[Transcript] – Everything You Need To Know About Protein Powders, Amino Acids, Animal Vs. Plant Protein, How Much Protein You Need & Much, Much More With Kion’s Angelo Keely.

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://BenGreenfieldFitness.com/podcast/protein-powder-podcast/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:52] Podcast Sponsors

[00:02:50] Guest and Podcast Introduction

[00:05:31] Epic Mornings and The Pumpkin Spice Colostrum Cake

[00:09:45] Angelo Keely: A World-Renowned Expert On Protein

[00:15:22] How Angelo Keely and his health transformation caused a hyper-focus on protein and amino acids

[00:28:42] Podcast Sponsors

[00:31:34] Overview Of The Different Types Of Amino Acids

[00:39:46] Creatine As An Amino Acid

[00:42:05] The Appropriate Amount Of Protein And Aminos To Intake

[00:50:10] The Ranking Of The Quality Of Animal-Based Protein Sources

[00:58:48] The Good And Bad When It Comes To Protein Powders

[01:08:12] Concerns And Problems With The Safety Certifications

[01:12:23] The Long History Of Whey Protein

[01:16:08] How to get a protein powder that doesn't taste like ash

[01:25:12] Closing the Podcast

[01:26:49] Legal Disclaimer

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast.

Angelo:  To the surprise of many, there is not a grass-finished whey protein isolate. Anyone who says that there is lying to you. If you see a grass-fed whey protein isolate that is half the cost of all the other ones, there's a reason why. Everyone's trying to critique it and somehow make a case about how it's bad. And, it withstood the test of time. If you just look at the science over the last 40 years, it is the superior protein powder.

Ben:  Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

This podcast is, of course, brought to you by Kion, my company and my playground for all things health and wellness. It's a company I created a scratch my own itch. We blend ancient wisdom with modern science to create pure efficacious shotgun formulations of supplements and functional foods. Every single product is researched back, real-world tested. We design everything to empower people to live a long and adventurous and joyful and fulfilling life. You can go over there and get everything from our protein powder to our coffee, to our bar. And, 20% off site-wide on your first order. Anything from Kion. It basically looks like my pantry. My pantry is full of Kion, so yours can be too. Go to getkion.com/BenGreenfield. That's getK-I-O-N.com/BenGreenfield.

This podcast is brought to you also by Organifi. Organifi Green Juice with 11 different superfoods like ashwagandha, and moringa, and chlorella, and matcha, and turmeric, and spirulina, and mint, and beets, and wheatgrass, and lemon, and coconut. And, it's all done for you, so you don't have to chop or prepare any of that stuff. And, you would think when you mix all that together in a giant bottle that it would taste like butthole but it actually is amazing. You can sprinkle it. You can use it as a meat rub, believe it or not. You can put it on salads to amplify the nutrient density of a salad. You can, if you're like me, just put a little bit into some cold water in a Nalgene bottle and shake it up and get for pennies on the dollar for what you'd pay at a local cold-press juicery, a giant bottle of green juice. Go to organific.com/ben for 20% off. That's Organifi, with an I, .com/ben. That'll get you 20% off of any of the goodies from my friends at Organifi.

Alright folks, as promised, it's protein time baby. So, get yourself strapped in to have all your burning questions about proteins and amino acids answered. I'm talking how much protein you need and the difference between all the different kinds of protein powders out there and whey protein concentrate versus isolate, versus hydroxylate, which makes me sound really smart when I say it, how to choose the right protein for your needs, animal protein versus plant protein, the kind of weird history of whey protein, essential amino acids. Oh my gosh. I really, really hope that you got your thinking cap on today because we're going to take a deep dive.

My guest on today's show has been on this show before. He was on the episode entitled “What yoga trapezes, laser lights, kettlebells, mini-meditation and ketogenic doughnuts have to do with building in nutrition supplements empire.” That was doozy. And, I will link to that in the shownotes. His name, in case you hadn't guessed based on that rollicking introduction, is Angelo, Angelo Keely, the co-founder and CEO of Kion, and also a musician, a beatboxer, a rapper, a drummer, a very diverse guy, a dad most importantly. I don't know. Angelo, do you want me to like give your full-on bio? Should I go tell people to listen to the initial interview that we did? Or, I guess, we'll probably get into a little bit of it while we're chatting.

Angelo:  They can go back and listen to the original interview. It's good to be back.

Ben:  Yeah, it is. It is. And, lest I forget, the pretty link for the show, the nice convenient link that will take you to the shownotes is BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast, BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast.

You know old rule, Angelo, from spelling or grammar or whatever, I don't know if you learned this, but it goes like this. I before E except after C or in words that say nay as a neighbor or nay.

Angelo:  What's crazy is I never learned that second one. I just knew the C one.

Ben:  Yeah. So, that's the full thing. So, I before E except after C or in words that say nay as a neighbor or nay. So, I'm thinking about protein because it's not protein, but it's spelled P-R-O-T-E-I-N. It seems like I just realized it kind of breaks that rule.

Angelo:  It does break the rule.

Ben:  Protein breaks a lot of rules baby. That's crazy. So, yeah. Alright, that's it. That's your facts for the day.

Speaking of protein, dude, before we start talking about food and protein, and everything else, I always like to pick people's brains so to speak about something epic they did that morning, whether for breakfast or for workout or anything else. So, what would you do to get ready for this podcast?

Angelo:  It was a pretty typical morning, honestly, so I don't know how epic it was. I did go to bed at my bedtime last night. And so, I woke up at my kind of steady 4:00 am. And, you know what the most epic issue was I came downstairs to make a coffee and my espresso machine was broken. And so, I couldn't make an espresso, so I had to figure out how to grind coffee, make a drip coffee in the morning.

Ben:  What? In your teeth? You chew on it?

Angelo:  In my teeth? No.

Ben:  I did that once, one time before Spartan Race, I was desperate. I knew I needed my caffeine. I didn't have a grinder and I literally chewed-spit, chewed-spit, chewed-spit, chewed-spit, and then I made the coffee.

Angelo:  That's so Ben Greenfield. That's so on brand, man. No, I just used a grinder and tried to do it quietly. I had to go the other room and figure out how to grind it so it wouldn't be so loud. Yeah, man. And then, I meditated, went on a walk. I didn't lift weights this morning, but I'm going to this afternoon after this. I prepped for this a little bit.

Ben:  Because we got a lot of science to dive in. Did you so meditate on that cute little meditation cushion that's out in your garage?

Angelo:  I do. There's a little square one and then a little zafu thing I sit on top of. It's nice. It's comp–

Ben:  I know. Every time I go to visit the offices down there at Kion, everybody knows that Angelo makes me stay in his what's like your grandma's bedroom in your house? Is that what it's sufficiently considered?

Angelo:  That's what it was. But honestly now, it's become Genevieve, my daughter's bedroom.

Ben:  Okay. Yeah, because I wander down in the mornings to go do my hardcore kettlebell workout with one of your kettlebells or whatever, and I always kind of feel guilty because you're sitting there like a Zen monk on your meditation cushion. And, I always asked myself if I should have meditated longer when I'm with you. I don't know if I'm just judging myself harshly or what.

Angelo:  The answer is yes.

Ben:  Yes. The answer is always yes to that question.

Angelo:  The answer is always yes to that question. But you can do it anywhere. You don't have to be sitting down. You can be walking and talking.

Ben:  I kind of had a fail last night. This has to do with protein a little bit because the whey protein that you and I have been talking about a lot lately that we'll get into later would actually work in this recipe. But I really wanted to make the pumpkin spice colostrum cream cake last night. And, I ran out of time, but that that wasn't–Did you see this new recipe?

Angelo:  Oh, yeah, I did. Jeff, our editor, made it and brought it into the office at like 9:00 am and it was literally gone by 10:30.

Ben:  I'll post the recipe in the show notes, but basically, so colostrum which has been–I have two brand new baby goats out in the garage. So, I have like a refrigerator full of fresh goat milk and colostrum. I have more goat milk and colostrum from the actual goats. I know what to do with. And, I don't think I'm going to use that colostrum for this recipe because it's kind of all mixed in with the milk, but it's the colostrum powder from Kion and basically the frosting for this pumpkin spice cake, which has almond flour, and arrowroot flour, and pumpkin puree and everything as the base. The frosting is like colostrum, and cream cheese, and vanilla extract, and stevia and butter. And, I just know that it's probably going to be up there with me for carrot, as carrot cake is one of my top desserts but I have yet to make it. I had cake this morning for breakfast, but maybe tomorrow, we'll see.

Angelo:  Yeah. I always feel like the thing that makes cakes really work or not work is if you go out and buy a cake, it's always just too sweet. I can't even eat like a bite of it. It makes me feel sick. But this recipe, this icing, it's just barely sweet. It's so good, man. It's delicious.

Ben:  Yeah. I'm probably going to put some of the vanilla whey protein though into the frosting just to try to amp up the protein of the cake and make it so that I can actually have cake for breakfast but call it like a health food.

Angelo:  Well, that's literally what I did. I was like, “Man, this cake, I don't want to miss out on this in the morning. I don't want to be this lame person who just skips this opportunity.” So, I cut myself off a little piece and I had it for lunch with a big dose of protein powder. And, I was like, “That's good.”

Ben:  That automatically makes it healthy.

Angelo:  Yeah, it automatically makes it healthy.

