[Transcript] – Sound Medicine: How To Use The Ancient Science Of Sound To Heal The Body And Mind.

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/biohacking-podcasts/sound-healing/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:17] Podcast Sponsors

[00:03:39] Podcast and Guest Introduction

[00:06:43] Kulreet's Path to Expertise in Ayurveda and Sound Healing

[00:13:50] How the Skin Can “Hear” Sound Waves Similar to How Bones Can

[00:18:48] Targeting Cells or Organs with Specific Hertz Frequencies

[00:26:10] Podcast Sponsors

[00:28:39] The Biofield Explained

[00:37:04] Frequencies Produced by Medications

[00:42:49] Biological Mechanisms Behind the 7 Chakras

[00:48:09] Kulreet's Chakra Mantras

[00:53:54] How to Find Physicians Who Practice Sound Healing

[00:57:29] Closing the Podcast

[00:59:43] End of Podcast

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

Kulreet:  If our computers have the capacity to make those wireless connections, why on Earth would our body, which is far more complex than our computers, not have that capacity? Literally built to respond to sound, but we're not doing it deliberately, we're not doing it in a conscious way to use healing sounds as part of our medical arsenal. Why would you have surgery if you could shrink a tumor using sound? Like, why would we be that invasive if we don't have to be?

Ben:  Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

My guest today is Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary. Yeah. Say that 10 times fast. Sound medicine specialist. Sound medicine, is that a woo? Well, normally, you'd think so, but this is like a seriously smart MD talking to me about this stuff. And it's pretty impressive when you actually look at sound medicine and the actual effects of sound medicine. So, I really wanted to get around to talk about this, so I did.

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Well, folks, you've probably heard me talk about sound healing before, and your woo-woo radar likely went off if you're anything like me when you hear things like tuning forks, and sound tables, and crazy things like that get mentioned as potential healing modalities. Rightly so, I think an eyebrow or two can get raised, but there is an entire field of sound healing called sound medicine. That is a field that actually uses a lot of these ancient sciences when it comes to sound healing and weaves them into modern medicine. And a leading neurologist and a neuroscientist, and also a practitioner of Ayurvedic medicine recently wrote a book that I read, and it's called “Sound Medicine: How to Use the Ancient Science of Sound to Heal the Body and Mind.” Now, I addressed sound healing quite a bit in my book “Boundless,” but didn't even scratch the surface of what this book gets into in terms of how different types of sound impacts your body and your brain, and the physiological effects of sound vibration for, not just altering mood, but even healing disease. So, I decided that I wanted to get the author of this book “Sound Medicine” on the show to explain this all to us simply because she is highly, highly qualified and has expertise in both modern neurology and the ancient science of health in Ayurveda.

So, her name that I am really hoping I don't butcher is Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary. Did I get that alright, Dr. Chaudhary?

Kulreet:  You got really, really close. It's Kulreet Chaudhary.

Ben:  Kulreet Chaudhary. Okay. Kulreet Chaudhary, there we go. I'm just going to call you Kulreet, if that's cool?

Kulreet:  That's fine, that's fine.

Ben:  Okay. Alright. So, she actually works with chronic neurological disorders, MS, Parkinson's, migraine headaches, and uses diet, uses behavior, uses stress, uses a lot of standard allopathic approaches, but is also open to this idea of Ayurveda and this idea of sound medicine, which is why she is considered to be kind of a pioneer in the field of integrative medicine and was the director of Wellspring Health in Scripps Memorial Hospital for 10 years. You've probably seen her around The Dr. Oz Show. And this is stuff that she knows inside and out. So, we're pretty privileged to have Kulreet on the show.

Kulreet, welcome to the podcast.

Kulreet:  Thank you so much, Ben. And thank you so much for including an introduction that has the word “woo-woo” in it that actually ends in a very flattering way. So, good job.

Ben:  Be careful. Sometimes you never know where these podcasts go. You could be a tin foil hat wearing freak by the time we finish. Also, for everybody listening, I'm going to put the shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/soundmedicine. And I'll include a link to Kulreet's book there also at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/soundmedicine.

So, what I thought was interesting, just jump around, Kulreet–I mean, you're a neurologist, you're allopathically trained, and I'm just curious how you actually came into contact with sound medicine in the first place because I know it's not part of formal medical training. So, what was your path to becoming familiar with this form of healing particularly?

Kulreet:  Well, I was lucky because I was introduced to it somewhat unconsciously before my medical training. When I was nine years old, I was actually trained in mantra meditation, transcendental meditation, which probably a lot of people know, and it's a form of sound medicine. And I only was introduced to it because my mom had developed a thyroid condition, and she went to her just regular allopathic endocrinologist, and he identified that it was a stress induced condition. So, he recommended mantra meditation, the form of transcendental meditation. And six months later, her thyroid had completely normalized. No medical intervention. And so, my sister and I also learned when we were very young.

So, this has been a part of my life since a very young age, but it wasn't until after I became a neurologist and I started seeing the impact of stress on my patient's lives and the impact on stress in conditions like multiple sclerosis, conditions like migraine headaches, epilepsy, and Parkinson's. Then I said, “Why am I not offering this to my patients?” And so, that was the first time that I took my own personal experience, as well as so much of the medical literature that had been done at that time on mantra meditation and introduced it. And many people don't realize that meditation in using a mantra, that is a form of sound therapy. When you're using a sound–

Ben:  Well, yeah. That's what I was going to ask you because you're–are you actually making a sound in mantra meditation? Because I've taken TM and you have a, what's it called, your–

Kulreet:  Your personal mantra, your bija mantra.

Ben:  Yeah. Your word. But in many cases, you're not voicing it aloud. So, you're not creating sound vibrations. So, how would you classify something like TM as sound medicine?

