Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Boundless Life podcast.

Ian Mitchell [00:00:04]: We did a thing at a big sports facility in Fort Worth. We called it the Inhale Challenge. And we had, you know, versa climbers and treadmills and things like that. And we were getting people's heart rates up to about 150, 160bpm, and then having them drink a can, and their heart rate, within about a minute and a minute and a half, would drop back down into normal range. It's anecdotal, but there have been people that have asthma that are using this in lieu of albuterol because it decreases, you know, your heart rate while increasing your oxygenation in lieu of making you jittery and increasing your heart rate and increasing your oxygenation.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:43]: Welcome to the Boundless Life with me, your host, Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:04]: Ian Mitchell has been a very popular podcast guest of mine. He's been on the show twice. You're now a three-peater. Ian, congratulations. We've talked about, gosh, like, frog poison, ozone suppositories, breaking performance records, reversing Alzheimer's, quantum biology. Ian's come out to my house and visited and even showed me how to change the flavor of chicory coffee at a local Creole restaurant and beyond. He is a wealth of knowledge, just in the trenches daily. He's got patents on a variety of different products that you've probably tried out there in the nutrition and biohacking industry.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:46]: He developed the first viable gamma ray shielding system for use on spacecraft and space habitats, as well as a carbon negative concrete that inhibits greenhouse gas proliferation. He's got a bunch of other products, like I mentioned in the CPG space, but he recently figured out something really cool that he could do with water. I'm holding what he did right now because I got my hands on a few cans of this stuff. It says super oxygenated water. And it's kind of funny because Ian will develop these things that if 99% of people on the planet developed and sent to me, I would be like, bullshit. But he actually knows his way around science better than just about anybody I know. So, Ian, are you ready to geek out and put on our tinfoil hats and talk all things super oxygenated water?

Ian Mitchell [00:02:43]: Yeah, let's do it, man. Cool.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:45]: By the way, if you're listening in the show, Notes are going to [email protected]/Inhalepodcast. Inhale podcast. I suppose you've probably gotten a little bit of flack, Ian, about the other meaning of the term inhale.

Ian Mitchell [00:02:59]: Well, I tried to get Bill Clinton as a representative for the water, but that hasn't gone down yet.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:04]: So, yeah, we'll get his face on the camera eventually.

Ian Mitchell [00:03:08]: If we can get him just sitting there going, I do now, that would be quite epic.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:13]: Well, it's pretty rare that you can get my sons hooked on something and they're drinking. I've been going through my stash super fast because they slam a can of this before almost all of our father son morning workouts. And you told me that it would do certain things. We can get into it on this podcast. But I do hyperbaric. I do exercise with oxygen therapy. I use all these oxygen modalities. And when I drink a can of this, it feels very similar as far as the overall oxygenation.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:45]: So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what's going on here and how this thing came to be.

Ian Mitchell [00:03:50]: Yeah, so it was, I mean, we're friends. So you've seen me walk around with my safety third T shirt that my staff made me. And they gave that to me because I blew the lab up. And I blew the lab up while I was actually developing the process on how to make this. So kind of the basics of this is water typically has 5 to 8 parts per million oxygen. This is much, much, much, much, much higher. It's actually like you can test it and you'll get well over 180 or 200 parts per million, depending on which can you open. We, you know, we say that it's, you know, upwards of, I think, seven times, which is really only like, you know, somewhere around the 50, 60 range.

Ian Mitchell [00:04:30]: And it's, it's actually, there's a preponderance of oxygen, so it's, it's much more dense than that. But, you know, my thought was after you open it, there's kind of a pressure partial pressure issue. So it starts to dissipate a little bit just because of equalization of the pressures and the concentration gradients of everything. So the oxygen that's in the water starts to delocalize a bit usually because when you're opening a can, you're shaking it. When you shake the stuff, the molecules, the way I actually did this, it's nanoscopic bubbles, right? So you, you crack the bubbles down so that they're nanoscopic, and then you effectively kind of lock them in position through a whole bunch of bizarro chemistry that, you know, I had to create this super weird rig to actually get to work, you know, dropping temperature gradients and increasing pressure gradients and all kinds of weird stuff. But the idea was to basically make hyperbaric in a can. And it's great for performance athletics and stuff like that. But really, to me, the big benefit is for cancer therapeutics.

Ian Mitchell [00:05:32]: Right. Because cancer is an anaerobic condition. And so if you can. That's why hyperbaric therapy is so phenomenal for people with cancer, because in a state where there's just a ton of oxygen, it inhibits proliferative rates of cancer. And so if you do HBOT therapy, it helps with that.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:51]: HBOT for people who don't know, that's hyperbaric oxygen, where you climb into the chamber with the pressurized oxygen and you breathe oxygen from a mask.

Ian Mitchell [00:06:00]: Yeah. And so that forcibly pushes oxygen up. If you have a. It's called a soft shell chamber, you can usually go up to, like, 1.3, 1.4. If you've got a hard shell, like I have here at the lab, you can go to 3 atmospheres of pressure, and so that's 3 times the standard atmospheric pressure. But you do it with pure oxygen, and you push it into your system. Or you can do it the way a researcher named Shai Efrati in Israel did, which I'm sure you know that study, because it was a longevity study. And they showed kind of regression of a lot of the biological markers of aging by doing hyperbaric therapy.

Ian Mitchell [00:06:32]: Two atmospheres of pressure, 90 minutes a day, five days a week, and it squeezes oxygen into your tissues. And they did it in an air environment, so they increase the pressure of the air, and then you breathe directly through a cannula, and you breathe pure oxygen with intermittent breaks of five minutes every 20 minutes. And so this. I know that everybody doesn't have access to that kind of stuff because the chambers are stupid expensive.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:56]: And I have to admit, I do hyperbaric, but I don't get anywhere close to 90 minutes, five days a week.

