[Transcript] – Ben Greenfield Interviews His Mom: Homeschooling, Coffee Shops, Writing, Music & More With Pat Greenfield!

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From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/pat-greenfield-podcast/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:55] About this Podcast

[00:02:09] Podcast Sponsors

[00:06:18] Reminiscing At People's Waffles

[00:09:00] Pat's upbringing and adopting a vegetarian diet as a child

[00:13:38] Moving out of the house, striking out on her own

[00:34:00] Podcast Sponsors

[00:38:58] Moving to Idaho

[00:36:33] What kind of student was Ben Greenfield?

[00:56:46] Gushing Over Rosie, The Adopted Child

[01:00:18] How Pat spends her days in Moscow, ID currently

[01:04:16] Pat's food philosophy raising her children

[01:06:48] How the Greenfield kids got into music, athletics, and fitness

[01:09:37] What is it like to be a grandma?

[01:11:02] Closing the Podcast

Ben:  My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.

Pat:  My faith was solidified after that.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  It was like, “Okay, God could have taken me, but he didn't, he left me here. I better do something good.”

Ben:  I think that was one of the most important gifts that you gave me, besides just teaching me how to love Jesus and have an upright life.

Pat:  I mean, I feel you became my parent because it was very typical of you to be like, “Mom, do you think you ought to be doing that?”

Ben:  I still do that.

Pat:  Do you want to hear the rest of that story?

Ben:  I think it's an interesting story if you want to share it.

Pat:  Yeah, it was life-changing.

Ben:  Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

A few years ago, I had an interesting podcast episode in which I interviewed my father and I got a surprising amount of positive feedback on that episode. And so, I thought, you know what, I want to interview my mom. I want to interview my mom. So, that's what I did. And, you're going to hear an interview with my mom. We talk about what kind of kid I was growing up, and the kind of foods we ate as a family, and what we did, and why they homeschooled, and how we wound up in Idaho. And, just a super fun story. There's a part where it gets a little bit rough in terms of possibly not safe for work or for young people in terms of some traumatic issues we get into. And so, I just want to warn you about that. And then, also recorded my kitchen table on a nice quiet Sunday afternoon and about 45 minutes into the podcast. We got just waylaid by dogs barking and people running about and lots of noise. So, I tried to keep my sanity but it got a little bit distracting towards the end. Hopefully, you've got a lot of that edited out for you, but just so you know. My only thing is I wish I could have interviewed it for three hours or seven hours. But, hopefully, this gives you a good chance to get to know my mom. And, we'll give you a few little ways to improve your life along the way.

Well, the dog days of winter are here. We all know what that means. The days are shorter, temps are colder, there's less healthy natural sunlight that we all need. But, here's the deal, you don't have to sweat these dreadful winter months because you can get all of what you're looking for in terms of the healing spectrum of red light from being outdoors, but you can get it in the comfort of your own office, or your home, or even if you wanted to stick one in your sauna. They're called the Joovv Lights. They've got thousands of peer-reviewed research articles on the benefits of red and near-infrared light for things like skin health, and reduced pain, and inflammation, and faster muscle recovery, and even hormone enhancement. But, the problem is, it can be tough to actually get access to a device that's powerful enough to not need you to stand in front of it for hours. And then, a device that also allows you to adjust the settings. The Joovv Lights, they have ambient mode, which uses a lower intensity red light designed to be used at night as a healthy alternative to lighting your office or your home instead of using bright blue light. You can literally just flip a Joovv on and have that be your light. And, it doesn't affect your melatonin production when you do that. They have little go devices that you can take with you on the go. My wife's got one up in the bathroom. She does her clay mask and then she'll stand in front of that while she's doing her other makeup or whatever mysterious things that women do in the bathroom are doing. And, she'll have the red light shining at her the whole time that she does that. So, I think it's fantastic. I got them all over my house. Even one at my guest house. People come to my house and they just bathe in these Joovv red lights. They love them.

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I cannot shut up about this. I'm still pinching myself that the new formula that me and the team at Kion put together for optimizing your sleep big time. Works so freaking well. I mean, I started using it when I started to get the sample copy sent to my house. The first couple times I forgot I took it, I got super groggy. 15 to 20 minutes later, I'm like, “What's going on? I want to go to sleep.” And, I'd normally be reading in bed at night. I'd be falling asleep while I was reading a book. And so, I figured out the sweet spot. I take it 15 minutes before the time I actually want to fall asleep and I'm out. My wife will be talking and I'll just be like [babbling] and I'm out. But, the fact is I'm not groggy. It's not like THC, or high-dose melatonin, or anything like that when I wake up, it just makes me fall asleep way faster, stay asleep. You know that feeling when you get up in the morning you don't know what time it is? You get up and you got to pee a ton, and you're like, “Oh, I'm peeing so much. I must have slept a really long time.” And, sure enough, I'll look at my watch after going to bed at 9:30, it'll be 6:00. Seriously, I'm freaking having to almost set an alarm now so I remember to get out of bed.

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How did you like them, waffles, mom?

Pat:  They were good.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Have you ever been to People's Waffles before?

Pat:  No.

Ben:  Okay. So, for people listening in this is like a fancy waffle joint that I've been going to and my mom follows me on Instagram. I think all moms probably follow their kids on Instagram.

Pat:  Some of my friends in Moscow have come up to there.

Ben:  To Instagram or to People's Waffles?

Pat:  People Waffles.

Ben:  Yeah. So, People's Waffles they do these really good farm-to-table ingredients and then the gluten-free. I think they use the Bob's Red Mill type of flour. And, today, well, it was you and me, my brother Zach and his daughter. What do we have? The Reuben, which was really good. The corned beef and sauerkraut. Well, I grew up in Lewiston as you know, I hope.

Pat:  Oh, really?

Ben:  Remember Clarkston, Washington, Fazzari's Pizza? They had sauerkraut mustard pizza.

Pat:  Yup. It was called the Shotsy.

Ben:  The shots the Shotsy.

Pat:  Shotsy, yeah.

Ben:  This reminded me of that. It's a waffle with Reuben and sauerkraut.

Pat:  That's good.

Ben:  And, I forget what else you put on a Reuben, but it was really good. And then, we had a lemon curd, which was blueberries, lemon sauce. What else was on there? I don't know. It just all tastes so good in your mouth. There's leftovers in the refrigerator.

Pat:  That hard disk of lemon.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. It was like a lemon, like a candy lemon thing. And then, the last one was, Curious George bananas, almond butter, pumpkin cream, banana cream. That was pretty good too.

Pat:  That was good.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, I've got you drinking some bastardized form of coffee. It's chaga. Have you ever had chaga and lion's mane before? Okay.

Pat:  No, but you can't even see through the top half inch.

Ben:  The only problem when you put the chaga in the coffee is the coffee tastes a little burnt because chaga has like a burnt flavor to it. So, yeah. I don't know why I always like to talk about food at the beginning of a podcast.

Pat:  I know. I'm getting hungry. Why are you doing that?

Ben:  We'll have steak later on. For those of you listening in, I'm preparing my lovely mother who you're listening to right now some sous vide steak. You've never had sous vide before?

Pat:  No.

Ben:  Okay. So, we're living it up today. We got waffles, chaga coffee, and sous vide steak.

So, anyways though. I think I got more into nutrition and cooking from scratch, and all those kind of things when I started hanging out with the girl who is now my wife. I remember the first time she made me a meal, she brought out meal and it was wrapped in paper. I'm like, what the hell? But, it was salmon in parchment paper. She made me this fancy meal. And, I just wasn't used to that kind of stuff.

People, a lot of times ask me about the diet that I grew up on. And, maybe we could get to that later. But, I know that you used to follow. Weren't you vegan, or vegetarian, or something like that at one point? Tell me about that.

