February 9, 2013
Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.
Maximum Overspeed Training.
Arcwave Electrical Stimulation.
These are just a few of the advanced endurance training techniques that Jay Schroeder reveals in today's interview…
You may remember Jay (pictured right) from the article: Top 10 Lessons Learned at Dave Asprey’s Bulletproof Biohacking Conference.
He's the guy that hooked up my abs to maximum electrical muscle stimulation that left me engaged in a maximal stomach muscle contraction with sweat pouring down my face as every muscle in my body contracted at 100% intensity to stabilize my core.
When I finished, I felt as though I’d literally done 1000 situps, or worked my core for a full hour.
But Jay was just getting started, and in today's interview, he reveals the techniques he uses at EVOAthlete to achieve extremely fast results with minimal training.
Jay has trained Olympic swimmers who swim just 100 meters per workout.
He prepared a woman who successfully ran 93 marathons in 93 days, with just a mile of running every few days.
A man after my own heart, Jay has prepared endurance athletes to achieve maximum results with minimal training – although he uses tactics I have not yet begun to implement, but plan on “guinea-pigging” and revealing on this website as my personal training for Ironman Canada progresses.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts about these extremely fringe training concepts Jay talks about in the interview…
…and whether you think I can blast through Ironman Canada this year using these strategies and working personally with Jay. Leave your comments below!
62 thoughts on “How Underground Russian Techniques From Old Soviet Training Journals Can Turn You Into An Endurance Beast.”
I realize that this is VERY LATE but what about the theory of “anti-glycolytic” methodology that
Pavel Tsatsouline advocates. I wonder if “expanding” the aerobic and anaerobic (less than 10 sec.)
“windows” will allow for the body to produce more force without lactate ‘build-up”!
This is about the arp and its long term effect
This video has no control group information. It is not conclusive of anything.
If you are looking at an affordable alternative to the Therastim and ARP Wave, check out the Globus Phoenix.
Square wave with carrier at 10 kHz, and zero net charge but tweaked to have a DC component; it is coupled with a low frequency waveform at 500 Hz and 500 µs of pulsewidth positive and 500 µs negative. Electron flow is reversible. Output is constant current going up to 120 mA on channels 1 and 3.
The Phoenix causes deep muscle contraction but still allows full active range of motion. Eccentric training, strong muscle contractions by the Phoenix then lengthening the muscles through specific mobility protocols are integral the Phoenix therapy and training protocols.
T3-T4 is the 10 kHz carrier, and T1-T2 is the 500 Hz pulse, in which T1 = T2 = 500 µs. Output is constant current going up to 120 mA on channels 1 and 3.
From an amp (Ampères) point of view and from a waveform shape point of view, this waveform is one of the most powerful EMS units out there.
New website for the Phoenix Waveform
Great interview. Jay’s methods of training make sense. I will try to parse something together for myself gleaned from this podcast and whatever other info I can find. Ben, is there anything in particular you would recommend or point out regarding Jay’s protocol? I look forward to hearing your experiences working with him.
I pretty much summed it up in the podcast James. I dig his protocol. Everybody should have a few good protocols in their "back pocket" and this is definitely one of mine…EMS + isometrics + power.
My name is Jonathan Brookins. I am a professional MMA fighter, was in the UFC for awhile, and was even the winner of their reality show the ultimate fighter season 12, with G.S.P as my coach. I just wanted to say that you are such an inspiration and I am so thankful for all that you do. Your work is so progressive and so helpful. I am really really very interested in this podcast, but I can’t seem to find it. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
Hey Jonathan, the audio is definitely working. Maybe try the page in a different browser… and look for the big green 'play' triangle.
Hi Ben, hi Jay,
I got the Compex, I got the EVO ultrafit training, I got so far BASICALLY everything Ben talks in his book beyond training… I’m hooked. I’m a CIRQUE DU SOLEIL PERFORMER and I’m looking to go to Arizona to have one-on-one training with Jay. Time to bring my game to the next level.
