April 29, 2021
I get a ton of questions about hair growth, grey hair, male and female pattern baldness (alopecia), skin beauty treatments, scar and stretch mark fixes, beauty “biohacks,” and beyond.
So I figured it was high time to get an expert on the show to unpack all of this. His name is Dr. Cameron Chesnut.
Dr. Chesnut (who is also available for telemedicine consults here) and I have quite a history.
We've known each other since way back in our Ironman triathlon competition days, grew up in the same general region of Northern Idaho/Eastern Washington, and have recently reconnected as brothers with similar interests in fitness, health, nutrition, spirituality, biohacking, beauty, and beyond. Dr. Chesnut recently opened a brand-spankin' new biohacking facility in Spokane, WA called “ÔPTIM,” which is a fully comprehensive health optimization practice, combining a revolutionary blend of functional medicine and regenerative modalities in a way that offers you unparalleled wellness. (For 25% off ÔPTIM modalities, go here and use code Greenfield.)
Recently at a dinner, Dr. Chesnut was enlightening me on common myths and tips regarding hair growth (based on my recent project of growing out my hair, and potentially, magically sprouting a beard), and also showing me all the other cool toys they have at ÔPTIM, such as hormone optimization, cryotherapy, laser, and other photobiomodulation treatments, platelet-rich plasma (PRP) treatments, hyperbaric oxygen, IV's stem cells, and beyond—so I figured we could geek out on a podcast.
So who is he, exactly?
Dr. Chesnut is recognized worldwide as a key opinion leader and innovator in both minimally invasive and non-surgical cosmetic procedures. He was fellowship-trained in cosmetic surgery, reconstructive plastic surgery, laser surgery, and Mohs micrographic surgery at UCLA, training in the most demanding cosmetic and surgical environments of Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and Los Angeles.
His fellowship at UCLA featured a rigorous, full integration of plastic surgery, facial plastic surgery, oculoplastic surgery, and dermatologic surgery. Through this one-of-a-kind integration, Dr. Chesnut is a well-rounded and cross-pollinated surgeon. He has an unparalleled foundation of knowledge in skin cancer treatment, plastic reconstruction, and cosmetic surgery, as well as laser and aesthetic dermatology.
Dr. Chesnut is an international expert on both the art and science of facial aging, taking an approach that relies not just on surgery but addresses all aspects of aging. He loves to utilize this knowledge and skill of cosmetic surgery to improve the results of his skin cancer patients during their plastic reconstructions.
A leader in the fields of dermatologic and cosmetic surgery, Dr. Chesnut is an internationally acclaimed, award-winning speaker and has been invited by his peers to present throughout the world on numerous cosmetic and reconstructive topics. He is a regular contributor to the surgical literature, continues to author numerous book chapters, and has been recognized for his research and innovation in cosmetic surgery, lasers, and noninvasive treatments.
A native of Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, Dr. Chesnut has returned home to the Inland Northwest. He graduated with Honors from the University of Washington School of Medicine as a member of the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society. He completed his dermatology residency at UCLA where he was selected as the Chief Resident and subsequently was selected for the integrated Procedural Dermatology Fellowship, also at UCLA.
Outside of surgery, Dr. Chesnut enjoys active time with his wife, Aubree, and his children Torin, Tatum, and Callum. He is an avid surfer, passionate skier, loves beach volleyball, tennis, and playing on the river.
During this discussion, you'll discover:
-The fringe microneedling treatment Cameron did on Ben before their recording…4:30
- Dr. Chesnut did a hyper-concentrated treatment matrix of enhanced platelet-rich plasma (PRP)
- Special 25% discount on PRP treatment and other modalities, including a telemedicine consult with Cameron, when you use code Greenfield here
- Quinton from Water and Wellness
- Cameron Instagram: nitty-gritty photo of Ben's face
- What are the growth factors doing?
-What to expect after Cameron's PRP treatment…9:25
- The modality is dependent on the nature of the injury
- 12-14 hours red
- After 72 hours, life as usual
- Building collagen and elastin takes weeks to months
- Undergrad at Washington State University
- M.D. from the University of Washington
- Specialty in cosmetic surgery
- 25% Reconstructive, 75% Cosmetic/Aesthetic
- Ben and Cameron were the guys to chase in Ironman in Central Idaho/Eastern Washington
- Ben put a lot of Cameron's theories into practice
- Residency and fellowship in L.A.
