[Transcript] – How To Treat Cancer With Chinese Medicine: What Happened When Chinese Herbologist Roger Drummer Got An “Incurable” Cancer.

Affiliate Disclosure


Podcast from:  https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/supplements-podcasts/how-to-treat-cancer-with-chinese-medicine/

[00:00] Introduction

[00:59] DailyBurn/GainsWave

[04:48] About Roger Drummer

[07:59] How Roger Thought He Has Stage 3 Bladder Cancer Despite Being A Healthy Chinese Herbologist

[13:53] How Environment, Stress and Genetics Affect the Growth of Cancer

[19:58] How Roger Eliminated His Cancer in 5 Weeks with Meditation, Herbs and a Ketogenic Diet

[26:12] How Roger Utilized the Glucose-Ketone Index

[29:38] How Roger Used The Adaptogenic Formulas Tian Chi and Inner Peace in his Healing Program

[33:12] Roger’s Anti-Cancer Blend/Programs

[35:44] HealthIQ/Molekule

[39:50] A New Meditation Strategy Roger Used to Defeat his Cancer.  Includes Qi, Tantra, and Quantum Physics

[47:33] Roger’s Experience being in a “Blissed State” While Still Having Cancer

[55:10] Did Roger Use Biohacks for Mitochondria or Other Cancer Therapies Like Hyperbaric Oxygen Or Ozone Therapy?

[1:12:04] End of Podcast

Ben:  Hey, I’ve done it again.  My website if I don’t say so myself, at bengreenfieldfitness.com has a repository, I think that’s a word.  I think that word is not the same thing as suppository.  I think.  I could be wrong.  Repository of some of the most mind-blowing cancer-oriented podcasts that exists.  I’ve been fortunate and blessed enough to be able to tap the mind of people who have cured themselves of cancer using very unique methods and if you’re a PubMed researcher and you work for a pharmaceutical company, you probably want to jump to this podcast microphone and throttle me.  But I’m just saying, some of my cancer episodes are practical actionable advice that I send people to all the time when they ask me about what I would do if I had cancer and today is no different.  I’m talking with my friend Roger Drummer who cured himself of “incurable” prostate cancer.  So we’re going to talk with him.

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In this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:

“You know, because of my background in Chinese herbs and how I got involved with it I instantly felt that it was a spiritual issue.” “When I got on the internet to look up bladder cancer, the New York Times was running a special on this new immunotherapy they were using for bladder cancer and within six months all of them had cancer again somewhere else.  And I said to my wife, I said hon, I said who would’ve thought having cancer could be this much fun?”

Ben:  Hey folks, my guest on today’s show is Roger Drummer and Roger is not only a diplomate of Chinese Herbology but he holds patents on growing these different forms of biologically active what are called anthocyanin-rich medicinal mushrooms and he’s been doing this for 27 years literally formulating tonic herbs and nutritional programs all based on Chinese Herbology.  He’s also studied a ton of different healing modalities like chronic healing and Jin Shin Shitsu and Reiki and Jin Shin Do and Jiatsu and he happens to make also a couple of herbal supplements that you may have heard me talk about before one called TianChi one of the most potent little packets of Chinese herbs I’ve ever had in my life when it comes to like energy and then Inner Peace which is kind of similar but one that can be used for napping or sleeping.

He’s such an interesting guy and he’s actually been on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast three times.  We did an interview on how adaptogens work.  We did an interview on how to boost your brain power with herbology and we also did one on food labels in Chinese medicine kind of talk about a whole bunch of different things on that episode and I will if you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer I’ll link to all the previous episodes I did with Roger and it’s spelled drummer, d-r-u-m-m-e-r.  So go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer if you find Roger interesting like I do and you want to hear more of him.

Anyways though, so Roger and I email sometimes and our last email correspondence Roger told me that last summer he had Stage 3 bladder cancer and that required bladder and prostate removal along with cutting up the colon to make a new bladder bag and that’s a protocol that has I believe like a 20% survival rate and he was highlighting to me what he went through and also how he managed and eliminated his cancer with some different and very unique modalities that I thought would be fascinating to delve into on this show because he had a pretty significant amount of healing occur shocking amount of healing really confirmed in two different biopsies that I know he had done to make sure it was gone.  So this promises to be yet another one of our very interesting episodes on cancer.  So Roger, welcome to the show, man.        

Roger:  Hey, good to be here.

Ben:  Yeah, so last time we talked you’re churning out Chinese herbs in your mad scientist laboratory, you’re in Portland now, right?

Roger:  No, I’m in Henderson, Nevada.

