April 25, 2024

From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/waveguardpodcast/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:04] Who is Hagen Thiers?

[00:02:26] What is electro hypersensitivity?

[00:11:07] The difference between thermal and non-thermal radiation

[00:16:50] Ben’s hypothesis

[00:22:49] Building a radiation-free home

[00:30:08] The development of WaveGuard Technologies

[00:34:52] How do wave guard home protection devices work?

[00:45:37] The size and coverage area of different devices

[00:47:45] Ben's ad for the house

[00:49:25] WaveGuard plans and future products

[00:54:01] How big of an issue is Starlink and Li-Fi

[00:56:26] Studies that claim harmonizers work

[01:06:44] End of Podcast

[01:07:45] Legal Disclaimer

Ben:  My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Hagen:  We put our device inside of the room, and then what we saw is that this field strength is being reduced. And, this is literally how we were first able to verify our devices and the field strengths protection. And, this is something which is really nice because it's actually according to the World Health Organization that it says, “Radiation protection means you're exposed to a lower field strength.” And, this is exactly what the wave card devices are doing and we are able to reduce the field strength by up to 85% in the 5G frequencies depending on how close you are to the radiation.

Ben:  Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this.

Well, if you've visited me at my house before and been wandering around, you may have seen these strange circular items on each floor of the house or if you open my refrigerator, maybe this kind of cylindrical object that almost looks like it fell off of an alien spaceship. These things that are scattered around my home are called Waveguards. They've been developed by this company called Qi, Q-I. And, the whole story behind them has to do with this concept of something called electro hypersensitivity. I'll let my guest explain a little bit more about what that is. But, if you're interested in things like EMF protection, electromagnetic radiation, smart homes versus dumb homes and the like, this is going to be interesting show for you.

My guest is Hagen Thiers. Hagen is the inventor of this technology. I realize many people are kind of skeptical of these technologies and how they work and whether you're just paying for some overpriced chip that is just full of a placebo effect. But, I'm very interested in this whole field myself of protecting us from EMF. So, I figured I'd get Hagen on the show and chat a little bit about this.

So, Hagen, welcome to the show, man.

Hagen:  Thank you. I'm so pleased and happy to be here.

Ben:  Yeah. Hey, so I just have to ask you right off the bat. Do you have electro hypersensitivity? I'm just curious if that's what got you interested in all this in the first place.

Hagen:  Yes, I have been diagnosed with electro-hypersensitivity when I was a child. That's true. And, I still suffer from that.

Ben:  How do you test? How do you test for something like that?

Hagen:  For me, it is really obvious. For instance, with sleeping disorder. So, when I'm not protecting myself and my environment from the EMF effects, my sleep, if I'm exposed to a 5G signal, it will go pretty much down to, well, one, two hours a day, which I can only fall asleep and sleep really. For me, my sleep quality drops tremendously, and also I get headaches and other problems.

Ben:  So, when you were a kid, and I'm assuming your parents brought you to a doctor or something to get this diagnosis of electro hypersensitivity, were they just like, “Hey, he's not sleeping well” and the doctor said, “He's electro hypersensitive.”

Hagen:  Well, it was kind of like that. I was always getting the pain at my ear and in my headaches when I was using the wireless phone, which they just installed into the house.

Ben:  Wait, how old were you?

Hagen:  I was at that time around 11.

Ben:  Okay, alright.

Hagen:  Yeah. So, they found out like that that it's causing damages to me and I'm coming from a family, which is the fourth generation of a mechanical engineering family. And so, my father then really looked into that what he can do to our house in terms of shielding, in terms of any kind of changes in the environment, and what kind of devices and solutions are out there to really help me with that. And then, we were going there a little bit on an embargo and we were looking to get everything and we tried everything out. And, we found like, wow, that is really a problem. And then, you look into this issue and you find out that so many people seem to have some issues about this and even most of the people don't even know they have an issue but they are affected.

And, if you're talking to the people, then you find out, wow, yeah, there is really a problem there and the people are just not really aware about it. And so, when we found out that I'm not the only one with that issue and shielding is not always the perfect solution and it's not very handy, and then we were going on a mission to look, okay, is there a possibility to mitigate the effects from EMFs to our bodies?

Ben:  You and your dad went on that adventure of learning more about this.

Hagen:  Yes.

Ben:  So, back to the electro hypersensitivity thing, very curious because it seems kind of loosey-goosey like, “Hey, I'm not sleeping well,” because obviously as you know, that could be, I don't know, drop in melatonin production. It could be the temperature of the room. It could be a food allergy. It could be inadequate intake of specific nutrients or vitamins or minerals like magnesium. So, in our day and age, it seems like there's got to be a more precise way to analyze for this like HRV or some kind of a better test for electro hypersensitivity than just, “Hey, I'm not feeling well and it seems to increase when I'm around electricity.”

Hagen:  Well, I would really suggest sleeping analyzing devices, some real good sleep trackers like the Oura Ring or Biostrap or something like that since usually we have a pretty clean baseline when it comes to the regards of sleeping. So, usually, we're not changing on bed every day. We're usually having somewhat the same temperatures in the same period and season time of the year. And, we are usually also are pretty consistent in our diets, most of the people. So, when you're then starting to say, “Okay, I want to find out how sensitive I am about this,” then shut off Wi-Fi then start to shield yourself and turn your phones off and don't have them into your bedroom, don't have electric devices plugged in when you're having a bedroom with a TV. Pull it out at night. And, things like that reduce the amounts of EMF in your bedroom and see over a period of seven days when you're just taking these precautions when you're going to bed how your sleep and how your sleep index is improving. And usually, that is really significant. And, for people especially which are in the range below 80% of their sleep efficiency, I would really strongly suggest to go to this protocol to really find out how strong already their effects on their body are.

And, when we find out that our index and our sleep efficiency is having an effect if we are reducing EMFs and it gets better, then it is also showing us very clearly we have a sensitivity there. And, that does not just occur during the night but it occurs during the whole day when we are also exposed. And then, it's really starting to become an issue that we are saying, “Okay, then I also need to take some precautions during the daytime to reduce oxidative stress, inflammation, and other problems in our body.”

Ben:  Well, does that mean though if you don't sleep well–I mean, let's say if you do this test, right? I'm going to unplug as many things in my bedroom as I can, make sure my phone's in Airplane mode and then compare my sleep when I do that versus when I don't. Does that mean you're electro hypersensitive or you have electro hypersensitivity? Or, does that just mean you're a person and everybody is subject to some amount of sleep disruption just from stimuli whether it's light or electricity or anything else? It seems there's kind of a fogginess around whether it's a condition or whether you're just reducing stimuli and sleeping better. Does that make sense?

Hagen:  Well, if we take it really serious, then let's face it, electro-sensitivity is nothing which is really saying, “Okay, you need to have this kind of diagnosis and then you're for sure electrosensitive person.” But, what is it about if you're having symptoms, if you're having reactions, if you are having a disorder in your body which is caused by this kind of sources? Then it means that's an issue. And, if you can embetter your health while taking some precautions, that's a good thing. And, the World Health Organization is, for instance, very clear about their ways of viewing about radiation and they're saying the lower the amount of field strength is, which you're exposed to, the better that is. And so, it is always a safe way to go that.

And, we have to remember that this is nothing natural which we're any more exposed to. You just had Dr. Mercola on your podcast some time ago and he was also just explaining it again, right? One billion times higher is the exposure and even bit more compared to 100 years ago. And, this is something which we just have to remember that our exposure is nothing which our body is used to. We are also working in a very similar principle that we are using these electro stimulations that we are using signaling in our bodies that our cells are communicating. And, this is all usually in a frequency which is below 100 hertz.

So, when we are surrounded by fields which are using a much higher frequency and much more power, there's almost always some kind of interference. And, the thing is that almost every person is having a reaction in the form of stress. So, cortisol production and adrenaline production is going up when you're exposed to radiation and this is regarding if you're electrosensitive or not.