Pat:  When I was young. I don't really exactly remember the age, but I feel it was somewhere around 12 years old to when I was 17 or 18 that I was vegetarian.

Ben:  12 years old.

Pat:  Yeah, it probably irritated my mom. But, it was kind of a little bit hypocritical because I was also smoking cigarettes.

Ben:  Cigarettes made from animals. Pretty sure cigarettes are vegan. It's tobacco, which is a plant.

Pat:  Okay. Then that was good. That was good.

Ben:  Yeah. Do you remember why you decided to be vegetarian?

Pat:  No, I think it was just some kind of thing about animals and also just a trend. There were a lot of trends then that was in the late '60s and early '70s.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, you grew up in Alpena, Michigan, right?

Pat:  Mm-hmm.

Ben:  Tell me about how that little town was.

Pat:  It's a very cool town. It's on the coast of Lake Huron, one of the five great lakes of Michigan. And, it's kind of a touristy town, but it's not very big. I want to say probably now it might be 35, 40,000, but it was very water-oriented and–

Ben:  Like water sports?

Pat:  Water, everything.

Ben:  Because it's on the lake.

Pat:  Yeah. Because a lot of people lived on the lake, everybody had boats and that kind of thing. We didn't have a boat. But, it was a beautiful little town. Yeah. But, it was definitely a tiny town to grow up in.

Ben:  And. you had a heck of a lot of sisters. Tell people how many sisters you had.

Pat:  I'm the youngest of nine kids. and, we're all girls.

Ben:  What was that like growing up in a house with eight sisters?

Pat:  I had nine mothers.

Ben:  Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah. They all had told me what to do. They all acted like my mother. Yeah, it was interesting.

Ben:  What kind of kid were you?

Pat:  You want me to say that in here?

Ben:  You can say anything you want on my podcast. It's my podcast. We could always edit it out, just too nasty.

Pat:  I wasn't a good kid because I was kind of a brat and kind of spoiled. I mean, “Pat the brat” that rhymes.

Ben:  It does, Pat the brat.

Pat:  Yeah. And so, I kind of made life miserable for a lot of them because I didn't like being mothered. And, by the time my mom got to girl number, I don't know, eight and nine, you could see she was wearing thin. You know what I mean? And so, we didn't have a lot of interaction time with my mom because I was youngest. And, my father, he was older, so he was 50 when I was born.

Ben:  Yeah. And, he was an athlete, right?

Pat:  He was an athlete, yeah.

Ben:  Baseball, primarily.

Pat:  Yes. But, he signed a contract with, I don't know if you called the Major Leagues, but just under the Major Leagues. I can't remember what they were. But, he signed a contract to be a left-handed pitcher for a pretty famous baseball team. And then, to celebrate–

Ben:  Wait, wait, I think I remember because you told me a long time. Was it Toledo Mud Hens?

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yes, Toledo Mud Hens.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  It's probably like a farm team.

Pat:  Yes. So, I don't know what it was because I don't think I was born at that point. But, he went out fishing to celebrate because he was a passionate fisherman. And, he went out fishing to celebrate that contract, and his friend who went with him fished his eye out on a cast.

Ben:  My gosh.

Pat:  So, he went blind completely in his right eye. And, of course, the team didn't want him anymore. So, he didn't realize his dream. So, after a couple years, he turned into a coach, referee, umpire of baseball and basketball. As a matter of fact, he started Little League in our town and the field was named after him.

Ben:  Geez. Were you in the sports based on his influence?

Pat:  My dad started Girls Little League, which was really cool. So, yeah.

Ben:  So, you played Little League Baseball, Girls Little League Baseball?

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Was that the only sport that you did?

Pat:  No, I did basketball in high school. I just rode my bike like a maniac all the time. But, mostly basketball in junior high in high school, and then baseball when I was little.

Ben:  Being in Michigan, did you do much skating? I know a lot of people into ice skating there.

Pat:  All winter long. They would take hoses and flood the football field and freeze it. And then, they'd charge a couple bucks to get in or whatever. And, you could skate all day and they'd play the coolest music on the speakers overhead.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And, we just spent the entire day there. And, they had food, they had concessions and stuff. It was really cool. And, because it was so cold that close to the upper peninsula, then it stayed frozen a long time.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

So, how long did you live in Alpena before you kind of moved out of the house?

Pat:  Every summer when I was 14, 15, 16, I would go to Florida for the summer because I always given my parents trouble. And so, they liked that I would go stay with my older sister in Florida for the summer.

Ben:  I was going to say it was just randomly shipping off to Florida when your sisters–

Pat:  No. My sister, yeah. And so, I'd stay with them every summer, but I got in trouble down there too. But then, I think when I was, I want to say, 17 and a half maybe, I left to move down to Florida with some friends because my dad was dying of cancer at that time. And, it was just overwhelming that the whole family was taking care of him and he was just dying before our eyes. I couldn't take it because I didn't deal with things the same way I do now, and it was hard.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. Which part of Florida was that?

Pat:  I went to Bradenton, Sarasota area, which is beautiful. It's part of Florida.

Ben:  Yeah. We still have some family live down there.

Pat:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Like the Tampa area.

Pat:  Yeah, Troy and Beth, yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. So, you lived part of the time in Florida and then part of the time in Michigan?

Pat:  I didn't go back to Michigan except for my dad's funeral, which happened. My dad died a couple hours after I left.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And so, went back to the funeral and then I didn't go back to Michigan. I think I lived down in Florida for, I don't know if it was a couple months or so, but I was getting in some trouble down there and I had some bad influences of friendships. And so, my mom came down with one of my sisters and hauled me up back up to Michigan. But, I only got as far as Detroit because my sister who lived in Detroit found a job for me there. So, I had a job.

Ben:  Alright. So, I can edit it out if I need to. But, when you say you got into trouble in Florida, what do you mean you got in trouble? Tell me what kind of kid you were.

Pat:  I was hanging around with people that weren't good influences. And, I was not exactly a follower, I was a leader too.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And, I was turning on my nephews to pot and stuff that wasn't legalized then, and just things that were not–

Ben:  It was mostly drugs.

Pat:  Yeah, for sure.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

Pat:  But, I was also into drugs up in Alpena too, selling and that kind of thing.

Ben:  Yeah. Was that just you or were all your sisters into that kind of stuff?

Pat:  Oh, no. They're much older than I. I mean, I only have one sister who was close to my age and she's a year and a half older than me. But then, there's a five-year gap, and then my older sister is 16 years older than me. They were all doing their own thing. It was during that era where everybody was doing their own thing in the '60s and stuff.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. I don't even know if you have your finger on the pulse of this. But, do you think it's kind of weird that a lot of those drugs that were obviously vilified and considered to be the things that bad people or the trouble kids do now are now considered to be trendy like Silicon Valley executives using psilocybin–

Pat:  Well, you've taught me some of that. When I first started hearing about micro-dosing and things like that.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And then, three of my kids live in the state of Washington. One of my kids lives in Arizona. Those are all legal states. You know what I mean?

Ben:  For marijuana, you mean?

Pat:  Yeah, for marijuana. And, that was really concerning for me. But, the more that I listened to what they were saying and I realized that times have changed and that stuff is not really true anymore.

Ben:  Well, I don't know–

Pat:  Well, maybe for abusive people.

Ben:  It's kind of a “Catch-22” because there's on one side of the equation, you've got stuff, for example, psilocybin, which I'm sure a lot of people got into trouble with back in the '60s.

Pat:  That grows really well in Florida.

Ben:  Yeah. And now, people use it for creativity in very small doses or productivity. It's almost perhaps the way that it was intended to be used or the reason that it was created in the first place. But then, you have something like marijuana, which for you back in the day, I think–I don't remember what the THC content of the average joint would be, and I know because some people who grew up when you grew up will try modern-day marijuana and it'll freaking fry them for days because the THC content is so much higher. So, in some ways, it's almost worse now in terms of the potency just because technology and extraction, everything has come a long ways.

