk, or cow milk proteins generally don't seem to have a problem with goat milk lactose. Goat milk does contain lactose in it, it has less lactose, but it still is there. I don't actually know the reason for it, or at least it's still unclear to science, but those who can't handle cow milk protein, cow milk milk can actually handle the goat milk. And so, the Double-Bonded Protein is going to be a fairly low carbohydrate anyway, low lactose anyways. But as far as I can tell with the customer reports we've been having, nobody's taking this stuff and experiencing those kind of nasty side effects of a lactose intolerance. So, if you are lactose intolerant, I would highly recommend this. At least give it a shot. If it doesn't work, at least you know. But we've had a lot of success with this.
Ben: Yeah. And that's something in my case that I've noticed, especially when I was bodybuilding, I did a lot of proteins and this one doesn't give me the gas and the bloating that something like a cow's milk protein has given me in the past.
Joe: Sure. And you know what else, Ben, is that even if you're not lactose intolerant, protein powders, or a lot of the whey protein, whey protein isolates, things like that, they cause bloating anyways, even if you're not lactose intolerant. And the reason for that is that they're not, cow milk protein is not the most digestible protein out there. And so, whenever you have bits of protein that aren't digested, your body's going to kind of react in a way and it's going to produce a gas which is going to cause the bloating, it's going to cause the gas, things like that. And so, that actually is another aspect of the goat milk protein of the Double-Bonded Protein is that it's so well absorbed and so well digested that there really isn't any leftover lactose, leftover proteins to cause any of those side effects.
Ben: Okay. Gotcha. So, I want to get into this protein that I'm using now. First of all, I was using your Mt. Capra Double-Bonded Whey Protein. You sent me this stuff, I tried it, I liked it, but I'd like you to kind of go into the difference between this and that Double-Bonded Protein that I was talking, that I know a lot of listeners take, and kind of what makes this DEEP30 stuff that you sent me, and it's called DEEP30. Is it DEEP Squared 30 or just DEEP30?
Joe: Yeah. We usually refer to it as DEEP30 or DEEP2-30, something like that. But, yeah, DEEP30 is fine and it's actually one of our newest product releases as of late. It came out in 2011. It happens to be one of the supplements that I'm most excited about. It's actually my favorite Mt. Capra supplement because it incorporates three extremely crucial health aspects or concepts into the supplement. The Double-Bonded protein is an excellent, excellent protein supplement. You're going to get a lot of bang for your buck when it comes to supplementing with protein. And so, I enjoy the Double-Bonded. I take that myself. But the DEEP2-30, or the DEEP30 actually has three different modes of action. So, the DEEP actually stands for Daily Essential Electrolytes Protein and Probiotics. So, that's where the 2 on the end of the P comes. But it actually has electrolytes in it. So, it has minerals, it has protein, and it has probiotics. So, you're really getting and even more holistic supplement with this. This is not just for the athlete. Although it's a great fit for the athlete, it's also for, this could be an easy meal replacement or something that you take along with your meal to help with satiety issues. But what it actually has going for it is the three pillars, like I talked about, it's got the essential mineral, electrolyte support. And a lot of…
Ben: When you say essential mineral and electrolyte support, does that just mean you're adding salt to this? Or what do you mean by that?
Joe: Yeah. Good question. Let me clarify that. Goat milk especially is very high in natural, what we call, bioorganic minerals, meaning that they're food-based minerals. In fact, I could supply you or listeners with a mineral assay of all of our minerals that are found naturally in goat's milk. And so, what we've done, what Mt. Capra has done is we've concentrated those minerals into a mineral supplement. The mineral supplement itself, we actually have put into this product. And so, it actually has over 20 different minerals in it, a lot of potassium, a lot of magnesium, phosphorus, those kinds of minerals. And even sodium, and I know sometimes people's ears perk up at sodium 'cause it's kind of a dirty word. But food-based sodium, food-based minerals in general are often just accepted and assimilated by the body far better than the synthetic minerals that have been mined from the Earth, that kind of thing. So, that's the first part of the DEEP30 is the daily essential electrolytes. And like I said, I can definitely supply your listeners with an entire list of all of them. But that's kind of the first part.