Ben:  Yeah, exactly. Everybody's going to be a little bit sensitive to, you said, hertz frequencies that are above 100. It's my understanding, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of the natural frequencies you'd get if you were say walking barefoot outside or grounding or earthing or swimming in the ocean, they range from zero to 100 and not a lot higher. Even a lot of these health devices like the PEMF devices, the max hertz frequency you could set them or a red light stimulating devices on is 100 hertz. So, you're saying once you go above that, that's where damage would set in. But then, at the same time, if I were using say a PEMF mat for inflammation or sleeping on a grounding or earthing mat or something like that, and I'm getting exposed to hertz frequencies that are below 100, that's not the kind of electricity that we're talking about as being bad.

Hagen:  Exactly. So, everything which is coming to the regards of communication devices when you're going everything, which is above the 100 hertz, usually I have started to study the things and focus on my research, everything above 800 megahertz. And, there is also a very clear relation that when we look into the studies that it shows us the higher the frequency, the more is the nonthermal biological unhealthy effects. And, this is something which we have to be mindful about. So, everything which is using a higher frequency is usually having a higher disturbance in our body's functioning.

Ben:  And, when you say non-thermal, what you're referring to is not the heating of the tissue but that's still an entirely different issue? Like, if I hold my cell phone up to my head, that can actually cause thermal radiation in addition non-thermal radiation, right?

Hagen:  Exactly. So, when we're looking into the studies and there is a big research community, which is saying we are not just looking at the thermal problem, which is talking about that we are heating our tissues by around 2 degrees Celsius by a 30-minute phone call, that this is somewhat the maximum limit of what the safety standards are and which we find in the user manuals and the government obligations to which they put to the mobile phone production companies. But, the more concerning part for me is, and this is according with the scientific community is that the higher the frequency is, the more there is side effects happening in your body, that there is not anymore the right communication going on, that there is hormonal disbalance, that you have oxidative stress reactions, maybe fertility issues and things like that. And, that's why for me, if I'm looking on the chart of dangerousness, then it is about having lower frequency exposure.

So, many people also ask me, what is worse like using the phone on my ear or using maybe some Bluetooth headsets because it's convenient? And, I don't maybe have so many mindful and good choices by hand. So then, what is the better choice? And, if you have a choice to go for something below 1,000 megahertz of the signal, which is Bluetooth compared to using the phone on your ear which is maybe using 5G in the United States with 5.5 gigahertz, then definitely Bluetooth would be still the safer option in the terms of the frequency exposure, which is very near to your body. And, this is something which we can also keep in mind if we're not maybe completely alu-foil guys hats, which are trying to protect ourselves all day in every scenario but we still want to do some mindful choices. This is the first one. Reduce the frequency which you're exposed to. And, this is by distance using maybe the speaker on the phone or voice messages. Keep them in airplane mode, the phone. And then, just after you've recorded everything, just put it into the corner and shut the Airplane mode off and be far away from that device if you're having connection to it.

Ben:  Yeah, I got that advice a long time ago. I think it was Dr. Mercola and I do that quite a bit. I'll record a bunch of stuff, do all my stuff in airplane mode or as much as I can, schedule things, reply to things, then flip the phone on and it sends everything. It's a great tip. It works pretty well. You can do a lot just put the phone in airplane mode. There's still some limitations, but it's a good general practice.

The Bluetooth thing, you might know more about this than me, but it's my understanding that there's different class levels of Bluetooth and a class 1 signal is going to be a little bit more of a problem than say a class 2 or a class 3 signal. Is that true?

Hagen:  Well, you have different ones and they have also changed that. So, in the previous generations, I think you wear around 800 megahertz. And nowadays, the newest ones which are really much stronger in the newest generation, you're going up to 2.4, 2.5 gigahertz. And, this is one of the newer technologies. But, if you're comparing that to a phone, which is using already 5.5, you're already speaking about a significant drop there. But, for sure, the safer option is to go without Bluetooth headphones for sure. I'm not recommending to go for them, but if it's about having one or the other choice, then you might be mindful and it's good to know the what is what.

Ben:  Yeah. I mean, I just upgrade to the Apple iPhone 15. The first thing I did was I went to Amazon, I bought two sets of the USB-C wired headphones because that's what I use half the time. Getting tangled up with those in the gym or putting them, yeah, put them in your pocket, creating the strongest knot known to humankind is not that convenient. But, I still feel way better than when I wear Bluetooth all day long with the EarPods. You think the Apple EarPods, is that the 2-plus gigahertz frequency that you're talking about with Bluetooth?

Hagen:  I believe so, yes.

Ben:  Okay. Do you know if there's EarPods that are slightly lower in terms of the hertz frequency or if there are things look for in EarPods? They're all the higher frequency?

Hagen:  Yes. They're pretty much at the same standard, yes, and they are using usually now the same technology in the Bluetooth. And, you're much safer to have distance to your phone to use voice messages and things like that. But, if you have to be on a call, then I would still rather be on a headset connected and using the phone straight at my ear.

Ben:  What about the wearables that a lot of people are using like the Oura, you mentioned the Biosensor? These obviously have Bluetooth. Is it as high a frequency as EarPods?

Hagen:  Well, that's usually the thing that if we are talking about Bluetooth headset, we need to have a constant connection. And, most of the wearables, they are only building up a connection when they're connected to the phone. And so, for instance, I was testing out the Biostrap. And, they are literally just turning on the Bluetooth at the time when you're going into the app and synchronizing your data of the day.

And so, when I was tracking my sleep with these devices and with these wearables, it was actually kind of fine because they don't have an active connection. And then, just in the evening when I wanted to see my data on the next morning after some sleep diagnostics basically, then I could take off the tracker. I could put it next to the phone and go into the app and upload it. And, until this time, it was actually not having any Bluetooth connections.

Ben:  Okay. That's useful to know.

So, the electro hypersensitivity piece, it's interesting because I kind of scoffed at that for a while and then I met multiple people. And, I don't think they were lying to me who just freak out when the Wi-Fi was on or who literally couldn't go to an Airbnb or a hotel. I've done consults with these people because they asked me about what dirty electricity filters to buy or these clothing like the Lambs or the No Choice you could wear on an airplane. And, it's obviously a big issue for them. I don't think it's all placebo. I don't think it's in their heads because they can just tell when they walk into a room and their heart rate goes up and their stress levels go up and their HRV drops and they don't even have to check to see if there's Wi-Fi on in the room or not.

So, I believe that it's a thing, but I'm just curious, I kind of have this hypothesis that a lot of people who struggle with electro hypersensitivity, they also have things like poor toxin clearance from sluggish methylation pathways, possibly a little bit of what would be called cell danger response syndrome from previous mold or mycotoxin exposure or even a stealth coinfection like say Lyme or Epstein-Barr. And, of course, what goes hand-in-hand with many of these conditions is also high metal load, mercury, lead, aluminum, et cetera, which could in a way if you think about it almost serve to turn the body into a little bit more of an antenna that's more sensitive, these type of signals. 

So, could you say, well, you could set up a series of test where you're not just looking at sleep data but you're saying, “Hey, are you a poor methylator? Do you have high metal load? Do you have excess sympathetic nervous system activation? Perhaps sluggish detoxification pathways, which you could also determine from a genetic test.” And then, you could step back and say, “Okay, you're definitely someone who has a cluster of testable problems that would render you to be more electro hypersensitive and make you a person who would really want to pay even more attention to the type of things you and I are talking about right now.”

Hagen:  Well, I think that is maybe a little bit distracting that subject because it takes maybe away the part that you think, okay, I'm maybe not electrosensitive in the first place. We have to remember, we all are affected by these issues. And, to protect ourselves and have some conscious and mindfulness behavior with our devices, which we use, is the key in the first place to protect ourselves to do some sorts of shielding and protection and to be mindful. And, this is the first two parts and it doesn't matter so much. Sure, if you're having more heavy metals in your body, more amalgam. If you have some metal in your teeth, of course, that is going to increase your problem. But, in the first place, you got to stop the damage of happening to your body and then you can also start to reduce it and also those metals, they can contain more energy, they can contain more of the radiation in the body and store it in that way. And then, that is a whole different subject if we are talking about recovering from the radiation damages which happen to ourselves. Then, we are in more of a medical field and we're talking about the recovery part.