- Medical practice in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
- ÔPTIM—a mashup of biohacking and anti-aging (For 25% off ÔPTIM modalities, go here and use code Greenfield.)
-All the cool gadgets inside Cameron's ÔPTIM Clinic…18:25
- Hyperbaric chamber (the birth of the ÔPTIM Clinic)
- Cameron is a pioneer in his region for utilizing the hyperbaric chamber for post-treatment healing
- Infrared light therapy
- Kettlebells (use code GREENFIELD to save 15%)
- Full body LED Sauna to calm down inflammation post-laser treatments/post needling
- (Hyperbaric, infrared light therapy, cryotherapy at ÔPTIM Clinic 25% off with code Greenfield)
-The pros and cons of dermarolling…21:20
- Deer Placenta Smoothies, Smearing Colostrum On Your Face, How To Use A Clay Mask & Much More, with Andy Hnilo.
- Alitura Clay Mask (use code GREENFIELD to save 20%)
- Alitura Derma Roller (use code GREENFIELD to save 20%)
- Dermarolling is the DIY version of Cameron's microneedling treatment
- GHK-CU Peptide (use code BEN15 to save 15%)
- Dermarolling can cause more harm than good, use with caution
- Microneedling similar to a tattoo, dermarolling rips skin open
- Positive results may be superficial, more swelling than repairing
- Edema is a short-lived tradeoff to look a little bit better, but doing long-term damage
- Coffee or apricot scrubs may not be as effective
- How can you enhance the delivery of home exfoliating treatments without dermarolling
- Similar to how you would use a soft-bristle toothbrush to effectively clean teeth without damage to gums
- The same principle applies to your face
- After treatment
- Infrared increases vasodilation, but not sunlight (because of UVA and UVB)
- Nitric oxide session
-The role of supplements…33:15
- Myth: collagen gets absorbed into our skin after ingestion
- You don't eat hair to grow more hair
- Same principle
- TB-500 injectable peptide
- Anything angiogenic in the scalp can be helpful
- Auxano Grow—2 part beauty application: GHK-CU Peptide and C60 (Buckminster Fullerene)
- GHK-CU Peptide double benefit: elevation of vascular regeneration and increase fibroblasts (cells that create collagen and elastin)
- Vape Pens, Hair Growth Serums, Fixing The Pineal Gland & C60 (The Next Great Longevity Molecule), with Ian Mitchell.
- The cause of the hair loss will determine the correct treatment
- Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and BFR training can contribute to hair growth
- Ketoconazole shampoo indicated for fungal infection, dandruff, and antigenic effects
- Don't use concentrated oil of oregano on your skin
- Supplements from ÔPTIM (BGF listeners get 15% off with any package purchase here by using code Greenfield)
– How iron and copper contribute to grey hair…41:30
- Ray Peat
- Balance iron-to-copper ratios
- Using Methylene Blue (and topical DHEA) to reduce Ferric Iron that causes greying
- Topical DHEA restores hair follicles
- Androgen paradox: hair follicles all over our bodies are exclusively sensitive to testosterone
- People with scarring alopecia have higher levels of testosterone
- Gravity plays a role in hair loss
- Theory—hair loss occurs where the gravitational pull is the greatest
- Treatments for hair loss may result in loss of libido
- Stem cell-rich fat transfer allows growth factor to hair plus extra volume for youthful scalp
- High testosterone = high DHT = baldness
- Possible gravity boots or inversions may help reduce hair loss
- Yoga Trapeze for traction with inversions
– If butter on the scalp can bring back hair…53:00
- The Eye of Revelation by Peter Kelder
- 5 Tibetan Longevity Rites
- Importance of scalp massage and incorporating specific nutrients for regrowth
- Minoxidil and peptides cause vasodilation
- The massage itself may be more beneficial than the actual hair massage product
– How rapamycin affects hair loss…56:40
- Rapamycin as anti-aging protocol
- mTOR and Rapamycin have effects on hair color and hair growth
- Can fasting affect hair growth?
