November 13, 2021
[00:00:52] Podcast Sponsors
[00:03:40] Guest Introduction
[00:06:19] How Jesse Elder learned the value of true freedom and learning to live with the consequences of one's decisions
[00:29:51] Podcast Sponsors
[00:32:33] Statutory vs. common law and how the legal system has become a weapon of the state
[00:38:02] What to do if and when you get pulled over for speeding
[00:47:28] Fun facts about the IRS and what might happen if you stop filing tax returns
[00:55:38] Resources to begin understanding your rights and sovereignty as an individual
[00:59:57] The significance of your name in ALL CAPS on your birth certificate
[01:01:32] Why the judge is NOT the most powerful person in a courtroom
[01:08:07] Other forms of self-sufficiency Jesse recommends
[01:17:54] Reaching Out to Jesse
[01:20:33] Legal Disclaimer
Ben: On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast.
Jesse: And, I was in a crisis of conscience because I'm teaching people martial arts, but I myself have no idea what to do.
Ben: Part of that is just based on the educational system. I was never taught to line up in a row with all the other little factory workers.
Jesse: Understanding that what I think is the greatest freedom in life is allowing other people to have their own experience. We didn't found this country on a bunch of people who are so easily offended about what might happen and how all this other fragility came in.
Ben: Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living biohacking and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.
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Oh gee, I don't know how long I've known today's podcast guest. Years and years, too many years. What do you think, Jesse? 10 years maybe?
Jesse: I think we're going on a decade, dude.
Ben: Something like that.
Ben: Let's just say a decade because that sounds good. We met in Connecticut. I think it was at one of Michael Fishman's Consumer Health Summits over there where they get a whole bunch of highly influential health people in one room and then throwing a couple jokers like you and me that keep everybody humble. And, I believe that was where you hit it off.
Jesse: That's where you connected. Although I think we might have first met at Jeff Spencer's events in —
Ben: Oh, yeah.
Ben: That's right.
Jesse: Because I remember —
Ben: Briefly in Vancouver.
Jesse: –for a seafood tower.
Ben: You and I punished the tallest sushi tower known. It was you and me and Kevin. Was it Kevin —
Jesse: Kevin Thompson.
Ben: Thompson, and then a copywriter named Colin Chung. I remember that. That was a great meal. Yes.
Jesse: Well, I had no idea who you were. And, I was brand new to this whole online world, but right in the middle of our sushi destruction, there's this group of women that were two tables away and they kept stalking and spying on us. And, one of them came up and like, “[00:04:50]_____ Greenfield?” I was like, “Who is this jerky, he must be famous?”
Ben: That was early on in my social media exploration days when my primary avatars who followed me were triathletes and apparently cougars.
Jesse: Cougar traffic.
Ben: Well, so we met. You're a Texas man now. You live in Austin. You're fellow homeschooler, we can get into that because, I think, that's kind of woven into part of your backstory and possibly why you're just a touch of a rebel now, which is another reason why we're having a call. Your man after my own heart, your self-described millionaire mentor. I know you're a modern-day philosopher. You got all these sick videos, what do you call Mind Vitamin videos.
Jesse: Yeah, Mind Vitamins, very happy incident a few years ago.
Ben: Where do you publish most of your Mind Vitamin videos in case I want to link to that?
Jesse: Yeah, Facebook and Instagram.
Ben: Alright, cool. You're not canceled yet?
Jesse: Not yet. I've been successfully using humor to dodge the sensors.
Ben: Oh, yes. I don't know if that worked for another Austin guy down there, JP Sears. He may have still caught some heat. But anyway, so you have those. And, I'll link to all this stuff. If you guys go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/Elder, which is Jesse's last name, I'll link to all of his Facebook and Instagram and elsewhere. He's a former MMA fighter turned entrepreneur. He's also the author of “The Upgraded Life” or at least I found a bio for you somewhere online, Jesse, that said you were the author of “The Upgraded Life.” Is that a book or is that one of those silly online courses?
Jesse: It was one of those goofy online courses that people buy into their lives. I know.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. Well, you had me confused with author. You should have said creator or designer. I don't know. But anyway, so you've been on this quest to tackle human rights, sovereignty, common law versus statutory law. You've been blowing my mind on all these elements of freedom. The last time that I was in Austin, you and me, and it was after I recorded that podcast with Aubrey Marcus. We were at Aubrey's house with Kyle Kingsbury and a couple other folks. And, man we riffed on what are our actual rights as citizens for quite some time. You had another podcast with Kyle Kingsbury that was pretty good about some of this. And, I'll link to that in the shownotes as well.
But dude, before we dive into that stuff, obviously you're a fellow homeschooled nerd but unlike me, I was refined and a little bit preppy and I got into tennis, and chess, and violin, and a few other notable homeschooling activities, whereas, you started beating people up in bars. So, walk me through your little back story because honestly, I mean, as much as you might be sick of telling it, I think your story, especially for my audience who probably hasn't heard it yet, is actually pretty freaking hilarious, especially your Vaselined up bar fighting scene story.
Jesse: Wow. Yeah, so all of these were very, very unlooked-for sort of things. And, I, oldest of five, born in Austin, grew up in South Texas, very blessed to be born to two parents who somehow figured that I knew better for me than they did. And so, they loved me and they stayed out of my way. Lots of love, never felt abandoned but never really felt guided and directed either. And so, there's a lot of feeling if it was right for me and making up my own mind and experiencing the consequences right or wrong.
Ben: Yeah. That works for some kids. It worked for me. My parents would literally just give me books and walk away and say, “Get these books read.” And, I did fine. My brothers and sisters, I don't know if it worked out as well for them, but yeah, for me, same thing, total loaner, they tell me what I need to learn and I just go learn it.
Jesse: Right, exactly. And, I was very, very appreciative and very appreciative to have had that experience. So, that led to me being into all sorts of different things. I check out every book at the library on snakes or medieval warfare, whatever. And, when I was nine years old, I found martial arts and freaking fell in love with it. It just was really just touched a part of my soul. I loved it. Wasn't very good at it, but I loved it and kept training. And, one day, my instructor says, “Hey, you're going to go do a tournament.” I'm like, “Oh, great.” So, I went, got the crap kicked out of me, 10 years old. But what are you going to do? Tell your instructor no? No. So, I kept going to tournaments, started doing all these little sport, taekwondo, karate tournaments. And, “Karate Kid” came out back in the day. And, next thing, we've got 50 kids in the class and it just kept growing, it was always my thing.
By the time I was 19, I'd done, I don't know how many, hundreds of little tournaments and I've been teaching since I was 15. By the time I was 17, I told my parents, “This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.” Later, I opened a school. But when I was 19 years old, I had an experience that shifted everything because I've been doing it —
Ben: You went through puberty.
Jesse: It's debatable. But I ended up having–there's this girl that I liked, we would go to this house party, and I was completely socially awkward. Arguably, still can be.
Ben: Yeah, I was going to say that. Not much has changed.
Jesse: Yes, just have a beard now. And, beard sometimes are fashionable, so it's sometimes you're cool and sometimes you're not. I don't know how to time that.
Ben: I know, you're talking to a fellow beard wearer now. I get the respect now. You ought to see the cougars these days. They don't even know what to do when I walk in the room.
Jesse: They're literally coming out of your beard.
Ben: That's right.
Jesse: You're just prowling out of the face buzz. So, there's this girl that I like. We're at this house party and there's a guy at this party who is mad dogging and he's giving me the stink eye. And, I go to her, I'm like, “What's that guy's deal?” And, she's, “Oh well, that's my boyfriend.” I'm like, “What?” So, I'm heartbroken, I'm embarrassed, I'm angry. All these 19-year-old hormonal feelings. I'm like, wow. So, I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to leave. So, I go to leave. And, I'm walking down the driveway and all of a sudden this dude just tackles me, jumps on my back, puts me on the pavement and I swear, dude, my first thought is that, “Oh he's going to get disqualified.”
Ben: I know kung fu.
Jesse: Yeah. I'm like, “The referee is not going to stand for this.” That thought lasted about two seconds and then I'm taking punches in the face and I realize, “Oh shit, there's no ref. There's no rules.” All of a sudden, I realize my 10 years of taekwondo training is worthless. I might as well be armed with a paintbrush or finger paints or something. That's how useful that art it was. Luckily, people pulled us apart, we ended up standing up and I got a kick-off, kicked him in the head, he fell, I ran but my world was shattered because all this theory and beautiful technique that I've been learning fell apart in the real world and now is in a crisis of conscience because I'm teaching people martial arts but I myself have no idea what to do. So, that led me to what am I going to do? And, I very luckily had another mentor at the time who was training in jiu-jitsu, crazy jiu-jitsu right before the first UFC. So, this is '92, '93 and he said, “You got to start training this stuff.” So, I did. He convinced me to enter this little tournament in Austin. I did, I won a couple of matches, then I was hooked. I was like, “Wow, this stuff actually makes sense.”
