July 3, 2021
[00:00:52] Podcast Sponsors
[00:03:21] Pre-Podcast Talk
[00:05:04] The “Laser Cocktail” Protocol
[00:14:45] Why Botox Is One Of The First Great Anti-Aging Biohacks
[00:19:32] Whether Liposuction is Safe
[00:23:46] The Devil's Drug
[00:25:32] Podcast Sponsors
[00:27:50] cont. The Devil's Drug
[00:36:36] Why Most Topicals for the Face are Ineffective
[00:39:56] What's Hot in the World of Beauty and Anti-Aging
[00:50:26] The Story Behind the 5C in Cameron's clinic Name
[00:51:13] Closing the Podcast
[00:52:29] End of Podcast
Ben: On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.
Cameron: A lot of things topically can have effects and it may be like a 5% improvement, and that's real, that's the thing, but is that enough for what most people are after? When it's getting injected in these really realistically very small doses for cosmetic uses that it was getting into our central nervous system, whole different process in the conversion to brown fat, which tends to be more like chronic low-grade cold exposure, and this is like a very acute focal application of cold to fat cells.
Ben: Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.
The July 4th sale is on, which is why I have to sing like I'm singing some kind of patriotic song. I just made that up on spot. It's pretty good. Hey, Kion, the company that houses all of the nutritional supplements I formulate, the functional foods, the coffees, the wonderful Kion Lean, which comes in handy when you're having your July 4th beer, our Kion Aminos, which are wonderful when you're fasting, when you're muscle building, or the delicious organic energizing coffee and the decaf coffee, it's all over at Kion. And we're giving up to 25% site-wide from–what is it? July 2nd, I think, up to July 5th or so. I believe if you're listening to this after July 5th, sorry, you missed it. But anyways, if you're listening to this podcast at the time that it came out, then you are in, you get full access to everything coming up on the July 4th Kion sale. It's as American as apple pie, the 4th of July is, and I guess so our 4th of July sales now, too. So, go to getkion.com. Here's your code. Ready? Write this down, JULY4, like JULY the number 4 at getkion.com. You'll save up to 25% on all your favorite Kion products.
This podcast is also brought to you by Organifi. Here's the deal. Organifi is a company that makes these amazing delicious superfood blends. They use adaptogenic herbs, they use mushrooms, which help to balance your endocrine system as a stress adaptogens. They make it easier to add more nutrients into your day. They're wonderful for immunity, for low energy without having to rely upon caffeine and oodles of coffee. And I actually mix this stuff with coffee. I mix it with tea. I dump packets straight into my mouth. I use the reishi right before a nap and literally just dump a couple packets into my mouth. Relaxes me, but doesn't leave me groggy later on. Here's what they're going to do. They're going to run exclusive offer from my listeners only. If you go to Organifi, that's spelled with “I”, organifi.com/ben, anytime during the month of July, you can get 20% off plus free shipping. That's huge. Use code BEN. Twenty percent off plus free shipping is the biggest savings Organifi is ever going to offer. It's exclusive to my listener, so you go to Organifi with an “I” dot com/ben to take advantage of that exclusive offer.
Oh, my goodness, folks. Wow, I just got something done to my face. I don't know what it was, but we're about to find out because if you heard my podcast about hair growth, and really like beauty, and anti-aging, and skin repair in general with Dr. Cameron Chesnut that I released I guess at the time that you're listening to this a couple of months ago, then you're already familiar probably with where I'm at and what I've been up to because I ventured back down to Cam's place. Say hello, Cameron.
Cameron: Hello. How's everybody doing today?
Ben: They can't talk back. And I ventured back down here because Cameron had some other cool stuff he wanted to show me to continue my path to a lion's mane. So, first of all, I'm not going to reintroduce everything about Cameron to you, nor am I going to reintroduce everything we talked about in the fabulous last episode, which I think you can access at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth. This episode is accessible at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth2. That's hair growth the number 2.
So, anyways, we're back at Cameron's clinic. We just finished another crazy procedure for me and my wife, [00:04:31] _____, a perfect place to podcast right now because I've been podcasting since about 3:30 this morning non-stop. And I'm at my last one of the day where I'm kind of loopy, but lucid, and hopefully, able to creatively engage in meaningless chatter with you.
Cameron: A little mental exhaustion.
Ben: Yeah. That's good though because I'm with a really smart doctor. So, he gets to do the talking. I get to sit back and drink my Kirkland signature Italian sparkling mineral water with carbonation added and chew on a piece of nicotine gum..
Cameron: Beautiful [00:05:02] _____.
Ben: Alright. So, anyways, you put some numbing cream on my face, and I thought I was going to get microneedled like we did last time, but then you put me back and you put some sunglasses on me, or in this case, tanning goggles, you know my style, and then you used a laser on me. And Cameron, you know I'm a red light guy. I use the Joovv lights and the infrared sauna. I have what I thought was a laser device like this little handheld laser. But when you started zapping me with that thing, it felt more like a Star Wars laser gun like one might assume a laser would actually feel like.
So, tell me about this whole first protocol that we did. Just fill me on this whole–I think you called it a laser cocktail.
Cameron: Yeah, I do like to call it a laser cocktail. It's a little bit different for everybody who comes in and sort of what they need, but we did microneedling last time, which is very straightforward and simple. It's a physical modality to cause a little micro-injury that we have to heal from, and we'll use your PRP to heal that. What we did today is a bit different though and that we're using laser specifically to target different parts of skin aging, whatever you want to call it, different things we have different targets for. And so, you actually got a couple of different lasers. We targeted some pigment and some blood vessels in you separately, and then we went after a little bit more of what we call like a resurfacing laser to get after your collagen, elastin, targets water molecules.
Ben: I want to ask you how that actually works just out of sheer scientific curiosity when you're talking about how these photons of light actually affect things like pigmentation. But before I do, it felt like a shock, literally like an electric shock. You had me change glasses halfway through because you're using I guess a different wavelength. Is that correct?
Cameron: That's right, yeah.
Ben: Okay. And so, what's the difference between this type of laser that you use and what's it's called compared to just, say, me shining infrared light on my face?
Cameron: Yeah, exactly. So, the lasers that we're using are exponentially more powerful. They put out more wattage or have more energy, which we measure in joules to have the effect that they're after. So, just think of like a laser pointer. That's a laser, too. It's just a really, really low-power laser that can't quite do as much as something that is a little bit more amplified. And so, laser itself is actually an acronym, which I think some people know, some people don't. It stands for light amplification by stimulated emission and radiation.
Ben: I knew you're going to do that. I do that sometimes, too. I'll just fill a podcast space.
Cameron: But it's a nice amplification. More power goes through that particular tube and like a bigger laser like that so you just can get a lot more effect with the one that you felt, like pretty warm at the end there. We were maybe a third of the way towards this total energy that you can get.
Ben: Okay. So, in terms of the amount of energy delivered to my face, it's almost like it's concentrated in such a tight ball that I'm getting what I'd have to stand for a red light for hours to get the equivalent of.
