[Transcript] – How I’ve Been Able To Gorge On Delicious Gluten-Filled Foods Without Feeling Like I Swallowed A Pair Of Motor-Powered Scissors Tearing Up My Intestines.

Affiliate Disclosure


Podcast from: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/nutrition-podcasts/gluten-guardian/

[0:00:00] Beginning of The Podcast

[0:00:00] Podcast Sponsors – Part 1

[0:04:29] Introduction to The Gluten Podcast

[0:05:53] Guests Introduction

[0:08:14] Matt's Calorie Intake on Sundays

[0:10:22] Taking Gluten Without Celiac Disease

[0:11:50] Difference of Wheat Germ in Gluten and Gluten

[0:13:45] About Glyphosate

[0:16:00] Nutrient Quality of Food in the 1900s

[0:18:00] Use of Enzymes in the Preparation of Food

[0:20:30] Evaluating Gluten Sensitivity or Gluten Cross-reactivity

[0:24:04] How Can Gluten Affect the Brain

[0:25:58] Casein-free Diet

[0:28:00] A1 and A2 Milk

[0:29:20] Their Opinion of Monsanto

[0:31:54] Podcast Sponsors – Part 2

[0:35:00] Continuation on Monsanto

[0:36:00] The Enzymatic Function of the Body

[0:37:28] The Dipeptidyl Peptidase 4

[0:43:00] Taking the Masszymes

[0:45:03] Effect on Foods Not Containing Gluten?

[0:47:06] New Formulation on Keto Enzymes

[0:49:01] Gluten Guardian for Kids

[0:49:40] Matt and Wade's Diet and Workout

[0:55:10] HCL and Hydrochloric Acid with Gluten Guardian

[0:58:00] Best Time of the Day to Take and The Probiotic Myth

[1:02:58] Closing the Gluten Podcast

[1:05:57] End of Podcast

Ben:  Well, howdy, howdy, how, I didn’t see you there. No, I did. I knew you were going to be there the whole time, listening in with bated breath. Speaking of bated breath, you're going to learn in this podcast episode how to have your cake and eat it too. No, really, literally, have your cake and eat it too, because I'm interviewing guys who have invented a way for your body to be able to digest gluten.

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Ben:  Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield and I've been getting a lot of questions lately about this mysterious molecule that I consume these days before I eat any bread or pasta. It's a compound that allows me to digest gluten without any of the bathroom decommissioning that so notoriously occurs after a hefty bout of gluten consumption. Basically, it's the way of been able to gorge on delicious gluten-filled foods without feeling like I swallowed a pair of motor-powered scissors tearing up my intestines, as they say. I don't know if they say that but I just said it. So, anyways, I don't want to not eat bread or pasta for the rest of my life. I recently posted to Instagram my children and I eating at this place called Wild Sage here in Spokane. One of the lovely things they bring out when you eat at Wild Sage are popovers and they filled with lavender butter and they're amazing but they're also highly gluten-filled and I still want to eat them.

So, I've been using this molecule that I'm going to talk to you a little bit about on today's show along with my guests because whether due to glyphosate exposure from pesticides and herbicides or stress or a leaky gut, there are a host of modern assailants that I think may gluten a bigger issue than it ever has been in human history and I want to delve into a little bit of better living through science to actually make gluten digestible.

The guys who I'm about to speak with and who you're about to hear from have actually been on the podcast before. We did a podcast called Probiotic Enemas, Digestive Enzymes Myths, Breathing Ten Kilograms of Oxygen, Low Protein Diets, and more. I will a link to that previous episode with these cats if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/glutenpodcast. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/glutenpodcast. Anyways, their names are Matt Gallant and Wade Lightheart. Matt’s an entrepreneur, he's a poker champion, he's an ex-rock guitarist, he's a serial entrepreneur. He’s built 13 companies in the last 20 years. He's a strength conditioning coach with a degree in Kinesiology and he's the CEO of a company called BiOptimizers. And, Wade is actually a three-time All-Natural Bodybuilding Champion, happens to be a vegan as well. He's an advisor to the American Anti-Cancer Institute. He's co-founder of BiOptimizers along with Matt and he's written some books like “Staying Alive in a Toxic World” and another book called, “The Wealthy Backpacker.” So, these guys are interesting fellows chockful of information and today chock full of gluten. So, welcome to the show, guys.

Wade:  Great to be here.

Matt:  Always love talking with you, Ben so, we’re excited.

Ben:  Are you guys like punishing a baguette right now or some gluten?

Matt:  That was yesterday. I keep it to Sundays, my spike days to enjoy 6,000 to 10,000 calories a day and I got to say the molecule we're going to talk about was a game changer because you know, sometimes even the other types of enzymes, there was still some digestive stress but now, it's totally pain-free and fun.

Ben:  That’s Matt talking by the way, for those of you listening in. Matt, did you say 6,000 to 10,000 calories?

Matt:  Correct.

Ben:  On every Sunday?

Matt:  Pretty much, yes.

Ben:  Why?

Matt:  For the calorie spike, primarily so for six days, I do one meal a day thanks to your guidance. Thanks for that. And then, on the seventh day, I spike. I reload my glycogen. It’s extremely anabolic. I’ve able to build about 27 pounds of main tissue in the last three years while burning body fat doing this.

Ben:  Geez, so, you're doing one meal a day for six days in a row. And then, on the last day, are you eating three meals a day or is that still one meal that you eat 6,000 calories to 10,000 calories?

Matt:  No, it's kind of eating all day.

Ben:  Wow.

Matt:  Yes.

Ben:  Healthy stuff or just anything?

Matt:  Little bit of both. I'd say probably half and half. So, I do like making some really rich fun kind of superfood deserts and then, you know, go get a burger, might eat some pizza, might eat some pasta, might go to the–whatever but yes, it's fun.

Ben:  How do you feel the next day?

Matt:  Good, good, good. I feel awesome. I went to train this morning, fasted, you know, with your keto too you're burning glycogen Monday, Tuesday, and a little bit Wednesday. By Wednesday, most of the glycogen is gone but it does give me a boost in the gym for Monday, Tuesday and I'm still got ketones. You know, I measure my ketones. On Monday, it’s still usually on .5 because I’ve been on for so long. So, basically, I'm dual fuel.

Ben:  Last question before we talk about gluten, are you are you training on the day you’re eating all that food? Or are you just training on those days were you doing one meal a day and then, taking that day off that where you don't eat calories?

Matt:  I'm taking it off. I do believe I'd probably get even more muscle gains if I did [0:09:29] ______ because insulin is incredibly anabolic. You know, that’s why a lot of bodybuilders inject it.

Ben:  Yeah.

Matt:  But, I like taking Sundays off so for that reason, I don’t.

Ben:  Wow. Interesting that sounds like an exhausting Sunday, just eating all day with no breaks.

Matt:  I find it fun but, yeah, to each his own.