Pat:  And, I'm sure the abuse factor is still there with drugs now. 

Ben:  Absolutely. It's the same as it always has been for all of humankind. Anything that allows you to shift your state of consciousness, and escape or run away from problems in life if that's why you're using it can obviously, it'll always be an issue. Humans like to tweak their brains. We're dopaminergic creatures. And, whether it's wine, or food, or exercise, or anything else, but yeah. Mom's drinking. What kind of wine is that, mom?

Pat:  La Vierge organic.

Ben:  It's only 4:45 in the afternoon, but is that the [00:18:42] _____ wine?

Pat:  No, that's La Vierge organic.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, we'll get to that later on because you serve up some pretty good brews down at your place in Moscow. We'll talk about Moscow later on. I'll try and stay somewhat chronologically appropriate here as we go down the timeline of your youth. And then, we'll get into raising us as kids as well.

So, you eventually made your way out to Idaho. I know you have kind of an interesting story about what got you out to Idaho in the first place that it has to do with you working up in Detroit or getting a job there. So, tell me about that.

Pat:  I don't know that that was the catalyst to get me to Idaho. One of the things that got me to Idaho was because only one of the sisters was living out here. That's the firstborn.

Ben:  Mary Lou.

Pat:  Mary Lou. She's awesome.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  We call her “The Jesus One.”

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  She's awesome. Anyway, she–

Ben:  She definitely falls in the category of Jesus freak in a good way. She was your perfect sister.

Pat:  Yeah. And, she lived out here and she really was hoping that some sister would come out and visit her. And, the others were already married and having kids and stuff. And, I was just living in Florida. I went to Bible College for a year with my sister who's a year and a half older than me. And so, then they asked me if I wanted to just ride out for the summer and get a part-time job in the summer, and then I could go back in the fall to my wonderful little Florida. And so, I moved out here with them. We were just talking the other day about this and laughing our heads off over at Bucer's about my impression of them when they came and got me. Because they were dressed in Idaho clothes, and they had–

Ben:  When they came and got you from Florida, you mean?

Pat:  Yeah. And, I got a couple hours away from Florida, and I thought, “I got to escape. I got to get out of here.” Because they're so different culturally.

Ben:  So, basically, you're a bad kid in Florida.

Pat:  By that particular time, I had converted to Christ.

Ben:  Okay.

Pat:  And so, I was already a Christian for, I don't know, maybe six months or something.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  So, when they came to get me, I had the like-mindedness that they had in that way. But culturally, I had been seasoned so differently. So, it was a little bit.

Ben:  But you'd cleaned up your act.

Pat:  Totally, yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. Did that happen when you're in Florida that you became a Christian?

Pat:  No. When my mom and my sister came to get me from Florida and take me up there because they were really worried about me because I was living with kind of a bad crowd, a whole house full of people, and they came to get me, and so that one of my sisters could give me the job in Detroit. When I got up there, I was just really lonely and really like wow. And, my dad had just died a couple months before he had died on Father's Day weekend a couple months before then. Gosh, I was rock bottom. And, I was living alone in an apartment, something I'd never done. Who gets to live alone when you have that many siblings? And, I just never lived alone. And so, my sister set me up in an apartment and got me a job in a big printing equipment firm, the kinds of printers that newspapers. I don't know if they still use them, but they're humongous, they're as big as a car.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And, they flip out the newspapers and stuff. That's what–

Ben:  I don't know what they call them, like a printing press or whatever?

Pat:  Yeah. That's what was sold at that business. That's what they sold at that business. So, it was a humongous warehouse, really large warehouse with those in it, and then in the back. So, the father of the family owned the printing press company where people would come and look at these things. And then, they'd make deals at the bank to buy them. And then, in the back through a big door, a heavy regular opening door, there was a screw machine parts, which they hired maybe illegals and young people to go, there were a lot of people back there, that made screws and nails and stuff like that. I mean, that's what it was. The son owned that company. And, I was just the secretary in the front by the front door of the printing press place.

Ben:  So, that was your new job from Florida up to Detroit when your sisters came to “rescue you from Florida.” They got you a job as a secretary at this basically like a factory warehouse place in Detroit.

Pat:  Except for the front, wasn't a factory. The back was the factory. The front was a place they tried to make a warehouse look good so people would come in and buy these huge things because those things were a fortune. And so, do you want to hear the rest of that story?

Ben:  I think it's an interesting story if you want to share it.

Pat:  Yeah, it was life-changing. So, by that point when I went to work that particular day, I'd only worked there for a couple weeks and I had become a Christian a couple weeks before then because I was really lonely and I was really confused about what the heck was I going to be as an adult if I had made such a mess. And, I remembered that morning that I prayed. I want to cry.

Ben:  You can cry.

Pat:  That I prayed that I said I'm not going to make this, this is too hard. I lost all my friends because they thought I was going to nark on them and thought this is just too hard. And so, I asked God to make himself real to me. And then, I got in my car and I went to work, my Volkswagen, and I went to work. And, I got to work and I remembered that prayer and it was about 4 o'clock in the afternoon and I was supposed to keep the door locked, the customers come in. I was supposed to keep locked, but I grew up in a little town I'm like, “Why do I have to lock the door?” And, four young guys came in, they're actually ended up being my age, 18, and they came in, they said they wanted to apply for a job in the screw machine factory in the back which happened all the time. They would come and they'd get application, they'd sit down, fill it out. And so, that's what I did. I just gave them applications and they sat down, I don't know, 10, 12 feet from me. And, they were filling them out, but they look really, really nervous. And, all of them had one hand in their hoodie, just one hand stuck in their hoodie. And then, the other one, they were just, I don't know, trying to fill that out which they weren't interested in. Anyway. And, within a few minutes, they had all pulled their guns out of their hoodies and two of them ran up to where the older boss was, the younger boss, they sat a window nest where you could see the whole building. So, they sat up there and you could see them at their desk. So, two of them ran up there to apprehend them or to make sure–

Ben:  Your bosses were upstairs?

Pat:  Yeah. They could see everything. They could see the door and everything. So, they went up there and they just put the guns to their head. And then, one of them stayed at the front door to guard the door with a gun, and then one of them came up to me, put the gun to my temple, and pulled the hammer back. And, I mean, I watched enough “Mission Impossible” and that kind of stuff growing up where I knew the next thing that happens is you die.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And so, he did that, he told me to sit down and that kind of stuff. All four of them decided they would take us on a little journey deep into the back of the warehouse where they–

Ben:  You and your two bosses?

Pat:  Yeah. And so, when we were walking past that door, I told you about that kind of a heavy regular door but it was pretty heavy, the door that led to the factory in the back. We were walking past that down the hall, it opened. And, when it opened, it was one of the elderly women who worked back there and she had a truck driver with a clipboard with her who was coming to get it signed that he was picking up a bunch of parts. That just happened all day long. And, when she looked in and saw the guns to our heads and us walking down that hall to go to the back, she let the door slam. It was heavy and knocked him in. He came in with us then. So then, he–

Ben:  One of the guys with the gun?

Pat:  No. The young guy, the truck driver. So, he got taken hostage too.

Ben:  Oh, the truck driver got knocked in.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, now there's four hostages. Your two bosses and the truck driver.

Pat:  Yeah. Yeah. So, they took us to the back, and it's a hallway that's not really visible from anywhere else. And, the building had hundreds of little, tiny windows, most of which have been shot out joyriding around this big curve that went around the front. So, people just go by and shoot them all out. This is Detroit. And so, most of the windows were boarded up but there were a few that weren't boarded up that were still glass. But, you couldn't really see into well unless you put your nose up against it. I knew I was in trouble when they took the guys to the men's bathroom and told them to go in there and not come out. And, if they were going to come out, they're going to get shot. So, I thought, I want to go with them.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  But–

Ben:  Because that's all three of them, which leaves just you.

