Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: Ben Greenfield. And on this episode of the Boundless Life podcast, let's start here. Let's start with this box. Like I mentioned, if you get a half cow or old cow from Manzo, you get to, like, get your own custom box. All right. Do you know what's in here, by the way? No. Okay, so Phil's. Phil's just like.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:15]: I mean, I can probably identify on the fly. All right, here we go. This is like Christmas for carnivores. Yeah. Okay, so let's open this one up. Welcome to the Boundless Life with me.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:27]: Your host, Ben Greenfield.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:29]: I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond. So one of the, I would say the more popular podcast, at least amongst the foodies that listen to this show over the past few months, was when I interviewed this guy named Justin Owens, and he's got this Piedmontese cattle operation. We talked all about the fascinating history of this cattle and the weird aspects of the meat, like the high collagen content and the tenderness. And I actually had the opportunity, after interviewing him, to try some of the states that he sent my way. And long story short, even though I want to hear your take on this whole Piedmontese cow thing is that me and my family got a whole cow. Okay. And. And that's, you know, we have this box sitting in front of us, like Justin and I talked about when I interviewed him.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:32]: You get this, like, this custom box we had actually designed, like the outside of our house with this cool, like, charred black exterior. And even though there's not an entire cow in our kitchen right now. Right. So I was only. Justin and I talked about. I was like, if you get the cow, store some of it.

Phil Bass [00:01:48]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:48]: Ship as you go, which is great. So I'd have to buy an extra freezer. Yeah. But, you know, we got to talking after I. I decided to get this cow, and he's like, dude, like, we have all sorts of crazy cuts that nobody's ever heard of. And there's this guy named Phil Bass who is in the animal sciences department at University of Idaho, who, correct me if I'm wrong, because you are Phil.

Phil Bass [00:02:14]: By the way, guys, I am.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:16]: Got sent over to Italy to train in these, like, weird Italian butchery techniques. And so we thought, heck, let's do like a follow up podcast and learn about. For people who want to know about different cuts of meat they might not have heard of before and maybe get some. Some cooking Tips and tactics to be able to do so. So if you're watching, listening to this episode, first of all, that first one that I did with Justin is at BenGreenfieldLife.com/ BeefPodcast. BenGreenfieldLife.com/ Beef Podcast and, and then all the show notes for this show that we're about to dive into, that'[email protected]/ eatmeat. BenGreenfieldLife.com/ eatmeat. Yeah, we're, we're, love it. We're not, we're not getting any new plant based listeners with this episode series. And then as far as like these, these actual cows go, like, if you're listening and you want to try some of this meat for yourself, you get half cow. You can get whole cow if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/ Manzo. M A N Z O.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:13]: Oh, in the show notes for the show, I'll put some fat discount codes for you. And then you could also opt to just like order a few steaks and try it from that same website if you want to. But anyway, so Phil, I know you're from Northern Cal. I know you're working in animal sciences department at University of Idaho now, but what got you interested in this whole scene of, well, cows and cattle?

Phil Bass [00:03:34]: Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, how much time you got? So, I mean, I grew up around cattle.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:40]: Well, I don't have a lot of time, by the way, because we're surrounded by meat and I'm just getting patient.

Phil Bass [00:03:44]: I hear you.

Phil Bass [00:03:46]: No, it's, it's a passion of mine. Met Justin at a Washington cattleman's convention. Little, small, little operation. But I was doing a cutting demonstration and he, he found some of the things that I was doing interesting. So we visited a little bit. He told me about his Piedmontese. I knew very little about this breed. I'd heard about it.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:04]: Yeah. All right.

Phil Bass [00:04:04]: And I showcase a little about their unique characteristics in my class, but never really experienced them. So. So we parted, we parted paths that day and sheepishly he calls me up one day in January. I remember this and said, I don't know if you'd be interested, but maybe would it be possibly go to Italy and hang out with some butchers.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:32]: Everybody get asked and I'm like, says no, no, I mean, right?

Phil Bass [00:04:38]: Yeah. So it's kind of like a dream come true. Honestly, I tell people that all the time. Like, my dream is just travel the world and hang out with other butch because there's always something to learn. So I did. We went over with other, a few other breeders with Piedmontese cattle and got some tours of a number of different farms for one week. And then the second week I hung out with butchers, which was, it was fascinating. It was amazing.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:59]: So, I mean, I've been to Italy and I've eaten those Florentine steaks which are just like this massive. I don't know, they're like, usually, canine.

Phil Bass [00:05:07]: Kenana. Yeah, yeah. yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:07]: What's the breed? It's a Kenana. We stayed at farms.

Phil Bass [00:05:12]: Giant white cows.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:13]: Yeah, they were big, kind of like these, these Piedmontese guys. And the, the meat was incredible. But I didn't know there was like a certain style of butchering that they do in Italy. So why would you go all the way to Italy? Well, that's special about that.

Phil Bass [00:05:26]: Honestly, that's what we were trying to figure out is how much different is it and how can we take what they're doing and bring it back to the States to make sure that we're treating the meat the best it can be in its kind of unique way. And so the Piedmontese cattle are double muscled.

Phil Bass [00:05:42]: You went into that with Justin, so folks can go and look at that episode. But they are a unique animal. And the first time I got to cut one, I was, I was absolutely astonished and amazed. There's almost no fat on the outside of the carcass. You can see every single bulging muscle on, on the carcass. It's. It's a beautiful thing to, to look at. And then putting a knife to it, it was, it was, it was very unique.

Phil Bass [00:06:07]: And so, so conventional meat cutting here in the United States historically has been, take it to a saw and just start cutting across chunks. Okay. European butchery is very much seam butchery. And so you're following the individual muscle seams. And so we've been adopting that in the, in the States to an extent. But that was the opportunity that I got to learn from.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:31]: So when you say following individual muscle seams. I don't talk about this much on the podcast. This is gross. I'm sorry. But I used to dissect human cadavers at University of Idaho. So again, get these cadavers shipped in usually from University of Washington. And my job was to go in via the fascial line, separate all the muscles, put a little almost like zip tie tags on the students to come in and learn what the semi tendrinosis, some nembronosis, stern, all these fringe Latin names. So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that what you learned was Kind of like a finesse style of like separating the fascia and, and separating out each individual muscle.