Ben:  Yeah. So, protein, I know you've been getting deep into protein and you've been doing a ton of research on like protein and amino acids. I mean, when we were driving around Sedona a few months ago when we did like our cute little man retreat down in Sedona, I mean, you got deep in the leucine and the histidine and lysine ratios, and some of the ways that we've changed up some of the amino acid formulations that we've been working on at Kion, but in terms of just the overall aspect of why this whole topic is important to you in the first place. I know that we said we wouldn't get into your whole back history, but you not only kind of were raised as a health nut hippie, but you've also kind of been diving into a lot of interesting things in terms of weight loss and muscle gain, and over the past year or so. So, diving into where you're at right now as far as kind of your personal journey leading up to you suddenly becoming one of the world's leading experts on protein.

Angelo:  I like that, one of the world's leading experts on protein. I definitely take enough protein or eat enough of it to be classified–

Ben:  That's what I like to think. I think I eat enough steak where I'm the world's leading expert on steak if eating it counts as vaulting you to expert status.

Angelo:  Yeah, it all depends on how you define expertise. It's definitely been a big part of my life. I was raised about as kind of all-natural health as you could be in the early '80s. My dad had been in the supplement business in the '70s, they owned a natural health food store. Yeah, I was born at home. I never went to a doctor. I never had vaccines. I never had a haircut. We were pretty crunchy. And, one of the parts of that too was I don't know exactly what motivated them at that point, but we were pescatarians. I was raised pescatarian. And so, we would eat fish two to three times a week. But when we weren't doing that, we were only eating a plant-based diet. And, my parents drove it into me at a really young age, the importance of mixing different types of plant protein sources to get a complete protein. So, I mean, when I was 4 or 5, I had that idea of a complete protein kind of cooked into my mind.

Ben:  You mean like mixing grains with rice with seeds with nuts? Basically, doing what a good little vegan or vegetarian should do if they want to get a full amino acid profile from mixing plant-based proteins.

Angelo:  Exactly. And, we can get into this more later. But certain plant proteins simply do not have all the essential amino acids. And so, if you don't eat a more balanced diet of multiple different types of plant protein sources, then you're going to have health problems. And, on top of that, my mom was obsessed with amino acids. I mean, we took all kinds of vitamins and botanicals and stuff as a kid. But the most I remember is amino acids like her giving me essential amino acids as a little kid.

Ben:  Seriously? So, not like branched-chain amino acids, but your mom was giving you essential amino acids?

Angelo:  Yes.

Ben:  Dude, she's way ahead of the game. That's crazy.

Angelo:  Yeah, they were obsessed. But they were pretty–again, they're fringy. My family was pretty into health. And, my mom was super into fitness. And so, she was a master swimmer. And, we would go to the gym. I guess, my local kind of community center was the gym, daycare. And then, when I was really young, I started taking classes there, et cetera. But yeah, I remember like every day should be taking her EAAs before she went to swimming and then giving it to me afterwards.

Ben:  I don't think you ever told me this. That's crazy.

Angelo:  Yeah. And, she'd be like, “Can't you feel it, Angie?” And, I could. So, I had this idea as a young kid taking aminos and being like, “Oh, I can feel it. I've got all this energy.” So, I must just admit from the front end that I'm definitely biased from my earliest upbringing around this stuff.

Yeah, man. So, I mean, that's my earliest childhood and then again, not going into too much detail but–

Ben:  By the way, as you're describing early childhood, I can nearly smell the patchouli wasting out from your microphone.

Angelo:  It was there. We didn't burn Patchouli incense because my dad didn't like it. But I remember go into other crunchy family's houses and they would have patchouli, and it would be like really strong and be like, “What's that smell?” But yeah, so by the time I got to high school, that was pretty cooked in. But then I had a pretty–again, I think on one of the previous episodes we talked about this, but I have this pretty traumatic accident, I got stabbed and beaten up real bad when I was 16. And, my patellar tendon got severed, my leg totally shrunk, and I was in a pretty long recovery coming out of that.

And, one of the key things I did–actually that's when I first started taking whey protein. And, by that point, I'd kind of transitioned out of the pescatarian-vegetarian thing that my parents had raised me, and just because, I don't know, meat was delicious. So, I started eating meat. And, yeah, I started taking whey protein every single day and it became part of my training. And, I attribute a lot of my recovery to that, to having sufficient daily protein.

Ben:  Having a good amino acid pool on hand for muscle protein synthesis.

Angelo:  Exactly, just to support the repair of all these tissues. So, that's the history of that piece.

And then, of course, when I met you and we started working on Kion, and we're launching Kion, I man aminos were the most obvious product. They're dear to your heart, they're dear to my heart. So, just obviously super aligned with that as a product. But I think one of the most interesting things is actually in this last year, really in 2020, I had a pretty significant health transformation. I have to admit, it's kind of a fit to fat to fit story or more like a kind of fat to really fat to fit-ish story that I–

Ben:  That is [00:15:38]_____ quite so well.

Angelo:  Well, it's not quite when I say the numbers. I lost 40 pounds and I got way stronger. And, it happened pretty fast. It happened really fast actually, like in just a few months. But I guess, I knew that there was a little bit of increase first. I think when the pandemic first hit, and there was just the stress of trying to run a business in that context and all the impacts on family, I probably gained 15 pounds. And, that was like, “Whoa, dude,” like, “You're not taking care of yourself, you're supposed to be running a health company. What are you doing?” And, I just really started looking at my diet, and my behaviors, and what I needed to do. I honestly followed a really simple recipe. I watched how many calories I consumed, I upped my daily protein intake to support muscle protein synthesis, to support the development of more lean body mass that would raise my resting metabolic rate. And, I walked and I did strength training. And, a big part of that too was compensating some of my big daily protein intake with amino acids with Kion Aminos.

Ben:  Which just allows you to get more and more protein with fewer actual calories, simply because you're cutting straight to the chase, you're just getting the amino acids without the actual calories that you might need from fish or meat. We'll talk about this later on, or even like whey protein. So, it's kind of handy from weight loss standpoint is basically the ability to be able to have a steak without the calories.

Angelo:  Exactly. If your primary goal, which my goal was at that point of time to develop lean muscle and to lose fat, then in taking a well-formulated essential amino acid, a 1 gram of well-formulated essential amino acid, you can basically take half the quantity that you would have to take of the most highly protein-rich protein source like a whey isolate. So, literally I can take half as many amino acids. So, yes, it's way more calorically efficient. It spikes muscle protein synthesis, it develops muscle, it satiates you.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, the other important thing is when you're talking about using protein as a weight-loss strategy, and the whole idea of calories in versus calories out is, of course, foundational to losing weight. And, this is relevant to what you're talking about in terms of the vegan-vegetarian plant-based strategy of mixing different grain, and rice, and seed, and nut sources to get your full protein profile, it's kind of fascinating this whole idea of what's called the protein leverage hypothesis, which is basically the idea that a human being will consume as many calories as are necessary to achieve your ideal nitrogen balance regardless of how many calories that it takes to achieve that amount of protein intake. Meaning, if you've got really poor quality protein sources or you're having to mix a lot of different foods such as you would need to do in a plant-based diet, to get the amount of protein that you need for the day, you are probably going to need to eat more carbohydrates, more fats and more calories overall to meet your protein requirement compared to if you've got access to higher quality protein sources that allow you to reach your nitrogen balance for the day without necessarily having to eat a lot of additional calories to get it in.

So, the idea is that you essentially have to eat more calories to reach your protein intake for the day if you're consuming low-quality protein sources or protein sources that you'd have to combine a lot of amino acids to get a full profile of your protein by the end of the day. So, this whole idea of the protein leverage hypothesis, the takeaway message of it is that if you're going through a weight loss phase, or you're wanting to keep your appetite satiated, then kind of getting closer to a higher protein intake combined with really good quality protein sources allows you to be more satiated appetite wise with a lower calorie intake versus if you're consuming poor quality protein sources having to mix a lot of foods to get your protein. So, it actually is a really good weight loss strategy to take and is something we'll talk about later on, I think, the average amount of protein most people need, which is about like 0.55 to 0.8 grams per pound-ish. If you're going through a weight loss phase, hitting closer to that 0.8 grams per pound will allow you to feel fuller, faster, and eat fewer calories to reach your need of nitrogen balance at the end of the day. It's called a protein leverage hypothesis. It's really interesting.

Angelo:  That is literally exactly what I did. I focused on my daily protein intake, hitting those higher protein quantities. At the same time, just having a general picture of how many calories I should be consuming in a day. And then, I honestly didn't worry about the rest of the calories, I just made sure I got that protein intake in and it did, it satiated me. I felt great.

Ben:  Yeah.

Angelo:  And honestly, I lost a bunch of weight and I got a lot stronger. And, that's one thing. I didn't just lose weight, I literally went from doing sets, I could do 10 pull-ups to maxing out 18 pull-ups, pure clean pull-ups which I had never done before. And so, being able to do that while you're also losing weight, it was pretty remarkable for me. And, really that's exactly it. It's focusing on that protein intake.

Ben:  How many amino acids where you eating each day like the essential aminos?

Angelo:  I mean, there was a time period when I would be taking–I could take up to 60 grams a day.

Ben:  Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot.

Angelo:  Yeah, I would never advise anyone else to do that. And, that's with not unlimited supply of amino acids but a lot. But there was definitely a time period where I was taking a lot of doses of 15 to 30 grams. And honestly, earlier on, and I was digging way deeper into the research around amino acids as well, thinking that I needed the full 30 grams and just that whatever the daily needs for someone's protein intake or if you divide that by about 5 or 6, hitting those doses of protein, every three hours creates the optimal, you know this better than anyone probably from being a bodybuilder in the past like you create these optimal muscle protein synthesis spikes that then last for about three hours. And, I was thinking I need around those 30 grams, but really with an EAA, you only need 15 grams at my body weight, and it creates that spike.