But, first of all, I think it's most important that people establish a baseline, which is that they are having a safe surrounding that they're having a safe home that they're sleeping well and that they're giving their body time to also heal from this constant stress and inflammation which is being inflicted to their body. And, this is the number one thing which we have to be mindful about to stop the damage of happening in the first place.

Ben:  Yeah, I certainly don't disagree with you. And, that's a good point that you brought up, by the way, with the amalgam and the mercury in the mouth. That's another big issue that I think would correlate with this. But, I mean, you brought it up in the first place, right? Like, diagnosed as a kid, and just the fact that there is a diagnosis floating around out there of electro hypersensitivity would dictate certain people are going to be more sensitive. Even though everybody's sensitive, there's varying levels of sensitivity. Is that fair to at least say that?

Hagen:  Yes. So, we have, for instance, the Electrical hypersensitive Club in Germany.

Ben:  Oh, there's a club. Wow.

Hagen:  Yeah, yeah. And, we donate devices there. And, there are people which are really highly affected there. And, I met some of the clients. I met their leaders and I spoke with them. They were visiting some presentations of mine and so on. And, I spoke to them and something which is actually recognized is that it can go so far that literally your eye tissues, your eyelid is basically starting to react and that your eyes literally turn blind even if you're opening your eyes when you're exposed to radiation. And, these were some of the really, really sensitive persons.

If you're going into the extreme paths of electro-sensitivity, then you find some real interesting people and it's fascinating to learn about their effects on them. And, they have been really diagnosed. They have been having a very different life because they can literally not anymore go into a city. When they're wearing shielded clothing, they cannot anymore go into a city because their face is exposed and they're literally losing their sight and losing variety of sensors in their bodies. And, this is then when it becomes very serious, obviously.

Ben:  Yeah, probably just because we know that there's excess calcium influx into cells in response to non-native EMF above 100-hertz frequency. What those people are probably experiencing is excess depolarization of the ocular musculature or some of the optic nerves, don't you think?

Hagen:  Yes. Well, in Germany, it's called [00:22:28] _____. I'm not familiar unfortunately with the English name of it, but it's literally the tissue of your eye, which is being affected by higher frequency above 100 hertz, which is starting to react and literally give off its function of passing off the optical signals which we are receiving in our eye and passing them through the brain. This is literally stopping to function.

Ben:  So, is this true that you live in a radiation-free home?

Hagen:  I'm building that right now. I have lived in a variety of places, been a little bit while travel, if you want to say so, I built a radiation-free house completely without electricity in Finland where my two kids are born in that house. And then, a couple of years later in Germany, I was building a house which was actually kind of a smart house, you could say, but it was still EMF free, which was very interesting that I tried to find a balance between convenience and low radiation. And, right now, I live in Dubai. And here, I think it's much more interesting challenge to actually live a EMF-free life, but it also is actually working quite well. And, I have created some EMF-free curtains which are blocking out everything which is coming from the inside. Everything is wired. I'm also wired now to the ethernet cable. And so, you can actually experience that. I have a Faraday cage around my home as of the Waveguard devices, which I have here and which I use to further depolarize everything.

And so, actually, I'm doing pretty well on the part that I have almost in the whole apartment now, almost zero field.

Ben:  Yeah. But, if you have a Faraday cage around your home, you would have to make sure if you are inside the home connected to technology you're doing as you're doing and everything's wired, right? Because otherwise, signals are just bouncing around and trapped inside.

Hagen:  But, if you're earthing and also the electromagnetic field is also being picked up and also being grounded, and that is something which most people underestimate, the part of the real grounding. And, if you're just having a Faraday cage canopy silver [00:24:27] ____ kind of thing which you're throwing over your bed, you're not going to reach the results. After a short time, after a couple of hours, you're going to already have again electromagnetic fields inside of your bed. And so, it is really about to actually ground the conductive fabrics. And, that's actually doing the real trick, so then also the bouncing around doesn't happen because then we are almost talking about like a lightning, which is traveling to a house and then being grounded. And so, the EMFs are going out of your apartment if you're grounding it. And, this is what I have done here so I have taken some metal clips, conductive wires and I put them to some grounding sockets.

Ben:  Yeah, that's the same as I have in my bed. In my master bedroom is a Faraday cage that I had Shielded Healing design for me. And, it is grounded so when it goes down around you, you're not bouncing and accumulating more EMF signals inside of. It works really well. I can't make a phone call, send a text message. So, it definitely works. They'll cut off to the world. My wife doesn't like it so much. She doesn't think it's that sexy, but I actually sleep better when that thing is closed down around the bed.

What was interesting though was something you said about how you kind of figured out how to get some of the conveniences of a smart home, and I don't know what those conveniences are I'd love to hear you talk about them, but still be able to mitigate the amount of radiation in the home. Did you have any examples of what you did?

Hagen:  Well, for instance, so I built a whole house with KNX so that you basically can shut off every socket and every electricity plug in your house.

Ben:  Wait, wait, wait. Do you mean a master kill switch in the circuit room?

Hagen:  No. So, basically, a real smart house like we build it in Germany and I know we're a bit crazy when it comes to engineering so we have to level up a bit here. I don't know where you guys are standing there in the U.S., but basically, we are using the system here called KNX. And basically, what this is doing–and this was nice since we re-renovated the house completely from scratch, so we also did all of the wiring. And so, what happens there is that every power socket which you have in your house is getting an additional cable and is being numberized. So basically, you can tell the electricity to stop flowing to that exact plug. So, if you're having three, four electric plugs in your living room, in each corner maybe one, then they all can get a name, they all can get some kind of link and address which you can address it, and then they all shut off individually.

And so, this is something, what we use in Germany. So, you can basically say “power off living room light” or something like that. And then, the power is completely being shut off to that socket so that it's empty. And so, the whole house was built like that that you could basically singlehandedly and verbally even could actually control your whole house. So, we had there a tablet, which was attached to the wall and it was also plugged in and wired in and you could give it voice controls. And, you could control every socket in your house like that and you could also say, “Okay, turn on the garage gates or turn off the outside lights” and things like that since everything was communicating by cable, had a name, was addressed. And then, literally, the power would go on and off according to your commands. You could also specify at which times of days and nights it would turn off. And then, additionally to that, at each bedroom, we had a kill switch for that bedroom completely.

Ben:  That's pretty impressive. I thought my home was tricked out here in Spokane because I have a kill switch in each bedroom and then a master kill switch in the circuit room. But man, you're going above and beyond.

If somebody is listening and they aren't have access to rewire the whole home, could you to a certain extent just use a dirty electricity filter in the outlets of each room that's going to help a little bit?

Hagen:  It's not really the same to not have an electromagnetic field and to have dirty electricity in your home. Those are heaven and earth apart. We are talking about that you're not taking up any of the high electromagnetic fields to your body. And, this is one level. And then, dirty electricity is a more dangerous level, but you're not with a filter for dirty electricity, you're not taking away the problem of being affected by electromagnetic fields.

Ben:  KNX. So, this isn't a technology you developed, this is a technology that someone could outfit as they build out a home?

Hagen:  No, this is one of the common standards for building smart homes in Germany, which is not just that you address everything with Alexa and so on. But, that's basically when you're building a house, then every socket and every power line gets an additional data cable, which is communicating. And then, you have basically a software, which is regulating that and you can use that all wired. And then, you have somewhere, we had it in our living room, we have basically one tablet, which could listen to you and you could give voice commands but it would not have any Wi-Fi on, it wouldn't have any Bluetooth on. And, you could say literally any power to go on and off. And, you could also, for instance, control everything, which is regarding electricity, which is really nice. So, you didn't have to use any Wi-Fi and you didn't have to have any of this, but you could interact verbally with your whole house or just go to the tablet and do everything manually and say, okay, I want to open now the gates to the estate or something like that.