Phil Bass [00:07:06]: Individual muscles? Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:07:07]: And.

Phil Bass [00:07:07]: And cool thing about these Piedmontese cattle is the muscles are so big and so you can make a specific item just from that individual muscle. And so we're starting to do that with conventional cattle in the United States, but it's not quite as adopted as definitely what's happening in Europe right now.

Ben Greenfield [00:07:24]: Creating a specific item from an individual muscle. Yeah, we mean by that.

Phil Bass [00:07:29]: Okay, so there's one specific chunk that so out of, out of the. What would be the equivalent of our forearm but the fore shank on the beef animal, they're pulling some of those individual muscles out of there. And honestly I don't even know all of those muscles. There's quite a few. But they'll pull those individual pieces out in many cases will skin that, but not always because sometimes you want that collagen on there, you get that gelatinization that you slow cook those, right? Yeah, but it's called muscolo and so it's literally just muscle that they call it. I mean the Italians just call it what it is in many cases.

Phil Bass [00:08:01]: So, but the muscolo, you will individually piece those pieces out, whereas in the United States oftentimes we would make a cross cut. So you have cross cuts, shanks, if you've ever heard of ossobuco, literally a bone with a hole in it, but that's across the grain. You get a lot more, you get a lot more other muscles in there. Now it's an individual muscle and so you're going to have a very consistent bite all the way through. You're going to have. It's great, it's a great eating experience and it's a slow cooked as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:34]: Yeah. So I got my average cow that is butchered using like our standard sloppy ass chainsaw American techniques. And then we got our Italian butchering techniques. How much time are we talking as far as the difference in time to butcher a cow using this method, you know, versus standard American method.

Phil Bass [00:08:54]: Surprisingly, it's not that much more time if we do cross cut with a band saw in the, in the more traditional American style? Yeah, it's quick to go across the bandsaw, but then you have to sit and scrape the little bit of what we call bone dust off there. Okay. And so, so if you don't take that off, you have color issues and things like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:13]: I won't get into the science of the calcium.

Phil Bass [00:09:15]: No. Well, you're going to still get plenty There, there's still plenty of mineral in there, but no, you scrape that off for color and, and appearance. So yeah, you make the piece quickly on the bandsaw, but then there's other preparation that goes into it. And anytime you have that bone in that item too, usually there's additional packaging requirements to make sure that you don't puncture through the bags and things like that. Whereas this muscalo, I mean, it's, it's just soft muscle tissue.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:41]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:09:42]: Very easy to package, very easy to present. And then I remember it distinctly hanging out with this one set of butchers and I can't remember the tiny little town that we were in, but they had me seaming out that, that foreshank area. And then you just had the little nanas coming in off the street. She comes in, she gets her tiny little bit of muscalo, she's going to take it home, she's going to bolito that, to boil it.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:04]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:10:05]: And have it with her cat or whatever grandchildren or whoever's coming over that day. And it's just kind of an everyday occurrence that they have that, that, that nice little package of meat right off the animal. I mean, it's, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:19]: So one of the things that came up when I was interviewing Justin I just found fascinating was I think he said that the, the actual fiable, like the muscle fibers are like 1/16 the diameter of what you'd find in, in like a non piedmontese.

Phil Bass [00:10:33]: Yes. Yeah, much smaller. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:35]: What's that? Like, can you feel that? Like, is it more tender, like the feel of the muscle?

Phil Bass [00:10:39]: Yeah, I, I think you can detect some of the texture that's there, especially when you get into say your middle meats, your ribeyes, your strip loins, tenderloins, that kind of stuff when you get into, in. I mean. Yeah, it's a much smaller fiber diameter and what that does is it makes it just easier to bite through. So in your steaks that you're grilling, you don't have to cook them very much. And in fact, we don't recommend cooking them very much because there's not a whole lot of fat in there. You don't want to, you don't want to dehydrate it, but they're super tender as a result.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:07]: I didn't believe Justin when he told me to pull, I think he told me to pull it like 95 or something like that for a steak and let it run normally. I'd pull it like, like in the 130s and sure. Minimum for like a medium rare.

Phil Bass [00:11:19]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:19]: Yeah. And so the first two times I cooked with these steaks that he sent me, I went over. It wasn't bad, but it's certainly like, have a medium.

Phil Bass [00:11:26]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:27]: I think my. I did the same thing two weeks ago. She pulled out a few, and the boys and I were gone. I forget where. We came home and of course, was wonderful because the house smelled great. She had these steaks ready, and she's like, I pulled them in 95. I'm like, all right, let's see what this is like. And, dude, it's shocking.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:43]: Just like, I think a lot of people think, oh, like food poisoning or something like that, pulling at that temperature. But you don't have to worry about anything like that.

Phil Bass [00:11:49]: Not. Not with whole muscle items, honestly. And if you're doing everything right, you should not be that concerned about. About pathogens.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:58]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:11:58]: Especially in. It's inspected me. It's coming from a, a legit plant. I go there regularly. The guys do a great job.

Ben Greenfield [00:12:05]: Is it true that. And I think this might have been something else that Justin told me that because of the texture of the muscle, that you could take like a cut that would traditionally be kind of more tough, maybe more like a stew. And it still has the tenderness of what, say, like filet mignon.

Phil Bass [00:12:23]: You know, that's what I'm still learning about. And that's what I want to. That's what's blown me away with this animal and how little I've known about them in the past. I want to. I want to experience that even more. And so the way that the Italians would prepare this in. In the little butcher shops in towns is that very often was eaten raw. I ate a ton of raw beef when I was in Italy because that's just how they like tartare carpaccio.

