Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.

Josh Bruni [00:00:04]: There's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb, you put them on the back of their phone, have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED just sitting in the air on your phone. Oh, wow. So it doesn't have to be connected, anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things just by being in the air.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:00:28]: Your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:31]: Digital square waves. That would be like a pattern like that.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:00:35]: And the body doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. The more you get exposed to them, the more you're gonna have problems.

Josh Bruni [00:00:41]: What we do is we diffract the EMF. The wireless technology that's being transmitted, it diffracts it, which means it diffuses it, and then we reproduce it in a new waveform.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:52]: Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:01]: Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life show.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:03]: Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this, guys, what's up? Welcome to the Greenfield compound.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:19]: Good to be here.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:21]: How's the trip?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:01:22]: It was good.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:23]: Yeah?

Josh Bruni [00:01:24]: Yeah. It's nice to be in the trees.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:26]: Yeah. You rolled into Coeur d'Alene early, right, Josh?

Josh Bruni [00:01:28]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:28]: Have you been over there before?

Josh Bruni [00:01:30]: Yeah, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Well, Eugene, Eugene, Oregon is where I grew up. I lived in Ellensburg, Washington, though, as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:36]: Oh, super close. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:01:38]: But spent some time in Coeur d'Alene as well. Just, you know, the lake and what not. So the trees are home to me, though.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:44]: Yeah, yeah. Sound like an ant. Are you living in Austin now, though?

Josh Bruni [00:01:48]: Yeah, living Austin.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:49]: Okay, cool, cool. How about you, Nick? You said Santa Barbara?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:01:53]: Santa Barbara, yeah, I lived in the eastern Sierra, California, by Mammoth Lakes, for around 20 years.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:58]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:01:59]: But now Santa Barbara, California.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:00]: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I've been stoked about having you guys up. Cause I get so many questions about this whole, like, EMF protection, mitigation, harmonization, modulation thing. So I figured we'd put on our tinfoil hats here and kick out for people listening. All the show notes are gonna be at BenGreenfieldlife.com/emfpod. That's BenGreenfoodlife.com/emfpod.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:23]: If you're watching the video version, Josh and Nick, I don't know how clutch you were in the development of these things. We can talk about that later on if you want. But I've got these AiresTech devices. I got a necklace, I got a pad, I got this thing that I put in my phone, and these guys introduced me to these. And I get so many questions from you guys listening in, especially about this necklace, that I thought I would just take a deep dive finally and have. Have you guys explained all this to me? Now, Josh is actually the CEO of AiresTech and has done a ton of growth marketing, and e-commerce branding for a lot of different companies. I have in front of me here, Pacsun, NordicTrack, 7 For All Mankind, Ancestry.com, big background in entrepreneurship.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:14]: And then, Nick, Josh was bragging on you, but I'll let you brag a little bit more. You're unique in the EEG space, like both hardware and software. Tell me about that.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:03:26]: Correct. Yeah, I'm the CEO of Neurofield incorporated. We build EEG devices, EMF devices, cranial electric devices, photobiomodulation devices, and we write all the software for that, for clinical use and for peak performance and stuff like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:45]: And so for people who aren't familiar with an EEG, give me the overview.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:03:50]: Electroencephalogram. So, basically, what we're doing is we're measuring the tiny little electrical fields or signals that are coming out of your brain. And so we put a cap on your head, and we can measure anywhere from 19 to 37 channels of data in real time. And then we can take that data, we can quantify it. Use machine learning, create, like, a three dimensional image of your brain and figure out where those electrical sources are in the brain, how they're firing, where they're not firing, and then we can, like physical therapy, basically rehabilitate the brain.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:20]: Yeah. Do you know Andrew Hill? At peak brain in LA, I went down. I took my kids down there, too. We did, like, a week of neurofeedback training down there, and it was incredible. Like, I had areas of my brain that on my pre-EEG were lit up for distractibility, and ADHD-like tendencies. You'll walk into a cocktail party and hear, like, ten conversations at once. And being able to focus on one conversation, that was me. After just a week of training and a remapping of the brain, it showed this.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:51]: Everything was dialed in, like the alpha-beta brainwave ratios. I don't remember all the different things that they measured, but it was actually pretty incredible. You can kind of, like, weight-train the brain into a different electrical state, correct?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:05:04]: Yeah, we have a clinic in Santa Barbara called Neurofield Neurotherapy. My wife, who's Dr. Thompson, she's a neuroscientist as well. And we provide the same kind of services for peak performance, but also with people with clinical issues like depression, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, and stuff like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:20]: Yeah. One thing I think I even asked Dr. Hill this when I had him on the show, but this was like four years ago. It's clunky, like all the gel and the cap and the hardware and all the things that go into an EEG. How come there's not just like just a, you know, a way to put on a baseball cap and measure it with a signal sent to your phone yet?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:05:43]: Right, right. It's because you're measuring tiny, tiny electrical signals. I mean, down to the micro Volt level, which is like a millionth of a Volt. And so you have to have an amplifier that is very pristine that can do that. And in order to attach an electrode to the skin and not have a lot of resistance, a lot of noise, that's the trick. So people have made what are called dry leads, but they have like 100 kiloohm resistance and it can be really noisy.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:10]: Yeah. Is that like the Sensei Device that when I showed you in my office, I mean, I like it. I just don't know how it compares to like a clinical.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:06:16]: They're interesting and they do have clinical utility, but when you're looking at it from a research perspective and you want to look at some of the really tiniest electrical signals in the brain, like gamma activity.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:27]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:06:28]: That's really important, you know, for peak performance. You want to see how a brain is producing gamma and how the hub systems in the brain are actually communicating with each other. And gamma is the messenger. And with some of these dry electrode systems, they're so noisy. Listening to Gamma is kind of like listening to somebody whisper in front of a loudspeaker at a Metallica concert.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:49]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:06:50]: And so it's not going to be easy.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:51]: So that's why you need the more complex placement of the electrodes that you're trying to pick up very, very small signals.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:06:58]: Yeah, but the technology has improved. Like, our amplifier is really small. It's an FDA cleared amplifier as a medical EEG. And so now the components and everything have really shrunk down considerably over the last 20 years.

Ben Greenfield [00:07:13]: Yeah, that one's called the NeuroField, NeuroField you developed. One other question about the neurofeedback piece is to actually see results like I did a week at the peak brain in LA, and I felt pretty good after that. Do people do it as, like one-and-done? You know, other people go to the. It's the one that Dave Asprey has made popular. The 40 years of Zen. Is that if you do it once, are you kind of good? Or is it like marathon training or something like that, where if you stop running, you're eventually gonna lose it?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:07:41]: Well, neurofeedback is one flavor of brain performance. Another is neurostimulation, which I favor. Okay. My company makes three different kinds of neurostimulation devices, and the reason why we like them better than neurofeedback is that as soon as you turn them on, your brain starts to entrain and learn what you want it to learn. Basically, with neurofeedback, you have to wait for the brain to do what you want it to do, and then you reward it with some kind of stimulus, like video or auditory or something like that. And so it takes time to get the result. Neurostimulation is exponentially faster. At the end of the day, though, it's all like going to the gym.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:08:21]: You have to do a series of them in order to get strong, and then you have to do maintenance to maintain it.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:27]: Yeah. Okay. So you technically would be going back for repeat visits in an ideal scenario?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:08:32]: Well, for peak performance, yeah. I mean, when I get pro athletes that come in that want to do this, we can really tune them to a very, very high degree, keep them there right before they're going to perform, they do their thing, and then they might take, like, a month off and come back and start again. Yeah, but that's different than, you know, if you take somebody that has depression or has a head injury, you can help rehabilitate them to where they reach a nominal level of performance, where they're good to go, and they stay right there.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:58]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:08:59]: Barring any other insulin.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:00]: And then if they want to plug in, no, they can't. It's like Kung Fu in The Matrix. Proceed. Have you done it before, Josh? Do you do neurofeedback?

Josh Bruni [00:09:04]: I have not. I always think that because the video that we did with him two years ago, people think that we have this, like, this relationship. And this is why I thought it was good to have him on the show with us, is this is only the third time I've met him in person. Now, we've had some conversations like that, but it was a wild course of events that led us to the first meeting, which was we were working with another Neurotherapy. Neuroscientist out of Canada, and we wanted to capture and recreate what we had already done in the lab. So we've sent you a pile of research. You've looked at it, but we've done. We've been working with EEG and our product and understanding the brain and its response for a really long time.