Cameron: And it's not doing the same thing either. This is one of the other unique things. You talked about the wavelength. So, a laser has by definition a fixed wavelength. Just one wavelength of light is coming out of that, and that's determined by whatever the medium of the laser is, whether it's like a carbon dioxide gas laser, whether it's a dye laser, or whether it's a solid-state laser. There's all kinds of different things you can make to get different wavelengths. And the reason we want different wavelengths, as what you hinted at, is that each wavelength has a specific, we call it a chromophore or a target in the skin that it has a really high affinity for. So, if that's a pigment, or a blood vessel, or a collagen, each of these lasers is very specific for one of those particular types of targets. So, you can mix and match.
Ben: So, each chromophore responds to a specific wavelength. And by using lasers with different wavelengths, you're able to target the areas of the skin that express different chromophores?
Cameron: Exactly right, yup. So, some of them can target collagen or completely blind the pigment or vice versa. So, you can be really, really specific with what lasers do, which is why you can make a nice little cocktail out of them just like you can with anything else when you can mix and match things that work well together.
Ben: I thought you called it a cocktail because you're also mixing my blood.
Cameron: Oh, I see. Yeah, which we did at the end. We used your PRP, a different type of PRP than we used in your hair today, but we used a type of PRP on your face afterwards because the last laser that we did creates these little we call the microthermal zones, these little pixelated zones of–
Ben: Do you mean the one we finished up with tonight?
Cameron: Right, yeah.
Ben: Yeah, which felt more like a small sting, where the other one felt more like a flash of light.
Cameron: Yeah, like a rubber band snap versus little hot needles maybe type of thing. And that one creates these little micropores that we can get your PRP to penetrate down into.
Ben: And then, what about the hair? Is it pretty much doing the same thing on a hair follicular level? Because you were doing some other stuff up on my hair.
Cameron: Right. So, we switched to a different type of PRP for your hair that has a little bit of higher concentration of growth factors in it, and put that right around the hair follicles directly in this little fibrin matrix. So, that's sort of like a more slow-release delivery of those growth factors to your hair follicle over time versus what we put on top of your skin, we just delivered right to the areas that we injured today, if you will, and that went right away. There's no slow release. It's all there right now doing its thing.
Ben: Was that the injuries at the vibrators that you're using?
Cameron: No. The vibrators were to literally just distract you from the little needle entry points for the injections. You can't even feel the injections with the vibrators going.
Ben: No kidding.
Ben: Well, that's brilliant. Okay. So, the vibrators were just–I thought these were like super fancy scientific vibrators with microneedles that you were–
Cameron: I hate to break it to you. These are the type of vibrator you think of when you hear the word vibrator.
Cameron: And we coat them and–
Ben: That's good. You probably wouldn't want to have vibrators with needles.
Cameron: No. You don't want to get confused.
Ben: There's a very small subset of the population. I would appreciate that and buy it.
Cameron: Right, yeah. And those work via this thing called the gate theory of pain, which is certain nerves that carry pain, carry vibration, proprioception, lower positioning and pain, and temperature. So, if you can have something that's really cold and vibrating, it's harder to feel pain through that.
Ben: That's amazing. That's better than dipping my feet in cold water.
Cameron: It also works though.
Ben: Although it was funny actually last night, somebody sent me, not to totally derail our conversation, they sent me a Cryohelmet. I was actually going to try it earlier today. I didn't get a chance, but it's literally like a helmet that you keep in your freezer and you pull on and it does cold therapy for your entire head, and it's supposedly amazing for things like migraines or before you go to sleep. And so, I may pop in here next time. That's probably the least effective form of cold therapy I could wear to a hair growth clinic that would be the cold therapy helmet.
Cameron: Yeah, [00:11:53] _____.
Ben: Yeah. Okay. So, the other thing you mentioned was a type of acid that you use with the growth factor, tranexamic acid or something.
Cameron: Tranexamic acid. I don't necessarily use it with the growth factors here, but that is something that we use for, after lasers and things like that, to reduce redness. It can do a few things to inhibit angiogenesis. It enhances our blood's ability to go through its clotting cascade. It's a drug that's been used orally for women with heavy periods for a long time, and it's just finding its place interestingly in cosmetics and surgery where we mix it with local anesthesia to increase what we call hemostasis or the ability for us to control bleeding. And then, for things like melasma, which is a very frustrating pigment and blood vessel issue that happens in the skin when people get pregnant, when they're on hormones, when they have sun exposure, it's been quite changed in the way that that gets treated and it's very effective for it.
Ben: Okay, got it. So, we did the laser with the world's most expensive skin cream created from my own blood, and then did the vibrating with the microneedling on the head followed by more of the PRP applied to the scalp to allow for more follicular growth. Did another set of photographs beforehand because we're photographing this whole thing just to, I don't know, just to make sure that it actually works so you have proof. And then, the thing is that this is all very interesting, but a lot of people had some follow-up questions from the last podcast that we did. Botox, for example, is a big one. So, I definitely get into Botox. But before that is if someone were to call their local clinic or whatever and want to get something like this done, what do they tell the doctor that they want, like what's this called in anti-aging?
Cameron: Yeah. So, we did a bunch of things today. So, you had your hair restoration, which wasn't necessarily microneedles. It was actual needles and syringes injecting that. So, that'd be like PRP for hair. And then, as far as the laser goes, this is like a whole topic of discussion that is if you call and ask for a laser, it's, well, okay, what are we targeting? Is it blood vessels? Is it pigment? Is it wrinkles? Is it laxity? Is it just sort of basic gauging changes? And so, that's a tough one because there's a million brands of lasers, and those focus around a few key wavelengths usually, but you're basing that off of what your goals are, what your needs are, what your age is, how much downtime you have, and things like that.
Ben: Alright. So, call your local anti-aging clinic and then tell them to call Cameron because what I'm going to do at the end of this podcast after Cameron snuck out is I'll give you his cell phone number and you can just connect your doctor with Cameron. He'll tell them what to do. But seriously, by the way, you guys, if you go to the shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth2, I'll put a link to Cameron's clinic and stuff because he does do some telemedicine consults and stuff like that, if you want to chat with him about what you need.
Okay. Let's talk Botox, like fillers. Are fillers different than Botox?
Cameron: Yeah. That's such a good question. They are different, and I think it's a really common area of confusion as to what those things are because people may have heard of them. Some people haven't heard of fillers at all maybe, but Botox, everybody I think is pretty household at this point. And Botox is–it's kind of funny because in our comments and in my–people reaching out to me after the last one. I got a lot of questions about, what are Botox alternatives? I don't want to do Botox. And it's really funny to me because, yeah, I totally see that and I get it, but if you really go back to the history of Botox, it's probably one of the first real great biohacks. It is a true cosmetic biohack, yeah. So, Botox was discovered–
Ben: Like a poison, toxin?
Cameron: Well, yeah, it's a neurotoxin.
Ben: Kind of like the cyanide and almonds or natural built-in plant defense mechanisms in every plant out there?
Cameron: Right, and this is coming from botulinum of bacteria and it's very famous for living in honey. And kids can't eat honey because if it gets in their stomach, they can't kill it in their stomach acid, adults can, which is why babies can't have honey because they'll get flaccid from this, the botulinum toxin releasing the toxin in them.
