DHEA, Steroid Cycling, Liposomes & More: Everything You Need To Know About Fringe Over-The-Counter Health Supplements That Build Muscle & Burn Fat.

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Let’s face it: I’ve been talking about fringe supplements (and needles) a lot lately.

For example, in my articles on BPC-157 and TB-500 peptides, I taught you how to inject under-the-radar, non-FDA approved but highly efficacious healing peptides under the skin or into the muscle to massively speed up injury healing.

Then, in my article on “Safe Alternatives to Steroids” and my “Guide To Gaining Muscle, Losing Fat & Much More With SARMs” I filled you in on some potent oral liquid compounds called SARMs – which are also a bit controversial, not very well-known in the popular supplement industry, and require safe and informed use, but can also be extremely efficacious.

As you may have guessed by this intro, today I’m back with another controversial stack: a blend of ingredients that can act just as effectively as steroids, with very little of the risk. I do indeed realize this kind of stuff isn’t for everyone, but I’ve gotten so many follow-up questions and interest after the peptides and SARMs post, I figured I should fill you in on my latest find.

Let’s do this.

Steroids: Proceed With Caution

Steroids work.

Why else would professional athletes risk their careers and reputations by using them? But with an increase in muscle growth, strength, power, speed, and muscle recovery comes organ damage, liver cancer, hormone changes, man boobs and female facial hair, unpleasant psychological effects, high blood pressure, and a whole host of other pretty terrible things.

People choose to use steroids because there is just nothing else on the legal market that will have such profound effects on athletic performance. The thing is, there are supplements that can rival steroids without the deleterious effects, they just aren’t sold in very bioavailable forms. If your body can’t absorb a substance, it’s no use to you.

However, thanks to advances in nutrient delivery systems, you can now reap the benefits of extensively studied compounds rather than wasting your money on supplements that are largely excreted by your body without any noticeable effects.

The art of supplementation  involves not only what you put in your body, but also how you get it into your body. Health supplements with a liposomal delivery system have the potential to deliver steroid-like gains without whispers in the locker room or shady black-market dealings. Yes, really. It’s time to consider the use of the proper over-the-counter health supplements in your quest to building the ultimate body.

Okay, it’s time for the disclaimer. Much like TB-500 and BPC-157, some of the supplements I’m going to discuss are banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. However, if you’re not a professional, in-competition athlete and you want to play with what might just be the most powerful supplement stack on the planet, then sit back, enjoy the ride, and be safe, kids!

The Science of Liposomal Delivery

Let's start with the best way to get this stuff into the body: something called liposomal delivery.

In the human body, vesicles are small structures found within a cell, which consist of a lipid bilayer surrounding fluid. These vesicles transport materials within the cytoplasm. When created artificially, vesicles are called liposomes. The word “liposome” comes from the two Greek words for fat (lipo) and body (soma), since liposomes are composed of phospholipid – a class of lipids that make up cell membranes.

Liposomes have been studied for their ability to deliver drugs and supplements in a targeted way with many benefits to the user. All of that being said, the big deal about liposomal delivery systems is their ability to improve the quality of the supplements or medication by stabilizing the therapeutic compound and overcoming natural obstacles the body presents in the form of cellular and tissue uptake.

The human body is amazing – it will reject, or at least attempt to reject, anything foreign we consume or inject into our bodies. This includes over the counter medications, vitamins, supplements, and prescribed medications. That means when we take these things in an effort to improve our health, provide vitamins or minerals we aren’t getting from our diet, or boost our strength and muscle mass – our body is rejecting most of it! This is why people don’t see the results they’re looking for with the majority of supplements designed for muscle growth, fat loss, and even vitamin deficiencies.

But, when you take any supplements that have a liposomal delivery system, the distribution of the supplement is improved and the body absorbs more of the vitamins or supplements. Liposomes are the most bioavailable way to deliver nutrients because they can modify drug absorption, reduce drug metabolism, prolong biological half-life or reduce toxicity. It’s a little like a chemistry magic show. So, the liposomes encapsulate the compounds to protect them from early inactivation and dilution during circulation, meaning the quality of the supplement or medication remains intact until it is fully delivered to the area of the body that will use it. It’s like putting a suit of armor around the supplement, so your stomach acids and whatever other warriors live in your body can’t attack and put it out of commission before it has the chance to give you the benefits it’s designed to deliver! Liposomes protect the supplements so your body has a chance to receive the benefits.

Consumption of supplements through a liposomal delivery system provides many scientific advantages, including biocompatibility, ability to carry large drug payloads, capacity for self-assembly, and a wide range of biophysical and physicochemical properties that have the ability to modify for control of biological characteristics.  

A very few number of nutritional supplement companies are relying on the benefits of liposomal delivery systems at this time. It’s well documented that the bioavailability of oral supplements is limited – meaning we don’t really absorb all of the nutrition we consume. This makes most supplements a total waste of time and money. When you are checking out possible supplements for muscle growth and/or weight loss – make sure they contain the liposomal delivery system to ensure you are going to actually absorb the substance in your body. It’s pretty simple: liposome delivery increases the amount of nutrition your body actually absorbs from the supplement.

So, now that you know the science of why this stuff works, it’s time for you to get what you came here for. A muscle-building stack. Here’s an example of a supplement stack you can actually buy over-the-counter for building muscle and burning fat very similarly to steroids, without the side effects:

  • 1-DHEA (also known as 1-Androsterone, 1-Dehydroepiandrosterone, or 1-androsten-3b-ol-17-one)
  • 4-DHEA Blend (also known as 4-androstene-3b-ol, 17-one, 4-androstene-3b-ol,17-one Undecanoate, or 4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one Caprylate)
  • An aromatase inhibitor
  • On cycle support
  • Post cycle therapy

Taking this combination of compounds (along with a healthy diet and physical exercise) can reduce your body’s fat content pretty dramatically, increase lean body mass at the same time, improve some workout injury recovery rates, and do it all while shielding your liver and other organs from the harmful effects of the alternative option to this stack: steroids.  

So let’s break down each of these compounds so you can see what they do, what they’re made of, and why you might consider taking this stack.

What is 1-DHEA?

1-DHEA is a modified compound of the parent steroid hormone Dehydroepiandrosterone, also known as androstenolone or DHEA. DHEA is produced by our bodies naturally, and in the human body, DHEA is the most abundant steroid hormone in circulation. It is produced by the adrenal glands, the brain, and the gonads. In the brain, Dehydroepiandrosterone functions as a metabolic intermediate, responsible for biosynthesizing androgen and estrogen sex steroids.

Although the research isn’t conclusive for all of these, DHEA has been used to improve physical performance, slow or reverse aging, improve cognitive skills of older people and slow the progress of Alzheimer’s, to treat sexual dysfunction, to improve sexuality in men and women, to prevent muscle damage from exercise, to treat metabolic syndrome, clogged arteries, depression, and if you can believe it, to treat a heck of a lot more conditions. I’ll go into the relevant science in a minute.  