Kulreet:  So, that's such a great question because we tend to think about sound as something audible, but when you look at the way that sound medicine is actually used already in allopathic medicine, it's all inaudible sound. So, like an ultrasound, which is, I'm sure everybody is familiar with it. We use it for diagnosis. We use it for different therapies and connective tissue injuries. Lithotripsy, which is a form of sound medicine, used in modern medicine to break up kidney stones, gallstones. And even a form of cosmetic therapy called ultherapy, it's an FDA approved form of reversing aging, those are all forms of inaudible sound.

So, you have to keep in mind that we call sound audible only because human ear is able to capture a certain range of frequencies and we're able to hear that. And so, we call that sound. But sound is actually vibrations that are occurring in the environment. And when you are thinking, everybody talks about that inner conversation, the inner dialogue, and that's one of the huge keys, right, to overcoming your limitations is overcoming the negative ruminative thoughts that are playing in your head. That is sound. And so, when you are making sound internally, that still has a vibratory impact on your body.

Ben:  Yeah. And I want to get into the impact on the actual cells themselves, but you brought up a few good examples in the realm of ultrasound and lithotripsy. And for me, probably one of the first places that I came into contact with sound, I guess medicine, you would call it. Beyond something like ultrasound was actually this, what's it called, extracorporeal shockwave therapy used for men with erectile dysfunction or Peyronie's that began to get marketed to men who might not have those conditions, but who wanted to perhaps increase sexual performance. And I actually tried it out for that and was impressed with it. My wife went in and did it for herself also. And that actually does make a little bit of a jackhammer-esque sound as you're getting worked on, but I believe the actual waves themselves are inaudible. And I did a whole podcast on this. I came across this device called the Apollo Neuroscience, or the Apollo Neuro. I don't know if you heard of this, but it's a wearable that produces an inaudible sound sensation that travels at the long bone of your femur or your humerus, depending on what you have on your ankle or your wrist respectively, and elicits specific brainwave signals like alpha or beta to help you meditate or relax and unwind, or stay clear and focused. And again, you can't hear it, but it is an actual soundwave.

Kulreet:  Yeah. And so, these are actually modern technologies that have ancient origins. And so, in the ancient realms, they actually used many similar things. They used things like tuning fork, they used things like singing bowls, but they also used things like mantras that also had the resonant frequency that would induce a certain vibration or certain frequency within your body and within your mind. To me, it's really funny because when people go, “Sound medicine, that sounds impossible,” I'm like, “Well, we've actually been doing it for a long time.” We're already doing it in medicine, it's just we're not doing it in the form of really the extremely potent ways of transforming the human mind into unleashing your absolute true potential, but also in fighting neurological and psychological conditions because the brain, in particular, is really, really receptive to sound.

So, we're using it, we're just using it at a bare minimum. And part of that is because we don't yet have a scientific paradigm, a scientific model. Now, those are starting to be created, but we don't have a scientific model to hold those technologies. And technology follows science. I mean, just think for a moment that if Benjamin Franklin didn't discover electricity, Thomas Edison couldn't have made the lightbulb. Science has to come first before technology follows. So, we're in this gap right now. We've got a few sound therapies, but the science is only now emerging. And then, once that emerges, we're going to have all of these new sound therapies, and they're so much more powerful, and they're so much more safe to use.

Ben:  Yeah. I was talking about that wearable that causes the sound to be conducted through the bone. And you mentioned in the book about how sound actually is transported through the bones. You said the bones are so conductive that physicians can use tuning forks to determine whether someone has a bone fracture, meaning like if you strike and there's a clear tone, you could have an uninjured bone where if the sound is diminished or absent, it could indicate there's an interruption in the soundwaves in the presence of a fracture. That's how sound, for example, could be sensed by bones.

And of course we know the ear has all the tiny bones in it. That's another perfect example, I suppose. But then you also talk about how we're able to hear these pressure waves from sound through our skin. How would you actually explain how the skin can hear, so to speak?

Kulreet:  So, we are actually set up with receptors in our skin to pick up vibrations. And again, just think about it, like if you are in proximity to a very, very loud sound, yes, you can hear it in your ears, but you can actually feel the pressure waves against your skin, like you can feel it vibrating inside of your body. And what people are oftentimes surprised by is that we're actually built to interact with sound. Even on a cellular level, we have these little structures called primary cilia and they are on every cell of our body, and they quiver like tuning forks. And when they pick up sound, again in the form of vibration, what we call sound is just a certain range of frequency the human ear can pick up. But that's like saying what a dog picks up is not sound.

So, just keep that in mind that we have a really strong human bias of what we can hear that we call sound, but what other animals can hear we don't call sound. So, there's a wide range of vibrations and we're actually built to pick those up. So, these primary cilia, when they get that vibratory information, they cause proteins to change their charge, and it actually changes the shape of their cells. And we know that if there's a problem with this primary cilia, it can actually result in conditions like arthritis, heart failure, cancer. And so, sound is a part of our biology, and I just tell people to think about it. Ben, if you walk into a room and your wife was just furious and the first thing out of her mouth was just–

Ben:  That never happens, by the way.

Kulreet:  Yeah. No, that never, ever, ever happened. This is completely hypothetical. But if she said like something really, really–we'll use somebody else. We'll use your accountant. I don't want you to get in trouble with your wife. But you walk in and somebody says something really angry, immediately, there is a wave of a physiological, a biological response to your whole body. So, we are literally built to respond to sound, but we're not doing it deliberately, we're not doing it in a conscious way to use healing sounds as part of our medical arsenal. And I think that this is going to be one of the big shifts in medicine over the next … anywhere between 20 to 50 years is the introduction of vibratory medicine because it's a safer form of medicine and it's a more effective form of medicine. Like, why would you have surgery if you could shrink a tumor using sound? Like, why would we be that invasive if we don't have to be?