Ben: Babies on Botox.
Cameron: Babies on systemic full-body Botox, not a good thing. But in low levels like anything else that maybe has some hormetic dosing is like, it's really helpful for your muscles to calm their strengthening that tends to–they tend to get a little bit stronger than our skin can stand and our facial musculature over time. And so, it started getting therapeutic use in the 20s, and then by the 70s, it had some indications for a lot of eye spasms or aberrant movements of our eye musculature. And in that, it was discovered like, “Oh, man, these people's eyes look really good and we're injecting this around there.” And that was the first sort of like, wow, this is an interesting anti-aging option that's in some sense natural coming from a bacteria, but then it's taken off from there. Botox has multiple indications for lots of different things throughout medicine from spastic bladders to contracted muscles in the neck, and then a bunch of cosmetic uses. And it's interesting and that it affects the neuromuscular junction, relaxes muscles from getting a signal that the nerve can't communicate to make the muscle fire. There's a bunch of effects it has on these–
Ben: It's almost a little paradoxical. You think like a loose face would be saggy and wrinkled, and a tight face would be more firm and youthful-looking, but Botox is loosening.
Cameron: Well, Botox is taking your face and making it look like you're in repose, like at rest instead of where people may be frowning all the time or lifting up their eyebrows to elevate things and get those lines in their forehead. The idea is just to relax that function, not to take it away, but just to relax it so you don't break down your skin quite so much.
Ben: Yeah. Maybe a dumb question, but how long does it last when you get that injected?
Cameron: Yeah. So, it lasts about three or four months usually. It's very temporary. There's a new product coming out that's going to last a little bit longer, but for the most part, three or four.
Ben: What does that one called?
Cameron: That's a [00:18:03] _____ product that's coming out and it's in the pipeline coming.
Cameron: But it's going to be a neuromodulator botulinum toxin as well.
Ben: Now, aren't there concerns about the side effects of Botox? Isn't that one of the reasons that you'll find in the alternative medicine sector? For example, people are doing things like emailing you and saying, “Can I smear honey on my face and stuff?”
Cameron: Right. And a lot of the concern over Botox is whether it entered the central nervous system, which was a big concern when it's getting injected in these really realistically very small doses for cosmetic uses that it was getting into our central nervous system. And that is based off of its distant cousin, tetanus toxin, which does get in the central nervous system. And it's been proven that Botox neuromodulators like botulinum toxin are not crossing into our central nervous system, which I think was the biggest concern with them. So, again, I am not saying like Botox is great, everybody's got to go do it. I just think it's really a humorous little aside that people in maybe biohacking world are so very, very against it, but it's funny to me. That's like, well, it's like–
Ben: Let's take [00:19:12] _____ get Botox, you would just be like, whatever.
Ben: That's fine. No concerns. Okay, alright.
Cameron: Yeah. It's just got to be done well in small doses and it does a really great job for what it's for. It changes the way our fibroblasts react and it upregulates collagen synthesis. It has effects on wound healing. It's got a lot of good benefits. Yeah.
Ben: Okay. Alright, cool. Good to know. Another question that, this one won't surprise you, that came up was liposuction. Kind of a similar thing like, “I want a natural alternative,” or, “Is liposuction safe and healthy?” So, what's the deal right now with liposuction or liposuction alternatives?
Cameron: Yeah. So, liposuction, just for those that don't know, it's just manually applying suction to remove fat from wherever you want it, abdomens, thighs, flanks, whatever it may be. And that falls under this category of different types of body work and it's a very direct way to get rid of fat that's there. It physically reduces the amount, the volume, the number of fat cells that are there. There's other ways to get around it or to do the same types of things. So, it just depends on somebody's baseline like where you're standing, what you need, what your goals are. There's this really cool story of using freezing to reduce fat.
Ben: Yeah, crow freeze or cool sculpted?
Cameron: Yeah. And so, that was discovered by one of our dermatology colleagues who's the father of a lot of these devices and lasers. And there's this thing that little kids get called popsicle panniculitis where if they hold a popsicle in their cheek for too long, it causes the fat in the side of their cheek to necros and go away. And little kids' fat is a little bit more saturated than adults, so it's easier for it to turn into a solid-state.
Ben: This is fascinating. Kids were sucking on popsicles and melting away fat in their face.
Cameron: Freezing their cheek fat. Popsicle panniculitis. Panniculitis means inflammation of fat. And so, that was like, hey, that's a really interesting thing. No damage to surrounding skin, nerves, muscles, anything like that, just the fat's very sensitive to cold. And so, at certain temperatures, which is what cool sculpting is designed to do, it gets that fat to the temperature where the fat cells slice or die. The surrounding skin muscle and everything is just fine and you get a reduction of fat that way. So, it sounds like a miracle and it's not quite [00:21:27] _____.
Ben: Amazing. Do you know how many popsicles and vibrators you're going to sell from this podcast episode?
Ben: So, this cool sculpting, it's totally non-invasive. It's literally just like a cold wand?
Cameron: It's an external applicator that has a suction in it and pulls in the fat that you want to freeze if you will, and it applies cool to that area to a very specific temperature for a very specific amount of time. Then it comes off and the fat gets inflamed, that's the panniculitis part, and then it gets auto digests and those–
Ben: Because when you do cryotherapy, it's a conversion, like a lot of it gets converted into more metabolically active brown adipose tissue, which generates heat. But in this case, it's literally just atrophying and dying?
Cameron: Yeah. This is a different process and that like a full-body cryotherapy is going to do because in your full-body cryotherapy, your fat cells aren't getting to that same temperature that they are when it's focally applied. You wouldn't be able to withstand that temperature. But, you're right, a whole different process than the conversion to brown fat, which tends to be more like chronic low-grade cold exposure as many people know, and this is like a very acute focal application of cold to fat cells.
Ben: Now, in terms of liposuction, I've actually had it done because I needed to get stem cells from my adipose tissue. And as a very lean guy, that was not fun for me. I mean, they're just all over my back tissue. I was sore for a couple of months afterwards, but that's where they could get the fat. Obviously, not what I would classify as a minimally invasive protocol, but are there minimally invasive forms of liposuction aside from something like cool sculpting?
Cameron: It would depend on your goal for–if your goal is body contouring, liposuction is relatively just more aggressive, just because you've got to get under the areas that you want to reduce to get rid of that fat. Most of the liposuction I do is very similar to what you mentioned, which is to harvest it for facial fat transfer or harvesting stem cells out of it. That is quite minimally invasive. That can be done with just a little bit of local anesthesia and a really, really small cannula to get it. And like you're saying with you, even someone who's really lean, you can often find enough fat to get what you need, but you're again not doing it for a body contouring for the procedure. If you're doing that, you tend to probably have just a little bit more baseline to go after, which just makes it a bigger procedure overall.
Ben: Okay, got it. I was just writing a note to myself to say something about popsicles and vibrators in the title for today's podcast episode. Now, you guys know what we're talking about. Okay. Another one was that there's PRP, but then somebody asked about PRF. What's PRF?