Ben:  That's cool. That's almost like a hardwired version of Alexa.

Hagen:  Yes, exactly. That's basically what it comes down to. It's just a hell lot of wiring which is being done there.

Ben:  Yeah, for sure. I'll link, by the way, to some of these technologies. The shownotes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Waveguardpodcast. That's BenGreenfieldLife.comWaveguardpodcast.

So, you were talking about your dad before I derailed you and we went into some other avenues and how he's a mechanical engineer and started to build out technologies with you when you were a teenager. Is that what led to the development of the Waveguard Technologies?

Hagen:  Ultimately, it did. Yes. So, my father and I, we were testing out all kinds of products. And also, the first couple of harmonizers were out there at the market already. We didn't really find any significant effects from that.

Ben:  What's a harmonizer?

Hagen:  Oh, that's like this kind of stickers and pendants which you can put on your phones and put on your electrical meter in your house and so on, which is from trying to harmonize the negative effects from you.

Ben:  Okay.

Hagen:  I think that's the stuff what you find most on Amazon under 50 bucks if you're looking for EMF protection.

Ben:  Yeah. Okay.

Hagen:  It's this kind of stickers and patches. And, usually, they call themselves harmonizers. That's not really a qualified word since they cannot say that they're reducing or protecting you, so it's a different thing. So, they're just trying to make it less harmful.

Ben:  Okay.

Hagen:  And yeah, we looked into that. And then, what we found out is, and we came across that liquids have some potential and we were experimenting and working there with the University of Milan in Italy and working with them and we found that, okay, if you can let a radiation and the radio wave interact with the conductive liquid, that actually there is happening something which seems to be very positive for our biological being and for our body.

And so, this is what we were then experiencing. We built prototypes then and this was really early on. We tried to find a solution for myself and then becoming into those electrosensitive clubs. And then, we handed out also some prototypes to them after I said I feel better with this. And then, we gave them a survey and the time for two weeks to test this out and this prototypes, which we're using these conductive liquids. And, they really help them and they didn't want to return the prototypes. We said like, “No, no, no, you really got to give this back.” This is not on the market yet. Nothing like this. And, they said like, “We don't want to give it back. We finally feel better. Our symptoms are getting better.” And so, they said, “Name your price.” And, that was when we started like, wow. Here is really something. We're on to something.

And then, there was some big events happening in my personal life. I was gone and was living in nature for a couple of years completely EMF-free in the polar circle area of Finland. And so, then I came back, and then we restarted this project and then we also found out that there is now actually studies which were comforting and also so validating what we have been already experiencing in our prototypes, which was that depolarization is happening and that you can actually depolarize radio waves if you're letting them interact or pass through liquids. And, what's basically happening is that you're dispersing them on a wider area. And, that's why the intensity is not anymore so focused to your body but more laid out. And, that seems to be something which is rather natural. So, all of the radiation, which we're exposed to from Earth, is always affecting our whole body and not just a single point, at our ear, at our brain and not just affecting some specific tissue. Very concentrated, but it's always laid out on the whole body.

And, this means that the body is also feeling by all sensors and all cells some kind of pressure and starts to basically function and say, “Okay, I need to counteract these negative effects.” And, this is something what our technology is doing that we are basically laying out the effects from a small area to big area from the radio waves which come in from your Wi-Fi or the neighbor's Wi-Fi or the 5G tower, which you cannot turn off which is around the corner and things like that. And so, basically, you're spreading out the exposure from a small area to big area. And, this is how we found that the field strength is reduced. So, we could show that in, I think it's around 12 or 13 studies, which we did on field strength reduction with our devices. And then, we also found out, okay, that the biological side effect are also not anymore there if you're depolarizing radiation.

Ben:  How do you actually make a conductive liquid?

Hagen:  Well, that's the proprietary part of the Waveguard, which is why we haven't been copied yet. But, this is the fascinating part because you need to be able to basically have this kind of effects to not just flood your whole apartment with this liquid but actually have it conductive in a bigger area.

Ben:  Well, yeah, that's what I was going to ask you because the way you just described things to me, it seems like I'd have to take my Wi-Fi router or my computer or whatever and just put it inside a box that has this conductive liquid inside the wall of the box, but obviously, you're not doing that.

I have one of your devices. One of your devices is 5 feet away from me. It's at the base of my desk. I keep it under there. I have another one under the kitchen table. I have another one on the third floor of the house. So, these are the Waveguard home protection devices. I'm obviously not surrounded by the thing, it's just sitting there. So, how does that even work if it's full of this proprietary conductive liquid as far as protecting me?

Hagen:  Basically, we have to see it in the way that we have measured the range. And, it's some of the parts which we get a lot of interesting questions about. How does this really work in the distances? And so, that's why we have just measured it. And basically, what it's replicating is a scenario that you would just flood your whole apartment with saltwater. Saltwater would be also a very possible way of depolarizing radiation. So, if you're just living in a saltwater surrounding, then you also would have the same effect that you are having a dispersed radio frequency just hitting your body instead of a concentrated one. But, that's not really usually the possible way for us to just live in a scuba diving equipment. And, that's why the question is, how do you reach this result without flooding your apartment?

And so, this is basically what we have done with the Qi devices. And, we have been measuring them in the most technically advanced institutions around the world. For instance, the Eurofin, DNB or, for instance, the TUV`, which is I think the biggest technical institution around the world, which is verifying the builds of bridges, cars, engines, emissions and everything like that, which is everything, which is regarding technical, with around 250,000 employees I think just in Europe. And so, they have the setup which they build up. And, this is how we validated our technology and which is making us completely unique. Nobody else has done that yet. 

So basically, there is a shielded room. There's no kinds of EMFs in any part of the room, everything is completely shielded off. And then, you're putting in a sensor and you're putting in an antenna and then you're producing over a signal generator. You're producing the specific frequencies like Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, 5G. And then, you're putting, for instance, the 5G frequency. Let's stick to that example. With 5.5 gigahertz and you're distributing it inside the room and it's traveling from one place to the another. And so, the only thing in this room in that moment is this 5G, 5.5 gigahertz frequency, which is traveling. And, you can say, “Okay, it's supposed to be 1 volt per meter in terms of power.” And then, we put our device inside of the room and then what we saw is that this field strength is being reduced. And, this is literally how we were first able to verify our devices and the field strengths protection. And, this is something which is really nice because it's actually according to the World Health Organization that it says, “Radiation protection means you're exposed to a lower field strength.” And, this is exactly what the Waveguard devices are doing. And, we are able to reduce the field strength by up to 85% in the 5G frequencies depending on how close you are to the radiation.

Ben:  Okay. So, what I don't understand is if I had the Wi-Fi on, which I don't, it's behind me, it's in that closet behind. I'm hardwired in right now via Cat7 metal-shielded ethernet cable, which is kind of how you access Internet most of the time in my house. But, I have Wi-Fi. I could turn it on if I wanted to. And, if I did, it's coming from behind me. I do have one of these Waveguards, like I mentioned, in my office but it's in front of me. So technically, the signal would be hitting my body before it even got to passing through the same area of the room that the Waveguard is in. Isn't that a problem? How would the wave guard actually reduce that field strength before it hits my body?

Hagen:  Well, this is exactly the part that we have found out that our conductive liquids, which are placed in a specific geometric order that we are having effects on further reaches from the device. So, you don't have to be more near to your Waveguard device to protect yourself than to the source.

And so, for instance, to verify this, we were the first institution in the whole world which published a 5G study. So, we have done the first 5G study in the whole world, which was just mindboggling to me when I found out that they're launching this whole new technology without one study out there. And so, we also replicated there the system that we had an exposure system of 5G to human skin cells. And then, we had the Waveguard device, which was 1 or 1.5 meters away from the cell probes. So, the radiation source to the cells was very close and the Waveguard device was further away, 1.5 meter around. And still, the effect when we had the Waveguard device there was that there's not anymore the negative side effects happening, which the 5G was imposing to the cells. And, this is actually was one of the most impactful studies which we did and I think which we have seen in the whole industry. It was really awakening for everybody because the results were just shocking.