Ben:  Yeah. It's fascinating. And the description of the celia is, I think, a really, really good way to explain this to people, just these tiny hair-like or antenna-like structures on every single cell membrane that can pick up vibration. Anybody who took, whatever, I don't remember what grade it was in, like sixth-grade anatomy, but you've seen all of the tiny bones in the ear, for example, and how those can register vibrations. I mean, from infrasonic all the way to ultrasonic frequencies, your ear can pick those up and it's not that much of a stretch to begin to understand that your cells actually are just … I suppose you could say they're chock-full of tiny ears, or your skin is a giant ear.

Kulreet:  Yes. That's exactly right. We're built to interact with our environment. We're built to get as much information from our environment as possible. And part of the research is when people go, “Well, is there a proof of this?” I said, “Well, you don't start researching things again until you start having new scientific ideas developed.” And so, when people started to look at some of these ancient practices and go, “Wait a minute, sound and vibratory medicine, it's doing something,” then they started to look for, “Well, what was the mechanism?” And so, it's only after we developed a new science that we start looking for the biology to explain the model for how it works.

Ben:  Right. And the thing about the skin is not only the giant ear, but you see all these photoreceptors now that are being discovered dictating that the skin is also an eye. So, it's very able to sense light and dark cues to regulate circadian rhythm. And now, it turns out it's able to detect sound cues that could also have a pretty important impact on health. So, one thing though about this whole vibration potential of the cell membrane in response to sound is the idea that sounds obviously vibrate at different frequencies. Therefore, an argument that you make in the book is that if cells vibrate in response to different frequencies, we should be able to use frequencies for eliciting specific functions.

And I'm just curious how that actually works, how we could target a cell or an organ with a specific hertz frequency, and then elicit some kind of a response. Can you explain how that works, and perhaps give some examples, whether from research or elsewhere?

Kulreet:  Yeah. So, there's this actually research that's being done now and the researchers are applying for a patent. I don't know if they've already received it, but this is a researcher, the head researchers from UCLA, and he has a team that he's working with actually from around the world. And what they have found out was that if you apply–this is all on a microscopic level, but like a microscopic amplifier, cells have a song. So, cells are actually singing. They produce a specific vibration that can be translated into audible sound for the human ear. Again, it's not that the world isn't vibrating and singing essentially, it's just that we can only hear certain frequencies. And so, what they found was that you can translate these cellular vibrations into sound, and that different cells associated with different tissues carried different primary or resonant frequencies. That means their internal frequency.

Ben:  So, when you say resonant, what does resonant mean in this case?

Kulreet:  It means like your primary resonant frequency. So, it's the sound of a liver cell, like that is its unique vocal fingerprint.

Ben:  Okay.

Kulreet:  So, it's very, very unique to that particular tissue. So, what they theorize then is, okay, so if healthy liver cells are producing a particular frequency, just like if you have two tuning forks that should be the same frequency, if you tap one, the second one begins to resonate. And so, the theory is, could you do this with unhealthy tissue that if you expose it to its own primary resonant frequency, can you return it to its healthy state? What they're finding is very, very positive, and that's why they are applying for a patent for this technology. But this is completely the same philosophy, the same science behind the ancient practices, which was that they figured out what were the frequencies of different aspects of the body, as well as the frequencies, different frequencies of the mind.

And so, if somebody had a physical problem, or they have a mental problem, they would include sound therapy as part of their treatment plan. It's just like how I practice. It's not that I'm only giving people sound therapy, but I'm giving them dietary recommendations, I'm giving them herbal recommendations, I'm recommending the use of things like yoga and different kind of exercise, but in addition, we include sound. And so, this was the way that people were treated in ancient times and it was extremely, extremely effective. And one of the things that really shocked me because I'm in India right now doing research into some of these records that are 8,000 years old and have never been looked at by a medical physician, I think I'm actually one of the first medical physicians–

Ben:  You're in India right now while we're talking?

Kulreet:  I'm supposed to be in India, but then the world shut down so I can't get back. I'm in San Diego. No complaints about being in San Diego, but I was working in India, studying these records. And the way that they describe the conditions that they were treating, treating cancer, treating things that we think are just–treating paralysis, and using this combination, and they were successfully treating these things, and they knew the different resonant frequencies for these different systems. I mean, it's absolutely spectacular the amount of detail they had. And they also had specific resonant frequencies for unlocking intuition, for making you more attractive to financial well-being. They had different frequencies in training the brain to be receptive to those frequencies that then out in the world.

Ben:  Super interesting. This kind of explains this whole idea that each cell has a song. I don't remember the author of a book that I read about tuning forks, but she actually had tuning forks that were targeted towards specific organs based on the initial sound that those tuning forks were producing. And what you're saying is that these cells at the cilia on the cell surface or the cell membrane is actually responding to a specific frequency. And then, based on that frequency, you can elicit a metabolic response within the cell.

Kulreet:  Yes. And the cilia is only the first structure that we're really uncovering. We're going to uncover a lot more. And, Ben, the next wave of this, no pun intended, but the next wave of this research is going to be really looking at, I believe, how sound actually results in electromagnetic waves in the body, and that they then are also causing biochemical changes. And people might go like, “Electromagnetic waves? There's no way we produce electromagnetic waves.” Yeah, we do. That's why we're able to do an EEG. That's why we're able to do an EKG. And where the research is going is it's showing that our biology, it's not this bumper car model that we had before of locking key of this chemical coms and binds to some receptor that there's actually electromagnetic waves that are generated, and that's why you can have a response in every single cell all at once to stressful response or a really pleasant response. But this is why the body is so fine-tuned where you can take a trillion cells and have them respond in unison because we're actually communicating at this ridiculously high speed of propagating electromagnetic waves. And this is being already proven.