Phil Bass [00:12:51]: Yeah, the. The. The. The tartare would be out there just waiting for you when you sit down in this region of the. Of the popular item. And. Oh, yeah, it's beautiful.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:01]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:13:01]: I mean, I'll just. I'll just eat it on with a spoon if you give it to me, so.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:05]: Shut up. It's not dinner time. Sorry. I've had dinner.

Phil Bass [00:13:07]: And then. Yeah, and then. And then. Yeah. A lot of the round switch are all the time been going to be considered a less tender piece of meat. We're super tender eating in that raw state, so.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:20]: Interesting. And then the other thing. And by the way, for those of you who are watching, I highly recommend you watch the video for this episode again, the show notes are @Ben Greenfield, LIFE.com/ Eat meat. In the video, we're going to be showing some of the cuts that actually, I haven't even really dug through these boxes. I don't know what's in this is going to be like, you know, I don't either. Said earlier it's like the Mary Poppins mystery box comes out. Yeah. But one of the things that Justin mentioned when I talked with him was.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:48]: And for some reason this just stuck with me. And I gotta ask you about. He said there's like some cut cold something like Thor's hammer.

Phil Bass [00:13:55]: Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:55]: What is that one?

Phil Bass [00:13:56]: Well, that's, that's another different way of eating the eating the shank. And so you can make it out of the hind shank, which would be kind of more the calf area or, or the fore shank. And that's, that's where you, you, you do what's called frenching. So if you're familiar with culinary term, the frenching is where you clean off a section of bone. And so you'll have the entirety of.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:16]: Just putting like two sticks and butter and everything.

Phil Bass [00:14:20]: That too.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:21]: It's not a bad idea.

Phil Bass [00:14:23]: But in the butcher term. So frenching is where you, where you, you clean off a piece of bone. So you get that, you get the appearance. And, and it's, it presents amazingly well. And so it's. Again, it's, it's. You get a lot of those additional different muscles, but then it stands up, you know, so, so tall on the plate.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:41]: Wow. And that's just like, like a big old hole piece of shank. Almost like you get like a lamb shank.

Phil Bass [00:14:45]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:46]: Yes. Is a cow.

Phil Bass [00:14:48]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:48]: Wow.

Phil Bass [00:14:48]: Yeah. Hope you're hungry.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:50]: Wow. Incredible. Okay. Awesome. All right, so we've had these things sitting here staring us in the face. Sure. Wow. I got a big cooler.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:57]: You probably can't see this in the video. We got a big yeti behind us with some extras. But let's start here. Let's start with this box. Like I mentioned, if you get a half cow or whole cow from Manzo, you get to, like, get your own custom box. And these are pretty cool. I mean, if you heard my interview with Justin, I'm shipping these things out to, like, celebrities and pro athletes. And, like, it's a.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:15]: It's a very, very kind of like prized beef to get your hands on. So goes together like that. That's the lock for the box. All right. Do you know what's in here, by the way? No. Okay, so Phil's. Phil's just like. I mean, I could probably identify on the fly.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:30]: All right, here we go. So that's awesome. So I mean, look at what they did here, you guys. I mean, talk about like a gift for somebody or for yourself. They even got like me very self conscious. I feel narcissistic now opening this box. It's got my logo on there. It's got like me running through a field.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:49]: And then we've got these bags like this. There's anything special about these bags? These are just old cool bags. Okay, so let's see what we got in here. And I'm just going to start putting you on the spot. Sure, Phil. Now when these are shipped, obviously you get them shipped frozen to your house. And I am assuming, and I don't know if you know the answer to this question, Phil, I think I had talked with Justin about this, but I think you can like somehow dialogue with Manzo and tell them, hey, I want this, this and this shit. Let's say you're throwing a dinner party or whatever and they'll just like send whatever cuts that you want.

Phil Bass [00:16:23]: Yes, exactly. If you get, if you get a whole half or, or a whole animal. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:28]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:16:29]: What you need?

Ben Greenfield [00:16:30]: Cool. All right, so first thing coming out of the bed, this is ground beef. What's trita mean? You know, Trita and Scammon. Trita and Scamoni and Molo di Panchilla. All right, tell me about these. We got a, this one's Bavette baseball top sirloin and two different ground beef that says treata on it. Tell me about these.

Phil Bass [00:16:56]: So, so, so trita is just ground ground beef in Italian. And, and we made sure that we did put marry up all of the Italian names with the American.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:06]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:17:06]: Equivalents. Yeah, it is kind of cool.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:08]: I mean, if anything, it just makes you sound sophisticated.

Phil Bass [00:17:11]: Well, very much so. So, yes, Camone. That's, that's top sirloin. And again, they would take that many places. Say you go to a, a, a lot of grocery stores, they still cut whole brontosaurus size stock top sirloin.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:26]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:17:26]: This is an individual portioned item. And we take it down to the individual muscle and then even within the individual muscle, you have certain seams of connective tissue. Well, we don't want you to hit some of that. We want you to be able to experience nothing but pure joy with this. And so we, we work with the butchers to make sure they're cleaning that thing really, really well.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:48]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:17:48]: Okay, so top sirloin is baseball butter. Oh, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:52]: What's baseball mean on top?

Phil Bass [00:17:53]: Baseball top sirloin is just literally the size it ends up with. Yeah. If I had a whole top sirloin line, I could walk the whole thing through you.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:59]: But, yeah, okay.

Phil Bass [00:17:59]: Yeah, baseball top.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:00]: Awesome. There might be. So bavet mala di tanchia. What's this one?

Phil Bass [00:18:04]: Mola de pancha. Mole de pancha means bounce of the belly.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:07]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:18:08]: And it literally is. It's the. It's the oblique obliquis abdominis internus muscle. So one of your oblique muscles.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:15]: Yeah. Russian twists and cable. Torso poles tend to develop. Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:18:21]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:21]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:18:23]: I'm sure I use mine at times, so. So the Bavette, a beautiful piece of meat, honestly. So bavette is. Is. Is French. And bavette means bib in French. I learned about this cut, actually, when I was traveling around in Canada in the province of Quebec. That's their go to.