I would like to know what exercises (if there’s any) can I do while using the COMPEX.
Unfortunately it has been impossible to reach EVO ultrafit personnel. No answer on the phone, no answer by email, no answer by messages… Nothing so far. Please help.
Thank you very much
Hey, did you every get any help this this? I have studied Schroeder for years and work closely with someone who has worked directly with Jay. I also use the Compex and have used the ARP and can help you out with it’s implementation with isometrics.
Email me: [email protected]
Uh… I learned almost nothing.
This is the best podcast ever!!!!
Any and all who are interested in learning more about Neurological Training from Jay and Evo UltraFit, there are two excellent upcoming opportunities:
1. Neurological Efficiency Webinar: July 11, 2013 7:30pm CST http://wp.me/P3cfP6-3n
2. Nervous System Training Camp: August 2-3, 2013 Minnesota http://wp.me/P3cfP6-1g
For those of you wanting to be Guinea Pigs, this will be a 2 day hands on diving into Evo Neurological Training
Ben I'm loving listening to your podcasts during my long run days while prepping for my first marathon and IM WI. in Sept. I've been having IT band issues with running and getting frustrated with the pain, time and money with rehab. Once I heard this podcast and mentioning electro muscle stimulation, I immediately wanted to know more for rehab reasons and eventually strenth and endurance training. I'll definitely be looking into this more! Thanks a bunch and keep it up!
And be sure to check out http://www.bulletproofknee.com too, Ben!
I enjoyed this show as well. I am more interested in learning how to apply these principle to bodybuilding and powerlifting. Thanks Ben.
Wow! This is amazing. I would like to get involved in this. Ben, can you email me the exercises he is talking about?
I'd go to his YouTube channel, Chad. https://www.youtube.com/user/EVOUltraFit
You can reach me personally at 480-225-7223. We can license the POV modality to you. It is a class 2 medical device and cannot be outright purchased. We offer many levels of management from single programs to year long management that provides for a POV to use during this time, and most anything between. I look forward to your call.
Anything that is neurological in nature can be enhanced through the creation of a plastic, dynamic, healthy nervous system. Once this is available then each person can apply it to any display they choose.
What is it with Jay's website? There seems to be now way to access anything. The links all just go around in circles. Is it possible to buy a machine? Is there a way to find a clinic or gym that has one? And yes, Geoff, I would think this is extremely applicable to musicians if you could find someone who understands exactly what muscles are involved beyond just moving your fingers, such as how you sit or stand when performing.
Would this approach have any relevance to learning musical instruments such as violin which require learning to repeat rapid movements accurately?
I will be running the Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run this June, based on Jay's methods, how would I mix in my need for logging long training runs and the EVO athlete methods? Is it possible to mix the two philosophies?
Should read “mainly cycling” and “to be trained by you” ;-)
Hi Ben, it was indeed a very interesting podcast! However, the key issue I have is how to intelligently incorporate some of this training into my normal training schedule which in my case is Manila cycling. Any recommendations?
To add to this: However, I would never cut my 2-3 hours weekend rides for that as I love riding through nature etc too much.
Btw you are doing an awesome job with your Podcasts etc. Can you also Email me a Suggestion how much it would be to be trained you with the aim to peak form on the 14th of july during the Challenge Roth where I will ride the 180k on the bike in the Macca MX12 VIP relay.
Thxs and cheers
GREAT PODCAST! the last 2 have been mind blowing. Look forward to more with evoathletics
Ben, you've asked for questions. The podcast was great but I don't know how to use it. I'm unable to run with a car or attach electrodes to my body. There was not too much information that I could use now. You have talked with Jay that he will test some things on you. Maybe after that there will be some training things to incorporate into training.
Very intriguing and a bit confusing… I would like to know more about what an 'Ironman Training Protocol' would look like on a daily/weekly basis. It would seem that this sort of training would require in person professional instruction and supervision during the workouts which would make it difficult for the average age grouper.
