[Transcript] – The Crazy Future Of Medical Biohacking: Skull Resets, Suppositories, Nasal Sprays, Nebulizers, Sound Therapy & More With Dr. John Lieurance.

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/biohacking-podcasts/medical-biohacking/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:34] Podcast Sponsors

[00:04:45] Guest Introduction

[00:07:46] Favorite Biohack At the Greenfields

[00:10:30] Involvement In Biohacking And Natural Medicine

[00:22:09] Why Suppositories?

[00:30:36] Podcast Sponsors

[00:33:10] Other Ingredients of Suppositories

[00:35:25] Things You Don't Know About Melatonin

[00:45:44] Uses And Benefits Of NAD

[00:48:46] Nasal And Breathing Sprays Recommendations

[01:00:02] Nebulizing

[01:05:11] New Laser Technology To Administer Compounds

[01:09:25] The Mysterious “Holy Water”

[01:12:51] What Ben And John Are Excited About Right Now

[01:19:15] Closing the Podcast

[01:20:25] End of Podcast

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

John:  Then you also think about all of the energy that the brain would be expending, trying to compensate for these deficiencies as well. So, just cleaning this stuff up. I guess it's different for everybody depending on the tone of their muscles down there and whatnot. If you have decent tone, it just pulls up a couple inches and you don't even know it's there. Properties that they think that there was some sort of a fountain of youth.

Ben:  You realize we've already lost like half our listeners? But keep going.

Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

Alright, you guys, you've heard about how I've been sticking melatonin, glutathione, suppositories up my butt and spraying plant medicines from the Amazon up my nose and breathing glutathione and silver through my mouth. And the guy who is the wizard behind all of this stuff flew out to my house. We spent a few days together and we recorded absolute magic for you. His name is Dr. John Lieurance. You're going to love this cat. I'm super, super grateful and blessed and happy to be able to bring this diamond in the rough, this unicorn of a physician to the world. You're going to really love what he has to say and to tell you. You're going to learn a ton.

This podcast, before we jump in, is brought to you by Kion. And at Kion, one of the things that we are very well-known for is our Kion Clean Energy Bar. I formulated this thing. I taste-tested products for like two years before finally settling on the result that is incredibly popular. It's organic cocoa butter, sea salt, almonds, coconut flakes, cocoa nibs, the equivalent of like a half cup of bone broth, of grass-fed gelatin in each bar, organic chia seeds, baby quinoa, which is called kaniwa, which is full of B vitamins and minerals and flavonoids. I mean, this stuff is–you'd think it would taste like ass with basically as many nutritious and healthy things that are in there, but actually, it not only tastes freaking delicious, but I tested it in freezing conditions and hot conditions. It doesn't turn into a brick in the cold, it doesn't melt in the heat or stick to the inside of the bar, it doesn't get stuck in your teeth. This bar is, in my opinion, if I don't say so myself, the best tasting punch of mouthwatering chocolatey, salty, coconut goodness you're ever going to sink your teeth into. And you get a 10% discount on it. How, you ask? You go to getkion.com, getK-I-O-N.com and your special discount over there is BEN10. So, BEN10 at getkion.com.

And in addition to that, our other sponsor for today's show is Beekeeper's Natural, who have cracked the code on how to harvest things like propolis and royal jelly and bee pollen from the hive of these bees. If you don't know about any of these compounds, bee pollen, for example, that's nature's multivitamin, and it is denser in protein, gram for gram than any animal source. Their propolis has a ton of antioxidants and germ-fighting compounds in it. They even have a convenient spray, which allows you to spray the propolis directly into your mouth. They've got the royal jelly, which is basically like nature's nootropic. It's got the neurotransmitter acetylcholine in it, a bunch of super unique fatty acids that promote mental clarity and brain health and focus.

And so, they've created this entire suite of products harvested straight from the bees in a healthy and sustainable way that respects the hive. And then they filter it, they make sure there's no artificial ingredients, no cheap filters, no refined sugars, no pesticide residue. And these folks are just committed to absolute quality straight from the bees. So, if you want to upgrade your medicine cabinet or your supplements drawer or your nootropic formulas and save 15% off of all that, you go to beekeepersnaturals.com/ben. That's beekeepersnaturals.com/ben, B-E-Ekeepersnaturals.com/ben. They told me I really needed to spell that out for you, so I did. Did I do a good job at that? I know, I did. I think I did. Press rewind and play it again if I didn't. So anyways, meet your new medicine cabinet with Beekeeper's Naturals.

So, I'm out in the forest right now. I'm not literally in the forest. I'm in a tiny, tiny little house, little cottage out in the forest, out in my forest, out of my land here in Spokane, Washington. And I had a guest arrived at my doorstep a couple of days ago and he arrived as like the Santa Claus of natural medicine. He had like this stuff he called holy water with him, and ozonated toothpaste, and cacao and coffee-infused CBD, and all manner of these crazy medical hacks. He's been blowing my mind for the past couple of days. He's actually been blowing my mind for the past couple of months because I've known this cat for a few months now.

He ships these wonderful and weird formulations to my house and everybody that I've connected him with has equally had their minds blown, not to overuse that phrase, with his level of knowledge and a very unique approach he has to delivering nutrients to your body, to working with a wide variety of conditions. And he's just steeped in this stuff. He absolutely loves it and I'm incredibly honored and pleased to have met him because now I can introduce him to you and he's about to blow your mind with some pretty cool stuff. His name is Dr. John Lieurance. And John is a naturopathic physician. He's also a chiropractic neurologist. He's been in private practice in Florida for over the past couple of decades. He's the chief scientific advisor of a couple of companies, GlutaGenic, and a real, real wizard on glutathione.

You're going to hear a lot more about that because that's part of what that company is about. And also, Advanced Biome Corp where he also creates some very unique formulas and has a very, very cool approach. His clinic is called Advanced Rejuvenation. He treats chronic disease, regenerative medicine. He does functional neurology, which we'll get into, functional medicine, stem cell research. And some of the things that he specializes in include Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, autoimmune disease, chronic Lyme, SIRS, mold illness. He himself has his own pretty interesting story about dealing with chronic Lyme and mold himself that he'll get into. But ultimately, I think you guys are really going to love to meet Dr. John Lieurance. And everything that we talk about you can find at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/drjohn, like D-R-J-O-H-N, BenGreenfieldFitness.com/drjohn.

And by the way, right now, I feel like my brain is going a million miles an hour. It's like clear as a bell. And I'm pretty sure whatever you gave me to snort up my nose prior to this podcast must have just been like liquid LSD because I feel absolutely amazing right now.

John:  That's great to hear. Yeah. I've been feeling the same way.

Ben:  Yeah, because you took some too, yeah?

John:  I did.

Ben:  Yeah. So, you guys are going to learn about all his old nasal sprays. And actually, let's speak about another orifice first though, because this is actually how I met you, John. This package arrived at my house full of suppositories, which I think as of now have become mildly famous because I've talked about them a few times before on the podcast, these melatonin suppositories. And I've taken melatonin before. I've done sublingual melatonin, time-release melatonin capsules, 5 milligrams, 10 milligrams, and this was like a high-dose, high, high-dose melatonin suppository that I have been using since then, especially for international travel, shove one of those bad boys up your ass and you're just like dead to the world. Your circadian rhythm is rebooted. But there's actually a lot more to melatonin —

John:  A lot more, yeah.

Ben: –you want to get into. So, before we talk about putting things up your ass and the select number of things that one can do that with, and suppositories in general and nasal sprays and everything else, I want to know about you and where you came from. Basically, how you got into this whole world and your unique approach.

John:  Yeah. Well, first of all, I'd like to thank you for having me here as a guest. So, I've been listening to your podcast for years and very impressed. I've learned a lot and it's helped me on my own journey to explore a lot of things that you might not be exposed to, otherwise. And to come out to your house and just see the setup that you have here, all the biohacks, but just even more importantly, the person you are and the way you're raising your family and your kids, your dogs are even amazing, your wife Jessa, just absolutely amazing. Everybody that's listening needs to know like Ben Greenfield's a real deal. Like, he is the real deal.

Ben:  I got to ask you though, and then you can continue your story. Of all the little things you've had a chance to try since you got here, what's your favorite?

John:  Well, so let me run down the list of everything I've done just this morning.

Ben:  Okay. Go ahead.

John:  So, I've done a hyperbaric, I drank hydrogen water before getting in there, and then I did a Joovv light like 20 minutes while I was breathing some NanoVi. And then I did a bioenergy.

Ben:  BioCharger.

John:  The BioCharger. I've done that twice now, okay?

Ben:  Just this morning?

John:  Just this morning. Then we did a workout together, right? I mean, it's just–yeah, and I feel great.