Josh Bruni [00:09:47]: And so I, as a marketer, was thinking, okay, how can we tell this story? Well, let's just show it. Let's. If we can really show it in real-time, that's a powerful story, because then you can show how the phone actually has. Creates a response in your brain. You can interpret how you want, but it typically looks like it's a bad response. And then we can then show that go away using the technology. So we had kind of planned this out with another scientist out of Canada who then couldn't show up to LA. It was during COVID I think it was during COVID Yeah, he couldn't come into the US, and so he referred us to Dr. Dogris.

Josh Bruni [00:10:23]: And Dr. Dogris rolled up to the studio where we were doing this recording. Never met him. Rolls out, and looks like a rock star. And I'm like, you know, you're ready.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:31]: For a polite, groomed canadian.

Josh Bruni [00:10:32]: Yeah, exactly. I had no idea what to expect. And so we had, like, one conversation before that, and just kind of, I told him the setup. Here's what we're looking to do. Here's what we're looking to create. And that video now has been seen probably close to 100 million people across the globe. And he's become like this. People recognize him from that video that we did because it has just blown up.

Josh Bruni [00:10:49]: And. But I would like to tell people, like, look, I I didn't know what to expect. Like, he knew he was gonna come and do this thing, and he was hopefully create these results that I was hoping for. And then obviously we did. And so that that became really popular for us.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:11:02]: Yeah, I was blind.

Josh Bruni [00:11:03]: I had no idea, no idea what.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:11:05]: Was happening there, which actually made it better because.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:08]: Yeah, tell me about the video.

Josh Bruni [00:11:09]: So the video we did was we worked with Vaynermedia, and most people know Gary. Gary Van yeah. And so this is his media company. And so we did this kind of highly produced, like, demonstration in real time of, like, again, what does the phone do to your brain? And then also looking at the neutralizing effect of the Aries product. We used four different test subjects, two women, and two young men. And there was some cool footage in there because they showed us in real time how much phone time they had every day. And some of them had some crazy numbers.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:43]: You mean you pull up screen time?

Josh Bruni [00:11:45]: Yeah, you pull up screen time. And the gentleman had like 19 hours or something. He was a student.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:11:49]: They were kind of surprised.

Josh Bruni [00:11:50]: They were kind of surprised.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:50]: I always wonder how accurate that is because does it count, like, when apps are running in the background? Is there some kind of facial recognition technology? Cause I have apps all the time in the background. And does it count as screen time if I'm listening to an audiobook?

Josh Bruni [00:12:03]: Truth is, I don't even know. Cause I'm the same way. Like, my maps will run all the time. Is that counting me? So I don't know. But it was still staggering to think that your phone was really, let's say, sending and receiving signals the whole time. So whether or not, whatever it is, your phone is still active and.

Ben Greenfield [00:12:17]: Yeah, even if it's an airplane, you guys know that, like, a lot of people go airplane mode and now there's programs like 1 Tap Zap, there's another one. It's just like a shortcut. I have it on my phone that you press sleep. It not only disables, it only puts in airplane mode, but disables wifi and Bluetooth. Sometimes putting it in airplane mode doesn't do. Disables location services, which is another huge one that people don't realize even if the phone's in airplane mode, is still sending a signal and then sucks all the blue light out and turns the screen red. So, yeah, you got to do more than just put it in airplane mode.

Josh Bruni [00:12:50]: You really do. You really do. So the point is regardless, anyway, so we got some great reactions from them, and then we just did a couple different variations of this test where we could get a baseline from everybody.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:00]: Baseline, EEG.

Josh Bruni [00:13:01]: Baseline, EEG. And then we would have them talk on the phone for two minutes, five minutes, seven minutes. Just a variation of. I can't even remember how they received.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:08]: So they received. We did the baseline with nothing on, no phone, nothing. And then we had them hold the.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:16]: Phone, including baseline, EEG in a room that was just like, sucked free of EMF.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:20]: No, not necessarily. No, no. To keep the condition stable.

Josh Bruni [00:13:24]: Like an everyday condition.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:26]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:26]: Okay.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:26]: So we did the same. So we're in the studio filming this.

Josh Bruni [00:13:29]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:29]: Right. So, but they did. They weren't using their phone. They weren't using their phone during the baseline.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:33]: During the baseline. So it was the same. That would keep the level consistent. Right. And so, and so they're getting. They're whatever they're getting hit with. They're getting hit with. But no phone in the hand.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:42]: Right.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:43]: And then we put the phone in the hand and we called it. So now the phone's live. And we just had them hold it closer, their head for, you know, and no talking.

Josh Bruni [00:13:51]: Nothing was coming through the mic.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:52]: No, no earbuds, no wired headphones.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:13:54]: They're just holding up, holding up to their head. And. And then took away the phone and then record EEG again.

Josh Bruni [00:14:00]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:14:00]: Okay. You can't record it and have it live at the same time. It would. It would contaminate the record.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:05]: But they were wearing the cap and everything. They're talking on the phone. So you just start the EEG right away. Yeah. Put the phone down.

Josh Bruni [00:14:11]: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:14:11]: Well, we waited. I think we waited like two minutes, three minutes.

Josh Bruni [00:14:14]: We didn't. We did a full variation. This was probably a 15 hours day.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:14:17]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:14:18]: So it was a lot of variations and it was two years ago. But the point. The point of it was, is we tried to recreate normal. We had a VR headset on one guy who.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:26]: And so that was funky.

Josh Bruni [00:14:27]: Yeah, we did all kinds of things just to kind of test and keep in mind, like, we knew we weren't constructing like, a peer-reviewed study that we're gonna send out and, like, we weren't doing that. We were just simply creating a demonstration of studies that we had already done in controlled environments and things like that. Because what had become apparent, working with his other scientist, was he kept telling me, I can recreate, these results pretty much all the time with anybody, anywhere with your product. And he's like, and that intrigued me, and that's what kind of LED us down this path and then connecting with Dr. Dogris. So I bring that up because, since that video and the amount of people that have seen it, we do get a lot of questions. And I think you've got people who have contacted you and said, hey, what's going on? And so he hasn't been around the product other than what I've introduced him to. And in his reaction in real-time in the studio was what I remember, which was like, he's like, I remember he's like, wow, there's this cooling effect. And that word has always haunted us.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:15:24]: That was a cooling effect. Well, so it was the wrong word.

Josh Bruni [00:15:28]: It was the wrong word.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:15:29]: So what happened was, is that, so we had the condition where the phone was on, right? We recorded that and then waited and then, you know, compared the two conditions, you know, where you didn't have anything on. And anyway, so the absolute power in the brain is what we measure.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:47]: Okay.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:15:48]: So it's kind of like measuring voltage out of a wall. We're looking at the brain in different frequency bands from delta, theta, alpha, beta, and high beta. Right, right. And then we're looking at norm referencing. All right, so basically what I was looking at was, was there an absolute power change? And in what frequency band did it happen in? And what happened was, is that when they had the phone up by their head without any Aries on it, any Aries protection on the phone, the amount of beta and high beta went up to, like, three standards.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:18]: Okay? So when they didn't have. So, like, this is the one that I. So I have a. I have a defender shield case, but then I get this in the little credit card pocket.

Josh Bruni [00:16:27]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:27]: Of the defender showcase I have in my office downstairs is big one in front of my laptop. And then I wear this one.

Josh Bruni [00:16:37]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:37]: And so you guys were using this one?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:16:40]: We actually used this one.

Josh Bruni [00:16:41]: A variety of other ones. We put one on the phone, on the VR. We put one on her purse.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:16:46]: Right.

Josh Bruni [00:16:46]: And really, the differences between them are just the sensitivity and then. And then the reproduction of a biotrophic field. And so we can talk more about kind of how it works.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:57]: Yeah, we'll get into that.

Josh Bruni [00:16:58]: The larger the silicon resonator, the semiconductor in the center, the more sensitive it is. And so the further away from the source it can be. And then the smaller it is, which is like the one you stick to the phone, because it's right on the phone, and all the antennas, it can be closer, so it can be smaller.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:13]: Okay?

Josh Bruni [00:17:14]: So that's really the only difference.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:17:15]: There's one other piece. So one condition where the phone was live and no protection. Right. Then we had another condition where the phone was live and it had Aries protection. Okay, so the first condition was no, you know, there's nothing there. And what surprised me was, like, when we looked at the EEG, the beta and high beta had gone up to three standard deviations above the norm without the Aries. Without the Aries on the phone. So now, you know, you're thinking, okay, so the brain's responding to this.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:17:44]: And then we put the Aries protection on the phone. And then we called the phone again, and we exposed the person and then took another recording after the fact there. And what we found was that the beta actually went back down. So when I said cooling effect, that was the wrong word. What it meant was the absolute power in beta and high beta went down to normal levels when there was protection on the phone.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:08]: Yeah. Did you guys ever try, like, could the person see whether it was on or off the phone when they were doing the test?

