[Transcript] – Fringe Medicine, Blood Ozone, Water Fasting, Hyperthermia & More: What Does Europe Know About Medicine & Cancer That Americans Don’t?

Affiliate Disclosure


Podcast from:  https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/what-does-europe-know-about-medicine-cancer-that-americans-dont/

[00:00] Introduction/GetKion/Joovv Lights

[06:17] About Robyn Openshaw

[09:17] Why Robyn Spent 3.5 Years Globetrotting the Planet and What She Found

[19:06] Robyn Says That People Naturally Fight Off Cancer by the Immune System

[22:15] How Biological Medicine Works

[32:03] Harry’s/Tryaudiobooks

[37:15] What Robyn Found Out After a 9 Day Water Fast and Why Ben Doesn’t Do It

[47:35] Hyperthermia and Liver Hyperthermia in Battling Cancer

[57:08] The Power of the Blood Ozone Treatment

[1:05:21] How to Get in on a Trip to the Swiss Clinic

[1:10:54] End of Podcast

Ben:  Hey, this is Ben Greenfield.  Let’s begin today’s podcast episode by addressing the elephant in the room; the fact that you’re about to hear my guest, Robyn Openshaw, and I talk about this crazy, fringe, Swiss healing retreat off in the mountains of the Italian quarter of Switzerland.  This amazing eastern medicine and biological medicine Swiss retreat.  Let me tell you right now that after the chat with her in which we allude to be possible travelling over to Europe next year and taking a group of podcast listeners over there with me.  We pulled the trigger on it and actually reserved the place, so if you listen to this podcast episode and you wanna go get in on that, here’s how you do it.  Go to greensmoothiegirl.com/bengreenfield, that’s greensmoothiegirl.com/bengreenfield.  I’m not the green smoothie girl, Robyn is, but I’m the guy who’s gonna be over there in Switzerland shaking your hand when you show up at this health retreat.

We’ll talk more about that in today’s podcast which is, BTW, that means by the way, brought to you, as every podcast episode is by the amazing Kion, K-I-O-N.  Check it out over at getkion.com, we have a brand new coffee.  It is pure, it’s clean, we tested it against over 40 other coffees including some coffees that you may be familiar with as very healthy coffees or coffees that are popular such as Starbucks, Folgers, a whole bunch of other brands, and our coffee through third party independent laboratory testing in Rio and Lisbon and Chicago.  It tested higher in antioxidant levels of all the brands we tested and it was free of all contaminants, totally free of mold, totally free of ochratoxin.  Totally free of yeast, the only three percent of the coffees on the face of the planet are organic.  Ours is organic, yeah.  So you go to getkion.com/coffee, a bunch of discounts over there, check it out, getkion.com/coffee.

This podcast is also brought to you by Joovv, let me flip on my Joovv light.  Flip, and there’s another flip coz I got one in front of me and one behind me.  I am now bathed in the infrared light, the glorious infrared light that is Joovv.  I soak myself with red and near infrared light all throughout the day, I have two of these panels in my office.  One of the folks over at Joovv who they actually studied, Dr. John, told me that he nearly tripled his testosterone levels in less than six months using this strategy, just pulling his pants down and standing in front of it.  But it also works to reduce lactic acid buildup, to improve the health of your skin, collagen and elastin fibers.  One study in the European Journal of Applied Physiology found a more than 50% increase in muscle thickness and peak exercise torque when using this form of light.  A whole host of ways that you can use these Joovv lights whether you’re a male or a female, they’re very cool.  If you want to see what they look like or if you wanna get one, not only do we have a $25 discount code, I believe it’s called BEN25… code is BEN25, but you can also get a small model, big model, max model which is what I have of course.  You go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/joovv, that’s bengreenfieldfitness.com/j-o-o-v-v to snag for yourself one of these bad boys.  Alright, let’s go talk to Robyn, and remember go to greensmoothiegirl.com/bengreenfield if you want to get in on all the goodness that will be at that amazing health retreat next year.  All the dates and everything are over there, check it out, but just so you know it is June 23rd to July 7th, 2019.  I’m gonna shut up and go interview Robyn.

In this episode of the Ben Greenfield Show:

There is a lot of cancer in us on any given day.  If it gets the upper hand and it starts to compromise organ function, that’s where it usually comes to our attention.  And that’s where the way you eat, the way you’re living your life has everything to do with allowing your immune system to stay on top.” “I consider it one of the greatest things I’ve ever discovered in my life and I’m really pleased that we’ve been able to send a lot of sick people there to get well.” “I know a bunch of people who went there with advanced stage cancers who are years past their diagnosis feeling amazing.”

Ben:  Hey folks, it’s Ben Greenfield here, and I think the last time that I was physically in person with today’s podcast guest we were dancing at an ‘80s party, I think… if I remember correctly.

Robyn:  [laughs]

Ben:  Was it an ‘80s party or am I wrong?  Was it ‘60s or ‘70s?

Robyn:  I’m trying to think if I’ve seen you since then but it was definitely an ‘80s party and it was definitely super fun.  And you were like the last guy at the party and I was the last one there too, gotta be dancing.

Ben:  Yeah, you gotta dance the night away.  This was at our friend J.J. Virgin’s Mindshare Summit down in San Diego.  And yeah, we danced and danced and I haven’t seen you since.  I’m glad you survived the evening.

Robyn:  [laughs] There will be many more.

Ben:  [laughs] Well today’s guest, for those of you who don’t know her or don’t recognize her voice, is the great Robyn Openshaw.  She’s also known as the Green Smoothie Girl, so you can just call her the GSG.  Robyn and I, I think we first hit it off because she, like me, is a tennis nerd.  She’s a competitive tennis player who lives down in Utah, and she skis and she’s a mom to four children.  But more impressively, she is a former psychotherapist, a university professor, she’s lectured in over 450 cities in the six years that have gone by since she launched her incredibly popular site GreenSmoothieGirl.  And I actually have green smoothie in my teeth as I say that, I’ve got some spirulina in my teeth, Robyn.

Robyn:  That’s good that you’ve been initiated.

Ben:  Yeah.  I have been very much initiated, I used to do too many greens in my smoothie.  There is such a thing as too many greens in your smoothie, isn’t there?

Robyn:  Yeah, I think it’s hard to do but if anybody could do it, it would probably be you.

Ben:  Yeah, what I find is that the human colon is not like the colon of, say a gorilla in terms of its fermentation capabilities.  And so I got to the point where I was putting, probably the equivalent of a giant Ziploc bag full of dandelion and nettle and mint and kale and parsley, and just any greens I can get my hands on in my morning smoothie.  And inevitably, around 2 or 3’oclock in the afternoon, I was pretty much relegated to the toilet for long periods of time with way too much bulk in my large intestine.

Robyn:  [laughs] Well I’ll tell you, I don’t do all the experiments on myself that you do.  I do some but not anything to hold a candle to the amazing Ben Greenfield, but…

Ben:  Wow.

Robyn:  I try to push it on the greens.  I do a lot of greens, sometimes I drink a whole half-gallon of green smoothie with very little fruit and just superfoods and greens.  But you just listed the most detoxifying greens, so I’m not that surprised.

Ben:  Well what I’ve discovered now is that I just need a pinch, so now I just do bone broth… like a really good, tasty protein, and I’ll put some other things in there like cinnamon and sea salt and stuff, but I do like a pinch of green, like a small, sane handful of any of those rather than kinda going big or going home and winding up wasting my afternoon on the squatty potty.