Ian Mitchell [00:07:02]: Yeah, well, the reality is nobody does. I mean, it's not something that fits in my lifestyle. So a lot of the things. The part I like about the hacking bit of things isn't so much necessarily finding shortcuts to things, but it's finding things that are more conducive to the lifestyle that I actually lead, so I can integrate the things that I think are going to be beneficial. And in this case, I know that a lot of cancer patients don't have access to hyperbaric therapy. But if I can mimic the effects of hyperbaric therapeutics by virtue of just putting something in a can that they can ingest, that's kind of the sweet spot for me. And this, you know, like I was saying, water typically has five to eight parts per million. This is around, you know, 180ish.

Ian Mitchell [00:07:43]: Plus, when you drink it, your pulse ox goes up. And I know you've tested it because a lot of people have said this. And so, you know, we're wrapping up a clinical trial right now where basically we took a ton of people with pulse oximeters. And it's a pretty. It's a simple trial.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:00]: Right, you mean just like, it's for people who don't know. The pulse oximeter, that's like the fingertip monitor that you can put on that'll measure oxygen saturation. Although a lot of even, like, I'm wearing a ring right now, A lot of these rings and wearables now will give you proxy for that also.

Ian Mitchell [00:08:18]: Yeah, and so there are a couple of ways you can do it. You can actually pull blood and check that, which is, you know, a really accurate way to do it. But the easiest way to do it is just to put a pulse oximeter, Clamp it down on your finger, and then just you sit there for a minute, let your heart rate normalize, drink a can, and like I said, one of two things happens. Either your heart rate decreases or your pulse ox goes up, or sometimes both, and it's really a matter of whatever decreases cardiac loading. So your body is this incredibly brilliant system of feedback loops. And so the feedback loops tell you and kind of inform what your body does with things. So if it takes more load off to increase your oxygen everywhere, you do that. If it takes more load off to drop your heart rate, you do that.

Ian Mitchell [00:09:02]: Because one of the weird things, when I first developed this, I had a can in the car, and I just finished, like, a really hardcore workout. And I was panting, just panting, panting, trying to catch my breath. And I wasn't thinking about it like this at all. And I cracked open the can and just downed it. Just because I wanted water, not because I was thinking about the oxygen component. And I was breathing. And at about, like, the 50, 55 second mark, I downed the can. I was going.

Ian Mitchell [00:09:32]: And I literally stopped mid respiration. I thought, well, that's peculiar. And it was kind of my, you.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:39]: Know, kind of my third long.

Ian Mitchell [00:09:41]: Yeah, it was super bizarre because I literally, like, in my entire life never felt anything like that where like mid cycle of respiration, it stopped and then, and I felt fine. I was like, whoa, that's, that's kind of a bizarre reaction. And so then I kind of started working through, you know, the, the how behind that occurrence. And it was simply that your body is such a quick feedback loop that the moment you don't need to be pumping as hard to oxygenate your tissues, or in the case of post workout, re oxygenate your tissues, it stops and it literally just, you know, like a line drawn in the sand stopped at that point and it was pretty epic. And I thought, damn, you know, this would be great for athletics too. And, and so then we started testing it with like our mutual friend Todd Shipman, who's an endurance runner and he does those, you know, like 200 mile runs and runs to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, then back up, then back down, then back up again. Things that would kill me.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:35]: Yeah, one of those guys.

Ian Mitchell [00:10:37]: Yeah, one of those guys. I don't think I have the same degree of mental metal that that he does.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:44]: Oh, I do. I just don't have enough time now.

Ian Mitchell [00:10:49]: I'll talk to you guys because I, I think I would totally push out on that. I don't, I don't think I could actually do that. A 200 mile run would probably crush me. But I started testing it with Todd some and then I tested it with some free diving people and then a bunch of things like a freediver who tried it. One of the guys got a 40% increase in his breath hold, which those guys are. The reason I was kind of curious to see what would happen with that kind of sport was that they're so regulated in terms of their control of oxygen and their body is really tuned up so that it controls the flow and really kind of doles it out very, very slowly over time. And so for one of those guys who's really kind of at the peak of oxygen utilization in terms of how well they do it, to get that big of a shift after one can was kind of, kind of crazy. And then Todd, you know, when he would go out and do things, his heart rate, and then he started giving it to his wife and her heart rate similarly would drop into his own even after exertion where it was like 20 points lower than it would normally be.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:54]: Yeah. And by the way, just a random rabbit hole thought because ketones are a preferred fuel for diaphragm, heart, the brain in many cases, and because ketones are also becoming more popular amongst folks who have to hold their breath. Doc Dominic D'Agostino did a lot of his early studies on hypoperfusion in divers. And I used ketones when I did a free diving course and did pre and post analysis. And I was able to increase breath hold time by 15 to 20 seconds by taking ketones prior to static breath holds versus not. I would imagine something like this would probably kind of go like turkey and cranberries with some type of ketogenic approach or the use of exogenous ketones.

Ian Mitchell [00:12:42]: Yeah, well, one of the things that, I mean, I can speak directly to that, because the thing when people reach out and they ask about cancer, what I typically tell them is the first thing to do is put yourself in ketosis. Right. Because the primary driver for that is. Is glucose. And so cancers basically crave sugar. And then if you block the sugars, there's kind of a secondary function where they can pull other things like glutamate and convert it through gluconeogenesis, which is just the fancy science way of saying glucose sugar neo new genesis creation of. So it's creating new sugars from proteins, but you can block all that stuff. You know, I tell people, take curcumin, EGCG and then throw in a little berberine.

Ian Mitchell [00:13:24]: So, but. But you're exactly right. If you. If you put yourself in ketosis and you use the additional oxygen, that's why it's actually great. And I always tell cancer patients this if they can get to it for hyperbaric therapies, Put yourself in ketosis, then do the hyperbaric therapy. And cancer is interesting because typically it only exists within a narrow, narrow band energetically. So it actually marginalizes your cells and decreases their output to a threshold where it can propagate. Because if your cell has energetics above that level, it's actually okay and healthy.

Ian Mitchell [00:13:59]: And if it goes below that level, it's likely going to die. And, you know, that's not the goal of the cancer. It's trying to propagate. So it keeps you marginalized, but within this very narrow bandwidth. And if you go into ketosis, the energetics in your cell go up, and if you hit it with oxygen, they go up again. Then if you hit it with red light, you oscillate the cytochrome and they go up again. So it's. Metabolically, it's like a great, as you said, turkey and cranberries.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:22]: Yeah. And probably a fourth modality would be pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. Earthing or grounding, not only to reduce red blood cell viscosity, but Also to increase permeability of the cell membrane.