Cameron: So, PRP is platelet-rich plasma. PRF is platelet-rich fibrin. And that fibrin makes this little matrix that I was talking about. It's part of our blood clotting cascade and it's one of the structural components that starts physically holding things together as wounds healing or as we're trying to seal off a bleeding vessel or a clot or something like that. So, this fibrin makes this little, like I said, matrix that it holds some of the PRP in, which is the PRP's coming from platelets themselves. So, PRF is more of like a gelatinous gel, almost a semi-solid. I can link this maybe in the site. At one of my Instagram posts, I show what it looks like.
Ben: Yeah, email it to me.
Cameron: And you can see what something like PRF looks like. So, they're different. And I don't know that one's better or worse than the other. They're not doing the same things if you ask me, like PRP is injectable, simple, straightforward. When I'm using PRF, I'm using it in surgeries under areas where I've operated to give a growth factor bomb, I call it. And at the same time, start off that healing that the fibrin itself is kind of like a glue. So, that heals things back together.
Ben: Okay. So, this is not something you'd make like a cream with and apply after microneedling or lasers. This is something you would inject into a joint for a regenerative surgery?
Cameron: Sure. Something along those lines, yeah, or use under an area that we call like a flap or use under a facelift or an eyelid surgery or something, just start the healing or do some swelling or do some bruising just by kicking off the healing cascade really.
Hey, I want to interrupt today's show because the website where I shop for my online healthy groceries where I get pumpkin mash and dark chocolate, and you can get all sorts of different nut butters and healthy gluten-free cereals, pretty much any healthy pantry item you name this website has, they let you easily shop by 70 plus diets like keto, paleo, gluten-free, vegan, non-GMO, Fair Trade Certified, BPA-free, you name it. They've got this wonderful app that allows you to skip the store and the lines and get access to a ton of stuff you're not going to find at the grocery store, a ton of stuff you're not even going to find on Amazon at a fraction of the cost because it's a membership-based website. So, they pass all the savings on to you, and it's called Thrive, Thrive Market. What Thrive Market is going to do is they're going to give you a free gift of up to 24 bucks in free groceries when you join today. The membership comes down to like 5 bucks per month. So, it's kind of a no-brainer. You skip one latte and you pay for your entire membership for the month. And I'm going to give you the URL that allows you to get access to all of this. You're going to love this website, thrivemarket.com/ben. You don't need a code or anything like that. It's all you need, thrivemarket.com/ben.
And if you like that, I got something else cool that you're going to dig. I'm going to give you 20% off of my favorite athletic gear. So, there's this company called Vuori. It's spelled V-U-O-R-I, if I can spell that correctly. What they make is fashionable fitness clothing that moves well, that dries well. I'm loving it for the summer, by the way. You can run, you can train, you can spin, you can paddleboard, yoga, you name it, but it's great to cruise around in the rest of the day as well. Now, they're an athletic gear clothing company focused primarily on men, finally, but they actually have some really cool women stuff, too. My wife loves their women's products. They have this really cool performance jogger that a lot of women like. It's distractingly comfortable. And what they're going to do is give 20% off, 20%, like I said, to all my listeners. You go to vuoriclothing.com/ben. That's V-U-O-R-Iclothing.com/ben. That's going to give you 20% off at checkout. So, check them out, vuoriclothing.com/ben.
Tell me about the devil's drug. This one's interesting. I hadn't heard of this before, but there's some chatter about it, apparently. It's getting a lot of online buzz right now. So, the devil's drug is apparently something in the beauty sector, but I don't know anything about it at all. I figured you probably would.
Cameron: Yeah. So, that's a funny name for it, the devil's drug, is isotretinoin, which people know probably better as Accutane.
Ben: Isotretinoin. Oh, Accutane, okay.
Cameron: Accutane, yeah. And so, that's a drug that's been used for acne, and it's a really powerful medication for that. It's a vitamin A derivative. We call that a retinoid. Lots of people have heard of retinoids, retinols, and things like that for topical skin creams. But this is an oral version of it and it's really powerful on our sebaceous glands, which are what's controlling acne a lot of times. So, it's been around a long time for acne and it can put people under remission, like it can, if you will, cure their acne. They can take a course of it and then they don't have it anymore after that.
Ben: Less smelly than rubbing raw liver on your face.
Ben: It's from polar bear. You get a lot of vitamin A.
Cameron: That's right.
Ben: People actually get vitamin A toxicity from bear livers.
Cameron: That's exactly. Polar bear specifically.
Ben: Right, exactly.
Cameron: They eat some pretty fatty animals, those polar bears.
Ben: So, this devil's drug is actually Accutane that's a high vitamin A compound used for acne.
Cameron: Right. And so, it's evolved in its life to be from a severe, severe acne medication to becoming a little bit more of like a designer drug for anti-aging, and skincare, and things like that where people are almost microdosing it, taking small amounts of it more frequently.
Cameron: No, orally.
Cameron: Yup. Taking it orally in small doses.
Ben: But is that how Accutane was originally used was–
Ben: Oh, I thought Accutane was a topical.
Cameron: Nope, it's an oral medication.
Ben: Okay, got it.
Cameron: Yup. So, they're taking it orally in small doses over time to prevent aging, help their skin just look better. And it's interesting and that some of the European soccer teams are using it as well to protect some joint cartilage because there's some evidence that it protects the degradation of type 2 collagen and the type 2 collagen extracellular matrix, which is the collagen that we have in cartilage. And so, it may be this little bit of a double benefit for someone who's an active, young, fit, healthy person that–well, your skin looks great.
Ben: When you say microdosing with Accutane, what would a normal dose be for microdose?
Cameron: Microdose now, that just makes it sound sexy. It's not really probably microdosing, but people may be taking like 10 milligrams a day regularly, or 10 milligrams every other day or three times a week versus a regular dose of Accutane might be 40 milligrams a day.
Ben: Okay. So, this would be like somebody taking valium and cutting their tablet in quarters like that?
Cameron: Yeah, smaller doses.
Ben: Okay. Alright, got it. Interesting. So, do you think that there are any downsides to, let's say microdosing with Accutane?
Cameron: Yup. There's a whole lecture that you could give on just the downsides of taking isotretinoin. It has effects on really drying out your skin, which is actually probably one of the benefits that it has for people that have oily skin. And then, there's a lot of issues with–it's big, big, big risk. It's a teratogen. You can't take it when you're pregnant or conceiving a kid. There's bad, bad effects there. And so, pregnancy category exits the bad one. And so, that's probably one of the biggest concerns with this more recreational use of it a little bit, but then it has effects on bones and all kinds of things like that. So, not again, hence the devil's drug.
Ben: Especially if you're a pregnant soccer player.
Cameron: If you do not want to be a pregnant European soccer player taking isotretinoin.
Ben: What would you do knowing what you know if you had, let's say, somebody come in with horrific acne?
Cameron: Right. And so, this is a really great question. This goes into what are those alternatives. And we talked a little bit earlier about lasers, and lasers being a really great option for different chromophores in the skin. And chromophores just being those specific targets and it's not uncommon that people are just like, “I maybe need Accutane. I don't want to take it. It's not something I'm going to do. How can we go after this?” And that's where I really get into pretty aggressive laser protocols where I'll use sometimes like a photosensitizing drug called a porphyrin that I'll put on top, and that tends to penetrate down into oil glands because they have a high energy metabolism, so they take those up.