Phil Bass [00:18:42]: Well, it turns out we can also make it in the Italian style here as well. And so think about the bavette is. Look carefully at the grain. And so you'll go ahead and grill this thing to your required degree of doneness, but then also make sure you cut against the grain. Okay. Yeah. Otherwise, you know, it's very, very tender.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:01]: These answers.

Phil Bass [00:19:02]: Okay. But let's give it the absolute benefit of the doubt and slice it against the venue.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:07]: That's pretty much the rule with all cuts. Yes. That against the grinding?

Phil Bass [00:19:10]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:11]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:19:11]: For the most part.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:11]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Phil Bass [00:19:12]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:13]: All right. By the way, I just gotta ask you, as we're going through this, are you, like, if you get your hands on a steak, what's your favorite way. Are you, like, a reverse sear guy? You like a smoker?

Phil Bass [00:19:22]: Oh, no, I'm not too fancy.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:24]: Just go main fire.

Phil Bass [00:19:26]: Yeah, fair enough. Maiden fire salt. Fair enough.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:30]: I feel like sometimes I gotta be super fancy. Okay. And then ground beef. You're just using this for, like, burger.

Phil Bass [00:19:34]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:34]: Or is there something special about this?

Phil Bass [00:19:36]: Absolutely. But if you want to truly experience this, like the Italians.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:40]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:19:41]: Try this as tartar.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:43]: As tartar.

Phil Bass [00:19:43]: Yeah. And. And a little bit of. Of sea salt, like a coarser sea salt. Maldon salt. I love maldon salt. Over the top and just drizzle some olive oil and.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:53]: Okay. So if I step in the freezer.

Phil Bass [00:19:55]: Yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:56]: Let's just see. My wife's out of town right now at a tennis tour. I'm in, but I'm pretty sure that this. In the freezer. She said tartar, right?

Phil Bass [00:20:10]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:10]: So periodically. I'm just saying that if we take one of my wife's hobbies, which is making big old cannonball style loaves. Sourdough bread. Yeah. You're saying thin slice, that little baby, like, what do you call it? The. Like a crudet style or. Crostini.

Phil Bass [00:20:32]: Crostini, yep.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:33]: Throw some of that on there.

Phil Bass [00:20:35]: Yep, yep.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:36]: Raw chicken eggs in the middle, if you're into that.

Phil Bass [00:20:39]: Yeah. My preference. So I would take this, about half of that and kind of almost molded into just a little bit of a hockey puck kind of size. Go ahead and salt it. A little bit of your olive oil over there and just a lot of scoop with thin slice.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:55]: Incredible.

Phil Bass [00:20:56]: Yeah, incredible. Can I. Can I tell you about how excited I am of this? Oh, tell me. Okay, so I think I was excited. So I'll tell you. Like, first time I tried this particular one and I. A lot of tartar steak tartar in. In Italy, in the Piedmont.

Phil Bass [00:21:14]: And I'm not saying this because we're on camera. I tell everybody this, this beef was different. Yes. And I strongly believe it has a lot to do with what Justin's. Justin. The rations that they're feeding them. And so they're getting into some. Some regional grains that are up here in the northwest, and peas and the lentils and you can taste it.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:34]: Is there wine?

Phil Bass [00:21:36]: Oh, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:36]: Great.

Phil Bass [00:21:36]: Pumice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. It's there and it's. It's super tasty.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:41]: Wow. Smells like wine. You know, the terrar effect, the terroir.

Phil Bass [00:21:45]: Right? Yeah, it's almost like. Well, and that's not. That's not terribly surprising. It's just that I haven't had a chance to experience beef that's been raised like that. This is different. And I. I probably wouldn't say it if we had some of the native Italians in the room, but this was better than what I had in Italy.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:03]: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Okay. This is like Christmas for carnivores.

Phil Bass [00:22:07]: So.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:07]: Yeah. Okay, so let's open this one up. And again, like, Phil and I didn't talk beforehand, so I'm literally just putting them on the spot.

Phil Bass [00:22:16]: We didn't even know how to open the box.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:18]: Yeah, we obviously didn't even know how to open the box. Okay, so this one. Now let me have to write a new cookbook. I'll just hire you. Okay, so next we got a beef boneless shank meat, a beef oyster steak and a T bone. Oh, this is the one I was talking about. Quarantine steak.

Phil Bass [00:22:44]: Yep.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:44]: Size of that thing.

Phil Bass [00:22:45]: Big old hunker.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:46]: Geez, what is that, like a 24 ounce here? Probably more.

Phil Bass [00:22:49]: Yeah, probably more than that.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:50]: Yeah, it's hot. All right, so what do we got here?

Phil Bass [00:22:52]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:52]: All right, I'm gonna clean as we go, just so you don't have too much of a. Of a meat mess on the counter as we go.

Phil Bass [00:22:57]: Okay, so. So I'll start with the oyster steak. So we haven't. We haven't gotten the. The Italian name on here, but this would be the Aranya. So the Aranya is. Is. Is spider.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:07]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:23:08]: So that is something that's starting to pop up in certain culinary areas in North America. It's well known in Europe. Okay, so. So great growing right on the grill. It's kind of like a skirt steak. And this comes right out of. So this is the. The obturator muscle, so right on the inside of that hip and we scoop it out.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:27]: And that's one that I hate when my massage. The spine's.

Phil Bass [00:23:30]: They can get to it.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:31]: Yeah, yeah.

Phil Bass [00:23:33]: Right. So. So actually I, you know, the first time I experienced one of these, I thought that's. That thing's going to be like shoe leather. But especially with this, it's.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:42]: It's amazing because that thing's basically contracting every single time an animal takes a step. Yeah, yeah, but it.

Phil Bass [00:23:47]: But it's not that tough, really. Yeah, it's amazing. So this would be one I'd probably still recommend going into kind of like a fajita kind of thing or a pita or something if you're. If you're going more. The tacos. Yeah, tacos for sure. Great piece of meat. Okay.