Robyn:  That does seem like a really bad use of an afternoon.

Ben:  It does, there are so much better things to do like a nap.

Both:  [laughs]

Ben:  Anyways though, you were telling me about something I didn’t know about you.  Everybody talks to you about smoothies, and smoothies are a sexy topic, but let’s face it, a lot of people kinda talk about smoothies.  And I wanted to talk to you instead about the fact that you spent, I believe over three years globetrotting the planet and travelling to over a dozen different natural medical clinics and interviewing a ton of doctors on four different continents on this health quest.  How exactly did that start and what got you into that?

Robyn:  Yeah, it’s a strange story.  Some people bury their head in the sand about cancer because of their family experience and for whatever reason, my own family experience with cancer has made me obsessed with it for 25 years.  And so I sorta think of myself as a cancer researcher as well as going out on the road and… yeah, for three and a half years I went to 19 different clinics coz I wanted to figure out what people do to treat cancer outside of standard of care.  But what happened in my family is that when I was in high school, my grandmother and one of her sons were diagnosed with cancer at the same time.  My uncle was 31 and he was diagnosed with a stage 1 Hodgkin’s, which is actually one of the four types of cancer that standard of care actually does fairly well with.  Like if I personally had cancer even with everything that I know, that’s maybe something that I would consider…

Ben:  When you say standard of care, you mean chemo?

Robyn:  Yeah, I’m talking about my grandmother who was the one who chose the holistic path, called it the cut-burn-poison method, and that sounds really judgmental but that’s how she felt about it.  But you know, you’ve got surgery, you’ve got chemo therapy, and you’ve got radiation.

Ben:  And so Hodgkin’s was what ran in your family?

Robyn:  No, because he’s the only one who had it.  He had it at 31 and he chose standard of care, which is how I refer to surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation, which is all they do in standard of care which is what your insurance pays for, medicated medicare pays for which is very much… standard of care medicine is very much influenced by, controlled by, the pharmaceutical industry.  But there are people treating cancer outside of those modalities, and they look at cancer completely differently.  But just to finish the backstory, my uncle diagnosed at 31 with a stage 1, super treatable cancer, went down the road of chemo and radiation at the same time my grandmother was diagnosed in her early 50s with a metastatic melanoma, and now we know that melanoma isn’t really as skin cancer.  Usually it has tentacles all the way to your lungs and your… hers was metastasized to her breasts and her lymphatic system by the time they caught it, and she was told she had a year to live.  And they wanted her to do chemo and radiation, and she said no.  She said no to the chemo and radiation and instead she did the Gerson protocol, she went to Mexico, she stopped eating any animal products or sugar or processed food, she turned orange from all the carrot juice she drank.  And so the point is, I watched my uncle die of chemotherapy and I watched my grandmother live off this weird stuff she did to rebuild her immune system.  And she lived over 20 years, she was there when all four of my babies were born, so…

Ben:  Wow.

Robyn:  It just influenced me.  That’s kinda the answer to your question is watching what my family went through, I have been sort of insanely preoccupied with cancer and what’s exactly wrong, where do we go wrong, why have we lost the war against cancer, why have we made no gains since Nixon declared war on cancer in 1974, and what are people doing that works out there that is non-toxic and efficacious.

Ben:  So what brought you over to Europe?  Why Europe versus Mexico or Tijuana?

Robyn:  Well, I went to Tijuana.

Ben:  Oh you did?

Robyn:  I went to Tijuana, Ben, and there’s one really world class, beautiful place there and there are other places that are nicer than you would think right across the border.  And I wouldn’t dismiss a clinic just because it’s in Tijuana because a lot of times they are North American doctors who don’t want the persecution of the governing boards who really want everybody only doing chemo, radiation, and surgery.  And so sometimes my old inclination would be to think “if you’re practicing in Mexico and you’re an American doctor, you must have graduated bottom of your class.”  [laughs]

Ben:  Yeah.

Robyn:  But not always the case.  I mean sometimes there are really brilliant doctors who… one of the many doctors I studied with was Thomas Lodi, he’s a Columbia trained MD, and he just got very, very frustrated with the success rate, the unacceptable level of toxicity… I mean I think there was like 40% rate of leukemia after chemo.  If you live long enough, you’re gonna eventually have a secondary leukemia or other cancer from the treatment, not the disease, so there are plenty of really good, sophisticated, outside the box thinkers who wanna treat cancer differently.  And it really comes down to how they see cancer, and here’s the fundamental difference, if I can be really grossly over simplistic here, is that standard of care medicine sees cancer as an invader, something to be destroyed, and you see people every single day on Facebook or wherever you are, you see people talking about their fight against cancer.

Ben:  Right.

Robyn:  That’s not how a holistic or, in Europe, to go to your question about why Europe, that’s not how the foundations of biological medicine, which is rooted in European traditions and thought.  That’s not how they see cancer, and the two things that I found that all of these clinics worldwide, the good ones, and I’m not saying that all these clinics were good ones, just because somebody hangs out a shingle and says “hey, I’m a functional practitioner, I’m a holistic practitioner, I’m a biological medicine doc” does not mean I would send my own child there or my own parent there.  There’s plenty of bad medicine being practiced within those worlds too, but in Europe there hasn’t been this huge divide where a medical doctor is going to face a lot of censure from his peers, criticisms from his colleagues, loss of license.  They kinda cross those boundaries more fluidly, and so I think it has created a climate of more willingness, openness to cross the lines and take a look at what else is out there.  And the two things that all these clinics had in common, Ben, is that first of all they see cancer as a fundamental failure of the immune system.

Ben:  The immune system?

Robyn:  Yes.

Ben:  Okay.

Robyn:  Because your body’s metabolizing cancer cells every day.  The average human being’s producing 50,000 cancer cells a day and your immune system is gobbling them up and metabolizing them, breaking them down, eliminating them as waste every single day.  And so one thing that was fascinating to me in my really extensive research, which for that three and a half years, I took it way beyond the boundaries of reading and reading and reading, is that a lot of these practitioners will tell you that cancer’s been growing for probably about eight years on average before it’s detectable, before it’s developed itself into a mass where there’s a vascular system and where it’s feeding itself and is detectable by our methods and would be… now it’s getting closer to being a crisis situation which you could actually make the argument of “hey, when an oncologist tells you you have cancer and wants you on chemo on Monday, let’s take a breath here.”  Because so many people, so many people in my travels and people who constantly contact me because I’ve blogged over 200 times…


Robyn:On my cancer research.  They’ll contact me and they’ll be like “they want me in there, having surgery in two days” and then interesting things happen coz they’re in the fear machine.  The oncologist’s office is a fear machine like nothing I’ve really ever experienced, and I’ve not been a cancer patient but just from watching it up close and personal for a number of people and hearing about it and asking a lot of questions and interviewing hundreds of people now, it’s a thing.  And many, many people have come to me and said “I really wish that I had not done that, I really wish that I had explored other options first, now I understand what those other options are and why they can be really highly efficacious.”  So you have some time, like if this cancer has been growing for an average of eight years, and another statistic that they told me, a number of these doctors told me, is that the average person probably has a detectable cancer mass four times in a lifetime.  And the body does its work, the body metabolizes it.