I really enjoyed this podcast. Any chance of getting Jay to the Super Human Event? Tell us more so we can do this stuff at home.
Please open up a few Guinea Pigs slots along with you! I would love to do this!
When Jay makes the comment that what he means by overspeed is increases of 60% for as long as a person can hold that pace or power output (and he states that a person may only be able to complete one rep or one event the first time), I'm asking 60% of what? What is the measurable that we're taking 60% of?
At about 44:10, Jay blows his own mind. It's hilarious!!!!
I remember Adam Archuleta – played for the Rams and the Bears. I remember seeing a special on his training techniques — high speed, explosive, movements as I recall. I don't remember the extremely slow isometrics being discussed at that time, though. I had no idea this was the same guy who had trained Archuleta. An aha moment.
Yep, that was him Jared! Jay turned Archuleta into an animal!
I would like to see a link to these old soviet training journals and also how to perform the exercises he was talking about. Very confusing podcast with good info if it was explained more.
This is nothing new. Jay took a kid in the 90s and trained him using these techniques for football. He built this football player up. I think his name was Artulleta or something. It was a huge success and everybody wanted in on this training system. Do some research. These concepts are all about proper movement. And yes its very important. But you still have to put in the work. He works with Tim Thomas who is a fantastic hockey goaltender. But hes not telling Tim Thomas not to go practice with his team and instead do isometric holds and the like. He got Tim healthy and strong and helped him move better which made his performance better. That is no secret. Work on firing the right muscles and you will increase performance. Dont think that this guy is the only guy who has ever had access to Russian journals. If this was the way to go why didn’t this stay the craze in the 90s until present. There are no shortcuts people.
A Swedish (??) study of swimmers doing iso-exercises–holding for 5+ min–was referenced…citation?
Did he give you the name of the original published (Russian) studies/training journals?
I’m a semi-pro cyclist with access (through my university) to TMS, TES and everything of that nature. Do you have any recommendations on how to incorporate it into my program?
Aslo I’m curious how exentric muscle work can help something that is almost entirely concentric (cycling).
Hi Ben, I would also be interested to know if you could recommend any more literature on extreme isometrics for someone who knows nothing about it at all. I'm currently using Maffetone for my base training, but I would love to learn more about this approach because it also appears to be schedule friendly. Thanks, Adam
Unfortunately one cannot use our information with other electrical modalities as they communicate very different information. This information created by other modalities causes the body to go into a protection causing only concentric contraction. The ARP POV Sport uses direct current (dc) compounded with a high frequency, double exponential, patented background waveform. this background wave is harmonious with the body. this significantly reduces skin and fatty tissue impedance, thus allowing much deeper penetration of the direct current without troublesome side effects such as skin burning. The unique waveform, produced by the ARP POV Sport, creates minimal protective muscle contractions allowing active range of motion during training. this permits eccentric (lengthening) contractions to occur. these lengthening contractions are critical to elite training results.
First, true eccentric work develops starting strength. I was referring to the condition of muscles being at length [eccentrically contracted] they have the capabilities of absorbing and creating many times more force than a concentrically contracted [shortened] muscle. Also consider your statement that cycling is almost entirely concentric. Every time a muscle concentrically contracts its antagonist must eccentrically contract to the exact same velocity and load. Therefore any movement a human makes is always both, only when it becomes dominated by concentric contractions do problems occur, the ultimate being rigor mortis.
Great podcast, thank you Ben. Another guinea pig available here.
Ben, does this not contradict what Phil Maffetone's method teaches? I was so on board with Phil's approach but now after listening to this it has just confused me. I know you have a conference coming up and Phil will be there talking about his method. Will this contradict it or go along with it. I'm sure it's just my lack of knowledge and I'm totally open to learn more. After listening to this I want even be able to sleep because I so want to dive into this and figure it out! Thanks for the podcast as I really enjoyed it and very eager to learn more and experiment to figure this out.