Ben:  And it's only 10:45 a.m.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. And so, we'll finish this up. We'll get Frisbee golf. We got a bunch of other doctors coming over the house tonight to geek out on more medicine and biohacking.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  But in terms of your background, you actually had an illness that got you exploring some of these deeper, darker fringes of natural medicine.

John:  Yeah. Well, I started out in life with some challenges. If anyone wants to look up Camp Lejeune, the Marine Base, they have —

Ben:  But where in that Camp Lejeune, North Carolina?

John:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  My gosh, I've been there. I did a triathlon there.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  I did an internship at Duke University. And so, I did like every triathlon I could find in North Carolina during that time —

John:  Did you drink the water?

Ben: –when we're competing at Camp Lejeune. I'm sure, I must have swum in it.

John:  Well, from like 1965 to 1985, it was just absolutely terrible. They had up to 3,500 times the normal safety contamination limits on just a whole list of different toxins and radioactive material and so forth. I was in utero during that period of time, and then my first two years of life, I've always been a little challenged, a lot of asthma and allergies. Eventually, I was put in basically learning disability classes. And this was in Hawaii, right?

Ben:  So, you actually grew up in Hawaii?

John:  Yeah. We moved out to Hawaii when I was seven, my dad was a marine and lived there all the way through college. And so, it was an awesome place to grow up, but it wasn't so awesome to be in special education classes there because they lumped everybody, either your normal or you're like in these basically retarded classes. And so, it was challenging in a lot of ways, my self-esteem. It was a very difficult time getting through that. But it gave me a lot of drive. We have a mutual friend in common, Dan Pompa, Dr. Pompa.

Ben:  Yeah. Dr. Dan.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  He's been on the show.

John:  And besides helping me with detox, his products are amazing. He's just a wonderful person as well, and he and I share a lot of similarities with special education and dyslexia and so forth. And the “Pain to Purpose” is just– it really rings for me.

Ben:  Yeah. That's his catchphrase, “Pain to Purpose.”

John:  It is, yeah. I think we're all given these challenges in life. It's like it's all about how you deal with it. And then if we grow from it and we learn from it, and then we can move that forward and help other people. And there's been a lot of challenges that I've had that have allowed me to learn how to overcome them and then help lots of other people with those challenges as well.

Ben:  The Lyme and mold, was that something that developed later on?

John:  Yeah. So, that was in like 2007, 2008. I just got really sick and I had no idea what was wrong with me. And it was double challenging because I was already practicing. I had a clinic that people are coming in from all over and I was supposed to be the guy that had all the answers, but I was just sick and I was going to all these different doctors and nobody really knew what–I got diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis because I had just severe joint pain. It was so bad that I remember sitting on a bench one time and watching somebody just walk by, and it just like–I didn't even know what was like to walk normally at that time.

Ben:  Gosh.

John:  So, it was just so severe. And then I finally tested myself for Lyme, and I tested myself for a variety of viruses, and my Epstein-Barr virus was just through the roof. And so, I just had multiple infections, which is classic with people with Lyme because your immune system isn't functioning, and so you just accumulate all these infections.

Ben:  Oh, yeah. And it was something I've actually been setting up on recently because I've been shocked at the connection, the deeper into this rabbit hole I go, between EBV, cytomegalovirus, Lyme, mold, heavy metals, and EMF exposure, like this whole issue. I don't know if you're electro hypersensitive, but those type of co-infections, if that's what you want to call them, tend to be really aggravated by EMF exposure as well.

John:  Well, there's some ideas that aluminum might make the virulence a little bit more with the viruses, the EMF. There's different things. And with mold too, same thing, they've done some studies where they exposed mold to EMF exposure and they see that there's much higher virulence. So, yeah. For people that are challenged with health, I think getting themselves out of Wi-Fi and turning off your Wi-Fi router at night–I mean, you've covered this in a lot of your podcasts, I know.

Ben:  Oh, yeah, we've gone through that. We're staring at a dirty electricity filter right now, this computer is plugged into and that's–the whole EMF thing is a topic for another day, but I certainly think that specifically when you look at the voltage-gated calcium channels on the cell, and the steep influx of calcium that occurs, and the impact that has on mitochondria and overall cellular function, then you pair that with an infection, or heavy metal, or Lyme, or a virus, and you're essentially debilitating the body's ability to be able to respond while at the same time weakening its defenses. So, yeah, it's an issue. But we digress. So, you were sick with all these issues, but you also have this unique combination being a chiropractic doc, and also a naturopathic physician. So, how did that all happen?

John:  Well, originally, I graduated from chiropractic school and then started to get involved with functional neurology through the Carrick Institute, and it's a very high level of doing specific types of adjustments and different neurological exercises and doing a lot of work with neuroplasticity. So, a lot of patients that we treat with this technique, we're not doing as many adjustments as you would think. A lot of times, people would come and watch these types of procedures and they wouldn't really recognize it as traditional chiropractic work. But when you're able to activate the brain in a very specific way, you can create some amazing changes that can really balance neurology and everything from like movement disorders to autoimmune to challenges and autonomic dysfunction. All of these things are rooted in neurological challenges.

Ben:  Give me one hardcore example what you mean when you say “activate the brain”. Are we talking about like snapping the fingers in front of the face or shoving something in an orifice? Because I know you're prone to do.

John:  Well, this is a good example. So, there's something called your vestibular ocular reflex. So, whenever your head moves to the right, your eyes actually neurologically are pushed to the left. If you rotate your head, it's torsion and torsion. So, there's this yoking between your neck, your eyes, and your vestibular inner ear, and there's this conversation that's happening between all of these. And so, what happens is that that conversation gets skewed. And so, the neck muscles and the spinal muscles don't respond appropriately. And so, we see this with people where their eyes–the eyes need to be balanced. And if they're not, then there's a lot of musculature throughout the entire spine that can be thrown off. Some of these techniques we've used in some very high-level football players, actually. I can't name names, but there's been some Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks that utilized this type of functional neurology to actually continue playing. Yeah.

Ben:  Wow.

John:  Sid Crosby actually just came out, and basically, he's like one of the top hockey players ever, right?

Ben:  Yeah.

John:  He came out and he had a traumatic brain injury and utilizing these types of treatments was able to overcome a very serious deficiency.

Ben:  But what would be an example of an actual treatment? Like, what would be one technique you'd use?

John:  So, let's say somebody has a disturbance in their vestibular ocular reflex. What we might do is we might have them do something called gaze stabilization. So, they'll hold their eyes on a target, and then they'll move their head in different ways to allow the eye muscle to maintain that vestibular ocular reflex. And some people can't do it. Like for instance, if I took my finger and I moved it back and forth in front of you, that's a smooth pursuit.

Ben:  Right.

John:  And so there's two main types of eye movements. There's a smooth pursuit and then there's a saccade. A saccade is a fast eye movement. So, that fast eye movement should be accurate to a target, and you're constantly either pursuing or saccading the targets in your environment. And when this gets off, then your eyes are locking into a target and they don't hold there, and then it slips off, that feeds back into the spinal muscles. So, you can see that there's going to be a lot of disturbances in your fine motor skills when these things are off. So, by basically doing very specific exercises, get your eyes to move appropriately in these different movement patterns, it's hugely beneficial to the brain. Then you also think about all of the energy that the brain would be expending trying to compensate for these deficiencies as well. So, just cleaning this stuff up actually allows the brain to function at a higher level.

Ben:  That's something somebody was talking to me about–I forget. I think I was at a clinic and they were saying that a lot of people who get brain fog, fatigue, et cetera, kind of like mid to late afternoon, sometimes earlier, in many cases, they'll find that they have like some eye-tracking issues or even from a chiropractic standpoint, like alignment of some of the sutures in the skull and things that are actually causing a great deal of stress on the nervous system just beginning with the eyes, with that vestibular nerve.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, you're almost like exhausting yourself as your eyes work over time.

John:  Well, it's interesting you point out about the sutures in the skull because that's my deal with functional cranial release. So, it's a technique that I developed probably 15 years ago and I teach it to other doctors. And basically, it's a fusion of this functional neurology with this very specific type of cranial work that I think we're going to be doing with your family tomorrow.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, you told my boys at dinner last night what you wanted to have them do was balance. We have this thing called a SlackBow that you balance on. It's like a slackline trainer. And then you wanted them to come off of that. You were going to do the adjustments. What do you call it? Endonasal?

John:  It's a specific endonasal balloon manipulation.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. So, I dared them. I think they're both game for it. So, tomorrow, maybe we'll Instagram it for people and put it up if you guys want to see it. And if I wind up shooting a video, I'll put it in the shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/drjohn. So, you obviously are an expert in this functional neurology, and I know that's part of your practice. I know you do stem cell therapy, you do exosomes, you do peptides, you do a lot of the things that I've actually talked about on the show before, and I would love to use the time that we have to get into some of the stuff that I haven't had a chance to explore that much in terms of some of these more unique delivery mechanisms and some of the stuff that you specialize in. So, let's just go straight back to the suppositories. Why not? Because I know people are on the edge of their seats, pun intended, want to know about these suppositories?