When we were looking at how a skin is healing and how it's closing a wound basically a gap, it's doing this by replicating the cells and multiplying. And so, then it's closing a gap. And, when we are exposed to 5G, this healing process was prolonged by 400%. So, instead of a normal kitchen knife cut in your finger, for instance, would take maybe normally three days to heal. When you would be exposed to a 5G signal, you would have a healing time of up to 12 days. This is what the study was indicating.

Ben:  Okay. So, that's interesting that it does that. But, what's the proposed mechanism of action here in terms of it not being surrounding me or enclosing the entire space but rather just sitting in one part of the room? Have you hypothesized as to why you're seeing the results that you see?

Hagen:  Well, basically, we have something, which is by this conductive liquid which we were looking at the torus field, which is kind of a creation of that you are having two electric fields which are counter interacting at the same time in two different directions. And, this is basically what we found is responsible for this, and this is what we are there intending to do but it's nothing which you can validate since the torus field investigation, we have found out it costs around 2.5 millions. So, we have stopped to investigate that. So, we are aiming for this functioning that we are creating this kind of torus field, which is covering your house. And, you can determinate how fast there is the electron spin and how it's working the E field inside of the device. And then, you actually can see how far is the distance it's covering.

But again, we have been having a big change in our marketing in 2019 since we published and did there around 19 studies to validate our products. And so, we moved away from that point of saying, okay, this is how everything works and we are claiming things, but we are just saying, okay, everything which is on our website is validated by studies. And, we have done studies with the most recognizable institutions in the world. And now, just last week, we have just been officially funded by the European Union and by Germany since they have validated now our technology and are starting to sponsor us, which also has something to do because we got the Inventor of the Year prize for the Qi technology, which is inside of the units just 2023.

Ben:  Qi is the technology that you named for this conductive liquid.

Hagen:  Yes. It's a Qi liquid which we are using inside of the units. But, the part about the torus field and about how we're reaching this far-field effect is something which we are using mostly in the scientific area where we are starting to research further and where we're working on, but it's nothing which we can officially claim, I would say so. And, the most important part is that we are seeing it in the real-life scenarios and in the field strength reduction tests that we can place a unit 2, 3, 4, 5 meters away from a radiation communication signal, which is happening and that we are still reducing the effects. And, this is something which we're astonishing the labs and they were saying, “How you do this?” But, it doesn't matter how you do it. In the end, it's important that you can measure it. And, that's why we can claim it.

Ben:  Yeah. I guess I'm just curious on the how. How do you spell torus field?

Hagen:  T-O-R-U-S.

Ben: T-O-R-U-S. Okay. So, I think I understand here in the same way that let's say a human being produces an electromagnetic field, right? We know that the Heartmath Institute has been able to measure it. The human body also produces light. You can measure that also via gas discharge visualization camera. What you're saying is that when I have this device on the floor of my office, it's not just the size or the diameter of the device that's the coverage area, it's actually creating an electrical field that emanates out a certain number of feet from the device. Thus, it technically is blocking a Wi-Fi that might be coming or Wi-Fis might be coming from behind me. Do I understand that correctly?

Hagen:  There is no doubt in that. This is the part. This is not an explanation. There is not about, do we believe in this? This is what we can measure. We can see that if we're placing the device in the center of the house, in the center of a test environment that 5 meters away, the field strengths is reduced by a Wi-Fi which is passing in. You have it in your living room, the device. It stay in your example. And then, you're having maybe 20 feet away, you're having your master bedroom and you're having there a Wi-Fi router and you're having there your phone. Our studies are showing that even if the device is 20 feet away from your Wi-Fi router, which is connected to your phone, for example, that's still there, the field strengths reduction is visible and measurable. 

Ben:  But, the size of the device seems to impact this because I went to your website and you've got one that'll cover a whole office building. One of my clients, he just got one he travels around within his backpack. I've got one in my refrigerator. I've got one on the floor of my office, one underneath the dining room table, and then one upstairs in the master bedroom. These are the home devices, but I noticed the office one's a lot bigger. Is that because you've got more of this conductive liquid inside the larger ones?

Hagen:  Yeah.

Ben:  Okay. That makes sense.

So, walk me through the different devices in the coverage area that they each produce.

Hagen:  So, the most popular device we have is the Qi-Shield device, which is kind of a hybrid device which is not just for stationary use but also for mobile use. And, this is basically the best proven and scientifically proven product in the EMF industry. There is no other product which has done so many studies on just this singular device. And, this is a device which you travel which it's around a water bottle which is around, yeah, 120 ounces or something like that of a water bottle. And so, there you have this mobile device which you can carry with you, which is really handy. You can put it in your backpack. You can put it in your cupholder in your car. And, it is having a field, which is covering 2.5 meters. I think that's what is that, around 9 feet or something like that.

And so, this area is then protected. And, you can put it usually at your nightstand if you're sleeping and you can take it with you in your car into your office if you're going on about your day. And, this is basically a device for single households or something like that where you can just have one device with you and have everything kind of done.

Ben:  It does go through TSA. Sometimes they pull it out, but you can get it through.

Hagen:  Yes. I've been traveling almost everywhere with it.

Ben:  And, I assume the reason you wouldn't have that as a wearable like a necklace is that the amount of conductive liquid that's necessary would make a wearable too large too bulky?

Hagen:  Yeah. And so, this device is around $1,200 and it's our entry-level product. And, this is basically for carry-with-you and use-at-home. So, it's kind of a hybrid device. Then, we have the Qi-Home device, which is covering a house with the EMF protection effects and which is usually covering something around 3,000 square feet of a house. And, depending on your layout if it's really similar sizes on the wides and lengths of the house, then it's reaching its optimal reach and efficiency. And then, you have the Qi-Max device, which is for larger spaces which is covering how bigger houses, mansions, and offices.

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And, I would want that in as central location of my house as possible or my office as possible, right?

Hagen:  Yes.

Ben:  Okay.

Hagen:  But, there where you spend most of your time.

Ben:  Yeah. Now, if it's reducing the field strength as you noted, will that impact my speed, my signal speed?

Hagen:  Usually not significantly. You can notice at the pace depending on where you place it, but it's a way to find out. If you're using it near the connection when you're really putting it near your Wi-Fi router, then you can really start to see the effects on your speed. But anyway, I recommend to go for wired.

Ben:  Okay. Have you ever thought about say clothing. Is there a way to manufacture clothing that has a conductive liquid in that?

Hagen:  I guess the normal silver fabrics could be still something, which is more interesting than clothing filled with liquids from a weight point of view. But indeed, we are bringing out, again, smaller devices here. I can give you that much, probably we see again at the Health Optimisation Summit in London, I believe.

Ben:  Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah.

Hagen:  Yeah. And, we're planning of having there also our newest device. We had a Qi mobile. We had that in our line some years ago which was a really small device, which you could literally carry in your pocket which was smaller than a phone. And, that one just didn't have enough space to have enough liquid for reaching the 5G protection.

Ben:  If I were to take a hammer and smash this thing, would liquid come out?

Hagen:  Yes.

Ben:  Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Okay. That's good to know.

Hagen:  And so, we are now planning of releasing this year the second generation of this Qi mobile, which will be 5G proven and which will contain much more liquid on a smaller space. And so, that will be one of our new releases this year which we are working on. And so, I think that will be very nice and it's a very low-entry product and which is better than filling all of your clothing for with Qi liquid.

Ben:  What about phone case? Could you make a phone case and fill it with the liquid or would it be too heavy?

Hagen:  No, you could do that. But, in general, the idea is to not just protect yourself from your own devices. This was one of the most principal parts which we said in Waveguard. We don't want to always lower your devices. I have a phone here down here on the side of my desk, which is not almost having any kind of radiation. I use that when I really have to do calls and things like that. And, it's really pleasant for electrosensitive person to use it, but it doesn't have all the nice gadgets which we sometimes like to use and fancy in our devices. And, the same would be about clothing. Then, it comes to fashion size and everything, right?