Ben:  How do they know that, do they detect it and then see it go away or… how can they make a claim like that?

Robyn:  It’s pretty theoretical and I certainly can’t prove it, and I’ve for sure asked them those questions and I’ll cite various data points, but one of them is there’s an interesting study that a couple of these doctors told me about where autopsy patients from car accidents were cut open and 40% of the females, and I’m talking about females under 40 who died in car accidents, 40% of them had detectable breast cancer.

Ben:  Wow.

Robyn:  And there’s lots of other data points out there and people have made this case better than I’m gonna be able to right here on the fly, of pointing to that.

Ben:  So to interrupt, basically that means a whole bunch of us could have cancer but be asymptomatic or be in a situation where the body’s natural immune system is fighting it off, we don’t know about it and it just goes away on its own?

Robyn:  Right.  That’s exactly right, and cancer is actually part of us, and so part of the shift of thinking the functional doctors here in the U.S., the good ones, the ones who have deep, deep knowledge especially about cancer, and biological medicine docs in Europe, because my favorite of the clinics that I found, and you can share with your audience my favorite of those 19 clinics because you probably get asked like I do, “hey, my mom has cancer, where would you send her?”  And that’s what sent me on this quest is… with the traffic we have on my blog and people following my cancer research, they wanna know where to go and it’s like a serious question.  You don’t wanna… some people are taking out a second mortgage on their house, spending everything they have as a hail Mary when medicine writes them off when they’ve been through three rounds of chemo and they’re like “now what?” or if a person is diagnosed with cancer or other… I mean they do really, really, really well at this Swiss clinic with neurodegenerative diseases.  They do really well with diseases like ALS, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s… even functional medicine in the U.S. is really stymied by… you know, there is a lot of cancer in us on any given day.  If it gets the upper hand it starts to compromise organ function, that’s where it usually comes to our attention.  And that’s where the way you eat, the way you’re living your life has everything to deal with allowing your immune system to stay on top, not overtaxing it on a regular basis with toxicity, with overworking, with not managing our stress, with eating crappy GMO foods, with overeating animal products and undereating plant foods.  All these things, they all have an impact but bottom line is a biological medicine doctor in Europe.

Ben:  Biological medicine is what you call it?

Robyn:  Yup, that’s sort of how they organize themselves whereas the last ten years, American doctors have really been, as you know, organizing around this concept of functional medicine.  Very, very similar movements, they see cancer as a failure of the immune system, and the other thing that I saw that all 19 of these clinics had in common, they didn’t all exactly have the same treatments and same approaches exactly but they all worked to rehabilitate the broken immune system and they all worked to identify the crises or toxicity that likely led to the cancer, identifying it, and then detoxifying the person from whatever their big exposure was.

Ben:  Hmm, okay so biological medicine, just to backpedal a minute, and then I wanna ask you about this idea of cancer being an immune-based issue coz we haven’t really delved into that too much on the show before.  Biological medicine versus functional medicine, is it actually different?

Robyn:  It’s actually pretty political, but biological medicine predates the whole functional medicine movement.  I mean what we’re seeing here in the U.S., they’re using that word more is “okay, let’s all get together, all those of us who don’t really wanna be stuck in standard of care, billing the insurance codes, overprescribing the drugs, pretending the drugs are ever gonna make anybody healthy or make anybody well or make anybody call.”  Those guys are all coming together and they’re like “what can we all agree on? Holistic wasn’t really working” and so functional medicine is what Americans are calling it.  But biological medicine in Europe foundationally honors the whole organism, does not dissect the organism to its parts and treat each organ system differently.  It’s the same concept basically which is “let’s look at the whole organism and the whole upstream/downstream, psychic stress, the whole organism that is physical, emotional, spiritual, and all those things impact each other.”

Ben:  So in terms of the treatment that you would get at a biological medicine clinic.  I wanna dive into those, but first, as I know you’re aware of, Robyn, a lot of people in the health industry right now are discussing this concept presented by Dr. Thomas Seyfried for example, of cancer being a mitochondrial disease, an issue of the cell going into rampant glycolysis, producing lots of lactic acid and essentially being shut off from normal, aerobic metabolism due to deficient mitochondria.  Is the immune hypothesis for cancer that you’re presenting here similar to that?  Is it another name for it or is this something completely different?

Robyn:  Well they’re all part and parcel, right?  What’s going on in the mitochondria is like the genesis of it all, it’s where it all starts, and so that is all a fascinating part of how I think we will move forward.  On multiple continents, Dr. Thomas Rau, probably the most famous of the biological medicine doctors over in Europe, he was the founder of the two Swiss clinics called Paracelsus.  I really like one of them, he’s actually sold both clinics.  The one I have grown very, very attached to and go to every summer for three weeks and take people there and send any sick person I know including those close to me there.  He’s the founder of them and the one in the south has a remarkable story, make sure you ask me about it because I actually think it’s like the 8th wonder of the world.

Ben:  Oh wow.

Robyn:  And I have sent people… it was complete undiscovered by Americans, it was literally one of the most exciting finds of my life.  And I think Greensmoothiegirl has four patients right there right now having an amazing experience and writing us about it.  We follow up with them, we learn the experience they’re having, but biological medicine has a lot of different treatments and a lot of different theories, but mitochondrial dysfunction is one of them.  And it is not one thing, you know?  You’ve got the guys out there saying it’s all mold, you’ve got guys out there saying it’s all bacteria, you’ve got the guys out there who are saying you just need to take 200 enzyme pills a day and it can all be very overwhelming and very confusing.

Ben:  Yeah, I think the way that I would think about the immune system and cancer the way you’re talking about it is… I read an article about this, it was a while back in Scientific America where they talked about how when a cell is faced with an environmental threat like radiation for example, that the cell reverts into a safe mode, a pre-programmed safe mode.  And when that happens, the cells go into some type of metabolism in which they’re burning more sugar as energy, in which they’re unable to engage in normal beta-oxidation and they kinda go into glycolysis and lactic acid production.  But the initial impetus for them to do that is some type of immune system assailant, so it sounds to me like in terms of the immune system, basically what it is is the immune system kind of starts things off and then in a situation where the mitochondria is unhealthy or more vulnerable, at that point the cancer is able to grow.

Robyn:  Yeah, there’s that.  There’s also the discovery of… and you know radiation is, one of the reasons it’s so terrifying is that once the burning treatment is done, there’s healthy cells that are burning and burning for years after that treatment which is of course mutating cells which is actually causing cancer.  And so that’s a really problematic strategy in general to burn the crap out of the cancer, and I kinda understand where it came from and what that idea is, but to me, when we have the ability to then heal the body and your oncologist isn’t gonna give you anything to heal the body.  I mean they’ll send you home with a can of Ensure, but they have absolutely no training in rehab-ing immune function.  But you also Ben, at the cellular level have the discoveries of Otto Warburg where processed sugars are gonna feed cancer.

Ben:  Right.

Robyn:  And medicine doesn’t train people in that, they don’t train their patients “hey, how about don’t eat any processed sugar?” but they know it.  They know it because that’s how they light up a PET scan.

Ben:  Mmhmm.

Robyn:  That sugar injection and dye, well the dye and the sugar goes right to the spots where the dye is in the PET scan because a cancer cell has I think 18 insulin receptors and so it gobbles up sugar and causes more growth of cancer than it does of normal cells.