Ben:  Wow. Okay, well, I want to talk about how you incorporate this concept of enzymes and we have a whole previous podcast on the digestive enzymes that you use and we'll talk a little more about enzymes as well because you also have an article on my website called, “How to Take Digestive Enzymes,” and I’ll link to that took over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/glutenpodcast. But, I want to start here. I think a lot of folks nowadays are worried that gluten can cause issues even if you don't have celiac disease. There are books about this like “Grain Brain,” for example that delve into the neuroinflammatory aspects of gluten even if it doesn't cause any type of stomach distress. But, in your opinion, I’d like you to just talk about that a little bit especially if people might be unfamiliar with why we should still be cognizant of our gluten intake even if we don't have celiac disease per se.

Matt:  Oh, the New England Journal of Medicine listed 55 diseases that can be caused by eating gluten. The real big issue is about 99% of the people better sensitive to gluten, don't know it. A lot of the diseases there are primarily immune, neurological and even psychiatric. Some of them, we're talking depression cycle, you know, schizophrenia, epilepsy, migraines, neuropathy, anxiety, dementia, autism, as a whole, autoimmunity is the third leading cause of death in the world. So, inflammation, is not just the gluten too, when you’re eating a lot of this stuff, the inflammation from the wheats can be a problem, and again, not just the gluten, but amylase, trypsin, inhibitors, ATIs is what they’re called, can provoke an inflammatory immune response in the G.I. tract by stimulating immune cells and that occurs in people regardless of whether they are still celiac or not. Another one here for the non-celiac crowd is the wheat germs in gluten and is an inflammatory immune disrupting protein found in wheat and despite the similar names, it’s not the same thing as gluten.

Ben:  What's the difference between wheat germ in gluten and gluten?

Matt:  Well, it's just another type of protein.

Ben:  Okay. Also resistant to digestion?

Matt:  Yes.

Ben:  And then, this amylase, trypsin that you’ve talked about, that's an inflammatory molecule that is similar to gluten or simply comes packaged along with gluten?

Matt:  It comes packaged. It's specifically wheat.

Ben:  Okay, alright.

Matt:  Yes, specifically wheat. And then, the other thing too that we’re going to talk about leaky gut but I think a lot of– especially the wheat germ gluten, it can just provoke an inflammatory response in the gut cells and disturb the natural immune bearer in the gut which makes the gut more permeable so then, you start getting leaky gut. So, leaky gut, in our research is caused a lot by the wheats and it's obviously extremely problematic for a lot of reasons that I'm sure you’re quite [00:12:42] ______.

Ben:  What do you think of this idea though that I hear this thrown around by a lot of gastroenterologists, for example, that it's not gluten that's the problem. It's the fact that, say people, have leaky guts from stress or from an antibiotic regimen or from a non-fermented food intake, and so, they've got a slightly permeable gut lining or they've been exposed to glyphosate which we know can also wreak some havoc on the gut and render it somewhat more permeable and that if we address those variables or like fix leaky gut and eat foods that do not contain glyphosate or use supplements, you know, like I've talked before about someone like Restore right which helps to protect the gut from the ravages of glyphosate, though you wouldn't have to worry about gluten.

Matt:  Yes. Wade, do you want to talk about the glyphosate question?

Wade:  Yes, it's a great thing in you know our research is into gaining a couple interesting things about glyphosate. Number one, is they've done testing from the 40s and now we're seeing a four X increase in the diagnosis of celiac disease and whether tracing it to is glyphosate and how it's interrupting the digestive, so let's say, the whole digestive process particularly with how it's affecting protein assimilation. It's also altering the microbiome of the micro biotic environment. Changing how the bacteria growth inside or inside our bodies. What's interesting there is a study I think in 2009, was showing how glyphosate doesn't just affect gluten but it can affect the activity of protease, lipase, and amylase. So, I think there is a combination of factors. I think there is a definitely a certain percentage of the population has trouble with gluten but this percentage is going to continue to increase because of the expose of glyphosate and this was also with fish. So, they were finding the glyphosate in fish. So, people are eating I would say, fish in their diet and they're getting glyphosate through that process which is disrupting the microbial structure in the intestinal tract. So, it's a much more serious condition than people and initially thought of and it's also proliferating into other food options.

Ben:  Okay, so, what I'm asking though is if we didn't have leaky gut and there wasn't any glyphosate could we just eat bread and have it not be an issue? This also relates to the fact that, as I'm sure you've heard, a lot of people say I went to Europe, on a vacation, had a pizza in Rome or I had some pasta somewhere in France and I didn't have the same issues as the US.

Wade:  It's a good question and I know what's interesting if you go back in the research in 1900, the US Congress was concerned about the degradation of protein content inside a wheat and what was interesting after World War 2, we went into monoculture farming. We started using a lot of different chemical agents and stuff so I think one of the issues is protein degradation in food, the use of monoculture, the expansion of–or the diminishment of the nutrient quality of food. So, if you look at are you are you eating crema, a Mennonite farm food versus something that's come from your Monsanto's seeds that are being proliferated. So, I think to answer your question shortly, maybe the reality of that though I think is very difficult for people in the modern world.

Matt:  But what I was saying earlier about the wheat germ, a glutenin, is that it does seem to create a leaky gut in of itself, which is again, different than gluten. So, I think the answer is always, it's a combination. You know, of course, we want to as scientists, we want to isolate things. We want to isolate variables and we want very clear culprits but in the real world, we always know it's a synergistic combination of everything. So, the wise Ben Greenfield sub 7% body fat, it’s not one thing. It’s the exercise, the cold exposure, the keto, the intermittent fasting, the supplement, all the other lifestyle things you do.

Ben:  My parents.

Matt:  Right, genetics. So, again, I think it's the same thing with help problems and in this case, gluten means most likely, it's a destructive synergistic combination of leaky gut, glyphosates and a lack of DP-4 which we're going to talk about today.

Ben:  Yes, I want to talk about DPP-4 but I mean, I'm surprised that neither of you guys have brought this up but there is this idea of course, that all plants have a natural built-in defense mechanism and that that must be rendered inactive in order for us to be able to digest the plant. This is why you rinse the [00:17:26] _______ off of quinoa. You don’t just buy quinoa from Costco and go cook it which a lot of people do then, complain they've got a quinoa in their crap and they didn't digest and their body just must be allergic to quinoa. You have to actually soak and rinse the quinoa. You could say the same thing for rinsing brown rice or you could say the same thing for like sprouting or at least soaking lentils. They don't give you horrible gas. I mean, in my opinion, I think that to a certain extent it comes down to how the food is actually prepared as well. Like I eat sourdough bread, for example, and I can't get sourdough bread or I'm out of a restaurant which is when I actually use quite frequent this DPP-4 stuff that we're going to talk about but I’ll eat my wife's sourdough bread that's been soaked, and been sprouted, and fermented and a lot of the gluten has been pre-digested and the glycemic index gets lower when you eat that bread so I think part of it comes down to the actual food preparation methods, does it not?