Ian Mitchell [00:14:33]: Well, I don't know if I sent you the picture from our clinical, but in terms of decreasing the viscosity in the blood and kind of changing the flow, like most, most people that are listening to this show because of, you know, kind of your demographic, most people are going to know that our blood has a tendency to cluster in the presence of, you know, toxins or even just EMF. Feels like a router or your cell phone or something like that. It causes kind of a chain to form out of the red blood cells, and they look like these long rolls of red blood cells, kind of like coin rolls that are stuck together. And in terms of like, evolutionary biology, the way we evolved, our bodies are designed to have these perfect little, you know, roughly 8 micron happy red blood cells rocking around, and they can get to all of your peripheral vasculature and they can get, you know, little spaces and oxygenate everything and deliver nutrients. But if you cluster them, you're hoaxed, right? And PEMF, that used to be my, like, go to method prior to this PEMF was incredible for that. But if you do this, it's the same effect, but it's a little more persistent. And I'm honestly, I'm not exactly sure why it's more persistent.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:46]: You mean persistent compared to pulse electromagnetic field therapy at reducing red blood cell clumping in particular?

Ian Mitchell [00:15:52]: Yeah, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:53]: Interesting.

Ian Mitchell [00:15:54]: So, yeah, and it's persistent for a really long time. What I typically tell people, like cancer patients and things like that, now that I have access to this, I just tell them, take a can in the morning and a can at night. I'm kind of like your kids, though. The other thing is I suck them down because I try and put myself every day, no matter what's going down, every single day, I try and crush myself cognitively. And the reason for that is, and I know you know this, but basically every day your brain pumps out new neurons, and every day your body kills said neurons through a process called synaptic cleaving and, or synaptic pruning. And the reason for that is your, your brain accounts for like 2% of your body mass, but it sucks down 20 to 25% of all of your oxygen. So if, like me, you're basically taking an SAT every single day, with the amount of new stuff I'm working on and techniques I'm trying to develop and theories and all, all the kind of cognitive load that I put myself under every day, in addition to the, the standard Battery of stuff. I'll do like dual in back and puzzles and all the kind of stuff, like mental gymnastics that I literally do every single day.

Ian Mitchell [00:17:06]: Because when those neurons come out of your hippocampal region, if you put them under a load that they've not been exposed to before, they actually cement in place and your body doesn't synaptically prune them. So effectively you tool up and you take a four cylinder car and you make it a six cylinder car and then you make it an eight cylinder car. So that if you're trying to redline the thing, you know, and you want say in the analogy, like 400 horsepower, tricky for a four cylinder car, really easy for a 12 cylinder car. So I have tried to consistently for the past few years overclock my brain every day and put it under load in new and different ways. You know, learning juggling instruments, languages, different, different things like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:46]: Yeah, yeah. For, for me right now it's guitar and ping pong.

Ian Mitchell [00:17:49]: Yeah. Actually ping pong is phenomenal because it does the hand eye coordination. And that's the same reason that juggling was really good is because it was something that I wasn't used to. And it triggers bilateral communication so you have to fire through the corpus callosum and you're really triggering a lot of stress on your brain. And the two hemispheres of your brain are communicating and that puts an extra load neuronally and so your body goes, oh, we actually need these neurons and it puts them in place and cements them there and, and once they're there, they're there. But like I said, they're crazy resource consumptive in terms of oxygen load. So for me this was something kind of akin to like phenylpiracetam where I could take it. And that's a, you know, for everybody who doesn't know, that's a really intense nootropic.

Ian Mitchell [00:18:38]: I could take it and kind of the lights come back on and your brain is juiced up. Because I don't think the average person isn't going to be doing the kind of like physical exertion that you're doing or the crazy kind of mental gymnastics that I'm doing every day. But if they're not and they take this stuff, then they're going to have just a preponderance of energy and they'll be able to kind of rock through their day with a lot more ease.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:59]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just called yourself a nerd and me a meathead. But you mentioned that you drink perhaps even two plus servings of this on the daily. I probably average a can a day right now. And it makes me think about ozone, right? I drink ozone water, a little ozone water generator. And so I'm getting triatomic oxygen that I'm consuming. Like I mentioned, I also use hyperbaric. And I'll even do the exercise with oxygen therapy sometimes where you exercise with an oxygen mask on your face. But kind of like red light therapy, there is a law of diminishing returns.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:39]: You know, with red light therapy, with free radical production, with ozone therapy, or even hyperbaric to a certain extent, too much reactive oxygen species formation. I mean, that's one of the mechanisms of action via which something like drinking ozone water works. It sparks the body's own endogenous antioxidant production via the contribution of reactive oxygen species. So would there be any risk in drinking too much hyperoxygenated water because of that?

Ian Mitchell [00:20:08]: No. And the, the reason for that is. So basically you've got two things going on there. And I had, I know you've used the Biocharged product. I developed the ozonated oil capsules. And so I did, you know, quite a long time, couple years of real hardcore stuff in ozone. And what's interesting there is, that's oxidation, right? And all of these things are oxidation to a certain extent because oxygen is going to strip some electrons. But ozone specifically, it's really, really heavy duty because that trioxygen, the extra oxygen, wants to strip electrons to balance out the charge.

Ian Mitchell [00:20:47]: Now, ozone is about the third most reactive molecular species. So the moment you ingest that stuff, it's going into action and it's actually spent in about, I don't know, a couple milliseconds after you ingest it. And it's exactly the same effect as a process called autohemotherapy, where you pull your blood, then you inject direct ozone into it. The blood typically changes from kind of a dark red, just super bright cherry red. And then you reintroduce the blood. Viv. And that does the same thing. You know, you'd think of that as ozonation, but really, in truth, what's happening is because those molecules are spent so rapidly, it's triggering an upregulation of oxygen.