Pat:  Just me. So, just left me. By this time, one of those guys had gone back to guarding the front door, so nobody came in. I don't know. I mean when you're going through a trauma like that, when you're going through being the victim of a violent crime, it's hard to have a timeframe. It's really hard to have a timeframe.

Ben:  I can't imagine.

Pat:  It's kind of a woman describes as labor. You don't even know how long it is, it's just like, I don't know. So then, they thought that there might be cash in the vault. The vault was maybe 10 feet deep and 10 feet wide, but we didn't keep money in there, we only kept petty cash in there because all the transactions, the big ones were just done at the bank. So, they thought that a vault, and it was a real vault with a thick door, they thought that there would be money in there.

Ben:  Right, significant amounts of money.

Pat:  Yeah. And, we found out later that they were all junkies. So, they were just probably after some fast and easy cash to go buy again. And so, they took me into there. But, while they were in there, this time I was with two. And, while they were in there, they gave in to their sexual desires and they decided that they would rape me. And so, the reason I cried is, I mean this happened a long time ago, but it's what God did. They were doing things one at a time, they'd call another one in there and then one would go and that kind of thing. And, they all had guns, so it's not all the martial arts that you've heard about or that you might think you might do, you don't do those not when they're guns, you just don't do them.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And so–

Ben:  I mean, you can't really fight when you have a gun pointed at you.

Pat:  You can't. Plus being raped is pretty traumatizing. And so, they were taking turns. And, when it came time for the third one to come in, and then the others would leave, all of a sudden, I don't even know if I said this out loud, I don't know, but all of a sudden I realized that prayer from the morning.

Ben:  That you said that morning.

Pat:  That I said that I needed God to make himself real to me. And so, right then, I just asked God this. And, again, I don't know if I said it out loud because, no. But, I remember saying very consciously saying, “Lord, please get me to heaven with one clean shot through the head or make this stop now, just make this all stop now or take me to heaven with one clean shot through the head. I'm not into pain.” So, I thought, okay. I remember saying, “In Jesus name.” That's what I remember saying that. And then, right then, there was a loud pounding, and myself, and a couple of them looked over towards those very few little windows that still had glass in them and SWAT were out there with all their gear.

Ben:  The SWATs, yeah.

Pat:  Yeah. With their helmets, their vests, huge rifles, huge guns. They were in that. They were looking through that little, tiny window. Later, I found out that was one of the first windows they walked up to. And, it was in an office across a hall. In other words, they really had to angle themselves to look through the office, through the hallway, and into the vault.

Ben:  Yeah. Oh, the chances.

Pat:  And so, when they used the butt of their guns to pound on the window, that scared everybody. It scared me. It scared them. And so, they threw me on the ground. I had been up on a table, but they threw me on the ground, on the floor, and they were just like, “It's the pigs, let's get out of here.” And so, then all of a sudden what I had just prayed, all of a sudden, just happened. And, they took off down a hall that I knew had no way out. They took off down that hall by the bathroom and there was no way for them to get out of the building–

Ben:  Like a dead end.

Pat:  Yeah. So, I jumped into the corner of the room. I had watched a lot of those kind of shows when I was little because I was really into like…

Ben: LikeMission Impossible.”

Pat:  Yes. So, I–

Ben:  I know this because you were super into us watching “Mission Impossible” when it came out with Tom Cruise.

Pat:  So, I hid in the corner standing up and put a bunch of empty boxes in front of me so you couldn't tell there was a human there. And, they came running back in a few seconds and I knew they were going to take me hostage so that they could get out of that building.

Ben:  Right.

Pat:  And, they looked in there and they couldn't find me. And, they said she's gone, but I wasn't gone. And then, they ran out–

Ben:  You're literally hiding under a bunch of cardboard boxes.

Pat:  Behind a bunch of boxes I stacked up, yeah, in the corner. And, they ran out into the big showroom. And then, guns firing everywhere because the cops knew they all had weapons and stuff. And so, the next thing I heard was a police officer. I could tell because it was a different way he spoke. And, he came into that room and he said, “Are you in here? Miss, are you in here?” And then, I push the boxes away. He put his coat on me, and then we walked out and hid behind one of the big printing presses until all the shooting was done. And, at that time, one of them managed to escape from there. We don't know how, but I guess he climbed out the ceiling or something. One got shot there, that was a homicide because the officers shot him there. They had him lay spread eagle on the floor and then he lifted his gun up to shoot one of them, so there's no way. And then, two were captured there. And then, there was a trial a couple months later where we had to send him to prison.

Ben:  Wow. What was going through your head when the guy saved you and he knew that you were–

Pat:  It was awesome. I think I said something like, “Oh, praise God,” or something like that. I feel like I said something very, very rejoicing. I think I did. Then I had to go, that was about, like I said, 4:30 or 5:00 in the afternoon and then I had to go down to homicide, Downtown Detroit, to look at photos and all that kind of stuff to try to catch the one that escaped.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  So, I was down there till 11 o'clock at night.

Ben:  Wow.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Wow.

Pat:  But, I was really happy, and my faith was solidified after that.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  It was like, “Okay, God could have taken me, but he didn't, he left me here. I better do something good.”

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I could stop the podcast right here just based on the power of that story and how profound it was in terms of God coming to your aid in the way that he did. But, I know your journey went pretty far beyond that.

Pat:  Oh, yeah.

Ben:  Because you eventually wound up in Idaho.

Pat:  That was the start.

Ben:  That was the start. Tell me about that about getting out to Idaho.

Pat:  Oh, I came out with my older sister and her husband and their three little girls.

Ben:  Was it after that were you just like, “Get me the hell out of Detroit.” Was that what–

Pat:  I did want to leave Detroit. I think I went up to Alpena for a while to be with my mom because my mom was really, really, really mad at those people. She really wanted to kill them.

Ben:  I bet.

Pat:  But, I went up and hung around with her, and then I went back down to the Bradenton, Sarasota area. And, that's where Chuck and Mary Lou picked me up. That's where my oldest sister and her husband picked me up.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

Pat:  And, we went to Idaho. And, when I got to Idaho, I thought–

Ben:  You drove across the country.

Pat:  Drove in a pickup, yeah, truck camper thingy.

Ben:  Had you driven across the country yet?

Pat:  No, I've never been to the west at all.

Ben:  Never been to Idaho?

Pat:  Mm-hmm.

Ben:  Wow. I did interview dad a few years ago, and for him, it was literally pointing his finger on him.

Pat:  I know what he did, yeah.

Ben:  And then, reading about farming and why he wanted to move to Idaho to be an idyllic farmer.

Pat:  But, he had the same cultural thing.

Ben:  Which is kind of funny because he kind of is now, he's just off the sticks [00:40:20] _____ eventually he got the farming thing kind of done.

Pat:  The thing is that culturally, I mean we both came from larger or places where we had some of those experiences, and then we both came to Idaho. So, it was kind of funny that we both ended up in Idaho just different reasons. And then, when I came out here, it was summertime. I got a summertime job.

Ben:  Where in Idaho?

Pat:  Moscow.

Ben:  In Moscow.

Pat:  That's where my sister lived. And, I came out to Moscow and I lived there all summer thinking I cannot wait to get out. There's so many hicks here. They don't even know what's cool or what.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  I mean, that was–

Ben:  Because you were a back east girl.

Pat:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Been living in Detroit, obviously in Florida, you were kind of living a fast-paced lifestyle down there. Yeah.

Pat:  Right. And so, when I got out here, everything seemed so slow. And so, by the end of the summer, I was totally in love with Idaho. There was no going back. I didn't want to go back to Florida. 