But first, back to 1-DHEA. In the human body, 1-DHEA is converted into 1-testosterone (the prohormone steroid that was banned in 2005 by the FDA and DEA) through a two-step conversion via two enzyme pathways. 1-DHEA is preferred over the standard DHEA that can be purchased from Amazon and other store shelves as DHEA/5-DHEA. This is because it doesn’t have the same estrogenic side effects as DHEA/5-DHEA that you don't want to deal with. 1-DHEA can’t be converted into estrogen or activate the estrogen receptor the way DHEA is known to do. Because of this, it stacks well with other supplements to obtain gains in muscle tissue. 1-testosterone, the potent anabolic steroid end-product we’re truly after when taking 1-DHEA, has been shown to significantly improve muscle size, strength, and power.

Okay, back to the science. A 2013 study showed that 1-DHEA supplementation lead to significant increases in lean muscle mass, significant fat loss, and increased strength in the back-squat, bench press, and deadlift. The participants were given 330mg of 1-DHEA, spread across three doses each day, over the course of four weeks.

1-DHEA reduces both the user’s body weight and their appetite. Studies on glucose metabolism with rats shows that DHEA reduces body fat. The rats in the study were fed a high-fat diet with 1-DHEA supplements daily for a period of eight weeks. After eight weeks, the rats experienced weight loss even though they consumed large amounts of fat.

Other studies have shown anti-obesity effects on mice when given daily DHEA supplements, even when the mice studied were genetically predisposed for obesity. It was confirmed by these studies that DHEA prevents the Ay gene from promoting excess fat deposition via some mechanism(s) other than reduced dietary intake.

In addition to the supplement’s ability to help you lose weight by reducing body fat, it’s also been shown to reduce arterial aging and reduce cardiovascular disease risks. Unfortunately for all of us, when you are between the ages of 25 and 75 years old, the aging process results in arterial stiffness – a condition that predicts cardiovascular disease. Also, it is during this period of aging that the concentration of serum dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) decreases by about 80%.  1-DHEA helps you combat the effects of this aging by supplementing your body’s production of DHEA.

DHEA has been shown to increase sexual interest, as well. This is great news considering that typical testosterone steroid use over prolonged periods can decrease drive and sex drive.

In two short term studies, negative effects involving DHEA were minimal. One study looked at the administration of DHEA at a dose of 200 mg per day for 24 weeks and produced only slight androgenic effects. Another study looked at a higher dose of 400 mg per day for 8 weeks, with very few adverse events being reported.

As for you guys out there who care about the death of your testicles, here’s a fun fact: this supplement may also help you prevent apoptosis caused by testicular torsion, which is the death of cells that happens normally as an organism grows and develops. Testicular torsion can occur at any age, but is most common in individuals between the ages of 12 and 16. If it does occur, it almost always requires an emergency surgery to save the testicle. If surgery isn’t completed in time, blood flow may be cut off for too long and it can lead to the need for removing the testicle.

And finally, to get that whole testicle-dying thought off your mind, taking 1-DHEA also seems to help people feel better in general, particularly those who may have hypopituitarism or adrenal failure. Replacing DHEA helps females experience modest improvements in their well-being and minor improvements in mood, as well as for male hypopituitary patients receiving growth hormone replacement.

OK, let’s move on to the next component of this steroid-alternative stack: 4-DHEA.

What Is A 4-DHEA Blend?

A 4-DHEA blend is a precursor to Androstenedione which is converted to pure testosterone in the body, making it a mass anabolic agent and fat loss. Because it requires a two-step conversion process, it is not considered a prohormone. It is known and identified by many names, including:

  • 4-Andro
  • 4-Androsterone
  • 3a-hydroxy-5a-androstan-17-one
  • Androst-4-ene-3,17-dione (Androstenedione)

Androsterone is a steroid hormone created in the liver from the metabolism of testosterone. In 4-DHEA supplements, androsterone converts into testosterone via a two-step process that involves little effect or stress on your liver and other organs. Once converted, it fuels the growth of muscles, provides a general feeling of well-being, and increases sex drive.

Androstenedione is naturally found in the human body, plants, and meat. Taking Androstenedione in supplement form results in testosterone increases, helping athletes train harder and recover from injuries quicker.

Supplements containing DHEA can increase bone density, especially helpful as people age and bone loss naturally occurs.

Interestingly, supplementing with DHEA has shown a 10% increase in IGF-1 in men and women 50-65 years of age, the hormone I discuss extensively in the article “Should You Use This Controversial Hormone Marketed As A Natural “Fountain Of Youth?”

As with many easily-metabolized prohormones, the trouble with taking 4 DHEA supplements is that the body generally metabolizes it so quickly that you don’t see the results. That’s why you need to look for 4 DHEA supplements that include a liposomal delivery system, to ensure your body can make use of the ingredients and you’re not just flushing it down the toilet (literally!)

Now that you know the muscle-building potential of the first two supplements, along with their myriad of other benefits, let’s talk about the elephant in the room – that is, the possible estrogenic effects and how to avoid getting man boobs or estrogen dominance while taking this stuff.

What Is An Aromatase Inhibitor?

The next part of the stack as an aromatase inhibitor, and it’s a crucial addition.

Aromatase inhibitors prevent the production of estrogen and are used to treat postmenopausal women and dudes with estrogen dominance and man boobs, but offer benefits to the serious fitness buff as well. Aromatase inhibitors block the aromatase enzyme, which results in turning the androgen hormone into small amounts of estrogen in the body. It’s important that your body doesn’t over compensate and create too much estrogen when you’re cycling with prohormones and other supplements that may increase your testosterone levels and create a hormonal imbalance.

Aromatase inhibitors will ensure you don’t have too much estrogen so you can get better results. When bodybuilders and athletes use supplements, steroids, peptides, or SARMs to help them reach their fitness goals, you'll probably never hear anyone bragging about their increase in estrogen and decrease in sexual function! But unfortunately, many of these solutions do increase estrogen production and that can cause negative impacts on your body and training performance.

An aromatase inhibitor can increase the results you’ll get with resistance and aerobic exercises for improved lean body mass, decreased body fat, and decreased total body mass index.

To get the most out of your efforts to build lean muscle, you need to manage estrogen and maximize testosterone. The anti-estrogen supplement that reduces the amount of circulating levels of estrogen in the body is a compound that goes by the names Androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione, 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA, 7 Keto DHEA – a metabolite of 7-Keto DHEA.

Aromatase inhibitors are primarily used as part of this stack to counteract the estrogen-increasing effects of the other supplements, but they also provide some additional benefits that can help you with your overall goals, including raising your natural myotropic state to assist with the growth of muscle mass, decreasing fat storage, improving your recovery time, increasing testosterone, and improving your drive.