- It's not just massaging, but being conscious of having an overall healthy lifestyle
- One of the strongest indicators of hair loss are stress hormones
-How exosomes enhance the effects of hair growth…1:00:50
- PRP, stem cells, amniotic fluid, exosomes all play a role in hair growth
- PRP is a baseline hair growth stimulant
- Exosomes are signaling molecules that tell your hair to grow
-The way hair transplants work…1:03:50
- Minimally invasive cosmetic hair surgery
- One of the most restorative and natural-looking modalities
- Follicular Unit Extraction (FUE) from the back of the head to transplant in different areas of the scalp
- Body hair can grow as scalp hair and will take on the characteristics of scalp hair in time
-How Cameron treats scars and stretch marks…1:06:15
- Scars and stretch marks are created from an overload of collagen, but don't have any elastin
- Laser treatment to make skin more smooth and supple
- You can always change the appearance of a scar
- Red light therapy may reduce the appearance of scars and stretch marks
- Joovv Light
- Sculptra, a collagen-stimulating injection used to add volume and structure to aging skin
-How much therapy is too much…1:13:00
- Cameron's practice strives for natural appearances
- Deep Nutrition by Cate Shanahan
- Boundless by Ben Greenfield
- The affinity between beauty and symmetry in people and in nature
- If you're maintaining an element of beauty and symmetry in your practice, you're equipping yourself to be more impactful
- Social norms of acceptance and desirability vs. personal feelings of self-confidence
- Cameron's practice is built on rejuvenation, not deformity
-And much more!
Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.
Resources from this episode:
– Dr. Cameron Chesnut:
– Podcasts And Articles::
- Deer Placenta Smoothies, Smearing Colostrum On Your Face, How To Use A Clay Mask & Much More, With Andy Hnilo.
- Vape Pens, Hair Growth Serums, Fixing The Pineal Gland & C60 (The Next Great Longevity Molecule), With Ian Mitchell.
- A New Treatment For Blasting Tissues With Oxygen, Growing New Blood Vessels, Recovering Faster, Killing Bacteria, Building Stem Cells & Much More, With Dr. Jason Sonners.
- 1 Cheap & Easy Underground Training Method For Growth Hormone Release, 5 Biohacks to Increase Strength in 60 Seconds, 7 Exercises for the Eyes to Radically Enhance Stamina & Speed, With Kusha Karvandi.
- How To Build New Blood Vessels, Regenerate Muscle Tissue Fibers, Increase New Cell Growth & More With Something Called “TB-500”.
- Lightning Speed Healing Hack or Overpriced Fad? What You Need To Know About Stem Cells.
- What’s The Deal With Fancy Red Light Devices? Your Go-To Guide On How To Use Red Light To Enhance Testosterone, Skin, Recovery, Cognition, Sleep & Beyond!
- The Eye of Revelation By Peter Kelder
- Deep Nutrition By Cate Shanahan
– Gear And Supplements:
- Kettlebells (use code GREENFIELD to save 15%)
- Alitura Derma Roller (use code GREENFIELD to save 20%)
- Alitura Clay Mask (use code GREENFIELD to save 20%)
- Yoga Trapeze
- Joovv Light
- Auxano Grow
- GHK-CU Peptide (use code BEN15 to save 15%)
- Methylene Blue
- ÔPTIM Clinic supplements (use code Greenfield to save 15%)
– Other Resources:
- Ray Peat
- Oil Of Oregano
- Auxano Grow
- Topical DHEA
- Collagen: The Fibrous Proteins of the Matrix
- Hair follicle: Anagen And Catogen
- Follicular Unit Extraction Hair Transplant
- 5 Tibetan Longevity Rites
- Chemical Agents And Peptides Affect Hair Growth
- Rapamycin For Longevity: Opinion Article
- Stimulation Of Hair Growth By Small Molecules That Activate Autophagy
–Kion Clean Energy Bars: Satisfying, nutrient-dense, real-food energy bars with a delicious chocolate coconut flavor! BGF listeners save 10% off your order with code BEN10.