Matt:  Absolutely, in a perfect world, you'd be eating pre-digested food exclusively but when you can't, which is most of the time, that's where enzymes come in because enzyme that will help break that down. So, that's the thing I mean, a perfect world you'd be using probiotics and enzymes that literally break down the food before you eat it and we talked about this in our last podcast about using even enzymes in your shake and drinking it while you work out which has been shown to improve results from a workout significantly. So, yes, the pre-digested foods, the ultimate really is.

Ben:  Yes, that’s part of the research and I'm sure that you as a vegan bodybuilder looked into this way that idea that if you consume digestive enzymes and you take a plant-based protein like a ham for rice or a pea there's actually research that shows that the protein that becomes as bioavailable as what you get from like a whey or an egg protein.

Wade:  Well, that's exactly what was the original design of why it was so interested in enzymes and particularly, proteolytic enzymes are both being on a plant-based diet because there was not even any hardly any plant proteins back and when I started that. One of the reasons we cultivate it develop that product Masszymes is particularly to break down so I could get the amino acids out of the food that I was eating because I was eating such a low-protein diet with a high-protein requirement because of the sport I was in so that's kind of started it. And then, that cascaded into all these other applications that enzymes have and we haven't looked back ever since.

Ben:  Okay, before we get into how these enzymes actually work and what happens when you consume an enzyme along with something like bread, I wanted to ask you guys about actual testing for gluten and whether or not you recommend any type of test to see whether or not you have some kind of reactivity to wheat. And also, whether or not you have any type of issue with cross-reactivity if either of you guys wants to speak to cross-reactivity.

Wade:  Yes, so if you want to get your we’ll probably put a link to this but basically, you want what's called an anti-tissue transglutaminase antibody, TTG and TTGA or endomysial antibody EMADGPARR total IGA. So, that's the testing. You’re going to have to have someone who understands that but of course, one of the panels that I think is great is that is a Cyrex panel to summarize that. You can look that up for gluten sensitivity.

Ben:  What you just described is the Cyrex panel, that’s the way that they use.

Wade:  Some people like to go depth though. They want to know all.

Ben:  They have their Array 4 which is the one called Gluten-Associated Cross-Reactive Foods and Food Sensitivity and that's one where you could find out whether or not, for example, cow’s milk or caffeine, I know coffee is a big one, they do potato, they do sesame, they do quinoa. You can find out if any of these foods, if consumed along with gluten, wind up making you even more susceptible to how gluten could deleteriously affect your digestive track. That's how these are working.

Wade:  Correct. And also, they're also testing to see what one of the things they're looking at is gliadin and peptide antibodies. So, gliadin is in the kind of the big culprit in gluten that creates a lot of problems and then, your body starts producing antibodies and that's what starts trickling these anti-mean responses in the body that can be leading to leaky gut and all this other stuff that goes on. Pretty literally breaking down your system and that's what they're testing for as well.

Ben:  I mean, you guys mentioned wheat germ in glutenin and gluten but they test for, I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff alpha gliadin and gamma gliadin and they look at microbial transglutaminase. They've got a whole host of things that they look at on those panels so they get pretty in-depth in terms of being able to tell you whether or not you are truly sensitive to gluten or maybe you're not even sensitive to it but it's more like glyphosate, it's leaky gut. It's the fact that you're consuming sources of gluten that haven't been properly soaked or sprouted or fermented, et cetera.

Wade:  Exactly.

Ben:  Okay, so, what I'll do is and by the way, for those of you listening in, that's Array. If you got a Cyrex, they call them arrays, A-R-R-A-Y, arrays. And that’s Array 3X and Array 4. They one they recommend is Array 10 which is like they test you for all sorts of different food immune reactivities. But, if you really want to dial in gluten and just know beyond a shadow of a doubt what things you might be allergic to when it comes to bread or gluten or things that you consumed along with those would make them more reactive and you would want that Array 3X and Array 4. I think those are the two. So, I’ll link to those. Their blood tests, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but a doc has to order those, don't they?

Matt:  Probably in the States, yes. Well, the fun things [0:23:22] _____ which I don't.

Ben:  Yes, but in Canada, are you guys able to just order from the website?

Matt:  I mean, I would in Panama, so you can just pretty much do whatever you want all the time.

Ben:  Yes, I had forgotten you’re in Panama but aren’t you open in Canada, Wade?

Wade:  Not at the moment, no but most of your test still need to be ordered by a doctor in Canada, as well.

Ben:  Okay, got you. Where do you live, Wade?

Wade:  Well, that's a great question. Right now, I'm hanging out in Santa Monica.

Ben:  Alright, you're kind of nomadic or?

Wade:  Deeply nomadic.

Ben:  That's right, you have a book called, “The Wealthy Backpacker.”

Wade:  Correct.

Ben:  Well, we all went down that rabbit hole. But the last time, oh go ahead, Matt.

Matt:  So, how can gluten negatively affect the brain? Well, first, gluten can inflame the brain by causing an autoimmune response. Autoimmune is of normal response to the body's own tissues. In other words, something comes into the body and the body goes on alert but somehow, mistakes its own tissues as a foreign invader and declares war mistakenly upon itself. So, allergies are a great example of that. In this case, antibodies meant to fight gluten will also attack your body. Second, during the digestive process, gluten can be broken down to strange proteins that are a lot like psychedelic drugs. These opium-like proteins called gliadorphins also known as gluteomorphin. As you probably imagine, these can drastically change brain function and behavior and I think that's one of the reasons people get so hooked on pasta, for example. I mean, people [0:24:52] ______. And, the third way is by really overloading the brain with glutamate which people are familiar with MSG knows what it does. That accelerates, activates, irritates, damages brain cells when you've got too much of them. So, the excessivity is also a link to psychiatric disorders because glutamates might excite our toxins. So, those are the big issues. And, the real big issue, too, I know a lot of people say, “Well, I don't have any gluten in my house.” You know, my wife is celiac but you know she's scared to go to almost any restaurant. She used to be scared before Gluten Guardian came out but the problem is unless the restaurant is like a hardcore raw food place that has no gluten in the kitchen at all, it's almost impossible because to avoid it, because the whole kitchen is contaminated. So, those are the real issues besides just the bloating and all the other things that people are familiar with.

Ben:  Yes, those opioids that you’ve talked about, they're not only found in gluten but they're also found in dairy. You'll find a lot of people when they go on a gluten-free diet or a casein-free diet, I actually want to talk about casein, casein pre-digestion, as well, and they experience withdrawal symptoms and a lot of times they think it's like keto flu or they went low-carb or there's something else in the diet causing issues and in fact, you can be addicted to it. It can be a coming off coffee but almost more profound in terms of noticeable symptoms simply because the opioids in a lot of these foods if you do go gluten-free cold turkey because gluten has almost like this morphine-like addictive property to a gluten and casein in dairy.