John:  Let's get to the bottom of it.

Ben:  Okay. So, why suppositories?

John:  Alright. So, when I was sick, I started to utilize high-dose glutathione suppositories, and it was just such a game-changer for me that I realized, “Wow, this is really a very powerful medicine.” And what I liked about it was that when I dosed with a suppository, I would have peak plasma, meaning that the substance is in your bloodstream for six to seven hours. Whereas if I do an IV, peak plasma is like for an hour, right? It spikes, it's in your blood, and then it's out of your system. So, your cells are sitting there trying to absorb as much nutrients as they can in that short period of time. So, I think there's an advantage of lengthening that time and giving the cells more of an opportunity to absorb those nutrients. Plus, if we're talking about glutathione, in particular, it's one of the sleep-promoting substances along with uridine. And so, it's necessary. So, you can actually get better sleep.

Ben:  Along with uridine? People don't talk about uridine always. That's something that glutathione is causing to be released or do you co-administer that?

John:  It's another substance, yeah.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  But those are the two sleep-promoting substances to really get you to dive deep right away. So, glutathione, it really helps with sleep.

Ben:  I do not know that.

John:  You can take it in a lot of different–yeah. Well, that's why it's in Sandman.

Ben:  I was wondering. Sandman being your high-dose melatonin suppository that you have?

John:  Right.

Ben:  Okay. So, the glutathione is not just in there because it's going to help with its antioxidant effects while you're asleep or help the body to repair, it's in there because it will actually enhance sleep biology?

John:  Well, all the above.

Ben:  Wow.

John:  Right? So, we really worked hard on the Sandman to try to put everything that we could to give you true sleep.

Ben:  What about uridine? You put uridine in there?

John:  No, no, we haven't. But we've experiment with it, yeah, but not yet.

Ben:  Okay. So, back to the suppositories, you're getting a slow-release via the intra–what's the correct term, intrarectal absorption?

John:  It's rectal absorption.

Ben:  Okay. Yeah. So, rectal absorption, common delivery mechanism for a lot of medications really.

John:  Yes.

Ben:  If you're not doing like intravenous administration, for example. But what you're saying is that this peak occurs more gradually over a longer period of time, so you get a slower bleed of whatever it is that you're putting into your body, into your system.

John:  That's one advantage, but there's more.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  So, another advantage is that you're bypassing the gastric juices and all the enzymes with digestion that can actually harm a lot of these nutrients. And then there's something called first pass through the liver. And basically, the liver really breaks everything down and it needs to be put back together on the other side. So, when you do an IV, obviously, there's a lot of people go and get IVs because it's just so much more advantage because you're bypassing all these digestive enzymes and the first pass.

Ben:  Yeah. All the more so, by the way, if you have leaky gut or compromised gut, I think it becomes an even bigger issue–

John:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben: –with being able to adequately absorb what you need from food or vitamins or supplements or anything taken orally.

John:  Mm-hmm. So, yeah, you have an advantage on that side, too. And so, with all of that intact, it's almost like an IV to go. So, you can put in a suppository in and it's like you're hooked up to an IV for the next seven hours.

Ben:  Without the needles and [00:25:40] _____ come to your house or something like that?

John:  Yeah. And it's really no big deal. I mean, sometimes people make a big deal. I'm not going to use a suppository, whatever. It's like get over it. It takes like two seconds to put it in. It's very easy and it's there. And usually, basically, it turns into an oil once it's inserted.

Ben:  Yeah. These suppositories, when I get them from you, you unwrap them. They're semi-solid. I found that if you don't keep them in the refrigerator, they can tend to get almost like too soft to insert. So, I keep them in the refrigerator, and correct me if I'm wrong on that.

John:  Oh, that's the best way to do it.

Ben:  So, keep in the refrigerator. And I want to get back into what kind of suppository aside from glutathione or melatonin that you'd recommend, any glutathione. But when you administer these, like I have an inversion table and can hang upside down. Sometimes if I'm just in bed and I'm laying on my side, I'll just put it in there and continue laying on my side for a little while. But what's the best way to actually put a suppository in for people who haven't done it before?

John:  Well, we've put some science into these suppositories. Sometimes you have to actually put like an oil on them to get them lubricated. This is just lubricated naturally. So, you don't even really need to put your finger in the rectum usually once the suppository is like kind of–the way that it's shaped is —

Ben:  [00:27:07] _____.

John:  Yeah. It's an anti-gravity technology.

Ben:  I have a pretty greasy ass though too. So, you slip it in and then do you need to go upside down, like do you need to invert or you can just lay there?

John:  No, not all.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  Yeah. I mean, you could sit down for a little while or–I guess it's different for everybody, depending on the tone of their muscles down there and whatnot. If you have decent tone, it just pulls up a couple inches and you don't even know it's there.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And then one other question I was going to ask you because inevitably, some of these logistical issues will arise. I know people will ask this because some of your suppositories, and we could talk about these, they're kind of like daytime wakefulness, like stuff that you wouldn't necessarily have in you during the night. But if I would put one of those in in the morning, and let's say I need to have a bowel movement in the afternoon, how long does it need to stay in there to get everything that you need out of it? Because I've wondered before when I've taken a dump a few hours after doing a suppository, obviously, that suppository comes out. But how long should it actually stay in there?

John:  Well, it's going to continue to release for five to seven hours. So, if you do have a bowel movement, you are going to lose some, but it's still worth doing. I mean, if you're going to do something, say like the NeuroDiol, right, the high-dose CBD, you can do that in the daytime. It's usually no problem. But if you have —

Ben:  There's no way I could do a high-dose CBD suppository in the daytime. I get super drowsy taking that CBD.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  But you've got another one. It's called–is it Lucitol?

John:  Oh, yeah, Lucitol. Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  And what's in that one?

John:  Well, Lucitol has a lot of polyphenols in it. One of the most important one is the fisetin. So, it's really good for the brain, inflammation, and insulinemic, right? We have some fasting protocols we're working on where we use that product. It really kicked in that–to clear out the senescent cells.

Ben:  Yeah. I actually wrote about fisetin. But how do you pronounce it, fisetin?

John:  Fisetin.

Ben:  Fisetin. I pronounce it fisetin, but I've bastardized almost everything because I read so much. The anti-aging properties of it are pretty compelling.

John:  Incredible.

Ben:  Quercetin is one that a lot of people talk about, but fisetin, I'm going to say it like you do, kind of flies under the radar, but yeah, it's a very, very helpful molecule. So, some of your suppositories are daytime. In which case, ideally, someone should wait to put them in until they've had, say, like a morning bowel movement and then put it in and try to, if you can, not have another bowel movement for like five to seven hours if you want to get everything that you want out of it.

John:  Right. That's ideal.

Ben:  Okay. Got it. So, you've got the plant-based antioxidant, cellular senescence one that you would do during the daytime, and that one's called again —

John:  Lucitol.

Ben:  Lucitol. Sandman is the melatonin. Then you have a glutathione.

John:  Yeah. That's a Glutamax.

Ben:  Glutamax. And then what other suppositories are there?

John:  Well, we've got the StemTOR, which is the–it's an mTOR activator. So, it's good for people for working out. And everybody's all focused on inhibiting mTOR, but mTOR is actually —

Ben:  Hungry and libidoless and skinny their whole lives.

John:  Yeah. I mean, it's all about balancing it. It's like you want to activate it, you want to inhibit it. So, it's something that you take pre or post-work out and get a little bit extra repair through the mTOR pathway.

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Alright, let's get back to the show.

I want to get back to a few other more subtle nuances of the ingredients. First of all, most of the suppositories, when we're looking at the label, you also have bacteria in them. Tell me about the bacterial part because I'm trying to figure out, like can you actually recede? I mean, obviously, we know about fecal microbiota transplants and the ability to be able to populate via the rectum, the biome of the colon. But are you going after the same thing with these bacteria or is there a different reason that they'd be in there?

John:  Well, that's where you want your bacteria. You don't want it in the small intestine. You want it in the large intestine. So, we were aiming towards improving the microbiome, but we were also looking at specific strains that would assist in the absorption of various ingredients.

Ben:  Okay. That's what I was wondering.

John:  Yeah. So, we worked on those. And so, we have a couple of different strain combinations that we're utilizing, one that's more for like glutathione and antioxidants, and then another one that's more on the CBD, hemp absorption.

Ben:  What would be an example of a probiotic strain that you'd use?

John:  Well, we don't disclose that, those were proprietary.