–Ra Optics: Purchase a pair of Ra Optics Day and Night Lenses to optimize sleep quality, energy, levels, and health in the modern, electrically-lit world. Receive 10% off your order when you order through my link.
–Butcher Box: Delivers healthy 100% grass-fed and finished beef, free-range organic chicken, and heritage breed pork directly to your door on a monthly basis. All their products are humanely raised and NEVER given antibiotics or hormones.
–Paleo Valley Beef Sticks: 100% grass-fed AND grass-finished. Keto friendly and higher levels of Omega 3 Fatty Acids. Receive a 15% discount off your order when you go to paleovalley.com/ben.
54 thoughts on “The Big Beauty Podcast: Anti-Aging, Hair Growth, Gray Hair, Baldness, Beauty Myths & Beauty Truths, Dermarolling vs. Microneedling, Scars & Stretch Marks, Testosterone, DHT & Much More With Dr. Cameron Chesnut.”
How does mesotherapy work for the scalp exactly?
Hi Jack, are you sure that was me? Might want to double check on my IG.
PRP and mesotherapy are both amazing options to promote hair growth!
I’m just reupping my Collagen supply and remembered a comment by Dr Chesnut about it that struck me as a bit disingenuous. If I remember right he was discussing supplements in two contexts: 1 – why would we assume that we are deficient and 2, these things don’t work in any direct way – that is, taking collagen does not move collagen directly into our skin, for example.
But this seems to miss or mislead on both points:
On #1 – it seems fairly clear that most of us do not eat nose to tail on animals, we do not chew on bones and joints any more and do not, by and large, get much soup or stew with bone broth. In other words, the modern muscle meat oriented diet does not include the collagen of the animal to nearly the degree our ancestors had in their diet. We ARE likely deficient in dietary collagen.
On point #2 – no collagen does not move around as a whole in the body but it does break down into the amino acids, right? And those amino acids are then available to support and stimulate the natural process of collagen building just as has always happened. Right? So, plenty of collagen rich food, bone broth or collagen or Amino acid supplements are going to facilitate collagen formation in the body because the building blocks are made available.
Is this wrong?
Hey Ben and Dr Chestnut. Yesterday I listened to part 1 and part 2 and will soon be reaching out for a telemedicine consult and maybe a little trip out west… my question is this… there is now emerging marketing for “topical Finasteride” since using a systemic medication to treat a localized condition results in horrific potential side effects, what are the thoughts on topical fin?
Hi Ben. If you are going for best post, I like it. Thanks for all the information you share.
Hi Ben and Cameron,
Here’s a question that I think would benefit your readers as much as I would love to clarify it.
Every 7 to 10 days, on my hairline I do
2. PLUS GHK-Cu serum
3. PLUS 60 j/cm2 of red light 660nm roughly
Is that overkill; can it lead to some sort of cellular stress? And is one better one doing just two of these instead of all three at once?
Ben , Great podcast, cutting edge information, really enjoyed it, purchase your book, You should get your own TV show with All these great Guest, It would be a homewrecker, grand slam, you’ll be the modern Moses
Thanks Barry! Glad you enjoyed it :)
What does doctor Chesnut think of dry brushing and rolling with a jade ridged roller on your face? Are these worthwhile techniques?
What are the ideal levels for “Balance iron-to-copper ratios” to avoid gray hair?
What levels or tests are recommended to monitor this? Found a study showing calcium is factor as well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369637/
Any and all further guidance/specifics on avoiding gray hair would be appreciated
I am so happy that Ben Greenfield finally has a hair post! This time last year I was going thru a personal hair crisis and so many hairs fell out while so many others went thin. I thought I was going bald forever. I thought I’ll just go to Bens website and being deep diving into hair… and then… bam…NOTHING. I was shocked. Later the C60 podcast came out but C60 is mostly anti-infla and specific to one problem. Anyways, I pulled together mountains of data from mountains of sources including Dave Asprey’s podcasts on Nutrafol research (very good stuff). And finally I see there is this mega post on hair growth from Ben Greenfield, and I was ecstatic! All the stuff is here. All the mountains of it. Everything I used to reverse my hair problems and retain my head of hair is here. I recommend to everyone nervous about their state to deep dive into each single topic here.