And the reason why that is so important is that a lot of Americans lack these minerals and electrolytes in their diet. There's actually a ratio of your potassium to sodium, and the ration should be about 5:1, meaning for every five milligrams of potassium, you should get one milligram of sodium. For a lot of Americans, that's flipped. They get one milligram of potassium to five milligrams of sodium. And folks, the potassium is where a lot of the health-stimulating effects of these minerals are going to be coming from. So, this is a great supplement, high in potassium, and that's kind of the first concept behind DEEP30. Then the second one is you actually get the specific amino acid maintenance. And what that is is it's more of this whole protein within the supplement. So, kind of the whole protein powder you're finding in the Double-Bonded, you're going to find that same high quality protein in the DEEP2-30 as well. And in fact, the protein levels are almost, not quite, because it's got the minerals and the probiotics in, but the protein levels are almost as high in the DEEP2-30 as they are in the Double-Bonded. So, you really get a lot of bang for your buck with this product.
Ben: Okay. Cool. I've been eating it everyday, by the way. I'm kind of addicted to it. It tastes really good.
Joe: I should mention right now that Mt. Capra, historically, hasn't always produced the most delicious of products. And the reason behind that is because we're really big believers in low-processing techniques. We actually use kind of a cutting-edge technology known as refractance window drying, where the product is actually laid out on a belt, about 40-foot belt and the water underneath it is only about 110, 120 degrees. But by the time it gets from the beginning of the belt to the end of the belt, the product is dry. And so, we're able to dry the product with using very, very low temperature. And so, because of that, we try to keep additives completely out of our products entirely. And so, because of that, a lot of our products in the past haven't been as delicious maybe the mainstream one you'd find at Walmart. But this DEEP2-30, and, Ben, you can give 'em your opinion as well, is the best-tasting product I've had from Mt. Capra. That's for sure.
Ben: Yeah. I mean, I was taking the Mt. Capra Double-Bonded Protein, the chocolate stuff that you guys had, and usually I'd mix it with stuff like coconut milk, or almond butter, or put in some oatmeal, or that type of thing, and I'm not really sure how you guys did this, but this DEEP30 tastes kind of like a Wendy's Frostee in a coconut, banana, or a strawberry flavor. It tastes good. That's probably the biggest complaint I heard about the Mt. Capra Double-Bonded, 'cause I recommended it to a ton of people. They like it, it doesn't cause a lot of the gas and the bloating that a lot of protein powders can cause, and this stuff even less by the way, but didn't taste all that great to people. And this stuff tastes a lot better. So, one of the things that I thought was really interesting when you sent this over was it's got an actual probiotic kind of spore in it, a live organism that you actually got in this protein. And I know that sounds kind of scary, but can you go into how you actually kind of tweaked this protein to help with digestive and immune system performance?
Joe: Yeah. Absolutely. And in fact, the whole spore thing scares your listeners, wait 'til I tell them that it's actually bacteria we're putting in the product. But before you guys freak out too much, it's actually healthy bacteria. There are two different kinds of bacteria. There's the ones that, like E. coli and what not, that make you sick. But then there's a lot, a lot of healthy bacteria out there, probiotics. And we actually market a couple of different probiotic products, just kind of standalone, we have a shelf-stable probiotic and a probiotic that you need to keep in your freezer. But neither of those probiotics were exactly what we wanted in this situation. And Ganeden labs actually is the producer of this particular probiotic, and it's called BC30. It's BC30 and the actual scientific name is Bacillus coagulans. And it's one of the most exciting probiotics I've ever come across because it has all of the effects, all of the great effects of probiotics, but it comes in a spore form.