Some aromatase inhibitors will also include drive support to ensure that your hormones are balanced and your sex-drive is intact. Safed Musli is a medicinal plant used in Ayurvedic medicine as an aphrodisiac, drive enhancer, an energy booster, and offers general immune support. One study showed a marked aphrodisiac effect and increased drive, along with a significant increase in sperm count.

Now that you know how your muscle-building efforts will be supported, it’s time to discuss the ways in which you should support the rest of your body’s systems during a prohormone cycle.

What Is On-Cycle Support?

On-cycle support supplements, which make up most of the rest of this stack, will help optimize your cycle on a steroid alternative stack and get you better results, while protecting and preserving your body’s organs from the negative side effects of strenuous training and nutritional supplementation.

Here’s the deal: many of these supplements can put additional stress on your liver and other organs. Even legal prohormones such as 1-DHEA and the 4-DHEA in this stack, which result in limited liver toxicity and fewer side effects than a steroid cycle, will benefit from an on-cycle support product to counteract issues from increased cholesterol levels, inflammation, increased blood pressure, and prostate health. Anabolics are processed through your liver, and they can increase blood pressure. Using an on-cycle support supplement provides the support your liver needs to repair and detoxify during your cycle, while helping you maintain lower blood pressure.

On-cycle support supplements that contain saw palmetto, a palm tree from Florida, can boost drive by increasing the body’s levels of testosterone. It works by preventing the breakdown of testosterone into the byproduct dihydrotestosterone. The body is then able to maintain more of its testosterone, which can slow or even stop the growth of the prostate gland. It's used most often to treat symptoms of an enlarged prostate, but can sometimes be used to treat low sperm count, low sex drive, inflammation, migraine, bronchitis, and diabetes.

Hawthorn berry and leaf extract, an herb used since the 1st century to treat heart disease, is also a common ingredient of quality on-cycle support supplements. Starting in the early 1800s, doctors in America were using hawthorn to treat respiratory illnesses and circulatory disorders, along with heart problems ranging from high blood pressure, irregular heartbeat, and even heart failure. It can keep your heart strong during your hardest workouts.

Laboratory studies with animals show hawthorn contains antioxidants which can destroy free radicals.  Free radicals are found naturally in our bodies and as we age they increase, and can damage cell membranes, kill our body's cells, and tamper with our DNA. Antioxidants are responsible for destroying free radicals and are thought to reduce the health problems associated with aging. By adding on-cycle support to your stack, you can reduce the damages caused by free radicals in your body while supporting your liver and blood pressure.

On-cycle support systems should also contain CoEnzyme Q10 or its reduced version CoQ10, aka ubiquinol. Ubiquinol is a potent antioxidant that mops up the free-radical by-products of your cell’s energy production in your mitochondria. CoQ10 will also reduce bodily inflammation (this naturally occurs during heavy exercise and CoQ10 offers necessary support) and reduces the risk of heart failure.

So obviously, don’t skip the on-cycle support.

And finally, there’s PCT. Prepare to add this final term to your supplement vernacular.

What Is Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT?)

With all of the results and changes your body will go through while using a supplement stack like the one I'm about to show you, it is a good idea to add as much post-cycle therapy protection as possible. Post-cycle therapy formulas return your internal organs to their pre-cycle, optimal operational levels. A PCT in this stack can be used in combination with each of the other supplements you’ve already read about, and then again afterward when you are working to rebalance your hormones. It's designed to return your blood panel to homeostasis faster and decrease the recovery time you need in between cycles so you can obtain more gains over the long term.

The main ingredient of quality post-cycle therapy supplements, N-Acetyl-Cysteine, is used in a wide variety of medications. It features the ability to prevent liver damage from alcoholism, protects the body against environmental pollutants, reduces toxicity of drugs given to cancer patients, works to reduce hangover symptoms, prevents kidney damage caused by X-rays, and is used to treat HIV patients. It's also used by healthcare providers to prevent multi-organ failure leading to death. If it can be used for all of these purposes with good results, it stands to reason that it can assist heavy body builders with the protection of their organs as well. N-acetyl-cysteine is also a by-product of glutathione and helps regulate glutathione maintenance and metabolism, an important aspect when combating premature aging, infections, injuries, and supporting liver detoxification.

Tribulus Terrestris Saponins is an all-natural compound that is ideal for providing support after your cycle. It is known for improving sexual health, building muscle strength, aiding in blood circulation, increasing stamina and boosting testosterone naturally.

Including 5a-hydroxylaxogenin will ensure that you maintain your gains after your cycle. It is part of a group called Brassinosteroids that have been shown to have an anabolic effect by increasing protein synthesis while inhibiting protein breakdown.

And boom, that’s it! You’ve learned about the muscle-building and fat-loss potential when using 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA, why these forms of DHEA are more effective than the usual DHEA/5-DHEA that are on the market, how to use testosterone-boosting supplements without the estrogenic effects when combined with an aromatase inhibitor, the crucial aspects of including on-cycle and post-cycle support within your stack, and the importance of these supplements using the liposomal delivery system.

And now, let’s move on to a stack I’ve recently discovered.

How to Build A Supplement Stack That Is A Potent Alternative To Steroids

The following is a 100% legal supplement stack that will give you quick and quite noticeable results in the muscle gain and fat loss department and offer you a potent alternative to steroids. It’s time to make shady dealings and steroid horror stories a thing of the past. Instead, you can safely build muscle and burn fat at the same time using a specific and balanced combination of supplements. And of course, this stack features the liposomal delivery system.

The stack is made up of five different supplements made by a company called “Vaxxen Labs”:

Let’s take a look at what each of these contain…

Androxx contains a a 75mg 1-DHEA mix of:

  • 1 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one
  • 1 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one Undecanoate
  • 1 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one Caprylate

Axxis is a 75mg 4-DHEA blend, containing:

  • 4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one
  • 4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one Undecanoate
  • 4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one Caprylate

Exxstane is an aromatase inhibitor, containing:

  • Androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione, 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA, 7 Keto DHEA (75mg)
  • Safed Musli (500mg)

Pillar contains the active ingredients:

  • N-Acetyl-Cysteine (600mg)
  • Red Yeast Rice Powder (400mg)
  • Saw Palmetto (300mg)
  • Hawthorne berry and leaf extract (250mg)
  • Celery seed extract (250mg)
  • Grape seed extract (200mg)
  • CoEnzyme Q10 (100mg)

Descend contains a lengthy list of ingredients to get the rest of the job done for you using the approach you read about earlier in this article, including:

  • N-Acetyl-Cysteine (600mg)
  • Tribulus Terrestris 45% Saponins (400mg)
  • Stinging Nettle Root Powder (300mg)
  • Red Yeast Rice Powder (200mg)
  • Saw Palmetto (200mg)
  • Milk Thistle (200mg)
  • Androsta-3,5-diene-7, 17-dione (75mg)
  • Mucuna Pruriens (50mg)
  • Ubiquinol (50mg)
  • Chrysin (50mg)
  • 5a-hydroxylaxogenin (25mg)

So let’s take a closer look at what each of these Vaxxen Labs compounds were designed to do:


Androxx converts Androstenediol to Androstenedione within the body, which is then converted into 1-testosterone. The liposomal delivery systems ensures that this prohormone supplement is absorbed and because it is non-methylated, it will not damage the liver.