And so, as we start to put these pieces together and we start to realize like, “Wait a minute, how does sound result in electromagnetic waves that then result in biological responses?” Now, we're looking at the new science. We're not looking at, “Oh, you've got a liver tumor. Let's go in there rip your body open, scoop that thing out, hopefully we got it all, and then put you on months and months and months of chemotherapy. I mean, this is like caveman medicine in comparison to even what we were doing thousands of years ago. I mean, thousands of years ago, they were treating these things non-surgically, and they have extremely detailed records of how they did it. And that's why I am in rural India studying this, and this is why I'm writing these books because I have access to this information that is so ancient and that is so difficult really to tap into. And I'm trying to bring this out to the world just so at least in the future, maybe it's not going to be during my lifetime, but at least in the future, we're planting the seeds that there is a better way to approach human health.

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It's just fascinating. And you talk about how far back a lot of this stuff goes. Well, I mean, for me, the practice of Christianity, you even see elements and scripture where God speaks the world into existence. And the sonic vibrations are literally formed by the mouth and the tongue. And we see other places where in Proverbs, it talks a lot about death and life being in the power of the tongue, or the tongue being mightier than the sword. And it is actually crazy that, yeah, part of it is what you're actually saying, the words that you're forming, the emotions that those are producing, but then part of it is the actual sonic vibrations of your tone, which of course many of us have experienced with music as well.

So, up until about probably, I don't know, 15 minutes ago, I would have said that the term resonant frequency was a total woo-woo term. And now I understand what resonant frequency means. We're talking about the membranes, and the cilia, and the cells. But then there's another term that I think also gets an eyebrow raised at it, so to speak, and that is the biofield. People heard that and then they're like, “Okay. I can take out a magic camera and film the light coming off my body or whatever.” How would you describe as a neurologist the biofield?

Kulreet:  Well, so the biofield is actually a medical term, and this term came out of the National Institute for Health, the NIH, because they had pulled together a group of scientists and physicians and said, “Look, there's a lot of research coming out that there's techniques like acupuncture, technique like energy healing.” We have positive results for these studies. We cannot deny the science of it, but we don't have even a language to explain why this works. So, I really congratulate the NIH because they came to a point of saying, “We know that this works. We don't even want to necessarily admit that it works because it challenges our entire paradigm of medicine, but we now know that this works.” So, how do we explain that this works? So, the term biofield, it's just a shortened form of biological field, which was actually coined by Dr. Beverly Rubik and she's a biophysicist and brilliant woman. I mean, just absolutely brilliant woman. She's one of my personal heroes.

Ben:  Beverly Rubik is her name?

Kulreet:  Yes, Beverly Rubik. Just really, she's so, so ahead of her time. And essentially, biofield is just, it's a massless field. It's not necessarily electromagnetic. And I already described to you some of the electromagnetic fields that we generate from the heart and the brain, which is why we have the ability to record EEGs and EKGs. But it's said to surround and permeate living bodies, and it actually affects the biology of the body. So, again, even when we say things like, “Gosh, this sounds like really woo-woo,” the reality is you can't deny a biofield and go get an EKG because then that would undermine the very science behind an EKG because the EKG is measuring your electromagnetic field.

And so, a biofield is just basically saying that, yes, there's parts of us that we can poke at, like you can poke at your muscle, you can poke at your bones and say, “Okay. There I am. I'm solid.” But there's parts of you that you can't poke at, but they still exist in you and around you, and they are affecting your biochemistry, and we now can measure them. And so, as our measurements get better, it is challenging our science that we are only skin and bone, and we are only the things that we can see. And I think the way Beverly Rubik described it is just again brilliant. She calls it nature's original wireless communication system. And so, it'd be a little bit like saying, “Well, I don't believe that there's wireless communication goal. I'm using it right now on my computer. I don't have anything plugged in and yet I'm connected to this internet. How am I connected to that?”

If our computers have the capacity to make those kinds of wireless connections, why on Earth would our body, which is far more complex than our computers, not have that capacity? So, it's always interesting to me that we use these technologies outside of medicine, but then we apply them back to the human body. Everybody goes, “Oh, that's crazy.” And it's like, “Why would that be crazy? If human beings are creating those technologies, why would we think that the creator of human beings didn't know how to do that?” Like, why would we think we're somehow smarter than the creator of the universe?

Ben:  Yeah. In this whole idea of biofield science or us being more than just flesh and blood, and also being vibratory beings, and I know that I was joking about the light cameras, but they actually have shown that human beings produce infrared light, for example, and other light particles. It's something that is now slowly being proven. And I think that anybody who has dabbled in, for example, let's say something like plant medicine, has certainly–if you are in a state where you're looking at another human being with your eyes open in more of a medicine space, you also see people in a very different light, pun intended, since you were throwing puns around earlier, I will. And you see vibrations and you see different colors and different lights coming off of that person, and you see them as something far more different than the flesh and blood that we might be looking at if we reduce everything to scientism or to the way that, let's say, modern allopathic medicine might look at a human being, so to speak.

We are a human being of light and of sound, and of vibratory frequencies that does go beyond flesh and blood. As difficult as that is for a lot of people to wrap their heads around, I think that part of the magic behind it and the idea that we are able to interact with each other almost down to a quantum physics level is something that because it's difficult to prove, that's one of the reasons that it's so darn cool and can cause, for example, something like my wife to be in the bedroom 15 feet away from me and me to be able to detect that something might be off with her because of the electromagnetic field that her heart might be sending, or that her brain might be sending.

Kulreet:  It's exactly right. And actually, these are the fields that connect us as human beings. And when you said, “We don't have to be scientific about it,” it actually is science. It's just a new science. We're holding on to our old science, but this is actually being proved. And what's kind of interesting is so much of this was proved in quantum physics last century. And so many of the quantum physicists that realize this, they had predicted that eventually, biology is going to catch up with this. That what's missing now is an application of the quantum reality to biological systems, but they saw that the next step is eventually going to be understanding mass as a vibratory reality.