Ian Mitchell [00:21:29]: In the case of the water that you're talking about, you're looking at a really hardcore oxidation effectively rusting, right? For anybody who's kind of grappling with it, when you rapidly oxidize something, you burn it, you rust it, you strip electrons away and Depending on the violence and the rapidity of that reaction, you get either fire or rust or mild degradation oxidatively in your body. That's really hardcore oxidation. Now this, because it's just diatomic oxygen. So it's O2, it's actually oxygenation. If the product or the process of oxidation happened every time you were exposed to diatomic oxygen like you are in the air, basically your lungs would burst into flames in a second.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:10]: Yeah, that's true. You'd be breathing yourself into oxidation every time that you're, you're respiring.

Ian Mitchell [00:22:15]: Yeah, Literally it's the same thing that happens to people if they accidentally, and I have a friend who did this, accidentally ingested ozone and it just about killed him and. Yeah, and very rapidly because it just rips away the alveoli and strips your lungs and can quite literally kill you very quickly. Ozone's great if you do it, you know, rectally, but you don't want to do anything that's going to take it directly to your lungs. I mean, you can even do it in your ears, you can ingest it. But if you take it directly into your lungs, you're kind of hosed. And I mean, to your point, that hormetic stress that you get from exposure to ozone triggers one certain reaction very rapidly. But the cascading effect of that, we always would say in the literature, if you read it talks about ozone triggering an ozonide cascade. That's a persistent effect where these ozonides stimulate your body for about a day.

Ian Mitchell [00:23:08]: I actually thought that was the case and based a lot of work on that because that's what the literature says. And I think all of us in the space who work on ozone think that. And in my case I thought that after I started working on the oxygen project, I realized, and honestly, I don't know why it didn't dawn on me sooner. I realized that because that molecular species is so reactive and it's spent in under a second. What's really happening is your body has an oxygen sensing network, not an ozonide sensing network. So the same effects that I saw from the hematology on autohemotherapy, where you look at the blood from somebody that's doing autohemotherapy is identical to what you actually see if you look at people doing hyperbaric oxygen therapy or drinking the hyper oxygenated water. Because if you, if you take anything that's, you know, above 80 parts per million, there's. There's actually a biological threshold and there's A lot of papers, like if you go to the inhale site, I think the papers are probably linked there because I wrote everything up because there was a biological threshold at 80 parts per million.

Ian Mitchell [00:24:13]: Below that there are beneficial effects, but not really that much. If you cross over that threshold, everything kicks off. And it's kind of like saying, I'm going to boil water. Well, I heated the water up to 100 degrees three times. Doesn't matter, doesn't do anything right. You have to hit that 212 threshold. And if I, in the lab, if I can get the water to 100C, it boils. If I do 50C, two times, no effect.

Ian Mitchell [00:24:38]: So there's a critical biological threshold that you have to exceed. And when you do that magic sauce.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:44]: And you, and you said the critical biological threshold for, for oxygen, in this case in water is 80 ppm.

Ian Mitchell [00:24:50]: Yeah, 80 ppm, yeah. That's where you start seeing the biggest effects. And you can see, like, I've seen really interesting effects and there are a lot of papers on this and I, I think probably the site has all their literature on this that I pulled and collected. You know, things in terms of like alcohol consumption. When people drink alcohol, it puts their liver under a burden. And if they drink oxygenated water and it's above that 80 ppm, threshold, it kind of force stimulates the liver and it processes the alcohol out pretty close to instantly.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:21]: But are you saying I could just make a cocktail with Inhale and just do a little mezcal, some lemon and this, and it's kind of like a detox retox type of thing?

Ian Mitchell [00:25:29]: Yeah, it'd be more like a buzzkill might be the name for that. So you're not really, it's not really like if you had that and then you had a shot of Inhale afterwards. Yeah, that'd be called buzzkill because you're not really going to get much of the effect of the alcohol because it's going to get metabolized super fast.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:46]: Back to the PPM thing, you went through pretty quickly that you figured out a way how to get oxygen to water. But oxygen is a gas I would imagine to be somewhat unstable. I know that, I think you had mentioned to me, you don't just open a can of this and leave it sitting out for the next 24 hours and finish it later because eventually the oxygen will dissolve out. But how do you get it stable to stay in the can and not have it all just rush out when you open the can?

Ian Mitchell [00:26:09]: Well, a little bit of it rushes Out. That's why I say that. Like, on the can it says seven times the oxygen. And that's because there's. You can open it and leave it there for quite a while, a couple of hours and. And still hit those rates. But it's when it starts, like, when you first crack the can, it's about three times as much. And the other thing, like, and I know, you know, this is when you open one of these cans, there's a bit of a sploosh where water comes jetting out at you.

Ian Mitchell [00:26:33]: And the reason for that is those cans are unlike a normal can, where there's an airspace at the top. There is no airspace at the top. The can is overfilled. And when the lid goes down, it's actually sealed right then with water being pushed out. And that's because any gap that's to us, almost, you know, negligible for an oxygen molecule is like the size of a superhighway. Right. So you don't want any space in there because as long as it's in situ and just in statically in the water, it can't really easily move out with the can closed when you open it. Yeah.

Ian Mitchell [00:27:05]: It's going to try and balance out the partial pressure of the atmosphere to the internal part of the can. But because of the size of those bubbles, there's actually a term, it's called zeta potential. When you overcome the zeta potential, it doesn't just rush out, it actually has a tendency to stay there. One of the easy ways to see this effect is if you put this in a glass, or in a glass bottle right out of the gate right after you open it, it looks milky and then it turns clear from the bottom up. As the nanoscopic bubbles start to delocalize and move up and you end up with like crystal clear water. But it takes like, you know, a few seconds.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:44]: It's kind of funny you say that, by the way, because I have an Ophora water filtration system at my house now and it oxygenates the water. I obviously can't take it when I travel. I don't think it's quite the level that's in Inhale. But when I draw water out of the faucet the first few times, I freaked out because I'm like, the water's all cloudy and then within 30 seconds, it was already starting to get clear. I thought the water was contaminated. It's just the oxygen concentration in the water from this water filter.