Recommended Dosage: One 75mg 1-DHEA blend tablet, twice per day


Axxis is an anabolic agent that will produce gains in strength and size in only a matter of weeks. The lack of absorption and effectiveness of previous 4-DHEA supplements is finally not a concern with the liposomal delivery of this product.

Recommended Dosage: One 75mg 4-DHEA blend tablet, twice per day


Prevent the bloating and loss of drive that can come with an increase in estrogen while supporting muscle growth and fat loss.

Recommended Dosage: Two capsules, one time per day with food (75mg Androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione, 500mg Safed Musli)


Protect your liver and your prostate while maintaining a healthy blood pressure, cardiovascular system, and kidneys throughout your prohormone cycle. The antioxidants help your body recover from excessive oxidative stress induced through heavy exercise.

Recommended Dosage: Three capsules, one time per day with food


This blend will return your body to its optimal state by offering antioxidants, nervous system support, liver support, and ingredients that naturally support your body’s testosterone levels.

Recommended Dosage: Three capsules, one time per day with food

You can get any and all of the supplements above at Vaxxen Labs with discount code “BENG10” for 10% off. Better yet, order by Mar 31 and get a free t-shirt (while supplies last) so that you can show off those new lean arms.

Just make sure to stack them properly. You can’t grab one random bottle, consume in the absence of the other necessary components, and not risk issues with things like estrogen dominance or liver damage. So be careful.

Should You Consider Using This Stack? Who Shouldn't Use It?

So there you have it.

If you’re serious about your strength training and muscle building, you’ve hit a plateau, or you’re at a point in your life where gaining and maintaining muscle or losing fat is becoming a bit more difficult, then this stack could indeed work for you, especially if you fall into the category of:

  • Competitive natural athletes
  • Off-cycle steroid users who want to maintain strength and not lose their gains
  • Injured athletes looking for faster recovery

That being said, pretty much anyone can supplement with this stack in order to experience measurable muscle growth, increased strength, significant fat loss, and a variety of potential other health benefits with this over-the-counter supplement stack.

But as I mentioned earlier, many of these compounds are banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. However, if you’re not a professional, in-competition athlete and you want to play with what might just be a very powerful supplement stack that gives a potent alternative to steroids, then go for it.

In the meantime, do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for about the supplement stacks and alternatives to steroids in this article? Leave your comments below and I’ll reply!

Ask Ben a Podcast Question

92 thoughts on “DHEA, Steroid Cycling, Liposomes & More: Everything You Need To Know About Fringe Over-The-Counter Health Supplements That Build Muscle & Burn Fat.

  1. Blaze says:

    Hey Ben, thanks for all the info. Pillar and Descend are not listed on the Vaxxen site. Maybe it’s a supply chain issue. Do you have any idea where similar products can be found?

  2. Toph’ says:

    Hello Ben. First I would like to thank you for the quality of this article and your website.
    I’m a 27 yo french guy and i’m seriously trainging for 7/8 years
    Despiste my dedication, my researches and consistent My résults are absolutely not great.
    It’s very difficult to support this situation.
    I think I have some hormonal issues.
    Furthermore i experience erectyle dystfunction probleme since september 2021.
    Do you think your DHEA/Antiaromatase/PCT combo could help me to restore a normal hormonal function? Will be the results (physically and physiologicaly) stabilised over time ?
    Are these products available in a european seller ?
    Thank you
    (Sorry if my english is bad)

    1. Ben Greenfield says:

      Salut Toph! Your English is fine, don’t worry. I’d be more than happy to help via a one-on-one health consult. Just go to bengreenfieldcoaching.com/consults and choose 20, 30 or 60 minutes, whichever you’d prefer 💪

  3. Zachary Ronquillo says:

    Hey Ben, I am a 23 year old male and follow a very strict diet with the help of you and many others like Dr. Gundry, Mark Hyman etc. I’ve previously suffered from gynecomastia from unsafe supplement usage which led to two surgeries to remove the excess fat. My hormones are now under control and I am wondering if you think this stack is still safe if following the correct protocols? Thanks so much

  4. Adam says:

    Would this stack be for someone who deasnt actually go to the gym? I am a 48 year old Male who has low testosterone and would like to get that back up. I work 50 hours a week and I definitely don’t have the energy or the drive to hit the gyms. When I have gone to the gym no matter how much I went i never seen any improvement so it was kind of a waste for me on top of making me more tired than I was before I went! Also I am not to familiar with the cycling? Do you take it for a period than stop for a period? If I wasn’t going to the gym would I still cycle? New to all of this and just looking for some info. Thanks

    1. Todd says:

      Adam try a good brand of coq10. and then workout. when i took coq10 for the first time and then worked out it made all the difference

  5. Mike says:

    This is for Vaxxen Labs, I have purchased and now planning to take your stack above + your Norexx Product or aka your Kingdom Come stack. I have reached out to your support verticals with a few questions with no response so hoping for a response here. I’m really focused on lean strength gains rather than adding much mass so would you recommend all 3 DHEA products in that stack? Separately, there is mixed guidance on your site for how to take Vaxxstane, could you please clarify? Also, do you take the DHEA products with or without food and is there best timing during the day for all these products?

  6. Cliff Thomas says:

    Great article. Steroids are maybe effective, but due to harmful side effects you should try safer alternatives.

  7. Jamescrend says:

    10 besten Dating-Sites 2019: http://cort.as/-PirN?&rqenr=QCXzt

  8. Jarrett says:

    Hi Ben. Just curioua are you taking all these at the same time? Even the post cycle therapy supplement or do you take that after the rest?

  9. Todd says:

    I am interested in trying this stack. But do you guys have the ability to remove the artificial coloring from the pills? I have an allergy to Red 40 that causes a lot of stomach issues. And it makes me really sick when I do have it. If possible to make this stack without the artifice food colorings I would love to pick it up and try it out. But unfortunately without removing it. I wouldnt be able to try myself.

  10. Chris says:

    You’ve recommended Vaxxen Labs and Mahler Aggressive Strength as supplements to increase test. Do you prefer one over the other? Are there potentially negative effects down the road after use of either of these – any impact to your body’s own hormone system becoming reliant on outside substances?