Phil Bass [00:24:04]: Beef boneless shank meat. Again, we don't have the new. The new Italian name on here, but this is the muscolo.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:10]: But you said muscolo, like muscle, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phil Bass [00:24:15]: Okay. So this is right out of the shank. You can see we cleaned a lot of the connective tissue off the outside. We can leave that on if you want more of that gelatinized collagen as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:26]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:24:27]: There's collagen all throughout from a science perspective, but you can get even more if we leave that on there. And it really is a beautiful mouthfeel. Some people want it, some people don't. We're starting out with just the really cleaned version, but, you know, if folks are asking for more of that gelatinized collagen.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:43]: Yeah, we can leave that on there. Okay. Okay. So that's what the, like, what the muscolo looks like was. We're talking about how you're just like taking as a whole item. Just like cutting with the saw.

Phil Bass [00:24:51]: All right.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:52]: Right through the shank.

Phil Bass [00:24:53]: Yep.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:53]: Okay, cool.

Phil Bass [00:24:54]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:54]: So we have the oyster. The oyster steak.

Phil Bass [00:24:57]: Yep.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:57]: The shank. And then this big boy. I mean, everybody knows what a T bone is.

Phil Bass [00:25:01]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:02]: Anything special about these T bones? Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:25:04]: Turn this thing over. Okay, so T bone. T bone has two main cuts on there that. That maybe not everybody understands. So this is lumbar vertebrae right here.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:12]: Yep.

Phil Bass [00:25:13]: Lumbar vertebrae, transverse process. This would be pointing up dorsally, ventrally.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:18]: Yep. So if you were, like, looking at my back, this would basically be just like.

Phil Bass [00:25:22]: Yeah, just like that. Yep, yep. Okay, so this is the longismus dorsi muscle. So that's your classic rib eye strip loin kind of thing. Okay. Runs long and dorsally. That's the tenderloin.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:34]: Oh, wow.

Phil Bass [00:25:35]: Look at the size of that thing.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:36]: That's massive.

Phil Bass [00:25:37]: First time I saw. I just. I did. I didn't know what to say initially. I'm not that lost for words.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:42]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:25:43]: So, yeah, you get a lot of tenderloin off one of these.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:46]: That's incredible. Yeah, yeah. So the T bone kind of is almost like two different steaks in one.

Phil Bass [00:25:50]: It is. It is two different steaks in one, but in, you know, in the classic Fiorentina style, I mean, you can serve it almost like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:57]: Yeah. Incredible. Sorry, another. Another random question for you. You're eating out of the restaurant or, I suppose, at home. Are you the guy that gets the bone? Like you.

Phil Bass [00:26:06]: Oh, definitely. Oh, I have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:09]: Arm wrestles at the steakhouse.

Phil Bass [00:26:11]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:11]: Like, if there's a tomahawk out there. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Phil Bass [00:26:13]: Oh, yeah. Definitely rib bones.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:15]: I will take one for the team and eat none of the meat. As long as I can get just the tomahawk bone, I'm good. Yeah, yeah. There's something special about that right there.

Phil Bass [00:26:22]: Yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:23]: All right, cool. Cooler time, you guys. We got more. Don't go away yet. There's more. So we got a cooler here, and I'm just going to start pulling stuff out. Look at this. Scaramella.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:35]: Short ribs. Short ribs. What do you like about these?

Phil Bass [00:26:40]: So a couple things I liked about the short ribs. Normally, you're going to go ahead and braise these. Definitely. Definitely going to have a lot more connective tissue that you need to break that down.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:49]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:26:50]: The presentation is amazing. The bone itself, like, this is a brontosaurus style. Like, we can actually. We can cut a much smaller. Depending on what your options are, this would be one.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:01]: That you have one of Those big Dutch ovens.

Phil Bass [00:27:03]: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:04]: You would basically maybe brown now a little bit of flour and then add your, your aromatics and everything. Bay leaves, carrots, onions. And just do like long roast.

Phil Bass [00:27:15]: Absolutely. Or, or you do some kind of seasoning overnight and go to a smoker with this too.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:21]: Oh, incredible.

Phil Bass [00:27:22]: Yeah, so very versatile.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:24]: Get some work.

Phil Bass [00:27:25]: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So lots of great meat in that thing. I, Yeah, I love short.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:30]: Amazing. Wow, those are big short. I mean. Yeah, those are massive.

Phil Bass [00:27:33]: They're not very short short ribs. Yeah, they have been short.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:37]: Those short ribs are playing in the NBA. All right. Top round, top round Facea Milanese face.

Phil Bass [00:27:46]: So, so Facea is the cut. So this is, this is predominantly semi membranosis and adductor.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:54]: Yeah. Okay. So basically hamstring a little bit of the inner thigh.

Phil Bass [00:27:57]: Inner thigh. Inner thigh, yep. And then the recommendation. This was the recommendation. Cut it to Milanese. So Milanese. So where we are, where we were in the, in the Piedmont, you know. Yes.

Phil Bass [00:28:07]: You have the history of the, the kings of, of the Savoys living up in that area, but there's still a lot of just blue collar peasant type food. And when you go and sit down at a lot of the little cafes and restaurants, Milanese is very, very popular. And really it's. It's like chicken fried steak, but just a fancy chicken fried steak. Yeah, yeah. So you, so you're going to slice some nice thin pieces. You can pound it. You don't have to because this is super tender.

Phil Bass [00:28:39]: And then bread it and fry it.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:40]: Incredible.

Phil Bass [00:28:41]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:41]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:28:42]: Nice bread crumbs.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:43]: And yeah. Actually shout out to. There's an Italian restaurant. Have you been to a Sorella up in Spokane?

Phil Bass [00:28:48]: No, no.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:49]: So I've got. They're pretty good. They aren't super new. They're probably there for two years now. It's kind of hard to get in. You like call four weeks ahead. Okay. Everybody's watching.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:55]: Go to Spokane. Call ahead.