Few more things to add on hair health – gut health. Super important. Ben refers to a l. reuteri yogurt recipe which you can find on this website. I started making these at home, and I believe it greatly contributed to the overall appearance and health of my hair. Also, anyone curious on building their own hair-stack, you can look at things not mentioned in the podcast:
– Saw palmetto to reduce 5AT activity in the body
– Brahmi for general hair wellness, apparently it helps with the fiber integrity, I use it too
– Body alkalinity/acidity balance (relates to good/bad bacteria, and overall health)
– Daily anti-stress protocols (mentioned in the podcast, but extremely important)
– Scalp massages not only to increase vascularity, like mentioned, but to release tension to encourage clearing any cellular waste, and deliver oxygen to the scalp which prevents some DHT from forming in the first place. DHT forms in low-oxygenation environments.
Great podcast. Was surprised Ben and dr. Chestnut haven’t answered any of the questions in the comments section.
Thanks! I apologize for the delay. Take a look back through
Super interesting! Ive seen a clinic touting That PRF is more effective than PRP. Any thoughts on this? Im particularly interesting in rejuvenating expression lines in my forehead without botox.
Hi Laura, totally depends on who is making and creating each – they all aren’t equal and the same.
There are some great options for your forehead lines that don’t involve botox. Some specific laser options can be a great choice there and use only light based energy.
Really enjoyed the podcast. Although you guys talked a lot about hair in general my question is regarding facial hair. From what I learned and from what I gathered from the podcast you can stimulate hair growth but I’m wondering if you can stimulate follicle thickening as well. Or if that is a product of your genotype and I’m there for doomed to never grow a manly beard
Girth, thickness, and subsequent density can all be affected for the better with growth factors from PRP and from stem cell rich fat.
Found the podcast interesting. The good doc has to know there are many corded/rechargeable home micro needling “pens” as they are called that have needles that go in and out at varying speeds and heights. The Dr Pen is a well known brand. Many cosmetic and derms recommend them for home use. Just You Tube and will see 100’s of demos etc. I love mine and it does not tear my skin when use new fresh sterilized cartridge and a good slip agent.
What depth do you use, how often do you do it, and what slip agent do you use? I also have a home use pen, curious what others do.
I enjoyed the interview. However, I have an honest question. Dr. Chesnut has good information, but he has a very bad hairline. I saw some of his recent videos, and his hair is extremely thin and unhealthy looking. I would appreciate if Ben or someone else would explain why an expert on the subject does not have good results himself?
I have been thinking about the same question but when it comes to many people in the industry, for example Dave Asprey. I think we can agree he looks a touch older than he is. Anyways, I speculate when people deep-dive into these topics and become real experts, its because of some sort of big life-event. I know this happened for Dave, also Robert Slovak, and even Ben tells stories about how he wrecked his body in triathlons and body building which lead him to dig deeper into body science.
My explanation is that Dr Cameron is also a person who didn’t start when he had perfect hair at 18. Perhaps the research came later in life and now he’s maintaining the hair he has. The science isn’t invalidated, however, by the appearance of Cameron. The same can be said of Ian Mitchel for C60, where a similar question was asked about his appearance.
Hi Jack, are you sure that was me? Might want to double check on my IG. If so, interesting perspective to hear!
Hi Dr. Cameron!
What are your thoughts on mesotherapy?
And if you would recommend it – what formulation would you recommend? And how would you suggest it be done? (i.e. would you only trust specific providers + professionals, or do you think doing it via microneedling at home is enough?)
Lastly – I have seen some formulations online – are the available options some you would trust?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. :)
So the C-60, does it work for gray in eyebrows?
Ray Peat or Georgi Dinkov on the podcast now!
I gotta say as a busy mom I was disappointed. I wasn’t able to find one take away for something I could do personally at home. Except for to stop dermarolling, which I still plan on doing. There was nothing us “little guys” could do for anti-aging except for spend thousands on medical treatments. I really expected some self care advice we could incorporate into our daily lives.