Josh Bruni [00:18:14]: The different. Again, the different, the conditions were all different. The length of time they were on the phone, the length of time between. We had trend, a lot of different variations. And in some of the cases they knew, some cases they didn't.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:26]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:18:27]: And the one reason why we like EEG, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but. But it's difficult to, as an average person, to manipulate.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:36]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:18:36]: In any. And you would see it, like. Like, if I was to, hey, control. Well, maybe not you. I don't know, control, alpha wave. Or like, most people don't have a clue of, like, what's going on, how to. What's the connection?

Ben Greenfield [00:18:47]: It's subconscious.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:18:48]: Yeah, unless I train meditators.

Josh Bruni [00:18:50]: That's exactly right. Like, there are very few people that actually understand how to do that. So again, I was comfortable doing this demonstration the way that we did it because we have it on the website. I know we'll probably talk about the science at some point on this conversation. We had done this in labs and in control settings many times. This is a lot of the work that's been peer-reviewed that you'll see on our site has been these EEG, EKG looking at the heart, the brain variability, all of those connected and in the same study. So you can see the full connection, you can see the effect the product has. So I was comfortable recreating in this way and had this other scientist who had done dozens of these, by the way, and then contacted us later saying he had done dozens of these demonstrations with our product.

Josh Bruni [00:19:33]: So that's where I was. Like, I was comfortable doing this. I knew that this kind of idea of placebo with EEG was probably not something we had to really worry too much about. Again, I would. He can speak to that. But having done this now many times since, the results haven't changed. Whether someone knows it's on their phone, not on their phone, it hasn't changed at all.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:52]: Okay. So whether they know or don't know, it seems to have an effect. Cause that's some of the pushback I get is like, well, you're wearing this super pretty thing. You know, it's supposed to help you. What if it's just a full-on placebo? And if you were to, like, wear something, like, if we were to take, like, a square piece of cardboard and paint a pretty holograph on it and not tell me, would it still have the same effect? But you guys are saying that you've found in some of your studies, whether it was this video or the studies you did leading up to that, that if somebody doesn't, if somebody's being tested, but does not know what they're being tested for, what the condition is or what this device that they're wearing is supposed to do, you still see some benefit, even if, even if the person's kind of blinded.

Josh Bruni [00:20:33]: Yeah. And again, in our actual controlLED studies, we are, we are controlling for that. In the dozens of demos we've done since I have not observed in working with Dr. Dogris and others that we've done this with other neuroscientists we've done this with, there hasn't been a difference. But I can't say for sure that that's not possible. Like, you know, that maybe someone's more relaxed because maybe they feel, I don't actually know, but I haven't seen it. But I can't say that doesn't happen. But I know for our studies that we've done, it is controlLED, obviously.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:02]: I mean, I see an increase in HRV, particularly when I'm working around technology, wearing it or using my phone. And even though I'm a dummy and I haven't figured out how to do this, I've thought about, well, what if I just like, try to get something that looks similar and then have my kids, like, mix them up and put one on me and see if I actually know the difference, to use it as an n equals one. Like, that's the thing I constantly wonder.

Josh Bruni [00:21:23]: You could slide it into like, this is, I put this one in here and I can, it's taxes to my phone. That's how I do. I mean, you could just simply, you would know.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:30]: You just like, somebody like, tell my kids for a week. Like either take it out. Yeah, exactly. And don't tell me.

Josh Bruni [00:21:36]: And don't tell me.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:37]: That's a good point. I should do my own internal test for that because that's one question I get is the placebo, and the other questioning it from a lot of people is, well, pretend with the necklace is, what is this? And I have a hard time explaining it to them sometimes. Besides, it's a personal protection device for EMF, which people get. So let's go through that. Like, what is the actual technology?

Josh Bruni [00:21:57]: Yeah. And you know what's, I would start with the fact that I think sometimes, because we're in this category of EMF protection, that's where the product is positioned today. And I think sometimes people want to pull us back into this kind of muddy, murky category of all these products that existed for a long time, whether they're stickers or they're crystals or they're, they're minerals of some sort.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:24]: Right.

Josh Bruni [00:22:24]: And the truth is, I don't believe that we fit in that category. And the reason why I say that is, this is actually a technology, and it's based on proven scientific principles. There's nothing about this that science doesn't fully understand. And so what I mean by that is the team that developed this basically took. Well accepted, understood scientific physics principles, stack them together to create a specific outcome. And so what I mean by that is, everything about this, how it's built, how it's made, the math of the grooves that are etched into the semiconductor, it's all available on the website. There's 100% transparency on the product.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:06]: You mean the blueprint for.

Josh Bruni [00:23:07]: The blueprint is all on there? Yeah. I mean, this is very truthfully, it's math that we're talking about here because we're talking about waves, which is all. We're also math. And so the idea that these waves that we're talking about, this narrow band of intense frequency.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:25]: When you say these waves that we're talking about neural bands of intense frequencies, you're saying, like, what we would be exposed to. Yeah, like a phone or a Wi-Fi router.

Josh Bruni [00:23:33]: Yeah. Let's call that the EMF that we're concerned about.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:35]: Okay.

Josh Bruni [00:23:36]: Is it really a narrow band that is understood? What's. How it's transmitting data and things like that. We understand that. We understand the math, understands the shape of the wave, how it works, and how that's all very well known and understood to us average people. We don't know anything about that. Right? Because we all ignored our math classes in school. But we're talking about waves, and their shapes, and the amplitude, the frequency, the phase, all of that is just well-understood math. And so then the way that this product works is the gold lattice that's around it really acts as an antenna.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:10]: It's a highly conductive gold lattice around this shiny mirror thing in the middle.

Josh Bruni [00:24:14]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:15]: Okay.

Josh Bruni [00:24:15]: The lattice there is kind of the start of it, which is a way to well, even back up, because there's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:26]: Okay?

Josh Bruni [00:24:26]: Spread the two little, you know, wipes.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:29]: Like an LED light. Little LED light.

Josh Bruni [00:24:30]: Blink by a thousand on Amazon for a dollar. Right? They're super inexpensive, a little electronic component, like a one-watt or two-watt.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:37]: Finding those around here. We avoid those flicker LED bulbs here.

Josh Bruni [00:24:40]: Yeah, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:41]: But I could probably find.

Josh Bruni [00:24:42]: But you just pull the little leads out, and you can either attach two LEDs together to create a circuit, and they are directional and go in and out of the LED. So you'd have to just put it. So that it creates a circuit and you just put it on your phone. And, you can use another little diode that controls the loop of the electricity you put on the back of your phone. Have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED just sitting in the air on your phone. Oh, wow. So it doesn't have to be connected to anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things just by being in the air.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:22]: Right.

Josh Bruni [00:25:22]: And so I start there because then.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:24]: It'S kind of a supercomputer.

Josh Bruni [00:25:25]: You start there because. Because then you say, okay, I understand that that's an LED is a little electrical component that I can put on my phone. And it lights up just from the air. Right. Just from the transmission of data to your phone. And then you realize that what I'm talking about is another electronic component, which is what this is. And so this antenna captures that same energy that's lighting up that bulb. And it controls the.

Josh Bruni [00:25:50]: It controls the energy, which is what, this gold is doing. And the shape is specific. This is a Fractal Matrix, as it's called. The science word would be a Fractal Matrix, and that controls the energy. Then the center is a semiconductor, and if you hold it to the light, you can actually kind of see there's a pattern etched in it that's also a Fractal Matrix.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:12]: What's a Fractal Matrix?

Josh Bruni [00:26:14]: Fractals are, and you probably know this better than I do, because every time I start talking, keep in mind I learn a lot of this stuff on the fly. I'm not a scientist of any sort. I'm a business person. But fractals are basically repeating geometry that has a specific shape. And really fractals have an infinite statistical ability to recreate.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:42]: If you take too much magic mushrooms and close your eyes and listen to music.

Josh Bruni [00:26:45]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:46]: Almost like a sacred geometry kind of shape.

Josh Bruni [00:26:48]: It is. And I mean, I think there is a lot of. I think there's a lot of similarities to, like, sacred geometry and kind of what we're talking about. I don't know any of that. I just do not. I would, I don't. They're separate to me because I only think of them in terms of this. I don't know about that.