And so, I would do that at 9:00 am, have lunch at 12:00, do it again at 3:00, and then have dinner at 6:00. There were times when the 9:00 and 3:00 were I've take 20 grams or 30 grams, and I realized it wasn't worth it, it wasn't creating any added benefit for me.

Ben:  Yeah, I've been doing 40 grams a day because I got kind of a minimally invasive knee surgery about five weeks ago. And, I start taking 40 grams a day, but the way I've been doing it is with this Jell-O recipe I've been making. I call it my nighttime Jell-O recipe, but I started just having a little block of this Jell-O at different points throughout the day, like every three to four hours or so. But what I do with the Jell-O is I put a ton, I literally put–I think I just recently posted a video of me just dumping the entire canister of the Kion Aminos into the coconut water that I heat up as my base for the Jell-O. And then, Great Lakes, the company that makes gelatin-like grass-fed gelatin, they have a vanilla flavor of gelatin. And so, I add all the aminos, then a ton of gelatin coconut water, a little bit of allulose for added sweetening. And then, I just basically heat that all up, start-up, pour it into a Pyrex glass container, let it set in the refrigerator just because I get kind of tired.

And, I'm not a fan of mixing the aminos in the water as much as I am mixing them into something that's more chewable or with a little bit more consistency like a smoothie. But this Jell-O, oh my gosh, not only does this idea of consuming a gel, it's basically when you consume a gel-like substance, if anybody's looked into Gerald Pollack‘s research at University of Washington on the fourth phase of water and how water can be a gel, it's one of the best ways to hydrate yourself. But then, my rough calculations, that one big block of this Jell-O has about 10 grams or so of amino acids in it and around 15 to 20 of collagen. So, I'm just kind of feasting on this stuff at various points throughout the day and especially at night for satiating your appetite and kind of avoiding that 1:00 to 3:00 am-ish wakeup time that sometimes occurs when you're restricting calories or at least kind of cognizant of your overall calorie intake at dinner, just nukes that.

So, I think probably if you were to come up to my house in a few weeks that I'll mostly be subsisting on Jell-O and cake, Jell-O and colostrum cake. And, I'll probably be doing so with a big smile on my face.

Angelo:  I mean, I saw that recipe from you and I still haven't tried it. I am not quite the super motivated cook all the time, but I want it. I want to try it. It looks amazing.

Ben:  It literally takes no time flat to make. And, I make big batches of it now. And, I'm making two batches. Now, I keep one batch in the freezer. As soon as I run out of one, I go like I'm obsessed with.

Joel Greene kind of a nutrition guru who I interviewed a couple years ago, he's sworn by it for three years. And, when I interviewed on like, “Okay, I'm going to try it.” And, I kind of went on and off and then have just been hardcore eating this Jell-O every day, and especially at night before bed about the time I'd be pulling a–I have healthy ice cream in my freezer, but sometimes I'll reach for that at night. And, I'll grab one of these Jell-Os instead and just have no desire at all to snack on anything after I eat a chunk of this stuff. So yeah, that's why I've been getting the aminos in. But yeah, 60 grams is a lot. And, I think–

Angelo:  It was a lot. It's not necessary. Although you could. I mean, if I was in a really aggressive, it's not sustainable long-term. But if I was trying to be really aggressive or honestly if I was much older, some of the Dr. Robert Wolfe research actually shows that people over 65 that take 15 grams multiple times throughout the day, so probably not. Yeah, it could be up to four times a day in between meals, it greatly reduces the risks of sarcopenia, helps them not only maintain but build lean muscle at an older age. So, it can make sense, but for 37, it's probably overboard.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I mean, the idea first got into my head of kind of amping up the intake when I talked to two guys, David Minkoff, a guy who's done 40 plus Ironman triathlons, he's kind of an anti-aging doc down in Florida. And, this guy just lives on amino acids. And, he told me how he takes 40 grams of amino acids per day, and he's a super fit lean dude. And then, Mark Sisson, when I was done a Malibu few years ago, he came up to me when I was–I remember, I was having a smoothie outside sunlight down there, he's like, “Ben, I have this new thing I've been doing and it's amazing.” He's like, “I'm recovering from my ultimate frisbee matches, my skin, my hair, my nails is absolutely like the health of it.” And, Carrie, his wife, was doing the same thing. They were doing 40 grams of collagen a day. And, he's super into collagen. Minkoff was super into aminos, but I'm looking at these probably two of the fittest old dudes I know just hammering collagen and/or amino acids throughout the day. And, there's just something to it especially for the sarcopenia aging component. The fact that you absorb protein with less efficiently as you age anyways which can be hacked to a certain extent by taking a good protease-based digestive enzyme along with any protein you eat, which I think is just crucial if you're aging, and you want to stave off sarcopenia. But this whole idea of just higher than what would be expected intake of amino acids or collagen as you age, I think it's one of the best hacks out there for staying pretty swole, so to speak, because as you're getting older.

Angelo:  Totally. I mean, the only note I'd make on the collagen is that the collagen does not have that kind of essential amino acid profile of an EAA supplement, or whey isolate, or something like that. And, I know that's probably Mark's focus on it. He's talking about his skin, his hair, his nails, it's super high. We'll get into this right in a little bit with some non-essential amino acids, hydroxyproline, proline, glycine, which are what synthesizes into that stuff. And so, naturally, that's why it's become this magic beauty antiaging supplement collagen because it's super high in those. And, as we get older, our bodies don't metabolize those as well.

Ben:  Yeah.

Angelo:  We don't convert them out of essential amino acids as well. But if you want to get swole, it's got to be the essential amino acids.

Ben:  Due to COVID 19, I think I'm so glad to say on the podcast that this mineral that I use called Quinton, it's been back ordered, bunch of back-order delays. I don't know why people are drinking more minerals but they are. However, the company that I use and my go-to company for when I want to hack my water, they're now fully back in stock with all Quinton products, including their hypertonic, their isotonic, their sachets. Now is the time to order because these things sell out fast.

Robert Slovak who was a guest on my podcast when I interviewed him, get to know, he was working in the Brazilian rainforest to introduce these advanced water technology filtration systems. He got a life-threatening gastrointestinal illness, got put on Quinton and he was convinced he discovered one of the greatest medicines in history. And, it was discovered more than a century ago by biologists named appropriately enough, Rene Quinton. And, Quinton is pure seawater harvested from satellite monitored plankton blooms. It's cold sterilized to retain its healing properties, delivers naturally sterile bioavailable minerals and marine-rich complexes to your cells. It's a product of extremely high quality and purity. And, they have this stuff now back in stock at Water and Wellness. And, again, both kind of salty and then isotonic. And so, you can get different ranges of minerals if you want to.

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Something I had actually just this morning two giant scoops. Here's what I did, I make cacao tea every morning with this cacao tea made by a company called MiCacao. And then, I put it into a little NutriBullet, and this morning I blended it with stevia, a vanilla-flavored stevia, sea salt, a touch of cayenne pepper, and two giant heaping scoops of the Four Sigmatic Lion's Mane elixir. It's a pretty cool little blend. You got cacao, the sweetness of stevia, some sea salt, and then this wonderful elixir. The other thing you put in there is a little bit of vanilla extract.

Anyways, what Four Sigmatic does is they harvest the highest quality mushrooms, they extract the heck out of them to get all the wonderful medicinal components. It tastes great. There's no shroomy flavor. If that's not your thing, they have a money-back guarantee. And, this Lion's Mane elixir literally grows your brain, grows new brain cells. It's miracle grow for your brain. You get a 10% discount of anything from Four Sigmatic. You go to foursigmatic.com/ben. That's F-O-U-Rsigmatic.com/ben. You get 10% off of any order from Four Sigmatic. And, may I recommend to you as your mushroom sommelier, they're Lion's Mane extract. Enjoy.

So, essential amino acids, just to back up a little bit. And, I think now, I'd love to start getting into some of the more scientific aspects of this and get into the nitty-gritty of amino acids and protein. First of all, amino acids. Quick overview. And then, after you give a quick overview, can you differentiate between kind of the three different forms out there? Because you got BCAAs, which I call overpriced flavored water basically, but you can clarify what BCAAs are, versus EAAs, versus something that people may have heard of a little bit less NEAAs. So, what are amino acids? And, what were the different types between NEAAs, EAAs, and BCAAs?

Angelo:  Absolutely. And, I'll just start off by saying Ben, you've written so well about this. So, I think anyone that wants to dive into even more on this, they should just go read your blogs where they can get super detailed information because I think in this podcast, we can kind of bring it all together and paint the big picture. But, if we don't cover anything, you've just done an awesome job of covering it all. So–

Ben:  And, I'll link to that, BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast, all linked to the big aminos article and the big protein article I wrote recently. But for all the lazy people who aren't going to go read and who are like, I don't know, hike in the woods listening in, go ahead, dive in.

Angelo:  Yeah. So, I mean, high-level amino acids are the building blocks of all proteins in the human body. And, when you think about proteins in the human body, what most people don't realize is that that actually makes up 20% of our whole body and actually 50% of our solid body mass. So, it's actually the second largest component after water. So, amino acids are, they're a big deal.

And, in terms of what proteins do in the body, and that's what amino acids do, they support muscle protein synthesis, immune system regulation, neurotransmitter regulation, energy production, ATP at the cellular level, digestion, and absorption of nutrients. The list just goes on and on and on and on.

