January 28, 2023
I first became aware of this episode's podcast guest, Hamilton Souther, when I heard him interviewed by Aubrey Marcus in a fascinating discussion about “sorcery vs. medicine.”
Hamilton was later introduced to me by a mutual friend, and although we've spoken several times in the past, I've never had the opportunity to interview him on my podcast.
As the guide and founder at Blue Morpho, Hamilton is no ordinary “shaman.” Rather, he is a master Ayahuasca Shaman who moved from the United States to Peru in his early 20s to find out if there was any truth behind mysticism and Shamanism, then ended up becoming one of the few non-native men to ever be initiated into the traditional ways of Ayahuasca Shamanism.
Hamilton now operates the healing center Blue Morpho, based in Iquitos, Peru, where he hosts guests from all over the world and in cyberspace. Blue Morpho offers comprehensive online retreats, courses, products, and booking services to support individuals in their personal transformation journey.
Through Shamanic Dieta, an ancient technology that looks to medicinal plants from the rainforest, Blue Morpho restores balance, harmony, and life-force energy to your body. Online ceremonies with experienced shamans are held in cooperation with body practices classes, aiming to build physical strength while recharging both mind and spirit for fulfilling life goals and intentions.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-Who is Hamilton Souther?…06:39
- Ayahuasca shaman
- Blue Morpho Retreats in Peru
- Helping people online
- Becoming a master Ayahuasca shaman
- Interested in mysticism and medicinal plants
- Studied anthropology and heard stories about extraordinary reality
- Spontaneous awakening and shift in consciousness
- Extraordinary experiences
- Prophetic dreams or deep inner knowing or callings
- Spontaneous awakening led him to Peru
- Started after giving his life to spirit
- Inner voice calling to Peru came through meditation
- Came from a western medical family and complete science background
-Coming to Peru and experiencing the Ayahuasca ceremony…13:44
- Backpacking and looking for mystics and spiritual guides
- First Ayahuasca ceremony in Amazon forests
- Clear vision to stay, live, and learn there
- Shaman is an imported term
- People in the forest with an interesting belief around medicine; spirit is interconnected and intra-linked with medicine
- Doctors of the forest are called medico vegetalistas or plant doctors
- Studying tribal knowledge about the plant medicine
- Hundreds of plants in use for different illnesses
- Diagnostic processes and treatments
- Ayahuasca is used to treat the spirit
- Also treating gastrointestinal issues
- How is Ayahuasca administered?
- As a tea, it's a combination of a variety of plants that when combined form ayahuasca
- The vine of ayahuasca that's Banisteriopsis caapi
- Psychotria viridis, which is called chacruna
- A variety of other admixtures can be added depending on the lineage and their practice
- It's basically the combination of these two plants together that is the base of ayahuasca
- Pharmacologically, ayahuasca contains harmaline which allows DMT to be absorbed and cause visions
- Administered in a ceremony by a medico vegetalista or shaman
- Shamans guide visionary and healing experiences
- As a tea, it's a combination of a variety of plants that when combined form ayahuasca
- Microdosing is something that has been created in the west and isn't really shared in the traditional cultures
- Tribal uses go beyond medical
-Is the practice of Ayahuasca among a wider population a new phenomenon?…23:14
- In traditional cultures only shamans use Ayahuasca regularly
- Altered states of consciousness provide medical information
- After diagnosis, they prescribe plant medicine
- Hamilton’s personal experience on diagnosing with Ayahuasca
- Hypothesis on how diagnosing occurs
-Interacting with the spiritual world and other entities…30:20
- It’s a shared space with other kinds of beings
- Many serious unanswered questions about them
- Hamilton’s experience with spirits
-Shamanic battles…36:48
- Shamanic warriorship in the Amazon
- Life and death fights in altered states with no rules, no referees
- Conflicts between different groups and people
- Hamilton’s experience with shamanic battles
- Helped people to heal from these battles
- You're in an altered reality you can’t get out of; you hear it, smell it, see it, sense it
- There's ultimately no way out of it other than to fight your way out through to the other side
- The shortest battles we were ever in could have lasted five to ten minutes
- The longest ones, 10 to 15 hours at a time, went on for many, many years
- Many visionary fields open up at the same time
- You see entities and shamans you fight against
- You see what is going on around you
- With your eyes open or closed, you see exactly the same thing
- Hamilton’s first attack – very intense experience
- Vision of various predatory animals
- Vision of a person that has attacked
- Lasted 4 hours
- Lost and ended up very sick
- Seeking people who healed him of that and then they ultimately started to train him
-Is there a risk for people who are coming to experience plant medicine?…45:17
- There's always a risk associated with it anytime people use these substances or these plants
- Need to find credible and responsible people to host these experiences
- The impact of the increasing popularity of these things
- Positive – preserving the culture
- Negative – unregulated industry with a tremendous number of untrained shamans or charlatans
- 10-20 years of learning process is needed to get to the highest level
- The true purpose is healing which requires a skilled leader to take a person from illness to healing
-Music and chants with plant medicine…49:50
- The ikaros or chants associated with the practices are both passed down generation after generation and have been proven to work and have a very specific purpose