Ben:  Okay. That's fine, that's fine. You can just hold it close to your chest. Nobody listens to this podcast anyways. It's fine. It's just you and me chatting. Now, melatonin, melatonin is one that I want to hone in on a little bit because I find that particularly fascinating.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  We are recording this podcast during lockdown, which you are actually breaking government orders by not sheltering in place down in Florida and being at my house, just so you know. That was a very risky plane ride you went on to come up, and you may die soon.

John:  It was interesting. It was almost apocalyptic flying out here.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. Well, we were laughing last night like the Greenfield house set in all humbleness, I think that if someone were to get sick, I've gotten more here at the house from antimalarials to quercetin, to ozone, to nebulized glutathione, which we'll talk about later, to hyperbaric, to where you could probably receive better treatment than you get at a hospital —

John:  Oh, hands down. Yeah. Well, we'd get into that.

Ben:  Yeah. We got to be careful. We will get banned from the YouTube.

John:  Yeah. The feds are making their rounds right now so we've got to be very careful.

Ben:  Right. But anyways, melatonin is being talked about right now as a possible and pretty potent antiviral. And there are a lot of other things going on with melatonin. So, talk to me a little bit about what people might not know about melatonin in particular. And just to couch this in proper terms for people, like one of your suppositories is like 100 milligrams of melatonin, 200 milligrams of melatonin.

John:  Two hundred, yeah.

Ben:  Alright. So, get into melatonin, also the safety and efficacy of using a high dose like that, because I get people who are like, “Oh, I'm going to shut down my own melatonin production. I'm going to throw off my circadian biology.” So, go ahead and riff on melatonin for a while for me.

John:  Alright. So, great questions, great questions. And so, one interesting study they did an oral absorption of melatonin, they found that there's only 3% absorption. So, it's not absorbed very well, but melatonin is the primary antioxidant. I mean, it's like at the top of the chain. And one of the things that it does is it protects your mitochondria under stress. What's really interesting is they did a study early on in the early days of melatonin and they were looking at different aspects with animal models, and they weren't really seeing a big change with these animals when they were in a basically stress-free environment. They weren't seeing any difference with their immune system or anything like that.

But what they did is they changed the study around and they took the mice and they put them in tubes with little holes in them for like a couple hours a day, which is like a stressor, right, because they're in a confined area. And so, this increase like cortisol and different stress hormones on the animals. And so, what they did then is they looked at the animals on melatonin versus off melatonin, and that's where they really start to get excited. They're like, “There's something to melatonin that really helps to protect the system when it's under stress.” And when you look at that study, it's like I look around right now and I see what are people are confined to their house. It's almost like that study are happening —

Ben:  Dark little rodent tubes.

John:  Yeah. So, it's like we need to put melatonin in the water supply, I think. But, well, let's dive into it a little bit. So, there's restorative aspects of melatonin, protective aspects. It helps with sleep. A lot of people know that. There's something called the glymphatic system. And I think you've talked about this on a podcast before.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like the brain's drainage system.

John:  It's like a pumping action. So, people that start to develop problems in their brain, they start to accumulate these different proteins like amyloid-beta and protein tangles and so forth. And so, these are immune complexes, actually. And so, they found that it's not so much the problem that these proteins are collecting as much as it's a problem of them being cleansed out of the brain. And so, if you look at–as you get older, the melatonin just declines rapidly as you get older. And so, this activator for deep sleep starts to diminish. And so, deep sleep is the primary activator to the glymphatic system.

So, supplementing with melatonin makes a lot of sense for that just for preventing degenerative neurologic conditions. But another really interesting aspect of melatonin is it inhibits cancer growth. So, I've done a lot of studies. If you go on and you start researching PubMed and so forth, you'll see a lot of different cancers have been shown to be inhibited with melatonin. So, a lot of natural medicine docs will use it in their practice for that. And then, there's the viral protection, which I think we should dive into a little bit, which just blew my mind when I started to read about it.

Ben:  What do you see with viruses in melatonin?

John:  Well, I was showing you that picture before, right?

Ben:  Yeah, you showed me a very interesting picture.

John:  So, they were looking at Ebola and Ebola just has a devastating effect on the endothelial lining of blood vessels. And so, they did with animal models with and without melatonin. And you see this picture and you can just see the blood vessels are just completely destroyed with the animals that didn't get the melatonin. Another really interesting study —

Ben:  You should email me that picture, by the way. I'll put it in the shownotes.

John:  Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody's got to look at this picture because it's like you just look at it and you're like, “Wow, that is really doing some –“

Ben:  Night and day difference in terms of the protective effects of the melatonin.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  Now, of course back to one of the questions that I was asking though, is this like, say, testosterone replacement for males where once you start, it's very difficult to come off because you can shut down your endogenous production?

John:  Right. Yeah.

Ben:  This is something a lot of people have been asking me about. After hearing, I started using your melatonin suppositories as well. You're going to screw your circadian biology by your own ability to produce melatonin.

John:  Well, this is the concern with any hormone is, are you going to shut down your endogenous production? That's what happens with testosterone. You start supplementing testosterone and your body says, “Oh, I've got plenty of that. I don't need to make anymore.” Right? With melatonin, it doesn't work that way. There is no negative feedback loop. You can take as much as you–and there's no toxic level of it either. So, they've done studies with animal models —

Ben:  I don't know, but there is. I bet we could find a guinea pig and kill them with about two million milligrams or melatonin.

John:  Well, maybe two million, but they went all the way up to 150,000 milligrams.

Ben:  Oh, wow.

John:  Well, I forget the exact equivalent, but it would be equivalent to 150,000 milligrams on 150-pound person. And they stopped the study because they're like, “There's just no toxic level of this.”

Ben:  Right. It's like the elephant that they tried to find the lethal dose of LSD with. The elephant wound up dying from the tranquilizers they had to give it so that it didn't just go berserking from all the LSD before actually croaked from the tranquilizer. So, yeah. Not that melatonin is that similar to LSD, but that's very interesting. Now, in terms of the amount, why so freaking much in it? Like, couldn't you do like a 10-milligram suppository?

John:  You could, you could. You could do any amount of melatonin, but what we're doing is super physiological dozing. So, this is not like what your primary care doc's giving you 5, 10, 20 milligrams of melatonin to help with sleep. What we're talking about is moving the needle on various aspects of health that can be related to high dose of melatonin.

Ben:  What about, relevant to some of the things that are in the news right now, something different than Ebola from a viral standpoint, is there anything similar to like a coronavirus?

John:  Right. Great question. So, there was a recent article just this year that came out and these scientists are saying melatonin could be a very helpful substance for coronavirus. And so, they've looked at the process of melatonin and what it does. And so, the challenge with this virus, in particular, is that it creates a cytokine storm. And that cytokine storm leads to something called ARDS or acute respiratory distress syndrome. So, the lungs basically shut down. So, what's involved with that is something called an inflammasome. And that inflammasome is what leads to that whole cascade of cytokine storm. And so, melatonin actually acts to calm that inflammasome down.

Ben:  Okay. So, in terms of blocking the inflammasomes or blocking the cytokine storm, this begs the question, not to put you on the spot, but there's also this concept that if you're using something like that regularly, like a very potent antioxidant that you might be just blunting your hormetic response in general, hormetic response to exercise, hormetic response to stressors, like kind of blunting the body's own endogenous antioxidant production. Could you theoretically be making yourself weaker by doing something like that?

John:  Well, I mean, they haven't done studies to really determine that, but I can tell you the lead authority of melatonin, Russell Rider, MD, PhD. And this guy is–he's been studying melatonin for, I don't know, his whole life really. He takes 100 milligrams every night. So, he's the most researched individual on melatonin, and so —

Ben:  Every night, wow.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  I'm going to have to upgrade my melatonin stocks. I use it during times of stress. I found it to be very helpful. I use it when I'm traveling, especially for long haul flights. It just completely reboots everything. I've actually used it on a flight, like a 10-hour flight along with your high-dose CBD, which is how many milligrams in the high-dose CBD?

John:  I think you were taking the 300.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah, which is–and I've said this before on podcasts. If you look at most of the studies on CBD and sleep enhancement, it's at least 100 mg plus. And of course, you might be able to say less for rectal absorption because you're getting a lot more in there. But man, that one-two combo of melatonin, high-dose melatonin, high-dose CBD via suppository, game-changer for sleep architecture, especially when traveling.

John:  Well, and I found that to be true too because I travel a lot from Florida to Hawaii and it's a pretty brutal flight with the time change and so forth. And so, I started to hack this with the products myself and I even came up with what I call the travel hacker kit, right? And so, the problem with when you're flying is that there's a lot of–air quality is a problem in the plain. There's mold. It's probably going to get better now because I think they've upped their standard since this whole coronavirus epidemic, but you've got EMF. So, there's a lot of stressors that happen in the plane. And so, taking a high dose of CBD made sense to me because it's neuroprotective. So, it's almost like you have a force field while you're traveling, right? And then, of course, the Sandman to reset your circadian rhythm. And then we're also utilizing something called GlutaStat, which is a nasal's antimicrobial nasal spray.