Josh Bruni [00:27:01]: But I have a lot of people say that because they see the patterns. Yeah, but the reality is we're just talking about fractals. And fractals show up in nature everywhere. They show up, in the cells of like a leaf or like trees. And they're, they're everywhere around us. And the idea is, it allows the fractals to allow for this reproduction of a broader band of frequencies. And so we'll put that over the shelf for right now. But the idea is the shape and the grooves that are etched into the semiconductor.

Josh Bruni [00:27:32]: First of all, a semiconductor is silicon. And that in itself is an electrical component that has the ability to manipulate energy, which is why it's used in microprocessors and everywhere else because it's highly tunable to do, to create a specific outcome. You can change the polarity of waves. You can change, like, there's a lot of things you can do with the silicon. So what we do is we diffract this, the EMF, the wireless technology that's being transmitted, it diffracts it, which means it diffuses it. Then we reproduce it in a new waveform. And so that's a broader band that we're talking about.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:10]: Okay, so this is a waveform. It's like traveling through the air from my wifi router, from my phone. And that waveform has a specific amplitude and frequency or a specific shape. And when it hits this, this is somehow changing the nature of that wave.

Josh Bruni [00:28:29]: Yes. And it does so not, not in a, let's say a direct way, meaning, like, this wave exists, hits this, and it comes out the other side different. What is actually happening is there's a field that's being created off the surface of the resonator. And so the resonator is creating a new field. So a third field, your body would be field one, which is made up of multiple fields, really. Then the field that the data is being transmitted on would be field two, and this would be field three. And so in this third field is where now we talk about superposition, we talk about interference, which is really the basis of how this works, which is the ability to cancel out the waves that we don't want and then amplify waves that we do want. And so what we see in, like, the EEG and other tests that the biofeedback tests that we do is we do see a stimulating effect because we are amplifying the beneficial frequencies.

Josh Bruni [00:29:24]: And especially, like I would say, in healthy, like, elite athletes, a lot of what I believe we're seeing, and you can jump in anytime, but we do see the stimulating effect where we see, let's say, parts of the brain or where they're actually either coming up or they're lowering and there's a normalization occurring. And that often happens just over their baseline numbers. Forget about the phone or what the phone's doing. We see this improve our baseline.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:50]: You mean when you're doing a QEEG? Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:29:52]: And so we see this improvement on baseline, and a lot of that is because the stimulating therapeutic effect of the beneficial frequencies that are being amplified.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:59]: What would be an example of, like, a wave that you don't want and a wave that you do want. How does that work?

Josh Bruni [00:30:05]: It's the frequencies, and again, that you would note that these type of waveforms.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:30:08]: Are important because your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:12]: Digital square waves. That would be like, a pattern like that. Okay.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:30:16]: And the body doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. The more you get exposed to them, the more you're gonna have problems.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:22]: Why are they bad for you?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:30:23]: Because the body doesn't know what to do with them. It's very disruptive. And so if you introduce a square wave to the body, it can control a bio wave.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:30]: So this is when people are talking about, like, DNA damage, tissue heating, calcium influx into cells. That's all response to square waveform.

Josh Bruni [00:30:38]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:38]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:30:39]: So, I mean, a lot of technologies use square wave in order to manipulate the body line, like ultrasound or repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation, because it's a reliable.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:49]: Way to send packets of information.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:30:50]: Right, square waves. And to be able to measure a response from the body instantaneously. And so it's used in medicine all the time in controlled ways. But a brief exposure is not going to be bad for you. Prolonged exposure is going to be deleterious over time, for sure, because the body is going to be in phase. Okay? The brain's gonna be in phase. And when the brain is in phase and it's flowing, it's synchronous, then you're healthy, you're running well, and you have access to your capabilities, but when it's out of phase, you're not performing at anywhere near what you're capable of.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:25]: And it kind of flies in the face of what you'd logically expect. Right. Because you'd expect some type of predictability order regular square waveform to be good for the body, and then, like, a more chaotic non-square waveform to kind of be chaotic or introduce additional entropy. But it's the opposite.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:31:42]: Yeah, it can be bad for you. Anything that level of exposure is probably going to be bad for you.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:49]: What would be an example of a good waveform? What's that one look like?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:31:51]: Yeah, sinusoidal waveforms.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:53]: Sinusoidal. So that's more of like a parabolic curve?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:31:56]: Yeah, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:58]: Okay.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:31:58]: Yeah. We use that in neurostimulation all the time because the body does create sine waves. The braid is a sine wave generator, basically.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:05]: What do you mean? You use it in neuro stimulation.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:32:07]: So we use cranioelectric stimulation to help correct different problems with the brain, for instance, like memory issues. All right, so if I.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:16]: If I have a circadia, Fisher Wallace, by the way, like a stimulator for relaxation.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:32:21]: That's a biphasic square wave. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, it's a 15 kHz biphasic square wave. It's not. That's not what you want. It doesn't necessarily.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:29]: Try use it, however. It's up to you.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:32:33]: But so put it this way. So, like when you're a kid, right? If we measure theta in your temporal lobe and we measure it in your frontal lobe, and we take those two waveforms and superimpose them on top of each other, they should have zero difference in phase. They should look like one waveform. As you get older and you expose yourself to different things, then you start to go out of phase. The more out of phase you get, the more you're going to have problems in those regions of the brain talking to each other. Once they achieve, like, 180 degrees anti-phase, now you're going to have significant problems like frontal temporal dementia, Alzheimer's, you know, that kind of issue. And so when we do neurostimulation, we bring those areas back into phase. All right? So this is a practice we've been working on for over 20 years now.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:18]: Okay?

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:33:19]: So when I came across this technology, what's interesting is, is that if you have something that actually can help correct phase in a room, right, it's not going to be disruptive to you. It's going to help your body to do what it knows how to do.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:31]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:33:32]: It's the best doctor in the room, you know?

Ben Greenfield [00:33:34]: So. So what if, let's say the wave is cut? Let's say the wave is attacking me from the back. Or, like, you got. This is like my setup downstairs. Even though I don't have Wi-Fi here. If I were to turn the router on, it would look like this. Like, I've got this in front of my computer, but the routers are back there.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:47]: So it's kind of like hitting me from the back, isn't it? Hitting, like, my body before it gets to this device that I have next to my computer in front of me.

Josh Bruni [00:33:56]: The answer is no. What's happening is, if there's enough energy being emitted from behind you, there's enough to create this third field that I described, which is actually a three-dimensional field. And it's the way, again, that's. This is where, like I said, if you look at the studies on the site, the recent one we did, which was peer-reviewed, it was also published research. This one is specifically on. It's what our patent is. Our recent patent was based on. It was presented at the International Information Technologies Congress in London just two years ago.

Josh Bruni [00:34:33]: The team that did the peer review did the presentation. The reason why I bring that one up is because there are all these different simulations that you can do around this three-dimensional hologram that's then created, and the more energy that. The ironic part is, the more energy that's being created through these, let's say the negative EMF that we don't want, the bigger and more powerful this field then becomes.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:55]: And so because it's almost like a energy.

Josh Bruni [00:34:58]: It's like a backfire.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:59]: It's like sucking up the actual energy that's in the room.

Josh Bruni [00:35:02]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:03]: And converting that into the more beneficial waveforms you guys are talking about.

Josh Bruni [00:35:07]: Think of, like, a hose. Like, the more water, the more pressure it's going through it. And I have a nozzle that then nozzle spreads out. Spreads it out.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:14]: That makes sense. Is there? Because, you know, you hear about it. You hear things like, you talked about photobiomodulation earlier, Nick, like, the human beings produce light. I think my dad originally showed this to me how you can take, like, a GDV camera, gas discharge visualization camera, and somehow photograph that light. Do you guys have a way of, like, showing this field that you're talking about? Like, can you visualize it or measure it? Somehow?

Josh Bruni [00:35:36]: This comes up. This comes up pretty regularly, and we have had different ways to visualize it. A lot of people go to, like, okay, the EMF reader, they go to the oscilloscope, all these different things that are, I would say, more common and more accessible. Yeah, those don't tend. EMF readers don't work because you need the external field present. That's more powerful. It's going to show up on the EMF reader.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:58]: And if I use one of those EMF readers, will it differentiate between the two different waves?

Josh Bruni [00:36:01]: They're not sensitive enough, they're not refined enough. They're looking at specific.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:05]: That's my impression. You can't measure a square waveform versus a sinusoidal waveform with an EMF meter.