And, kind of getting into your question about, well, what's the difference between these different categories of them? There are 20 amino acids. Well, I guess some say there's 22 now, but there's basically 20. If you really want to dig into it, your audience can go and have that argument. But there's basically 20 amino acids responsible for making all the proteins in the human body. And, nine of those are essential. Essential meaning our bodies cannot make them, we must eat them, we must consume them exogenously.

And, all the other ones are not essential. And so, those we call nonessential amino acids. And, some of the nonessential amino acids could be also considered conditionally essential, meaning that they're normally not essential. Our bodies can make them if we just eat enough of the other essential amino acids, those nine. But sometimes if you're sick or you're an infant, you have some kind of issue or you're extremely old, sometimes they become conditionally essential.

So, really you just need to make sure you get these nine. And, those nine amino acids are going back to what we talked about earlier, they are what is part of a complete protein. So, if you eat a complete protein, most animal proteins. And, you actually can get them from plant proteins but you have to eat not all of them and you sometimes have to eat a ton of them to get them.

Going to your question about BCAAs, which are kind of and probably the most well-known specifically in the supplement industry, those are three of the nine essential amino acids. And, they're leucine, isoleucine, and valine. And, the reason why those three BCAAs have become so popularized and famous is really because of the main one, leucine, which has been closely tied with muscle protein synthesis. So, while these nine essential amino acids when you take them exogenously into the body, they support the production of all these different types of proteins. Sometimes they turn into other amino acids. Leucine is the one that really stimulates muscle protein synthesis. And thus, our bodies always breaking down our muscle and we need to consume more essential amino acids, especially leucine to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, to rebuild that muscle. And, leucine is kind of the key to that supported by these other two branched-chain amino acids And, BCAAs or branched chain, it's just the structure of the amino acid. And, those three are similar in that way.

So, you have to have these three together to do that. But the thing is, if you only take those three without all of the essential amino acids, you don't actually get the results. And, the science has come to be proven. Well, there's a lot of old research, but all the research, basically, especially the last 10 to 20 years has shown that if you only take one amino acid, and especially the branched-chain amino acids in isolation without the other six, then yeah, you can get kind of a boost in a workout but it actually can have a catabolic effect. It can actually break down your muscle because you need all of the nine essential amino acids to actually stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

So, I guess quick review, you got essential amino acids there, the nine, that you must take into your body. Nonessential amino acids are the other 11, some of them sometimes being conditionally essential. And, the branched-chain amino acids are three of those nine that have been popularized in supplements, et cetera, as something that you can or may want to take for exercise, for muscle protein synthesis. But as you and I agree, we would advise against.

Ben:  Okay. And, this is essentially kind of one of the fundamental reasons behind what you were talking about how your mom would mix different protein sources. Is it because by combining these protein sources, getting a complete amino acid profile that otherwise you wouldn't, maybe you just get some of the nonessential, not all the essential, maybe some of the BCAAs, not all the essential, et cetera, unless you combine all these different foods?

Angelo:  Yes. So, our bodies have developed in such a way that our bodies want essential amino acids together. It wants all nine of them together. And, when it gets all nine of them together, it's able to process them, and to synthesize them. And, to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, you can develop muscle. If you only get some of them, then your body, I mean, it kind of at the heart of the idea of them being essential. If you are only eating foods where you only get six of the essential amino acids, then core functions of your body are going to start to break down and your body's not going to be able to be healthy.

So, almost similar to maybe how–and again, I'm saying similar, it's not the same thing. Similar to how people think about a multivitamin or needing to eat a variety of different plants, protein sources, et cetera, to get all the different types of micronutrients that your body might need, we actually have this need in the macronutrient of protein. It's really not just protein, it's actually the nine essential amino acids that make up most proteins that we need those. And, if we do not get those and you only eat foods with part of them, you will have deficiencies and you'll have a host of issues. You could have brain fog, weight gain, honestly pretty significant neurotransmitter issues. It can lead to all kinds of types of mood behaviors. Because these amino acids directly are precursors for amino acids that actually are the neurotransmitters in our brain. So, it's pretty serious actually to–

Ben:  Which is probably one of the reasons why the nighttime Jell-O that I was talking about, for example, helps me sleep so well just because it's serving as a precursor for some of the neurotransmitters that would be responsible for assisting with sleep. When you are not getting all of the amino acid, you essentially can put yourself at a higher risk for neurotransmitter imbalances, which would affect everything from brain fog to sleep quality. So, it's not just about performance.

Angelo:  Exactly. Well, I guess it depends on how you define performance. But if you don't sleep well, it's going to mess up your performance pretty bad.

Ben:  Yeah. Now, what about creatine? Where does creatine fit in the picture? Would you classify that as an amino acid?

Angelo:  Yeah. So, creatine is a nonessential amino acid. This is an interesting one. Creatine because it's not essential, your body can synthesize it. And, it's actually, without going too deep into the science, it's synthesized by glycine and arginine. But each one of those are also synthesized by other amino acids. And ultimately, it comes from an essential amino acid, set of essential amino acids that turn into creatine in your body. Thus, you don't have to eat foods that have creatine in them.

That said, creatine has some really important benefits for performance. You wrote a great article sometime in the last couple months on this about all the amazing things that creatine can do not only for physical performance, which really relates to the core way in which it impacts energy production, but also for cognition and sleep, et cetera.

And, there are foods that are higher in the nonessential amino acid of creatine. So, for example, animal proteins. Steak is quite high in creatine. And, there are no plant proteins that have creatine. So again, this is one where if you're eating an only plant protein diet, you're definitely way lower in creatine than someone who's eating animal proteins. You don't have to eat it. You don't have to eat creatine because it's not essential, your body will generate it, but it's going to be in much lower levels in your body and there could be other impacts on your life from that. So, creatine is one where if you're eating a plant-based diet, even if you're eating really good plant-based diet with no other supplementation, you're choosing exactly the right proportions of different plants to get the amount of protein. You may want to consider supplementing with creatine.

Ben:  Right. With the general range being latest research that came out showed about 3 to 9.5 grams per day. And, they actually showed for seniors for staving off sarcopenia with creatine getting closer to actually that, which is higher than the 5 grams per day I recommend in the past. But for senior, excuse me, especially active seniors like close to that, like 9, 9.5 grams per day of creatine seems to be pretty beneficial.

Angelo:  Yeah. I think you're going to find that across the board with most research that shows with seniors just it's beneficial often to take higher doses of most of the amino acid simply in the way that older bodies need it and the way that they're able to metabolize it.

Ben:  Yeah. Now, in terms of how this fits into the protein scenario, we've established what amino acids are and the difference between the NEAAs versus the EAAs, versus the BCAAs When we're looking at how these feed into the protein scenario, you get to count the amino acids that you take in if you're using something like essential amino acids towards your overall protein intake for the day. So, let's say you determine based on your weight that you want to take 0.8 grams per pound. And, let's just, because I suck at math, so you weigh 100 pounds, I'll make this easy, so small person, 80 grams of protein per day. If you're taking 20 grams of essential amino acids per day, would that, therefore, dictate that you would need about 60 grams of protein from, let's say, food-based sources or protein powders or things like that?

Angelo:  I would say roughly. And, the reason why I say roughly is because amino acids on their own are not technically protein. That said, when you eat a protein source, if we just compare, it's like a whey protein isolate. Half of that whey protein isolate is going to be essential amino acids. And, the other half is going to be other amino acids. And thus, when you compare it directly to an essential amino acid powder or capsule that you take like, yes, so that's what it breaks down to, and that's what you end up eating. But it's not technically protein. And, the only reason I say that is because I personally would count it in the exact same way that you did. So, if I'm eating 60 grams of whole food protein and I compensate with an additional 20 grams of essential amino acids, I could say I'm hitting my 80 grams of protein.

The caveat to that though, the caveat to that is that when I take those essential amino acids, it is 100% essential amino acids. So, 20 grams of, and I'll just do a direct comparison with Kion Aminos and Kion Protein, 20 grams of Kion essential amino acids has the same amount of essential amino acids as 40 grams of whey protein isolate because the other half of the whey protein isolate is other nonessential amino acids. I wouldn't encourage anyone to just live off essential amino acids, and in that way, it can't really be classified as protein. But if you're end goal is that you're trying to support essential amino acid consumption, then you can look at it one of two ways. You could say like, “Hey, I'm eating 80 grams of protein to ultimately get 40 grams of essential amino acids out of it, but I'm getting these 40 grams of other good amino acids that are also good for my body.” You do want to eat these whole foods that support you. And, in that way, you could basically consider the essential amino acids either at 20 grams of protein or as the equivalent essential amino acids that would be in 40 grams of a really high-quality whole food protein.

Did I make sense?

Ben:  Okay.

Angelo:  I went around at a couple times, but just want to make sure I made it as clear as I could.

Ben:  I got it. And, for some of these numbers, I'll definitely add some of these numbers to the shownotes as well if people want to review or if you're not taking notes right now. I'll put all the numbers that Angelo is referring to on the shownotes.

So, once you step back and look at this, and I briefly alluded to protein ranges in terms of protein needs for people. As far as what you've looked into because I know you've been working a lot with our team of scientists and formulators at Kion and taking a deep dive into this as well, total protein intake for the day. How much protein then would you say the average person listening in actually needs?

Angelo:  I think the best answer is it depends. But it's probably more than you typically think. And, for this kind of audience that is focused oftentimes on active living, it's going to be more than the average person. And, I'm going to keep the numbers really simple like you did earlier. Let's just say the person weighs 100 pounds. The recommended daily allowance is 0.3 grams of protein for every pound. So, if I weigh 100 pounds, I should eat 30 grams of protein. But, that's for a sedentary adult who's not really moving.