Ben:  Yeah. I want to get into the nasal sprays here in a little bit because I find those fascinating. I've actually been using GlutaStats, which also has N-acetylcysteine and still run it correct for just general antiviral preparedness.

But before we move on, there was one other compound I wanted to ask you about because there's a lot of chatter right now about its absorbability and bioavailability, and that's NAD. Some people are using sublingual NMN, some people are using oral NR. Obviously, people are getting NAD IVs. You and I did an NAD patch yesterday, and I think that the transdermal absorption and the intravenous absorption is amazing compared to most of the oral delivery mechanisms out there. But I want to ask you, what about rectal? Could you theoretically use NAD rectally like you're doing with glutathione and melatonin, et cetera?

John:  Well, we have a NeuroNAD line and it's a nasal spray and it's also suppository. And so, I got involved with NAD early on before anybody really knew about it. It was the NAD conference in San Diego about five years ago or so. So, we started using it clinically. And so, we were charging up towards $1,500. And people would sit at the clinic and run this NAD IV. And you have to run it slowly, otherwise, you get these effects. And by the way, I did the fast push because I heard your podcast. I'm like, “Alright, I got to do this.”

Ben:  I've done 10 minutes.

John:  It was terrible, oh, my god.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. I just [00:46:54] _____ and it's a 500 milligram NAD push IV in about 30 milliliters of solution. And this is the type of thing you normally set for like two to three hours and solely drift into your system. You just grit your teeth, breathe, pull out a garbage can if you need to take a puke.

John:  Yeah, it's intense.

Ben:  It is intense.

John:  Yeah. I haven't been able to talk anybody into actually doing that.

Ben:  Yeah. It's kind of one of those, what doesn't kill you make you stronger things. I feel literally like that or like a cold ice bath or a Tabata set on the bike, any of these things that are somewhat difficult to do. You just don't do them because you're a masochist. I think there's something to be said for the psychological and mental strength built through on occasion and just like doing the hard thing, including–and I think–do you know Dr. Craig Koniver?

John:  Yeah, I've heard of him, yeah.

Ben:  Okay. So, he really feels that the slightly unpleasant response to an NAD IV is something that actually is beneficial for the nervous system and one of the reasons people feel so good afterwards. Then there are other doctors who want to be a little bit kinder and they'll co-administer methyl donors with their NAD, like betaine or trimethylglycine or S-adenosyl methionine. That's what Dr. Matt Cook does. And I've done that before, and you literally, you barely even feel the NAD.

John:  Right. Yeah.

Ben:  And apparently, you still get some of the benefits. But for some reason, I kind of like to feel it. I like that sensation knowing something's going on.

John:  I don't know if I buy into that. I haven't seen any research. I think maybe that's just his intuition. It could be.

Ben:  I think it is pure intuition, but yeah.

John:  Yeah. But we do put the trimethylglysate in the suppository.

Ben:  You do?

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  That was not a leading question. I do not know you did an NAD suppository.

John:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Interesting.

John:  Well, I haven't shared it with you yet because I'm trying to just trickle it to you.

Ben:  I know. They overwhelm you. There's so many things you make and there's obviously a lot more that I want to get into, and we already hinted at this idea of nasal administration and these nasal sprays. Like last night, let's start with this one, like you and I did a meditation and breathwork session. And I have done kambo in the past. And in a kambo ceremony, the frog poison where you burn the skin and have a little bit applied to the burnt hole on the skin to really clear the head prior to that or a lot of other plant medicines around this, like Ayahuasca would be another example. There's a South American–I don't know if it's an herb or a plant or a tobacco variant, or what, but it's called Hape. And I think it's spelled R-A-P-E, right?

John:  Either one, Hape or Rape.

Ben:  Hape, Rape, and incredible head-clearing effects. And normally, it would be like a ground-up powder that a shaman would breathe up into your nose and burns up deep in the skull and sticks with that burn for a good 10, 15 seconds, then all of a sudden your head's clear as a bell. And you figured out how to do like a modern newfangled version of that.

John:  Yeah. Well, first of all, the kambo frog. Probably a lot of people listening to this have no idea what that is. I heard about that a few years ago, and actually, we're utilizing that with some of our infection cases. I forget how many times stronger than morphine it is. You feel good after you do a kambo session, but you don't feel good while you're on it.

Ben:  I know.

John:  You get sick.

Ben:  It's a very powerful hormetic stressor.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  And a lot of times, you curl up in a ball for like 15, 20 minutes after you do it and just like fall asleep. So, they call it kambo nap.

John:  Right. And you want to purge too, so it's common for people. You really start throwing up.

Ben:  If you get the amount that you, I think, need to get the effect, you purge. Like usually, there's a five-gallon bucket for them.

John:  I've actually figured out how to microdose it. And so, I'm able to get people just to the point where they don't even purge. And you get all the beneficial effects if you do it in a lighter dose as well.

Ben:  Same thing burning the hole on the skin, that way?

John:  Yeah. That's the only way because I think if you ingest it, it could kill you. So, probably that's —

Ben:  You're not going to do like a Kambo suppository?

John:  No.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  I've now have thought about it. I've thought about it, but I think that I don't want to be the first to explore something —

Ben:  Which I guess probably to hold the suppository in your ass —

John:  For me, number one is safety. I don't want to take any chances with myself or any of my patients.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. That's reasonable. So, this Hape, what's it called, the Zen spray?

John:  Yeah. So, I have a colleague. He's an MD and he's living with a tribe in the Amazon, and he's really excited because all these different Amazonian tribes have their own blend of herbs and they use it in ceremony. And so, he was excited about this particular blend and he sent me some. And so, I was using it and it's a very strong effect when you inhale it in the powder. Very intense. But again, like you said, you feel good afterwards and there was something to it. I really had to take a dive into it and what I figured out is that it's an autonomic activation. So, you're actually strengthening your vagus nerve. And so, it's strengthening vagal tone. And so, that's why you feel so relaxed and clear because you're more calming down the sympathetic nervous system and activating the parasympathetic nervous system.

Ben:  Yeah. Exactly. Well, Dr. Koniver again, to bring him up, and he's been a former podcast guest, he was a guy who in the past had sent me some nasal sprays and I had used, for example, his compounded ketamine combined with oxytocin, which both my wife and I find to be fabulous for sex. And then, you compounded this Hape with oxytocin, which is kind of like a feel-good trust hormone, makes your tactile sensation feel amazing. And I actually use some of that before sex. So, the ketamine disinhibits you, but it's very relaxing. Whereas this stuff was just–it amped me up, but then made the sex feel amazing too with a super clear head. So, I don't know if you've ever compounded it and used it for something like that. But this Hape oxytocin blend, I've never used anything like that before. It's amazing.

John:  Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. And it's also really good for a meditation as well. So, the two ways that I'm finding it popular to be used as an entrance into meditation, and also during breathwork, like with some Wim Hof breaths. And we did that with some breathing exercises in your sauna where we're doing some very, very rigorous breathwork. And then right before the breath-hold, we used the spray, right?

Ben:  Right.

John:  So, you're just getting this just hyperactivation of the vagal nerve.

Ben:  Yeah. I felt as though the clearness in the head allowed for almost like an amplification of the natural DMT release that you get from that form of breathwork. So, I think pairing that–and even before our session last night where we used it for the–we did about 25-minute breathwork session. I had used it probably a good 8 to 10 times prior for breathwork and it's amazing for breathwork or meditation, just because your head goes clear as a bell.

John:  Well, I think I stumbled across–one morning, I was on my couch and I was doing Wim Hof and I had the Zen there and I'm like, “Let me try to blend these two together.” And I was so excited about it. I think I texted you, right? I did a group text because there's a few of us that were beta-testing it a few months ago. And yeah, it's really nice.

Ben:  Yeah. This MD who lives in the Amazon, by the way, I think you left out one part. Isn't he like the only white man or something like that who's actually able to access these Amazonian secrets? Because we have a mutual friend, yet to be unnamed, he's like my personal facilitator/shaman, amazing guy. I'm hoping someday I can get him on the podcast. And he filled me in on that guy that lives in the Amazon who has access to these medicines that normally none of us would be able to get.

John:  Right.

Ben:  So, it's very interesting.

John:  It's very special. Yeah, it's very special. We're very fortunate to have it. We don't have so much that it's scalable to a huge degree. So, it's in a limited quantity.

Ben:  Yeah. What else can you use in nasal spray besides Hape and oxytocin?

John:  Well, NAD, we already talked about that, glutathione. We also have a peptide NeuroMax, which has Cmax in it. So, it's like brain-enhancing. And then, the antimicrobials I think is really helpful for a lot of different upper respiratory–

Ben:  And Matt Cook and I actually recently talked about this on a podcast about the issue with biofilm in the nasal passages.