So, fast forward a few months, I'm training, I'm loving it, and I ended up taking it still to this day. It's the only W2 job I've ever had. I was a bouncer at this little dive bar called Sneaker's Nightclub at San Antonio. And, this is a club where bands go to be born or go to die. I mean, there's no in-between–
Ben: Like to literally die? Death by motorcycle gang? That kind of bar?
Jesse: Dude, I did see some Swedish guitar player in the '80s almost coke himself to death. That was pretty interesting. So, I'm in the bar and I'm now 20 and I'm thinking I'm hot stuff, making my 5.50 an hour. It's pretty cool. Kick the occasional drunk person out. And, the promoters of the club decide they're going to have fight nights.
Ben: And, just so I could interrupt real quick, for people who might not be watching a video of you or haven't seen you, you're kind of a skinny ass. You look maybe a skinny starving Texas rancher, not a bouncer.
Jesse: Oh, 100%. Dude, I have literally the same body composition that I did when I was fighting, 6'3, 150 maybe.
Ben: Yeah. You have done a roundhouse kick over my 6-foot 2 head though.
Jesse: I do remember.
Jesse: I do remember. Fueled by sushi. So, here I am at this club and they start having these fight nights. And, they basically just roll this wrestling mat out on the dance floor and they have a clipboard at the bar for people to sign up to fight. And, that was it, there's no waivers, there's no rules, there's no time limit, there's no gloves, no safety equipment, and no weight limit. So, it's literally just a smorgasbord of human beings. Let's get in there and see what happens. Not necessarily legal, but the club is like, “Hey, business is slow on Thursday, people seem to like this fighting thing.” So now, I'm really in a crisis of conscience because I'm teaching martial arts during the day, bouncing at night and I realized I either have to enter this thing or I have to stop teaching because I'm totally out of integrity. I'm like, “Alright, I'll do it.” Scared the heck out of me but I signed up to fight, trained my face off for about a month and a half, and ended up fighting and won both matches that night. And, I was hooked. Not because of the violent aspect, although it's, yeah, I mean it's a baptism, baptism in reality. It's like you find out really, really good how good–you find out fast how good you think you are.
Ben: Yeah, it's pretty damn good rite of passage for a 19-year-old.
Jesse: It was epic, dude. It was epic. And, yeah, and it changed my life because it mostly made me immune to theory that sounded good but turned out to be bullshit when reality hits. And then, that just bled into so many other things that we could talk about. So anyway, I keep fighting almost every week and I really start to make the connection between my mindset, and what I'm focused on, and what I'm reading, and am I meditating, and how am I breathing, and nutrition. All these things. And, I started to get into visualization. I started to explore my faith on a very active practical level, not just–I was baptized Catholic, but I had way too many questions and anyway. So, I start doing these fights, end up winning all these fights like one week after the next. Almost every week I'm fighting and I'm winning.
There's another guy who keeps winning, and winning, and winning. And, everybody starts to get real excited in town because like, “Oh man, these guys are going to match up. This is going to be the grand finale.” And, I'd seen this guy fight before. He had probably 35, 40 pounds on me which concerned me because I'd seen him just destroy–I've watched him fight one guy in these Thursday night fights and the fight literally lasted four seconds. The referee was like, “Ready, go. And, stop! Fight is over.” I mean, the guy got just a straight right to the face, went down and they carried him out. So, I'm training for this guy. I know that my only chance is to get him on the ground.
Ben: Yeah. You've seen him fight before and jiu-jitsu come in handy.
Jesse: Yes, exactly. And, especially back then, hardly anybody knew jiu-jitsu. So, it's the land of the blind. The one-eyed man is king and that was me. So, fight night shows up and I have not slept properly for probably two, three days leading in the fight. I'm so nervous, but I'm committed, I'm in, let's go.
So, I drive my head this little crappy Mazda RX-7, sometimes started, sometimes didn't, parked on a hill. That was my early days. Drive this jalopy park in the back of the club, have my bag, walk in the back door and it's the wildest smell, man. It's a nightclub. So, it's beer and cigarettes. But now, they've had all these fights. And so, it's blood and sweat, and Tiger Balm, and BENGAY, and more beer, and pretty sure you know that there's people that had sex recently somewhere in that club. And so, it's just —
Ben: Somebody's got to start selling that as a locker room clone, somebody buy it.
Jesse: I'm telling you, man, we can bring that in in a big way. I don't know what it'd be called, but —
Ben: I'd call it “funk.”
Jesse: The funk. Yeah. And, the affiliate program is sick. It's going to be epic. So, I walk in, it's just incredible smell, lots of adrenaline. Pretty soon, I'm warming up and they call my name. And, they're like, “In this corner, Jesse Elder.” And, I come out and they're blasting Van Halen, it's my fight song. I come out there and then it's quiet. And then, they announced this guy's name, I'll never forget his name, Alan Croft. “Alan Croft” and everybody starts cheering. And, the place is packed. It's fire code says you can have 300 people. There's way more than that, and it's my students, my friends, my family, my parents, my baby sister, everybody in my life is here to watch this big night. So, the guy comes out and I'm in the ring. By now, we have these little four-ounce gloves on. And, I have my jiu-jitsu gi. I think I'm always crazy. I'm ready to go.
The referee real quick, he's like, “Alright, you ready, you ready? You guys know the rules.” There really aren't any. So, just make a good match. So, I'm circling and I'm waiting for the bomb because I know this guy's going to drop a bomb. And, if he hits me, it's lights out. And, the guy's got 40 pounds on me, no way, I can take a shot like that. And so, I'm just waiting, waiting, waiting. Sure enough, it's like watching all the tide goes out, tsunami's coming in. I see his body shift back, he loads up, sure enough, here comes that bomb. And, I've been training for it. I mean, I had guys that I was training with and I'm like, “Hit me” literally fight club. “I want you to hit me in the face.” And so, I would train, work with these guys who try and punch me in the face and I would shoot in, shoot in over and over again. So, I felt good about that. This guy loads up, here comes, boom, he launches this bomb, and it was, dude, there's slow motion, just like training, dove under, get the clinch.
Ben: So, you shoot after he throws?
Jesse: Yeah. As he's throwing. Really like a wave. If you've ever been in rough surf, don't let the wave hit you. You can dive under it and you miss the brunt of the force, same thing with the punch, get under the punch, get to the body, get under the arm, tie him up. So, I'm now inside and I remember feeling a tiny flash of relief because that was the hardest part of the match. So, I thought. And, the guys that I trained with, a lot of Brazilian guys, they had this sort of chilling saying they said, “When we fight, we will get to the clinch. When we get to the clinch, we will go to the ground. You are in my world then because the ground is the ocean and I am the shark, and you don't even know how to swim.”
Ben: I appreciate that too. Having two sons who are immersed in jiu-jitsu multiple times a week. I get it.
Jesse: Yeah, totally. So, that was my confidence. Every other person I fought, I'd taken to the ground or let them take me to the ground and it was over. They were helpless. So, I'm now clinched and I'm like, “The worst part is over, I'm going to get this guy down, I'm just going to calm down, chill, let him make mistakes. I'm going to tap this guy out, we're good to go. So, by now, they've also got rounds, so we're doing five-minute rounds.
So, I clinch, I've got this guy in and it's a matter of time until he missteps. I've got all my weight on him, all 150 pounds on him waiting to sweep in. I'm in there. And, this dude is strong. I mean, he's given everything he can. And, I'm just tucked in holding, holding, holding, holding. But then, I start to realize I'm losing my grip, which is weird because I train properly, right?
Jesse: But I'm losing my grip. I'm like, “What's going on?” And dude, then it hits me as I have my face pressed against this guy's ribs and I'm holding him tight, but my hands are slipping. I'm like, “What is going on?” And then, I smell that his body is coated in Vaseline. His corner had literally covered grease because they knew I was going to shoot in. They knew I was going to take him down.
Ben: They'd been watching you too.