And what a spore form is it's just basically the bacterial cell is in a hardened structure. It's kind of like a seed. And that seed, or that spore safeguards that cell's genetic material and it protects the cell's genetic material when the product's sitting on a shelf and it's hot out, it protects the genetic material when you're actually putting it in your drink and drinking it down and it's happening to go through your digestive system, which is acidic. So, it's protecting it all the way through there until it hits the small intestine, small and large intestines where the probiotic actually kind of, like a seed, will actually sprout within the gut. And it's at that point that the GanedenBC30 really shines, because it really has a host of benefits that go along with it. Digestive enhancement, immune support just to name a few. I've actually got an entire, just for our latest newsletter and blog post, I wrote an entire article on GanedenBC30 and what it a dynamite probiotic it is.
Your listeners might be interested in reading that as well, but it's an exciting probiotic, and one of the main reasons is the viability rate. When you buy a probiotic from local nutrition store, it's going to be 5 billion, 10 billion, 20 billion, I know our branded probiotic are about those numbers. And the reason why they're so high is that the viability rate is anywhere from 5 to 10%, meaning you take 10 billion probiotics, and if the viability rate is 10%, then 10 million are going to get through. The viability rate with BC30, with this GanedenBC30 is about 98%. And so, the actual probiotic levels are fairly low, but they're low because so many survive the whole transit from the glass to your stomach. So, it's an exciting product. Studies have shown that it delivers about 10 times as many live probiotics to the small intestine than yogurt even. And I love yogurt myself, it's a great food, but this actually can deliver 10 times as many probiotics to the small intestine. The combination of the minerals, the protein, and the probiotics make this a dynamite supplement. That's for sure.
Ben: Yeah. That's what I've been doing is pretty much having it for breakfast. Occasionally, I'll throw a few nuts in there, a little bit of coconut milk, something like that. But, yeah, it's kind of a full meal deal.
Joe: Ben, I'm curious. Which of the three flavors, the Banana Smoothie, Strawberry Splash, or the Coconut Dream, which one of those is your favorite?
Ben: Coconut for sure. I'm a big coconut fan.
Joe: Yeah. That's my favorite as well. They really nailed it with that one.
Ben: Yeah. So, folks, the products that I've used and I recommend from Mt. Capra are really good. This is a small company that's really devoted to high quality ingredients and really shines through in all their stuff. But as Joe mentioned, this one actually tastes good too, which is fantastic. So, I'm going to put a link to this in the show notes. I'm also going to put a link to this specific probiotic strain that Joe was talking about, I'll link over and put his article in there as well. And if you have questions and you're listening into this and you want to know how to use DEEP30, what you'd mix it with, how much you should take per day, et cetera, just go ahead and leave a comment in the show notes underneath this podcast and I'll go ahead and answer your questions. But, again, I really do not like to recommend stuff that I don't personally take and use. Full disclosure, as an athlete, I'm sponsored by Mt. Capra and they're a fantastic sponsor because their stuff actually works for me and this is no exception. So, I would definitely recommend you head over. It's one of those things that you can take with a clear conscience. No artificial sweeteners, no high amounts of carbohydrates or added sweeteners. You're looking at, even down to the food coloring, they use a red beet for the food coloring rather than regular food coloring. The whole meal deal is really safe and tastes really good.
So, Joe, thank you for coming on the call today and sharing about DEEP30 with us.
Joe: Ben, thank you so much for having me! And I look forward to the next time we're going to meet.
If you're wondering how to choose protein powder, this article will help you, because I'm going to teach you about 4 protein powder mistakes you probably don't know you're making. Be sure to download and listen to this protein audio interview too.
Let's start with a quick exercise:
Take a look at the ingredients of the protein powder above (called DEEP30). You can click on the image and read them, or just read below:
Goat Milk Protein, Goat Milk Mineral Whey (electrolytes), Guar/Xanthan Gum Blend, Goat Milk Cream, Stevia, Bacillus coagulans GBI-30 6086 (probiotics).