So, the thing is we are not speaking about want to dictate a person what kind of devices they use and that they have to harmonize their own devices, we want to really say we want to create spaces which are safe. And, this is our ambition and especially we have the satellites, we have the Wi-Fis neighbor. We have so many sources of radiation which we cannot turn off. And, this is really something where we say, “Okay, we have seen in Wi-Fi that the effects on the body are still and when you're 100-meter away you're still having the stress reactions as a sensitive person to Wi-Fi.” And, this is just crazy since you can never escape it. And so, we say, “Okay, you place a device here and in this way you actually have the benefits that all things which come inside of your house from the outside or which you produce yourself are being in a better condition and less harmful.”

Ben:  Yeah. You've brought up hardwiring the phone a couple of times. I wish more people knew this. It's less than 10 bucks to get a USB-C to ethernet or a lightning to ethernet converter cable on Amazon. And, in my office, my phone is plugged into ethernet, which is great because I don't have that powerful of a signal, a cell signal in my office anyways, which means the radiation output is going to be even higher from the phone. But, a lot of people don't realize you can literally plug your phone into the ethernet and it works just fine. Your app downloads anything you normally do. It's actually kind of nice if you have the Wi-Fi off in your home and you don't want to rely on a cell signal. It's super convenient. I wish more people would do it.

Hagen:  Yes. And so, therefore, with all our products, we're aiming towards not producing phone cases, not producing clothing, but having a device, now the new one is going to come out this year which is going to be extremely small which you can put in any jacket in any west, which you can still put into your sport leggings as a woman if you're going jogging and don't have a bag with you. You can still going to be able to carry that device with you and have everything covered. And, when you're speaking about clothing, how you going to protect your hat when you want to protect yourself with clothing from EMFs.

Ben:  How big of an issue is Starlink, do you think?

Hagen:  Well, it's just the next drop in the whole barrel, which is already almost full. We are speaking about obviously signals which are pretty much exposed everywhere. We are not having any more blind spots basically in the world where we can go where we can live without a signal. Those are getting harder and harder to find. And, from my point of view, it was never really a solution to say, “I'm moving somewhere because there is lower radiation” because you don't know when they're going to pull up the next mobile phone tower next to that. And, Starlink just tries to reach 100% coverage around the world. We have Starlink 5G Network on Mount Everest top. So, how far more remote off the wilderness you want to go to escape radiation? It's not anymore really a possibility. And, Starlink was just speeding up that process.

Ben:  So, in your home, everything's ethernet, you don't have anything that would be a wireless signal?

Hagen:  We have everything with ethernet, but I'm also now testing a new technology, which is actually wireless but without radiation. And, this is something I'm playing around with for new series of homes so that you can actually have some sorts of adapters to your phones, to your TVs, to your tablets. And then, you can have a device inside of your house, which is plugged into the ethernet. And, by that, you're actually connecting your devices to the internet without any radiation.

So basically, it's like a small USB adapter which you can put into your phone or into your tablet. And, that enables you to connect to the internet without any radiation. It's not using Bluetooth, it's not using Wi-Fi, but it's using a new technology, which is being invented and produced. And, I'm working on bringing that also to mass produce.

Ben:  Oh, does it have a name yet?

Hagen:  It's Li-Fi.

Ben:  Say that again, Li-Fi like L-I-F-I?

Hagen:  Yes.

Ben:  It's actually a good name. But, how far out are you?

Hagen:  Well, it's already there. It's just not really available for consumer market. And so, we're working on that.

Ben:  Oh, I'm sure a lot of people will be interested. If I get more updates on it. I'll keep the shownotes updated, folks. Go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Waveguardpodcast. You can access it there.

Hagen:  And so, basically, you can have a phone case which has a Li-Fi adapter inside, incorporated in it. And, in this way, you can connect to the internet without any radiation, but it's traveling by light.

Ben:  Got it. Why do you think it is a lot of these companies that are making the stickers, the harmonizing elements that you referred to earlier are publishing studies that indicate that they're having some kind of an effect like AiresTech?

Hagen:  Yeah. Well, AiresTech, I have looked into. They sound really great, but you're looking into studies which come only from Russia from a long time ago from people which are not there. And so, in Russia, there is also paid scientific work being done and so on. And, we're not speaking about independent studies which are really looking into the pathway of electromagnetic fields. And, this is something where we have to be specific about. In the first way, you need to have a pathway of how this is working. If we are going to study, we can say, okay, our field strength is reduced and we can show that our device does that. And, it does that by distributing the radio wave on a bigger area. And, that's why we also think there's biological effects, which is not anymore harmful.

Ben:  Yeah, they're more measuring biological effects. They're not measuring field strength, they're measuring red blood cell clumping, for example.

Hagen:  Yes, which is nothing, which is scientifically approved. Red clumping is something which is very commonly referred to, but we're not speaking about something which is used in real scientific publications. And so, when we are looking in this kind of products, there is a huge market behind that, and there is a lot of scam going on about this. I'm not saying that AiresTech is doing that, but you have to look at the quality of studies. And, when you're looking at their studies, it does just tell you that the energy is conductive, that there is a sensor inside, which is conductive and that has maybe having something to do with that. So, it sounds always very nice and there's many companies which are hiding behind the work of quantum and things like that.

Ben:  Yeah.

Hagen:  And usually, I heard that's from a lot of biohackers always when they hear how it's functioning and then the word quantum comes, run away.

Ben:  It's a good cop-out because quantum, why are you following a carnivore diet? Because quantum. Yeah, that is interesting.

Hagen:  Then, when you hear this, you got to be cautious. And, it's usually a synonym for we haven't been able to test it. We don't know another way to explain it. And so, this is something where you got to be careful. But, in this ways, we want easy solutions, we want to just buy a product for 50 bucks, put it on our phone, and think, now we did something in the regards of EMFs.

Ben:  You're actually the first person I've interviewed, by the way, about EMF protection technologies who has not used the word quantum during the entire interview until towards the end where you're pointing out that it's an inaccurate way to describe what these things do. So, yeah, that makes sense.

Hagen:  Usually, there is no pathway, and this is the first part. We can relate to the University of [00:59:18] ____ where this is being studied and investigated, and that our principle which we are following is something which is familiar with the scientific worlds. This is how we got to the Fraunhofer Institute, which is the biggest scientific institute of Europe. We worked with them. We did a double-blind study with them over seven days where we were giving the people a Qi-Shield and there was a control group, there was a placebo group and there was the real group. And, we gave them the products. We gave them placebo devices and we did the whole thing and we measured everything; all the pathways, all the biological parts with HRV, blood testing, everything, sleeping, surveys, and everything. And then, it gets published by the university and not just by one scientist of Russia but there is a whole university and a scientific institute with 60,000 people standing behind that.

And, it takes years to get to that level to even get access to do a study with them. You cannot just go to Fraunhofer, you cannot just go to Harvard or MIT and say, “Do a study on my device. I put here a million bucks on your table.” This is not how it works. You have to have some reason to believe that you find results there. And, this is what is really important and therefore, you also got to explain how is your principle of action. And, if you cannot prove that, if you're saying, “This is a black box. This is just a plastic card which you put on your phone and now the effects are going away.” And then, you ask AiresTech, “How is that doing that?” And, you got to have a trouble explaining what's different about this plastic than about tin foil.

Ben:  I know, I know. I almost called you out on when you said proprietary conductive liquid until we actually got to the explanation. But, it actually does make sense, especially with my father being in the structured water industry. I understand a lot about the potential of liquid to generate a field. So, it's very interesting.

And, by the way, I will be curious to hear what AiresTech has to say too because they run ads on this podcast sometimes. So, hopefully, somebody from their company can jump into the comment section. If anybody from AiresTech is listening in and pipe in with your feedback because I'd love to hear the opposite side.

Hagen:  If you look at the explanation, then you don't really find something there. And, it's really just saying, okay, there has been some conductive field strengths happening and so on. And then, you're looking at professors and single scientists from Russia which have been publishing something there when we are very close to paid research.