Ben:  Yeah, it's super low.

Angelo:  That's super low. And basically, as you start to look at other categories of people, endurance athletes, strength athletes, people that are trying to lose weight, older adults that have additional digestion issues with protein, and actually thus metabolizing the protein in getting the amino acids out of it, the numbers typically are always higher. And, I actually think to keep things simple, the range you described is right on like 0.5 to 0.8 grams of protein per pound. So, if I weigh 100 pounds somewhere between 50 and 80 grams of protein. If I weigh 200 pounds and somewhere between 100 and 160. And, the numbers go up if you're that much more focused on strength, on really building strength, or on trying to lose weight. If you're trying to lose weight, you could go all the way up to even above a gram a pound.

Ben:  And then, there's the anecdotes too. And, I don't necessarily completely discount anecdotal evidence, but many professional bodybuilders and guys who are working out two to four hours a day or maybe college football players trying to put on 20 pounds of muscle or whatever. Some of them are pushing 2 grams per pound, which is a lot. But you'll see some anecdotes of people trying to put on tons of muscle actually getting close to double of what we're talking about.

Angelo:  And, I think that what I would say is the people that are doing that, they are eating that protein over mini-meals throughout the day. That would be the other condition on it. If you eat too much protein in one setting, it's going to lose its impact. Those bodybuilders, that's the story of these guys waking up in the middle of the night to eat 30 grams of lean chicken breast. It's because they're timing it to basically eat these doses of protein every three to four hours throughout the day. But there starts to just be a significant loss of return if you start doubling it and you're only eating three meals a day.

Ben:  Yeah.

Angelo:  It's not generating an additional muscle protein synthesis spike.

Ben:  Yeah. And then, kind of a nuance like based on your response about it depends, yeah, if you're active, you're definitely pushing towards that high range. But there's other cases too like if you're pregnant, if you're growing child.

Angelo:  Totally.

Ben:  If you're recovering from an illness or an injury like I was talking about how I amped up my amino acid in collagen intake for this knee surgery I'm recovering from. You talked about if you're in a calorie deficit or a weight cut how going above that RDA is beneficial or at least closer to the high end of that 0.55 to 0.8 grams per pound. And then, one thing that flies under the radar is if you have digestive issues, if you have hypochlorhydria, which is low stomach acid levels or depleted amounts of enzymes, like poor pancreatic enzyme function or gut dysbiosis. All of that can lead to decreased bioavailability or decreased digestion of protein. And, that would be another case in which you'd want to push more towards that high end, also includes some type of protein-digesting enzyme along with your protein smoothie, or your steak, or any other protein source that you're consuming aside from the one thing I don't think you need, digestive enzymes with. And, that would be just a straight-up amino acids.

Angelo:  Exactly. I was going to say or you take essential amino acids. Something though to get that additional support if your body has a hard time digesting the proteins themselves. And, personally, for myself kind of in this period of health transformation, I aimed for 0.75 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight and/or target body weight.

And, that made it really clear and I was just like, “Go for that.” It was a very easy daily goal to have. I didn't have to think that much about it.

Ben:  Yeah. And, we've established just pushing aside supplements and powders and amino acids for a moment, that compared to plant proteins, animal proteins are going to have a more complete amino acid profile like meat, and eggs, and fish, and even dairy. Those are all superior sources of protein due to that complete amino acid profile, due to the higher amount of protein per calorie, and also due to the fact they're just more nutrient-dense. You have more B vitamins, and more vitamin D, and more omega fatty acids, and more zinc, and more heme-based iron, and a lot of other things in meat that dictate that it's just better across the board or at least more convenient to get all your nutrients and your protein by including meat in your diet.

Is there any ranking of protein quality or amino acid quality when it comes to the actual meat sources themselves? Like, fish versus eggs, versus dairy, versus beef, versus chicken, et cetera?

Angelo:  So, there's a few out there. There's the protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score. There's also the digestible indispensable amino acid score. I like the latter, and I believe you like the latter as well because it actually distinguishes more between if something hits.

In the protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score, basically 1 is the top number that you can get. And so, if you hit a 1, that just is the highest, whereas with the digestible indispensable amino acid score, it gives more differences between actually how digestible it is. And, it's based on basically using an elial digestion determination versus the fecal digestion.

Ben:  Okay, so fecal digestion, if you're looking at kind of the old school way of ranking the quality of a protein source, the protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score, the PDCAA has been traditionally used as a ranking. And, if I'm not mistaken, I think that what caps out as the highest using that old school method is actually a whey protein isolate, if I'm not mistaken. The kind of newer way of ranking the quality of a protein that looks at what you refer to as like the small intestine digestion, that elial digestion versus the fecal digestion is, and sorry for the alphabet letters here for folks, the digestible indispensable amino acids or the DIAAS. That's kind of the new best way to rank the quality of a protein source.

Angelo:  Exactly. And so, like you said, so in the past, a whey protein isolate got a one with the PDCAAS, but so did whey protein concentrates, so did even a soy protein isolate. But when you compare those using this newer system, they rank lower. The soy protein isolate significantly lower, I think over 20% lower than the whey protein isolate. So, it's definitely significant which system you're using to rank.

Ben:  Okay. And, in the past and I think these are based on the old, the PDCAAS that has been ranked, but when it comes back to that initial question that I asked about some of the animal-based proteins and their quality, I think chicken wound up ranking towards the top. Although I recently interviewed–what's her name? Teri Cochrane–about things like amyloids and other issues with cleanliness of protein and also the nutrient density of the protein. Chicken seems to have a pretty high protein score when you look at the other factors of chicken. She even calls it “the dirty bird,” even though I think some pastured chickens would be okay. The chicken despite being higher is probably not the best source, but organ meats rank super high.

Angelo:  Organ meats ranked super high.

Ben:  Yeah, even slightly higher than beef, which is a close second. And then, I think, fish comes after that. Eggs are kind of sort of high up there, and then dairy would be still really, really good and better than most if not all plant-based sources but kind of towards the bottom of the animal-based sources. So, essentially, it's chicken but meh, with chicken, just based on some other issues with chicken. And then, organ meats, really good, beef really good, fish pretty good, eggs pretty good, dairy okay.

Angelo:  Exactly. And, I think the other main component there to consider this with the digestibility of the protein itself thus us being able to use that protein and turn into amino acids is, what else comes with it? So, with organ meats, there's all these other great nutrients that come with that digestible protein as well. Pretty significant when you compare that to chicken, for example.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And then, for plant-based protein sources, I mean since you grew up as a hippie vegan, you obviously have kind of been exposed to the best ones to combine. But as far as plant-based protein sources that you would consider to be pretty high like nowhere near what we've just talked about with the animal-based sources. I know that there's some that are higher for meeting your daily protein needs. Have you looked into the ranking of some of the plant-based protein sources?

Angelo:  I mean soy really across the board ranked super high. And, that's why it's been used so much by the functional food and supplement industry. Now, there's all kinds of other issues and concerns around it with phytoestrogens, but it is the one that consistently ranks pretty darn high.

Ben:  So, if we're talking about real food sources like Edamame, I'm not as big a fan of Edamame just because it's a nonfermented soy source which makes it a little less digestible but like tempeh, natto like a fermented tofu. Those type of soy protein sources would be really good to include in your diet. I know P-protein is pretty high. That also sometimes messes with some people in terms of digestive distress, but it does rank pretty high.

I think spirulina is up there. Like spirulina and algae-based sources.

Angelo:  Yeah, it is. Spirulina is really high. Yup.

Ben:  Yeah. Quinoa, amaranth, millet, all those super grains, those are good like better than rice for sure. And then, hemp is pretty decent too, isn't it?

Angelo:  Hemps? Yeah, hemp is pretty good. It's funny, I have these other just like concerns overall with plant proteins, particularly ones like hemp where you have to consume a really large amount of a isolate of a plant protein. And, these plants that are going on the ground and oftentimes there's lots of heavy metals in the ground, I'm just kind of skeptical of them. So, sorry to bring it up related to the protein digestibility of it, but it is a main concern for me. A hemp protein is, yeah, it's got a lot of the metals from the earth in it.

Ben:  Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that there are some plants. Lettuce would be another one. Hemp is one, but they serve as bioremediants. Actually, they're kind of like filters for the planet Earth. And, if they're grown in soil that happens to have much metal or they're grown near roads, things like that, you actually can wind up. And, I've seen some tests on people who are frequent users of hemp protein or even frequent users of marijuana. And, there are high levels of things like lead and arsenic and other metals when you look at a neutral analysis of people who are not super careful of their sourcing, some of these bioremediants. And, obviously, if you were to go Google “the dirty dozen,” you'd find some other plants that would be a good idea to be supe-duper cognizant of the actual sourcing and the soil in which they're grown. But yeah, hemp and lettuce, you actually have to be pretty careful with those when it comes to your metal exposure.

Angelo:  And, with those again, I think, the difference between eating a head of lettuce versus eating an isolate, like we're not eating lettuce isolate where they're extracting everything out of the lettuce and we're only eating that part of it. You're basically sucking. You're sucking out all the metals with that at the same time and consuming that. It's not to scare people away from eating peas, or rice, or lettuce, I don't think anyone's eating raw hemp, but when you're eating highly processed forms of it, I think that's really where the risk comes in more.