Jesse: Totally. So now, I'm like, “Oh, this is a variable.” I do not know anything about. I'm slipping. And, sure enough, man, my fingers open up, the guy pushes stiff arms me and cracks me. And, it was one of the hardest shots I've ever taken. I didn't go down, but I was rocked, I was rung, I covered, the guys all over me, somehow managed to clinch again. I'm eating shots, we finally end up on the ground and I mean, this is just training, I don't remember it happening, but I ended up getting him in a triangle choke. And, the guy's standing up, he's trying to stack me, he's trying to pound me but I'm putting this triangle on for everything I've got. And, I'm trying to pop the guy's head off of his body because I know that if I don't, it's not going to be pretty. So, I've got this guy, I'm literally watching his hand raised to tap and the freaking whistle blows. Round is over. So, they stand us up. And, I treated that like it was the last round. So, I'm gassed. And, we go back in, round two, and it was just a disaster. Man, I kept shooting somehow, I kept —
Ben: Kept slipping off.
Jesse: Exactly, I kept managing to clinch. He would just stiff-arm me, crack me, and start again. So, every time, it's like Street Fighter, my power meter is just getting lower and lower and lower. At the end of the second round, he ends up mounting on top of me about to just unleash and the whistle blows. I'm like, “Oh.” So, after three rounds of this, I just can't get the guy, I'm gassed, I have nothing left. I've eaten so many shots and matches over, they raised his hand, I go to sit back down and my corner is pissed. He broke the rules. I'm like, “There's no rules to break.” So, it's like, “Good on you, man. Way to find the advantage.”
Jesse: But dude, I was in a bad shape, man. I couldn't see, the blackness kept coming in and out and I could hardly breathe. So, I told my coroner, I said, “Hey, you need to take me to the hospital.” So, they take me to the hospital. And, so many people came with me. My family was there, which everybody watched this beating take place. It was awful. And, I thought this was going to be the best night of my life. This is like the homeschooled kids' equivalent of being the homecoming king. It didn't happen that way.
So, I'm in the hospital. They do X-rays. Doctor comes in and he says, the reason why you can't breathe is because your left lung is collapsed. I'm like, “Alright.” So, I'm sitting there, up until that–I mean, that point of my life is the greatest test of faith I'd ever experienced because I thought I had everything right. I aligned myself, I was a good person, I was doing good in the world, I'm teaching class, I'm working with kids and families, and I'm a good son, I'm a good brother. It's all this stuff yet I just got destroyed. And, it just didn't make sense to me.
So, I'm laying there, I'm in extreme physical pain. I'm breathing through a coffee stirrer just like these little sips of oxygen. And, also to add to this, I'm looking out through the door and I can see through these little swinging doors out in the lobby. And, the lobby is packed. Man, it's packed with my family. And, I haven't thought about this in a long time. Yeah, my parents are there, my brothers, my sister, my students, my friends, everybody had come. And, it was through these little swinging doors, I could just read their faces and it was every emotion you can imagine. It's concern, and anger, and fear. And, there's just this so many emotions.
And, I remember sitting there in the hospital bed and I just wish that I could tell them like, “I chose this. One way or the other, I'm going to be okay.” And, I was feeling so bad that they were feeling bad for me. And, I just wanted so much to just let them know that like, “I chose this. This was my choice.” And, that was one of my early experiences and I'm just understanding that what I think is the greatest freedom in life is allowing other people to have their own experience.
Jesse: And, that was really hard for me to see my family and friends in so much pain because they thought I was in so much pain when really as far as I was concerned, yes, physical pain, but I'm just kind of having this evolutionary experience and I'm down for it. So, it was a rough night and some other spiritual very, very powerful things happened that night. I essentially talked to God and I got to feel that I have a body but I'm not my body. And, I was looking there at the lights in the hospital, these fluorescent lights. And, all of a sudden, it just, I don't know, it's like revealed to me that that light, that bulb is illuminated because of the energy that's flowing through it. But when you turn the switch off, the energy withdraws from the bulb but nothing happens to the energy, it's just not shining through the bulb. And, all of a sudden it hits me. That night, 20 years old in the hospital bed, that's what this body is. It's illuminated by the spirit, by the soul, but when this is done and that soul withdraws and goes back home, then the body just–that's like a bulb, you just turn the bulb off. And, that's not the human anymore. That's not the essence of the being, it goes somewhere else. And, I really lost my fear of death that night. I stopped believing in death.
Jesse: Just like another —
Ben: Most people will take ibogaine for a near-death experience. And, you hacked it through a Vaseline-smeared Street Fighter. But that's a good way to do it. And, I know that you obviously went through a lot in that experience that I understand based on your explanation. It was probably pretty formative to just the way you view life now especially this idea of giving people their own space, which you needed as you were there in the hospital room kind of finding yourself or at least a different piece of yourself. And, I know that there's plenty we want to talk about today when it comes to freedom, and common versus statutory law, and how to stand up for your rights. And, whereas, I know the rest of your story is intriguing. You went on and, I guess, briefly don't let me put words in your mouth. But you continued to run all these dojos and everything.
Jesse: I did. Yeah, I was 20 years old, bounced for a couple more months, left because I felt the violence starting to be contagious. I started looking for trouble where there wasn't any. And, that wasn't good for my psyche. So, I quit, ended up opening my first school when I was 23. No idea what I was doing but kept applying this philosophy of training. It's only results matter. So, I learned to communicate in a way that caused people to enroll and made it about them and not me. And, all this basic business stuff ended up training my staff and at our peak. When I sold, we had eight schools, we had a consulting company. And, it was awesome and we're making a few million bucks a year which, to me, was mind-blowing for martial arts.
Ben: It's pretty good for martial arts dojos.
Jesse: Yeah, yeah, we were the most profitable schools in the world.
Jesse: And, we had great business partners. And, I was very happy to apply a lot of the things that I learned from martial arts training into sales and marketing, and communication, and helping. Because our staff was very young, 18, 19, 20-year-old kids like I was. And, I wasn't going to subsidize their teaching lifestyle by enrolling a bunch of students. So, I just told them from the very beginning, “Look, if you think you're a good instructor, go enroll somebody.” Anybody can teach a class. Not to diminish the art, but teaching is the fun part. The work is recruitment and enrollment. How good are you at communicating, and influence, and persuasion?
So, a whole body of work developed around that, and we had kids in high school who were making more than their principal. I'm not saying teachers make a lot, but they were based on merit. They were based on actual results. So, when I sold the schools, I really didn't know what I was going to do next, I just knew that that pendulum had swung as far as it could. So, I sold the schools and then immediately had a bunch of emotional bandwidth open up, and I realized that the relationship that I've been in for 11 years, marriage of 10, was functionally over. And, we just had such core values differences. And, there's a lot that was involved there, but we worked at it, but it was clear, it wasn't going to work. So, I ended up selling my business that I'd had my whole life. And then, six months later was divorced.
And, in 2013 was totally starting over again. And, that was a whole other evolutionary experience to go from having all this comfort, and notoriety, and industry, prestige, and impact, and you're getting all your needs met, and all of a sudden, next thing you know, nobody knows who you are. I don't even know who I am. Zero of my old life and literally starting over again.
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I know that you've traveled around the world, you and I have run into each other multiple locations all over the planet, including freaking, what was that European country we wound up in?
Jesse: Yeah, Bulgaria.
Ben: Yeah, Bulgaria. We spoke in Bulgaria and some cement warehouse type of play all over the place. And, you were teaching people how to be successful, how to make money, how to start your careers, how to do a lot of the stuff that you became to be an expert in. But then, you and I didn't run into each other for a few years. And then, I kind of sort of heard some waves coming from your direction the past couple of years, particularly since the pandemic when we've been a little bit more concerned about our freedom and standing up for our rights, and then had dinner with you down there in Austin. I was like, “Holy cow.” What intrigued me, what sucked me in right away that maybe would be a good place to kind of get people, allow people to kind of wrap their heads around the kind of stuff you're talking about now is you basically given a very simple scenario of what to do if you got pulled over by a police officer? I think that was the story that you were telling. And, maybe that'd be a good way to explain what it is that you're up to now. I mean, why are you even telling us about this almost script that you'd use if you got pulled over?
Jesse: Very quick context. Back in February of this year, at the time this recording 2021, for whatever reason, I began to be attracted to the law and I started studying law. And, I just found it fascinating. I was being a kid again like, “Oh, I'm reading every book in the library about medieval warfare except this time it's about law, history of law, law forms, all that.” And, I was obsessed and I was laughing at myself like, “Dude, you've never really cared about this.” All of a sudden, I just couldn't get enough. So, I put about 350 hours of study in over the next couple of months and found that there are so many things that we don't know that are not necessarily secrets, not like they're being suppressed but they're certainly not being taught. And, I just started to connect with people and learn from people who had been applying very specific remedies to their specific situation. Everything from mask stuff to the magic potion, to job stuff, to taxes.