Ian Mitchell [00:28:12]: Yeah, Ophora's got a great system. I actually really like Their product, it's good, it's at about. And I tested everything that I could find everywhere around the world in terms of things that were over saturating the oxygen concentration. And Ophora was a, one of the top. It was at 41, 42 parts per million, which was really good. And that was, you know, pretty much better than just about everything. Everything else I tested domestically, there were some other stuff in other countries that were pretty good, but that was just domestically.

Ian Mitchell [00:28:43]: That was probably the, the cream of the crop. Again, the unfortunate part there is if you don't hit the right threshold, it's, it's good for you, but it's not going to do the exact same things. So it's kind of like persistently like if you have that system in your house. Rock on. It's a great system. Drink that stuff all day long.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:02]: Yeah. And not to mention that it's also a 14 stage filtration process. There's a lot more going on than just the oxygen with that well and restructuring and crystals.

Ian Mitchell [00:29:10]: Yeah, yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:11]: You get the oxygen, stay in the water and then you open it. Ideally, would you just want to chug the whole thing right away or can I leave it out for a little while?

Ian Mitchell [00:29:20]: I keep it chilled because water at a lower temperature will hold more dissolved gases. So I keep it chilled and then I crack a can and down the can as quickly as I can. Like if for the, you know, for the trials and things like that. Like if you're doing something athletic, you're going to want to down the can in like 30 seconds to a minute so that you get the biggest boost and you can feel it. I mean very literally if you down it. I'm sure you felt it.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:46]: Oh yeah. I mean, I'm hopping on a flight after this. I'll slam a can like right before I go through security at the airport. Just because it's so good for the vasoconstriction and drop in oxygenation that occurs during flying.

Ian Mitchell [00:29:58]: Yeah. That's hilarious that you say that, man. Because that's exactly what I do is I bring it. And right before I board the plane, I hammer back a can and then I get on the plane because they don't have, you know, enough oxygen on the plane.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:10]: You mean right before you go through security? Unless you figured out how to let them.

Ian Mitchell [00:30:13]: Well, actually, yeah, because it's, you know, because it has the super oxygenated water on there, you can actually get it through security.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:19]: I've heard that, that you can bring the water if you say it's like some kind of a medical thing. But do they still try and pat you down and you gotta like.

Ian Mitchell [00:30:26]: Well, yeah, but they'll just test it. You know, you might spend a can because they'll crack one and test it and then they just swab the outside of it and you're good to go.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:34]: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Super interesting. Okay, so in terms of the temperature, I'm assuming if you want to keep it cold, that if I wouldn't want to use this for coffee, tea, anything like that, I'm assuming heating is going to really cause the oxygen to dissolve out.

Ian Mitchell [00:30:48]: Yeah, heating, like, you know, heating is basically molecules accelerating. So, you know, that's why a microwave works. You oscillate the hydrogen bond angle and it shuffles really quickly. And the friction that's released is, you know, that's what you're actually getting the heating from. So when you heat something up, specifically water, you make it move more rapidly, and that movement delocalizes the nanoscopic bubble. So if you think of, you know, water has got this kind of bond angle with an oxygen at the top and the two hydrogens, this is sort of like pickup sticks where all these little diatomic oxygen stack around it and wedge themselves in. And if you jostle that, they're more likely to come out. Like, this is definitely not something you want to shake.

Ian Mitchell [00:31:28]: But also because if you shake a can, it. It will spew water the moment you open it. And if you freeze a can, it will explode. And I don't mean like minor popping of the can. It will rip the top of the metal off of the can. So, yeah, it's actually, it's pretty cool. And also, if you freeze the water, it's beautiful. So unlike normal water, if you freeze it, the surface is smooth.

Ian Mitchell [00:31:52]: This, if you freeze it, it has little circular clusters all over it because of the way the oxygen groups and bonds. Yeah, it's actually. It looks beautiful. Like, it's really, really beautiful.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:03]: That's interesting. But if I froze it, I don't know anybody would do this, but let's say I froze it and like made a slushie out of it, Would it still. Will the oxygen still be present?

Ian Mitchell [00:32:12]: Yeah, you definitely still have the oxygen. If you get it to the point of being slushy oxygenated snow cones in.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:18]: My house this summer.

Ian Mitchell [00:32:21]: That's I'm rocking out to Idaho soon. Yeah, that'll work.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:24]: Okay, so regarding the can, obviously we've said can a few times. A lot of people in the health sector, their ears kind of perk up and they wonder about the lining, about metals, things like that. Do you take that into consideration with the can?

Ian Mitchell [00:32:37]: Yeah, I do, actually. I mean, I, I think, you know, I'm a, I'm as concerned as the next guy about microplastics. And, you know, these are BPA free. And that, that's right now in the current state of things, it's kind of a. I looked at the nexus of what the benefit was versus the cost benefit analysis of everything and say, okay, like I can get this out to a ton of people at a super low price, or I can put everything in glass, which we probably will do at some point in a couple of years, put, put a version in glass. It's just going to be an entirely different price point because the shipping of everything is much more expensive and the breakage levels go up when you're transporting things in glass. So this was, I'm not, I'm not trying to be so adherent to all of the tenants that I would love to be able to do and sacrifice the ability to get it out to people. So this is one of those things like, yeah, it might cause a 2% detriment, but it's going to cause a 200% benefit.

Ian Mitchell [00:33:38]: Okay, fair enough. That's a trade off I'm willing to do.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:41]: Okay, got it. All right. So in terms of the effects you brought up, a lot of what it sounded like was kind of anecdotal for you, for free divers for Todd, who's doing the running, et cetera. Have you done any type of clinicals on it or looked into any research beyond that?

Ian Mitchell [00:34:01]: Yeah, well, there's, there's actually been a lot of research to date. I don't think anybody other than us has actually done a, you know, an IRB clinical trial on it. We're just wrapping that up now. But it's one of those things. We're doing it really specifically just to prove the point, kind of incontrovertibly say, yeah, it does this because I've already done this with so many, you know, probably at this point, a couple hundred people with pulse oximetry and looked at it, and it's always the same and the effects are even more pronounced. We did a thing at a big sports facility in Fort Worth and we called it the Inhale challenge. And we had, you know, versa climbers and treadmills and things like that. And we were getting people's heart rates up to about 150, 160bpm, and then having them drink a can and their heart rate within about a minute and a minute and a half would drop back down in a normal range.