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah. So, that's how it started.

Ben:  So, at what point did you meet dad?

Pat:  Actually, I met dad before that summer was over. He was walking down the street in Moscow with one of his friends and he was on the way to a Bible study. And, I met him there because I was hired as a youth director for that presbyterian church in Moscow. And, my job was just to ride bikes with the kids and have a fun time. So, the youth group was nine little boys. There weren't any girls in it. So, I just hung around these nine little boys all day.

Ben:  And, from growing up with eight sisters to hang out with nine little boys in Moscow, Idaho.

Pat:  Yeah. Yeah, that's how I met him.

Ben:  So, fast forward a little bit. You guys get married.

Pat:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Didn't you get married a hitching post or something like that?

Pat:  Yeah, in Couer d'Alene.

Ben:  Tell me about that.

Pat:  It's still there. We had planned a wedding that was kind of big in Idaho, but we didn't know hardly anybody. And, it was April the following year. And, my family, they weren't really wealthy and they were all planning on coming to see their little sister get married out in Idaho. And, we just decided that since the wedding would only be our family flying out here, why didn't we just–By the way, our honeymoon was going to be moving back to Florida to work for your grandpa.

Ben:  Yeah, Dad's dad who was a salesman.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, because dad came from a little bit wealthier family.

Pat:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  His dad was a successful salesman, but he was hanging with the likes of Zig Ziglar and all those guys. Yeah. It's kind of funny because I used to be infatuated when I'd go to grandpa's house with all of his sales and body language, and all the positive psychology. I was so into that. And, really that culminated in me. It's kind of funny because I interviewed him a few weeks ago, that culminated in me discovering the Tony Robbins old, I forget, claim your power, something like that. And, I listened to that. And, that kind of got me down the entrepreneurial route. But, you guys didn't move back to Florida, you stayed in Idaho?

Pat:  No, we moved back to Florida. So, our honeymoon was moving back to Florida. So, we took the top way to Michigan because we had canceled the actual wedding ceremony thingy. We got married at the hitching post, and then we drove–

Ben:  So, funny the hitching post.

Pat:  I know, it is. But, I just met somebody the other day in Moscow who got married at the hitching post.

Ben:  I know, I've been over to Coeur d'Alene, I've driven past the hitching post.

Pat:  Yeah. We drove over the top of the United States and then we ended up going down through the upper peninsula, and then down through lower peninsula, and then heading for Florida. We did that so that dad could meet all my sisters. So, yeah. The first stop was Marquette, Michigan. And, when we were there, we decided to go for a bike ride. And, I broke my leg in four places and have–

Ben:  You broke your leg in four places on your honeymoon.

Pat:  Third day.

Ben:  Geez.

Pat:  Yeah. Had to get all pinned together and be in the hospital.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Anyway. So then, we ended up down in Florida. But, we didn't stay very long, we really missed Idaho.

Ben:  Really.

Pat:  And, we came back, yeah.

Ben:  So, you moved to Miami for a little while, dad was working for grandpa, and then you just decided to go back.

Pat:  Yup.

Ben:  Dad went back and worked. And, by the way, for those of you listening in, I'll link to the podcast I did with my dad where he tells some of his story. I'm going to keep all the shownotes for you if you go to BenGreenfieldfitness.com/PatGreenfield. Let me know if I mention your name, Mom. Pat, Patricia.

Pat:  You said mom.

Ben:  BenGreenfieldfitness.com/PatGreenfield is where all the shownotes are and where you can leave your comments or your questions if you have follow-up questions. But, you guys wound up moving back to Idaho.

Pat:  Yup.

Ben:  You've never worn a headset in your head, have you? Alright, you guys be forgiving, this is my mom's first time wearing the headset with the microphone on.

Anyways, so you went back out to Idaho. And, what point did you guys start popping out kids?

Pat:  Well, we didn't find a job–

Ben:  I guess, you specifically popping up.

Pat:  We didn't find a job in Moscow, we found a job in Lewiston, which was 35 minutes south of Moscow.

Ben:  Right where I grew up.

Pat:  Yeah. Not only where you grew up but where we got into Ambulance and Fire Department, EMS, fire suppression. That was our thing we were into. Well, the family always had another part-time adventure of job or entrepreneurial.

Ben:  Yes, Dad was a serial entrepreneur.

Pat:  Yeah, he was.

Ben:  Yes, we talked about that very, very–

Pat:  I'd have to talk him into staying in a business because–

Ben:  He jumped from job to job to job to job. I remember it was like–

Pat:  Year and a half and then he'd go, “You know I'd like to do.” I'm like, “Ah.”

Ben:  I know. It's like a bagel franchise, a coffee house, a–

Pat:  Telephone answering company.

Ben:  A telephone communications company. Remember we had pagers. I was like, all my friends–well, not my friends, but the people who would first meet me and not know my background. And, I was this clean little Christian homeschooled kid from north thought was a drug dealer because I went over the pager because we had the first cell phone, a giant brick-sized cell phone with an antenna in the car.

Pat:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  We were super early adopters of technology.

Pat:  A lot of that influence was from papa.

Ben:  I was the first person amongst my friends to get a 56k modem. All the friends wanted to come over and play on our computers. We had one of the first Apple computers that came out, remember.

Pat:  And, all those cordless phones everywhere all over the house.

Ben:  Yeah, phones everywhere. I know it's kind of funny because now I'm like the low EMF guy.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  No smart homes and no dirty electricity.

Pat:  And, you're still alive.

Ben:  Yeah, no brain cancer yet. But, yeah, it was funny, we were very, very tech, which is really interesting.

Pat:  That was fun.

Ben:  Why did you guys decide to homeschool us?

Pat:  Oh, man. I don't know. We were, I was really into my kids. That was my life. You know what I mean? I mean, we had one, two, three, four kids and then eight years later, another kid. But, just really loved to be around my children. And, I just couldn't imagine sending them off for somebody else to have them all day to teach them when I had read up about homeschool and I knew that I could do it. Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. For me, my memories of homeschool and maybe you could tell the story better than I could because I have my own memories of how I was when I was a boy. But, maybe you have different memories. I feel like for me homeschool was to a certain extent me going to the library a lot, reading a lot of books, getting a lot of books from you guys, and just kind of going on my own adventure for a lot of it.

Pat:  You were very self-motivated and self-taught. I mean, some of the other kids if you gave them a book, you'd have to make sure they were reading it, and then you'd have to ask them at the end of every chapter. But, you just consumed everything we gave you to learn. And, you didn't necessarily need a lot of babysitting about it. So, that was nice. I mean, that's every homeschool parent's dream come true is a kid who will basically educate themselves on things.

Ben:  Right.

Pat:  And, that was real blessing, especially considering your brother older than you and your brother younger than you–

Ben:  Yeah. Well, my sons are the same way. I mean, we tell people we unschooled people. What do you mean you unschooled? Yeah, they have some classes and some certain things that they need to go like an online math class or a guy who comes over to the house and teaches them some stuff about financing, real estate. And, they go take little classes in town. They're on pottery class and jiu-jitsu–

Pat:  Yeah, like we did.

Ben:  And, it's similar to what we did. We had a homeschool co-op down in Lewiston, and it was really fun. We had a talent show. It was kind of just this collective of the island of misfit toys, all the people back then, now there's a lot more people at home school. But, in Idaho, just by the nature of it being Idaho had a pretty decent population.

Pat:  Yeah. We had 90 families in our home school.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I'll just give River and Terran, my sons, books and just tell them, learn this, write me a report, and they just do it. A lot of times I'll just leave books out and they just read them.

Pat:  When they're at my house, the way that they are motivated to learn is like you.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Just like you were.