Wade:  Yes, I used to be a big casein fan. It was one of my first years when I started moving into more plant-based diet and, of course, that was the tradition in Ayurvedic, we’d use casein and then, I ran into a whole lot of trouble down the road with that. What's interesting is the China study talked about I believe it was that high levels of casein and anything that was around 10%, they noticed an increase in tumor growths for people who had a 10% casein diet and it fell below if it was below 5%. All of that related to the A1 inflammatory proteins. So, I think that you know that, again, there's that going back to compound factors that are causing inflammation in the body, the silent killer that you don't necessarily feel initially but later on it cultivates into other issues. I mean, the average person who gets diagnosis celiac or are gluten intolerance, for example, is between the ages of 40 and 65 because basically, they've had symptoms that they didn't necessarily realize what it was abdominal pain, headaches, anemia, joint pain, muscle pain, brain fog, all these different things, psoriasis, depression, these can all be caused by the inability to process these inflammatory proteins including gluten also and in casein.

Ben:  Yes, that's something that I don't talk about a lot in the show but it is that A1 versus A2 issue the beta-casomorphin in A1 milk, that's the one that's at the opioid-like peptide that causes almost like that addictive withdrawal property when you consume A1 milk. And also, there are a lot of other issues, you get increased risk of diabetes, increased risk of heart disease, they’ve linked it to sudden infant death syndrome and autism. There's a lot of issues with drinking A1 cow's milk but the majority, the lion's share of the milk in the US actually is A1 milk unless you specifically go out and you can you can Google A2 milk like there's one company in the US called a2 Milk company. You can avoid milk period, unless it's like cheeses from Europe and things like that or you can use goat milk or camel milk or I know one that's kind of up and coming right now as far as being healthy for the body is like water buffalo milk and I don't know whose milk in the water buffalos or where all those water buffaloes are kept. But, ultimately, yes that's a that's a big issue as well, completely separate from gluten but you know that I think people need to be aware that a lot of these enzymatic issues that we talk about in the use of enzymes can at least control the susceptibility to some of the opioid-like properties of these.

Matt:  And this is just to highlight the glyphosate issue, too because maybe some people listening aren't aware they're the ones used by the great evil empire, Monsanto, who’ve been bought out by Bayer and the issue is what it does is it basically damages the tussle tract. And, Wade, you want to go on a rant on Monsanto because anybody who's clued in I mean, they could be, potentially, the most evil company in the world, in my opinion, a lot of people's opinions and I think Wade’s got a good rant cued up here.

Wade:  Well, you know, not to go too crazy but the bottom line is I always feel when there's smoke there's fire and during the last administration in the United States, they were written into protection against lawsuits from The Constitution. Now, the first company in history to have that put forth and, of course, a lot of the former chief executive officers were actually working as advisors in the previous administration in the United States and so that's always a big question mark, and the other thing is, it's pretty demonstrable evidence to the level of damage that does inside the intestinal tract and so the question is, why is the is this company being protected? Why is this product being all over there? And why are we seeing a correlation with all these increased digestive-related illnesses with the massive use of this product? And then, suddenly this company has now been bought by a large pharmaceutical enterprise in Germany. And so, I think it raises a lot of questions that people need to be educated about and I'm grateful to be on your podcast the kind of share some of these things. You know, when you start tracking these things down, it just makes it why you need to pay attention to what you're doing, what you're eating, and our food has essentially been mutated and not to our advantage in all cases.

Matt:  And just to highlight how evil these guys are, in India there were farmers that they didn’t want to use their seeds. So, what they did, they built some farms near these farmers then, of course, with the wind, there’s cross-contamination and they sued them because they have patented seeds. So, they destroyed these farmers’ livelihood. I mean, we could keep going on and on which I know is not the point of the podcast today but I think it's good to bring awareness to this problem.

Ben:  Hey, I want to interrupt today's show to get all ketogenic on you. I know it's a kind of a catch phrase these days, ketogenic but there's this website where you can actually access some of the most potent ketogenic superfoods that exist. They've got grass-fed the Chipotle, organic pecan halves, organic virgin coconut oil, of course, but also organic extra virgin olive oil which in my opinion is just as important as coconut oil any time you're eating a high-fat diet and they've got things like apple cider vinegar, and coconut aminos, and cacao powder and things that help to step up the flavor of the ketogenic diet so you are not just like gnawing on a stick of butter all day. So, this website that has all of these actually has search functions that allow you to not only search and narrow down your search using filters for ketogenic, but also paleo, gluten-free, vegan, kosher, you name it and it's all non-GMO, sustainably farmed, Fair Trade Certified, BPA-free, all of that with one click of a button. This is all you will find at Thrive Market which is this online marketplace that makes healthy living easy and affordable. A bunch of their stuff, you can't find on Amazon, over 70% of their stuff you can’t find on Amazon. And it's always at 25% to 50% below traditional retail prices so it's way more affordable to go into the fancy overpriced health food store to get this stuff. Now, the cool thing is you also get 25% off of your first order when you go to Thrive Market. Very simple, you just go to thrivemarket.com/Ben. That's thrivemarket.com/Ben, and you can go and do that, the organic search that I mention or anything else. They have a host of incredibly flavorful foods. May I recommend you also try the coconut meat cereal which is quite amazing. It allows you to have cereal in the morning just like you used to when you were a kid but without the diabetes. So, check it out, thrivemarket.com/ben.

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Ben:  Yes, it is scary since Monsanto has a hand in pretty much every major subsidize food, at least in Canada in the US like corn and soy, so if a farmer wants to get a break on the cost of food production, they're likely going to have to receive those savings on Monsanto brand product because they have such a dominant position, at least in North American agriculture. So, it's a shitty scenario for a lot of farmers.

Wade:  And, for the population. Because at the end of the day, how this product works, if you look at glyphosates, what they actually do is they interrupt the enzymatic function of all these various bugs that they're supposedly trying to protect people from. The question I always ask is, “Well, how much of this stuff do I actually have to consume before it disrupts the enzymatic function in my body and damages the microbiome inside my body?” and the evidence is mounting up to, say, “Not that much?”

Ben:  Really. So, that's actually how glyphosates work. It's actually targeting enzymes and then potentially inhibiting your own enzyme production or damaging your own enzymes upon consumption.

Wade:  Correct. There’re over 25,000 different enzymatic functions inside the body. We don't know what the cascading effects are, but one thing that we do know is people are getting fatter, people are having more depression, and there's a lot more dysfunction relative to digestion in the population. So, again, we can't say it's a cause, but certainly, I believe it's correlative.

Ben:  Alright. I want to get back to the six to 10,000 calorie a day that Matt is embarking upon and this idea of pre-digesting it. So, last time we were together, Matt, you told me you had this stuff that you could sprinkle on bread and you could actually watch the bread digest when you sprinkle this stuff on bread. So, get into the science of what exactly you were using and how an enzyme, the predigested gluten is actually working.

Matt:  The enzyme where we've been alluding to the entire podcast called dipeptidyl peptidase 4. It's a proteolytic enzyme which means it helps break down protein which is what gluten is.

Wade:  You can just abbreviate that DPP-4 if you want, right?