And, I met a dude who in Florida, Steve Emerson, who realized that property taxes are illegal. It is against the law for the government to charge you tax on your home, the place that you live. So, he studied the Florida Constitution where he is. He studied the United States Constitution, found all his case law, went to the Tax Office, and said, “I demand that you remove my property from the tax rolls.” And, they did.
Ben: Like how?
Jesse: I mean, it's so much stuff that we just accept, oh, this is what you have to do, but it's not.
Ben: But it's a whole different form of law. It's called common law, right?
Jesse: American equity law or common law.
Ben: Versus what we're used to, which would be statutory law, right?
Jesse: Yeah. Statute law, civil codes, criminal codes, exactly. I'll give you an example in full disclaimer here. I'm skirting close to the edge of my comfort with my own integrity because these are things that I know of. Very little have I actually applied outside of some mask stuff, which has been entertaining.
Ben: I'd love to hear a little bit more about that later on, too.
Jesse: Oh, dude, I have some new stuff that I can't wait for the lockdowns to be tried again in Texas. I'm ready to go. But anyway, so here's the way this law form, this country, America was founded on a law firm called common law, American equity law. And, it specifically states at least in the Texas Constitution, and every state has its version, that every court must be a court of record, that is a specific type of court where there is a magistrate, there is a clerk, and they have the ability to bring a jury in. And so, they are bound by common law to follow due process.
And, here's how due process works, what this country is founded on. Very simple. There must be an injured party who can prove or is willing to testify with particularity that on this particular day at this particular time, so and so injured or damaged me or my property. And, they go before the magistrate, they go before the clerk, magistrate says, “Alright. By the way, are you indemnified? Are you going to bond this claim? Because if you're wrong, then you're going to be liable for damages and everything.” And, the person says, “Yes, I'm ready to step up.” That's due process. And, that still exists, it's still a long one. But what has happened is, we've added on, well, we haven't done it, but it's been done so many extra forms of law have been added on statutes, codes, civil codes, criminal codes, which is basically sort of weaponized the legal system for monetary gain. And, it's all a money game. Because if you can–just like the church back in the middle ages was inventing sins faster than they could and people could keep up with them.
Ben: Right. So, you could pay to have your sins forgiven.
Jesse: Right, right, right. The Catholic Church owned fisheries, and they realize sales are down, so what do they do? They make it a sin to eat meat on Friday, sales go up. I mean, it's not even that —
Ben: So, in the U.S., what would be an example of that, of using law for monetary gain?
Jesse: Well, check this out. That's a great question and it's very simple. If there's no victim, is there a crime?
Ben: There's no victim. Is there a crime? Well, I don't know if I were speeding down the highway. Let's say it's 55 and I'm going 80, I mean theoretically, if I get pulled over by a police officer, isn't that considered to be a crime for me to be going 80 and a 55?
Jesse: Well, under statute law, it is. But we have to go back to common sense and go back to actual natural law. Is there a victim? Has anybody been harmed? Now, I'm not talking about if you drive past a little lady who's doing 50 and you buzz by her at 80, well, that's —
Ben: So, it's not a crime to stress somebody out. But you mean, did I actually hit somebody or cause an accident or something that? Let's say in this case, no.
Jesse: Right. If there is no damage, then there is no crime. And, see this is what the country is found on. We didn't found this country on a bunch of people who are so easily offended about what might happen and how all this other fragility came in. You would have been laughed out of town if you were to say, “He offended me.” Or, you go to the person directly and you back-to-back —
Ben: Oh, he was riding his horse too fast down the road.
Jesse: Right, right. He could have killed me, did he? No. Then, toughen up buttercup. I mean, this is founded on a very resilient —
Ben: I don't understand it. If a cop pulls me over and I'm speeding on the highway, I mean, aren't I issued a ticket? Don't I have to go pay it?
Ben: What do you do, Jesse, if you get pulled over today? What are you going to say?
Jesse: So, if I get pulled over, of course, my hands are going to be on the wheel. There's no need to stress them out further than they already are. But the cop comes up and I roll the window down and I say, “Hello, sir. What is your emergency?”
Ben: “What is your emergency?” you're saying to the cop.
Jesse: Say it to the cop. What is your emergency? Because they've got their lights on and those lights are emergency lights. They're going to be used for an emergency and they are to signal you to get out of the way so that they can go to the emergency.
Jesse: So, it's been bastardized to get you to kind of be scared and all that. And, the cop will say something like, “Do you know why I pulled you over?” And, if you start playing the game and you start saying, “Oh, I guess, I was going too fast,” or “No, I don't. Why don't you tell me all this kind of stuff?” You're already starting to tiptoe into their territory, their statute territory. So, instead, and this could be for speeding, it could be for–I just did it with the IRS kind of entertaining. But anytime somebody's making a claim that you've broken a law, what they're trying to do is bring you into their jurisdiction. They're trying to bring you into their world of fiction. Rather than being drawn into their world of fiction, you invite them or demand that they produce proof that they have jurisdiction over you. So, in this example, the cop pulls you over and, “Good evening, officer. What is your emergency?” And, here's what you were doing.
There's a lot of ways that this can go. If it's a traffic ticket, a speeding ticket, all these kind of tickets, if there's no injured party, there's no crime. These tickets are basically offers of contract. They are making you an offer to give them money. And, it would be like if you and I went to that sushi restaurant and we ordered a bunch of pizza. I order pizza and they say, “Well, we don't have pizza.” “But I order you to give me pizza.” “You're in the wrong restaurant. We don't have pizza here.” So, if I get a parking ticket which I've gotten tons, especially on my motorcycle for some reason, parking tickets, these are offers of contract. They come from a vending machine corporation based out of somewhere else that this municipal corporation known as this are doing business as the city of Austin has created this fictitious thing that I now owe them money because I parked my personal transport on a block of pavement that they drew an imaginary circle around and said I owe them money. I did not sign any contract agreeing to that. That is unlawful.
Ben: Well, I want to interrupt you just a second. And then, I want to hear more about what you would say if you got pulled over and continue that kind of script, that interaction with the officer. But when we're born and we get our birth certificates or we become, I guess, obligated to adhere to these contracts, isn't that part of what we've agreed to from birth is to be a part of that contract?
Jesse: Good. Dude, I'm so glad you brought this up because this is a huge misconception. This actually took me about 150 hours to untangle myself from. Yes, there's a birth certificate that is created. Yes, it's in your all-caps name. They may be using that as collateral on some global market, all of that. But here's the thing, and this is what I found that gives me tremendous peace of mind. First of all, any contract that is enforced or assumed that you didn't enter into is fraud. And, there is no statute of limitations on fraud. And so, the moment someone presumes to administer my property, meaning to control me, control my business, control my money, control my life rather than try and untangle my status and do all this other stuff, I don't deal with ghosts. I don't deal with fictions. I don't deal with corporations. I am a man. I am a natural living being and I only deal with natural living beings. I do not deal with fictions. I don't deal with corporations. I don't deal with fairy tales.
So, in the event of some agent of a corporation presuming to direct me or my property, their premise is that I've injured the state. Okay, well is that Mr. or Mrs. State? Where's the injured party? Show me the verified claim. Well, you violated this law. Okay, show me where it says that I, Jesse Elder, am subject to that law. Show me where it says. Well, you're a citizen of the United States. Show me where it says on the city of the United States. I am a man residing in the geographic area known as Texas, the geographic area known as the United States of America but show me where it says that I am bound to obey your statute laws, your statute codes. And, there's no proof of that. There's absolutely no proof. Yes, I reside in this area, but show me a contract where it says that I'm signed with my signature that I agree to abide by these corporate rules. This is a homeowners' association. I didn't sign any of that.
Ben: So, back to the police officer. You asked the police officer, “What crime have I committed officer? What's your emergency, officer?”
Jesse: Yeah, “Officer, what is your emergency? How can I help you?” And, he says, “Well, you're going 80 and a 55.” Okay, I wouldn't say anything. It's up to him or her. And, they start saying, “I'm going to have to give you a ticket,” da, da, da, all this stuff. For me, I love the path of least resistance. So, I'm not going to stand there and argue with the cop who's got a gun on the side of the road, don't give me the ticket. What will happen is I'll take the ticket, I will then file or send an affidavit of status. I will send that to the magistrate, send that to the court, send it to the grand jury if I need to, and basically say, “You've got the wrong guy.”
Ben: What's an affidavit of status?