Ben:  Right, which is why some type of ketotic approach combined with something like hyperbaric oxygen chamber therapy where you’re presenting the cell with enough oxygen to where it doesn’t need to engage in rampant, anaerobic glycolysis, produce a lot of lactic acid.  It instead does not have sugar to fuel that state, it has to rely upon ketones and is giving a high oxygen state.  And actually, this is kinda fascinating, and then I know we’re kinda going down a rabbit hole here and what I really wanna go into is some of the fascinating treatments you did at this biological medicine clinic yourself and that you sent people to do, but the idea here that I was talking about with the guy who’s the CEO of Quest.  He and I happened to be at a dinner a couple of nights ago and he was explaining how not only is a lack of oxygen one of the things that can contribute to the proliferation of cancer, but in fact it’s also a lack of what we deem, in many cases, metabolic waste, carbon dioxide.  And the idea is that when you have high levels of carbon dioxide simultaneous to high levels of oxygen, there’s thing called the Bohr curve.

Normally oxygen isn’t gonna let go of the red blood cell very readily unless there’s a lot of carbon dioxide present.  And so some of the things that would increase carbon dioxide and allow oxygen to saturate tissue more readily would be things like deep nasal breathing, mouth taping, there are different forms of exercise with oxygen therapy, hyperbaric might enhance this effect a little bit from the oxygen standpoint.  But it’s very fascinating, I’m actually doing some research on this right now and I’m planning on either interviewing Rhon or doing a podcast on it in the future.  But the idea is that you maintain both high levels of carbon dioxide and high levels of oxygen and you’re able to keep the cell from going into that glycolytic acid producing state.  So it was a fascinating conversation, it’s kinda hot on my mind right now while I’m talking to you.

Robyn:  Yeah, that is interesting and a lot of the treatments that you’ll find at these clinics practicing outside the box and trying to help people get back on top of the cancer so that their body can do that work, so their body can in many cases metabolize cancerous growths is going to increase oxygenation because cancer can’t live in the presence of oxygen.  So a lot of the treatments really go to that of increasing oxygenation in the blood supply, in the blood, as well as to the organs.

Ben:  Yeah, exactly.  The book he recommended to me was… I gotta find it.  What I’ll do is I’ll find the book and I’ll put it in the show notes.  It’s very similar to Patrick McKeown’s book, “The Oxygen Advantage”, but it’s a little bit more clinical, so I’ll find that book and get it in the show notes for you guys.  Actually, I have it here on a post-it note on my desk: “Normal Breathing: The Key to Vital Health” is the name of this book that he recommended to kinda wrap your head around the oxygen-carbon dioxide issue with cancer.  It’s like a $70 book on Amazon, it’s one of those books where it’s really hard to find but it is one that I’ve already ordered and I’m waiting with baited breath for it to arrive.

[Music Plays]

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[Music Plays]

Ben:  So speaking of waiting with baited breath, Robyn, I wanna know now some of the things that you did at this… particularly I think it was a clinic in Switzerland, right?

Robyn:  Yeah, the one in Switzerland that sort of was this miraculous find because there was literally no English about it on the internet when I found it whenever this was… I wanna say 8 years ago?  But just side note to your point, there’s a lot of different ways to oxygenate, and I just told you that I don’t do these hardcore experiments like you do so I’m gonna make a liar out of myself, but Saturday I fly to this [0:35:43] ______ in Texas.  This is related to what you asked, and it’s all related to what I learned about cancer.  And Thomas Lodi, who’s the Columbia-trained MD I told you about who had a clinic in Arizona, and he’s recently retired now and left the country, but he taught me this and gave me a whole bibliography but I am getting on a plane Saturday and I’m gonna do my fourth long term water fast, first one in the last two years.  And nine days of no eating, just water, and please don’t do this at home, please don’t hear what I’m saying and think that you should do a long term water fast because honestly, I think that most people are too sick and too toxic, but I’ve done so many things like this that I’m not super worried about it for me.  But some of these doctors feel that water fasting is one of the most powerful things that you can do against cancer.  And you talk about ketosis, and that’s all the talk right now and that’s all the rage but I’m probably more interested in what else happens when we fast, and that is autophagy.  You know what that is.

Ben:  I do because I just interviewed Naomi Whittel on it and we had a fascinating discussion about protein cycling and intermittent fasting and a host of things that she found in her book “Glow15”, which is all about cellular autophagy.  So yeah, absolutely, there is way more to things than just say ketosis when it comes to normal pre-programmed cell death, so that’s fascinating.  So you’re fasting, you’re doing it as a nine day?

Robyn:  Yeah, and this time I’m doing it for nine days but in the last two years, I’ve done a seven day, another nine day, and a twelve day water fast.  And I actually just interviewed Valter Longo, have you met him yet?

Ben:  No, I’ve read his book but I haven’t met him.

Robyn:  Okay, well I’ll totally introduce you…

Ben:  Oh, I’ll love that.

Robyn:  But I just interviewed him yesterday and I heard him on multiple other podcasts and I just read his book too, and he just talks about how… think of the body as like a wood-burning train where if you’re not gonna get to the next destination, you’re not gonna have the fuel you need so you scavenge broken chairs on the train, you throw them in the fire to get to the next station.  But then when you get to the next station, that’s the cool thing about fasting that people don’t think about is when you get to the station, then you rebuild the chairs that are now missing on the train.  And so it’s partly in the re-feeding after fasting that’s so powerful for cancer because when we stop eating, and that’s why water fasting is one of the most powerful anti-cancer preventative things you can do, maybe the most powerful thing you could do, is that when your body’s not putting 65% of its energy into metabolism, it can then go after aberrant cells and growths.  And it goes after them with a vengeance, and people are like “oh no, it’s gonna break down my muscles, I’m gonna lose muscle mass.”  Well actually, you’re gonna do a little bit of breaking down of muscle, you’re gonna actually lose more belly fat than muscle because it’s gonna go after unneeded fat deposits, but it’s gonna go after aberrant growths.

Ben:  Right, and there’s actually some indication, and this is in Naomi’s book that a certain amount of protein restriction, a certain amount of fasting may actually, in a very ironic way, increase muscle protein synthesis.  And I remember seeing a study, I think it was at University of California way back in 2008, where… way back, it was so long ago in 2008… where they restricted calories to as low as 800 calories, and in the presence of weight training, people still gained muscle.  So it’s kind of interesting how good the body does at staying in an anabolic state or at least a muscle maintenance state even in the absence of calories and high amounts of protein and some of those things we think that the body would need to maintain muscle.  I think it’s fascinating.

Robyn:  It does, and then considered that when you stop fasting, your body is now rebuilding.  Now the changes at station and it’s rebuilding out of  better parts and there’s a lot of… Valter Longo talks in his book, “The Longevity Diet”, about some of his research and others’ research that shows that you can kinda rebuild the pancreas and you can restore function.

Ben:  Right.

Robyn:  There’s lots of enhanced function in the pancreas after doing a fast and the benefits are actually pretty long-term.  So I wanna just mention as a side note that while that isn’t the primary treatment at these clinics of biological medicine, there are some of them who really wanna get a cancer patient on fasting.  And Longo, who also has an oncology and longevity clinic, thinks that fasting while doing chemotherapy is highly protective against many of the toxic effects of the chemo and makes it work better.