Matt:  Correct, yes. So, just use DPP-4. It's a really simple experiment. I took two big pieces of bread put them in a bowl with water sprinkled a few capsules of Gluten Guardian which has a DPP-4 in it, and it dissolved the bread in 15 minutes. People can go to the link which been a link and you can see the experiment for yourself.

Ben:  You have a video of it?

Matt:  Yes, I did a time lapse video of it.

Ben:  I see.

Matt:  Yes, it's awesome. Basically, the way it works, it weans the protein. The DPP-4 is a pretty good enzyme that will break it down. We also combined four other proteolytic enzymes which help break down other types of proteins. Because, again, the reason is most people eat protein with the gluten. For example, if you eat a hamburger or a pizza, it's not just gluten, right? It's bread, meat, and stuff. So, use a variety of proteins that work at different pH levels because the pH levels change several times as it passes through the intestinal tract starting in your stomach. And there are acid buffers and then it changes again the small intestine and large intestine. Then, we have also three types of amylase which helps break down the carbs. So, you get glucoamylase which is an important digestive enzyme because it helps absorb nutrients and creates energy from some of the common plant glucose that we eat. It does this by breaking down the starch that occurs in a lot of vegetables. So, this starch presented in high amounts and comes with the potato, corn, rice, et cetera, and also it adds as a filler in processing a lot of different prepared foods. Then, the way the glucoamylase works where it craves and breaks off the glucose molecule at the end of the starch polysaccharide molecules and it basically breaks it down so you can use it. And it digests the starches in. Then, from there, we also have another enzyme called bacterial amylase, an amylase which helps break down the starches and carbs, again, at various pH levels. So, that's the formulation and that's how it works.

Ben:  So, when you do something like this, is this something that you actually break open and sprinkle on your food? Do you take this before you eat, after you eat? How does it work?

Matt:  I just take it while I eat. So, before I eat it, just grab the food. Because if you sprinkle your bread with it like I just described in water, it's not going to be a very good culinary experience, because this becomes mush.

Wade:  Your sandwich is going to turn into a soup.

Matt:  Exactly.

Ben:  Actually, I have a bottle. Both my kids have a bottle too for when they go to birthday parties or when they're at school and then if they have any gluten. I just give them a bottle. I bought them both a fanny pack and sometimes put it in their fanny pack or in their backpack, but they have a bottle and they use it when they're doing their foodie thing or when they're at a birthday party. But, what I wanted to ask you when it comes to this pre-digestion is, it's one thing to pre-digest but do you actually see a reduction symptom or has this been studied when it comes to alleviating symptoms? I mean, is it breaking it down to the point where there are people with gluten reactivity issues who actually aren't feeling that?

Matt:  Well, it becomes a matter of dosage. So, if you're a celiac and you're eating a 12-inch pizza, you're going to need a pretty high amount. So, I take, because I've done some tests with my wife. We went to a wedding at Saturday night. We came to eat some gluten which she really does, and we came back and she had some, I think, some Gluten Guardian and she felt good.

Ben:  She took it after?

Matt:  Yes, because I didn't bring it. That was a loser move on my part. So, we took it the next day and she felt a lot better. So, it does alleviate. But ideally, you take in it with the food. Because the capsules, they're going to open up the intestinal tract, break it down as it gets digested.

Ben:  So, when you're using this, it sounds like you've got enough in there to where you wouldn't actually need to take separate bitters or a separate digestive enzyme?

Matt:  Depends on what you're eating. I mean, if you're eating a lot of meats — I mean, when I'm keto, I don't use Gluten Guardian. I mean, unless I was eating gluten with it but that's when I use Masszymes which we talked about a lot in our first podcast.

Ben:  Masszymes is the one that's high in protease for breaking on proteins like steak, right?

Matt:  Correct. We're actually working on a keto-based enzyme which is going to come out next year. So, we'll come back and talk about that. Ideally, our goal is to be the digestive company, create different solutions for different types of meals and different types of diets. Really, when you're eating gluten, Gluten Guardian is your friend.

Ben:  So, if you're at a steakhouse and they're bringing out bread with the steak, and I actually like that. When I'm out at a steakhouse, I like to have a big old chunk of the bread that they bring out and I'll sprinkle salt on it usually like a good butter. I enjoy that at a steakhouse with my pre-steak cocktail. I have my steak and a glass of wine. My go-to is I'll have a wedge salad and I order the orthorexic out there, just took a sharp intake of breath because I'm getting blue cheese in bacon and God knows what else on the wedge salad. Then, I have a steak and I have a glass of wine with the steak. I always ask for organic biodynamic wine and look for grass-fed, grass-finished steak. I actually do pay attention to the ingredients on the wedge salad and often ask for the dressing on the side, because usually, they use too much, et cetera. But typically, I'll do a Moscow mule or some bitter-rich, digest [0:43:11] ______ rich cocktail and the salad. Then, I'll have a couple slices of bread with the salt and butter. Then, I'll order whatever cut of steak I want with a good glass of organic biodynamic wine. But what I could do is take the something like Gluten Guardian right when I get there before all the appetizers and bread and everything come out. Then, I could take something like the Masszymes right before the steak comes out.

Matt:  That's what I would do. That's what I do. When I have those types of meals, I'll have three to five capsules of Gluten Guardian and about five capsules of Masszymes. By the way, you're not going to be happy to hear this, but again, it's just another reason to take DPP-4, a lot of the stuff that you eat including wine and blueberries, just basically all the berries, polyphenols, have been found to inhibit DPP-4. So, when you do take or drink those stuff, we take a few Gluten Guardians with it.

Ben:  Really? And it's not something like a chemical that's added to the wine or the polyphenols. You're simply saying polyphenols inhibit DPP-4 activity?

Matt:  Correct. We'll have a link in the shownotes so you can see the study on that.

Ben:  I wonder why nature would have had that kind of built-in mechanism, that seems odd.

Matt:  It's a good question. It does DPP-4 inhibitors. Some diabetics use it, and Wade can maybe get into this, but it has to go a little bit with the insulin. Wade, do you want to get into it?

Wade:  Yes. DPP-4 can break down various hormones inside the body, particularly, things like insulin or something, which has a short half-life. So, that's where it can interrupt some of that function for various people.

Ben:  So, when it comes to the wheat germ and glutenin and some of the other things we talked about like the alpha trypsin inhibitors, does this have any type of effect on things other than gluten that would be found in gluten-containing foods?

Matt:  Yes. It helps break those down as well as breakdown casein which we talked about earlier. That's what's awesome. Again, not just when you're taking gluten but as we have talked about with the casein, when you are having any type of, especially, again, the A-1, but any type of the milk proteins, definitely take some DPP-4 with it.

Ben:  What about milk sugars like lactose?

Matt:  Well, they need lactase which is a different enzyme.

Ben:  Is lactase in there at all?

Matt:  No.