Jesse: Affidavit of status is a kick-ass little document. It basically has 14 different paragraphs in there and it says, “I, Jesse Elder, am a man residing in the geographic area known as Austin, state of Texas, et cetera. However, I am not, nor have I ever been a subject resident citizen taxpayer at all of the municipal corporations doing business as city of Austin, state of Texas, county of Travis or United States of America.” That's one of the paragraphs. Another paragraph goes on to say that I'm created by God and therefore only God can minister my property. I am the property of no man, that is slavery. It cites all sorts of specifics in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And, basically ends by saying, “If anyone can prove that any of the statements made in this affidavit are materially false enough for me to change or amend this affidavit, then they have 10 days to submit in affidavit form proving their claim that this is a false document. Failure to do so implies consent.”
Ben: Where'd you get an affidavit of status for?
Jesse: Dude called Alphonse Faggiolo. This dude is a —
Ben: Alphonse Faggiolo.
Jesse: Yeah, A-L-
Ben: Does he have a website?
Jesse: His website is very, very clutch. It's iamhassentmetoyou.
Jesse: Yeah, it's the clunkiest —
Ben: iamhassentmetoyou. Alright, I'll hunt down any resources for me listening. I'll put these in the shownotes. So, Alphonse's website. I think you actually told me about this website before. It's got all these different forms and all these. It's kind of clunky to get through but it's got information about all this stuff and how to navigate through getting pulled over or the property tax situation. But it seems kind of clunky.
Jesse: The website is clunky. But Alphonse has got a great process, six-step process, affidavit of status, mail fraud, notice of liability, notice the claim. You basically go on offense with these turkeys and you basically say, “Who are you to dock at my door and presume ownership over me?” That's not how it works.
I'll give you another funny example. So, last time I filed taxes was 2014, mostly because I just want to see what happens.
Ben: What happens if you don't file your taxes?
Jesse: Yeah. I mean, okay, what happens. And, I'm very cognizant of the fact that I'm in a position in my life at this particular chapter where I don't have dependence. I mean, I help my mom out and stuff like that, but I don't have kids. I'm not in a partnership at this moment. I own some land and stuff, but it's not like I've got a ton of debts that I need to service. And so, I'm like, “I want to see what happens.” So, I just stopped filing taxes. And, they send some love letters with a nice green stripe on the envelope and it's like, “Oh you, blah, blah, blah.” Oh, my god, we'll see.
Last year, I, in a moment of weakness, paid a lawyer 10,000 bucks. I'm like, “Hey, just in case we get any more letters, can you handle it?” So, I give him power of attorney. Don't hear anything from him for months. Guy calls me, this is four months ago at the time of this recording, maybe five months, and he says, “Mr. Elder, this is attorney, blah, blah, blah, we've got a notice from an examination officer from the IRS that looks like they want to audit you, and you have to fill out all this paperwork, da, da, da.” I said, “Alright, send me what they got.” So, I get this form, and dude, I don't mean this unkindly, but it's like a mentally damaged chimpanzee made this spreadsheet, it's incredible. There's four different font sizes, it's all over the place. I'm like, “This is a government document? Okay.” And, it says all these stupid questions like, what's your title? So, I write, “I'm the guy that gets shit done.” How many hours do you work? “Only the ones I want to.” How much money did your business make this year? “More than last year.” What accounting form do you use? I'm like, “No, idea.” Dude I just lost interest. I'm like, “Who are these people?”
So, by the way, this is not just me being flippant or rebellious. Through my studies, I've found that the internal revenue service is a for-profit debt collection agency founded in 1933 based in Puerto Rico.
Ben: Puerto Rico.
Jesse: Yes. Debt collection is under Title 15 of the U.S. Code/ Internal Revenue is under Title 26. So, anytime you get a letter from the IRS, you're actually dealing with a debt collection agency, which is bound by federal and state laws. And, they're already violating at least three laws just by threatening you through the mail. It's amazing. Not only that, but there is literally no federal law saying you must pay income tax. There is no law anywhere that says that an individual has to pay tax on their stuff.
Ben: I mean, real quick, why more people not know this?
Jesse: Well, fear, mostly, and a heavy, heavy amount of conditioning. So, when Aubrey gave me shit about it, he's like, “Oh, good luck. You're going to be like Wesley Snipes.” See, that's the meme that shows up in people's mind. That's the thought that's planted. Do what you're told and then justify it.
Ben: Unless you're homeschooled and you grew up not having to put the square peg in the square hole in the round peg in the round hole, and figure out problems and solutions for yourself, which I'm actually not joking. I've found that I have a probably higher degree of resistance to authority or at least questioning if the way things are being done are actually the way they should or could be done. I think part of that is just based on the educational system. I was never taught to line up in a row with all the other little factory workers.
Jesse: Ben, you nailed it. And, the educational system itself is so [BLEEP] that it was–that's a whole other rabbit I wouldn't go down to. But anyway, I send this form back to the lawyer. I'm like, “Hey, before I go any further, I really need some clarity. I need to know who this individual is that is presuming to administer me and my property.” So, I said, “Here's six questions that I want you to ask them before I can go any further.” So, I sent the questions. I'll read them out in a minute. The lawyer emails me right back, he's like, “Mr. Elder, I can't represent you if you're going to challenge the tax code.” I emailed him back and said, “Brother, I'm not challenging anything, I'm requesting clarifications that I can make a pure determination about who is this human being that I'm dealing with because I have no idea who this person is. I've never met this person in my life. I don't know if they have any authority over me. That's what I'm asking for.”
And, the questions were really simple. Number one, “Am I the property of you or your employer?” Yes or no. Number two, “What is the name of your employer?” Seems like a fair question. Number three, “Is my body mine or is my body under control of you or your employer?” Next. “Have I consented or signed with my signature any obligation or contract where I've relinquished my rights to you or your employer?” Yes or no. “Have I consented or fixed my signature to any obligation or contract agreeing to be governed by your laws, your statutes, and your codes?” Yes or no. “Do you have a verified claim to bring to me from a man or a woman claiming that I have damaged them or violated their rights in any way?” Yes or no. And then, finally, “Under what authority are you administering my property?”
Ben: Did you get these questions off of that guy's website, off of Alphonse's website?
Jesse: I found that from some other rabbit hole that I drove down from [00:52:41]_____ who was faced with some officer agent from the IRS. Called into the guy's office, sits down in the office and they're ready to give him the third-degree audit and threatened him, all this kind of stuff. And, he said, “Before we go any further, I need you to answer these questions.” He pushes the paper across the desk to the agent. Agent reads it, looks back at the guy like ashen faced, takes the guy's file, puts it away, and says, “Please leave.”
Jesse: Again, full disclosure. I don't know what's going to happen. I might be rising in the ranks here.
Ben: Have you had to do this with a police officer before?
Jesse: No. No, no, no. I have great rapport with cops. I love cops for the most part. I recognize I'm saying that as a White American male. There's all sorts of —
Ben: What if you're walking through the airport and somebody asked you to put a mask on, Jesse?
Jesse: Oh, dude, that's happened many times.
Ben: What do you say?
Jesse: Happened a couple months ago. The guy appeared out of nowhere like the butler in Mr. Deeds.
Ben: They always do.
Jesse: Yeah. He's like, “Whoa.” I was like, “Whoa, you're quick.”
Ben: They're very, very attentive these days. Now, when you need your peanuts in your water two years ago, but now, yeah.
Jesse: I know, I know. So, this guy shows up and he was not a police officer, he was airport security. So, it's going to be totally different authority but still had a gun, taser, vest, sunglasses, the whole thing. So, he shows up and he's like, “You need to wear a mask.” And, of course, he's wearing a mask, so I just looked at him and I said, “I can't understand what you're saying with that thing on your face.” And, he's like, “You need to wear a mask.” I said, “I need to read your lips.” I said, “I can't see what you're saying.” So, he pulled the thing down. Now, we're on equal footing.
Ben: So, he takes his mask off.
Jesse: And, let's see, there's compliance. Now, I'm creating for him to jump through. He says, “You need to wear a mask.” I said, “No, I'm good. Thank you.” And, he says, “You need to wear a mask.” I said, “Brother, I understand your job is to tell me to wear a mask. And, you've now done that, you've done your job, you've done it twice. I'm happy to give you five-star review. I mean, you're nailing your job here, but I'm not going to wear a mask. You cannot make me wear a mask.” He's like, “You need to wear a mask or I'm going to escort you out of here.” And, I said, “Well, here's the way that works. The moment you touch me, that's battery and that is a felony. And, in fact in Texas, to obstruct someone's breathing by covering their nose or mouth is a second-degree felony, and that's a minimum of two months in prison, maximum of 10 years. And, the moment you touch me to put a mask on me because that's the only way mask is going to go on me is if you put it on, you'll actually be committing a second-degree felony. And, if you're doing that in my site, then under Texas Penal Code Chapter 22.01, I can actually place you under citizen's arrest. So, what are we going to do now?”