Ben:  Yeah, they probably read somewhere in the range of six to a dozen books every week. Sometimes I get worried that they read too much, which I think is a good problem.

Pat:  Wow.

Ben:  Yeah. But, I was kind of similar, wasn't it?

Pat:  Yeah. Yeah, I remember when we'd have company, we'd have to tell you that you had to come up and greet the company, and then you could go back to your room.

Ben:  I remember that. I would get threatened with punishment because I didn't want to come out of my room. All I would do is stay in my room and read–

Pat:  And, Legos and books.

Ben:  Right. Read and Legos. Yeah.

Pat:  Yup, it's true. We use the intercom to get you upstairs so that you would interact with the people and it'd be like you're looking at your watch like, “Okay, I've been here two minutes, I'm going to go back down.”

Ben:  If you could go back, you think you'd still homeschool?

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  As much as like me, sometimes the kids say, “Oh, I wish I was this, and I wish I was that.” But, you know what, I think every educational system has its weakness. Homeschool does, private school does, public school does. I think that. So, I don't think that any of them are perfect, but I think it's what are you willing to live with as far as education, what are you willing to do to round out your kid's education.

Ben:  Yeah. I guess, this is kind of a selfless question, but did you think when I was growing up that I would be doing what I do now? Podcast, I guess podcasting exists. Of course, you didn't. but, media and books and stuff like that.

Pat:  Well, I knew that you would have something to do with writing books or reading books. I did know that because you were so passionate about reading and you like to write. And so, I knew that whatever you did even if it was a hobby, you'd be writing or reading. I didn't know that you would make a living out of it, but I also know that you're very, very driven.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Just very driven. And, I mean I feel you became my parent before you were even out of the house. Because it was very typical of you to be like, “Mom, do you think you ought to be doing that?” Kind of thing.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. I still do that too mostly, so with food, and nutrition, and health stuff now and buying you a fitness bicycle for Christmas. Yeah. No, I feel like that as well.

Pat:  I think I kept the humor in your life.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And so, there goes the dog going a little crazy. You're just going to have to sit out there.

So, one thing and I've told you this before in gratitude, I feel you influenced my ability as a writer much of the chagrin of many of the people who work with me because I'm such a stickler for editing. And, I'm always with the virtual red pen writing stuff up or seeing some ad somebody wrote on Facebook. And, dude, you totally should not use the word “amazing” there, you should use the word “stellar” or “explosive.”

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  And so, I do a lot of wordsmithing, a lot of wordsmithing, a lot of editing. I still am the guy who like I don't really like to do it, but I'm so picky, I almost have to do it. I'm the guy who edits my own books, edits my own articles. I'm a real stickler for high, high-quality writing. I think that if you can express your thoughts clearly in a written or spoken medium, you can go on and do just about anything in life because you can persuade, you can make an argument, you can convince people of things, you can inform people about cool things that you've discovered. And, that's really what I do and what I still love to do. And, my team often tells me, “Ben, 6,000-word blog post, nobody's going to read those.” I'm like, “Well, I read them.” So, that's kind of my shtick because I just do what I want to do and–

Pat:  I agree with you, yeah.

Ben:  –hope some other people are interested. But, you used to red pen me like crazy. I remember I would write an essay, I think it was perfect, come back and literally you'd be like the whole thing would be red, commas, and punctuation, grammar. But, where'd you get that?

Pat:  I don't know because I actually dropped out of high school a couple months before I graduated. And then, I went on to get my GED, but I dropped out of high school because my dad was really, really sick and I just couldn't stay around and watch him, I just want to take off. But, I was really interested in the different programs for homeschoolers even way back then. And so, the particular writing program that we chose was excellent. And–

Ben:  Literally, the Institute for Excellence in Writing.

Pat:  That's right. Andrew Pudewa.

Ben:  Andrew Pudewa.

Pat:  It's exceptional. He's still doing it and it's still one of the best.

Ben:  I know. You used to drive me up to his house in Moscow.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Like the half-hour drive. Occasionally once my older brother Isaac got old enough to drive and I got old enough to drive, we'd have math class and we had a writing class in Moscow and we would have races to see who could get to Moscow. We literally could get from Lewiston to Moscow driving 92 miles an hour in our family car in 18 minutes. And, we would be pedal to the metal like one person would look for the cops and the other person be driving. And then, occasionally, there'd be other kids with us in the back seat. His parents had no clue that the Greenfield boys were literally race car driving with their kids up to Moscow. But, we had math class, which I hated up there. I absolutely hated math. But, then we had the Institute for Excellence in Writing. I was so impressed with that course. And, take note, by the way, for anybody listening and wants to be a good writer, my sons, I don't know if you knew this mom, but every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, they are downstairs in the basement watching Andrew Pudewa videos and learning Institute for Excellence in Writing. It served me so well that I thought, “Geez, I want to give this gift to my own children.” I really want to give them the gift of writing every week. Well, not every week, about two to three weeks out of every month. I give them a book, a book that I've read that I really appreciated and learned a lot from. I tell them, write a book report on this. And, sometimes, I don't give them anything, sometimes I'll give them a gift card to People's Waffles if they write a really good essay. But, I realized, A, how much writing was important to me, and thank you for that because despite me getting really annoyed and pissed off at all your red lettering or red marks on all of my essays, it turned me into, I think, someone with decent writing chops. And, I would love for my sons to be able to do that.

Pat:  Absolutely, yeah.

Ben:  And, secondarily, living in an era of Twitter and short-form, and TikTok and shortened attention spans, not a lot of young people are growing up learning how to write with excellence.

Pat:  That's true. That is really true. I even read some of the papers from–I live within 8 miles, oh, I mean two universities, and then another private college.

Ben:  University of Idaho.

Pat:  Yeah. And, I've seen some of those papers, those–

Ben:  Washington State.

Pat:  Yeah. And, those people, they'll leave their papers at my pub, they'll just accidentally leave them there. And, I've looked through some of those papers and their notebooks and I'm like, “How old are these people that they could be writing so poorly?” and, somebody's got to grade this.

Ben:  Trust me, I know. I put out positions for my company in editing, and I think I just drive my team nuts because what will happen is they'll submit to me all the sample essays that the editors write in and I'm like, “This is great.” Sometimes a little brutal, I'm like, “What is this?” Like a 14-year-old? This is like a fifth grade.” And, like, “No, this was the top editor that came through on ProBlogger” or whatever. I'm like, “No way, you're kidding me.” And, I'm not saying this to sound arrogant, but I just think that, yeah, writing seems to be something that we've lost touch with.

Pat:  Oh, yeah, and it's gold.

Ben:  Yeah. I think that was one of the most important gifts that you gave me besides just teaching me how to love Jesus and have an upright life despite me kind of pushing against the goads and [00:56:43] _____ for a while and coming back full circle.

You mentioned your pub, and I definitely want to talk about that. But basically, there were five of us kids growing up. And, with Isaac, my older brother, kind of a little bit of a troublemaker, and now, he's a great guy, he's a farmer, and down in Moscow. And then, me and then my younger brother, Zach who's going to come over for steak tonight, and then my sister Natalie who's an amazing musician who lives in Arizona now. And then, Rosie, our adopted little girl. Tell people about, Rosie.

Pat:  What about Rosie? I mean, Rosie is amazing. She's absolutely wonderful.

Ben:  But, what was it that made you and dad want to bring another baby into the home after the rest of us? We're kind of sort of growing up a little bit.

Pat:  When we first got married, we said off and on for years while we were having kids, we said, “Wouldn't it be cool to da, da, da?” And, I don't want this to come off in any weird way, but it was so specific that we said to each other, “Wouldn't it be wonderful if God dropped a biracial infant into our lap?” That is what we would say to each other. And, I thought, number one, why did we say biracial? And, why'd it have to be an infant? And, all that kind of stuff. And, why do we want another kid? You know what I mean? We already had a lot of kids. and, I just thought, how would that ever happen? And so, your dad had just turned 40, I was going to be 40 in a month, I mean 40.