Ben:  Yeah, it’s actually one of the things that frustrates me most, and I know I sound like I’ve got a pretty serious first-world problem going on here is racing as a pro athlete and the constant amount of training that I need to be in.  Fasting is very difficult for me in terms of these longer periods of time, 16-18 hours plus, up to 3-5.  You’re doing the nine day, when you see a huge amount of cellular autophagy or you see a lot of the benefits that everyone from traditional culture that implemented long periods of time fasting.  Gandhi to Jesus to all these folks who we know had fasting as a pretty strict part of their spiritual regimen, and we can even argue, their health regimen.  That’s not something that at this point in my life, I’ve taken a deep dive into and I find all the research on it fascinating.  I understand that a lot of my clients do more fasting than I do, but it’s tough for me personally to do the three or the five or the seven day fast at this point in my life, although I recognize the value and I’m probably not as healthy as I could be if I were to actually fast.

I am going to steer this ship in the direction of this Swiss clinic though, because I know from live blood cell analysis to hyperbaric chambers that I mentioned, hyperthermia, nutrient infusions, these things that you get done at biological medicine clinic, I wanna dive into what you did while you were on this quest over in Europe.  And especially the Swiss clinic, Robyn, so can you fill me in?

Robyn:  Yeah, I will.  Most of the clinics that I went to have two types of treatments, and I have become pretty cynical, I actually went out to do this research thinking that I would write a book about what’s working and haven’t written the book, that’s a whole side topic, but a lot… I sorta categorize all the treatments out there and so if you’re out there shopping for where you want to go for treatment for a neurodegenerative disease or cancer or something like that out there outside of standard care medicine, there’s spa treatments and then there’s legitimate detoxifying and immune building treatments.  And so definitely put your critical thinking skills hat on when you’re looking at these places because some of the stuff that they offer out there is kind of like to fill the time between your real treatments.  But I wrote a blog post, and Ben, you can link to it in your show notes of the ten treatments that I wanna see if I’m gonna send my parent or my own child to…

Ben:  This is perfect, this is what I wanna hear.

Robyn:  Yeah, yeah.  And one of them that I really, really like is ozonating the blood.  And at this Swiss clinic that I now take people to every summer, and I spend three weeks there just… I get the needle in my arm, I’m getting the nutrient IVs, that’s one of them, I think that they’re very powerful.  A lot of insurance companies will not pay for vitamin C IVs because they’re so very clearly proven to be anti-cancer, that even standard of care has had to acknowledge it.

Ben:  Hmm.  But not in Europe, right?  They pay for treatments in the U.S.?

Robyn:  I doubt that this clinic… I doubt that European and Mexican clinics will even deal with your insurance company.

Ben:  Right, but they’re cheaper anyways.  It’s like medical tourism, it’s like if I’m gonna get invaginated, I’m gonna go to Thailand coz it’ll cost me a third of the price of changing my sex here in America, should I ever want to go do that.

Robyn:  Right, but please don’t.

Ben:  Yeah, medical tourism [laughs] is huge.  This vitamin C injection though, I just got it done… I just got 100g down in Pocatello, Idaho.  Dr. Jason West’s clinic down there, fascinating clinic where he does like procaine injections and he reset my nervous system, and I sat in an IV bag for a couple of hours.  And I wasn’t aware that this type of high dose vitamin C is used as a cancer treatment, but it sounds like that’s one of the key treatments at the biological medicine place in Switzerland you went to?

Robyn:  Yup, and not just vitamin C.  Jason West is a good friend; he’s my mom’s doctor.

Ben:  Oh, no way.

Robyn:  Yeah.

Ben:  Small world.

Robyn:  Yeah, drives like three hours each direction to go to him but…

Ben:  Yeah.

Robyn:  Yeah, so not just vitamin C but sometimes… so there’s a number of different nutrient infusions that you can get there  and it’s gonna be dependent on the testing you get.  So you’re also getting diagnostics that aren’t really available from your regular physician here in the U.S.  One of them that I really like is the OligoScan, which is gonna tell you the level of your heavy metals systemically; those are serious toxins, highly, highly correlated to cancer risk.  If you’re gonna get that, you should figure out what sort of heavy metals you may build to actually get out what is one of the possible causes of the cancer.

Ben:  What’s an OligoScan?

Robyn:  OligoScan is a non-invasive testing for heavy metals, and when they invested in it three years ago, I was like “whoa, tell me about this.”  I said “did you test this against the gold standard which is urine challenge testing?” and they said “we did and we found the correlation pretty 1:1.”  So now if people go to Switzerland, it’s a European-developed technology that tells you not just the levels of your heavy metals which are bad guys but also the levels of all of your minerals.  And I find that looking at test results, coz they don’t have HIPA laws over there, and so in Switzerland they’ll like show me a lot of patient records if I ask.  And I find that just about everybody is low in zinc, so they usually attack the zinc deficiency that’s a lot of times being pulled out.  They will do heavy metals chelations over there where you sit there with an IV drop, and there are chelator agents in your IV that have an affinity for specific heavy metals that are highly toxic and that we have exposure to through a variety of things, whether its amalgam fillings or lots of pollution or raw sushi that you eat.  So you can do heavy metals chelation there and a variety of things to help fix that imbalance if you have lots of heavy metal toxicity.

Ben:  Huh.  And this OligoScan, just to clarify, is non-invasive?  You’re simply testing with specific points in your body?

Robyn:  Yup.

Ben:  And it’s an electronic scan?

Robyn:  Yup.

Ben:  Wow.  And it identifies minerals, vitamins you’re deficient in, metals, all of that?

Robyn:  Yeah, really powerful and they can give you a 3-4 page printout of your results that gives you really good indication of where you’re at nutritionally, as well as heavy metals.

Ben:  I’ll admit, I’m skeptical but at the same time I interviewed, you know Dr. Wendy Myers who is into energy medicine and had me try this NES scanner, and that thing identified just about every single blood or organ issue that I’ve identified through more allopathic techniques, like going to Quest Labs or LabCor or going to get things palpated by a body work practitioner.  It’s just identified everything that was going on with me to the T.  So I’m skeptical, but at the same time I understand how these things actually work.  So you’ve got an OligoScan, you did like high dose vitamin C injections, what were some of the other things?

Robyn:  Yeah, more like IVs coz you’re gonna be there for an hour or two, and one of those is the diagnostic, one of those is a treatment.  They also have full body hyperthermia where you’re being monitored by rectal thermometer, you have a nurse there giving you fluids, you’re on IV fluids, and you are for several hours brought to an artificial fever up to 102-104 degrees if we’re talking Fahrenheit.  And I do it every single year when I’m there, and it’s not my favorite thing, you’re in a pretty small space but again, people know that their optimized temperature and all the cells in your body are optimized, is it what… I always forget, is it 97 point…

Ben:  98.6.

Robyn:  98.6, thank you.  But the exception to that is your immune cells, your white blood cells and killer T-cells, a lot of your immune cells are optimized at 104 degrees, and so, of course in America when we have a fever we think something’s wrong, we must have a Tylenol deficiency so we nuke it.  But when you are in a fever state, again you are burning out cancer cells and you are burning out bacterial and viral cells.