John:  I'm glad you brought that up. So, a lot of people don't ever address that and you've got like this flypaper sticky material called biofilm that the bacterial producing. So, whatever you're breathing and the air is just getting stuck into your sinuses. So, everybody really needs to consider some sort of a sinus hygiene, right? And so, a sinus hygiene could be a Neti pot where you're just using saline. You could use colloidal silver. Some people put iodine in their Neti pot. We have a product called GlutaStat, which has emulsified sage, oregano, clove leaf, bay leaf, and it's got some [00:56:33] _____.

Ben:  That's the stuff I've been nebulizing.

John:  So, we have a formula that docs like to nebulize it. A lot of the people that utilize our product line are physicians, and then they give it to their patients. So, using nebulizers is a way for these doctors that are utilizing the GlutaStat to actually get deep into the sinuses, and also into the lungs.

Ben:  Yeah. And I want to talk about nebulizing in a moment, but kind of like suppositories, because a lot of people know how to swallow capsule, but might not have known how to use a suppository until we explained it. Same thing with nasal spray. How do you do it? Do you need to cover one nostril and breathe in? How long do you need to like snort it in for? What's the proper way to get the most out of a nasal spray if you're going to use one?

John:  Well, if you can time it where you breathe in at the same time that you're squirting, that's helpful. And so, you place the nasal spray nozzle at the opening of the nasal passage, and then you cover the other nostril, and then you spray it. And you don't want to breathe too hard in because it's just going to go straight through the sinuses. So, if you want it to kind of coat your sinus cavity, you're going to want to probably do like an inhale medium. And then let it sit there. Don't sniff really hard, let it sit and coat the sinuses.

Ben:  Do you ever think about which nostril that you breathe it into? Because in Ayurvedic medicine, when you breathe in through the right nostril, you're activating more–it would be parasympathetic. When you're breathing through the left nostril, it would be more sympathetic. So, could you theoretically say, “Okay, well, this is like an upper that I'm going to be using as a nasal spray, therefore, the left nostril would be most appropriate”?

John:  Well, Ben, now you're starting to get into the functional neurology stuff. We'll even put like peppermint oil on just one side of the nostril because it does balance the brain when there's a deficiency on one side.

Ben:  Yeah. I actually have, for those of you who want to take a deeper dive into the beauty of the nostrils, the fact that they are literally erectile tissue and which nostril to breathe into to activate different systems like sympathetic or parasympathetic, go listen to my podcast with James Nestor, the author of the book “Breath” because we actually geeked out on that for about 15 minutes, about the nostril and how to tweak which nostril you breathe through if you're doing alternate nostril breathing. It's really interesting.

John:  That's fascinating. I haven't listened to that one yet.

Ben:  It's not out yet. It doesn't go out 'til next week.

John:  Oh, gosh.

Ben:  It will be out there before this one comes out. Okay. So, the nasal spray. And then the last question is, how deeply or intensely, and for how long do you need to breathe in after you administer a spray?

John:  Well, once it's in there, you want to just let it sit. And so, if you feel like you need to sniffle in, try to do it gently.

Ben:  Because I just really snort it hard.

John:  I know you. Yeah.

Ben:  I don't need to be doing that?

John:  No.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  No, because you're just getting it straight through down into the throat.

Ben:  That's why I'm tasting it in the back of my throat.

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  Okay. So, just breathe it in that I don't have to really help it after that?

John:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Alright. Good to know. Okay. Do you need to be tilting the head forward or anything like that, head forward versus head back?

John:  Yeah. I mean, that's the posture when you're holding it with your hands. It's not necessary to extend your head, but just a normal position of the head.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  I haven't really seen there'd be a big difference with head position as far as nasal spray.

Ben:  Okay. Now, nebulizing. We've talked about suppositories, we've talked about nasal sprays, and then there is nebulizing. For people who have never heard of that or aren't familiar with the term, what is nebulizing?

John:  Okay. So, nebulizers are some–it's a way for us to get medicine into patients. And so, what the nebulizer does is it puts a liquid into a tiny fine mist, and then you can breathe that in. And so, it's going to affect absorption through the nasal passage, but you're also going to get some absorption through the lungs. And there's actually quite a bit absorption into the bloodstream through the lungs when you breathe the nebulizing particle, particulate in.

Ben:  So, you're not just doing this for the respiratory tract, it's actually getting into the bloodstream?

John:  Yes.

Ben:  Okay. So, the nebulizer, I think the first time I used one was actually at Dr. Matt Cook‘s. He had me nebulizing glutathione, I believe. Again, for some of the reasons we discussed, biofilm, nasal passages. In terms of the way that it works, you get like a little mask and you can buy a nebulizer on Amazon, for example, right?

John:  Right.

Ben:  And this is different than a nebulizer for essential oils. You don't want to get just an essential oil nebulizer, you want one with a mask that you put over your face, and then you would put your nebulizing fluid into a little chamber that a tube is connected to between the mask and the chamber. And then you turn on the nebulizer and it basically creates like a fine particulate that you would then breathe in.

John:  Then you breathe in, yeah.

Ben:  Do you breathe in through your mouth, or do you breathe in through your nose?

John:  Well, it depends, right? So, for those listening, the way I see it is if you want to affect the upper respiratory tract or you're looking for something more neurological like for brain, you're going to want to nebulize or nasal spray. If it's more like a full-body, the suppositories work a little bit better. I think that you're going to get more content into the bloodstream through the suppositories.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  But if anybody is dealing with like–if they feel like they're coming out with the flu or they have like upper respiratory infection, so that's how we started to formulate the GlutaStat was I got really sick. At the time, I was crewing for Tony Robbins. And this flu was like a two-week brutal —

Ben:  [01:02:20] _____ do the high-fives with?

John:  Yeah. Well, I was medical crew. So, I was the guy that when people would start flipping out and going into convulsions because they're doing some of the activities with Tony, I would have to go and do CPR and stuff.

Ben:  Then give a high-five when they get revived.

John:  And then high-five, yeah, yeah. But it was a responsibility and I felt like I really needed to step up to the plate and go even though I was starting to get sick. So, I started to formulate these different antimicrobials into–and started nebulizing. And literally, I was nebulizing it every, I think, 20 minutes. And the next day, I woke up and I had zero symptoms, like it just wiped it out. And so, I knew I was on to something after that. And so, since then, I've been introducing this much into my practice, but a lot other doctor's practices because when you start to get sick, this is where it starts, it starts in the sinuses, it seeds there, and then it gets into the bloodstream from that point down the throat, and then into the lungs, right? So, if you can stop it right there with an antimicrobial right where–because if you take something orally, you take an antibiotic orally, it's going to throw the whole body. And so, a lot of times, these bacteria or viruses or mold, they're kind of stuck in that biofilm in the sinus cavity or in the nasal cavity as well.

Ben:  So, you could utilize this if you feel like you've been exposed to airborne pathogens, if you've been in a heavily polluted area, if you're concerned about viral exposure. And from what I understand, the lungs don't actually have much of their own built-in antioxidant system. So, you're essentially supplying the respiratory tract with anti-oxidants that it normally would not be able to produce itself.

John:  Right. Yeah.

Ben:  Now, what, aside from something like glutathione and N-acetylcysteine, do you utilize for nebulizing, or is that kind of your–oh, that and silver I suppose is the other one you mentioned?

John:  Yeah. So, the two primary things that docs are using to nebulize with their patients are the GlutaGenesis, and that's really high glutathione content liquid. And then there's the GlutaStat, which is more anti-microbial. I mean, those are the two primary routes that we're going with the nebulizing.

Ben:  Okay. And nebulizers aren't that expensive, are they?

John:  Oh, no.

Ben:  Forty, 50 bucks, something like that on Amazon?

John:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. And not to put you on the spot, but if somebody wanted to buy a bottle of the GlutaStat, like this stuff I've got on my desk right now, how much does something like that cost?

John:  I think it's about 120, 119.

Ben:  Okay. Yeah. I've been using it for like a month. I'm not even halfway through the bottle. So, I feel like it's got pretty good life. Should I have it in the refrigerator, by the way?

John:  Yes. The GlutaGenesis, you should, not the GlutaStat. The GlutaStat is pretty stable outside the fridgerator.

Ben:  Okay, sure. Whatever is in my office. I think it's the GlutaStat.

John:  Yeah, yeah. You're good.

Ben:  Okay.

John:  Yeah, you're good with that.

Ben:  Okay. Alright, yeah. Okay. So, this is obviously stuff that goes way beyond encapsulation technology, and the pills that people are used to popping. And I think compared to intravenous administration, which is highly efficacious, but again, not a lot of people are going to mess around with needles or have a practitioner come to their house to oversee that, I think this stuff is very convenient.