It's actually not a lack of proof, it is a lack of–people always ask me why is science so slow to change. I said, “Science is the most widely practiced religion on the planet,” because what happens is that when there is new information, people hold on to the old information like dogma, like, oh, that's the only thing that can be true. And science is something that is ever-evolving because human consciousness is something that is ever-evolving. So, I'm not a proponent of not being scientifically rooted. I'm actually the exact opposite. I love the science. I am just shocked that there were masters in India 8,000 years ago that were describing the subatomic nature of reality in these ancient texts. They were describing the atom, they were describing the electron, the proton, that they were describing this 8,000 years ago, and they were highly scientific, but they were applying those quantum principles now to biology. That is what fascinates me. And so, my draw there is not only as a spiritual being, being fascinated about who am I really, but also as a neuroscientist go like, “How did they know this? How were they able to peer into this before they had the technology that we would recognize as being advanced?”

Ben:  Yeah. One of the examples that you give, by the way, of the biofield that I thought was interesting was heparin, the anti-clotting medication. I guess you called it the anticoagulant medication. There was one researcher who you mentioned who actually tested the frequency that could be produced by, say, a medication. Can you describe that work on heparin?

Kulreet:  Yeah. So, again, brilliant researcher. And he was not necessarily wanting to go down this field. He was very well-respected for the work that he had done in other areas of biomedicine. And there was an error that happened in his lab, which they originally thought was an error that he realized it wasn't an error, it's just showing that there's some kind of information that is being kept in some kind of a massless field. And so, he then further expanded his experiments to looking at do medications essentially produce a biofield. And what he found was that when they looked at the resonant frequency of heparin–now remember, this is according to quantum physics, all of life has a frequency. And so, if you can apply the correct tools, you can make those frequencies audible to the human ear.

And so, he used technology that essentially used amplifiers, too, for the human ear to be able to hear the frequency that heparin makes. And what they did is they just applied that frequency to water. So, there's something about water that contains the memory of sound. And this is also a very, very ancient finding. And they talk about this regularly in old text of how to use water and sound for healing. And so, if he applied the frequency, the audible sound of the resonant frequency of heparin to water, if a person drinks that water–and so, no heparin has been added to the water. If a person drinks that water, in their body, they had the exact same effect as if they took the medicine.

Ben:  That's crazy. And isn't that kind of sort of what homoeopathic medicine is based around this idea that certain liquids such as water can carry the frequency of the element that they've been exposed to, or the medication they've been exposed to? Has there actually been research that shows that just because it carries the frequency, it can have a similar effect? Like, could you, for example, take water that had been imprinted with, let's say, the same frequency as the anticoagulant medication heparin and still see some type of anticoagulant effect even if it were weaker from consuming that water?

Kulreet:  Yes. And it wasn't weaker. It was the same. That was exactly what research shows.

Ben:  Oh, this research shows the water was the same?

Kulreet:  Yes. That the water was the same. And he didn't intend to be the researcher who did this, and it created a huge stir in the scientific community and people didn't want to believe it and they really attacked him. It was really only because of his previous reputation that people took him seriously. And this experiment was replicated in multiple different countries by multiple independent labs, and it kept showing the same thing over and over. And so, it feels like homeopathy, which also was one of the ancient sciences that originated from Indian was eventually taken, I believe it was to Germany, and then given the title of homeopathy. But these are the kinds of things that people were doing in these ancient civilizations thousands and thousands of years ago.

But even like within Christianity, when we look at many of the miraculous acts that Jesus performed, when you look at things from a quantum level, when you look at them from a vibratory level, what you realize is there is actually a science behind this, and that these individuals that were elevated to that divine level, they had an intimate understanding of how nature worked. And so, they were able to approach nature in the same way that we would approach electricity of like going, “Oh, well, we know how to take electricity and do with it what we want because we understand the concept of electricity.” So, these are bodies of knowledge that we find over and over and over in ancient civilizations that are being used by what I would consider like enlightened masters. They understood that this is the true reality of the world.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And for me, again like as a Christian, sometimes I'm cold out because I like to use things like Tibetan singing bowls and I play handpan. I find the handpan to be incredibly therapeutic, especially in the evening. And I love the concept of gongs and sound healing. And I've gone to see folks like my previous podcast guest, Porangui, down in Sedona, Arizona, and had him blast didgeridoos and drums and all manner of different instruments while doing deep tissue work and breathwork. Another former podcast guest, Michael Tyrrell, he's actually composer who composes these healing tracks called Wholetones, which are conducted at a specific hertz frequency that's just absolutely relaxing to entire body. My pets, both my dogs, Dasher and Comet, they'll come downstairs in the living room from getting a massage and play these sounds, this music from Michael Tyrrell, just because the sound seems so therapeutic to the body.

And so, yeah. There's definitely something to be said for all of the different ways that these frequencies can be used. But of course one thing that's often tied to, say, singing bowls, for example, like you could buy a set of seven different singing bowls, like Tibetan singing bowls, and you'll get exposed to the idea that each one is tuned to different chakra, a different chakra in the human body.

You tackled chakras a little bit. And actually, given argument in the book that they are related to major bundles of nerves that travel along the spine, can you talk about that a little bit, whether chakras have actually been proven to exist? And if so, what might be the underlying biological mechanism for them?

Kulreet:  Sure. So, first, let me just explain the way that chakras are viewed from eastern philosophy. Chakras are basically looked at as merging points of energy and matter. So, now that makes sense when we start talking about the fields that are surrounding and permeating the human body. It makes sense that there would be certain coins where those energy fields would suddenly condense and communicate with the physical body. And there are seven major chakras. There's actually much, much more than that. There are seven major chakras that we tend to talk about. And I always thought it was really interesting that the location of those chakras were always next to major nerve bundles, and the nervous system is the one system.