Josh Bruni [00:36:09]: Yeah, it won't work. And so that's not a great, great test. This oscilloscope is similar in the fact that it doesn't have a broad enough spectrum. And the way that this works, where waves are mixing and the way that interference works, both waves are present and mixing together, that you can't isolate each one individually. So there are. There are ways to do it. And we've talked about a few and some. A lot of our sciences come from Europe and eastern Europe and around, and it's also, some of it's a little bit older.

Josh Bruni [00:36:40]: So we have better technology than we did when we first, this is actually, the newest generation. This semiconductor is far more powerful than most of what was in our studies, our original version of it. And so this one's actually more powerful. The recent study that we have on there. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the same one.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:57]: And so I want the best.

Josh Bruni [00:36:58]: Yeah, you want the best. We have a new one coming out, though. That's. That's actually twice the sensitivity and power as this one, which I'm super excited about because I actually wish everyone would have the larger ones. The one on the phone is great because it's so close. That one works.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:12]: You mean you wish everyone would have this one, this big one?

Josh Bruni [00:37:14]: Yeah, but, exactly, because now I can take that one, and what's on your neck? The future iteration of this will now have the same level of power over that larger one, but you can always have it on you. So to have that always stimulating effect will be so beneficial for so many people.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:30]: Yeah. Cause I'm not gonna wear this thing. It looks stupid.

Josh Bruni [00:37:31]: Yeah, exactly. It's too big. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:33]: Okay, so the idea here is that if the field is in the room, it's adjusting the strength of that field, and then it's producing a biological impact on me. But the field strength isn't necessarily diminished. It's transformed. Am I using the right words? It transforms, whatever you guys call it. So this is. This is probably the biggest thing. I mean, this. Even you guys, I think you heard this.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:57]: This came up in the past couple of months. Somebody was like, well, I don't think the AiresTech device works because it's not shown to reduce the field strength. It's only been shown to have a biological impact, and therefore it could just be a placebo effect. But what I'm hearing from you guys is that the premise is incorrect because the goal is not to reduce the field strength.

Josh Bruni [00:38:15]: Exactly. One of the things that the original. One of the original, like, ideas and instructions behind the product was actually for military application. And the Dmitri, who's the founder? His father is actually an inventor. And who's Dimitri? Dimitri is the, the founder of Aries.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:36]: Okay.

Josh Bruni [00:38:37]: And so Dimitri and I, you know, work together. Dimitri focuses mostly on products, and I do most of the business building and stuff like marketing and things like that. Dimitri lives in Canada, lives in Toronto. And his father's the engineer, the scientist behind this, the original kind of creator of it. But the original chargeback in the nineties was to create a solution that didn't disrupt satellite communications. And what they were doing in the military, there were these remote missile operator trailers that they were working in, and the teams were having issues with health and staying healthy and staying cognitively sharp, and they identified that this was from the EMF that they're exposed to. And keep in mind, that they're in metal boxes filled with commuter equipment, satellites, and MREs. Yeah, there's a lot.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:22]: Peanut butter, powdered coffee.

Josh Bruni [00:39:23]: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And so the charge was to make a solution that does not disrupt the communications but mitigates the effect. And so that was the initial kind of platform that we built from that was in the nineties. And so over time, it's been refined and gotten smaller. Really, what has improved has been. I think it's a lithography that the ability to etch on the semiconductor has just gotten better. So the. The finer, the deeper the grooves go in there.

Josh Bruni [00:39:57]: And the ability to diffract all that has gotten so much better over the years that we're able to make this small.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:01]: I didn't even realize it was a groove, honestly, like, until we're having this, I thought it was just like a pattern. But you're telling me if I think of a microscope, this, there's actually little grooves in here.

Josh Bruni [00:40:09]: Yeah. And again, you on the website, you can actually see. There's the math of the grooves. You can see it. There's a, there's the schematics are on there.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:16]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:40:17]: I'll tell you this. We are a publicly traded company, and I think that's. We have a different level of scrutiny and rigor. That we had to go through than virtually, I would say most other wellness companies, but also people specifically in this space.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:30]: It was three on the US exchange.

Josh Bruni [00:40:31]: Like, it's actually dual-listed right now in the US, actually US, Europe and Canada. Before we listed, the primary is in Canada, the stock, the ticker symbols, Wi-Fi, and in the US, it's AAIIRF, and American Aries is the name of the company on the stock exchange. But before we were able to list the investment bank that takes you public that raises the money to do all of that, they were required due to the securities commissions of all the different countries that I just mentioned. They had to do their own third-party testing. And I don't typically, like. We don't do a lot of third-party stuff that we talk about. We mostly only talk about peer-reviewed and published studies that we've done.

Josh Bruni [00:41:14]: But they did their own third party research, what they did in the US, and they had to really demonstrate the effect that the product does. And in the back of the claims we said that it did. And I would say, we aren't talking about a lot of the physiological stuff that we're talking about. We're saying that the product creates this field that we've talked about. It modulates EMF. That's what their work had to do because nobody was going to touch whether or not that was beneficial for humans or not. Right? That was not what they did. They just.

Josh Bruni [00:41:43]: That what they verified was that the waves that we had, the ability to modulate the frequencies, that was a three-year process to do that. So then we're listed and we're just held to a different standard. Like, I can't make the claims. I can't do the things that a lot of people in this space do. I can't. I can't put your face without your permission next to my product, which is a lot of people do in this space. I'll throw a clip of Joe Rogan up, they'll throw Huberman up, and. Yeah, all these people and.

Josh Bruni [00:42:07]: And mingle the two together as if those guys are endorsing their product. We just can't do that.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:10]: Will still do that with me.

Josh Bruni [00:42:11]: I was gonna say, I see your face.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:14]: Some random, like, supplements company from China the last time, and they just got my name, you know, like, we see all the time.

Josh Bruni [00:42:21]: We get tagged it. We get tagged in a specific.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:23]: I think it was cool. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:42:29]: We see it all the time that we see people take, you know, our ads and there's another company that makes a microchip, a similar story to ours that doesn't tell you how their product works, but they use a lot of ask you.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:40]: Like, a lot of people are under the impression because I get this too. Like, I don't have to dot in my phone anymore. Actually, your guys dot my travel computer downstairs. And people like, oh, that's one of those things. There's like a billion of them on Amazon. What do you tell people when they say, gosh, I've seen like, you know, 18 versions of this at the healthcare expo where people want to come muscle?

Josh Bruni [00:42:58]: Test me, you know? Yeah, this is why I started the conversation. Like, people try to pull us back into that conversation. One thing I would say is like, we spend a lot of time just building bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I don't spend a lot of time in those conversations. I truly don't. And because you know how it is on the Internet, that is the conversation on the Internet, and we just try to avoid it and we try to point people back. I'm never going to try to convince, anybody. What I would steer them towards is, let me help you educate them to become a better advocate for yourself, and then you can go determined.

Josh Bruni [00:43:31]: I'm not going to try to convince you because that's a losing battle in most cases. And so let me help you understand good science and bad science. At the end of the day, you're still going to have to make a decision for yourself and I'm not going to try to change your mind on that. But let me help you. We spend a lot of time on educating people on how to understand, and interpret science, and direct people to other resources on that. And like you had the gentleman on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about his product and hanging the waveguard guy. Yeah, and I didn't really know who he was.

Josh Bruni [00:44:00]: I spent a lot of time on other products and I just, I struggled with that a little bit because he spent an hour talking about how great his science was and everyone else was bad. And so I was like, man, he must have some crazy papers on there. And so I took a peek and I was blown away at like the logos of FCC on there, which you buy and you pay for those, they don't mean anything. And then he has some studies on there that showed no results. And I'm like, these are public. And he's saying he has the best science and then trashing everyone else's science. I just don't like that. Like, that's not, I don't care what he does.

Josh Bruni [00:44:34]: He can go do that, or other companies, for that matter. It's just a weird world. That's why I'm like, people try to pulse into that.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:39]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:44:40]: And we are the stuff that we're working on, like with Dr. Dogris and some of the stuff we have coming up with athletes and sports teams and leagues.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:46]: We're just talking about your studies, not just like four people doing pre and post-EEGs, like this story that you started with. Like, you've got. You have more studies than that.

Josh Bruni [00:44:55]: Yeah. Yeah. There are over 40 studies on our website, and I'm not talking like, you know, bought and paid for third-party, independently reviewed stuff. I'm like, this is peer-reviewed research that spans decades.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:05]: If I was sitting next to you on an airplane and asked you what would be one of your favorite studies in terms of one, that's the most powerful story for you.