Fred,I am not a Maff method exercise methods, but am a fan of the other components of his method, such as nutrition, de-stress, health balance, etc. Listen to my podcast with Rich Roll to hear us talk about why. It will really answer all your questions. Phil actually is NOT speaking on the Maff Method at Become Superhuman (for that reason and also because we're honing in his research and experience with music, sound and performance instead).
Very interesting! I would also love to be a guinea pig in this study. I run 800 meter to 100 miles races. Some of my best races is where I have only ran 30 to 40 miles Week and I believe I could have gotten by with less. I also wish to gain more muscle.
great stuff….really looking forward to learning more about this. I have been doing the Body by Science protocol and have seen great gains from that. I did have a hard time following a lot of his rationele, specifically the loading parameters of the Bench Press example. Outside of the electrical devises is there a significant amount of equipment needed to implement this. Is just doing 1 5 minute squat the protocol for energy system development? Do you do overspeed training all day? This stuff was so exciting to hear about, but tons of questions. I sample workout would probably help me understand some of the philosophy. Thanks again for having Jay as a guest, seems like a pretty amazing guy
I'm going to see if I can convince Jay or Charles to come on and respond to some of these comments!
We use iso extremes/extreme slows to develop energy systems on a regular basis. This occurs because there is constant work being performed for extended periods of time, with less opportunity for compensatory action than more traditional means of preparation.
The amount of overspeed work we do depends on the preparation of the individual, their ability recover from the stimulus, and the ability to be allostatic in nature. When an individual is prepared to the appropriate level overspeed work can be done everyday.
At our facility we overspeed train multiple times per day. The limitation lies in the individuals preparation to recover from this. The individuals ability to put forth and participate with 100% of what i refer to as p.i.p.e.s. [physiology – intellect – psychology – emotion – spirit] people in general are neurologically underdeveloped and under stimulated due to the less than stellar participation for all of the elements of what i refer to p.i.p.e.s.
Very interesting. I'm having trouble connecting the dots though. For starters, I have serious trouble seeing myself running on bungee cords behind a van, although I have had that experience courtesy of a runaway foal when I was much younger. Can it be assumed that this is one big step past HIIT where the way to change metabolic set point is to deplete the muscles, so somehow the way to coordinated muscle development is simply to operate at full capacity until you go splat? Not sure I understand WHY the agonist/antagonist muscle balance requires the flat out pace or did I get that wrong — was that the underpinning of the extremely slow con/eccentric happening together?? I'm looking forward to the next installments on this one!!!
We have found that in order for muscles to work without compensatory action they must turn on and off to lengthen and shorten at near maximal force and velocity.
I went through the ARPWave protocols about a year and a half ago for some hip & shoulder pain I was dealing with. I did not do a pre & post performance test before my 5 days of double treatments. Pain was gone by the end of 5 days with full ROM. I'd love to go through a performance protocol as well sometime. Intense but also incredible results in a very short period of time.
Very interesting, Ryan. I'm super stoked to be trying this stuff out!
This was a mind-blowing info! X2 on given a CHANCE at being a Guinea Pig!!!!! This is brings a hole new meaning to work smatter not harder per se. Thanks Ben and Jay for bring this info to us.
I would also love to be a guinea pig. Just need to find someone qualified with Jay's system here in New England.
Be careful what you wish for. ;)
Did someone say "New England?" I would be stoked, this was a great interview Ben. Thanks.
I really enjoyed this podcast – especially as it was longer and the way you gave Jay the opportunity to expand his answers in a meaningful way.
I'm not sure I "got" every aspect of his philosophy, so I'll be interested to hear more about it in the future.
Glad you liked. I'll definitely keep you and others posted on my work with Jay.
Our Philosophy at EVO UltraFit is simple, "The human is a miracle." Simply take a look at a single cell and its capabilities, now look at 10 trillion of them working in harmony, allowing for predictable and duplicatable responses, thought, sight, hearing, touch etc..
What ever happened to EVO Athlete? I know this podcast is old but I would love to find a way to implement this training.