Busy mom beta for skin: GRASS regimen. G = growth factor, R = retinoid, A = antioxidant S = sunscreen S = special ingredients (whatever else you want to try, like copper peptide, etc.). Follow that for skin. You can purchase all these on your own except retinoid (tretinoin is prescriptipn), but you can do retinols OTC as a stepping stone. Also consider a home red light mask for anti-aging. Signed, a 47 year old female doctor mom who’s aging gracefully (I’m not derm but I know a lot of derm and aesthetics people and get lots of info from them). For hair I don’t have much advice.
Thank you, Dawn! What are your thoughts on glycolic acid for exfoliating? I posted below and received no response from Dr. Chesnut.
I had a bad reaction to an acid a few years back and have stayed away from them until recently. Some people swear by glycolic acid – look at Dominic Sasche’s skin in Youtube. But everyone’s skin has different sensitivities. Probably wouldn’t hurt to try it out at a lower concentration. I’ve been playing with azaleic acid recently; it’s well tolerated by many.
Retinoid increases your collagen turnover so it’s kind of like an exfoliator too.
I apologize, the focus of this podcast was on hair, so pretty niche there, but a second is coming that can give more hacks for at home! Thanks for your feedback
Great interview! I was wondering if a finely milled gentle exfoliant is less damaging than apricot shells, coffee, sugar scrubs? Also, is a chemical exfoliant like glycolic acid also damaging?
Regarding near and infrared light use with skin treatments/topicals, how close would one sit to the Joovv unit? I’ve found many contradictory guidelines on this.
The more gentle the better!
Alpha hydroxy acids certainly have their place and evidence to back them up with an anti-aging effect.
Ray Peat has forgotten more than this bloke will ever know. Get him on the podcast. He has helped thousands of people and is not selling anything.
does ben even look at the comments anymore?
Yep, I see/read them all.
Anything on Body hair prevention for men without lowering testosterone levels. Manscaping sucks
laser hair removal
anyone who has Malabsorption issues (from IBS ect) is more prone to that because the the body isn’t processing enough vitamin B
Very true, this is where some specific testing and even IV replacement can benefit.
No mention of vitamin B deficiency causing grey hair .I had premature grey hair and took vitamin B and they turned blond in mid hair!
Great podcast guys! My hair growth has slowed a lot since hitting my mid 40s. Not one gray hair (yet)- I’m guessing genetics and thanking my parents that. I’ve been trying to amp up the animal based proteins along with some organs to help amp up the growth and fullness. I otherwise eat a pretty healthy organic Whole Food diet including duck eggs daily while on the lower carb end. Any tips for women of my age for growing and maintaining a healthy head of hair? Thank you Cameron.
Nutritionally, it sounds like you’ve got it dialed. Manage your stress and be gentle on your hair!
Hi Dr. Chesnut,
What do you think about the AIP diet for alopecia areata? Any recommendations for this specific autoimmune condition?
All the info was fantastic, thank you. I was hoping you’d say a little bit about plasma pen/fibroblast skin tightening. I’m curious about this but not sure if it’s worth it.
It’s coming! Stay tuned
What is the link to the info about Methylene Blue and gray hair on the Ray Peat forum? I am searching for it but having a hard time finding. Thanks!
Fascinating podcast, full of gems, I would love if this was all summarised in a few paragraphs of how to prevent and regrow new hair. I new I should of taken some notes! Great podcast,
Thanks for the info
Thanks for the content Ben/Cameron! Been waiting for this one. I’m currently using a derma-roller, Auxano Grow and Joov light as primary components of my hair regrowth journey. Wondering if there are benefit to taking Saw Palmetto to reduce DHT (prefer to not take Finasteride). Does it actually block enough DHT to help my primary interventions or is it pretty much a waste of time/money?
I am doing regular red light, derma roller, and ghk-cu, with saw palm. The stack is incredible. I don’t know as much science as Ben but I can say the results are clear.
Where do you buy the ghk-cu?
Great interview guys, good info and entertaining.
What about grey hair? Think you guys didn’t discuss that, thanks!!
Great question! PRP can turn those pigments stem cells back on as well