Ben: Oh, jeez. So, what's this airport security officer say?
Jesse: He looked at me, he's like, “Will you please put your mask on?” I said, “No.” And then, it's like stalemate, he didn't know what to say, he's out of answers. I said, “But listen, I really appreciate you doing your job, I'm not here to make your job hard, but I'm not going to do it.” And, he was like, “Okay, you have a good day.” I said, “You too, man. You too.” And, that was it.
Ben: Wow, wow. So, when you're doing–there's a police officer, with the IRS, with this guy with the mask, I mean, how scalable is this for the general population? I mean, is this something other people can learn? You talked about this Alphonse's website but this is stuff nobody grew up learning. The difference between say common law versus statutory law, or even what your actual rights are, where do you even start learning about these type of things?
Jesse: Well, here's what I would suggest. And, this is literally all anybody needs to know. And then, the specific linguistics we're working on that you and I talked about. I've got a concept of the law dojo. We're working on. We're building it.
Ben: Right. Instead of your karate dojo, a dojo that teaches people these kind of things.
Jesse: Right, right. But here's the thing, and this is why I'm so drawn to it now that I think about it because everything that I teach from marketing sales, branding, ethical cult building, all this kind of things. Everything that I teach is subtractive in nature. It's not additive. In other words, it's not the things that people don't know that are keeping them stuck, it's the things that they do know that are patently false. And so, once they remove the things that are not true, then they come back to their heart, they come back to knowing who and what they really are. They remember their purpose. They remember their divine mission on this planet. They remember their perfect child of God and you are made in His likeness and image. And, there's no mistakes there.
Once you know who you are, then it's very simple. And, I can do this in 90 seconds. Does any human being on the planet have more rights than any other human being? No. Every human has exactly zero more rights than every other human. Now, people can argue that and they can say, “Yeah, but what about this, and this, and this?” Well, the only thing that you're going to find is not even an exception to that but a potential debate point is threat, influence, persuasion, or outright violence. But all of that, outside of violence, everything else is convincing, and coercion, and manipulation which causes people to agree not even knowing what they're agreeing to. But if who you are and you know that you're an honorable person, and you're not going to be in dishonor and you're going to abide by your word and abide by your integrity, then nobody actually has any rights over you.
So, imagine this. Let's say some person doesn't have any sense of their own power, they think they're going to get power by controlling me or you, and they look up on the map and they go, “There's Ben and Jessa's house,” and they draw a circle on their map around your home. And then, they come to your door the next day and they knock on the door, and they say, “Hi, Mr. Greenfield, you don't know me but I drew a circle around your house and I named it Fantasyland. And, you're in that circle, so you have to give me some money.” You'll look at that person probably and say, “I don't know what you're smoking, but I hope you didn't pay too much because the quality is terrible and you're hallucinating. Be gone.” Because that person is making things up that have nothing to do with reality. They have zero more rights.
Now, let's say they get all butthurt, they run away and then they get three friends, and all three of them agree that this circle called Fantasyland around the Greenfield home that you have to do what they said in their circle. No, three times zero is still zero. Now, what if there's a hundred of them and they call themselves a legislature and they decide that we're going to draw this fictitious circle around your geographic residence, we're going to name it city of Spokane or the state of Washington. And now, here's this fictitious circle that you have to do what we say. Well, you can't make that choice. You don't have any authority over me. So, no, I'm not going to abide your silly game. I don't deal with fictions. I don't deal with corporations. I live my life according to natural law. I live my life according to my guidance and my relationship with my creator. And, you have no power over me. And, you basically put the onus, the burden of proving that they own you, proving that they have jurisdiction over you, and they can't because they didn't create you.
Ben: So, one thing you mentioned earlier that I just want to put a little pink bow on was you mentioned all caps on I think you mentioned a birth certificate. Why does all caps matter?
Jesse: There's a theory, not without some basis in reality, that when 1933, the federal government was running out, they didn't have anything else to collateralize, they'd already collateralized the federal lands, they collateralized the state lands, nothing left collateralized, and you can't collateralize people because that's slavery and they'd all be hung for treason. Anyway, so what they did is created a corporation the moment someone's born. So, you're born in a hospital, very important that you have to be born in a hospital, the doctor, the nurse signs a certificate of live birth. The child was born alive and then that certificate of life worth goes to the census or the population department or whatever they call it. And, a birth certificate is made with all capital name, which is a corporation that you thou now represent. And so, it's a trust that you're entering into. You are the surety to that trust. And now, all business done with you through the state is done through that corporation.
It's fascinating, there are people that have corrected their status and rescinded all of that stuff, but again, I don't have the energy to do that. I just prefer to deal with any living being that darkens my door, give them my affidavit of status, and said, “Please show me where it says that I have signed a contract agreeing to abide by your laws, your rules, your regulations.”
Ben: You were talking about some guy. I think it was at that dinner who he went before a judge and the judge wound up getting arrested, or the judge wound up basically getting fined or something like that.
Jesse: This happens dozens of times every year. And, of course, the media is never going to report it.
First of all, if you walk into a courtroom, who's the most powerful person there?
Ben: Based on our chat for the past hour, I'd say you are.
Ben: Meaning, not you specifically but by the person who's representing themselves in court.
Jesse: The member of the public. A judge is a public servant.
Ben: And, it was kind of funny. By the way, we were having this dinner with a lawyer who was well-versed in statutory law and really didn't know anything about these common law concepts that you were bringing up. I forget his name. Hopefully, he's not listening and offended that he didn't know this, but it was blowing his mind, the stuff he'd never learned about in law school.
Jesse: Well, there's a reason they don't because all the law schools are run by the BAR association. BAR stands for British Account Registry. All this shit goes back to the central banks. And so, of course, you're going to have your minions. And, I'm not disrespecting lawyers, I've got good friends and some family members and clients, and students who are lawyers, but they all, every time I say this stuff, they're like, “Yup, that checks out. That checks out. That checks out.” So, the worst thing you can do is get a lawyer. If I ever find myself in front of the magistrate and I'll share this guy's story in a second because it's a good one, but if I ever end up for magistrate, I'm never going to get a lawyer because that's basically telling them I'm a baby, I don't know anything about the law and I need this person. Sometimes they'll try and appoint one for you and say, “We've brought this lawyer in to represent you.” “Objection, Your Honor.” “What's your objection?” “I don't need to be represented. I'm right here. I don't require representation. I'm right here.” And, the judges crack a little smile because they realize that, “Oh, alright, this is not one of the trained monkeys in the circus here.”
Jesse: So, a great, great, great dude. He's here in Texas. His name is Randy Kelton. He's got a really fascinating show called Rule of Law Radio. I think that's his website also, Rule of Law Radio.
Jesse: Randy Kelton. Good dude is an OG. Kelton goes before magistrate for something. It might have been taxes or maybe a speeding ticket. Goes before the judge and basically just tells the judge, “Hey, I know you swore an oath of office, you are a public servant, I am a member of the public; therefore, you're my servant, so I'm just here to make sure you're doing your job correctly.” Then he proceeds to cite the exact relevant case law that the judge is violating. And, he says to the judge, “You now have to throw this case out.” And, the judge is like, “Well, I'm not going to do that.” He said, “Okay, judge. I just want to make sure you heard what you just said. You said that you are not going to uphold this chapter of penal code, this law,” cited again. The judge said, “That's right.” So, Kelton, this dude has brass balls man, he looks at the bailiff who's there, the armed guard in the court. And, he looks at the bailiff says, “Bailiff, did you hear what the judge just said?” Bailiff is like, “Yes, sir.” He says, “Great. Then I want you to arrest that man.”
Ben: Oh, my gosh.
Jesse: Tells to the bailiff to arrest the judge because the judge is breaking the law. The bailiff is frozen, doesn't know what to do. So, Kelton says, “So, you're telling me you're not going to do your job that you swore an oath to protect and serve the public?” And, the bailiff is like, “I guess not.” He's like, “Alright.” So, Kelton pulls out a cell phone, dials 9-1-1, calls the cops on the cops.
Ben: Oh, my goodness. Right there in the courtroom?
Jesse: In the courtroom.
Ben: So, what happened?