Ben:  That also comes down to somewhere you're talking about earlier to a certain extent or at least as reflective of that, that whole protein to calorie ratio. If you're trying to get as much protein as you can while not consuming a ton of calories along with them, you would be well-advised to choose the higher quality protein source because you just got to eat less of them to get the actual amount of amino acids you want.

Angelo:  Exactly.

Ben:  And so, we've got our animal and our protein or our animal and our vegetable-based protein sources that we've kind of ranked for people. And, I also all linked to the article that I wrote where I kind of layout the different rankings of each of these and which ones are better when it comes to real food sources. But then, we've also, of course, got some of the sources we talked about earlier. We explained essential amino acids, but I think a lot of people probably need to better wrap their heads around the protein powder sources because we have whey protein isolate, whey protein concentrate, whey protein hydroxylate, pea protein, soy protein, et cetera.

And, I want to ask you a few questions about these different protein powders and which protein powder would be best. But when it comes to all the different powders out there, can you kind of lay out where we're at right now with the landscape of available options for people and kind of unpack the actual powders and where you stand on those when it comes to good sources of protein?

Angelo:  Absolutely. So, there's a lot. So, I'm going to try to summarize it quickly. I mean, I think the most simple division is between animal-based and plant-based proteins. So, in plant-based proteins, you're going to have rice, pea, hemp, soy. And, for outside soy, oftentimes they're going to be combining different types of plant proteins in order to get that complete essential amino acid profile. So, oftentimes you'll see pea and rice protein powder combined.

And then on the other side, you have animal-based proteins. And, the most common one that lots of people have seen is whey. And, there's different forms of whey which we can go into. There's just whey concentrate, whey isolate, whey hydroxylate. Again, does make sound fancy and smart. We can say that word. But there's others, there's casein, which is another form of protein. It also comes out of dairy. And, across all these different options, the way that I think about it is number one, what's the essential amino acid profile? So, is it complete? Does it have all of them? And, most of the ones that are on the market today do. And, they do that by in a plant-based world by combining different types of plant sources.

Number two is going to be how much leucine does it have? We didn't get too deep into this earlier, but you did a great job in your amino acids article on this. And, we can go more into it now if we want to. But basically, having a higher leucine content in the amino acid profile of the protein is directly what's going to support muscle protein synthesis. And, for me, that's a big reason why I take protein powder. That's why I'm doing it in most cases.

Ben:  Yeah, it's not just muscle protein synthesis too, it regulates the production of anabolic endocrine hormones. Leucine does. You get a stimulation of insulin, which is going to enhance the uptake of the other amino acids and also suppress some of the muscle protein breakdown. Leucine, I know also modulates the mTOR pathway, that cell survival pathway that so many people who are trying to live to 106 trying to completely shut down. But I've said this before and I don't know how you feel about this, Angelo, I don't want to live an extra 20 years if I'm cold, and hungry, and libidoless, and kind of shrunken and basically weak and hard to kill my entire life.

Yeah, so leucine content, I think, is pretty darn important. And again, a lot of people, so why not just take BCAAs because I have ton of leucine? But the problem, as we've already established, is that there's a lot of side effects of using the amino acid sources that aren't complete that dictate that if you can find a complete protein source that also has higher amounts of leucine, it's going to kick the pants off of BCAA. So yeah, the leucine content, I agree. That's important to look at for the protein source as well.

Angelo:  And then after that, it does become, how can I get more protein with less calories? So, that's another major thing that I'm looking at. And, I think once we get to this point, so we're looking at complete essential amino acid profile, high amounts of leucine, we basically cut out all the plant proteins. So now, we're just looking at more protein in fewer calories.

Well, I guess the one other nuance I would put in there too is because there's a lot of bodybuilders that are super into casein, it's a more common protein you can take at night. It has a longer release basically related to how it's digestible, but the science is also shown that the amount of leucine and the way the BCAAs function in whey products outperforms casein if you take it more frequently. So, it's ultimately superior for muscle protein synthesis.

So then, I'm basically looking at different forms of whey, and I'm looking at a whey concentrate, a whey isolate and a whey hydroxylate. And, the simplest way of defining it is that whey concentrate is the simplest form. And, whey literally is if you have yogurt and you see that clear liquid on top, that's whey. And, casein is more of the white milk-colored protein that's inside of the dairy itself.

So, when you have a whey concentrate, it's a concentrated form of that whey that naturally exists in dairy products. When you get a whey isolate, you process the whey concentrate a little bit more to separate out the carbohydrates and the fat and also to remove some of the lactose. So, basically, the difference between a whey concentrate and a whey isolate is that you're going to get more protein for less calories by removing some of the fat and the carbohydrates, and you're going to remove the lactose which is, for many people, an irritant.

One other difference is concentrate for some people and depending on the formula can taste a little bit better. It's a little bit more of–well, it's got more fat and carbs in it, right?

Ben:  Yeah, probably because it does have more fats and more carbs.

Angelo:  Yeah.

Ben:  It's got a little bit more of a creamy taste. You can kind of hack that with flavor profiling on a whey isolate. But yeah, if you were to just take a plain concentrate and a plain isolate, the concentrate to most people is going to taste better, but it's also got the fat and carbs and then the lactose in it, which is why as a bodybuilder and I go all these like health and fitness conferences, you could usually tell step into an elevator based on all the protein farts who is consuming the isolate versus who is consuming the concentrate.

Angelo:  Measure it by the farts.

Ben:  That's right.

Angelo:  I think that's another one of the digestability scores we didn't talk about earlier.

Ben:  You got to go fart-free when you can.

Angelo:  And so, then a further refined form of whey protein is the whey protein hydroxylate. And, that basically removes everything but the protein. Whey protein concentrate is about 80% protein, whey protein isolate is about 90%, and the whey protein hydroxylate is 99%. And so, it takes out all the lactose, it takes out everything but the protein. It becomes way more expensive to make. We might call it distillation process is more expensive. And, in the end, it tastes pretty gross.

For most people, whey protein concentrate is going to be the cheapest. If you have zero lactose intolerance, you really don't worry about it and you don't care about calories, it might be a good option for you. If you're trying to get the best protein to calorie ratio and you still want it taste good, then whey protein isolate is the choice.

The one other point I want to add to all this is we're talking about all this without actually talking about the dairy sources themselves. I think it's really important to emphasize that choosing a dairy source that is grass-fed can dramatically change the profile of what that protein is and just the quality of it. Not to mention what kind of farming practices, et cetera, you want to be supporting.

Ben:  I want to unpack that a little bit because I've been asked. People like, “Well, does it even matter because you're just getting the isolate?” It doesn't matter the source that much. If it's grass-fed, does that really matter?

Angelo:  I think it matters. I mean, for me, there's two main components to this. So, number one on the environmental impact itself. That alone, choosing to support industry that treats animals in a certain way and also treats the production of meat in a certain way that I am going to get to eat the meat that's going to support the production of meat, ultimately that is grass-fed is worth it for me. On top of that, the concerns of the other types of chemicals, potential hormones, et cetera that are fed to animals that are not grass-fed, it goes right back to this concern that we had earlier about the plant proteins. So, I am condensing down everything that was put into this plant in the ground. And so, who was grown in a place with heavy metals? I'm condensing down and isolating down those heavy metals. And, I think the same concerns there rests with the whey protein isolate if you're not choosing a grass-fed source, you're isolating down the proteins that were created using hormones and other forms of chemicals.

Ben:  Yeah. So basically, what you're looking at is the potential for antibiotics added hormones, BPAs, heavy metals which has been a huge issue in the protein powder industry, anyways. And, you see this bone broth as well, the sourcing really matters. And, it appears that it comes down to the actual cattle from which these proteins were derived. With metals, is it more the cattle or is it more the soil, or do you know?

Angelo:  Well, the cattle are eating grass that comes out of the soil. That said, that compared to the types of heavy metals that would be coming out of the corn that would be fed in more a feedlot type environment, have a higher risk of having higher heavy metals.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, there was a study in 2018, I don't know if you saw this one, it was called the Clean Label Protein Powder study and they found over 50 of the big protein brands like most of the ones you'd see me walk into GNC or whatever. Pretty concerningly elevated levels of BPA and then metals from lead to arsenic, to mercury, to cadmium. And so, what was interesting was the certified organic and also the plant-based proteins that were tested? Those are the ones that had some of the highest amounts. What that means is that you should actually look for whether or not any protein powder has been pretty rigorously tested for toxins like heavy metals and other contaminants, and you're off to a good start if you're choosing an organic grass-fed source that is clean, but you do have to be pretty careful.

Angelo:  I 100% agree. And, I think this is one of the concerns and problems with certifications is organic and labels like grass-fed, which is actually not a certification, is just based off someone saying grass was fed to the animal. And then, our process of trying to track down the highest quality grass-fed whey protein isolate for making the Kion Clean Protein, it was actually pretty hard. There's a wide range where it's anywhere from 50%, to 60%, to 70%, to more than 95%. To surprise of many, there is not a grass-finished whey protein isolate. Anyone who says that there is is lying to you. And, that is because of the production that's required for raising the animals and managing through different seasons. It's not because they're trying to feed them a bunch of corn at the end, but they just can't 100% promise that. But finding a brand that is truly 95% plus, it's hard, and to find those suppliers and to manage it.

And so, if you see a grass-fed whey protein isolate that is half the cost of all the other ones, there's a reason why. I'll just tell you that. It's because they're slapping the label on there. Yes, some grass was fed to it, but it was not. It's not really long-term grass-fed.