Wade:  We have that at the Masszymes. But I will add one piece to this. If you're on a plant-based diet or you have a lot of plants in your diet, probably, adding this would make a lot of sense because the chances that you're consuming glyphosates are pretty high. So, you need to have some mechanism to break that down. I think it's a good insurance policy if you're experiencing digestive-related illnesses. What I found is a lot of people just mix and match until they find their right combination.

Ben:  Got it. So, basically, when it comes to glyphosates, you're saying that glyphosate inhibits, like you mentioned earlier, DPP-4, so even if you're consuming a plant and not necessarily eating bread, if you were to take something like Gluten Guardian before you're eating, let's say a salad, and you didn't know if a salad was herbicide and pesticide-free you consume that and it would not make as big an impact on downgrading your DPP levels.

Wade:  Yes, exactly. We have a lot of testimonials of people that are anecdotally confirming that people that were suffering for years didn't have any way to get out of that. They had this in and all of a sudden, the symptoms go away. So, that's always a great indicator in the real world, as I like to call it. Because sometimes we can get all lost in stuff that don't work.

Ben:  What were you talking about with keto enzymes?

Matt:  It's a new formulation we've been working on. It's really going to be designed for people on keto. It's a variety of white pieces and a bunch of other co-factors that will help really people not just break down the fat but utilize it. It should really boost mitochondrial energy coming from fats. So, we're really excited. It should be coming out. [0:47:27] ______, by the way–yes, go ahead.

Ben:  I was going to say that's a good idea because a lot of people they'll start on MCT oil or coconut oil or putting butter in their coffee, for example, and they want to put digestive distress or big fatty floating stool, and it's because they're not actually breaking down the fats properly. I think a lot of people don't realize our actual enzymes that can break down fat.

Matt:  Correct. Basically, they're not producing enough lipase. Our friend, Garry Lineham, tested all of our products and he loved Gluten Guardian. He's not a gluten eater, but for him, he found that that had the biggest impact, back in the anecdotal stories. That's Garry Lineham, the Human Garage.

Ben:  Oh, yes, Gary, from Human Garage. I drew a blank there for a second. So, Gary is using this stuff as well, huh?

Matt:  Yes, he loves it.

Ben:  Alright. Got it. So, you said you take three to five of the Gluten Guardian capsules but then you'll add in the Masszymes. Then, if you were going to eat a high-fat meal, eventually once you have this lipase digestive enzyme you'd add that in as well.

Matt:  Correct. So, the idea is to have, basically, again, the right solutions for the right meals. So, if you're eating a lot of steaks, a lot of pure protein, then Masszymes. If you're eating a lot of fat, then this new support products could be the solution. When you're eating carbs, Gluten Guardian is your friend.

Ben:  Got it. Cool. Now, what about kids? I've been giving this to my boys. Obviously, they're just taking two, three max. I usually take five or six just because I eat larger pieces of bread than they do and I'm a big old boy. But how about for kids, is this okay for them to take?

Matt:  Yes. Sure. No problem.

Ben:  I asked after I feed it to my kids.

Matt:  Yes, I like it.

Ben:  I want to ask you, guys, too, about your own diet because I'm sure that people are curious. I mean, you alluded just a little bit to the fact they have this massive almost like cheat day on a Sunday, Matt. And then, you've got this one meal a day on the other days. But that one meal a day is it pretty hefty? What's that one meal look like?

Matt:  No. It's probably about 1,500 to 1,800 calories pure keto revised, primarily revised lamb, ground lamb, eggs and bacon. So, basically, it's a keto meal. Yes, basically, I'm a calorie deficit and I'll fast all day Saturday. So, I eat for five days and then spike on Sunday. So, my average calorie intake ends up being around 2,000 to 2,300 a week. My goal is just to keep recompositioning my body. I've got goals and I should be there in the next two years.

Ben:  Interesting. What kind of weight training are you doing to actually put on that amount of mass when you're eating that meal plan scenario?

Matt:  Just cheating all the time but I just lift three days a week right now, and it works very well. I do find that with the one meal a day, my recovery is not as good as it was eating more frequently. So, I've trained as much as five days a week, but right now it's just three very challenging hard weight-lifting workouts.

Ben:  Like full-body, high-rep, low-weight, high-weight, low-rep. What's it look like?

Matt:  Well, I'll tell you what I'm doing right now. It's a push-pull split. So, I just trained right before our call. Today was push day, so I was bench, squats, barbell press, close grip bench, ball bearing spoke squats, flies, triceps pushdowns and inside laterals. So, that's push day. Then, there's a pull day. So, pull day will be deadlifts, barbell rows, pull ups, barbell curls, and then some other moves. So, it's either push, pull, alternate push, pull, push, pull.

Ben:  So, that's four training sessions a week?

Matt:  No, I do three. So, basically, it alternates each week. I got eight workouts routine.

Ben:  I see. So, over the course of a two-week time span, you're hitting an even number of push and pulls?

Matt:  Correct. Then, Wade, what are you doing right now? You're doing a five-day body parts split?

Wade:  Yes, I do a five day a week body parts split and I also add in three high-intensity sprint sessions for about 15 minutes which is there's a little warm up and then there are the little ends at the end. That's my routine.

Ben:  You're still bodybuilding, right?

Wade:  Well, certainly not on a competitive level. I'd say I'm competing against father time like all of us.

Ben:  And, your meals, because you're not eating any meat, how does your meal day look? Are you doing the one a day also?

Wade:  No. I experiment for periods of time. For me, I do better on a window of about six hours. I've done it both ways. I've done it eating later in the day and I've done it eating earlier in the day. And, right now, I find that eating earlier in the day. Basically, after a workout is when I start eating. Then, I'll eat for about six hours. So, right now, I train early in the morning, around 6:00 A.M. Then, my first meal will be 8:00 and I'll be done eating at 2:00. And I'll stay in a fasted state at 2:00. Then, one day a week I take in no calories for about, actually, works out to about 36 hours that I go into a fasted state. I'm only consuming about 2,000 calories a day, but the goal here is reduction of body fat and body weight. That's what I'm on right now.

Ben:  I'm blown away by the number of people who I talk to who are smart and savvy people in the industry who are fasting or have some element of fasting now on a regular basis. I mean, I'm doing a lot of it, too.

Matt:  I got to give Wade some credit because Wade, we were talking about fasting a long time ago and Wade was doing fasting 15 years ago, Wade?

Wade:  Yes, I started that way back in–I guess it was 15. Fifteen years ago, I started using it. I had read a lot of science-related stuff from Indian culture which has been quite common and experiment it with myself. I just always thought it was a great advent adjunct to training and nutrition.

Ben:  Yes. Ayurvedic medicines have a rich history of fasting like mood for fasting and detoxification protocols. There's such a great number of books out there on it. One very simple one for the people to just start with it's called, “Change Your Day, Change Your Life.” I'll link to that in the show notes. bengreenfieldfitness.com/glutenpodcast. But that's a really good one just to begin to wrap your head around some of these timing and Ayurvedic principles when it comes to scheduling your diet and your exercise sessions.