And now, you have smart bombed your target, putting a photosensitizer in there, then you can use different lasers to specifically target those oil glands to start shutting them down. You can even use red and blue light for that sometimes to shut them down. We know that blue light has an effect on acne by affecting these bacteria called Propionibacterium acnes, P acnes we call it. And so, it can calm that down and blue light alone can have some effect to improve acne. And so, when you're pairing that with something that's a little bit more aggressive like a laser protocol, laser cocktail, as I like to call it, you're going to get a much, much better effect and targeted.
Ben: Are there different forms of–and the reason I ask is I'll often give someone nutritional advice to avoid insulinogenic foods, omega-6 fatty acids. Almost like Loren Cordain, one of the godfathers of the paleo diet, wrote a book way back in the day, you could probably still find, called “The Dietary Cure to Acne.” My wife had bad acne and that cured it. Within a couple of weeks, her face cleared up. Do adults come to you who perhaps–let's say, they're eating a good diet, but they actually have acne. Is that a thing?
Cameron: Oh, for sure. And acne has so many different–yes, if there's different types of acne, the answer is yes. And you can even see patterns of somebody is like–where it's located on their face. For example, traditional hormonal acne tends to be like we call along the chin strap, the lower part of the face, whether it's–and young people who have elevated hormone levels, like I said, a lot of it's–it's this cycle of our hair follicles, which we pour for lack of a better term, right? Where our oil glands and our hair follicles are coming out of just the amount of production coming out of those is so aggressive that they just can't clear themselves. And so, that causes, we call a comedone. And people might call it zit or something like that underneath. And the level of what you're doing to stimulate that growth versus clean out your pores versus calm down the bacteria that lives in there, all those are going to play into what's happening.
And so, if you're really pro-inflammatory, you are going to have worse acne. If you're taking something like isotretinoin, that's going to calm down your oil production, that's going to help your acne. So, there's a bunch of different dietary nutritional systemic things that you could do to improve it, or like I was talking about, going directly to the skin surface itself with different types of lasers to help that process.
Ben: If you did that with lasers, is it permanent?
Cameron: Yeah. So, you're talking about what it does to the acne?
Ben: For acne, yeah.
Cameron: Yeah. You can have durable long-lasting effects on.
Ben: No kidding.
Ben: Wow. It's amazing.
Cameron: It's really amazing.
Ben: What about eczema? Would lasers work for something like that also?
Cameron: Yeah. So, again, looking at chromophores and different things, there's different lasers for, more specifically probably psoriasis than eczema that can have effects there, and it all boils down to what the underlying causes and what that laser is going to do to target those chromophores, those things underneath, whether it's blood vessels or things like that. Not as commonly used for that, certainly.
Cameron: Yeah. And one of the issues there becomes that lasers are generally not insurance reimbursed. There tend to be like out-of-pocket procedures. And so, when you get into more medical types of treatments for lasers, they're certainly there, but much more of the laser things are going to come in when we're talking about one of the big questions we got like Botox alternatives. What are Botox alternatives? That's where I'm going to direct people more towards lasers where we're going to re-strengthen, restructure your skin, things like that, where Botox is trying to take some of the tension off the skin. If we can just make the skin stronger at baseline using lasers, we can kind of–there's your Botox hack, there's your alternative to Botox, or something like that.
Ben: Speaking of the acne and nutrition piece, how often do you find yourself talking with a client who's struggling with, say, like hair loss or gray hair about inflammatory components in their diet or their adequate amounts of amino acid consumption or anything like that? Do you find yourself having those conversations?
Cameron: Yeah. Generally, we take a little bit more of a comprehensive approach. It's usually a multi-provider for us here where we'll have somebody who's a little bit more focusing on a lot of that systemic part of it. I tend to be more of the end of the road, like, okay, now we need to be doing something physical about this or something to regenerative about it to target it. So, at that point, usually we've exercised all those other options.
Ben: Right. So, you're assuming they've already been through the funnel by the time they've walked in here unless they're holding a bag of McDonald's dripping with grease?
Cameron: Right, exactly. Then there's a better place to point them to go.
Ben: Right. Okay, got it. So, I sent you over a study I think last evening because it just came across my desk. I knew it was coming in here. We kind of sort of addressed the idea that most of these topicals are somewhat ineffective as far as the popular like food for your face type of compounds and formulas that are sold out there. And I don't even know if you had a chance to read the full paper. I couldn't find the full paper in time, but it's the abstract and it was a six-month randomized control trial with 62 men who had AGAs. That's androgenetic alopecia, the hair loss due to the hormone issues that we talked about in Part 1 of this podcast. And said they applied a topical foam that had nicotinic acid polyphenols. It looks like a couple of the ones from green tea like EGCG and a quercetin-based polyphenol.
So, basically like green tea and quercetin, zinc, glycine, and caffeine, and they did that twice a day. And then, there was also a control group, and they were looking at the telogen rate, the proportion of hair in the telogen phase, which was the resting phase that comes before the hair loss phase. We also talked a lot about that on the last podcast. And so, they saw that that telogen rate, I guess it would have–
Ben: Decreased, right, if that comes before the hair loss phase.
Cameron: And they don't explicitly say, but that would imply that more of the hairs are into the growth phase.
Ben: And then, they said a secondary outcome was hair density. What do you think about that? You think that there's something too that's smearing stuff in your hair?
Cameron: Yeah. And this is like–
Ben: Or could it have been what we talked about in the last podcast, scalp massage occurs twice a day when you're using anything like this?
Cameron: If you look at the active ingredients here, it's worth mentioning that the placebo, the foam itself did have some rate of telogen reduction itself. So, there's that. So, that could argue for what you're talking about with just manual massage. But if you look at everything in here, you've got niacin, you've got caffeine. And so, things that are vasoactive, basically, right?
Ben: Like vasodilatory, they're going to assist with blood flow possibly?
Cameron: Exactly. You got polyphenols that are anti-inflammatory. So, you have all the ingredients we talked about last time that could have effects that are going to positively grow your hair, if you will. Take it out of resting phase, take it into growing phase. The thing that this paper doesn't really talk about is to what degree of change did we really get. And that's where I think I had–
Ben: At least in the abstract, it doesn't say.
Cameron: Right, yeah. That's what I mentioned maybe before, which is a lot of things topically can have effects and it may be like a 5% improvement. And that's real, that's a thing, but is that enough for what most people are after, is the question a lot of times. And so, you can start mixing and matching your topicals and seeing if you can get some synergy between them. And we talked about that a little bit last time as well, ways to do that. But I'm never surprised to see these because it's like, yeah, it makes sense that this is going to cause some change, but what is that going to equate to clinically for people who are seeking hair loss? Because by the time we're usually going after something that has to do with increasing our hair density, we're well past 5% reduced. We're usually like 50% plus reduced and we're just starting to notice it, and then we got a little bit of an uphill battle to go.