Phil Bass [00:28:57]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:57]: Get into Sorella and they do a. I think it's, it's a Milanese style.

Phil Bass [00:29:01]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:03]: You know what? I think up there it might be veal.

Phil Bass [00:29:05]: But yeah, very common to have veal as well. But where we were in the Piedmont, they.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:09]: So, so this one I'd go against the grain.

Phil Bass [00:29:12]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:12]: And then I could pound it and then just do it the same way I do almost like a. Like a.

Phil Bass [00:29:19]: Not a Parmesan. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:21]: Kind of like, like, like.

Phil Bass [00:29:23]: Yeah, yeah. Like a veal parmesan, chicken Parmesan.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:25]: Kind of thing.

Phil Bass [00:29:26]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:26]: Cool.

Phil Bass [00:29:27]: So other thing I have to tell you about this though too. Is that in the Italian butcher shops, this was a main go to as well. Because do that again just like near the key. Okay. And I can still flip it.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:42]: Yes.

Phil Bass [00:29:42]: Okay. All right. I gotta tell you one other cool thing about this is that in the Italian butcher shops, this was a main go to for a lot of. A lot of the customers because beyond the Milanese style, so that's cutting it to maybe a quarter, half inch thick. This is where you'd go. Carpaccio right here.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:00]: Oh, and man, super.

Phil Bass [00:30:03]: This will change your life. This meat, especially right here, will change your life.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:06]: Really? So against the grain better than it is carpaccio style.

Phil Bass [00:30:09]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:10]: Amazing.

Phil Bass [00:30:10]: Yeah. Slice it thin against the grain. Go.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:12]: Nice. Well, you know, I. I forget if I fully filled my wife in about what we were. She's off playing tennis.

Phil Bass [00:30:19]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:20]: But basically I'm going to totally wow her. She's gonna come back. How'd you even know what to do with this one? I mean, I even say you were here. No, that's fine, babe. I've been studying the Italians.

Phil Bass [00:30:29]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:32]: Oh, man, you're making a happily married, man. So eye of round.

Phil Bass [00:30:36]: Eye of round.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:37]: Jarello?

Phil Bass [00:30:38]: Girollo. Yeah. So which means walker.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:43]: Okay.

Phil Bass [00:30:43]: So that is the semitendinosus muscle and also so you can go melanese. That's. That's.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:50]: Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Wow.

Phil Bass [00:30:52]: Dude. That's actually been trimmed down because we've really cleaned those things. So. So the carcasses hang at this packer for a couple of weeks. And what that's doing is adding tenderness, but it's also adding some additional flavor.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:05]: Is that the same as dry aging?

Phil Bass [00:31:06]: It is dry aging.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:06]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:31:07]: But we're dry aging on the carcass level. So this is a whole nother. This is something that cannot be done at large scale packers. We have to target with these guys. So anyway, with the dry aging, we do like to take that dried crust off, so you're just not having to deal with that. That's why I say that's not even the full thing. Like.

Phil Bass [00:31:24]: Yeah, we were cutting down into it to make it. To make it a little cleaner. But amazing for carpaccio because it's like this perfect round. So like with the fesa, the top round, this is. Every cut's gonna be a little bit different in shape. No big deal. If you're just walking down the street, you want to grab a few pieces, you're going and have stuff. This is the one that if you're really trying to wow on a plate.

Phil Bass [00:31:49]: They're going to be nice, perfect round pieces.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:52]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:31:53]: And just again, life changing.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:55]: Okay, so good. Now, when you say nice, perfect round pieces, you mean done as a steak, or are you talking about carpaccio? This as well. Okay, interesting. So, by the way, with the dry aging, you talked about, like, the crust. It's my understanding that that's almost like. Is it like a bacteria that enzymatically breaks down some of the meat? Is that happening?

Phil Bass [00:32:14]: Amazing. You asked that because we've done research at the University of Idaho on this. We've looked at the microbiome that's growing on the outside, and sure, there's bacterial DNA, but they're probably all mostly gone because it's dry on the surface. But there are molds, really beneficial molds. And. And I mean, I won't get to go get into all the specifics of them, but they absolutely are enhancing the meat. They're digging in. It's a mutualistic living condition that they're in.

Phil Bass [00:32:43]: And they're imparting their own unique flavors. Just like the terroir, like, almost like.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:47]: The kombucha of the. Sure.

Phil Bass [00:32:48]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:48]: Kingdom. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. Okay, cool. Oh, my gosh. I gotta make sure my knives are sharp.

Phil Bass [00:32:56]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:56]: Okay, so.

Phil Bass [00:32:57]: Oh, there it is.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:59]: Speak of the devil. Look at the size of that tomahawk, you guys. All right, so we got a tomahawk here. Tell them about this.

Phil Bass [00:33:05]: Okay. Tomahawk. Yeah, this is. It's. I mean, it's a ribeye steak with a bone, but it's got a very long.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:12]: Piece of the number of people who just, like, have eaten at steakhouses their entire life and just don't even know, like. Like that this is the rig, that's the ribbon.

Phil Bass [00:33:19]: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, think about the size of these critters.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:22]: That's.

Phil Bass [00:33:22]: That's the back. That's the top of the back. That's where you'd be riding it, unless.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:25]: You'Re writing it wrong. And I have videos on the show notes, by the way, for the show I did with Justin. I'll put them in this show, too, where you guys can actually see these things on the farm about an hour from here, walking around. They're massive.

Phil Bass [00:33:34]: Yeah, yeah. Beautiful animals, by the way. But, yeah, so again, beautiful presentation. There's not much on there because we French the bone. We cleaned it really, really well. But if you. If you're trying to wow some folks, that's the way to do.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:47]: Wow. Incredible. Yeah, yeah. This one. This is the type of cut that I would actually do a little bit of a smoke on.

Phil Bass [00:33:54]: Sure. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:54]: And then finish it with a grill. I kind of like the. Not only the flavor, and, you know, I don't even know because I haven't smoked a Piedmontese beef before. With a normal cut of beef, I usually get a lot more tenderness when I smoke. I don't know if this is just so tender anyways.