Ben:  Yeah. And then, I think the other thing that I didn't necessarily want to skim over with whey that, I think, is important because we talked about the superiority of it when it comes to amino acids, and digestability, and also the absence of the carbohydrates, and the fat and the lactose that you'd find in the concentrate, the lower cost compared to hydrolysate, which I think is overpriced considering that it has an awful taste and also a lot of the good immune system boosting benefits are just kind of filtered right out of it.

The other thing that's important to bear in mind though, same as with the animal proteins we talked about, is the nutrient density. Because if you look at whey, not only do you have cysteine in it, which is a glutathione precursor, and that's one of the reasons whey protein is well-known as a way to enhance your glutathione levels, but you got lactoferrin, the same beneficial protein for gut health that you'd find in colostrum. You've got a lactoperoxidase, which got the antimicrobial benefits. Immunoglobulins, these immune building proteins that same things you'd find like colostrum and really good milk. There's growth factors in there like IGF-1 and IGF-2 and platelet-derived growth factor and fibroblast growth factor. There's bioactive peptides in whey. Again, like lactoferrin, which is similar to lactoferrin, but it's more of a peptide that, and a lot of people are injecting peptides now, but whey protein is actually a really good source for these recovery-based peptides. And, this even got prob–or not probiotics, but it's got prebiotics in it. Whey protein does. One is galactooligosaccharides.

And so, when you step back and look at kind of going beyond just the amino acid profile, I'm freaking convinced. And, especially over the journey that I've spent the past year working with you and the scientists at Kion and flavor profiling and everything that if you can nail a good tasting whey protein isolate from a good clean grass-fed source–the numbers don't lie. It is, I think, the most superior protein source on the face of the planet when you actually step back and look at it.

Angelo:  Absolutely for powder. I mean, I, of course, still eat steaks. I still eat chicken. I still eat all these other sources. But if I'm looking for a protein powder, it's just the obvious best choice.

Ben:  Yeah. I mean, if you put a ribeye steak in front of me or a nice creamy vanilla protein powder smoothie, I'm still going to choose the steak pretty much all the time. Unless I'm off to exercise and I want something that's more digestible. My rank profiling would be for a pre-workout amino acids bar none because for pre and during a workout, you don't even think about digestion. Some type of whey isolate would be kind of next best, especially if you need the calories. And then, the steak, the chicken, the eggs, well as you know, it's not that convenient as a pre-workout or something you can suck down during a workout. But you're right, if you have to choose real food, unless there's a requirement for you to be from a logistical standpoint consuming a powder, I'm always going to choose real food. But if I have to choose a protein powder, whey protein is going to be it.

What's interesting too with whey protein is, and I learned this when I was working on that article on whey protein is it's been around a long time.

Angelo:  I actually didn't even know any of that stuff until I saw your article on that. Catch me up on that again like the exact history of it.

Ben:  Okay. Yeah. So, archaeologists discovered these remains of pure whey in these ceramic vessels that date as far back as 7100 BC, which means that even though ancient man wasn't necessarily pumping iron and drinking vanilla and chocolate whey protein, at some point, humankind was separating whey like instead of discarding it like cheesemakers might do today, and they were using it for some kind of specific purpose, like Hippocrates, he's known as the father of modern medicine. There's documentation that he prescribed whey to his patients for immune issues, and gastrointestinal ailments, and skin conditions. And, later during the 1600s all the way up through the 1900s, they had these European whey houses where they actually served whey drinks and whey dishes. They were basically fancy whey spas. People would literally bathe in whey as a skin treatment. And, you can still find these fancy skincare products a lot of times made in Europe that are actually fashioned with whey.

So, whey has this history of being a health food that dictates that it's not this modern newfangled thing. Humankind is known about whey, anybody who sings “Little Miss Muffet” also knows this, “The curds and the whey and Little Miss Muffet,” but it has a really, really interesting background, just a little history of whey protein. We've been tapping into it for quite some time. Maybe we haven't had it in big protein tubs. But yeah, it's been around awhile and actually recognized for quite some time as a pretty significant health food that although people in modern times, I think, sometimes associated with bodybuilders, and weight trainers, and people who are just in the physical culture environment. It's got a pretty big history in just health overall.

Angelo:  I think the inside baseball on “The Muppets” piece was my favorite thing of everything you just said. But you're right, it's been around forever. And, I think one of the biggest issues that I feel is really unfortunate for this for whey specifically is the way that the fitness, and the natural food, and the supplement industry works is there's always got to be something new. And, whatever is new is got to be kind of talking bad about what was before. And, because whey has been around awhile, it's gone through all these iterations of having the new product come back and kind of talk smack about it. Whether that's pea and rice protein or it's soy or whatever, everyone's trying to critique it and somehow make a case about how it's bad. But man, it's withstood the test of time.

If you just look at the science over the last 40 years, it is the superior protein powder. And, it's clear. That said, everyone's going to pull up their research or this study or that study that argues against it. But if you look at the full body of research, it's pretty clear it's the superior choice.

Ben:  Okay. So, we've established a new protein powder, whey protein isolate is pretty much top of the totem pole. We've established that you should ideally ensure that its source from grass-fed cows that are grazing on clean pastures and clean soil. So, you're getting non-GMOs, you're getting antibiotic-free, you're getting growth hormone-free and you're getting low in metals. We've established that the protein source is, in terms of protein per calories, really high and we've established that if you can find a protein, you should ensure that it's been tested for a lot of these toxins that we talked about, like BPA and the heavy metals, the lead, the arsenic, or the mercury, and cadmium, et cetera if you have digestive ability issues. But if you have lactose tolerance issues, then that's another reason to choose it.

But how about the actual? Because I know you've been deep in this in formulating the Kion protein. How about the flavor profiling because a lot of protein just tastes nasty? How do you get this? Because I've just been geeking out on especially the vanilla flavor, that's probably my favorite of the new Kion protein, but even the unflavored, it tastes this rich creamy velvety breast milk. Because I've been consuming whey protein powders to my bodybuilding days like 20 years ago and I haven't really experienced the protein yet like this. And obviously, I'm not down there at the offices in Boulder kind of hands in with the flavor profiling, but how was the actual flavor of this stuff nailed, like the flavor and the consistency and the texture? Give me some more inside baseball on that.

Angelo:  It really did start with the unflavored protein. I mean, I can't even count how many raw ingredient suppliers of grass-fed protein we tested. And, it involved really deep analysis of all the quality specs too. So, we have to just confirm that it's even going to meet our super high standards. But then once we get them in, it got down to–I mean I tested tens of them. But by the end, there were three or four that could actually meet our specific standards. If I'm honest, we just bought the nicest one you can possibly get. It's from the highest quality cows and in the highest quality location and it just had that sweet taste.

The other ones, honestly, they're great, and you could cover it up with flavor profile. But the unflavored, they had this slight kind of, if I'm honest with you, almost like an utter taste. Sometimes when you eat pork or something, it's got that kind of animal taste. This was just the cleanest, purest, most delicious raw ingredient. And, it really just has come down from being willing to pay for the premium, highest quality farms, highest quality filtration processes to get that kind of raw ingredient.

Ben:  What do you mean the highest quality filtration?

Angelo:  What it really breaks down to is when people are collecting the milk, and then transporting the milk, and then filtering the milk, all of those processes can be done to different levels of quality specs. And, this is really across the board with any supplement that you're taking. And, every single stage, people can be more or less diligent. When you are willing to pay for a premium raw ingredient, literally every single stage of the process is managed neurotically where the quality is just maintained at every single stage. And so, it's kind of hard to name a specific place where issues can arise, but it can come anywhere actually from the milking to the transportation, to the filtration centers themselves.

Ben:  Okay, got it. And then, what do you add in for people who haven't seen the label on the new whey protein isolate that we're doing at Kion? What else is in there as far as the actual flavoring because people have asked me sucralose, acesulfame potassium. You'll see that a lot of times, some of these known artificial sweeteners that are considered to be in some cases like neurotoxins or harmful for the microbiome, which I'm always looking for. And, I'm looking at the label of a protein powder. But in terms of nailing the flavor profiling in addition to just the filtration and the sourcing, is there anything else that's getting put in there that you would say is amping up the flavor profile?

Angelo:  Again, I mean, not to sound too redundant on this, it really comes down to the quality of the raw gradients that we use. And so, with this flavor, we used organic natural flavors. Again, what you're getting from that is you're just getting the highest quality distillation of specific organic flavors, and stevia, and that's it. There's just nothing else in there.

I know other people have compared our protein and I, myself, to just other brands. You can just taste a bunch of kind of other stuff in there and really just keeping it simple and keeping at the highest quality raw ingredients. That's how you get that flavor. I'm the guy too like when I go out to eat at a nice restaurant, actually when you're in town, we always go to that same steakhouse in Boulder.

Ben:  Yeah, what's the name of that one?

Angelo:  Is it 316?

Ben:  Yeah, the one where they can bring in the bone marrow and give you a shot of bourbon that did, it was a bone marrow shoot.

Angelo:  Yeah.

Ben:  It's amazing. Like, you do this shot of alcohol down the bone marrow, you get some umami flavor of the bone marrow. If anybody has ordered bone marrow at a restaurant, see if they do a bone marrow shoot like a shot of alcohol down the bone marrow because it's pretty interesting. It's kind of a distraction from the whey protein discussion but drinking alcohol with bone marrow is a real treat.

Angelo:  Anyway, the steakhouse. Why is the steakhouse so good? Because they get the nicest meat and they cook it in the nicest butter. And, you start with the most high-quality ingredients. You don't add a bunch of other junk to cover up flavors, you keep it really simple and you include the best raw ingredients. And so, I mean, at the most fundamental level, that's what it takes, but it also takes iterations, and iterations, and iterations of flavors. So, getting just the right amount of the organic natural vanilla flavor, getting just the right amount of the sweetener.