  11. Firebird7478 says:

    Tribulus increases the urge to pee.

    1. Stefanie Hilton says:

      What about women? What should we take?

  12. Justin says:

    Would finasteride or dutasteride during this cycle compromise gains or cause other problems?

    1. Justin says:

      Another question: I take nicotinamide riboside and pterostilbene (via a supplement called Basis) for general health properties and cellular health. Like resveratrol, pterostilbene has been shown to reduce estrogen receptor expression. Can I continue taking this supplemental on-cycle while taking Exxstane as the aromatase inhibitor?

  13. Robert says:

    Hey Ben,

    I have taken steroids in my life, and have actually hurt myself in one point in college (shut myself down pretty badly). Since then I have been on the straight and narrow (I am now 38, 6’1, 212#, long time high level rugby player), but I have played around with “replacement” dosages of testosterone since then. I know what I am doing, and how to come off with HCG, Clomid, an AI, etc, but I don’t ever want to take exogenous Test again. Ever. I want to fully heal my body and I want it to work like I know it can. I don’t have current bloods, but I will get some. I eat very well, am retiring from playing rugby but still lift heavy, and generally I try and live (and know how to for the most part) live a life that would lead itself to having decent test levels. I am married with two boys, FYI.

    My question to you is, would some of these Vaxxen Labs products be beneficial for me, or would they end up shutting my natural test down further? I am pretty committed here. I am thinking about getting a JOOVV, and I want to start doing coffee enemas. What else? What else do you suggest for guys that have taken Test before but don’t want to anymore? Again, I don’t have bloods but I will get some. I don’t necessarily feel terrible, but libido certainly isn’t where it should be and all in all I just feel “Ok”. Other than high quality food here is what I do:

    Trace Minerals
    Vitamin D and C
    Thorne A.M./P.M. Multi
    Master Aminos
    I still have some Clomid and take periodically
    I have an AI but don’t really want to take too much longer
    DHEA 5 mg 2 X day
    Mucuna Puriens (good organic powder form)
    Horny Goat Weed (good organic powder form)
    Micro dose melatonin occasionally.

    That is about it for the most part. I know you would need alot more info, but I am wondering what else you would suggest for someone trying to restore their natural test and libido/have you helped someone like me before?

  14. Lori says:


    Thanks for all the great intel! Just wondering if one can combine more than one peptide into a single injection. Or should they be used sequentially over the course of the recommended time frame?


    1. Steve,

      Thanks for the great feedback. Would really appreciate a review on the site if/when you have time. Greatly appreciated.


      Vaxxen Support

    2. Edgar says:

      Man, I am really tempted to try this, but I tried that combo of LGD4033, GW50516, and the SR9009 and I felt NOTHING!!!! Would this work better or at all?

      1. Dale says:

        Steve – How is your stack going?

      2. Hi Edgar, Yep, possible you have downregulated receptors for those and this would work better. Hope that helps!

        1. Zachary Ronquillo says:

          Hey Ben, I am a 23 year old male and follow a very strict diet with the help of you and many others like Dr. Gundry, Mark Hyman etc. I’ve previously suffered from gynecomastia from unsafe supplement usage which led to two surgeries to remove the excess fat. My hormones are now under control and I am wondering if you think this stack is still safe if following the correct protocols? Thanks so much

        2. Paul Cupp says:

          Hey Ben

          You previously recommended Thorne DHEA. Thorne no longer produces this product. Do have an alternative suggestion for a stand alone DHEA product outside of doing a stack. 53 yr old very athletic and active male not actively competing. Thanks in advance.

          1. Quicksilver Scientific! — BenGreenfieldLife.com/quicksilver

    3. Edgar says:

      Man, I am really tempted to try this, but I tried that combo of LGD4033, GW50516, and the SR9009 and I felt NOTHING!!!! Would this work better or at all?

    4. Ben Greenfield says:

      Yep you can combine them!

    5. Steve says:

      Update: So, I finished this stack a couple months ago and gained about 8 pounds of lean mass over 6-7 weeks. The anabolic effects and size gain are certainly apparent. I was growing fast and didn’t even have my diet dialed in like I should have. I unfortunately have not been as disciplined as I should have with my post-cycle diet in order to keep the gains. I’ve also done a Ostarine/Cardarine stack about a year ago and the anabolic effects of the Vaxxen stack are just as good if not better.
      I have one standing reservation for placing a re-order. The artificial coloring in each bottle. I find myself searching PubMed articles to determine the ill effects of the artificial coloring and it’s hard to get a clear answer, yet I have heard Ben speak of the ill effects of them many times.
      If I could make one request of Vaxxen; it would be to remove that crap and you have my business in a heart beat. The only people that care about a pretty colored pill are the uneducated bros. I don’t care if the pill is an ugly grey or brown…I just want it to be clean and to work.

  15. Tim says:

    Did you happen to notice a few of the “other ingredients” in every single bottle. Artificial coloring!!!!

    Man, you’ve talked about how bad those are many times. What’s up?

    VAXXEN – Why even add that crap in? Who cares the color of the pills?

    Was ready to buy the entire stack, till I saw that, in every single bottle… SAD…

  16. Taylor says:

    Hey Ben,

    I finished my full cycle of this a few weeks ago and have maintained a crazy 17lb gain muscle mass from it! My question however, is if I plan to do another cycle in the winter, do you think I could add in a couple SARMs for even better results?

    Thanks in advance, love your content man!

    1. Absolutely. However, 17 pounds is what most people would be lucky to gain over 3-4 years (seriously). Don't try to accomplish everything in 4-8 weeks, rather, stay consistent over the year and keep stacking them on. I don't want you to run an overkill cycle.

  17. Tim says:

    Is the coupon code still valid? If so, I would like to purchase immediately.

  18. Andy says:

    Vaxxen PhD – How would your Cinerate Product fit into this stack if my goal was to recomp during the 6-8 weeks, or would you recommend using it on a separate cycle after the pct and off cycle?

  19. JP says:

    How does this stack compare to Mike Mahlers Testosterone booster and Estrogen control supplements?

    1. Totally different as these are more pure steroid precursors and DHEA precursors… So these are bit more advanced, but also not approved by the world anti-doping Association… They're more powerful but not approved by many organizations…

      1. Mike K says:

        Perhaps they would be complementary?

  20. Mohammad says:

    Awful conpany and brand. I was saving up money for a while to buy this stack to prepare for an event on Aprik 21st. They cancelled my order for no reason and now I have to wait 1 month to receive the 240$ back because i used a non-US card. Whats worse is that i have been sending them emails for the past couple of days to find out why my order was cancelled to no avail. I wont be able to prepare for the event, i have no money to reorder and my whole plan is ruined. No apology or explanation from their end.