Ian Mitchell [00:34:52]: And that's actually. That was just leveraging what I had done accidentally on my own. It was just kind of like. How do you explain to people what the effect really is? Well, if they're just standing there, they're going to feel a little bit of a head rush, but they're not going to notice the full benefit of it. But if they're putting themselves under a real hardcore load, they will see the benefit very quickly.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:13]: Okay, interesting. I know we got to be careful with claims. You're the guy who brought up cancer, so you already opened up at least one can of worms, pun intended. But what about COPD? Is there any logic to the idea that this might be something useful for that?

Ian Mitchell [00:35:30]: Yeah, I do. There are people who have asthma that. And again, I will say no claims, and it's anecdotal, but there have been people that have asthma that are using this in lieu of albuterol because it decreases your heart rate while increasing your oxygenation. In lieu of making you jittery and increasing your heart rate and increasing your oxygenation, which is kind of a best of both worlds. If you can get your parasympathetics to kick in and you're kind of in a more relaxed chill space and you can oxygenate yourself, you're better. I mean, what people don't really realize is one of the things I leverage to do this is every single person listening to the show has consumed all of their oxygen in a liquid format. Right. Every person here, while in utero, consumed all of their oxygen as liquid.

Ian Mitchell [00:36:19]: So the entire network is still there to be able to do that. You can use its aquaporins. You can use aquaporins to shuttle oxygen into your system through the cell membrane, and everything's still there. It's just dormant. Once we transition over to our lungs, we just stop using all of our systems. You know, biology is really beautiful because, and I know you've heard me say this, but if you're, if you're working on biochem or biology and you look at a human body and you're not dumbfounded by the, like, complexity of it and the brilliance of it, you're not paying attention because we have all these primary, secondary tertiary functions where you don't just have to get energy from eating food and breathing. You can pull it from red light, you can literally pull it from high frequency static electric fields. There's so many backup systems that we have.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:14]: Did you see even that recent study that showed that vitamin absorption was occurring via inhalation through the air. No, it came out like three weeks ago. They were seeing that when they infused air with certain vitamins that were absorbable via the lungs that they were increasing nutrient status in people. I reported on it in pod, I think podcast 384. I talked about it. I don't know if that one came out yet, but yeah, it's fascinating.

Ian Mitchell [00:37:38]: Okay, I'll look that study up. That's very cool. See but that's the thing. I mean that's the brilliance of the body, the way we are developed and built. There's so many loops that you can go through where if you can't do this, you can do this. And if this fails, you have access to this. That's why when you look at people kind of and end stage failure at the very late part of their life, things happen systemically. You can basically go, okay, this is going to fail.

Ian Mitchell [00:38:07]: When the load of this transfers to the load of this, then this will fail. Then that happens. And it's kind of like the Rube Goldberg effect biologically where the marble rolls down, hits the pinwheel and throws something else out. But that can also work in kind of retrograde to our benefit. Right. We've got all these other systems that are there for that purpose, but we don't typically use them. That's why I love red light therapy, you know, is kind of like you said in with regard to ozone. You know, it triggers a response that's beneficial to a point and then there's too much.

Ian Mitchell [00:38:37]: I mean there's definitely. You can do things in excess, specifically with like hyper oxygenation, red light therapy, things like that. They, they fall under a category of a thing called a biphasic.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:47]: It's a new term I learned the other week called over hacking.

Ian Mitchell [00:38:51]: Oh my God, man, I know so many people who do that.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:54]: Well, it's actually very interesting. I'm not, I'm okay. I interviewed the folks from mescreen who are doing new blood based tests on mitochondrial efficiency, mitochondrial health and free radical leakage. And they actually are finding in a lot of the biohackers that they test. Just did this interview a few days ago, I didn't release it yet, that they're actually kind of creating excess ROS and reducing mitochondrial efficiency through typically excessive hormetic stressors, whether that be light, electricity, oxygen, et cetera. So there's a lot of diminishing returns for sure.

Ian Mitchell [00:39:30]: Yeah, 100. So that, all that stuff, I mean when you trigger a hormetic stressor. Your body responds typically in a good way, but if you do it too much. Yeah, it overloads. It's that, you know, the term that we would use is a biphasic dose response curve. So you do something beneficial. And Mike Hamblin at Harvard did a lot of really good research on this. It's basically you.

Ian Mitchell [00:39:49]: You put energy into the system, it helps you, helps you, helps you, helps you, helps you. Then you overload the system and it drops you lower than you were when you started. Which is why, you know, we've talked about this. I always recommend people doing red light for hair growth. If they're going to do it just a couple minutes a day, that's fine. But if they're going to do it for a pronounced period of time, like say 20 minutes or something, 12 days on, seven days off. 12 days on, seven days off. Because you avoid that biphasic dose response.

Ian Mitchell [00:40:16]: Drop and you go up, then you wait, then you go up again. So instead of dropping, you plateau.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:22]: It's like classic exercise based periodization. Right. Stair stepping effect for fitness.

Ian Mitchell [00:40:27]: Yeah. And you see that over and over because that's how we're built. GLP1s. A lot of people have the same response with that. They'll get on things like tirzepatide, they'll lose a lot of weight and then they plateau. How do you break that? They refeed. Right. They hit themselves with a carbohydrate load and then they actually start moving again.

Ian Mitchell [00:40:43]: But you have to allow for that plateau, otherwise bad things happen.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:47]: Yeah. That might even be why, and I was thinking about this when you were talking about a ketogenic approach to cancer, that a guy like Thomas Seyfried has made a pretty strong case for pressed pulse cycling with glucose so that you don't get to a state where you don't even have enough for proper immune function or T cell regulation. So it's almost as though you adopt a ketogenic approach. And this is typically done under medical management, but there are certain times of the ketogenic period during which you refeed with glucose.