Phil Bass [00:34:12]: It's going to be pretty tender. So something I would recommend about this is that doing an initial cold smoke on this. Absolutely. I would recommend it. Smoke needs the lean to penetrate. It doesn't penetrate through fat, doesn't penetrate through bone. It travels through the lean. So if you put a.

Phil Bass [00:34:29]: Do a cold smoke on this, so you're. You're, you know, set. Set your Traeger to the lowest temperature. It'll do maybe 150 for maybe an hour. Hour or two, and that's going to help to penetrate into the meat and then go ahead and sear that thing off on. On a grill.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:43]: Yeah. The Traeger, I think it'll start off on a Super smoke at 160. I think it's 160, 165. Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:34:49]: Perfect.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:49]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Oh, my gosh.

Phil Bass [00:34:52]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:53]: All right. Yeah. Just remember, somebody's got to arm wrestle you for that. All right, this. This is the never ending never.

Phil Bass [00:35:01]: Oh, man. Oh, okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:02]: This is one of my favorites. I want to hear your take on beef marrow, because I've. I've got some thoughts about beef marrow, but let's hear you have. Okay, so marrow bone.

Phil Bass [00:35:10]: Yeah. This is. This is beef butter right here, guys.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:13]: So butter of the gods.

Phil Bass [00:35:14]: I have only up until a year and a half ago when I. When I did a cutting demo with. With Manzo and a few chefs, I had only eaten bone marrow. Roasted.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:27]: Right.

Phil Bass [00:35:28]: I don't know if. If folks would be interested in this, but try this raw.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:33]: No way.

Phil Bass [00:35:34]: Imagine the best salted butter you've ever eaten.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:38]: Serious? Yeah. Thought about doing.

Phil Bass [00:35:40]: I never thought about it.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:41]: Like, you obviously probably, like, dig in there. Like, isn't the texture pretty?

Phil Bass [00:35:45]: It's amazing.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:46]: Pretty hard.

Phil Bass [00:35:46]: Really? Yeah, it's amazing. So there's. There's definitely a lot of fat. Really good fats.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:49]: Yeah. I mean, you could probably even kind of like, shave it. Almost like a parmesan cheese as well. Almost.

Phil Bass [00:35:53]: Almost. And then the cool thing about. About. So. So first off, we're not cutting marrow bones like you normally would see where they're. They're little bottles, right? Or little pipes.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:04]: Yeah. These.

Phil Bass [00:36:04]: We're we're doing a. We're doing it definitely a little different. We're. We're cutting them long ways. We call this canoe style.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:11]: Yep.

Phil Bass [00:36:11]: That way you can really get access to that marrow inside. And, I mean, you can just take a spoon and go.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:17]: Yeah, there.

Phil Bass [00:36:18]: But then the other cool thing about the Piedmontese cattle, they have a very fine bone. So if this was traditional beef, say, like an Angus or Hereford, which, by the way, I love those animals, but they're just different, is you would not get this much marrow.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:33]: Yeah. It would be a lot more. It's probably hard to see on the camera, but you could tell, like, the thickness of the bone versus the amount. Because that's the worst thing is I got a. At a restaurant, you order the marrow and you get, like, that little baby spoon.

Phil Bass [00:36:44]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:45]: You get half a teaspoon and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. You ever do a bone marrow shoe?

Phil Bass [00:36:51]: Not that I know of.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:52]: Okay. So, I mean.

Phil Bass [00:36:54]: Well, just for.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:55]: Even though we aren't going to do it just for the demonstration purposes. Oh, this is great. This. This. I haven't talked about this stuff much before, but this is actually liqueur made from the mastic tree.

Phil Bass [00:37:05]: Okay.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:05]: So it's got. It's got, like this. It's a really interesting flavor from Greece. Some people say mezcal tequila is the healthiest alcohol because it's got a lot of agave fibers in it, which are like an insoluble fiber. That's great for the guts. Yeah, It's. Use, like, one hard alcohol, and you want the mezcal. But this stuff, this is made from the mastic gum.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:23]: But basically what you do is you pour a shot. Right. And then once, once you've down the marrow, you get all kind of that umami flavor of the barrel. You literally pour your alcohol finish as a shoe.

Phil Bass [00:37:34]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:34]: Down. Down the shoe to the bone marrow. It's pretty incredible. We'll leave that out.

Phil Bass [00:37:38]: That's a great idea.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:42]: All right, so bone marrow and you guys, like, as an even. Just as a substitute for butter, like back to the sourdough bread thing. Well, bone marrow, like a little bit of raw honey and sea salt. I mean, that's me. It's good. Okay, so next up. Oh, I'm gonna save this. There's.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:58]: There's a real special one in the bottom of there. You're gonna save that one. So these two, we've got a flatiron steak and a dino rib.

Phil Bass [00:38:07]: Dino Rib dino.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:09]: I don't know if I've Done a dino rib before. Tell me about these.

Phil Bass [00:38:11]: Okay, so. So the flat iron steak, it actually became a pretty popular cut in the United States about 10, 15 years ago. And very tender. This is something that it's like we rediscovered here in the United States. They've been doing this in Italy and in France and Spain for forever. Okay. But yeah, it's called the capella di prete, which means the hat of the priest. If you look at the whole muscle, which is the infraspinatus muscle right here, it kind of looks like an old fashioned stuff.

Phil Bass [00:38:44]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, anyway, super tender. Go, go straight to the grill with something. Something like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:50]: Okay. Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:38:51]: All right, cool. Yeah. And then the beef dino rib. This is again, just a short rib individual, but okay. Yeah. So much, Much more. Easier to work with. Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:39:02]: Not entirely sure.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:03]: Yeah, that's interesting.

Phil Bass [00:39:04]: Yeah. I mean, it's a bigger than normal, strong river buddy.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:07]: Yeah. Maybe that's why. Okay, so we got our dino rib. And this is just basically like, if you don't. If you don't want to, like, go through the hassle of doing an entire short rib, you just do like one of these.