Ben: Okay, got it. I wanted to ask you just while I have you as a captive audience here, in terms of protocols that a lot of people may not know about, or the sexy stuff that folks are up to in Hollywood right now that people might be hearing about a few months from now, is there anything coming down the pipeline in the beauty or the anti-aging industry that you think is super interesting?
Cameron: Yeah. This is my jam. This is my world. That's [00:40:21] _____ down in the Hollywood area, in L.A., UCLA. This is I think hits a lot of the questions probably that we got from listeners last time, which were I would say the main parts of the question were filler and Botox alternatives, right? We talked about Botox a little bit and alternatives for that being like, okay, if we don't want to weaken those muscles, let's strengthen our skin. So, really great options with lasers. Lasers can physically reduce or erase wrinkles that are already there. So, in the Hollywood world, lasers are very, very, very popular because they are very high-yield and very natural. You're not going to ever make somebody look different.
And then, you get into fillers. And we talked about this, but didn't really touch on it. This is a deep subject of fillers are volume replacers. We lose volume in our face as we age, and our volume sinks and descends, and all creeps downwards vertically. And we know that if we think of somebody who looks a little bit older, like, okay, yeah, all their volume's depleted. And so, fillers have been an option to go replace some of that volume, and they're very powerful, and they work very well. They're hyaluronic acid gel, which is something that's a normal part of our skin that the structure of hyaluronic acid is the same across all species. And so, you can make these gels by cross-linking them to have different properties. And those can mimic bone, or fat, or whatever we want them to mimic, and we can use them to replace volume. They work well. They're temporary. Eventually, we break them down. We have an enzyme in our body called hyaluronidase that breaks it down, and they're a temporary solution for volume restoration.
Ben: And how are they delivered? Is this like an injection similar to Botox?
Cameron: Yup, an injection. But they're usually targeting, like I said, deeper things like fat pads, bone, things like that.
Ben: So, if you see like HLA injection, hyaluronic acid injection, that's what that is and that actually works?
Cameron: So, they work well. They're temporary and they have a little bit of an inflammatory part of them because they get dissolved. So, we know that they stimulate some inflammation. And so, they work great, but a lot of people are trying to avoid them because it's like this thing that comes out of syringe that's not from them. And so, another option there is like, okay, what's a volume restoration option that is not coming out of a box? And that's where things like using your own fat or fat transfer come in as a really great volume restoration transfer. And that's where–
Ben: I'm guessing what that is.
Cameron: Yup. We're borrowing fat from somewhere else. Generally, around your belly button we call the periumbilical area, or your flanks, or your thighs.
Ben: You use the liposuction wand for this?
Cameron: Yes, a teeny tiny little white liposuction wand, and we harvest it very, very gently because we want those cells to be intact. And then, we process them through centrifugation, and we can get different types of fat. We can get smaller, larger, more stem cell dense, whatever we're after there, and we use that to, same thing, replace basically where we've lost fat. We can use your own fat to replace–
Ben: Plus, you can get liposuction now at the same time.
Ben: Do people actually do that? They do it two for two?
Cameron: Sure, but in general, we're not doing it for body contouring. We're doing it just to harvest a little bit, yeah. That is a really great volume restoration alternative because once those adipocytes, those fat cells set up shop, they establish a blood supply on your face, they are now there long term. They become part of your native facial structure. And via this paracrine effect and the way that they communicate with one another by releasing these growth factors and growth signaling molecules is that you also get this nice benefit to your skin surrounding fat pads. We're constantly being bathed in this. So, I'll see people two years after their fat transfer. If we don't do anything else, they're like, man, your skin just looks amazing, because they're getting this–
Ben: Yeah. Skin looks like a baby's butt. There's a reason why.
Cameron: And so, people now have hacked that a little bit to like, okay, well, I want that part of it without maybe the volume. And so, this is getting back around to your question of like coming down the pipeline. We call that more like nano fat where we really, really process for that dense stem cell portion. We're not doing a bunch of volume restoration, but we're using your own fat to give a little bit of restructuring to the underside of your skin and bathe your skin in those long-term growth factors that have a really great glowing effect. Very much a Hollywood treatment.
Ben: Wow. Those folks in Hollywood. They have a lot of stuff.
Ben: Any technologies like biohacks or even like home use equipment that you think is going to really take off? Or stuff you'd see in a medical clinic like this.
Cameron: Right, yeah. And so, this is where you get into these ideas. One of the really popular things–so lasers have been around for a while, and they're expensive, and they're onerous to operate and they have risk to your eyes and things like that. So, you got to have somebody who knows what they're doing and running them. So, there's constantly been a hunt for, okay, well, what else can we do this simpler, if you will, that we can put in a medi-spa or something like that? We've seen the evolution of these devices that do like radiofrequency or radiofrequency microneedling.
So, instead of using light-based energy, they're using radar frequency energy to basically with the radiofrequency microneedling. That's a really popular one. Needles go under your skin in some sort of a pattern, and then radiofrequency energy comes out the tip of those needles and causes heat. So, because at a baseline level, lasers also just use heat. They just use heat in very, very focal targeted locations. And radio frequency is a little bit more of like a blanket type of heat, but you can put needles under the skin, create heat. And with that, at various densities, we can change the way that collagen and elastin, those key elements of our skin structure, we can change the way that they react and cause them to grow a little bit with those radiofrequency microneedling devices.
Ben: It reminds me of the type of acupuncture where I believe they actually electrocute the needle when it's in there.
Cameron: Yup, same idea.
Ben: It's interesting.
Cameron: Really interesting because you can get a deeper delivery of that, and that's usually more targeting like muscular structure and things like that, but same idea. And then, the other really popular and sexy sounding ones are these plasma devices, plasma pads. So, like using helium plasma. And as I like to joke around with my four-year-old son, plasma being the fourth state of matter. As they're learning about solids, liquids, and gases, I tease these reps or whoever are working with these plasma devices like, it doesn't matter which state of matter is creating heat, and they're all just, like I said, using heat in some capacity. So, these plasma pens are great.
Ben: That's the joke you tell your kid?
Cameron: Well, no, no, no. I was teaching–
Ben: I was like, interesting father, geez. My dad told me his jokes never got him.
Cameron: Yeah, teaching my kid the fourth state of matter being plasma, which his first-grade teacher then argued with him about, which is funny that there was no fourth state matter. But with these reps, there's this plasma sounds so sexy. Oh, it's a plasma pen. It doesn't matter what it is. It's delivering heat energy. And so, it's a topical way of delivering heat, basically.
Ben: So, this would have a vasodilatory effect, almost similar concept to smearing like caffeine and kerosene–
Cameron: It's more like a frank heat destruction type of thing.
Ben: Oh, really?
Cameron: These plasma pens, yeah, they can be ablative to the surface of the skin.
Ben: Like the cool one does the fat. This is also doing that to skin?
Cameron: Right. And like I said, everything is using heat really on the skin surface or underneath the skin, whatever we're targeting to cause whatever effect we're at. And so, some of the radiofrequency devices that I use for tightening skin, the holy grail, if we had a device that could just tighten up all of our loose skin, it'd be a miracle. And we have things that are decent at it, but nothing's perfect. And with those, I'm using a radiofrequency tip under the skin, say, and I'm using a thermal camera on the surface of the skin, and I'm looking at the gradient of temperatures between those things and it's big math equation of figuring out what temperature are we hitting with our targets, collagen, and elastin, to cause them to contract, to remodel, to get stronger, more resilient, more elastic, tighter skin. And again, heat, heat, heat. It's all heat, doesn't matter what source it's coming from. It's what degree you're heating it to and what targets you're hitting.