Jesse: So then, the police show up or sheriff shows up and he explains the thing to the sheriff. He says, “Sheriff, the bailiff is refusing to do his job and protect me, a member of the public against this person who is failing to uphold his oath of office and violating this chapter of penal code, et cetera.” And, the sheriff is like, “What did I stumbled into?” And, it was like it's a stalemate. There's nothing happened for a little bit. And, finally, the judge is like, “Get out of here. Go, get out.” And, Kelton said, “I will, but understand that I'm still going to file a judicial complaint because you don't–because you just broke the law and now, you're telling me to leave doesn't mean you didn't break the law. So, I believe he went on to file a judicial complaint, the judge got in trouble.
Ben: Wow. Holy cow.
So, when it comes to this kind of stuff, I mean, obviously you mentioned Alphonse's website, iamhassentmetoyou.com is one place to go learn. Since you and I were talking, I signed up for a course. I've been slowly going through it. Admittedly, I'm kind of sort of. Well, I get called out for this, but I'm kind of sort of playing dumb on this podcast just a little bit to get the layperson's explanation from you because I signed up for the Sign-in America Study Course. And, I've been doing one course a week. And, this course is based on the background related to the idea that our identity as Americans have been stolen and that during the Civil War era, the original American Republic was set aside, replaced with a corporate for-profit structure which you already talked about. And, it describes via series of interviews, and podcasts, and PowerPoints, et cetera, how to reconstruct lawful government to bring correct oversight of employees back into balance, bring American common law back into session to reconstruct our peacekeeping function, things like state militia, and land and soil jurisdiction, and continental marshals, and stuff that a lot of people, I think, are familiar with. But I think that's a pretty decent roadmap. I think that Alphonse's website that you recommended is a good one.
I also found, and this one kind of–you know how these online summits kind of jump all over the place and it's just a bunch of random people getting interviewed. But a guy named Matt Belair did one called Choose Freedom Law Summit. That's not bad in terms of just a series of interviews. And, I'll put a few of the resources that I've found as I've been going along. And so, obviously, my purpose with this podcast was to make people aware of the existence of the rights that they did not know that they have and the existence of an entirely different law system that, I believe, is going to be more and more crucial for people to have an understanding of going forward into the phrase that's often overused these days, the times that we are in.
But anyways, you have other forms of self-sufficiency that I know you find important. I feel like we should or could do another podcast. But you mentioned you have land. You're in Texas, so no doubt you have guns and we've established that you have a motorcycle. If you were to rapid-fire a few other forms of self-sufficiency in addition to an understanding of statutory versus common law, what would be a few other things that you think are important in these times, or homesteading, or alternate passports, or anything like that? What are the biggies for you?
Jesse: Sure. Biggest for me. I just want to live my life. And, that's pretty simple. So, I started to look at all of the ways in which I was dependent on structures over which I had no control, structures that could be subverted, controlled, or decimated. And, I just started with Maslow's pyramid. I worked my way up the top and I realized my weak link is food. I'm bachelor at this point, I've used Uber Eats obsessively and basically don't have food in my fridge.
Ben: You're skinny, so you can survive three days without a steak.
Jesse: Well, it's the fast metabolism and stuff.
Ben: Like me, yeah.
Jesse: So, I started to realize. Okay, forget about hitting the fan. And, I don't want to approach this from a fearful perspective. What about just quality of life? Wouldn't it be awesome to have natural food? Wouldn't it be awesome to know where my food came from? And so, that was sort of the genesis of my property experiment, found this great property, connected with an amazing team, and we've got our first crops coming in in two weeks. So, that to me is an upgrade. It's not an emergency approach, just a cool thing to do. But in the process, I've realized how simple it is, not always easy, but with the right people, the right community. I mean, this property will be growing food to feed probably 150 people a year by next fall.
Ben: Yeah, it's amazing. We have six raised garden beds and I mean, not only can we grow enough to feed our entire church with those six raised garden beds, it's crazy. We give food away but then I got into sprouting. When COVID first started, I can buy a bag of seeds for two bucks on Amazon, and sprout, some of the most nutritionally dense superfoods in my pan. I actually just invested in a company that's doing a push button sprouting system. It's made by the same guy who taught me how to sprout, Doug Evans, who wrote “The Sprout Book,” which is amazing. But yeah, I mean between that grabbing a bow or a gun, goats, chickens, if you have a big enough plot, I think that's super important. I think that's probably not a big news flash to a lot of people to be able to have some sovereignty over your own food production. What about any of those other little things that might fly under the radar for people?
Jesse: Yeah. And, you don't even need property, you just need somebody that has property or go start growing in your backyard. And, more than anything, this is often overlooked in a lot of the prep circles, and prep clubs, and survivalist communities is the importance of community. And so, there's a group of people that are here in Austin. We're all within maybe 20, 30 minutes driving distance of each other and we regularly communicate on what's your level of prep, what's your level of readiness. And, it just feels good. People have car insurance, and health insurance, and fire insurance, but they don't have food insurance. It [01:11:33]_____ me.
So, having food insurance to me means having–and I'd invent all these terms when I created this course called Global Prep Club, but I teach something called The Food Horizon. And, it's basically a healthy active adult will need about a million calories per year. And so, that's about 2,700 calories per day. So, you just take your food stores of whatever they are. If you're going to go full-on prep and get freeze-dried stuff, that's cool. If you're going to can, if you're going to ferment, if you're going to pickle, if you're going to do all that other stuff, you just do the calorie count. And, multiply the calorie count by the number of or take the calories you have and divide by 27.50, and you arrive at a date. And, that date is your food horizon. And so, I teach people how to just steadily push their food horizon out. And, our goal for the people that I'm coaching is to move their food horizon out to the point where you've got enough time to handle the learning curve and the resource management of growing your own food.
And, I also suggest to decentralize your approach. So, if you're going to have chickens, just be the chicken person and be the chicken person for your community. And, somebody else gave me the goat–
Ben: Yeah. It's a good idea. That's kind of somewhere where Charles Eisenstein gets into in some of his stuff with “Sacred Economics” and the entirety of the gifting economy, which of course, if you were to just google for a list of different websites that allow you to basically trade not sell. Or there's actually a really great book called the “Buy Nothing, Get Everything Plan.” I'll link to that one in the shownotes as well. And, they have a whole website called the “Buy Nothing Get Everything.” It's basically–I forget, it's buynothinggeteverything.com, but it's a list of all the places in your city that allow you to trade. And, it's actually a pretty robust website and seems to be getting bigger by the day along with websites that are social media neighborhood websites. What's the popular one? It's social media for local websites, myneighborhood.com or something like that. But anyways, you have a buynothinggeteverything.com is a good resource as well that I found for just trading it. And, potentially doing business with pockets of people who may not require you to be vaccinated to do business with them or require you to be masked to get into their place of business.
I mean, I'm living in a pretty good area of the world, Jesse, and there's actually a book called–what's the name of it? It's basically about how if there's one area of the country that's most likely to secede. It's actually this area that I'm living in right now, kind of the Moscow, Idaho, Pullman, Washington, Spokane, like Idaho, Washington, Montana type of area. That book is called “Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America: Christian Reconstruction in the Pacific Northwest.” And, it's about the whole history of these fringe communities of people who do business with each other no matter what they might be getting scapegoated as, particularly pocketed in the Pacific Northwest. That's also a really interesting read. And, I'll link to all these in the shownotes.
Jesse: So, this is what's so spot on about everything you just said. There's a great video that some company did or some group did is animated and it's basically all about parallel structures. I don't recall the title, but it's basically —
Ben: That's alright. If you find it, shoot to me, I'll put it in the shownotes.
Jesse: I will, but it's a beautiful animation, it just basically shows how populations are controlled and are mentally sort of destabilized and damaged. And, the solution is not to fight those destabilizing forces, it's to build better alternatives that work for you. And, that's what I'm actively doing. And, if we look at food and water, we look at community, we look at lawful forms of self-governance in tandem with these things. We're not trying to overthrow anybody, do whatever you want. I'm just not going to participate.
And, this is another fascinating thing. I don't know how. I can't verify this because I'm just not in this world. But I came across my attention two weeks ago that in China, which is completely totalitarian government but a beautiful people, incredible Chinese culture, government and culture, two totally different things. As much as 40% of the Chinese economy is black market.
Ben: Wow. Is the proper term for that secondary market?
Jesse: It is. Although, I'm —
Ben: Nice term.
Jesse: The hashtag I'm coming out with next year is Black Markets Matter.
Jesse: What is a black market? It is a market that can't be controlled by the centralized power structures.
Ben: Right, it's outside of government-sanctioned channels.
Jesse: Which is why they hate it. That's why Ross Ulbricht opened up Silk Road and got taken down hard, dismissed all his defense evidence and he's now serving two life sentences with no chance of parole because he was running a secondary market, running a market that was on bitcoin. Totally anonymous, totally reputation-based. And, yeah, they took him down hard.