Ben:  And, your oldest kid was nine, I think, at the time, something like that, eight or nine.

Pat:  No, my youngest kid was eight.

Ben:  Youngest, yeah. Your youngest, yeah.

Pat:  And, you guys were all 11 and then teenagers. And so, it came through a phone call from a pregnancy center or whatever that this woman was pregnant and couldn't keep her child, and did we know anybody who might want to adopt this child. This child was going to be healthy and all this kind of stuff. And so–

Ben:  And, dad at the time was on the board of the pregnancy counseling center.

Pat:  One of them, yeah. Yeah. No, he was, I think he was, yeah, chairman of the board or something like that. So, he hung up the phone and he said, “What if this is”–because we had so many friends who already had biracial children or all kinds of diversity in their family. And so, we thought, we'll just tell them. They're younger than we are. They're in their 20s. They're in their 30s. And so, then dad said, “What about us?” I said, “What about us? We're 40.” He goes, “I know, but what if this is the time we always talked about?”

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And so, I said, “What are we supposed to do?” And, he said, “We have to put in a portfolio.” I didn't even know what a portfolio was. So, we stalled and waited around till the last day I did. And then, we wrote this thing. And then, the birth mother would get to choose the family. But, there weren't any contact information or anything. And, she would get to choose them. And so, she got so many portfolios. We knew that she wouldn't choose somebody whose kids were taller than they are. You know what I mean? Why would she do that?

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And, she chose us. So, we've always told Rosie that she was conceived to be a Greenfield.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I remember the best part about is you said you zipped your pants up and went to the hospital, pick up the baby.

Pat:  That's right.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  It was awesome because I gained a lot for the first four pregnancies. So, it was really nice to be able to throw my Levi's on.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

And so, in my podcast with dad, we talked about how he went through all these different businesses. And, I know that eventually, you guys separated. But, one of the businesses that he had been owning and operating along with you is what you still do to this day. So, tell me about your existence now down in Moscow and what that looks like, and what you do down there now.

Pat:  Okay. Well, 21 years ago, we found a kind of a rundown building on Main Street and fixed it up with another couple. So, there were four of us. And, we got bookshelves, we had some bookshelves built in there and a huge community table. And, I mean huge probably 4.5 feet wide, 14 to 16 feet long. And, that became the theme of the front room. Anyway, we fixed the whole thing up.

Ben:  I remember it was cool because you used to hire us to go in and beat stuff with chains, and make the walls all distressed, and paint, and yeah.

Pat:  And, it's brick, and it's wood, and it's leather, and it's very, very inviting and really warm. And, it has one, two, three, four, I mean five rooms and things. So, you can walk in the front door and end up in the alley behind because it's kind of long and skinny.

Ben:  Yeah. It's a combination, a coffee house and a pub. There used to be a cigar-smoking room.

Pat:  Yeah, there is, but the city outlawed smoking about nine years ago. But, we still sell cigars and pipe tobacco there.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And then, we also have somebody that we allowed to sell used books in there. We have thousands of used books and we sell a lot of books. I just make a small percentage often–

Ben:  As you can imagine, that was my favorite part about working there was all the books.

Pat:  Yeah, a lot of books. I mean, we sell so many books in a week. And, most of the money goes to the people who own the company. They keep the shelves tidy, they keep them organized, and everything like that, which I wouldn't want to do that. That's a lot of work. And then, I love music. So, we host live music every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night for the last 21 years. And, that's really fun. And, because–

Ben:  I don't think you said the name of it. It's called Bucer's.

Pat:  Oh, yeah, Bucer's, sorry.

Ben:  You guys have a website linked.

Pat:  Nobody says it right.

Ben:  B-U-C-E-R-S. Wasn't he a reformer?

Pat:  Yeah. He was a famous reformer.

Ben:  Yeah, Martin Bucer.

Pat:  Martin Bucer. But, the other couple really wanted to name it that and we didn't have any real solid ideas otherwise. So, we thought, “Yeah, you could probably memorize that.” People have a hard time knowing how to pronounce it. They call it Bucer's, or Bucer's, or Bucer's, or whatever. But, is very, very popular and it's in a college town. Well, there are two colleges in the Moscow and then Washington State University is just 8 miles away. And so, college students love coffee houses.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  So, in the summer, it's a little bit quiet there, but we're slammed all the day long. And, we have been for years.

Ben:  Is that weird for you to be managing a coffee house and you're surrounded by people all day long? Is it exhausting or what's it like?

Pat:  I love it. Remember, I'm the extrovert.

Ben:  Yeah. It would exhaust me. I'm an introvert.

Pat:  Yeah. I love it. I love it. As a matter of fact, it feels like my home. What we try to do there is make it feel like home to everybody who comes in so that they want to come back because it's a good feeling. There's something magical about it. And, that's what we hear all the time. And, we serve food there, we have a commercial kitchen, which is unusual for a coffee house. Usually, they just get their stuff farmed in, packaged in. Everything that we sell there, we make there, which is really cool. We roast our own coffee still all these years and we sell our coffee there, wholesale. I mean, sorry, by the bag of beans, and also in our espresso. And, we have really high standards for coffee and food and everything.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. It's a cool place. I mean, if anybody's listening and you're in Moscow, Idaho, you should swing by my mom's coffee shop. And, you may even meet her. We'll see.

But, speaking of food and coffee, this is something I was going to ask you that I didn't ask you but I want to ask it to you anyways because I get asked this by so many people. What did you eat growing up? What was your diet growing up? Because you mentioned that you were vegetarian from 12 to 17. But, did you have any nutritional philosophy in terms of the way you raised us kids? Or, was it just like figure out a way to get us calories?

Pat:  I thought I did. But, I mean we always had vegetables with things in ice. I mean, we always put vegetables in the meal, and meat, and everything. But, I mean, I've learned a lot from you. And, I've learned a lot over the years. I fed you better than [01:04:53] _____–

Ben:  I remember we did pots and stews and soups, yeah.

Pat:  That's because I grew up in a family with nine kids. and, my mother would make vats of things, just huge vats of things. And, I still make vats of things.

Ben:  That's what I remember, giant pots, giant vats, just tons of stuff like Texas black bean chili, and what was the other soup? It had potatoes. And, I forget–

Pat:  There's a New Brunswick stew.

Ben:  Yeah, the New Brunswick stew.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  And, I could never stomach the Texas black bean chili after my brother Isaac threw it up in the back of the car.

Pat:  He still won't eat it.

Ben:  I still couldn't eat it because I think about him throwing it up. But yeah, it was a lot of bulk stews and foods.

Pat:  Yeah. But, that's because of the habit I had at–

Ben:  Big Costco trips.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. I think I wrote this in a book once. Do you remember how you take us down to 29 cent hamburger and 39 cent cheeseburgers at McDonald's and we just buy bags and bags and bags and fill them up?

Pat:  I do remember doing that.

Ben:  In the Suburban.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. We would literally have hamburgers in the fridge for a week.

Pat:  Yeah. We've come a long way, baby.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I mean 21st Street in Lewiston Idaho had the Burger King, had the McDonald's. And, I remember my first year of college, I went to college in Lewiston at Lewis-Clark State College. I played tennis for the tennis team down there. And, I remember I would still stop at a McDonald's every day before tennis practice, get a super-sized Big Mac and fries, giant Dr. Pepper, suck that down, and go play tennis for three hours. I didn't know anything about nutrition. I'd be doing hill sprints and I'm like, “Why is my stomach” or while I'm doing these hill sprints. I remember I used to be super into milk too. I didn't know I was lactose intolerant.

Pat:  Yeah. Made you very sick. There was ambulance trips because of milk.