Ben: Alright. So, those are plasma pens.
Cameron: So, plasma pens are of surface treatment. Like I said, they've evolved into this very user-friendly, anybody can operate, type of option. That sounds really sexy, so it's good marketing. But like I'm saying, it doesn't matter, it's just heat.
Ben: Okay. And you guys have a better way of delivering heat in a more thorough fashion in a medical clinic, or would you use a plasma pen?
Cameron: I'd say more specific way that we can, whatever we're after, we can hit it directly.
Ben: Okay. But we need someone to develop some device, full-body device that will both cause tightening and increased elasticity, and that's what doesn't exist yet?
Cameron: That would be the dream.
Ben: Okay. So, I don't know if that's going to happen, but what you could do is you could get like Elon Musk to tweet out that tight elastic skin is not a thing anymore. And we have new definitions of beauty, and you want loose skin. That's how I get rid of issues.
Cameron: Yeah. Think that'd work?
Ben: Yeah. Just tweet and change society.
Cameron: Elon's a thought leader in the beauty world now.
Ben: Yeah. Well, let's see. Anything else you want to mention before we tell people about your clinic and where to find you?
Cameron: Yeah. I think those were the biggest questions we had were really those filler Botox alternatives.
Ben: Smear honey on your face.
Cameron: Yes, smear honey on your face. There's a lot of questions. I think the last topic was about the difference between non-invasive, non-surgical, minimally invasive options.
Ben: The cold pool.
Cameron: And defining those things what those mean. I would assume something like non-invasive means you're not getting poked, you're not bleeding, nothing's happening like that versus–
Ben: Yes, no sharp objects.
Cameron: Yeah, something non-surgical, which would be like fat transfer, very, very non-surgical, no cutting, no sewing, no stitches, no anything like that, but you're getting a little cannula put under your skin to harvest fat out of there. So, probably a really good example of something non-surgical. Then minimally invasive, this is my surgical world that I live in. Everything I do surgically is very, very targeted in the sense of multiple small procedures put together to have a global effect, but each one of those procedures itself are very stealth, very minimally invasive. So, maybe a little bit of cutting and sewing, but on a much smaller scale than we might traditionally think of for a surgical procedure.
Ben: Okay, got it. And just like the dentist's office where you get the stickers and the toothbrushes, popsicles, and vibrators when you walk out.
Cameron: That's what you get on our office.
Cameron: Oh, that's like a little inside thing, not the real story.
Cameron: Okay. So, I was trying to just think of a random name. Honestly, I was thinking like Clinic 34 or Clinic–looking around at random things and I realized that when my dad was a kid, he had five brothers, and they owned a little car dealership down in Moscow, and their car dealership was called The 7 Cees, C-E-E-S. And so, there's seven of the Chesnut kids, and I was like, oh, interesting. So, I was like, well, we have five in our family, three little ones in us. So, that's the back story. Now you know, Clinic 5C.
Ben: [00:51:14] ______. We're stuck. Six, seven. [00:51:19] _____ fertility doc. BenGreenfieldFitness.com/clinic5c is Cameron's clinic here in Spokane. He also does some telemedicine. You can visit his website and get into that with him. And then, the shownotes for our first podcast was BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth, I believe. And for this one, it is BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth2. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/hairgrowth2. And you guys can of course go there and leave your comments, your questions, your feedback, because if my suspicions come true, this isn't the last time I'm going to be in Cameron's clinic. And now, we're establishing a tradition of strapping on the mics afterwards. And so, it could happen again. So, if you leave some good questions, you just might get them answered by the expert himself.
Cameron, thanks again for an amazing show.
Cameron: Yeah. Thanks for coming up. Your face feels better.
Ben: Yeah. Well, we're going to go out to eat again with weird-looking faces to Baba's, Baba's restaurant in Spokane. Baba has met a Mediterranean restaurant. Shout out. Good spot if you're in the area. I'm Ben along with Cameron Chesnut signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week.
Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.
I get a ton of questions about hair growth, grey hair, male and female pattern baldness (alopecia), skin beauty treatments, scar and stretch mark fixes, beauty “biohacks,” and beyond.
So I figured it was high time to get an expert on the show to unpack all of this. His name is Dr. Cameron Chesnut, and he joined me for the first part of this special ongoing beauty, anti-aging, and hair growth podcast series, which you can listen to at The Big Beauty Podcast: Anti-Aging, Hair Growth, Gray Hair, Baldness, Beauty Myths & Beauty Truths, Dermarolling vs. Microneedling, Scars & Stretch Marks, Testosterone, DHT & Much More With Dr. Cameron Chesnut.
Dr. Chesnut (who is also available for telemedicine consults here) and I have quite a history.
We've known each other since way back in our Ironman triathlon competition days, grew up in the same general region of Northern Idaho/Eastern Washington, and have recently reconnected as brothers with similar interests in fitness, health, nutrition, spirituality, biohacking, beauty, and beyond. Dr. Chesnut recently opened a brand-spankin' new biohacking facility in Spokane, WA called “ÔPTIM,” which is a fully comprehensive health optimization practice, combining a revolutionary blend of functional medicine and regenerative modalities in a way that offers you unparalleled wellness. (For 25% off ÔPTIM modalities, go here and use code GREENFIELD.)
Recently at a dinner, Dr. Chesnut was enlightening me on common myths and tips regarding hair growth (based on my recent project of growing out my hair, and potentially, magically sprouting a beard), and also showing me all the other cool toys they have at ÔPTIM, such as hormone optimization, cryotherapy, laser, and other photobiomodulation treatments, platelet-rich plasma (PRP) treatments, hyperbaric oxygen, IV's stem cells, and beyond—so I figured we could geek out on a podcast.
So who is he, exactly?
Dr. Chesnut is recognized worldwide as a key opinion leader and innovator in both minimally invasive and non-surgical cosmetic procedures. He was fellowship-trained in cosmetic surgery, reconstructive plastic surgery, laser surgery, and Mohs micrographic surgery at UCLA, training in the most demanding cosmetic and surgical environments of Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and Los Angeles.
His fellowship at UCLA featured a rigorous, full integration of plastic surgery, facial plastic surgery, oculoplastic surgery, and dermatologic surgery. Through this one-of-a-kind integration, Dr. Chesnut is a well-rounded and cross-pollinated surgeon. He has an unparalleled foundation of knowledge in skin cancer treatment, plastic reconstruction, and cosmetic surgery, as well as laser and aesthetic dermatology.
Dr. Chesnut is an international expert on both the art and science of facial aging, taking an approach that relies not just on surgery but addresses all aspects of aging. He loves to utilize this knowledge and skill of cosmetic surgery to improve the results of his skin cancer patients during their plastic reconstructions.