    1. Mohammad,

      Since you decided to publicly defame our company and ultimately Ben’s name as we work closely with him prior to launch, I will lay it all out for everyone to see.

      Your order was voided within hours of being placed. Your order looked suspiciously like fraud. A VOIDED order means we do not take funds off your card or account. Your bank put a “hold” on the funds but we never billed it, so that hold is removed by your bank in 2-3 days tops. This is how credit cards work, worldwide through Visa/MC. They don’t work any different in Jordon.

      Here are the facts:

      1. Your Bill to information

      Billing address

      MC PP






      I’ve never seen a first and last name that only used 4 characters with no vowels.

      I’ve never seen a billing address with no street number.

      and BTW, that address cannot be found on google.

      Your Shipping Address:

      Mohammad A*******


      182-21 150th Avenue

      AMM: 136413

      Springfield Gardens, NY 11413

      This is a postal forwarding system.

      A simple google search on this address can be seen here:
      All talk about FRAUD and SCAMS and etc.

      You have spammed our help and live chat and ultimately you said something that just isnt possibly true.

      Here is your last email to our customer support team

      “From: Mohammad

      Subject: Cancelled order and mediocre customer service

      Message Body:

      I saved money last month to purchase the lean mass stack in order to prepare for en event on the 21st of april. I made the order a couple of days ago and it went through. My bank charged my card and then you decides to cancel my order for no reason without notifying me why. Since my credit card is non-US it will take 1. whole month for me to recieve the 240$ back. So now I am out of money and wont be able to prepare for my event. Even if i decide to purchase that stack from a company other than yours, i cant, because the money will be held by my bank for a month. Ive been sending you emails for the past couple of days asking you for the reason my order got cancelled and you have been bluntly ignoring me. Ihave the right to know why my order got cancelled. If i dont recieve a clarification and a solution soon i expect bad reviews all over the internet from my end. Apologies for my tone but ive had enough from the way youve been handling my issue, the bad spot youve put me in and the constant total disregard from your end.”

      The first line tells me all I need to know about voiding your order. You saved money “last month for the lean mass stack”?? Vaxxen labs has ONLY BEEN OPEN since March 11th!! Ben’s post about us came on March 13 or 14th. How can you possibly have “been saving” for our Stack last month, when Vaxxen was not even open? Only ourselves, our partners and Ben knew about Vaxxen prior to March 11th.

      Thank you Ben, for allowing us to respond to this ridiculous slander of our good name. We appreciate everyone’s support and are here to help.

      -Vaxxen Support

      1. Mo says:

        Well you could’ve simply replied to one of my 100 emails inquiring why my order was cancelled rather than doing this.You never replied not once. My main issue was not the order getting cancelled as much as it was not getting any replies from you.

        Moreover the parcel forwarding service I use is legit, its the number 1 delivery company where I come from and I use it for various orders from many respectable companies without any issues. On another note, putting my address out for the public is unethical.

        My billing address is also a correct one which I always use.The 4 letter name stands for master card pre paid. I use a pre-paid card.

        All this ordeal could have been avoided if you replied to my first email inquiring why my order got cancelled. I sent you an email everyday for 2 weeks and never got a reply.

        Plus how things go in Jordan is that the bank holds my funds even if it was a void transaction just to protect the merchant and it takes up to a month for me to receive them. So I technically was able to use my money a month after my order was cancelled.

        In regards to saving for a month, I saved money to buy a different stack from a different company and decided to buy yours when I read this article.

        Hope all of the above answers your questions. Moreover we are not in a high school here, that’s not the ideal way to deal with an upset customer even if he/she “slanders” you publicly.

        Anyways I apologize for the “slander” and take everything I said back but hope you deal with customer inquiries in the future in a more timely manner.

        I would like to let bygones be bygones and purchase from you. Please let me know if parcel forwarding companies and the address I provided is banned from your end? Is their a way to work around it?

      2. Michael says:

        I’m gonna order from you guys just because this is an awesome use of the internet, and I appreciate few things as much as EXCELLENT customer service.
        Can’t wait.



  21. Chris says:

    Hey guys, has anyone here given these a shot? Ben, have you used them? I’m contemplating trying them out for a cycle but I’d love to hear about someone who has tried them and their experience. Positives/negatives etc…


  22. Lanai Winter says:

    Happy St. Patrick’s Day Ben,

    Thank you mucho, MUCHO for expanding on the liposomal delivery technology for your tribe/followers!

    May I mail you some complimentary samples from this liposomal-delivery, nanotechnology, nutraceutical line that I’m working with? We’re currently in soft launch, but these products are already benefiting people in tremendous ways.

    Anyway, I’d love for you and/or Jessa to try them out in your brilliant, biohacking fashion )'(

    peace & laughter, lanai

    Lanai Winter
    https://lanai.vasayo.com// https://www.facebook.com/lanai.vasayo/
    [email protected]

    (310) 902-9154/cell

  23. Sven says:

    Hi Ben,

    Two questions:

    1. Do you know of a liposomal multivitamin or a company that sells supplements always in the liposomal form?

    2. Which method is safer and more effective? SARMs or this?

    Thanks for your answers!

    1. Hey Sven, yes, Vaxxen (highlighted in the blog post above) is exactly who does the liposomal formulations! In terms of effectiveness, I'll admit that SARMS might be more potent but also more "risky" or "iffy" in terms of long term research…both can be used simultaneously if you really want. Let me know if you have any more questions!

    2. Jesper says:

      You can have a look at bionutritec.com as well.

      They have a good selection of general vitamins, e.g. Vit C, magnesium, omega 3… but also CBD and melatonin.

  24. Greg says:

    How long is the break between cycles? Looking at this set-up is seems that you could actually cycle this for about 12 weeks.

  25. Stefan says:

    OK, this sounds really interesting.

    I do strength and conditioning training in the mornings (5-6 times a week) and 2-3 times I go to martial arts classes (at lunch or in the evenings).

    I’m not sure how to the stack to get the most out of it. I’m 173cm tall and weigh 69kg (lean physique and male).

  26. Mo says:

    Would you recommend this over a SARMS cycle consisting of LGD and GW?

    Which achievers greater results?

    Which has less side effects?

  27. Seth says:

    Hey how would these products compare to a sarms cycle for muscle building and fat loss?

  28. Seth says:

    Hey how would these compare to sarms for muscle building?

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      Hi Brian,

      I do not know any cheaper alternatives that could yield 5-15 pounds of muscle in such a short period of time even for someone whom has reached a plateau. some protein, ZMA’s and amino acids will run you almost as much just to have the most basic supplement regime with minuscule results in comparison. As for maintaining gains: we generally see people maintain around 80-85% of gains made. That is a weighted statement given and assumed they continue to train and diet as before because there is no miracle drug that makes up for hard work.