John:  Something I was thinking about, because when I was in your hyperbaric oxygen chamber, I actually did a Lucitol before I went in there, and you can't sit there and run an IV in a hyperbaric. But you think about the advantage of having those nutrients flowing through your blood while you're in a hyperbaric to push that deeper into the cells?

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what you need to do then is you need to figure out some kind of like arginine, or citrulline, or nitric oxide precursor delivery for hyperbaric use because that's the issues is there is some vasoconstriction that occurs at pressure. If you can vasodilate in conjunction with that pressurized oxygen, that would be a cool one for hyperbaric, would be some kind of a suppository that's basically like a nitric oxide precursor.

John:  Have you heard of the IV laser that they're doing, intravenous laser?

Ben:  I don't think so.

John:  So, we call it LumoStem. And so, we have —

Ben:  Oh, yeah. It's similar like ultraviolet blood irradiation?

John:  So, it's a machine and we're able to actually direct laser into a vein. And we use infrared, ultraviolet, red, green, blue.

Ben:  Yeah. I do know what you're talking about. I've done that, a guy who's been on the podcast before, we actually podcasted while we were doing it, Ahvie Herskowitz down in San Francisco.

John:  Right. I think I heard that, yeah.

Ben:  Yeah.

John:  So, we've been at that for a while, and so the German doctor that pioneered this is really into providing photoactive nutrients like–curcumin is a big one, right? So, blue light in particular really activates that. So, once it's in your bloodstream, you can activate it with the light photobiomodulation.

Ben:  Right.

John:  So, I'm working with this doctor in Germany. He's actually going to be in my viral summit as well, Dr. Weber. This guy is a genius. And so, we're working on some suppositories because a lot of these things you don't find in IV. We actually have our curcumin IV, by the way, and it's amazing, but very expensive.

Ben:  Yeah.

John:  So, if you can get suppository for like 10 bucks or something.

Ben:  Interesting. What about some of these things that would upregulate cytochrome oxidase in mitochondria in response to photons of light? Could you also use something like that prior to the Lumomed? I'm talking about like chlorophyll from chlorella, or melanin from chaga, or methylene blue, like, could you take that orally and do something like the Lumomed?

John:  Well, I think the sublingual on the methylene blue, so we're using the methylene blue as well. We just started a protocol where we're giving people methylene blue and then we're using TRT machine. I think I turned you onto the guy that —

Ben:  Yeah. I haven't used it. What's the TRT stand for again?

John:  Tissue regeneration technology. So, it's an acoustic device and they're actually doing some studies on Alzheimer's in Europe where it's breaking up that amyloid plaque.

Ben:  Yeah. I actually did wind up trying that. It was over at the office of Dr. Phil Lenoue here in Spokane. They had a TRT they do the treatments.

John:  Right.

Ben:  My problem is since I quit racing Spartan and doing triathlons, I haven't really had much in the way of injuries. So, people ask me what hurts and there's not much to work on that's hurting, knock on wood. But yeah, that TRT is supposed to be amazing.

John:  It is.

Ben:  It's kind of like pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, but —

John:  What's nice about is it gets deep into the body. And so, you can do deep hip and spine because there's different acoustic wave devices. I'm sure a lot of people heard about the GAINSWave, but this is a different technology. So, it's literally the head of the device is it fills with water and you're using ultrasound gel. And so, we're using this for everything from ED to prostate conditions. I mean, some of the stuff we're doing for prostate is unbelievable. We're using ozone injections, we're using this TRT machine, game-changer for a lot.

Ben:  Well, that's all that you practice in Sarasota, you're doing that stuff?

John:  Yeah.

Ben:  Okay. The other thing I wanted to ask you about was you gave me this water last night, and I don't know if you're able to disclose anything about it, but you said it was holy water. And you even gave my wife some and she thought we were pranking her because you had it in a nasal spray and you had some that I actually drank orally in the sauna. Can you say anything about what this mysterious water is?

John:  I can't divulge this yet, I'm going to though. I mean, we're going to be bringing this to the United States, like it's big in China and they're utilizing this for —

Ben:  I don't know. Chinese haven't seen to have much luck lately.

John:  No, they haven't.

Ben:  They've had a hard go.

John:  But it's approved there for cancer and it's approved there–they're using it for viral infections as well successfully. But when I was sick with Lyme disease, this is probably going back 15 years ago, I had a doctor come by my office with this–it's a homoeopathic. And he did some injections. So, it comes in an injectable, and he injected around some of the joints that were sore, and it was just miraculous, like the pain went away, but this guy couldn't find it again. And so, Dr. Alex Smithers, he's a medical doctor that works with me in Sarasota, Florida, he found this company. And so, we've reconnected with them.

And so, in talking to the doctor that formulated this, he was basically buying art in the Middle East, right? And so, he found this pamphlet in scripted language. He had it translated and it was some sort of a healing remedy. And so, he started playing around with us, and that's where he developed this particular product. And then a few years later, I guess there's this true holy water. It's called Bethesda water, and it's got certain properties that they think that there was some sort of a fountain of youth that was in Jerusalem somewhere. And so, there's —

Ben:  You realize we've already lost like half our listeners? But keep going.

John:  I know. This sounds crazy.

Ben:  It sounds really woo.

John:  Well, so I'm not a big believer. We use homeopathy, but to me, homeopathy has always been subtle. This product is not subtle. This product gets some amazing results. Like for instance, even for me personally, like I've had bone marrow, I've had exosomes in my hip, and I still had some stuff going on. And so, I had this product injected into my hip and it's literally done the best that anything else has done. Dan Pompa was at my clinic a couple weeks ago and he's had exosomes and stem cells on his neck. He got a lot of results, but I talked to him a few days ago and he said–because we use this holy water injected into his neck combined with exosomes. And he's reporting to us that it's the best his neck has ever felt.

Ben:  Wow. Holy cow.

John:  And it comes in a drinkable. You can nebulize this stuff. It's a nasal spray. A lot of applications to it, but we could probably do a whole podcast on it.

Ben:  Wow. So, once you have a chance to develop it, and I assume it's not in production, you're just kind of playing with it right now?

John:  No comment.

Ben:  Okay. Alright. Well, I'll try and keep the shownotes updated at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/drjohn if you want to stay up to date on the holy water. And that's also where you can leave questions about any of the stuff we talked about.

Anything else you're excited about right now?

John:  Yeah. So, we started to play around with ozonated saline, actually. So, the Russians kind of started to pioneer this procedure where there's a–it's like a glass tube, and you put sterile water in there and you bubble ozone through the water, and then you run it intravenously. And we've been using 10-pass for probably, I want to say almost five years. So, we've got into it —

Ben:  Ten-Pass Ozone? Yeah. Which I've done some pretty thorough podcasts on before.

John:  Right. So, anybody listening to this, there's different ways that you can utilize ozone and there's all these different benefits that ozone has. We don't need to get into all that, but it has a lot of benefits. And so, dosage wise and safety-wise, there's different ways that you could administer ozone, and 10 pass seems to be one of the highest levels where you take about 200 ccs of blood out of the body. And then under pressure, you mix it with ozone and then it's allowed to go back into the body. And we've just seen remarkable improvements with Lyme disease and some autoimmune and so forth with that. But we started to play around with this other procedure we're calling RejuvenOx. And so, what we're doing is we're IVing this ozonated saline and we're actually IVing high-dose magnesium at the same time, and then we're putting them in this pod device called a CVAC. Have you ever heard of the CVAC?

Ben:  Yeah. Alternating high and low pressure.

John:  Yeah. So, this machine is fascinating. It uses ambient air. And there's a lot of the same benefits of hyperbaric oxygen chamber, but it's a lot easier to use. It's only a 20-minute session.

Ben:  And it's like you're going like up to the top of Mount Everest and back down multiple times, right?

John:  So, it's the pressure changes, and that's where all the benefit happens. And so, we like it because it really helps to open up the body to circulate nutrients. It's also very powerful with the glymphatic system. So, you're able to kind of flush a lot of things through the nervous system that way, and it also stimulates. They've done some studies where it actually activates stem cells.

Ben:  Oh, wow.

John:  It activates mitochondrial biogenesis. I mean, all the things that you want.

Ben:  That's called RejuvenOx?

John:  The RejuvenOx is the combination of all those three, the high-dose magnesium, the ozonated saline, and then the CVAC afterwards.

Ben:  Interesting. There's a lot of cool protocols that one can get done at a clinic like that, but I also like this idea that you can use something like a nasal spray, suppository, nebulizer, and some of this stuff you can get pretty good effects from, just [01:15:36] _____ go to the doctor, which a lot of people really can't travel right now, or at least during the time we're recording this. But the clinic in Florida, if people wanted to like fly in and see you, are you still taking new patients or are you hardcore into the nasal sprays and suppositories now?