Josh Bruni [00:45:13]: What do you think I really like? Well, there are maybe two that come to mind. If I was to start this company over again, I probably would not have went to EMF protection for humans.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:25]: Really?

Josh Bruni [00:45:25]: No, I would have gone to the bees and bees. Yeah. Because I like honey. Yeah. I think bees, number one, if you look at, like, you can Google EMF and let's say sharks or crustaceans, and no one's mad about the fact that there's published papers and research that's come out in the last weeks, months around the Internet pipeline that goes through the Atlantic and the crustaceans that are being deformed and all that. No one's mad about that. We all accept that.

Josh Bruni [00:45:52]: It's an easier conversation than me telling you your phone's.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:55]: Unless you love crustaceans and sharks and more people love bees.

Josh Bruni [00:45:57]: Yeah. But my point is, if I were to talk about animals and I was to talk about insects, those are easier conversations to have. It's easier to test, it's easier to get funding for. It's just easier. And the impact and the scale that I could grow is significantly different. And I'm not being pulled back into these conversations with, I would say, products that are just unsavory.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:18]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:46:19]: You know, and so I really like some of the stuff that we've done with bees. We're in the middle of a two-year study with a large beekeeper organization out of Quebec, and it's an observational one that's going to lead to a bigger, more controlled study. But the feedback that we're getting is just mind-blowing. Like, the survival rate of their colonies through winter really is unbelievable. And so they're doing, like, with one.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:41]: Of these devices, like, yeah, we use.

Josh Bruni [00:46:43]: The bigger one inside the hive, huh? Yeah. And there's some other crazy things that.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:47]: Have been reported, like wonder if the honey, like the antioxidant content or anything like that, changes. I'd be curious.

Josh Bruni [00:46:52]: Yeah. But what we're finding is their ability to communicate, to stay organized, to defend themselves. And if anyone has paid attention to the bee colonies, you got the guards at the door, you got the people that take care of the queen. You've got all the people building. There is an order to that. The EMF is extremely disruptive and disorienting, and it's one of many environmental stressors for bees. Just a different conversation to have. If I was like, hey, this is a tool, or this is a technology that's passive, that can be put in there and actively protect.

Josh Bruni [00:47:27]: No one's going to argue with me. Right. And we can easily test that. So for me, those are some. Some areas that I would have probably pushed into. And we have studies on that, and we're in the middle of another one. So that's one. And then the next one, I would say, is, I really am fascinated by.

Josh Bruni [00:47:42]: And the more that I talked to Dr. Dogris, and I've, he's, he's heard me say this now, in the last few hours today, as we've been hanging out, the ones related to math, I really like, because math is math, like, where we're quantifying things, we measure things because those are like, it's black and white. Math is black and white. It's either right or it's wrong. Right. It's not great. Otherwise, the math doesn't work.

Josh Bruni [00:48:04]: And so the other study I'd point to is the most recent published study, peer-reviewed published study that we did, which was, I think, 2022. It's on the website. It's probably, and the reason why is. Cause our recent patent is based upon that research.

Ben Greenfield [00:48:17]: Okay?

Josh Bruni [00:48:18]: And so it's a global patent that's on the function of this and the ability to protect biological organisms, and so I like that one because it's been scrutinized by a lot of different groups around the globe, and then the success of that, it was they were invited to then present the findings, and then that was then published. So I really like that because of all the questions that everyone has, because we're all not scientists. And so when I talk about frequencies and we talk about wave theory, which is fascinating, it's math and it's well understood. And that is outlined in that research. So I really like that because it's black and white, it's math, it's provable. You can recreate it, you can reproduce the results, and it's been hammered on.

Ben Greenfield [00:49:05]: By some, what kind of math are we talking about? Like you're measuring the waveform change?

Josh Bruni [00:49:09]: Yes, let's say again, you're talking about, you know, phase, frequency, and amplitude are all shapes that we're talking about, right? And so the ability to then what is it? What happens when it then interacts with, again, thinking of wave theory, if you've seen like the slit test, where a wave, you know, hits one, slit, two slits three, what happens to that wave? And how does it vibe and how does it come back to get like all those things? That's all math-based, right? And so your ability to recreate that through computer modeling and simulations is what I'm talking about. And so that's where, okay, we can say the depth of the groove, the shapes of these grooves that are in the semiconductor, the ability to diffract and create that nonlinear output, which means, what I mean by that is a linear output would mean that that EMF wave that's coming in this new one would have to have some correlation to that initial input, right? So these nonlinear outputs that are being created are mathematical equations and you can find all those on the website, right? Like, that's what has been tested and peer-reviewed many, many times.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:11]: How do you measure the nonlinear output? So if you're not using like an oscillosator or one of those EMF meters.

Josh Bruni [00:50:17]: Or something like that, again, that's where I go back to, like, that's all great because you and I think that we think visually, right when you're talking to people that are in the space of frequencies and waves and things like that, it's very math. It's very much, that they can create models and simulations based upon the math equations. And that's what I'm trying to say is like, everybody wants to use these meters. They want to visualize, they want to know themselves. But the sophistication of a consumer-based tool isn't there.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:48]: Exactly what tool are they using in the studies though?

Josh Bruni [00:50:51]: They're using, let's mathematically equate. They're going to use an equation and they're going to use a simulation of, okay, what happens with this particular input of, let's say 28 GHz, what happens when this interferes with.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:05]: So it's an indirect simulation based on an algorithm that is predicting what would theoretically happen to that waveform if you were exposed to, the Wi-Fi.

Josh Bruni [00:51:15]: Or the phone or something. That's a good way to say it. And I want to say this in a way that's like, okay, these are, these are theories, but it's. Yeah, it is mathematical equations that are, like, provable. Yeah, I get like, it's not like if we threw pane at this window 100 different times, how many times would we get the same result right? And we would try to then come up with an equation and prove that, no, it's the inverse of that. It's like we all do. We know with certainty of the outcome based upon math, because there's no, there's no variable that we don't know.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:44]: People ask me if it affects my ability to be able to take messages or make phone calls or the actual power of the phone. I haven't experienced that. They also have experience. I was, like, sleeping. I should show you guys. I sleep in a Faraday cage up in the bedroom. It's a little like a push button, remote control, shielded healing meat. And your ability to make calls and send messages almost disappears.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:03]: But it doesn't actually affect the function of the device, does it?

Josh Bruni [00:52:08]: No, the transmission of the data is not interfered with and again, that was the original, like, inception of the product. That's what the goal was, was to like, how do we modulate the EMF in a way without disrupting the communication? And so I see a day, like, where this is built, we become, I would say, the catalytic converter. I don't. You like a muffler, but like, the catalytic converter of technology, because we can mitigate that emission in a way that's, that's especially if it was built into everything, then it's a completely different world that.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:40]: We mean, you can take this and build it into a router or build it into a phone case, rather than being a standalone device, you'd want it.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:52:49]: Close to the electronics because it's generating the field based on what's coming out of those.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:54]: Yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [00:52:55]: And so, yeah, it's going to be even bigger.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:58]: You guys have to license the technology.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:59]: To do that, though.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:59]: Like, you wouldn't want to make Wifi routing.

Josh Bruni [00:53:01]: No, not at all. I do not want to be in the business.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:03]: Yeah, I was going to say, like, you're going to make a bunch of skews and shoot yourself in the floor.

Josh Bruni [00:53:06]: We have a lot of discussions pretty regularly on with different partners, the little OEM partners like that. And I think we did a test with a sleep technology company. I don't think they're in the market yet, but they've integrated into theirs. And sleep is a really interesting one because that's probably one of the first areas that people experience some level of disruption from EMF and the most important.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:26]: Area of your life, or time of your life to protect yourself.

Josh Bruni [00:53:28]: And athletes talk a lot about it. I think Tom Brady wrote about it in his book. And like, anyways, a lot of people talk about it, so it becomes very approachable. And for some reason, we all accept it as like, okay, that area of my life, I get the EMF might be harmful, but everything else, nah, we're good, but, so sleep technology is an interesting one. But I did that one mostly to, like, test my supply chain to build something that was out of my current lineup. But I expect we'll have some more stuff rolling out here that's similar to where we take our smallest one.

Josh Bruni [00:53:56]: It would be tiny, then it would just be able to build it inside of the phone.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:59]: The way I think about the sleep piece is like, I'm not gonna be a total Luddite or go move in with the Amish or whatever, so I'm going to use technology during the day. But because I'm obviously not checking emails and doing work while I'm asleep, there's no need to have the phone on. That's the place where I can really heavily focus on EMF protection, know?