      1. Brian says:

        Thanks for the response. I’m more of an endurance athlete. Would a stack like this be beneficial or is it better suited for bodybuilders, x-fitters, etc?

  29. Brian says:

    This is really frigging expensive. Is there a cheaper alternative. We’re talking like $200 per month if you buy the whole stack that you mentioned. Also, please comment on the earlier question about how long you need to take this and will your gains disappear if you stop.

  30. Darrell says:

    Ok, WOW. The question I posted was answered personally by Vaxxen Labs. I am so impressed by these folks that I have ordered their Lean Mass Stack (x2). The Internet is such an impersonal medium, but I am floored by the personal service I received. I cannot say Thank You enough to Joseph and Tony.

    P.S. The answer to my question was “Yes run the Lean Mass stack ANDROXX, AXXIS, PILLAR and EXXSTANE. When done then run the PCT of DESCEND”. The stack is 30-days, and it was suggested that you can run 2 stacks, 6-8weeks of the first 4, with the DESCEND PCT. I ordered 2 stacks (Lean Mass). CANNOT WAIT!!!!

  31. Ian says:

    Is this going to be like conventional steroids where you lose your gains as soon as you come off? I’d rather not try anything if I’m pretty much going to have to take it forever.

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:


      This is nothing like conventional steroids that are not only detrimental to your health, but also are not sustainable. I believe we spoke via email earlier but please feel free to reach out as we are available to answer any and all questions you and like to rely on real, empirical data.

  32. Darrell says:

    I too would like to know the time cycle of this stack. Is one complete cycle contained in buying all 5 of these products? I.e you take all but the Descend (PCT) product and then when they are done you do the PCT, and then buy the stack again to rinse and repeat?

  33. Jaime says:

    Can this stack be used for females or is intended only for males?

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:


      I believe we sent you an email earlier. That is a weighted question that depends on your goals (highly). Can it be used by females – absolutely. Would I blindly recommend it without speaking to you about your detailed goals, desires and backround – no. Please reach out to us and im sure we can get something that is not only catered to you, but also pragmatic.

  34. Arlene says:

    Most of the information in this article Is regarding men, I wish you would have touched on the effects of DHEA on women’s hormones and the pros and cons of taking DHEA for women.

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      Hi Arlene, please shoot us an email as I believe we can cater to your goals as a woman. I would love to work with you hands on to help you achieve them.

  35. Chris says:

    Hi Ben,

    Interesting article. Just wondering if you have any stacks for pure fat loss only. Really struggling to lose the kg’s and get down to race weight.

    Many thanks in advance.

    1. Chris says:

      Thanks Ben.

  36. Karen Doane says:

    Hey Bengi…Is this a good stack for women? Post says anyone, but talks a lot about man parts…want stack for lean muscle and fat loss play competing volleyball and weight lift


    1. Vaxxen PhD says:


      As I had said to the woman above that is a very weighed question that I don’t believe can be *responsibly* answered blindly. We’d love to speak with you and i’m sure we can help in determining what will, or won’t make sense for your specific goals. Please contact us directly and we’d be more than happy to assist you.

  37. Noah Zimny says:

    Can you take this stack while on Qualia?

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      Simply put – Yes. I think it would complement it quite nicely, actually.

  38. Joel says:


    In your expert opinion, would a 1 month cycle of this particular stack be long enough to produce noticable results?

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      Joel; after one month you’d begin to see great results. I do recommend running them for a 6-8 week cycle – but even a simple 1 month duration will produce desirable and more importantly, notable results.

  39. Ray D. says:

    Hey Ben,

    Did you complete a cycle on this stack? If so, what kind of % strength or performance gains did you see/realize?

    This seems a little extreme for a recreational CrossFitter like myself, but at the same time I just hit the big 4-0 & have been fairly injury prone (albeit of the mild, nagging type) for 18 of 24 months I’ve been involved in the sport. Almost wondering if I’m better off maximizing abilities using something like the Halo Sport first, then possibly consider something like this? Not to mention my Whoop band tells me my SWS is dreadful so the DeltaSleeper is also on the wish list (we’ve talked about this briefly on twitter / @razorpike).

    In any case, an interesting read and yet another article of yours that has me thinking…



  40. Hey Ben.

    Thank you for what you do and bringing this to or attention. I just ordered the stack. One thing I noticed was FD&C red 40 and yellow 5. Looking for your take on these as far possible side effects of them. I have heard of them not being very good for you. Obviously, this isn’t a huge concern to me since I ordered the stack, just curious on you take. Have a great day and keep doing what you do. #nextlevel

  41. Mo says:

    Would you recommend this over a SARMS cycle consisting of LGD and GW?

  42. Francisco says:

    The dosage of the 1-DHEA is supose to be 330mg, because that was the dosage used in the study, but if it’s only to take 2 pills a day it will only be 150mg.

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      The proposed stack included both 1, and 4 androsterone so between the (2) you’d be at 300mg total. The esterfied versions also allow for sustained release in your body when you are able to utilize them more effectively that just an Enanthate ester, per se. Please email us directly if you would like to speak in any detail or we can be of further assistance!

  43. John Agapos says:

    As I read the caveats, this stuff scares me. I like the positives mentioned – but the risks of supplementing things that aren’t regulated by any agency at all is worrisome.

    So – my question is this: Have you taken it/them? If so, do they work, and how do you definitively know they work? Further, how would I define “work” in this context? Efficacy for me would be where if I were on a 1000 calorie deficit per day, with a BMR of 2300, and an activity level of an extra 1200 to 1500 calories a day – in lieu of just losing 2 pounds a week, either it would only be 2#’s of fat lost, or some noticeable increase in fat lost – like 3 or 3.5 pounds of fat lost per week.

    Even though an increase of 12.5% (half a pound per week) would add up quickly, the truth is, I’d be hard pressed to give a supplement credit for that, and not the diuretic effect of an extra cup of coffee.

    I appreciate all you do – even if I am a scaredy-cat compared to you when it comes to supplements. (and, admittedly very cheap)

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      To be concise: these are actually regulated by the FDA, approved and DSHEA complaint. They are produced in GMP/FDA facilities and the liposomal coating is then done in an actual pharmaceutical company facility that produces OTC products.

  44. Matt Quinto says:

    Hey Ben I have a question about tb-500. I found tb-500 for sale at two different online sites for race horses.
    www.Horseprerace.com and www.racehorsemeds.com both sites sell the tb -500 cheaper than on the research based websites. My guestion is, is this the same product found at the other sites, and do you think it would be a more trustworthy place to purchase from, because its intended to be used in a race horse versus a lab rat.