I think this is why this is so easy for me to think about vibratory medicine because as a neurologist, the nervous system runs off of electricity. It's not hard to go from electrical impulse to vibratory impulses. So, to me as a neurologist, it would make sense that if there were merging points of the energy bodies or the biofield surrounding the physical body and permeating this physical body, that you would have these highways that would then possibly translate that information to major nerve bundles possibly in the form of electromagnetic waves because the nervous system is really built for that kind of communication. And so, when you say something like, “Have shockers been proven to exist?” you have to remember that in order to prove something, you have to be looking for it.

And so, we haven't had researchers in the past were like, “Well, let's actually look at this. Let's see if we can measure it.” But because of this new field of medicine biofield, there's an entirely new set of equipment that is emerging from this, and this is really exciting to me. We actually had some researchers that came to India, and what they were measuring were just, were there areas in the human body where the electromagnetic field suddenly became very, very dense? And when they were doing these measurements as people were being exposed to some of these very ancient sounds, these ancient mantras and these ancient forms of musical instruments, what they found was that those areas that coalesced in the exact same areas that people described as chakras from the past, that those areas became bigger.

And so, there is this new equipment, this new technology that is emerging that is starting to substantiate that. But when you don't have people who, number one, even believe in chakras, it's hard then to do research around it. And I think as we demystify all of this, like if we stop looking at chakras as something that you are only experiencing in states of deep meditation, but you just start looking at the human body and go, “Huh, that is weird that you have these major nerve bundles in the exact same area where ancient medical systems described where the chakras would be located. And, huh, that really is interesting that you have this nervous system that has a capacity of generating electromagnetic waves.” And we know now that there are fields that we are now just trying to measure like, “Wow. What if they knew that those were the areas where information was suddenly being passed from the non-physical fields to the actual physical body?” That to me just doesn't sound like, “Oh, well, that's impossible to conceive of.” I think like, “Hey, that's a really interesting model. Let's start to test it. Let's start to measure.”

Ben:  Come on, they haven't studied that at Cedars-Sinai. It's impossible. I get what you're saying. And when it comes to the chakras, for example, my boys and I will often do breathwork sessions, and some of the breathwork sessions that we do, especially using this form of breathwork called SOMA, which was designed actually by another former podcast guest of mine, Niraj Naik. It involves that auming at the end of some of the long inhales where you're drawing the breath from the root chakra up to the crown chakra, trapping it, similar to something you might do during tantric breath from the sexual organs all the way up to the top of the head. And then, when you're releasing that energy, you're doing that aum type of sound with, from what I understand, each of those different sounds of aum, basically relating to the root chakra, the A, and then the U being the heart chakra, and the M, I believe is the–what's the third eye?

Kulreet:  What's the third eye? The Ajna chakra. Yeah, third eye.

Ben:  Yeah, the Ajna chakra. And so, you're basically using sound, using the vibrations of your voice to move energy through the chakras. However, that's of course three chakras, the heart, the crown, and the third eye. And you get into, in the book, this idea of a chakra mantra for balancing all of the chakras.

And I'd love to hear you explain that because one really interesting thing is I have this thing called a BioCharger. One of the settings on the BioCharger, which uses pulsed electromagnetic frequency, negative ions, RF, and light is it produces these sounds that go up and down in seven different frequencies with seven different kind of light variations. And it's a chakra balancing. They call it a chakra balancing recipe. And sometimes, I'll sit in front of that and meditate, but then you also have a mantra that I would imagine using your own sound could do something similar. Can you describe your chakra mantra?

Kulreet:  Yeah. So, it's not only that it does something similar. This is where that technology came from. This is what I was saying is that as we start to look at how sound produces electromagnetic fields, and then we start to understand what these energy centers are that they are a meeting point for energy and the body that then as we apply particular sounds to open up these centers, it's going to generate electromagnetic fields, which then are propagated through the nervous system to the entire body. This is the ancient science that these new technologies are using. And I think it's perfectly fine to use equipment for it, but you are actually built to do this. I mean, that was the whole purpose of us being able to vocalize and for us to be able to–

Ben:  Yeah. But I mean, it's fun to spend $12,000 and biohack it, too.

Kulreet:  Yeah. No. That's totally fine, too. Absolutely, yeah. I could also give you a free mantra, but up to you.

Ben:  Right. I personally like both. I like both. I like to play with the technology and then I like to just strip things down and totally unplug.

Kulreet: I'm actually the same. I like doing both for some of the stuff that are mind-related. I like some of the technology, but then I really love diving into the agent stuff. But so this chakra mantra, it's very, very old. It's the ancient chakra mantra, and it just holds the resonant frequency for every major chakra. Now, we say that the crown chakra doesn't actually have a sound, but all the other six chakras have a resonant frequency. And what you're doing is you're just repeating the sounds. And you can first start with doing this out loud. And then, as you get to know it better, you can just start to do it silently. It's actually more powerful when you do it silently. And my husband actually recorded this on a CD, if people want it. It's just on iTunes under Dr. Chaudhary Chakra Mantra. And you can just do this. First start with 5 minutes, then 10 minutes, then 15 minutes, then 20 minutes. And we typically don't recommend more than 20 minutes because it is releasing also a lot of blocked energy. And the sounds are, they just go like this. It's hadi om, nam lam, mam vam, sim ram, vam yam, yam ham, shiva om, swaha.

And so, that is just the sound of it, and I'm happy, Ben, if you would like me to give you something written, if you want to share with people. But those are just the sounds of your energy centers. And so, as you start to do this on a regular basis, people are usually really surprised when they start having like detoxification symptoms in the body from doing the chakra mantra and they're like, “How could this be happening?” I said, “Well, you're opening up all of the blocks in the area. You're having energy move. And when energy moves, neural impulses are moving. And when those impulses are moving, they're going out to your organs and releasing, messaging that is shifting your biochemistry. So, of course you would be having changes.”