Josh Bruni [00:54:16]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:17]: Stupid Faraday cages and all this. Like, that's the area I tell people, if you're gonna focus on one region of your house or your living environment, focus on the sleeping chamber, because that is where you can get all nerded out.

Josh Bruni [00:54:27]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:28]: And then still be like a normal person using the convenience of technology during the day. And then just kind of like, you know, when you work out and you recover the same thing. It's like you're working out during the day electrically, and then recovering non-electrically at night.

Josh Bruni [00:54:39]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:39]: With nonnative EMF. Yeah. The devices obviously vary. You got this little square one. This is the one I keep on my phone, I think you said. And then I wear the necklace, and then I have this one, this bigger one in front of my workstation downstairs where I have a lot more technology. And then I have the little dot I used to have on my phone. But I have my travel computer now next to the keyboard.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:04]: Are those the four main devices you guys have?

Josh Bruni [00:55:06]: Yeah, we have another small one that's similar to the one on your neck that was originally developed for pets.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:12]: Okay.

Josh Bruni [00:55:12]: And I found that it worked really well for children because, number one, I don't think we're thinking enough about the children. Babies all the way. Just all the way.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:22]: You guys sent me a couple for my pets, and I gave them to my boys. More concerned about my kids than my dogs.

Josh Bruni [00:55:26]: So that's what I learned, too. So from the feedback I learned from consumers was I saw this trend develop where it was like, it was really easy to clip it to the backpack on their keychain, whatever it was, was, and they weren't mad about it. You put something on the kid's phone, and all of a sudden they get made fun of or whatever, and that becomes a thing. So that's the only other one that's in that lineup. As I said, we're working on some additional kind of form factors. And I always think of this as it looks like anyone that remembers Radio Shack, this looks like something I could walk in a radio shack and buy, like, as an opponent. That's what it looks like, and it truly is what it is. And so we haven't spent the money or the time to really come up with this.

Josh Bruni [00:56:00]: This industrial design, that's Apple esque, right? Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:04]: How many do you need? Like, the way I've always thought about it is like one per device or near each device. But, like, if I have, let's say, like, I have this big one in my office. Does this cover the whole average office, or do you, have you guys ever looked in, like, how many you need per area?

Josh Bruni [00:56:19]: Again, that's on the website, too. There's, again, through kind of sophisticated modeling that's all on there to say, okay, what's the effective range? But it does. There's kind of two facts. Proximity, as you know, with EMF, is really the name of the game. So the closer to the source, the smaller this could be. But the smaller it is, the smaller that this field that's being created, this new field that's created is really what we need because that's where the interference occurs. And so we do want that. But look, if, and I know that's not the cheapest product on the planet for EMF protection, but it is, like, true technology we are fighting.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:57]: I forget how much is, like, this necklace cost.

Josh Bruni [00:56:59]: And I forget, too, because we sell ballpark. We ship products at 70 countries every month. And it's. I see all. I see different currencies.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:07]: More than $100.

Josh Bruni [00:57:08]: There's more than $100. The one that goes on your phone is probably around $100. We pretty much are always running a deal. And if they. If they go through your site, they always get a deal and so, or through using your code, they always get a deal. And so we do try to make it affordable and approachable for most. Most people.

Josh Bruni [00:57:22]: But we are talking about a microprocessor. We are talking about silicon, which is gold in today's world. And we are running it on the same machines that every other computer manufacturer is running it on. So it isn't a cheap thing to make this gold immersion technology, which is one of the most conductive materials. And then it's a printed circuit board. I mean, this is a circuit board is really what we're talking about. That's what this is. So this.

Josh Bruni [00:57:45]: Everything here is an electrical component that's made in all the stability facilities that, that your computer is made in.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:50]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [00:57:51]: And so it's not a cheap thing to make.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:53]: What if you made a really big one? Like, what if you made, like, a bed, like one of those, you know, how they have, like, those treatment therapy beds? Would there be any benefit to having, like, a piece of furniture that I could just lounge in at home that was embedded with this technology? I have.

Josh Bruni [00:58:09]: I have my response to that, but I would also be curious about his response to that because he does understand what's happening. We have models of that. We actually have. We actually have large struct pieces of this that can be placed in the building.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:23]: There's at least, like six f enriched biohackers listening in right now who are perking up as you're talking.

Josh Bruni [00:58:28]: Yeah. Let's just say there are structures that have been built with this geometry that we've built.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:35]: Really?

Josh Bruni [00:58:36]: Yeah, in Scandinavia.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:38]: And when you say structures, you mean like.

Josh Bruni [00:58:40]: Like your room? Yeah, yeah. And it really been in one of them. What's that?

Ben Greenfield [00:58:45]: Have you been in one of them?

Josh Bruni [00:58:45]: I have not. I'm hoping to this summer. I'm really curious about it. Yeah, but look, there's a lot of.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:53]: I'm building a house right now. You guys can sponsor a room.

Josh Bruni [00:58:57]: I'd be into that. So I say that because I have a lot of questions. Right, like you would. But the ability to create that feel that he's described and I've described, what is the outcome? So this is the thing. I'm curious what he wants to say that. There's one thing I wanted to say is where we are spending a lot of time as a brand and the company right now is to really understand what's happening at the physiological level. Like, we already know this is doing what it's doing. We aren't really trying to prove that anymore.

Ben Greenfield [00:59:22]: Okay.

Josh Bruni [00:59:22]: Where a lot of companies, I would say, in this space, are really focusing on proving what their product is doing. We haven't been doing that a long time, and because, I don't know, we don't need to. The only reason I would need to is for. To try to convert people. I don't believe I didn't spend a lot of time with those people. And so now what we're trying to understand is what's actually happening at the physiological level, what's happening in the brain, what's happening in the heart, what's happening at the cellular level, what's happening with the proteins. We're doing some research right now. We're about six months into another one that I'm really excited about.

Josh Bruni [00:59:52]: Something happened when we did an EEG scan with Macy Barber, the UFC fighter. She's been an awesome partner. I love her to death. She had a brain hit right before we did this EEG scan with her, and she didn't tell us that she had had that. And so the gentleman, it wasn't Dr. Duggar, it was somebody else who was doing the scan, and he took him like an hour because he kept getting this noise, as he described, like this noise in these results, and he kept thinking it was the cap. He kept straightening it.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:26]: This is why I don't fight.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [01:00:27]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [01:00:28]: And then she says, she's like, oh, I probably should have told you that I had a concussion about 48 hours ago, or whatever it was. And so we had seen in the result, and again, we haven't published, we haven't talked about it, because I don't think it was the best. It's a topic that I would say, hey, I would rather do more research on in a controlled environment than go out publicly and talk about it. But we did go do that research. So we're, again, months into this now, where what we saw was, we saw the brain activity. You could see the region that was lit up. It was inflamed. You saw that in the EEG scanning, you would be able to tell exactly what we were seeing.

Josh Bruni [01:01:02]: I just saw a lot of, like, red hyperactive waves and a bunch of, like, slow-moving waves. And then we saw within just like five minutes of, with the product, you know, the technology near and on the phone, we actually saw this, this effect, this, this blob, this, this inflamed blob was really actually shrinking. And what that means is that hyperactivity was coming down and that slow wave was coming up. And so there was a normalizing effect. And so I took that information. We didn't publish that because I didn't want to.

Ben Greenfield [01:01:31]: What did she do? Wear the necklace?

Josh Bruni [01:01:33]: She had the necklace I think we had on her phone too because she just had one on her phone. And we then I took that information and went to my R and D team, which is in Europe, and told them, hey, here's what I saw. So we've been recreating that now in a controlled environment. And like I said, we're several months in to doing a longer-term study on this with about, I think 24 different subjects. So I'm really fascinated by the results that we're seeing, but we want to get that peer-reviewed. We're going to send out to a bunch of other people that do that. But that's a really interesting area. Like again, we're talking about different things now, like what is actually happening in the body? Where can we apply the technology to humans? But also, like I said, animals, insects, I get really fascinated about that kind of stuff.

Josh Bruni [01:02:09]: But so that's where we're going as a company. Like how do we apply this? How do we do that? So a lot of our research and science is in that direction. I'm not really trying to worry about proving stuff that's working anymore.

Ben Greenfield [01:02:19]: Yeah, I mean, look, the way I think about this is like I was saying earlier, we're not going to stop using these devices for the most part. And I'm very cognizant of my use of technology now. Even like freaking, like Bluetooth on my laptop, like I have that off. And then phones are always in airplane mode unless I need to have them on. There's not a freaking smart appliance anywhere in this home that at least doesn't have the ability to be able to disable Wi-Fi or adjust the frequency output or something like that. Like I'm kind of a fan of the stupid home concept. If you guys try to connect to wifi here, there is none. You have to hardwire using an ethernet cable.