Phil Bass [00:39:15]: Sure.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:16]: You know, if you're home by yourself and family feed. Okay, before I dig into this last one, it's a funny story. I forget which one of my cookbooks it's in, but I did this experiment where I, you know, I'm a huge fan of, you know, going to Texas, getting some good barbecue, maybe some brisket, which is what Texas is famous for. But doing a brisket well is laborious. Like, if you really want to do it well, technically you're staying up all night, you're spritzing every few hours. I mean, it's, it's, it's a haul and it's well worth the payoff. But me being the lazy person that I am, I had this brilliant idea a couple of years ago. At least I thought it was brilliant.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:54]: I thought, what if I. What if I make for myself like one of those giant food saver bags and I bag an entire brisket and I sous vide it? So I did a 60 hour sous vide brisket. And, you know, the side of a good brisket is if you take it out and it's kind of like jiggling.

Phil Bass [00:40:11]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:11]: And this was the most consistent tender brisket. And then I got lectured. I think I put it on my Instagram or something. I got lectured by a bunch of true barbecue enthusiasts who said I was missing out. Back to the terrar. Thing on, like, the flavor that develops as you're kind of like barbecuing it overnight. But long story short is I'm a fan of brisket. I've tried some weird ways to cook it, and when I sous vided it, I did finish it on the grill to get a little bit of caramelization on the outside, and it turned out pretty well.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:37]: So if you have a giant pot and a sous vide setup and you ever want to try doing a sous vide brisket, it's worth an experiment at least. But this is the Manzo brisket.

Phil Bass [00:40:51]: That's just half of it.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:51]: I'm getting my workout. All right, tell them about brisket, Phil. What do you like to do with it? What's special about this?

Phil Bass [00:40:58]: So I'll be quite honest with you. I haven't really spent much time with the Manzo brisket. In Italy, they don't smoke it. This would be more cut up into smaller pieces, and then they make bolito. So again, that boiled meat, the very common. It's very much, you know, classic peasant food. But, you know, you mix in the right kind of accoutrements in there, and that's going to be really something special. Brisket.

Phil Bass [00:41:23]: You know, if you want to barbecue this, like a classic Texas style brisket, just be careful with it just because it doesn't have that fat layer on it. Yeah, it's very, very.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:31]: So what you're saying, honestly, probably going to cook faster than normal brisket.

Phil Bass [00:41:34]: Yes.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:35]: Might be able to do this as a daytime job.

Phil Bass [00:41:37]: Could be. Yeah. And honestly, I think I would really recommend you try the. Try the sous vide version. Yeah. I was thinking the exact same thing before you even said. Yeah. Because you're gonna maintain all that great juiciness that's in there.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:51]: Yeah.

Phil Bass [00:41:51]: And you can. You can. You can get that long cook without dehydration.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:54]: I'll have to dig back into my cookbook, but I think I use 145 as, as the temp for this. I'd probably even go lower than that based on what we've already learned about brisket. But, yeah, that's a good idea.

Phil Bass [00:42:04]: And there's no reason why you can't still smoke it.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:07]: Big enough for that.

Phil Bass [00:42:07]: Yeah. You can still smoke it after it's been sous vide.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:11]: Right, right. You'll get that.

Phil Bass [00:42:12]: That great flavor on there.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:13]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Incredible. And I mean, what we just went through, I mean, if you get like, even just like a half cow from Lonzo, obviously there's going to be a lot more than this. But, but, you know, from what I understand from Justin, like, you can basically call him up on the phone and just kind of tell them what kind of stuff you're interested in. Yes. And you guys, like, customize the, the cuts.

Phil Bass [00:42:35]: Yeah, yeah. The butcher shop will. Will customize to what it is that you want. Say you. If you want more ground beef, we can focus on that. We're trying to minimize the amount of ground beef because you get a lot of it off of an animal. There's no question about that. So we're trying to stick to whole muscle as much as possible.

Phil Bass [00:42:55]: That's what the Italian butchers would absolutely be focusing on. It's going to be better for them from a merchandising standpoint. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with the ground beef too.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:05]: It's.

Phil Bass [00:43:05]: It's spectacular.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:06]: This is fantastic, you guys. No ketchup even required.

Phil Bass [00:43:10]: No.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:10]: For those of you who are Heinz 57 ketchup people. No, no, no, no, no.

Phil Bass [00:43:14]: Not recommended.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:15]: Okay, so first of all, get this out of the way. I highly recommend that you combine what we just went through, what Phil and I just went through with the whole backstory, just the fascinating story of how these cows came from the Middle East and wound up in Canada and eventually back down towards the Spokane area, and how I found this in my own backyard and connected with Justin. That whole podcast [email protected]/ Beef podcast, I think. But I'll link to it in the show notes. If you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/ eatmeat I'm gonna put a link where you can get pretty significant. I think we even have like up to like a 30 something percent discount on, on the, some of the cuts. You get the half cow option, get the whole cow option. You know, if you don't even know, obviously it's an investment to get a half or whole cow.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:01]: But if you're just like, hey, I want to grab a few steaks and see what this stuff tastes like first, you can do that. And if you visit the show [email protected] eatmeat you can leave your questions, your comments, your feedback. Sometimes if I see something in there because I read them all that I don't know the answer to, I'll forward it on to a guy like Phil or to Justin and be able to pipe in and fill you in on, you know, everything from, you know, what about this cut? Do you do this one to, you know, do you have like, a Tofu beyond burger version of this?

Phil Bass [00:44:33]: No?

Ben Greenfield [00:44:34]: Okay, well, we got that one out of the way. You guys don't even need to ask. But Phil, this is just incredible. Thank you so much for coming to my house and for making me hungry. Thanks for watching guys.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:47]: To discover even more tips, tricks, hacks.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:50]: And content to become the most complete, boundless version of you, visit BenGreenfieldLife.com.

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