And, the thing, I think, that makes this protein powder pop though is the Himalayan salt. By adding this a little bit of–

Ben:  That's right, I forgot about that.

Angelo:  It just cuts the sweetness. If you have a really delicious cookie, or brownie, or something that's sweet, you don't notice it, but that salt adds this whole extra body and character to it. And, once we got just the right amount of that Himalayan salt in there, it was like, “I've never had anything like it.”

Ben:  You're making me hungry already, man.

Okay. So, in terms of the whey protein isolate, anything else that you want to cover as far as what went into the actual design of this stuff?

Angelo:  I don't think so, man. I mean, again, it's really when you're trying to be the kind of company that we are, you just spend a ton of time on the front end investigating the highest quality sources, working with the best partners, not adding any junk and just being diligent really, just being kind of neurotic about it. And, I think and any other company could make this product for half the cost, but I wouldn't want to take it. I know you wouldn't take it, our team wouldn't take it. And, I would want to give it to my family. So, it's about being neurotic through every single stage of the supply chain and the formulation process.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I will link to in the shownotes, but the article that came out on Kion's website a couple of weeks ago about–because a lot of people think you just mix it in with the smoothie, which is actually really good. One of my favorite recipes right now is I use the vanilla Kion clean protein, and then I put the colostrum, Kion colostrum in there, the creatine, and then I'll just do bone broth ice. Sometimes I'll add a little bit of extra sea salt and stevia and just top that with some cacao nibs or some coconut flakes or some bee pollen. And, that's amazing, but I'll link to this article in the shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast.

Protein pancakes. There's a recipe for these protein keto bites which are amazing protein hot chocolate. Overnight oats like adding more protein to overnight oats, that was another really good one. Protein chia pudding. Banana nut protein muffins. Protein granola. Adding protein to your cereal milk, which is like my sons did that a couple of times, like the Magic Spoon cereal with the protein powder added to the actual milk, so you can get even more protein.

Angelo:  Oh, man.

Ben:  And then salad dressing. You can take the unflavored protein and then add a little bit of white vinegar or lemon, like a lemon juice, some olive oil, some salt and pepper, and it's literally like this protein-infused creamy dressing. A lot of people don't realize there's all these uses. And, we've already salvaged, you can take a bath in it too like they used to do in the Roman whey spas.

Angelo:  And, how much do you put in the bathtub when you do that, Ben?

Ben:  There's so many fun ways to use protein, man. I'm honestly going to post to Instagram once I nail the actual recipe of how to add this into the colostrum cream cake. But I think I've only scratched the surface of all the ways I can use these wonderful bags of protein powder that are now at my house. So, we got unflavored. Again, it's really good, you guys. If you haven't tried the unflavored, even that will knock your socks off. But then smooth vanilla, that's probably my favorite and then rich chocolate. All three are really good.

Which one is your favorite, Angelo?

Angelo:  I alternate between doing rich chocolate and then just throwing some frozen organic berries in the blender with the vanilla. I love those two. I was originally drinking it, just shaking it up with water, but I throw ice cubes in, some water, and make it into. It's amazing. Ice cubes, a little bit of water, and the chocolate powder and it literally tastes like a chocolate milkshake. And then, the other one is kind of a strawberry.

Ben:  Well, you're just doing ice cubes with the chocolate and protein powder?

Angelo:  Yeah, ice cubes, water, and the chocolate protein powder. It's plenty rich. Dude, it's less than 100 calories for 20 grams of protein.

Ben:  I want to try that, yeah.

Angelo:  It's incredible.

Ben:  I got to try that.

Angelo:  Yeah, I had berries. It's a little bit more, but it's–man, it's the berries with the vanilla too is just killer.

Ben:  Alright. Well, I think we're getting a little bit blue in the face talking protein, but I'm pretty sure if anybody is listening to this whole episode, you pretty much know everything that you need to know about protein and amino acids as far as amping up your life with them. However, if you want take an even deeper dive, if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast, I will link to the different uses of protein powder, recipes I was just talking about, the pumpkin spice colostrum cream cake recipe, my nighttime Jell-O recipe with the amino acids and the collagen, but then I'll also link to two–actually three really good articles. One on creatine, which Angelo mentioned, but then I've got a big article I wrote about this new whey protein isolate and whey protein in general, and then also EAAs versus BCAAs, and how to kind of hack your protein and aminos intake primarily for muscle gain and fat loss but a whole lot more. So, I'll link to all that if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast.

And, I'm serious, Angelo, this discussion made me hungry. I only had breakfast two hours ago and I'm ready to go have some protein again.

Angelo:  I'm going to go ahead and shake right now, man.

Ben:  Alright, let's do it.

Alright, folks. I also linked to the other podcast with Angelo. We had that really entertaining podcasts. If you want to find out more about his back history and where he comes from, I think you'd really enjoy that episode.

And, Angelo, it's always a pleasure, man.

Angelo:  It's a pleasure, dude. Hopefully, I'll see you soon in a few weeks.

Ben:  Hopefully. Alright, folks. I'm Ben Greenfield, along with the great Angelo Keely, CEO of Kion signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Check out BenGreenfieldFitness.com/proteinpodcast for the shownotes. Thanks for listening in and have an amazing week.

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In some cases, I might also be an investor in a company I mentioned. I'm the founder, for example, of Kion LLC, the makers of Kion branded supplements and products which I talked about quite a bit. Regardless of the relationship, if I post or talk about an affiliate link to a product, it is indeed something I personally use, support, and with full authenticity and transparency recommend in good conscience. I personally vet each and every product that I talk about. My first priority is providing valuable information and resources to you that help you positively optimize your mind, body, and spirit, and I'll only ever link to products or resources, affiliate or otherwise that fit within this purpose. So, there's your fancy legal disclaimer. 



It's protein time, baby.

Get strapped in to have all your burning questions about protein answered…


-How much protein you really need…

-The difference between all of the different kinds of protein powders out there…

-Whey concentrate vs. hydrolysate vs. isolate…

-How to choose the right protein for your needs…

-Animal vs. plant protein…

-The fascinating history of whey protein…

-And much more!

In this podcast episode, I interview Angelo Keely, a previous podcast guest who appeared in the episode “What Yoga Trapezes, Laser Lights, Kettlebells, Mini-Meditation & Ketogenic Doughnuts Have To Do With Building A Nutrition Supplements Empire.”

Angelo Keely is the co-founder and CEO of Kion, an active lifestyle, supplement, and functional food company dedicated to helping people fully experience a joyful, active life by providing pure, energy-enhancing solutions. Angelo has a truly diverse and unique background having put himself through college as a professional musician—beatboxing, rapping, and drumming.

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-Ben's desire to make the Pumpkin Spice Colostrum Cake…05:45

-How Angelo Keely has become a world-renowned expert on protein…09:50

  • Was raised as an all-natural, “crunchy” kid in the 80s
  • Pescatarian and plant-based diet
  • Learned the importance of mixing protein sources from a very young age
  • Mom was obsessed with amino acids (AAs)
  • Traumatic incident at age of 16; began whey protein as a means of recovery
  • Underwent a health transformation in 2020

-How Angelo Keely and his health transformation caused a hyper-focus on protein and amino acids…15:30

  • Watched calorie intake; upped daily protein intake; strength training
  • Higher protein intake, good sources, allows satiety with lower calorie intake
  • Protein Leverage Hypothesis

-Overview of the different types of amino acids…31:30

-Creatine as an amino acid…39:48

-The appropriate amount of protein and aminos to intake…42:45

  • AAs by themselves are not protein, but proteins are partly AAs
  • 20g of AAs has same amount of EAAs as 40g of whey protein isolate
  • Hard to determine an exact amount of AAs and protein intake per day
  • RDA is .3g of protein for every lb. for a sedentary person
  • People with active lifestyles, athletes require far more AAs (.5-.8 g per lb.)
  • Numbers go way up if you're strength training or trying to lose weight
  • Too much protein in one sitting loses the efficacy

-The ranking of the quality of animal-based protein sources…50:45

-The good and bad when it comes to protein powders…59:00

-Concerns and problems with the safety certifications…1:07:30

  • Organic, “grass-fed” can be misleading
  • There is no such thing as a 100% grass-fed whey protein

-The long history of whey protein…1:12:25

  • Archaeologists discovered pure whey from as far back as 7,000 years ago
  • Hippocrates prescribed whey for immune issues, skin conditions, etc.
  • European whey houses 400-500 years ago
  • Tendency to bash what has been around for a long time
  • Science proves whey to be the superior protein powder

-How to get a protein powder that doesn't taste like ash…1:16:10

-And much more with Angelo Keely!

Upcoming Events:

Resources from this episode:

Angelo Keely:

– Podcasts And Articles:

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Ask Ben a Podcast Question

2 thoughts on “[Transcript] – Everything You Need To Know About Protein Powders, Amino Acids, Animal Vs. Plant Protein, How Much Protein You Need & Much, Much More With Kion’s Angelo Keely.

  1. Fiona A says:

    What are your thoughts on Whey Protein from grass fed sheep or goats? Any benefits / disadvantages?

  2. T. Ferguson says:

    All of this information about protein powders and heatlh foods in general is really useful for incorporating healthier foods into your diet. I’ve been trying to eat more seafood to have a better source of protein Wild seafood is probably the best kind of seafood to enjoy.

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