Ben:  Hyperthermia is fascinating.  I looked into this because I got this thing from Korea called a Biomat that I now use every day, but the literature that came with it claimed that it could kill cancer cells.  And it turns out that on the U.S. government’s website for cancer, cancer.gov, you can actually see hyperthermia listed as a clinically proven method to kill cancer cells and damaged proteins within cancer cells and to shrink tumors.  And I don’t think… I believe that you have to get the body pretty high, like you mentioned.  Like you gotta get, where normally 98.6, way up into the hundreds, and the highest that I’ve gotten just measuring with this Oura ring that I wear for skin temperature is 105 laying on that Biomat.  And you actually have to, if you wanna get true hyperthermia, you have to wrap it… you turn it into almost like a lay-down sauna, you wrap it with these mylar silver blankets.  But I can approximate hyperthermia at home, but it sounds to me like they’re using kinda like that on steroids at this Swiss clinic.

Robyn:  Yeah, I mean you’re infrared sauna is gonna get you some benefits but this is like… they’re cooking you from the inside.  You’re like a turkey, you got a rectal thermometer and your core temperature is really the thing to measure.  And just to give you an idea since we’re bringing up hyperthermia, this was pioneered in Germany and the doctors who run this clinic are actually from Germany, they grew up behind the Berlin wall, didn’t speak English until they were older than 20.  And so they’re very interesting people, but in Germany, hyperthermia is totally within standard of care.  And many research studies come out of the hospitals and the university institutions, it’s very mainstream to use hyperthermia not necessarily instead of chemotherapy but as an adjunctive to it.  I mean Germany’s dishing out the chemo in just as high rates as the U.S. is but as an adjunctive to chemo, which we’re not doing here in the U.S., just as an example of how far behind we are in thinking more biologically.  Hyperthermia is used by regular medical doctors to improve the outcomes and effects of chemotherapy in Europe.

Ben:  Wow.  Okay, so hyperthermia is another one.  Some of this stuff’s fascinating because we can almost, in my opinion, kinda keep cancer at bay so to speak, and this is completely unfounded and unresearched, it’s just a hypothesis of mine by regularly doing things that push our body into some of these zones at lesser amounts.  Like doing a sauna a few times a week or working up a sweat or getting low dose UVA, UVB, near and far infrared from sun, or doing something like I lay in my Biomat when I take a nap every day.  Or when it comes to something like hyperbaric oxygen, exercising and infusing the body with oxygen through exercise, a lot of these things that we do on a daily basis for general health seem to be things that are simply approximated at much higher, more concentrated amounts in a clinic like this.

Robyn:  Well, that’s exactly it.  So you’re doing some sort of home version of these things and that’s why I kinda talk about… like I don’t know if I would put an infrared sauna on these spa treatment side or on the serious clinical intervention side, but hyperbaric oxygen, since you brought that up, this clinic in Switzerland.  I’ve seen a lot of different versions of it and one clinic that will remain unnamed… coz I like to put myself into these treatments and then ask lots of questions and interview all these doctors.  They like, in one American clinic, he withdrew a syringe full of blood from my hip, shook in some ozone, and then injected it back into my hip, and that’s just like, not even close to good enough.  So in the Swiss clinic, about three years ago they got this technology I think is really cool and it probably gets the job done better than anything I’ve seen in terms of hyperbaric oxygen, is that you have a needle in your vein, and you sit there and squeeze the little squeezy ball, and you blood leaves your arm and it goes into a container where they then shake ozone into it.  So ozone being O3, there’s an extra oxygen molecule, ozone is used in hundreds of industrial applications, it’s what lightning creates in the atmosphere, it’s highly cleansing.  So it’s killing pathogens in the blood, then they reverse the direction and the blood goes back into your arm, then it leaves again, shakes some ozone into it again.  There’s a nurse doing this and she does it, in one hour of treatments, very painless.   They are shaking ozone into my blood ten different times and putting it back into my body, and I feel like that seems so much more likely to be clinically effective than the little “hey, bend over and let me take a little bit of blood out of your hip and…”  So I got pretty cynical coz I was in so many places and heard a lot of different claims, and a lot of times these doctors, honestly here’s another thing I really want people to know if they’re thinking “where do I wanna send my dad who’s suffering with something and I want him to go someplace that’s gonna get a lot of great treatment outside of getting nuked with chemicals and burning rays.”  If you stay off site, it makes such a huge difference in a bad way. [laughs]

Ben:  Hmm.

Robyn:  There’s very few places where you stay on site, they’re feeding you a really healing, super clean, organic, great detoxifying diet, and that’s one of the places… one of the things I loved most about this place in the south of Switzerland.  Not only is the facility spectacular but you stay on site.  When a person is sick, these doctors of biological medicine say “hey, don’t send people to us if they’re sick unless they can stay for three weeks.”  And I absolutely agree with that, our mutual friend, I’m sure Tom O’Bryan has a book that’s something like “in three weeks I can work a miracle.”  And the MDs at this clinic in the southern Swiss Alps say the exact same thing, they’re like “give me three weeks and I can really turn around functioning in the body at a cellular level, at an organ level.”  And so, that’s not to make any kind of disease-cure claims, but I feel like people need to be realistic and say “okay, three full weeks of treatment, if you’re really ill, can be powerful and it’s really a minimum.”

Ben:  Tom’s a smart guy.  He has a new book, too, doesn’t he?  A book on autoimmunity or something like that?

Robyn:  Oh yeah, I know he had a docu series out.

Ben:  Yeah, I think it’s something going on and on which might be relevant to this discussion.  I believe it came across my radar this morning, I think Dave Asprey just interviewed him over on the Bulletproof podcast, so I’ll link to that one if you guys wanna learn more about Dr. Tom O’Bryan, but he’s another brilliant guy when it comes to this stuff and a mutual friend of Robyn and I.

Robyn:  He actually is leading three weeks of liver detox retreats right after I do, so I’ve got three sold out retreats.  They’re 1 week of liver detox and I really just let people go there so that more Americans know about this place.  And then Tom has three weeks that he’s leading, all of them are sold out.

Ben:  Wow.

Robyn:  But the good news is if you’re gonna tell people about this place is that you can go for a three week stay any time.

Ben:  So could I put together a group of people to go to Switzerland to do this for three weeks?

Robyn:  I would love to help you go do three back to back weeks of retreat.  I will absolutely 100% help you do that.

Ben:  I would love to put a 2019 trip together to bring folks listening in who wanna do it.  Because I personally, I mentioned Dr. Jason West, and I just went to Salt Lake City and kinda did a little health quest down there where I went to West Clinic and I went to Dr. Craig Buhler’s clinic for manual therapy and then did some umbilical and amniotic stem cell injections at Dr. Regan Archibald’s clinic there.  But in looking over the list of things that you did at this Swiss clinic, this is off the charts compared to that.

Robyn:  Yeah, I’ve seen… every time I talk about this like online or whatever, I’ll get functional doctors piping in and they’ll be like “oh, we do hyperbaric ozone at our clinic” or “oh we have saunas at our clinic.”  I mean there’s hundreds of clinics who have a little of this and a little of that, but part of the problem here, what’s so daunting for these practitioners and this is why the fact that this 24 million dollar facility came into the possession of the mother-daughter medical doctors trained in biological medicine, why I think it’s such a miracle.  I am really motivated for more Americans to know about it because they acquired it for 3 million bucks.  It was built in 1984 dollars for 24 million dollars and they acquired it for 3 million dollars which makes it affordable.

Ben:  Yeah.