- Knowing how and when to use different kinds of ikaros and ceremonies takes years and is a true art form in its own right
- Digital recording lacks energy and real presence
-The malpractice of shamanism and how to be safe…51:59
- Some people report a feeling of being possessed after their experience with a shaman
- It is possible and represents malpractice of shamanism
- Similar to a western doctor doing something unethical that would make them lose their license
- How to stay spiritually safe in that space
- The first protection is your heart and love; your heart is a center of love and tremendous power
- Ask plants for their protection
- The most important is connection to source – your true faith and belief
-Hamilton’s spiritual practice on daily basis…57:24
- Very busy daily life
- Uses short moments to affirm the connection
- Express love and gratitude
- Ben’s story about his experience with a healer
- Maintaining a relationship with God
- Intense devotional time 12-15 times a month
- Hamilton's practice is based in absolute unconditional love for Divinity
- Podcast with Issam Nemeh:
- Miracles Every Day by Maura Poston Zagrans
-Where is the future of plant medicine?…1:02:05
- Field Trip Health
- Science and plant medicine coming together
- Scientific studies of healing capacities
- Hybridization
- Synthetic vs natural plant medicine
- The concern is what you lose with synthetics
- Synthetics are less spiritual
-Closing words…1:07:40
- The Mystical Secrets of Ayahuasca Part 2 by Hamilton Souther
- The Mystical Secrets of Medicine vs Sorcery: The Untold Story of Ayahuasca Part 1 by Hamilton Souther
-And much more…
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Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
– Hamilton Souther:
- Blue Morpho
- The Mystical Secrets of Ayahuasca Part 2 by Hamilton Souther
- The Mystical Secrets of Medicine vs Sorcery: The Untold Story of Ayahuasca Part 1 by Hamilton Souther
– Other Resources:
- Can You Get Healed By Someone Praying For You & “Laying On Of Hands”? The Story Of One Physician’s Inspiring Faith And The Healing Power Of Prayer, With Dr. Issam Nemeh.
- Miracles Every Day by Maura Poston Zagrans
- Field Trip Health
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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for Hamilton Souther or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!
Hello,Ben-
I’ve just finished listening to the podcast with Hamilton after first listening to an earlier podcast you did with Robert Orem (sp?).
In the podcast, with Robert,you seemed to agree with him that true spirituality and authentic relationship with God,our Father, was only possible through faith in Jesus Christ,His Son-
What’s up with what seems to be a change of direction?
Thank you for your answer…
Hey Ben – I’ve been checking out your podcast over the years and taking on little by little to keep improving my life and as a result, I’ve been able to empower others to improve theirs.
I recently (~8 weeks ago) discovered Breathwork at a non-denominational center that I go to that teaches it. The leader of the class and I have gotten pretty well connected, but I am not certain that what I experienced during the meditations is pure.
I’ve listened to your intentions to spread the dangers of plant medicine, and while I have had psychedelic experiences, but I haven’t for some time. I only use THC very seldomly, but in these meditations, I’ve achieved levels of consciousness way wilder than any trip I’ve been on off of a small amount (10mg) of THC. I’ve been experimenting with the ideas of duality, non-duality, gnostics, hermetics, etc. but my background is in the Church. This is the first time that everything started to make sense for me. Spirituality is real and something is definitely there. I cannot be anything short of belief at this point, but I want certainty that I am on the right path.
I am questioning if what I’ve experienced, while seemingly beautiful, profound, and of light, is actually of God and through Christ. The level of connection to the all is what I got, but, are we supposed to experience that level of power? Should I feel the level of tingling sensations run through my body, only to surrender the power moments later? Curious about your thoughts.
I’m recollecting what I experienced through a different lens now.
Earlier today, I had a literal “come to Jesus” meeting with a stranger across the country for a work thing. The intention of the conversation was industry related, but we ended up talking about this, and I felt compelled to check myself, and check in with Christ.
It felt nothing short of a sign from God to do a better job at discerning, and to stay vigilant in my spiritual journey. I feel that I found a place of belonging, understanding and a community, but now I’m wondering if I’ve been deceived. That stranger’s name is Casey, which translates to vigilant. Pretty funny how God places people in the right spots at the right time.
I don’t think you’re able to really give me any advice other than to stay in prayer, stay sober while I process and recalibrate, but, I’m writing this to tell you that I am extremely grateful for you talking about the dangers of opening yourself up before you’re ready.
I think I jumped prematurely, and I am going to make sense of it all and help others where God leads me to do so.
When I find progress on my path, I’ll update you. Maybe I did feel something pure, but I have to do everything in my power to make sure that I’m good with Christ. The idea that I don’t know with full conviction isn’t one that I’m going coast in.
What I experienced over the few weeks is what I needed to be certain that God is real. Now my mission is to undoubtedly know Christ. I appreciate you, and would love to chat sometime. On record, off record, whatever. I want to find truth, and I feel like you’ve helped me inch a little closer.
Thank you,
Matt
Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future – Father Seraphim Rose