I'm going to now call here something out. And, this is the crazy part, Ben. When you're working in this industry, there is so, so much money behind. It's crazy and it's not pretty, it's not nice, but there is so much paid science behind this industry. It is crazy. Some companies like Quantum Leela, I don't get, which are not even having a study and saying they have them.

Ben:  Yeah. You mean Leela Quantum Tech?

Hagen:  Yeah. They don't have one study. Not one. There's not one published study. They have test results of blood testing from some natural [01:02:16] _____. A study starts when you're going to the ethical committee in the United States and saying I'm going to do a study.

Ben:  Now, I got to have Philipp from Leela also hop into the comments and leave his thoughts on that. I'll leave them open by the way. Anybody can pop in and give their reply.

Hagen:  I was doing a study with the National Institute of Reproductive Medicine in the United States with Cleveland Clinic, and we had to first wait for three months to get ethical approval that we can make the study and so on. And, this is how a study is starting. And, in those kind of institutions, you don't get by paid research. And, if you have some paid research which got you in there, then you're not going to find results. And, this is the problem and I faced it so many times. So normally, what happens is if you're, “How is the letter going there?” And, this is really important to understand because studies is not studies, you're not a medical doctor, we have to earn our stripes, we have to earn our rights, right? We can have some kind of knowledge. We can have some sorts of education and so on, but then there are certain barriers which we also have to pass. And so, the same is in the scientific world.

So, the first thing what you can do is some kind of case studies. That's like me giving 10 biohackers, biostraps, letting them fill out surveys and giving them the devices and ask them how they feel and so on. And, this is a case study.

Ben:  Yeah, I understand that. By the way, as you're going through this, give us the basic overview because I don't have much longer for this interview.

Hagen:  So, next part is then you can take these ones to an institute, which is doing this under controlled circumstances. And then, you have to pay them really high money to get some very, well, uncontrolled results still because they are usually giving your certificate of, hey, this is EMFs harmonizing and they are giving you some random approval. And then, you take this one to the next bigger institutes when you're speaking about bigger institutes or universities, and they are going to ask you, “Show me some real studies from an institute, and not just a case study, and then maybe we'll take you.” And then, they will take you. And usually, what you see is that the results are dropping significantly.

We had offers then from three universities which came to ourselves after we published the study on the 5G cells and that we found out, okay, does the university come to us and say we want to replicate this? Because this is mindboggling what is going on here. And, this is where it gets interesting. And, we have seen it ourselves, I have seen that researchers which we worked with, they faked some sort of studies which we paid them to do. And, we didn't want them to fake them. We didn't ask them to do that. They just wanted to give you a result that they say, “Hey, you work or something like this.” And then, you go to the higher grade peer of an institution and then you don't see those effects being replicated. And, this is a real big problem and it's really about finding good research. And there, this is what we have put on our flags that we say everything which is on waveguard.com is being scientifically proven. And, we are going the full way to the most recognized institutes in the world.

Ben:  I respect that. That's fantastic. And again, I saw the studies on the website. I did some research before the interview and it actually is pretty impressive, the amount of research you guys have committed to that's not just funded research or non-controlled research. So, it's super interesting. I'm going to link to your guys' website from the shownotes. People go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Waveguardpodcast.

Like Hagen said, they're called Qi-Shield, these devices. You can see the different sizes and maybe try out the small one first to see how you feel. But, it's a very intriguing field. I'm super grateful that I was able to get on and talk with you about this, Hagen. And, I guess I'm going to be seeing you at the fantastic Health Optimisation Summit in London, yeah?

Hagen:  Yes, we are. We are the main sponsor.

Ben:  Oh, cool. So, people who go to that will get to try them out. So, I'll put a link to that London Summit in June in the shownotes too because I'll be there. It's fantastic. It's like the consumer electronics show for health and biohacking. It's incredible. You get to try out all these things. So, shout to the Health Optimisation Summit.

Alright. I got to go. The shownotes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Waveguardpodcast. And, until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Hagen Thiers from Qi Technologies and Waveguard signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com. Have an amazing week.

Do you want free access to comprehensive shownotes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting-edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life, and a whole lot more? Check out BenGreenfieldLife.com. It's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com. See you over there. 

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During this discussion, you'll discover:

-Who is Hagen Thiers?…04:35

• Waveguard (use code BENGREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
• Hagen Thiers is the inventor of Qi technology — EMF protection

-What is electro-hypersensitivity?…05:56

• Hagen was diagnosed with electro-hypersensitivity when he was a child, around 11 years old
• Symptoms included
  • Sleeping disorder — 1 to 2 hours sleep
  • Pain in the ears
  • Headaches
• He is from a fourth-generation mechanical engineering family
  • His dad tried to solve the problem
• Many people don't even know they are affected and have issues
• Found out that shielding is not always the solution — not very handy
• Using sleeping analysis devices to diagnose with more precision
  • Oura ring
  • Biostrap
• Unplug all devices in the bedroom for 7 days to reduce the amount of EMF
• Check the results and compare sleep and sleep index
• For most people, the change is going to be significant
• Podcast with Dr. Joseph Mercola:
  • Staying Fit With Sunshine & Blood Flow Restriction, The Superiority Of Goose Eggs, The Latest On EMF Protection, Is Vegetable Oil The Root Cause Of Most Modern Diseases? With Dr. Joe Mercola.
• Your cells communicate below 100Hz
  • You are surrounded by fields with a much higher frequency and much more power
  • Stronger frequencies interfere, and almost everybody's reaction to that is in the form of stress
  • Cortisol and adrenaline production go up when you're exposed to radiation whether you're electrosensitive or not
• Most natural frequencies are below 100Hz
  • PEMF devices or red light-stimulating devices have a 100Hz max
  • The higher the frequency, the more pronounced the non-thermal, biologically unhealthy effects
• Everything using a higher frequency usually has a higher disturbance in your body's functioning

-What is the difference between thermal and non-thermal radiation?…14:38

• Thermal limit safety standard: 30-minute phone call is heating the tissue by 2 degrees Celsius
• More concerning — the higher the frequency, the more side effects in the body
• Bluetooth headsets are better than using a phone
  • The safer option
• Reduce the frequency to which you're exposed to
  • Use speakerphone, airplane mode, keep the phone away from yourself
• Bluetooth on wearables like Oura
  • Wearables usually turn on Bluetooth only when synchronizing data
  • They usually don’t have an active connection
• Ben uses a USB-C wired earphone with his mobile phone

-How can being electro-hypersensitive affect you?…20:19

• Lambs (use code BEN15 to save 15%)
• No Choice (use code BENPROTECT to save 5%)
• People who struggle with electro-hypersensitivity may also have things like:
  • Poor toxin clearance from sluggish methylation pathways
  • Cell danger response syndrome from previous mold or mycotoxin exposure
  • A stealth co-infection like Lyme disease or Epstein-Barr
  • High metal load — mercury, lead, aluminum
• All testable problems that would render you to be more electro-hypersensitive
• It's most important that people establish a baseline
• The no. 1 thing is to protect yourself
• Stop the damage and then start recovering from radiation damages
• A range of electro-sensitivity levels of eye tissue
  • Some people are losing their sight or a variety of sensors in their bodies
  • The tissue of your eye can be affected by frequencies higher than 100Hz

-How do you build a radiation-free home?…26:19

• Hagen built a radiation-free house in Finland and Germany, which is a smart house — but EMF-free
• Finding a balance between convenience and low radiation
• Currently lives in Dubai — more challenging
  • The apartment is almost zero-field
  • EMF-free curtains
  • Ethernet wired
  • Faraday cage — an enclosure made of conductive material, such as metal, that blocks external static and non-static electric fields — around the house
  • Important to have grounding if using Faraday cages
• KNX Systems
  • Every power socket has an additional cable
  • You can control electricity flowing to an electric outlet or bulb
  • Controlled verbally via a tablet in the living room
  • A kill switch in each bedroom
• KNX is one of the common standards for building smart homes in Germany
• Waveguard (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 15%)
• Ben has a Faraday cage in his bedroom