Robyn:  Switzerland’s the most expensive country in the world and it was, Ben, it was the best price I found worldwide and the best treatment, and I’m comparing it to four different Tijuana clinics.

Ben:  I wanna ask you about a couple more treatments that you did but what we can do is, Robyn, let’s you and I talk after the show.  What I’d like for any of you listening in to do is just go to the show notes at bengreenfieldfitness.com/greensmoothiegirl, and I really hadn’t planned on this until now but this is very, very interesting to me as a potential for a 2019 adventure I could lead people on over there in Switzerland.  So just leave a comment if you’re interested, if you’re game so to speak, and then what I can do is I can scroll through those comments and kinda reach out to you and contact you if it’s something that we wind up putting together, just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/greensmoothiegirl and I’ll put it all over there.

Robyn:  I’ll tell you that because I’ve been talking about this and showing pictures from this spectacular place… every room that you stay in on site has a view of the Swiss Alps.  You can walk out the front door on the other side of the building and go hiking, and it’s like you’re in…

Ben:  I love stuff like this.

Robyn:  In a movie, plus you’re getting this amazing treatment by some of the most compassionate and knowledgeable doctors I’ve ever know.  But I will tell you right now, Ben, when you go to do this, and I’ll help you like I have a slide show where I show pictures of the place and the treatments that we get and me getting treatments.  Tom sold out his three weeks in two days, so your people really should raise their hand and say “tell me more about this, when you’re gonna do this in 2018.”  Mine sold out in like four days this year, so yeah.

Ben:  Wow, okay.  So when you say sell out, basically all we would have to do is connect with this Swiss clinic and I can send people who, and honestly if you’re listening in just in case I don’t go do the comments thing, just go to my website, subscribe to the newsletter coz once Robyn and I get on the same page, I’ll just send out a newsletter about this and we’ll make it happen.  A lot of things are not hell yes-es for me, but this will be a hell yes after talking to Robyn about this.  Okay, a few other things, Robyn, just because I have some questions, what’s liver hyperthermia?  I saw that you did liver hyperthermia.

Robyn:  Well, hyperthermia is a commitment and it costs extra, doesn’t come with the one week liver detox.  But one of the things that our liver detoxers do get every year is that they can localize heating up the liver, and so they’re using sonic ground technology and the gel which you’re familiar with in many medical applications.  And they can really heat up the liver to help it detoxify, and I think that this is a significant while painless 30-45 minute example of what you’re getting over there if you go a one week liver detox.  And that’s why if you do a retreat over there, which like I said happy-healthy deal, this is the kind of thing that you’ll do that’ll also get professional colonic by a colon hydrotherapist, the coffee enema, that’s a whole other thing, and by the way that’s optional if it freaks you out.

Ben:  Doesn’t freak me out.

Robyn:  But it’s amazing.

Ben:  I did one about three hours ago. [laughs]

Robyn:  Really?

Ben:  Yeah, I do two a week right now.

Robyn:  I don’t have to sell you on it?

Ben:  Yeah.  No, you don’t have to sell much to my audience on it either, they’re pretty accustomed to the idea of sticking tubes up your butt to clean your body up.

Robyn:  Yeah.

Ben:  And I’m a fan of that as well.  As a matter of fact, I was talking about going to Salt Lake City and seeing Dr. Craig Buhler, he palpated my liver and gall bladder and there were some tender points there.  And so immediately, this was three weeks ago, I started doing… I had kinda neglected my coffee enemas a couple of months, I started doing them and already, coz I’ve been palpating that same spot, the tenderness is almost completely gone.  It’s almost like it’s just flushing out the liver and the gall bladder, and I know that those of you that are listening in who are white lab coat-wearing, allopathic, western medical enthusiasts, are raising an eyebrow at this.  But I’m telling you, if you’re skeptical just go stick coffee up your butt and see what happens, use yourself as an n=1.

Robyn:  Yeah, you’re gonna have the massive glutathione production which is gonna be so helpful in cleaning a lot of junk out.

Ben:  Yes.

Robyn:  But you’re also… that caffeine is taken out by the hemorrhoid all day, it’s not going through your digestive tract and it’s opening up liver and kidney, it’s opening bile ducts and you’re just dumping all kinds of stuff out of that liver that filters your whole blood system every four minutes, and you’re able to dump it out so it’s not recirculating.  It’s heading on out of the body and it’s a weird, miraculous thing and just one of many things that we do when we take people for a one week liver detox.  My point in taking people there is that they send their sister-in-law when their sister-in-law gets cancer, they take their child when they’re struggling with heavy metals toxicity issue or whatever.  Americans need to discover this place because they are overpaying for shitty care.

Ben:  Yeah.

Robyn:  In North America, hate to say it, and South and Central America.

Ben:  Right, right, exactly.  Although you are kinda getting shitty care over there if you include the coffee enemas, it is a form of shitty care.

Robyn:  Ha-ha.

Ben:  One other question about the treatments, neural therapy.  What’s neural therapy?

Robyn:  Well, Dr. Petra Wiechel is the mother, the daughter is an internist and it will be her heir parent… they live on site and a lot of her genius is neural therapy.  She’s using needles, I can’t… I think it’s about a 25-30 year old science, again pioneered in Europe, highly unusual in the U.S. even in functional medicine.  But I have taken two different people there who have lifelong back or nerve pain, and she takes them in and does whatever she does with her needles and their jaw was on the floor and they’re pain-free, these two different gentlemen for the first time in years or decades.  And it’s not that neural therapy’s gonna miraculously solve everything but it involves the energy meridians of the body and she… like I said, she isn’t looking at disease the same way an allopathic doctor is even though she is a medical doctor and she has all that training.  She is also a genius at live blood microscopy, and you are gonna see one drop of blood under a high powered microscope that tells you… I’m sure you’ve had this done.

Ben:  I have.

Robyn:  Mind-blowing what she can tell you about the state of your overall systemic health and disease risk from one drop of your blood.

Ben:  It’s pretty fascinating.  As a matter of fact, I had that done recently and there were little clusters of candida in my bloodstream or what were called ghost cells, and occasions that I might, and this is related to the liver and the gall bladder, have some amount of fat malabsorption that is limiting my ability to create cell membranes properly.  I also had, if you look very closely at some of the cell walls, like almost cracks like a dry desert indicating some phosphorus and mineral deficiencies.  There’s a host of data you can get from these red blood cell analyses that again the allopathic medicine frowns upon.  But once you delve into the research, it’s pretty incredible as far as how much research there is especially in Europe and in some of these biological medicine sectors on this stuff.  So you can pretty much just go there and do the full meal deal, everything that we just talked about this Swiss clinic.

Robyn:  Well not only that, but you’re staying on site, there’s Michelin-rated chef who has worked there for 18 years who’s serving you three multi-course meals.  Some of them are multi-course meals, beautifully plated and it’s all organic, detox food.  I mean I took ‘em a Blendtech, had to get one that was made for Europe and I was like “alright, I want more green smoothies here.”  But besides that, they have like a gluten-free, of course or Tom wouldn’t be there, whole foods, mostly plant-based, it’s the Coy diet which is known for biological medicine the U.S. hasn’t seen yet but I think you would approve.  And they are dead serious about it being an EMF-free zone, can’t take your cellphone or tablet to any of the treatment areas.  You can have it in your room, that’s it.

Ben:  Mmhmm.