One of the questions that I had for you guys regarding the supplement piece was, I know that by optimizers you have this thing called HCL betaine hydrochloric acid to increase stomach acid which, of course, is important for activating a lot of enzymes. But, when it comes to that, are you stacking HCL in at all with any of these compounds? I mean, how are you working out that in?

Matt:  Ideally, the perfect meal would be, again, the enzymes, the HCL, which you only need about two capsules. Then, P3-OM, which is also proteolytic, which will also help break down the meal. In every meal, you would have two capsules of HCL and maybe two or three capsules of P3-OM which is a proteolytic probiotic, and then the appropriate enzyme, whether it's Gluten Guardian or Masszymes or both, then go to bread and steak.

Ben:  Really, that's when I use the stuff a lot of the times when I'm at a restaurant. I have to admit when I'm at home, we have so many bitters and digestives and natural compounds. We're eating extremely clean and a lot of fermented pre-digested food, anyways. It's rare that I even use enzymes that much when I'm at home. But as soon as I travel, I mean, I've got. Right now, I've got the Gluten Guardian that I throw in my bag. I've been agnostic lately on digestive enzymes for other purposes, but whether it's Masszymes or throwing Thorne Bio-Gest in there sometimes. Sometimes, I've got some of the Onnit digestive capsules, I kind of vary all over the place. But you, guys, have like a suite, like a branded suite. I like that you're adding this keto one in too. So, you could basically have your enzyme for protein-rich meals, your enzyme for the bread, the gluten, and anything that has glyphosate on it. Then your enzyme for the keto. Then, if you need a little bit of extra digestive support for a large meal, then you would add in the HCL, right?

Matt:  Yes. I think HCL—I think once you past 35 years old, our stomach acids really take a nosedive. So, it's a very smart thing to do regardless. Of course, if you want to use HCL apple cider vinegar, it helps. I mean, that's what it is. Basically, it's an acid, the malic acid helps with doing the similar purpose. But if you don't take apple cider vinegar every meal or travel outside of vinegar, then the HCL Breakthrough is the answer.

Ben:  Got it. While I have you on it, I know that you guys have P3-OM which is that strain where you've got something like 2.5 billion CFU of Lactobacillus plantarum in those capsules for the immune system, but then, also, for the general health of the gut. Now, as far as that one goes, do you take that on an empty stomach at a different time of day or are you taking that at the same time as you take these enzymes?

Wade:  Yes. Well, the optimal time to take it, I feel, is before bed or first thing in the morning. And the reason being is it's not an implant strain or a colonizer. It's a transient strain which means that not only just goes into the intestine track but it goes through the whole body and just wipes out bad guys and breaks down undigested protein inside the system. That's what makes it relatively unique. You can add it in addition with your meals to augment the breakdown of foods. Particularly, if you're having a lot of digestive-related illnesses, we suggest that you go with the high dose [00:58:12] ______ products and then you start to wean yourself off after the symptoms that you're suffering from go away. So, they do work independently from each other, but they have a synergistic effect. And, a lot of our customers who have problems or significant digestive problems just have to reach out to our customer support team. Then, we'll help build out what you need to do and for how long until you're symptom-free.

Matt:  And to go on a tangent here, you're first when you should be or should everybody, in the world your Viome tests. I got my biome test and I'd talked to Naveen Jane. Actually, Wade, I talked to him last year. Basically, the colonizer myth of probiotics was it seems to be a myth, right? Because nobody, almost nobody, has any substantial amount of any of these strains. People have been taking yogurts and kombuchas and all these stuff. You're lucky if, in the Viome test, one or two show up. So, I think that the whole colonizer thing's going to be blown out of the water here as awareness. There was another study that I just saw three or four weeks ago I think out of the UK. It tested 55 different probiotics, nothing colonized. We were aware of transient strains, and we were aware that our strain what it really does. It goes and eliminates the bad guys. It's really like the Navy SEALS that come in and clean house. So, that's really what P3-OM does and, as Wade said, we take on an empty stomach it'll go in and get rid of the bad guys. It seems to have an incredible effect in those people that really have serious digestive issues that the P3-OM, by itself, completely fix.

Ben:  But it doesn't actually colonize, what you're saying?

Matt:  Correct. We've always known that about P3-OM inside of the body about three days

Ben:  Okay, Alright. Got it. But you're saying that that would be a good thing that it doesn't colonize?

Matt:  I'm saying that nothing colonizes. Almost nothing. I mean, as far as commercial probiotics go. I'm saying, I'm declaring that officially a myth.

Ben:  Got it. That's interesting. You think that at some point someone will figure out a way to deliver a probiotic in a method that actually allows it to colonize or maintain stability in the digestive tract and it doesn't seem like that would be that difficult a job to pull off.

Matt:  Well, one of the issues with probiotics, and our friend Rhonda Patrick talked about this recently, that if they're not fed what they need to be fed, they start dying off in 24 hours. Just like they need the right food constantly, which is I think a big part of the challenge. So, even if you do get them in there, are they going to have, I guess, the food they need to survive?

Ben:  Well, ultimately, I think the big takeaway here is that if you're eating plants, and this is something that I had no clue if they've been exposed to glyphosate, could down-regulate DPP-4 production like that. I'm sorry. It's DPP, not DDP, right? I think DDP is Diamond Dallas Page.

Matt:  Yes.

Ben:  Dipeptidyl peptidase. Basically, any plant-based meals that may have been exposed to Monsanto herbicides pesticides glyphosate any bread used to pop this stuff before and you're good to go.

Matt:  Correct.

Ben:  Cool. I should mention too, I'm not a fan of, and even my cheat days are probably different than yours, Matt, I just cheat on more of the good stuff. More of the grass-fed, grass-finished ribeye, sweet potato fries, and like good organic wine, and stuff like that. I don't necessarily go pizzas and twinkies and stuff like that myself. But, I do think there are a time and a place when you're at a restaurant they bring out that wonderful artisanal bread or you're out of the Italian and you want to get a side of pasta with your appetizer salad or situations where you're not using this. I don't want to encourage people to go out and just eat crap food, but at the same time when you find yourself in these situations even at parties where you want to try little appetizers and you don't know what's in. Even like last night, my wife made–we had a pumpkin carving party and she made a sweet potato, it's almost, I guess, a sweet potato pie but she spelt in the crust. For me, I'm really gluten-sensitive. So, for me, even for some spelt, I needed to take Gluten Guardian beforehand. So, there are some “healthy” foods that comes in handy for, as well.

Anyways, though, I'm droning on but what I do have for everybody listening in is a 10% discount. So, the 10% discount code is GREENFIELD. I'll link to Gluten Guardian or you can just go to glutenguardian.com/greenfield and they've already got a discounted price there but you knock another 10% off when you use code GREENFIELD at glutenguardian.com. When you go there, you probably heard us talking, of course, about P3-OM probiotic and Masszymes and some of these others. You can get all of those at that same website. Just find it. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the code GREENFIELD will work for any of that stuff on it?