But you can't put the genie back in the bottle. And, once people have enough powerful parallel structures and better alternatives–it's essentially what's been happening anyway, we're just seeing it accelerated now. And, with what I believe are going to be supply chain shortages, food shortages, maybe even potentially legit famine. I don't want to participate in the famine. I don't want to participate in food shortages. So, I'm doing everything that I know how to do to make sure that me and mine are taken care of. And, everything about that just resonates with every cell in my body because it just seems responsible, it seems intelligent stewardship of this incredible planet that we get to live on.
And, I mean, I kid you not, I wake up so grateful for the powers that–well, powers, it should not be, but the people that are acting like they're in power. I'm so grateful to them for revealing their hand, for playing the theater because it's all it's done to accelerate my wildest dreams. I always wanted a sanctuary. I always wanted to have a kick-ass place to have Tough Mudder with paintball. Well, it's like, “I've got this place.” I thought it was going to be when I'm 60. But no, it's a little early. And, awesome, God bless them.
Ben: Well, I think probably one of the best places for people to kind of keep up to date on what you're doing because it seems all the time you're pushing out good information that will help keep people up to date on this, would it be your Facebook page probably? That's where I see you pretty active.
Ben: Telegram. Okay, cool. Cool. So, I'll link to Jesse's Facebook, to his Instagram, to his telegram in the shownotes. If you go to BenGreenfieldfitness.com/Elder.
And then, I would also encourage you guys if you have your own resources to add, or your own comments, or discussion points to add, go there also and jump into the conversation. And, I think that we can all learn from each other, go take that Sign-in America Study Course. Stay tuned to Jesse's Law Dojos. There's so many places that this conversation could go. But again, my purpose of getting Jesse on the podcast was to at least begin to bring awareness to this and use my platform to do so.
And again, I'm not saying that you got to stick it to the police officer when you get pulled over, maybe you just need to get some chickens and familiarize yourself with common law to a certain extent and go read “The Sprout Book.” But I mean, at least begin to think about these things because I don't know if you agree with me, Jesse, but the world's going to look a lot different a year from now.
Jesse: Oh, 100%, man. 100%. And, when we see that farmers are being paid 1.5 times their subsidies to till their crops under, then you have the shipping container fiasco, then you have–last I checked, there's 130 000 truck drivers that are not at work because they're being paid to stay home basically. So, we've got all these weak links in the supply chain. Anyone of which could cause a major hiccup. We've got about five of them that are all beginning to glow red. And, that could be scary or it could be the most exciting thing ever. And so, I'm trending towards excitement. And, I've always found rational optimism to be the ultimate advantage.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. Well, I dig abroad, dig you. I appreciate our friendship and —
Ben: I wish we had a chance to hang out even more because I was always at a blast and learned so much when I'm with you. And, I get so inspired about all this stuff. So, stay safe out there, especially amongst any Vaseline, that Vaseline-smeared street fighters, and keep making homeschoolers proud, dude.
Jesse: Oh, man, you touched my heart, dude. So good to connect.
Ben: Alright, folks. Well, I'm Ben Greenfield along with the great Jesse Elder signing out. Again, the shownotes are BenGreenfieldFitness.com/Elder, were linked to all Jesse's pages and everything else we talked about. Thanks for listening in and until next time. Have an amazing week.
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Texas man, fellow homeschooler, a man after my own heart, and today's podcast guest, Jesse Elder is a self-described “Millionaire Mentor,” an Improv Philosopher, a former MMA fighter turned entrepreneur, and also the author of the online course “The Upgraded Life.”
Jesse's latest quest has been to tackle our human rights, sovereignty, common law vs. statutory law, and many other elements of freedom that are particularly relevant for the times we are currently living in.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-How Jesse Elder learned the value of true freedom and learning to live with the consequences of one's decisions…06:30
- Jesse Elder on Kyle Kingsbury's podcast
- Raised by parents who more or less allowed him to discover the world on his own terms
- Discovered martial arts at age 9; quickly devoted his life to it
- At age 19, had an encounter that left him disillusioned with what he had learned and was teaching re: martial arts
- Took up jiu-jitsu and amateur fighting at local bars
- “I have a body, but I'm not my body”
- Family and friends felt sorry for Jesse Elder when he was beaten, but this was an epiphany for him on the meaning of true freedom
- Opened highly profitable martial arts centers employing sound business and marketing principles
-Statutory vs. common law and how the legal system has become a weapon of the state…33:00
- Jesse Elder began studying law in February 2021
- It's actually illegal for the government to assess and collect a tax on private property
- The U.S. was founded on what's known as “common law” or “equity law”
- Each court must be a court of record; magistrate, clerk, jury, etc. aka due process
- Many forms of law have been added to the common law; has weaponized the legal system for monetary gain
- If there's no victim, is there a crime?
-What to do if and when you get pulled over for speeding…39:19
- Keep your hands visible on the steering wheel
- “What is your emergency?” you say to the cop (lights are emergency lights)
- Engaging with the script is treading on dangerous ground
- They're trying to bring you into their fictitious world of jurisdiction
- Tickets are essentially offers of contract – a request for money
- Any contract that is enforced or assumed, that you didn't agree to, is a fraud
- Take the ticket, file an affidavit of status with the magistrate in the jurisdiction you've been pulled over
- Affidavit of Status forum topic on Alphonse Faggiolo's website iamhassentmetoyou.com
-Fun facts about the IRS and what might happen if you stop filing tax returns…47:11
- The IRS was founded in 1933, is officially listed as a debt collection agency, and is based in Puerto Rico
- IRS notices sent through the mail are violating at least 3 federal laws by demanding money via the mail
- There's no federal law stating an individual must pay tax on their income
- Fear and heavy conditioning is the cause for more people not being aware of this
- Questions to ask of the IRS:
- Am I the property of you or your employer?
- What is the name of your employer?
- Is my body mine, or is it under the control of you or your employer?
- Have I consented with my signature any obligation or contract where I've relinquished my rights to you or your employer? Have I consented with my signature any obligation or contract agreeing to be governed by your laws, statutes, codes?
- Do you have a verified claim to bring to me, from a man or a woman, claiming I have damaged or violated their rights in any way?
- Under what authority are you administering my property?
-Resources to begin understanding your rights and sovereignty as an individual…55:45
- Law dojo
- Everything taught is subtractive; it's not what we don't know, but what we do know that is patently false
- Does any human being have more rights than another?
- Threat, influence, persuasion, manipulation cause us to submit to falsehoods
-The significance of your name in ALL CAPS on your birth certificate…1:00:01
-Why the judge is NOT the most powerful person in a courtroom…1:01:35
- All law schools are run by the state BAR association (British Accredited Registry)
- Rule of Law Radio hosted by Randy Kelton
- The Sign-In America Study Course
- Choose Freedom Law Summit
-Other forms of self-sufficiency Jesse recommends…1:08:30
- Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid – weak link is food
- Grow your own food on your own property
- The Sprout Book by Doug Evans
- The Food Horizon
- Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein
- Buy Nothing Get Everything Plan by Liesl Clark and Rebecca Rockefeller
- Buy Nothing Get Everything website
- Buy Nothing Project
- My Neighborhood website
- Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America: Christian Reconstruction in the Pacific Northwest by Crawford Gribben
- 40% of the Chinese economy is the black market
- Jesse's Facebook, Instagram, and Telegram
-And much more…
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar
Resources from this episode:
– Jesse Elder:
- The Sprout Book by Doug Evans
- Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein
- Buy Nothing Get Everything Plan by Liesl Clark and Rebecca Rockefeller
- Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America: Christian Reconstruction in the Pacific Northwest by Crawford Gribben
– Other Resources:
- Ben Greenfield's REV Yourself Conference – 24 Cutting-Edge Interviews With The World’s Leading Experts on Fat Loss, Nutrition and Human Performance.
- I Am Has Sent Me To You
- Affidavit of Status Forum
- The Sign-In America Study Course
- Choose Freedom Law Summit
- The American States Assemblies (This is the new version of the original American States Assemblies site)
- The States Of The American States Assemblies (Information on all the 50 States Assemblies + Educational Information)
- Search Anna Von Reitz (This is explicitly a search site of all of Anna’s articles to date)
- Anna Von Reitz Webinars (A new site that combines Anna’s Webinars with a search feature)
- Sign In America: American Debt Relief (Information on the debt relief program)
- Rule of Law Radio hosted by Randy Kelton
- Buy Nothing Get Everything Website
- Buy Nothing Project
- My Neighborhood Website
- Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs
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