OK, now check out the ingredients of probably one of the most popular protein powders on the face of the planet – EAS Myoplex:
Whey Protein Concentrate (Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Lecithin), Corn Maltodextrin, Natural & Artificial Flavor, Salt, Whey Protein Isolate, Carageenan, Xanthan Gum, Acesulfame Potassium, and Sucralose.
The difference between these two proteins may seems slight at first, until you take a closer look and see:
1) You Can Make A Mistake With The Protein Source.
The whey protein concentrate source in EAS Myoplex is from cow protein, but the protein source from the DEEP30 is from goat protein. Compared to cow's milk, goat’s milk is less allergenic, naturally homogenized, easier to digest, lactose intolerant friendly, and biochemically and thermodynamically superior to cow’s milk.
I cover the issue with cow's protein in detail in the episode “Cow's Milk vs. Goat's Milk”. In addition, compared to cow products, goat products contain less or none of the growth hormones or antibiotics that massive cow dairies have come to rely upon to turn a profit.
2) You Can Make A Mistake With Added Ingredients Like Soy & Corn.
The EAS Myoplex adds a soy lecithin extract – an “emulsifier” in many foods and supplements that helps the components mix together more thoroughly. Unfortunately, not only is 91 percent of soy grown in the US genetically modified, but soy contains natural toxins known as “anti-nutrients”, a clot-promoting substance that causes your red blood cells to clump together (hemagglutinin), substances that block the synthesis of thyroid hormones (goitrogens), mineral absorption-blocking phytates, plant based phytoestrogens that may cause infertility and may promote breast cancer in women, and high levels of toxic metals aluminum and manganese. I've found that protein powders without the soy lecithin tend to clump slightly easier, but do just as fine if you put them in a blender or shaker.
The corn maltodextrin in the EAS Myoplex is not present in large amounts, but it's a completely unnecessary added carb from another highly genetically modified source. If you want to have carbs with your protein, just toss in a banana – you'll get the fiber benefit with none of the genetic risks.
3) You Can Make A Mistake By Not Checking the Sweetener.
If you take a look at what is actually used as a sweetener, you'll see that EAS Myoplex uses acesulfame potassium, a derivative of acetoacetic acid that has produced tumors in lab animals, and sucralose, a chlorinated sucrose derivative that has been shown to kill up to 50% of the good bacteria in your gut.
In contrast, Mt. Capra's DEEP30 uses a completely natural and safe root-based sweetener – stevia. Personally, I lived on stuff like EAS for years in college and as a bodybuilder and you don't realize how much you were burping up chemicals and nasty fuzzy-thinking and stomach distress until you quit eating it and switch to something natural.
4) You Can Make A Mistake By Stopping At Just Protein.
When you listen to today's audio episode with Joe Stout, a food scientist at Mt. Capra nutrition, you're going to find out the benefit of going above and beyond just protein. EAS Myoplex stops at protein. DEEP30 also includes electrolytes and a probiotic strain called GanedenBC30, which can literally heal your stomach, eliminate abdominal pain and bloating in patients, and strengthen the immune system.
The end result is that you don't feel like you're constipated and bloated a couple hours after you've had your protein shake – and you literally are building a healthier gastrointestinal tract every time you eat your protein. You can also learn more about probiotics in this other interview with Joe: All About Protein, Enzymes & Probiotics.
So here's a quick review:
When you choose a protein powder, look for an organic protein source, zero soy or artificial sweeteners, and added ingredients that help you digest the protein.
I've been using DEEP30 for about 3 weeks now. It tastes a bit like a Wendy's Frosty and far better than Mt. Capra's previous protein powder (Double Bonded Whey). It also results in zero chemically burps, bloating, gas and constipation like other proteins do. I keep all three flavors (Banana, Strawberry and Coconut) in my pantry and just cycle through all three flavors, mixing them with either coconut milk, kefir or yogurt.