Ben:  Oh, yeah. I drink gallons. Literally on the day, I'd go through one to two gallons of just 2% milk from Albertsons and just have horrible stomach issues at night. And, I didn't even know there was such a thing as being taught. I just thought milk was the healthiest food on the planet. Clear white amazing nourishing fluid.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

And then, regarding the fitness, and movement, and sports piece, was that something you guys heavily emphasized? Or, did we just kind of pick that up on our own?

Pat:  We really wanted you guys involved in sports, but homeschoolers were limited. You were the first kid, I think, in the state of Idaho on public school sports.

Ben:  I remember something like that.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  I had to file a bunch of paperwork and stuff like that because I really wanted to play basketball.

Pat:  You actually were put on a varsity team but you were just in junior high.

Ben:  That's basketball. Or, no, that was for tennis. That was on the varsity team. Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah. So, we really wanted you guys to have that experience and was somewhat limited with homeschoolers. It's not anymore because there's so many club teams.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  I mean, there's so many club teams now that they don't differentiate. You mean, a lot of the public-school kids can be on club teams.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, you were super into music. I feel like I got some of that from you as well. Was that just your whole family?

Pat:  I think my parents did us a service. And, we tried to do that to you in getting you to understand the discipline of learning an instrument, learning music. So, you grew up playing the violin. I grew up playing the violin, and I was not the kind of kid that would play a violin. I mean, my mom was just like, you got to go, you got to do this, you got to take this class. And so, I think that the discipline of music was something that was really ground into me. So, I thought it was important to grind into you guys too.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  And, at least four of you kids are musicians.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Where you still as adults play the instrument.

Ben:  I think it's like learning a language if you learn to read notes. I took my sons to a violin concert the other night and they had the sheet music for the violinist, great band. They're called Black Violin. These hip-hop violinists. And, I walked by the table as I'm going into the symphony room, the symphony chamber, and I pick up their sheet music, and I start thumbing through it. I hadn't read violin music. And, gosh it's been 20 years, and it was literally reading a book. I could understand every note, every C, D, E, A. I saw the sequences. I knew the tunes. And, it's literally knowing a second language when you learn a musical instrument growing up. That, I think, in addition to writing was a huge gift.

Pat:  I think so too.

Ben:  Which should be, personally. Yeah, even though I eventually got to the point where violin wasn't cool and I switched to guitar–

Pat:  Either way, it's still the discipline of music.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Because tonight, you say you want to play a bunch of music after we're done here after dinner.

Ben:  That's what we're going to do.

Pat:  So, I mean I just think it's such a wonderful part of having it in your family and in your home.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  I mean, you have two brothers who are drummers and Zach plays guitar, and then Natalie is a singer and she's so good on piano. You know what I mean? And then, you play, well, guitar. You could probably still play violin. And then, you play your voice.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

So, in terms of just legacy, I'm curious. This might be one of the last questions I ask you. But, what's it like being a grandma?

Pat:  It's amazing. I love it. I just wish every one of them lived in my town. That would be easier to spoil them. But, I absolutely love being a grandma. I thought I would have more grandkids, but I'm very thankful for the nine that I have.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  Yeah. It's great.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  It is great. And, I want to know them. I want them to know me. I want to have influence on them. And, I want to assist and support their parents and whatever their parents are trying to do. You know what I mean? I don't want to do anything to cause my grandkids to not listen to their parents or to not honor their family.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. Very matriarchal role.

Pat:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  It's fun. But, I also spend my entire day finishing raising people's teenagers and stuff because I have 25 college kids working for me–

Ben:  That's true. You can just have college students all over.

Pat:  All day long. Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. Well, two of your grandsons, River and Terran, they want to go down to that New St. Andrews College down there and news flash. I've kind of alluded to this a few times on podcast, but it's looking very much like I'm going to be moving to it to a tiny little off-grid community.

Pat:  [01:10:52] _____.

Ben:  Yeah, about 10 minutes outside of Moscow in the backwoods of Idaho. So, I'll probably be down there too.

Pat:  That'll be great.

Ben:  Yeah.

Pat:  I like that too.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, it was fun talking to you, mom, and getting to know my own mom. I think the microphones hot. And, I don't know. You've ever been on podcast before?

Pat:  No. How would I ever have been on a podcast?

Ben:  I don't know. but, maybe you'll get invited on a whole bunch of podcasts now.

Pat:  No, I think I sound like a 12-year-old boy on this.

Ben:  No, you sound great, mom. You did well. And, for those of you listening and if you have questions from my mom, or comments, or feedback, you can go to BenGreenfieldfitness.com/PatGreenfield. I'll put all the shownotes there. And, I'll put a link to the podcast that I do with my dad too if you want to listen to the one with my dad and get the one-two combo. You can feel free. And then, if you're ever in Moscow, right, mom, swing by Bucer's, say hi to my mom, have a cup of coffee, have some quiche, or one where they're like peanut butter, what's the one that I eat? The peanut butter chocolate truffles.

Pat:  Well, they can make it all in the cookbook, in the eBook.

Ben:  That's right. I convinced my mom and my entrepreneurial spirit to launch a cookbook for her coffee shop now. So, if you go to her website.

Pat:  During COVID.

Ben:  I'll link to it in the shownotes. But, yeah, you can get her cookbook and try some of their famous coffeehouse recipes down there.

So, mom, thanks for coming on the show.

Pat:  Love you, son.

Ben:  Well, I'm Ben Greenfield signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com. Have an amazing week.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be. And, just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode, say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot. 



17 March 2022

My interview with my father Gary Greenfield (“Why Water, Sunlight, Grounding & Relationships Are The Keys To Your Health & How To Feed, Clean & Protect Your Body Forever: An Interview With Ben Greenfield’s Father Gary Greenfield) was such a hit that today I am bringing to you the official interview in which I put my own mother, Pat Greenfield, in the hot seat.

My mom currently lives in Moscow, Idaho, and runs Bucer's Coffeehouse & Pub (if you're ever in the area and have a craving for some house-roasted coffee, homemade pastries, hearty sandwiches, amazing local draught beers, or fine wines).

Get ready for a wild ride and amazing conversation with my mom, in which we discuss my own upbringing, diets, health food, coffee, her move to Idaho, trauma, homeschooling, and much, much more!

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-Pat's upbringing and adopting a vegetarian diet as a child…09:00

  • Alpena, Michigan, right on Lake Huron
  • Youngest of nine girls (akin to having nine mothers)
  • Father was a pitcher for a minor league baseball team but had to retire due to a freak injury
  • Father began girl's little league baseball in the town
  • The town's field was named after him

-Moving out of the house, striking out on her own…13:40

-Moving to Idaho…40:00

-What kind of student was Ben Greenfield?…46:33

  • “Couldn't imagine sending them off when I could teach them myself”
  • Ben was always an autodidact (a self-taught person)
  • Every educational system has its weakness; have to make do with the best that works for you
  • Pat knew that Ben would end up reading/writing as an adult
  • Mom's perennial red pen was a heavy influence on Ben's wordsmithing abilities
  • Institute for Excellence in Writing

-Gushing over Rosie, the adopted child…53:23

  • “Wouldn't it be great if God dropped a biracial kid in our lap”

-How Pat spends her days in Moscow, ID currently…1:00:35

-Pat's food philosophy raising her children…1:04:14

  • Veggies and meat; giant vats of soups and stews
  • Would also stock up on McDonald's and other fast foods

-How the Greenfield kids got into music, athletics, and fitness…1:06:47

  • The discipline of learning musical instruments and reading music

-What is it like to be a grandma?…1:09:38

-And much more!

Upcoming Events:

Resources from this episode:

– Pat Greenfield:

– Podcasts & Articles:

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for my mom Pat Greenfield or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

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