A leader in the fields of dermatologic and cosmetic surgery, Dr. Chesnut is an internationally acclaimed, award-winning speaker and has been invited by his peers to present throughout the world on numerous cosmetic and reconstructive topics. He is a regular contributor to the surgical literature, continues to author numerous book chapters, and has been recognized for his research and innovation in cosmetic surgery, lasers, and noninvasive treatments.
A native of Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, Dr. Chesnut has returned home to the Inland Northwest. He graduated with Honors from the University of Washington School of Medicine as a member of the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society. He completed his dermatology residency at UCLA where he was selected as the Chief Resident and subsequently was selected for the integrated Procedural Dermatology Fellowship, also at UCLA.
Outside of surgery, Dr. Chesnut enjoys active time with his wife, Aubree, and his children Torin, Tatum, and Callum. He is an avid surfer, passionate skier, loves beach volleyball, tennis, and playing on the river.
During this discussion, you'll discover:
-What Ben and Cameron are having during the podcast…04:26
-The “laser cocktail” protocol Cameron did on Ben…05:40
- Clearlight sauna
- Cameron subjected Ben to a “laser cocktail”
- Used lasers to target various parts of skin
- Targeted pigment and blood vessels in Ben's skin
- Lasers are more powerful than things like red light therapy
- Lasers and red light devices are different, have different effects
- Laser has a fixed wavelength; determined by its medium
- Different lasers have different targets (chromophores) in the skin, be it a pigment, blood vessel, collagen…
- Last laser used creates microthermal zones; creates micropores that the PRP can get into
- Used PRP at the end of the treatment
- Vibrators are used to distract from the pain of injection
- Cryohelmet Ben mentions; does cold therapy on the head, for migraines
- Tranexamic acid is used after laser therapy to reduce redness, inhibit angiogenesis
- Has also been used orally for women with heavy periods
- In cosmetics and surgery, it is mixed with local anesthesia to increase hemostasis (ability to control bleeding)
- Procedures to request at the local clinic:
- PRP for hair restoration
-Why Botox is one of the first great anti-aging biohacks…15:00
- Fillers are different than Botox; common area of confusion
- Botox is one of the first true cosmetic biohacks
- Low-level doses have hormetic benefits
- Changes how our fibroblast reacts
- Upregulates collagen synthesis
- Effects on wound healing
- Has multiple uses in medicine
- Low-level doses have hormetic benefits
- Takes the face and makes it look like in repose
- An injection lasts 3-4 months; a newer product is coming out that lasts a bit longer
- It does not enter the central nervous system (CNS), a big concern, unlike its cousin tetanus
-Whether liposuction is safe…19:35
- Liposuction is manually applying suction to remove fat; falls under the category of bodywork
- Cool sculpting uses freezing to reduce fat
- Popsicle panniculitis is also a means of losing fat
- Cryotherapy is a conversion of fat into brown adipose tissue
- Platelet-rich fibrin (PRF); part of the blood-clotting cascade
- Used in surgeries, in operated areas and at the same time start the healing process
- Holds PRP in
-The devil's drug…23:55
- Accutane (Isotretinoin)
- Has been used for acne; is a vitamin A derivative
- Has evolved from acne medication to become a designer drug for anti-aging
- Orally in small doses (topical until recently)
- Some European soccer teams are using it to protect joint cartilage
- Protects the degradation of type 2 collagen (collagen in cartilage)
- Downsides of using Accutane:
- Drying out the skin
- It's a teratogen so don't use it during pregnancy
- Aggressive treatment for acne uses the photosensitizing drug Perforin to penetrate oil glands before laser treatment
- Red and blue light can also be used in combination with laser cocktails, has much better results
- Blue light's effect on acne is by affecting the bacteria Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes)
- The Dietary Cure for Acne by Loren Cordain
- Hormonal acne: mostly in the chin area, in young people with elevated hormone levels
- Laser therapy on acne is permanent
- There are more lasers for psoriasis than eczema
- Laser therapy in general is out-of-pocket procedures, not insurance reimbursed
-Why most topicals for the face are ineffective…36:40
- Reduction of telogen rate and increase of hair density in androgenetic alopecia by a cosmetic product: Results of a randomized, prospective, vehicle-controlled double-blind study in men
- Placebos have a bit of telogen reduction
-What's hot in the world of beauty and anti-aging…40:02
- Fillers and Botox are alternatives
- “If you do not want to weaken those muscles, let's strengthen the skin”
- Lasers are popular in Hollywood because they don't lose the natural look; high yield and very natural
- Lasers physically reduce or erase wrinkles
- Fillers (hyaluronic acid) work well as volume replacers but is a temporary solution; the enzyme hyaluronidase eventually breaks down Hyaluronic acid
- Fillers are delivered via injection
- Stimulates inflammation so people are avoiding using them
- Fat transfer is a more permanent volume restoration solution
- Borrowing fat from somewhere else; generally from below the belly button, flanks, thighs…
- Simpler ways to do the procedures:
- Radiofrequency (RF) micro-needling uses RF instead of light
- Change the way collagen and elastin (key elements of our skin structure) react
- The same idea as acupuncture with the needles electrified to target the muscular structure
- Radiofrequency (RF) micro-needling uses RF instead of light
- Plasma pens: use helium plasma
- All these devices actually deliver heat energy to targeted areas
- A device that causes both tightening and elasticity is the holy grail in Cameron's field
-The story behind the 5C in Cameron's clinic name…50:30
-And much more!
Resources from this episode:
– Dr. Cameron Chesnut:
- Clinic 5C
- ÔPTIM Clinic – For 25% off ÔPTIM modalities, go here and use code Greenfield.
- Dermarolling vs. Microneedling, Scars & Stretch Marks, Testosterone, DHT & Much More With Dr. Cameron Chesnut.
– Other Resources:
- Kirkland Signature Italian Sparkling Water
- Lucy Nicotine Gum (use code BEN20 to save 20%)
- The Dietary Cure for Acne By Loren Cordain
- Tranexamic Acid
- Accutane (Isotretinoin)
- Hyaluronic Scid
- Fat Transfer
- Gate Control Theory of Pain
- Reduction Of Telogen Rate And Increase Of Hair Density In Adrogenetic Alopecia By A Cosmetic Product: Results Of A Randomized, Prospective, Vehicle-Controlled Double-Blind Study In Men
- Ben will be speaking at the Ancestral Health Symposium in L.A. on August 12-14, 2021
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar
–Kion: My personal playground for new supplement formulations, Kion blends ancestral wisdom with modern science. Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, save 10% off your first order with code BEN10.
–Organifi Red Juice: Enjoy all the benefits of the 11 superfoods and their micronutrients that help increase resting metabolism, support cardiovascular health, and remove toxins to turn back the hands of time! Receive a 20% discount on your entire order when you use discount code BENG20.
–Thrive Market: Organic brands you love, for less. Your favorite organic food and products. Fast and free shipping to your doorstep. Receive a gift card worth up to $20 when you begin a new membership.
–Vuori: Activewear and athletic clothing for ultimate performance. Vuori is built to move and sweat in, yet designed with a West Coast aesthetic that transitions effortlessly into everyday life. Receive 25% off your first order when you use discount code BEN2020.