Ian Mitchell [00:41:14]: Yeah, well, and Tom Seyfried's stuff is really good because he's using a thing called DONS, which is 6 diazo 5 nor leucine, and it really suppresses glutamate uptake and because like I was saying earlier, that's part of your problem. Right. Like you can block sugars in ketosis, but your body will still trigger the production of sugars from proteins. And he uses a thing called DONS or that's the acronym for it, to inhibit that. But you can also. DONS is a little tricky because it can completely block it. And that's why they pulse, press it and do a cycle like that. But if you completely block it, it will kill you.

Ian Mitchell [00:41:50]: And so my take is do you can hit sort of similar effects with curcumin. So I recommend people take nano curcumin and EGCG from green tea and you get a very similar effect in terms of glutamate inhibition.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:04]: And assuming you're looking for systemic effects from the curcumin for people who use it for gut inflammation, I think the use of bioperine or black pepper along with it isn't something you'd recommend because that will increase absorption from the gut into the blood. But in the case of what you've just described, you'd want a very bioavailable form of curcumin or tumorosaccharides or something like that. Or you'd want to take it with black pepper.

Ian Mitchell [00:42:28]: Yeah. And I'd recommend it because the nanoscopic size just basically you can fit more things through membranes just if you break the size down. So nanococcumin, I typically tell people to take a. There's a soluble version that I tell people to take.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:42]: Is that like a certain, certain brand?

Ian Mitchell [00:42:45]: Yeah, I'll send it to you. You can link it in the show notes if you want.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:48]: Okay, yeah, cool. I will show notes, by the way, for folks listening are at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Inhalepodcast Am, I know you're always up to all sorts of interesting things at your super secret Batman labs. Are there any other projects beyond super oxygenated water that you've been working on or any insider things you're able to reveal?

Ian Mitchell [00:43:08]: Yeah. Okay, so very shortly we've got. It's a sleep aid. And I did this because so many people have asked me about, can I do something to help with sleep? So I came up with a little shot. That's a sleep aid. And initially we tested it with some of the guys at the lab and then a couple of people who had, you know, actually diagnosed insomnia and. And it worked, right? It would actually knock out the insomniacs and, you know, they, they were fine, but it changed everybody's dream quality and it was a little too vivid. And then the people who were normal that took it, we jokingly started calling it tranq dart.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:50]: Didn't show up at the office the next morning.

Ian Mitchell [00:43:53]: Yeah, yeah, there was an absence of people. Yeah. No, it just like, even the people who always are up super early to exercise and everybody's on point, they couldn't move. Like, they were like, ahhh.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:05]: Dude, what are you putting in it?

Ian Mitchell [00:44:07]: That, that actually was a combination of two of the components that were triggering that part. So. And it was kind of a process to work it backwards to figure out what got the right effect, but didn't hit that. That was valerinic acid and 5 HTP.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:21]: So valerinic acid, would that be like the concentrated version of what you find in valerian root?

Ian Mitchell [00:44:25]: Exactly, yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. So that, that kind of takes the. Takes the edge off, but those two things, there was a. A ratio that needed to be adjusted, and there is kind of a sweet spot. And when you hit the sweet spot, it works like a champ. Puts everybody to sleep, they have good dreams, but not, you know, like, it doesn't feel like they're just waking up in another reality and then, you know, they can get up in the morning as opposed to being just absolutely hammered.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:48]: And are those the only two components, HTP and valerinic acid?

Ian Mitchell [00:44:51]: No, there's. There's like eight different things in there, and it's, you know, and sleep, not shockingly, is a relatively complicated thing because you've got a lot of different stuff going down in a lot of different systems that you have to kind of tap and adjust and loop in. And so to modulate all of those different components, I always try and do things in terms of like, the minimum effective dose and also the, the minimum number of constituents and whatever I'm putting together to get the right yield. And so sometimes I'll start with a much larger list and then kind of reductively, I'll go down and pair it until I can get the same effect, but without something, you know, just take out. Like, if I find a compound, like one of the other things in there is alpha gpc, the glycerol, phosphorylcholine, and, you know, that actually replaces a couple of other compounds. So, you know, I just keep paring down until I figure out a way to do it that's efficient so it doesn't put a bunch of extra stuff in your body.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:46]: So when will people be able to purchase tranq dart?

Ian Mitchell [00:45:50]: Probably beginning of March. They'll be able to get it.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:54]: Yeah. So maybe three or four weeks after the show comes out?

Ian Mitchell [00:45:56]: Yeah, about. Yeah, about a month after the show airs. Should be up on the site. And then the other thing that I've been kind of jazzed by is we, we were working on a process to eliminate type 1 diabetes. And that. That's kind of a, that's a cool one. And so we've only done it once, but it worked. And it was a relatively simple, simple procedure.

Ian Mitchell [00:46:21]: But it's, you know, more will be coming on that I have the, the second, the second person doing that will be here tomorrow.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:29]: Oh, and is this like a, like a supplement that you've designed or something different?

Ian Mitchell [00:46:33]: No, it's not. It's actually. So that's when you look at something that, like in the case of. That it's right at. Typically it's thought of as an autoimmune response to beta cells in the pancreas. And you can't, at least in my experience, you can't necessarily hit a problem head on, which is one of my issues with the way that we do things in allopathic medicine a lot. And standard kind of western chemistry is we, we try and use just a bigger and bigger and bigger hammer to crush one thing. And that's not how the body works.

Ian Mitchell [00:47:05]: Right. You, you need something that's appropriate and usually it's multifactorial. Right. Like the, you have to look at all of the different components. So that's a combination of peptides and exosomes and a couple of other, you know, super magical things that will be coming out shortly. We're going to publish a paper on it. And it's really. Yeah, that one that actually made me happy because.

Ian Mitchell [00:47:28]: And I know I sent you the, the text from the, the person that did this. She had been a type 1 diabetic for 33 years. And that was, that was awesome to me. Like, straight up cool. Like, she was, she was dumbfounded. You know, she, she texted, literally she texts me every day because she's continuing to track all of her numbers and everything. And it's pretty epic. And I actually with that.