Ben Greenfield [01:02:56]: So I think mitigating exposure as much as you can is smart. But then I'm sure you guys agree with me on this. You pair it with tools like this that when you are using the device actually protect you. Like I tell my audience, don't be an idiot. Like just have your phone in airplane mode if you don't need it on. That's the thing that annoys me the most. When I'm stuck next to somebody.

Josh Bruni [01:03:19]: An airplane, on an airplane, I look.

Ben Greenfield [01:03:20]: Over them and not only is their phone not in airplane mode, so it's just blasting me searching for a signal the whole time. That's the worst. Like, when you don't at least half the people on the plane, plus the Wi-Fi is on, plus their Bluetooth, and they're not even using their phone. It's just sitting on a little cup holder beside me.

Josh Bruni [01:03:39]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [01:03:40]: And so that's the message I like to get out, is, like, mitigate your use of the technology and don't have it off. It doesn't need to be on. But then when it is on, I think stuff like this, I mean, I like, again, like mine is, is a fully subjective experience. It's all anecdotal, I'll admit. But I've been using your devices for what, like a year or so? About a year, yeah. And I like them. I actually was really excited about having this conversation just cause I get so many questions about the placebo thing and the study thing and how does it work if it's not reducing the field strength. You know, all these things that have come up. But this has been really helpful for me to learn a little bit more.

Josh Bruni [01:04:15]: Yeah. And I would say, like, you know, Dr. Dogris, the work, I'm excited because, you know, I'm hoping to engage him, his teams and the stuff, the work that they're doing to do, really, like, where can we apply it? Because he gets to see he's exposed to so many things. The work that his company does, I get more and more excited about as I learn more about what they're doing with EMF and EEG. And like he mentioned, like, the ability to the cranial stimulation, all the things that they're doing. Like, I'm very fascinated by that. Right. And the fact that the body is electric, like, what is that? The average person doesn't even think about that. And so we think about it interacting with these other electrical circuits.

Ben Greenfield [01:04:53]: Right. What they don't think about till they get AFib and 100% feels really medical.

Josh Bruni [01:05:00]: Before somebody opens their eyes up to it. But one of your questions we had talked about before, before we started recording was like, how did I get into it? And I read the body's electric.

Ben Greenfield [01:05:11]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [01:05:12]: Robert Becker from when I was really young.

Ben Greenfield [01:05:14]: That's right up there with Herry Tennant's book, Healing Is Voltage. Two great books.

Josh Bruni [01:05:18]: But I was a kid when I read that, and I don't remember. It was just, it was something that I didn't understand just from the title. And so I'm like, I'm curious about this. And so it's always stuck with me, and I've continued to be interested in anything related to the idea that the body's electric.

Ben Greenfield [01:05:31]: Yeah.

Josh Bruni [01:05:32]: And so that was my first thing. And then my wife, who is always the smart one in the relationship, was always trying to reduce our exposure to emF. And no matter what, the Internet's where I've made my living. And so for me, I'm like, the Internet was everything. So there's always a little bit of friction in the house of, like, wi-fi, and I want the latest and greatest. And so she was always really good about that. So I was like, okay, I'll support as much as I possibly can. And so then when Aires came up on my radar, it was the Drew Green, who's the CEO of Indochino, the menswear company.

Josh Bruni [01:06:03]: He's the chairman of the board of Aires, and he contacted me about another role at one of his investment companies, and it just wasn't interesting. It was a CPG company with a celebrity. I just wasn't interested. I had been doing a lot of work already with other uninteresting things, and then he called me back, like, hey, I don't know if you know anything about EMF, but take a look at this company. Let me just. What do you think? So I looked at it, and I spent a long time with my average human brain to try to understand all the science. And I contacted as many people as I possibly could to help me understand it.

Josh Bruni [01:06:31]: And it got to that point where I was like, I just want to understand the math. That's what I go back to. For me, math is kind of a safe place for me, because I understand it. I'm comfortable with it, and I recognize the reason why I was always good at math. So I understood that was black and white. I could prove my own answers when I'm taking my SATs, whatever. I could check my work. It was really easy.

Josh Bruni [01:06:50]: So I really got to the point where I was like. Like, I just want to check the math, help me understand the math. So I sought out people who helped me understand the math, and that was a long process. And then I got really comfortable with it. And the more that I've been around it, the more work we've done, the more fascinated I am. But I think the biggest thing that jumps out to me is young people. I think young people, talk a lot about the emotional and psychological effects of the phone and social media and things like that, but we don't spend any time talking about this EMF. And I'd love to hear what Dogris has to say about that, and maybe what you have to say about that, but the idea of this developing organism that isn't fully developed, it is not defending itself.

Josh Bruni [01:07:24]: Rapidly dividing cells, rapidly dividing cells, they're extremely vulnerable. And I don't think we do enough as parents. We do the best we can. We know how hard it is right now to be parents, but that is one area that's, like, we should be better at because there are so many environmental stressors that we've introduced into our world in the cell phone being one that started with just to tag into.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [01:07:47]: That is, you know, the body has an inherent wisdom to it. It is the best doctor in the room, and if you do things to get in the way of that, you're going to prevent yourself from being healthy in the way that you should be and can be. And so, you know, when you have something like this to help mitigate some of these hostile forces around you, allow the body to do what it can do. Yeah, I think you're in the best shape possible.

Ben Greenfield [01:08:12]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Nicholas Dogris [01:08:14]: You know.

Ben Greenfield [01:08:15]: Well, guys, this has been an incredible conversation. I've actually learned a ton. I get to ask all my stupid questions. Anything else you want to share? Just.

Josh Bruni [01:08:23]: Well, like I said, I would say. The only thing I would just say is, like, look, we're always willing to have discussions with people. We try to keep it as productive as possible. I do recommend people check out the website. From the study standpoint, I have been a huge proponent, and he's seen me do this now a bunch where I'm like, with all the AI tools we have, you can take all of our studies, dump them into OpenAI to chat GPT, ask it to summarize it, pressure test it, and chat GPT will tell you that the science is sound, it'll tell you that the science works. It's not going to say that EMFs are harmful, but it will tell you, like, yes, superposition interference. The. The silicon resonator does.

Josh Bruni [01:09:06]: It will tell you it. You can take all 40 plus 48 studies are on the website right now, and we have a lot more that we will translate and put them on there, but a lot more on there. You can dump it all in there, have it aggregate it all for you, and spit out a summary. And there's no other company in this space that can say that. Yeah, you can't take because everyone else is black box. We are. We are 100% open.

Ben Greenfield [01:09:27]: Yeah. I didn't know that.

Josh Bruni [01:09:28]: Yeah. So you can take our patent that tells you how it's made, are design patents. You can take these EEG studies, the EKGs, you can take all of that, dump it in there. You can take our method and dump it all in there, and it'll spit out a result that says its coherence, it's super position, it's destructive or constructive interference. I tell you all of it. Tell you how it all works.

Ben Greenfield [01:09:50]: Yeah. So you've got prompting skills.

Josh Bruni [01:09:52]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [01:09:54]: That's the best, best skill now nowadays with AI is if you don't want to be replaceable, learn how to prompt show notes. I will link for those of you listening in to all of these studies, I'll link to the AiresTech website and the products and your guys's channels. If people want to learn more about you, Nick, or you, Josh, or check out some of, what's called NeuroField, NeuroField products, because I think those look pretty sexy, too. BenGreenfieldlife.com/emfpod, BenGreenfieldlife.com/emfpod like podcast questions, comments, feedback. I know that many of you listening in, have additional questions, maybe something I forgot to ask your own thing to pipe in on, skepticism. I hear that sometimes. But honestly, this is an open discussion. So go to BenGreenfieldlife.com/emfpod.

Ben Greenfield [01:10:41]: Try one of these devices out for yourself. I think you guys have some kind of like a guarantee or something along those lines. People get it.

Josh Bruni [01:10:48]: Yeah. And I'm sure in the show notes we'll put some sort of promotion or discount in there for them, too.

Ben Greenfield [01:10:53]: Yeah, I've always got something like that floating around. Just try Ben10. That usually works. So go to BenGreenfieldlife.com/emfpod. Check it out. AiresTech Josh, and Nick, thank you guys so much.

Josh Bruni [01:11:04]: Thank you.

Ben Greenfield [01:11:05]: It's been incredible.

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