Robyn:  But it is an incredible healing zone and lots of great treatments, lots of great care and incredible climate of healing.

Ben:  Wow.

Robyn:  But go there for… if you know someone who is very ill, help spread the word that this is a find, this is a real jewel.  I consider it one of the greatest things I’ve ever discovered in my life and I’m really pleased that we’ve been able to send a lot of sick people there to get well.  I know this is not a claim, this is not a prediction but I know a bunch of people who went there with advanced stage cancers who were out doing 10Ks, and years past their diagnosis feeling amazing.  And so it’s a great place to go for significant illness.

Ben:  Wow.  My mind is blown, I really, really, truly wanna go and check this place out, and obviously it being in Switzerland makes it all the more appealing.  So what I’m gonna do, for everybody listening in, go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/greensmoothiegirl.  I’m gonna put a lot of the therapies that Robyn and I talked about along with a lot of the books that kinda came up like the one Rhon Pena recommended to me on oxygen and also Naomi Whittel’s book on cellular autophagy.  And also what I’ll do for you is I’ve got about twelve other podcasts that I have done on cancer.  I will link to all those for you on the show notes if you are personally on a cancer quest.

For me, my purposes for going to a clinic like this is to go from good to great, to just feel amazing coz like I mentioned, when I go to a clinic like West’s and Buhler’s in Salt Lake City, it felt great, they fixed my back completely with prolozone and things like this neural therapy and procaine injections, B12, some adjustments, it’s pretty amazing.  And I’ll put all that over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/greensmoothiegirl, near the resources section, I’ll put a place where you could sign up to my newsletter if you wanna stay tuned for the actual date when Robyn and I plan this, coz I’m serious, I’m a man of my word and I will put something together with Robyn for 2019.  And then the other thing is if you leave a comment over there, you can ask Robyn and I a question but you can also just comment and say “hey, I’m game, I wanna go” and I’ll start to get some folks together and create a list of people who are interested for sure once I launch this thing.  Robyn, this is super fascinating, thanks for opening our eyes to this stuff and coming on the show.

Robyn:  Oh it’s my pleasure and I would be really excited if you took some of your followers over there coz they’ll get some good Ben time and they’ll get to pick your brains coz you’ll eat three meals together and you’ll go on the most spectacular hikes in the morning.  The husband of the older doctor there will take you on some unbelievable hikes which I know you’ll totally jam on, but you too.  Even though you’ll be there with your peeps, you will actually have a lot of R&R, I mean you leave your room, you go up to one of the treatment rooms and you go back to your room, chill out and look at the alps and read a book.  It’s a really, really lovely experience.  I’d be excited if you went.

Ben:  Wow, me and all my buddies can do coffee enemas side by side.

Robyn:  [laughs]

Ben:  Such a treat, looking on over the mountain.  Cool.  I’m game.  Alright Robyn, well thanks so much for coming on the show.  Again, I’ll put all the links and the resources over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/greensmoothiegirl.  Even though we didn’t talk about smoothies much at all, she is the Green Smoothie Girl after all, and I’ll link to Robyn’s website and some of the other amazing things that she has.  And in the meantime, Robyn, thanks for joining me.

Robyn:  My pleasure, thanks for having me.

Ben:  Alright folks, I’m Ben Greenfield along with Robyn Openshaw, signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com.  Have an amazing week.



Special Announcement: in this podcast, Robyn and Ben discuss a healing retreat in Switzerland they have planned for 2019. To join in on the two-week retreat from June 23-July 7 with Ben and Robyn, and to get full details or add your name to the interest list, simply click here.

Robyn Openshaw is the author of 15 books, including bestsellers The Green Smoothies Diet and 12 Steps to Whole Foods. Her latest book, the USA Today and Amazon #1 Bestseller, Vibe: Unlock the Energetic Frequencies of Limitless Health, Love & Success, was released by Simon & Schuster in October 2017.

She is a former psychotherapist, university professor, and lectured in over 450 cities in the 6 years after launching her popular site GreenSmoothieGirl.com in 2007. She’s a single mom to four children who are now flying the coop. She skis and plays tennis competitively in Utah, and believes that everything is possible if you leverage the highest frequencies in the universe.

She also embarked upon a fascinating cancer quest that we dive into in today’s podcast…

During our discussion, you’ll discover:

-Why Robyn spent 3½ years globetrotting the planet and traveling to 19 clinics of natural medicine and interviewing dozens of doctors, on 4 continents… 9:17

-The fascinating idea that people’s bodies naturally have cancers that get fought off all on their own via the body’s innate immune system… 19:06

-What biological medicine is and how it works… 22:15

-What Robyn discovered about cellular autophagy and longevity while doing a 9 day fast… 37:15

-Why Ben doesn’t do 3, 5 and 7-day water fasts… 40:31

-How hyperthermia can be used to kill cancer cells and how liver hyperthermia works… 47:35

-The way a blood ozone treatment can be used to defeat pathogens, mold, mycotoxins, and more… 57:08

-How you can go on a trip to the Swiss Clinic that Ben and Robyn discuss… 1:05:21

-And much more! Resources from this episode:

Click here to sign up for the 2 week trip to Switzerland that Robyn and Ben are planning

-Robyn’s new book “Vibe: Unlock the Energetic Frequencies of Limitless Health, Love & Success

-The book Ben mentions on cancer and carbon dioxide “Normal Breathing: The Key to Vital Health (Buteyko Method)”

The book on cellular autophagy “Glow15” by Naomi Whittel

-My previous articles and podcasts on cancer:

How To Cure Yourself Of Cancer: An Epic Interview With A Man Who Defied Conventional Medicine & Cured Himself Of Prostate Cancer

Part 2: The Official Q&A On How To Cure Yourself Of Cancer – An Epic Interview With A Man Who Defied Conventional Medicine & Cured Himself Of Prostate Cancer

Why You’ve Been Lied To About Cancer And What You Can Do About It

The Mold-Cancer Link, Resetting Your Nervous System, Dry Fasting, Nanonutrients& More With Ian Clark

336: How Low Can Your Body Fat Go, The New “Red Meat Causes Cancer” Study, Five Ways To Know If Your Heart Is Healthy

318: How Artificial Light Makes You Fat, Does Red Meat Really Cause Cancer, The Best Grip For Pull-Ups & More!

Do Muscle Building Supplements Really Cause Cancer?

299: Does A Vegetarian Diet Reduce Sperm Count, Cell Phones And Brain Cancer, What Is A Good “HRV” Number & More!

Why You Get Cancer And What You Can Do About It

Did Lebron James’ Cell Phone Give Him Mouth Cancer?

248: Does Fish Oil Cause Prostate Cancer, Is Milk Healthy, Are Body Fat Scales Accurate & More!

Episode #128: He Healed His Mom’s Cancer Using Diet, Nutrition & Detox…And He’s On This Audio Episode

How To Treat Cancer With Chinese Medicine: What Happened When Chinese Herbologist Roger Drummer Got An “Incurable” Cancer

Episode #128: He Healed His Mom’s Cancer Using Diet, Nutrition & Detox…And He’s On This Audio Episode

Dr. Jason West’s clinic in Pocatello Idaho

The Biomat Ben uses for hyperthermia and the mylar silver blankets you can place on it

Cancer.gov’s link to hyperthermia for cancer treatment

The Bulletproof podcast with Dr. Tom O’ Bryan on autoimmune treatments

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