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And I'll link to this at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/soundmedicine if you send over to me the link to that audio, Kulreet. But yeah. I mean, what you described, as you're saying hadi om, nam lam, mam vam, sim ram, vam yam, yam ham, shiva om, swaha, it's just doing that. And how long would you actually chant that mantra to really, say, balance the chakras? What's this look like logistically?

Kulreet:  You only need maximum 20 minutes. And that's why I said we don't even recommend more than 20 minutes because that's usually too much energy for the majority of people. So, not more than 20 minutes. And I look at this chakra mantra as like, you give your physical body a shower every day to keep it clean. This is the same shower you give to your energetic body. It's the meditation that I do every single day. And if there is a reason, for some reason, like if I'm traveling or something happens, I can just feel the difference. It's just like you would feel a difference if you don't take a shower.

Ben:  Yeah. I love to do these things with my kids. So, if you send that audio, I'll put it in the shownotes. And for those of you listening in, I'll try it a few times with my boys River and Terran because I just love to share stuff like this with them and wish I'd have learned a lot more of this type of thing when I was a kid. So, we'll probably sit in the sauna and just do it for 20 minutes. And then, I usually will talk with them for a few minutes afterwards and see how they feel about it and what they experienced. I just think it's wonderful, not only to learn about this stuff on a podcast, but then to just play with it. And I understand, I do a lot of interviews, a lot of people, and some stuff will stick and some stuff won't, but I really love to simply try things, and some stuff does stick and really does make your life better. So, I think that trying out a mantra-based meditation just to see what doing your own type of sound healing would actually feel like is something that might be really interesting for a lot of people.

Ben:  Now, you're an integrative neurologist, Kulreet, and you practice sound medicine and include it in the treatment of chronic disease. But I don't really know how to find other practitioners who would do something like this. You're in San Diego, obviously. So, if we had somebody who lived in San Diego in there listening in, maybe they could look you up. But are there other people that do what you do? I mean, how could people find someone who uses an approach similar to you, or do you know of others who do, or you're just like a total unicorn?

Kulreet:  I think I'm a unicorn in the neurology field. There might be one or two more like me, but it's not that I'm a unicorn in the medical field, not at all. And the nice thing is–well, first of all, I mean, just with how many consultations people are now starting to do like via Skype and so forth, you now have more access to practitioners that were maybe regional that are now seeing people. Like I see people from all over the world because I'm sometimes here and I'm sometimes in India. And I think that's happening more and more that people are becoming global physicians. But there's also, just like you mentioned, there's certain musicians like Deva Premal and Miten. They record healing sounds using different mantras. They're available just on CD. I mentioned the CD that my husband and I made just to help people understand how to make the pronunciations for the chakra mantra.

But there's also meditation teachers like Transcendental Meditation is a bija mantra meditation technique. And there's also music therapy. I mean, that is an actual legitimate career that is being recognized by the medical community. And there's music therapists that are there to help conditions like PTSD and anxiety. And so, it partly just depends on how do you want to approach this. People have heard of like sound bath, but I go, “If the only time you took a bath was when it was available in public, you wouldn't be bathing every single day.” So, a sound bath is great once in a while, but you should be doing something on a daily basis. And if you don't know where to start, this chakra mantra is a really, really phenomenal place to begin your sound medicine daily practice because there's very few sound medicine practice that are this holistic where they actually literally tune the entire body.

Ben:  Interesting. Is there like a practitioner directory or anything like that, kind of like the Institute for Functional Medicine has if you wanted to find a functional medicine practitioner?

Kulreet:  Not for sound therapy because our sound medicine, because it's still something that is early on in being recognized as an actual therapy, and I think it's more in the form of music therapy, but music is only one type of sound healing. And so, this is a very, very ironically very young and extremely ancient field at the same time, so it has not yet been organized in that way.

Ben:  But I mean, you could probably do a Google search and find some interesting things like sound healing, hemorrhoids, and just see what comes up. And perhaps you could just start there, finding some different sound frequencies or mantras or tips. And I realized that the comment section of blog posts and deep dark forums in Reddit are probably not the best place to go if you are experiencing a serious medical issue, yet you might be able to do a lot of research and find some interesting things. And obviously, Kulreet, your book is a very good place to start. In my book “Boundless,” I actually have a small section. I believe it's in the recovery chapter on sound healing. And I recommend some other books there in that chapter of “Boundless.” And so, that might be a couple of places for folks to get started.

And then, everything that the good doctor and I have talked about, I'm also going to link it, too, at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/soundmedicine. Kulreet, I think my assistant has your email address. And if you email her that audio or anything else, any links you want me to add, I'll do that for folks so they've also got access to that stuff if you think there's anything interesting that people might like in terms of like a prerecorded mantra meditation or anything like that. I'll definitely make that happen.

Kulreet:  Yeah, sure. I'll send the links. And one of the reasons why I wrote the book was so that people did have like a reliable, safe, and scientifically based resource for entering into this world so that they didn't feel like they were lost. I mean, I can't be there for everybody all over the place, and that's the beautiful thing about writing books, as you know, is you take all of your expertise and condense it down into these pages so that anybody has access to it. Ben, some of these mantras, before, they were kept so hidden, so secret, and the whole goal of my work in India is just for people to have access to very ancient tools that have been so effective just to reduce suffering in their life.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. Well, I love what you're doing. I love the book. I'm glad I got it. I don't know where I got it or who sent it to me, but it's wonderful. So, thank you for writing it, Kulreet. And again, for those of you listening in, just go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/soundmedicine, and I'll link to the book and everything else that we discussed. And until next time. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary. How close did I get, by the way, during this entire podcast?

Kulreet:  You nailed it. You got it, you got it.