-How did Hagen develop Waveguard Technologies?…35:58

• Hagen and his father tested various products
• Harmonizers — stickers and pendants trying to harmonize the negative effects
  • Stuff you find mostly on Amazon under 50 bucks if you're looking for EMF protection
  • Just trying to make EMF less harmful
• Found out that liquids have some potential
• Experimented and worked with the University of Milan
  • Something was happening when radiation came into contact with conductive liquids
• Built prototypes and handed out to members of electro-sensitive clubs
  • Tested for two weeks — symptoms were getting better
  • Some did not want to return the devices
• Hagen went to live in the polar circle area of Finland for a couple of years
• Validated new studies that you can depolarize radio waves if you let them interact or pass through liquids
• Hagen’s technology basically spreads out the exposure from a small area to a big area

-How do Waveguard home protection devices work?…40:42

• The device replicates the scenario of flooding the whole apartment with saltwater
  • You have dispersed radio frequencies hitting your body instead of a concentrated one
• The devices have been tested by technical institutions like Eurofins, TUV, and DNB
  • Waveguard can reduce the field strength of 5G frequencies by up to 85%
• The devices are placed in a specific geometric order
  • The device doesn’t have to be in between you and the source of the radiation or closer to you than the source of the radiation
• The conductive liquid creates a torus-shaped electrical field
  • Having two electric fields counteracting at the same time in two different directions
• Studies validate the product
• Officially funded by the European Union and by Germany
• Qi Technologies awarded for innovation
• The device is still reducing the effects 5 meters away from the Wi-Fi router
  • Field reduction is visible and measurable
• The size of the device is important

-What are the size and coverage area of different devices?…51:27

• Qi-Shield (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 15%)
  • Hybrid device for stationary and mobile use
  • The best and most scientifically proven product in the EMF industry (according to research conducted in these studies)
  • The size of a 120oz water bottle — covers 2.5 meters (9ft)
• Qi-Home (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 15%)
  • Covers a house with EMF protection effects
  • Around 3,000 square feet
• Qi-Max (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 15%)
  • For larger spaces — mansions and office spaces

-Ben’s ad for his Spokane house…53:35

• BioHackedSpokaneHome.com

-What are Hagen's plans for future products?…55:22

• The devices have an impact on Wi-Fi internet speed, so it's recommended to use a wired connection
• Bringing out smaller devices
• Hagen will be attending the Health Optimization Summit in London this coming June 15th to 16th
• Rolling out later this year the second-generation Qi-Mobile,  keep an eye out for it
  • 5G-proven, and will contain much more liquid but in a smaller space
• Want to create safe spaces

-How big of an issue is Starlink and Li-Fi…59:51

• Starlink is just the next drop in the barrel which is already almost full
• Soon there will be no place in the world without radiation exposure
• There is a Starlink 5G network on top of Mount Everest
• Now testing a new technology, which is wireless but without radiation — Li-Fi
  • A device like a small USB adapter plugged into the ethernet but without any radiation

-What are the studies that claim harmonizers work?…1:02:16

• Important: The following section contains claims made by my guest. I plan on discussing and addressing these claims further in future episodes, so stay tuned. For now, I want to make it clear that I'm neither endorsing nor refuting these claims until I engage in those discussions.
• AiresTech
• Studies that came out of Russia a long time ago by people who are not there already
  • Paid scientific work
  • More like measuring biological effects, not measuring field strength
  • Measuring red blood cell clumping
• Fraunhofer, the biggest scientific research Institute in Europe
  • Hagen has worked with them and did a study
• There is so much paid science behind this industry
• Leela Quantum Tech
  • Does not have a single published study
• Podcast with Philipp von Holtzendorff-Fehling:
  • How To Charge Any Object In Your Home (Or Your Own Body) With Healing Frequencies: The Future Of Quantum Energy & EMF Protection With Philipp von Holtzendorff-Fehling Of Leela Quantum Tech.

-And much more…

Upcoming Events:

• Health Optimization Summit — London: June 15–16, 2024

The Health Optimization Summit is the ultimate gathering for anyone passionate about biohacking, wellness, and living their best life. Dubbed a must-do event, it promises a transformative weekend filled with the opportunity to meet and learn from over 35 world-class speakers (including yours truly) in nutrition, longevity, mental health, relationships, and more. Learn best-kept secrets, try out the latest high-tech health gadgets, and discover the cleanest supplements and foods on the market. Don't miss this life-changing weekend — grab your tickets before they're gone here.

• The Longevity Circle Retreat in Croatia — Superyacht Wellness Adventure: Sept 4–10, 2024

Step aboard the ultimate luxury wellness journey: the longevity-focused Superyacht Wellness Adventure, set against the breathtaking backdrop of Croatia from September 4–10, 2024. This exclusive, invite-only event offers an unparalleled experience that blends opulence with the pursuit of wellness, disease prevention, and a long, happy life. With only 10 cabins available, this intimate retreat promises personalized attention and an atmosphere of elite exclusivity. Each day, I will lead 5–6 invigorating workouts, share insights through 1–2 enlightening talks, and engage in organic discussions and Q&A sessions, ensuring a transformative experience. Secure your spot here on this once-in-a-lifetime adventure and be part of a select group dedicated to elevating their health.

• Biohacking Retreat with Ben Greenfield — Costa Rica: Oct 28–31, 2024

Join me this October for an unparalleled biohacking retreat set in the breathtaking landscapes of Costa Rica. This is an exclusive opportunity to dive deep into the world of biohacking, wellness, and personal optimization at Kinkára, a sanctuary of rejuvenation and adventure. Over three nights, you'll get to explore cutting-edge strategies for enhancing your health and performance, from engaging lectures to hands-on meditation and breathwork sessions. We'll bond over group hikes, savor three meticulously prepared meals daily, unwind with live music, and experience the transformative Temezcal ceremony. Plus, you'll enjoy luxury amenities and quality time with me and a community of like-minded individuals. Space is intentionally limited to 50 guests to ensure a personalized and impactful experience. Don't miss this chance to elevate your well-being and connect with the essence of biohacking amidst Costa Rica's natural beauty. Secure your spot here to ensure you don't miss out!

• Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar!

Resources from this episode:

– Hagen Thiers:

• Waveguard (use code BENGREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
  • Qi-Shield (use code BENGREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
  • Qi-Home (use code BENGREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
  • Qi-Max (use code BENGREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
• UltraLux Health (use code GREENFIELD15 to save 15%)
• KNX

– Podcasts:

• Staying Fit With Sunshine & Blood Flow Restriction, The Superiority Of Goose Eggs, The Latest On EMF Protection, Is Vegetable Oil The Root Cause Of Most Modern Diseases? With Dr. Joe Mercola.
• How To Charge Any Object In Your Home (Or Your Own Body) With Healing Frequencies: The Future Of Quantum Energy & EMF Protection With Philipp von Holtzendorff-Fehling Of Leela Quantum Tech.

– Other Resources:

• Oura Ring
• Biostrap
• FlexPulse PEMF
• Joovv
• Lambs (use code BEN15 to save 15%)
• No Choice (use code BENPROTECT to save 5%)
• Shielded Healing

Episode Sponsors:

Mito Red Light: Shop for your red light helmet and mat at mitoredlight.com and use code BGLIFE to save 5%.

Young Goose: To experience the transformative power of Young Goose's cutting-edge products, visit younggoose.com and use code BEN10 at checkout to enjoy a 10% discount on your first order.

Our Place: Upgrade to Our Place today and say goodbye to forever chemicals in your kitchen. Go to fromourplace.com and enter code BEN at checkout to receive 10% off sitewide.

JoyMode: Want to spice things up in the bedroom and boost your sexual performance? And do it naturally without nasty prescription drugs? Go to usejoymode.com/GREENFIELD or enter GREENFIELD at checkout for 20% off your first order.

Organifi Shilajit Gummies: Harness the ancient power of pure Himalayan shilajit anytime you want with these convenient and tasty gummies. Get them now for 20% off at organifi.com/Ben.