Ian Mitchell [00:47:53]: Because what happens is you, you re-trigger the beta cells and the islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas and they start to proliferate again. And then when that happens, you know, they, they start growing and they're producing their own insulin. And that's, that's an. Honestly, it's an easy thing to test for because in the case of type 1 diabetics, they are diabetic, they don't have C peptide produced in the pancreas. And then when that you can trigger a lot of C peptide, you know that the pancreas is actually producing Insulin, which is something that's easily tested for, because if they're just taking exogenous insulin, that doesn't happen. Right. You don't get the C peptide component from the pancreas.

Ian Mitchell [00:48:31]: And so it's, it's kind of. Even when I was talking to the, the doctor about doing the full scale clinical trial on it, just so I could suss out the validity of it and publish with something larger, you know, I was asking about what we needed to do for a control, and, you know, basically the result was we don't need a control. You know, that's. You have 1.8 million people in the control already. It's all of the other type 1 diabetics. It's not something, you know, you have like this idiopathic healing process where spontaneously you're great again and you're all healed. That just doesn't happen. So if you take someone who's type 1 and you trigger a cessation of their type 1, then you're back.

Ian Mitchell [00:49:08]: And it's kind of, it's an interesting process because there were a lot of components that sort of blew me away after the fact that I hadn't. Honestly, I just never thought about it. Like, one of them was the woman who had the procedure after the fact. She was texting me about her blood sugar numbers and she said, I smelled a fig candle from Whole Foods and my blood sugar dropped 20 points. And I thought, wow, that's okay, that's weird. And so I texted her back and said, smell a cupcake. And so she smelled a cupcake and her blood sugar, and this was like a day later she did it so she could renormalize. Her blood sugar dropped 40 points.

Ian Mitchell [00:49:48]: And I thought, what the hell? What is going on? But then I started thinking about it, like, historically, the way our body evolved. The only time we would have smelled something with that much sweetness is literally if we had a very overly ripe fruit in our hand and we were about to eat it. Right. So biologically speaking, there's this olfaction component that when you olfactually trigger it, your body starts pre digestion, right? It's getting ready for whatever you're about to consume. That was kind of a, that was a strange one.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:18]: That's fascinating. And would that have been an insulinogenic response?

Ian Mitchell [00:50:21]: Yeah, exactly. That's, that's exactly what it is.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:24]: Olfactory based insulin genic response, huh?

Ian Mitchell [00:50:26]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know, right? Like that's, that's. I mean, that's the kind of stuff I love about this because it's not. It's not something I can go to Google or PubMed and look up research on.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:38]: Hopefully it works. If you, if you can smell a steak to build muscle.

Ian Mitchell [00:50:43]: That would. That would be great. You'd see me walking around with that attached to my nose all the time.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:48]: Yeah. How far out are you in terms of being able to release that data, those findings or that protocol to the general public?

Ian Mitchell [00:50:54]: Well, so we're going to do more testing on it so we can have one definitive endpoint and do a clinical trial on it. I'm going to start. I've already released it to a few doctors in terms of how to do it. So it's out there. So it's going to be coming at some point. Really? That's one of those things. And it's stupid, easy. It's not some crazy, complicated thing.

Ian Mitchell [00:51:18]: My real concern with that is anytime you shake up an industry, like we all have this kind of naivete about thinking that everybody wants everybody else better. And I, you know, that's. Unfortunately, that's not the case because when there are a lot of entrenched monetary interest in play, things get dicey. Like with type 1 diabetics, there's 1.8 million of them in the country. The average annual expenditure is 27,500 bucks per patient, which accounts for $49.5 billion of annual revenue to companies, right. Mostly pharma companies, for production of insulin and peripheral material. The patients want it gone. The people who are impinged biologically because of that want it gone.

Ian Mitchell [00:51:57]: But the guys who are tracking billions of dollars to their bottom line, they 100% do not want anything to shift. Right? They, I mean, they, they may back a foundation or say like, yeah, we're working on, you know, this or that. But then they publish papers like living with type 2 diabetes. And I know you know this, but like, like read Jason Fung's book. You know, he's a good doctor. He's a nephrologist. Like, you don't want type 2 diabetes.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:20]: Fast fasting, macronutrient ratios, exercise. Yeah, yeah.

Ian Mitchell [00:52:24]: I mean, that's something that, with the current technology, we have very easily dealt with. You know, that's a. There's kind of a contrast of insulin sensitivity. Sensitivity and insulin receptivity. And when you hit those balances, you can really help people, you know, with this. It'll be out next year, early next year, because I've already started disseminating everything. But I figure it'll take probably a full year to do all the clinicals and all that stuff. And it's cool because everything's autologous.

Ian Mitchell [00:52:52]: Everything is just 90 minutes at my lab out the door. Done.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:56]: Yeah. Wow. Well, I'm super excited to see it, man.

Ian Mitchell [00:52:59]: Yeah, me too, man. That's one of those things. It's moving the needle. I used to have this big thing on the board. The motto for the company is move the needle for Wizard Sciences. And I had this thing that said, fix the people. Break the system. Because intrinsically good, bad or otherwise, I'm going to try and help.

Ian Mitchell [00:53:22]: That's how I'm wired. Pick your fight. And that's my fight.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:26]: You're doing it in a very unique way. And for those of you listening in, I'll link to Ian's website, Wizard Sciences. But also if you want to try this stuff, I actually have a plane to catch, so I'll start wrapping up so I can go, you know, try getting through airport security with one of these and maybe stash an extra one just in case. But you can get it. I'll put links in the show notes. We got discount codes and everything. Go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Inhalepodcast and then Ian has so many other cool products at Wizard Sciences. I'll just link to all this stuff as well as the two other wide ranging podcasts that I did with him.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:58]: So Ian, until you get your butt out to Idaho, yeah, I'll say goodbye. But dude, this is incredible and I really think folks should try this. So people, I love this in this setting. Inhale. Permission granted to Inhale.

Ian Mitchell [00:54:13]: All right, much love, Ben. Take it easy, man. Good to see you.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:16]: All right, folks, show [email protected]/Inhalepodcast thanks for joining. Try this stuff out for yourself. Keep me posted on what you think in the comments section where you can leave your feedback, questions, anything else you want to run by me and Ian. I read all those comments, so feel free to pipe in. Have a amazing week to discover even.

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