Ben:  Sweet. Alright. MD, signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.



I recently read Sound Medicine: How to Use the Ancient Science of Sound to Heal the Body and Mind. From a leading neurologist, neuroscientist, and practitioner of Ayurvedic medicine, it is a rigorous scientific investigation into the power of sound healing that shows readers how they can use it to improve their mental and physical wellbeing.

Why does a baby’s cry instantaneously flood a mother’s body with a myriad of stress hormones?

How can a song on the radio stir up powerful emotions, from joy to anger, regret to desire?

Why does sound itself evoke such primal and deeply felt emotions?

A vibration that travels through air, water, and solids, sound is produced by all matter and is a fundamental part of every species’ survival. But there is a hidden power within sound that has only just begun to be investigated. The book Sound Medicine takes you on a journey through the structure of the mouth, ears, and brain to understand how sound is translated from acoustic vibrations into meaningful neurological impulses.

Renowned neurologist, author of the book and Ayurvedic physician—and of course, my guest on today's podcast—Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary studies how different types of sound impact the human body and brain uniquely, and explores the physiological effects of sound vibration, from altering mood to healing disease. Blending ancient wisdom with modern science, Dr. Chaudhary traces the history of sound therapy and the use of specific mantras from previously unknown texts—traced back to the Siddhas, a group of enlightened yogis who created a healing tradition that served as the precursor to Ayurvedic medicine—to explain the therapeutic application of sounds for a wide range of conditions.

During this show, you'll get practical, step-by-step lessons for using music and mantras, whether you’re a beginner or searching for a more advanced practice, to improve your health in body, mind, and spirit.

Dr. Kulreet Chaudhary’s combined expertise in both modern neurology and the ancient science of health known as Ayurveda has uniquely positioned her as an expert able to pull from the broadest possible base to treat her clients. She is passionate about raising awareness for the need of a paradigm shift in contemporary medicine that focuses on patient empowerment and a health-based (rather than disease-based) medical system.

Dr. Chaudhary was the director of Wellspring Health in Scripps Memorial Hospital for ten years, and remains a pioneer in the field of Integrative Medicine. She has successfully developed a powerful system to manage chronic neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, and migraine headaches by incorporating fundamental changes in diet, behavior, and stress—in addition to the standard allopathic approach to these issues. This program has been so successful that many patients now use it not just for neurological issues but also for a wider range of health concerns, including weight issues and chronic disease.

Dr. Chaudhary is also the author of The Prime and has appeared as a medical expert on numerous programs including The Dr. Oz Show and Home & Family, where her teachings about Ayurvedic medicine have been applauded by a national audience. She is also a neuroscientist and has participated in over 20 clinical research studies in the areas of multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, and diabetic peripheral neuropathy. Her research includes groundbreaking work in stem cell therapies for diabetic peripheral neuropathy and drug development for the treatment of ALS. To learn more about Dr. Chaudhary, visit her webpage here.

During this discussion, you'll discover:

-Kulreet's path to expertise in Ayurveda and sound healing…6:45

-How the skin can “hear” sound waves similar to how bones can…13:55

  • The skin contains receptors that can detect vibrations
  • We're built to interact with sound on a cellular level
  • Primary cilia quiver like tuning forks
  • Strong human bias of what qualifies as “sound”
  • Vibratory medicine will increase in popularity in the next few decades
  • Safer and more effective than invasive surgeries

-Targeting cells or organs with specific hertz frequencies…18:49

  • Cells have their own individual “songs”: a unique frequency that can be translated into audible sound
  • Different cells associated with different tissues carry different primary resonant frequency
    • Tissues have their own internal frequencies
    • The primary resonant frequency, like, of a liver cell is its unique vocal fingerprint; unique to that particular tissue
  • Theory: Exposing unhealthy tissue to its own primary resonant frequency can return it to its healthy state
    • The same philosophy/science behind the ancient practices
  • Sound therapy part of a treatment plan for physical and mental illness; incorporated into different therapies like diet/herbal recommendations, yoga, exercise…
  • Ancient records in India describe the successful use of sound in treating cancer, paralysis, etc.
  • Future research will be on how sound affects electromagnetic waves in the body and causing biochemical changes
  • Tuning the Human Biofield by Eileen Day McKusick

-The biofield explained…29:40

  • The term came from the National Institute of Health, originally coined by  Beverly Rubik
  • The biofield is a massless field; surrounds and permeates living bodies and affects their biology
  • It refers to the parts of you that can't be seen or felt, but affect the biochemistry
  • Nature's original “wireless communication system”
  • Holding onto “old science” while “new science” is being proven to be correct

-Frequencies produced by medications…37:15

-Biological mechanisms behind the 7 Chakras…43:00

-Kulreet's chakra mantras…48:30

  • BioCharger
  • Holds resonant frequency for every major chakra in the body
  • Repeat sounds out loud, then silently
  • Chaudhary's Chakra Mantra on iTunes
  • People have reported physical changes when using the chakra mantra
  • Don't go longer than 20 minutes
  • Equivalent to a physical shower every morning

-How to find physicians who practice sound healing…53:55

-And much more…

Resources from this episode:

– Dr. Kulreet Chaudhury:

– BGF podcasts:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Ask Ben a Podcast Question

2 thoughts on “[Transcript] – Sound Medicine: How To Use The Ancient Science Of Sound To Heal The Body And Mind.

  1. eliza carraig says:

    I could not tolerate the Multiple Sclerosis medications for long. I started on MS Herbal Treatment from VHC, the herbal treatment immensely helped my Multiple Sclerosis condition, i had a significant recovery….. Go to  vinehealthcenter. c o m…..

  2. Jewel says:

    Thanks for the transcripts. Very helpful and informative. I just noticed a small typo with the mantra by Kulreet. It’s Hari and not Hadi

    Thanks again! Love your podcasts 💕

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