John:  Well, you know, Ben, that's one of the reasons that we kind of formulated these things because we were able to ship them out and send them to people all over the world, where we can only treat so many people in the clinic. But we're also able to use these products because I was looking at like, “What do I need clinically for some of these really difficult cases?” And that's how a lot of these formulas came to be. But yeah, we are accepting new patients.

Ben:  Alright. Well, you want to get excited about something besides this podcast, which I think is going to change a lot of people's lives because honestly, whenever I find cool new shit, I just love to turn people onto it. It just makes me smile and I think people are really going to get a lot of benefit out of this stuff. They start to try it. And again, you guys listening in, I'll put this all at BenGreenFieldfitness.com/drjohn, D-R-J-O-H-N. But the other thing I'm excited about is I want to give you a preview of tonight because it's going to be amazing.

John:  Okay.

Ben:  That's what we're going to do tonight. You guys listen so you know what an evening at the Greenfield house is like. I got two other doctors coming over, a guy who runs the local wellness clinic that I think you were able to see yesterday.

John:  Dr. Love.

Ben:  Dr. Love. Dr. Love of the wellness [01:16:58] _____. Amazing juice bar, smoothie bar, natural medical clinic in Spokane. And then, my friend, Cameron Chesnut, who I used to race triathlon against back in the day, big Ironman guy and now he's a cosmetic surgeon here in Spokane. And then my wife–and I think Cameron's wife might come over, too. So, we're going to do sauna and we're going to go down there in skies and just like chillax in the sauna. We can bring some of the sprays down there if you want some sprays and we'll spend like 30, 40 minutes just sweating it out and catching up in the sauna. I'd like to do that versus just like drinking beers on the couch.

And then, we'll go hit the cold tub. We'll give people the option to do the 35-degree Morozko Forge or the big old cold pool, do a bit of cold therapy. And then we're going to finish up with some of the hot tub. So, you're already going to feel amazing after that. And then my wife is making one of her signature recipes that I absolutely love, beer-can chicken. So, she's got two big old organic chickens–beer-can chicken.

John:  Oh, wow. What a treat.

Ben:  We're going to do sweet potato.

John:  Jessa is an amazing cook, by the way, oh my gosh.

Ben:  Oh, yeah. If I weren't into fitness, I'd be morbidly obese. And then we're going to do a bunch of organic red wine. We have a nice, healthy dessert, play some music.

John:  Awesome.

Ben:  This is going to be amazing.

John:  You've got a good voice, by the way.

Ben:  Thanks.

John:  Yeah. I was shocked. Like you invited me up when you sang to your kids like for bedtime and it was just like–I mean, your voice is incredible. Have you ever sung in front of your clan here on a podcast?

Ben:  I have. And actually, a couple of things, A–and I could sing something if you want me to, but you'll have to tell me a song and I'll have to remember the words.

John:  “Stairway to Heaven.”

Ben:  Dr. Matt and Cook–Dr. Matt and Cook, Dr. Matt Cook, he and I got a country music album.

John:  Okay.

Ben:  So, our band is called Rocky Roots. And I think it's Rocky Roots–I'll put a link in the–if you just search Rocky Roots Ben Greenfield, you'd find it. So, we got that. I am trying, during this quarantine, to record another country music album of old-timey hymns because I just love kind of like the Alan Jackson approach.

John:  Yeah. You do have a country–

Ben:  Yeah.

John:  Yeah. There it is, there it is.

Ben:  Yeah. So, how about this? We'll sing people out on a nice, nice little uplifting tune. I'll give you guys a few verses and you could say goodbye to Dr. John and me, and please visit the shownotes because I'm going to put everything that you need to know about Dr. John there, and he'll send me any additional study. Send me the mouse photo, too.

John:  Oh, yeah.

Ben:  For sure.

[Ben singing “Amazing Grace”]

John:  Beautiful. Amazing voice.

Ben:  Alright, you guys. We love you. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. John Lieurance —

John:  Thank you so much for having me, Ben. This has been incredible.

Ben: –signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week. Alright.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.



Dr. John Lieurance is a naturopathic physician, chiropractic neurologist, and all-around expert in medical biohacking who has been in private practice in Florida for 25 years.

He is the chief scientific advisor of Glutagenic™ and Advanced Biome Corp™ and heads up Advanced Rejuvenation, a multi-disciplinary clinic with a focus on treating chronic diseases, regenerative medicine, functional neurology, functional medicine, and stem cell research.

Dr. Lieurance has spent most of his career focused on finding solutions for hearing loss, balance disorders, tinnitus, degenerative neurological disorders such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer's, autoimmune disease, chronic Lyme, CIRS, and mold illness and has suffered from chronic Lyme and mold illness himself for many years. From his treatments, he has seen the same success and ability to recover and regain a normal life—free from the chronic inflammation and pain associated with those disorders—in himself as well as in his patients.

During this discussion, you'll discover:

-Biohacking devices in Ben's home John loves…09:58


-How John became involved in the world of biohacking and natural medicine…10:30

-Benefits of suppositories…22:18

  • John used high dose glutathione suppositories when he was sick with Lyme and mold with great efficacy
  • Peak plasma: the substance remains in the system for 6-7 hours (vs. 1 hour with an IV)
  • Glutathione and Uridine promote sleep (in the Sandman suppository)
    • Promotes body repair and enhances sleep biology
  • Slow-release via rectal absorption; peak occurs more gradually
  • Bypass gastric juices and enzymes that harm the nutrients
  • “First pass through the liver”
  • Kind of like an on-the-go IV; get the benefits while going about your business
  • Keep in the refrigerator to maintain the consistency (Glutagenesis)
  • Suppositorywill release for 5-7 hours
  • Lucitol (use code BEN to save 5%) contains polyphenols; good for the brain and inflammation
  • Glutamax (glutathione) (use code BEN to save 5%)
  • StemTor (mTor activator) (use code BEN to save 5%)

-Bacteria as ingredients…33:53

  • Bacteria should be in the large intestine, not the small intestine
  • Improves the microbiome
  • With specific strains to assist in the absorption of some ingredients
  • Some strains to assist with glutathione absorption; some to assist with CBD and hemp

-Things you don't know about melatonin…35:09

  • There's no toxic level of melatonin, nor concern with disrupting the body's natural rhythms
  • Super physiological dosing
  • Melatonin could be a very helpful substance for coronavirus
  • ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) creates an “inflammazone,” which leads to a cytokine storm (melatonin calms down the “inflammazone”)
  • Russell Rider, MD, one of the leading experts on melatonin
  • Travel Hacker kit (use code BEN to save 5%)
  • Neurodiol (use code BEN to save 5%)
  • Glutastat (use code BEN to save 5%)

-Uses and benefits of NAD…45:27

-Nasal and breathing sprays Ben and John Lieurance recommend…49:36


  • Kambo session – burn frog skin and breathe in the aroma (far more powerful than morphine) (use code BEN20 to save 20%)
  • Rapé (pronounced “ha-peh”)
    • Compounded with oxytocin for a feel-good and enhanced sexual effect
    • Combined with breathwork and meditation
  • Zen Mist with Rapé (use code BEN to save 5%)
  • NAD (use code BEN to save 5%)
  • GlutaStat (use code BEN to save 5%) in a nebulizer
  • Proper administration of a nasal spray:
    1. Breathe in with the spray
    2. Ayurveda – right nostril activates more sympathetic; left is parasympathetic
    3. Let it sit, no need to snort
    4. Normal position of the head (no need for fancy head positions)
  • Podcast with James Nestor on alternate nostril breathing:
  • Breath by James Nestor:
  • Nebulizing:
    • Puts a liquid in a mist, which is breathed in
    • Absorption through the lungs, which goes into the bloodstream
    • Sickness begins in the sinuses; nebulizing (mini Ultrasonic nebulizer) allows a localization for the medicine
    •  N-acetylcysteine (in Glutastat – more of an anti-microbial) and silver (in Marcons A&B) are the most commonly nebulized compounds

-New laser technology to administer compounds…1:06:59

-The mysterious “holy water” John formulated…1:10:09

  • Approved for cancer in China
  • Dr. Alex Smithers
  • Used for viral infections
  • Homeopathic remedy
  • Bethesda water contains “fountain of youth” properties
  • Can be drinkable, sprayed or nebulized

-What Ben and John are excited about right now…1:13:34

-And much more!…

-Upcoming Events:

Resources from this episode:

– Dr. John Lieurance:

– Podcasts, Articles, And Studies:

– Gear:

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

Kion Clean Energy Bars: Satisfying, nutrient-dense, real-food energy bars with a delicious chocolate coconut flavor! BGF listeners receive a 10% discount when you use discount code BEN10.

–Beekeeper's Naturals: A wellness company specializing in innovative nutraceuticals made from healing hive compounds and plant-based ingredients. Get 15% off your order when you use discount code BEN.

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