Matt:  Yes, sir. We love Greenfield.

Ben:  Cool, I like it. Alright. So, all of that. I'll put over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/glutenpodcast. If you find Matt and Wade fascinating, go listen to the other episode where we talked about probiotic enemas. We take a pretty deep dive into some other digestive enzymes in addition to DPP that we talked about today, how Wade body builds on a vegan-based diet and a lot more. So, check all of that out as well. I'll link to that at bengreenfieldfitness.com/glutenpodcast. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this stuff with us. You're allowing a lot of people now to enjoy their Italian restaurants to the fullest.

Matt:  Yes. And if everybody wants to go and try the products, we got two guarantees: One is a 365-day unconditional money-back guarantee. And then, we've got a new thing that we started last year we haven't really talked about as much publicly, so I think it's the first time we do, we have a “We'll-fix-your-digestion guarantee.” So, a lot of times, people try our product because they disdiagnosed your problems and they might buy the wrong thing, so we're happy to chat with that person and actually send them another, one of our digestive solutions for zero costs and 95% of the time, we find that second solution fixes their problem, and if that doesn't work then we'll give them their money back. As far as we know, no one else is doing this. So, it's pretty well, pretty cool.

Ben:  That's a pretty good guarantee. I like it. Cool. Alright, 365-days satisfaction or your money back.

Matt:  And we'll-fix-your guarantee. We'll fix your digestion.

Ben:  I like it. Cool. Alright. Matt, Wade, thanks for coming on the show, guys.

Matt:  Thanks, Ben.

Wade:  Thanks, Ben.

Ben:  Folks, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Matt and Wade signing out now from bengreenfieldfitness.com. Have an amazing week.



I've been getting a lot of questions lately about the mysterious molecule I consume before I eat bread and pasta – a compound that allows me to digest gluten without any of the “bathroom decommissioning” that so notoriously occurs after a hefty bout of gluten consumption.

After all, I don't want to not eat bread or pasta for the rest of my life. I find them enjoyable.

But due to glyphosate exposure from pesticides and herbicides, stress, a leaky gut and other modern assailants that make gluten a bigger issue than it ever has been in human history, I use a bit of better living through science to make gluten digestible.

In today's podcast, I interview the inventors of Gluten Guardian – Matt Gallant and Wade Lightheart – the guys who first appeared in the podcast “Probiotic Enemas, Digestive Enzyme Myths, Breathing 10 Kilograms of Oxygen, Low-Protein Diets & More!” and later in my article “How To Take Digestive Enzymes“.

Matt Gallant is an entrepreneur, a poker champion, an ex-rock guitarist, a serial entrepreneur (who's built 13 companies in the last 20 years) strength and conditioning coach with a degree in kinesiology, the CEO and co-founder of a company called BiOptimizers.

Wade T. Lightheart, host of the AWESOME Health Podcast, 3-time All Natural National Bodybuilding Champion, advisor to the American Anti-Cancer Institute and Cofounder of BiOptimizers. He is also the author of several books including the best-selling books, “Staying Alive in a Toxic World” and “The Wealthy Backpacker.”

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-Why Matt eats between 6-10,000 calories every Sunday…7.36

  • For the calorie spike.
    • One meal per day for 6 days.
    • A combo of healthy and regular food.
    • Matt feels great afterwards.
    • He takes the day off from training.

-Why we should be cognizant of our gluten intake, even if we don't have celiac disease…10:30

  •  New England Journal of Medicine listed 55 diseases that can be caused by eating gluten.
  • Many times we're not aware of these diseases; can be immune, neurological and psychiatric.
  • Differences between wheat germ in the gluten and gluten itself.
    • Different type of protein.
    • Both are resistant to digestion.
    • Can make the gut more permeable. (Leaky gut)
  • Amylase/trypsin inhibitors come packaged with gluten – specifically wheat.
  • What about other factors to leaky gut such as stress and glyphosate.
    • 4x increase in celiac disease; traced to glyphosate interrupting the digestive process.
    • Will continue to increase due to the exposure to glyphosate.

 -The use of enzymes in the preparation of food to increase its palatability…18:10

  • In a perfect world, you'd be eating pre-digested food primarily.
  • You use enzymes to assist with breaking food down.

-Do Matt and Wade recommend any panels for evaluating gluten sensitivity or gluten cross-reactivity?…20:30

  • Anti-tissue transglutaminase or endomysial antibody.
  • Recommend Cyrex.
  • Helps you know if other foods such as coffee or quinoa are exacerbating your level of gluten intolerance.
  • Also testing gliad and peptide antibodies.

How does gluten negatively affect the brain?…24:00

  • Inflames the brain by causing an auto-immune response.
    • Antibodies intended to protect your body actually attack your body.
  • During the digestive process, gluten can be broken down into proteins similar to psychedelic drugs.
    • Has an addictive quality.
  • Overloads the brain with glutamate.
    • Irritates and damages brain cells.
  • Negative impact on your social life.

-What Wade REALLY thinks about Monsanto…29:50

  • They were written into protection against lawsuits by federal law during the previous administration.
  • Demonstrable evidence of their products causing damage to the body.
  • Has been bought out by Bayer.
  • Food has essentially been mutated, much to our detriment.
  • Destroy livelihoods of small farmers.

-The product Matt uses to pre-digest gluten before you even eat it…37:00

  • Dipeptidyl peptidase 4, also DPP-4.
  • Dissolves bread placed in water in 15 minutes (watch the video below)
  • You take it while you eat.
  • Does DPP-4 actually mitigate symptoms of gluten intolerance?
    • Depends on the dosage.
    • Can be taken as late as the day after eating.
  • Citrusy foods have been found to inhibit DPP-4
    • Breaks down various hormones in the body such as insulin.

-Does DPP-4 have any effect on foods not containing gluten?…45:00

  • Milk proteins, but not milk sugars like lactose.
  • Good idea to add DPP-4 if you have a plant-based diet.
  • Just mix and match until you find the right combination for you, and for the right meals.
  • Safe for children to ingest.

-More on Matt and Wade's diet and workout regimen…49:50

-How do HCL and hydrochloric acid work with Gluten Guardian?…54:55

  • Plays a supportive role
  • Stomach acid decreases after the age of 35
  • Simulates the effects of apple cider vinegar
  • P3-OM 
    • Optimal time to take is before bed or first thing in the morning, rather than meal time.

-Matt plays “myth busters” with colonizing properties of probiotics…58:41

-Special offer from Matt and Wade…1:04:15

  • Get 10% off your order of Gluten Guardian when you use code: GREENFIELD at www.glutenguardian.com
  • 365-day unconditional money-back guarantee
  • Brand new offer: “we'll fix your digestion guarantee”

Resource from this episode:

-Gluten Guardian – get 10% off already discounted price with code GREENFIELD


–Cyrex blood panel for gluten allergy

-Book: Grain Brain

-A1 vs. A2 milk

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