    1. I have only bought from the sites I list here so can't vouch for those: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/2016/06/how-to-u…

      1. Hey man, first of all I would like to say how radically impressed I am at your involvement with your baby, and thes people’s dreams. I can tell that it is legit AF, genuine as it gets. Not just you but your whole team. You’ve got that special it that the spirits put in someone on a mission to lift up the world, and you know how to spot others with it to pull on your team. I am in the very begining phase of starting a company similiar to this one, but catering to different needs. However, how I am witnessing the way this is run, is exactly how I imagined to be involved in my company for the people’s sake. So I know the true nature of the man behind the scenes. Real recognized real…..like unto like, each kind unto it’s own kind….. one of those “takes one to know one” situations. And when you are one, you can spot em with a flicker at a glance. Mad love to you guys for what y’all are doing here. I have the utmost respect for it. I spend an hour reading comments. I am truly amazed. But there is a thing or two that is holding me up from aquiring the product line. The colored capsules. I know it may seem like a subtle nuance, but I have seen massive amounts of suppressed research that shows it to be more instigatory or cancer than the actual anabolics themselves. Now, this could be because there hasn’t been anywhere near the quantities of long-run studies for the anabolics as much as there have been for artificial colorings, simply due to the massive usage of them in our culture food manufacturing practices. So the data might not be complete. But nevertheless, at thr moment, data shows that artificial flavorings and colorings certainly have very high incidents many other, more tricky and subtle side effects as well as the knkwn cancer risk. Don’t get me wrong, to take them in short term cycles probably wouldn’t be something of concern once or twice. But when you instigate growth factors, especially anabolically, the cancer risk skyrockets for that short duration, as well as the digestive uptake and absorption rates. So during a cycle when you are basically turning the body into a rabid wolf(which is kinda cool), you are at the same time pumping stuff into the blood stream that really tends to linger in the bkdy and be cancer conducive (which is not so cool) at the same time as forcing the body into a state where all cells grow(good and cancerous alike)…….well, giving growing cancer cells cancer food right along side muscles getting its food, can be a sketchy situation. Simply because when the body takes it’s break upon termination of the cycle, the cancerouse cells may very well decide they don’t feel like stopping. And with the lymph and endocrine in downtime, defenses and blockade defenses will be much lower and complacent for a time. So these things combined together can cause something of a possibly powerdul epigenetic effect. Now EVERYONE PLEASE DON’T REACT WITH HYPER CONCERN OR FEAR. I sincerely doubt a properly run cycle or two, with intense exercise and training during so you don’t have excess unutilized hormone lingering around, will lead you into any problems. Burn up the bullshit, and make FULL USE of the surplus of power juices made available to you, and there will probably be only great benefit added. BUT, for me personally, I am looking for something I can use as a lifestyle supplement, ongoing…..with obvious breaks between cycles. I am almost 40. So you can see the legitimacy of my concerns, and the reason for why I am looking for something to become part of a daily lifestyle supplement for me. Because I am just at that point in age where it simoly calls for it……at least if I am going to continue the intensely active and athletic life I have thoroughly enjoyed being totally natural to me. It’s my joy, my medicine. So Ben, I certainly don’t mean to knock you guys because I have done some very serious research and I know my anabolics and adaptogens, as well as nearly the entire list of 148 anabolic research chemicals being studied that still aren’t available for purchase anywhere, even china, not to the publuc anyway. I don’t say that to brag on myself. I say that to brag on you guys. You have truly created some powerful, effective, relatively safe (as can be hoped for anyway) and very well rounded formulations. If I include the entire Kit you offer, it is without question the best lineup I have ever seen in one roof. While I might know of some otber more powerful and effectives for the toxin cleansing and organ support, pct herbals , yadda yadda yadda….I am also very aware as a formulator myself, how insanely difficult it is to make sure to at least cover all the bases that truly matter and still make the product affordable. And frankly, I simply can’t imagine finding something so value packed for this price. It really is, EASILY, the best I have ever seen, bang for buck, dollar for dollar. And without a doubt, the stuff will work. WITHOUT QUESTION YOU WILL GAIN….and if you get uncomfortably disciplined about a full belly, and vicious with the workouts, it would probably easily match the actual tissue gains of traditional steriod users, especially if compared with standard dosing. And the good thing is, it won’t be a bunch of puff, fluid, and salt juice that’ll disappear. I honestly believe with a supplement like this, if the diet decent, 80% retention could be expected…..ar least. So props to ya guys, BEN. But buddy, I promised myself that I wasn’t taking another enhancer, unless I felt comfortable enough about it to incorporate it into a regular part of a long term lifestyle. And like some of the other fellas here, I am just a little to antsy about it. But because of cancer rates in my family, and our naturally carcinogenic oil refinery air here in Louisiana, I feel I have to be strict about it, especially if I wanna do the Testosterone Tango. Know what I mean brother. But hey, if something changes with it in the next production batch, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.


        Laramie Patterson
        Springfield, Louisiana

  45. Anthony Llabres says:

    Not sure which supps to take simultaneously and for how long. Please clarify how you would proceed with said supps for muscle gai and fat loss. A tad confusing as others above have stated.

  46. Pat says:


    Although some of the supplements are banned by the anti-doping agency do you know if they are banned by the NCAA? thank you Pat

  47. Mike Cameron says:

    I have a couple questions about this cycle. How much do I take for how long? I’ve seen cycles in the past that were 5 days on, 2 off, stuff like that. I get the impression the idea is to take the first 4 supplements during the cycle, and the 5th when coming off it. Does 1 bottle of each cover a cycle, or should I stay on longer? How long may be best to stay of before coming off? I’d like to give this cycle a shot, and having an idea how long the cycles should be would help a lot, thanks.

    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      The set forth and proposed cycle would last 30 days. I would say 6-8 weeks is optimal but after 30 days you will have and see great results so ultimately it is a matter of preference and goals.

  48. Ben Madrid says:

    Hi Ben, Just read your article “DHEA, Steroid Cycling, Liposomes & More: Everything You Need To Know About Fringe Over-The-Counter Health Supplements That Build Muscle & Burn Fat.”

    Couple of questions, If I took this stack, do I take ALL of the pills as described. Some pills are taken 1 pill 2x daily, some are 3 pills 1x daily. I went to the Vaxxen website and looked at the stack and it looks like the above regimen is for 1 month.

    How long can I stay on this stack or should I cycle off for a period time and how long is that time?


    1. Vaxxen PhD says:

      Hi Ben,

      We recommend a 6-8 week cycle, however, I do believe you will have noticeable results even within the 30 day period that one “stack” will last you.

      If you were to stay on cycle for 6-8 weeks, that would be followed by a 4 week post cycle leaving you at 10-12 weeks inclusively. Following that we recommend 6-8 weeks OFF before resuming or starting anything new.

      1. Daniel says:

        Thanks for the reply I had the same question. I also purchased the stack and am looking forward to seeing it in action. I was unclear, does one take all the doses as prescribed daily or is it designed to be taken in stages. Thanks again for the follow up.

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