Ben:  That’s right, Henderson, yeah.  For a while weren’t you in Oregon?

Roger:  No.

Ben:  Okay, I’ve no clue why I thought that, alright completely confused you with somebody else, apparently. So you’re down in Henderson and tell me about what happened.

Roger:  Well, you know I was giving a lecture on the phone on a Thursday night, it’s actually the weekend of Memorial Day.  And by the way, if you’re ever going to have a crisis never do it on the weekend of Memorial Day. [laughs]

Ben:  [Laughs]

Roger:  ‘Cause nobody is around.  So anyway, I got done with my phone call and went in to go to the bathroom and just urinated pure blood.

Ben:  Oh, my gosh.

Roger:  And I mean it didn’t look like it was tinted.  It just looked like I was bleeding and I was passing clots.

Ben:  Holy cow.

Roger:  And I really had no warning of anything other than being a couple of days before that getting extremely tired.  And so, once I saw the clotting and it spooked me so much that I started drinking a lot of water ‘cause I didn’t know exactly what was going on and I figured clots have better keep it moving.  So I ended up going home and I was up every 20 minutes bleeding and passing clots until the next morning when I made it into a medical center, they started a series of tests and they couldn’t even do a urinalysis ‘cause there’s too much blood in it.

Ben:  Holy cow!  Now for a guy by the way, and I don’t to my knowledge, ever remember having passed a clot but does the clot literally like come out of your urethra?

Roger:  Yes.

Ben:  That’s got to hurt?

Roger:  It actually didn’t hurt so much as it just felt weird. [Laughs] It was like you’re shooting something out of a gun.  I mean it’s just so strange of a feeling.  You could feel it coming and it moves all the away along and then shoots out into the bathroom, you know.

Ben:  Wow.

Roger:  It’s an odd feeling.

Ben:  Wow.  Okay, so you’re passing clots and you’re bleeding.

Roger:  So I make it to the medical center and now it’s three o’clock by the time I get the CAT scan done and the guy comes out and he goes, look he goes, I saw something in your system.  You’re going to have to get an appointment with a urologist.  And I said, is there someone I can see right now?  And he goes, right now he goes, “oh no, you’re going to have to wait ‘til Tuesday.”  I said, “Tuesday [laughs], look I’ve been bleeding, passing blood for almost 20 hours now.”  And the guy looks at me and he says, “oh, don’t worry you shouldn’t bleed out by Tuesday.”

Ben:  Oh, my gosh.

Roger:  [Laughs] And so, I mean that was the advice I got.  So he gave me an antibiotic which was a pretty potent one.

Ben:  Gave you an antibiotic and told you you’d have enough blood don’t worry you’re not going to die by Tuesday.

Roger:  Yeah, I shouldn’t die by Tuesday.  So I went home and I took it and it did work.  It stopped my bleeding about eight o’clock that night.  And then I had to sit around until Tuesday to go in and get a test and get some other tests done.  But that’s when I found out the guy says, “well, you have Stage 3 bladder cancer,” and he explained the whole thing to me.  And he basically told me Stage 3 in case people aren’t familiar with that is where the tumors have grown through the fatty layer around your bladder.  And so what makes it so terrible is that it’s right in the position to go all over your system ‘cause it’s made it through the walls down the fatty tissue and it could express itself all over your body at any moment.  And so he explained to me that there’s really only one treatment for that that is removing your bladder, your prostate and making a bag out of your intestines to urinate in.  And so, I’m looking at him and I mean, literally you’re in shock ‘cause it’s kind of hard to describe what the feeling is to be told you have cancer and to have one that’s so advanced where they’re going to take your body parts out, [laughs] and you’re going to pee in a bag the rest of your life.

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  And luckily for me, my doctor had actually had cancer himself before so he told me he goes, “right now I know you can’t think of anything. You heard the word cancer and you’ve gone brain dead.”  He goes, “so I want you to go home and think about what I’m telling you and we’ll schedule a surgery, right?”

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  So I did that.  I was in complete shock and we set up a surgery and luckily for me the first surgery was just to do what they call a resection where they call the tumors out and then set you up for the next big thing where they’re going to do all the reconstructive surgery.  And so I did that and he confirmed it was Stage 3 and you know, I got through that process and went home and pretty much when I first found out about it I didn’t know what to do and plus I was in shock from the stress of it.  And the other part of it where the thing is, how in the hell did it happen to me?  I’ve been eating an anti-cancer diet for 30 years.

Ben:  Yeah, I mean you’ve been super healthy and taking all these Chinese herbs.  That’s what I’m curious about.  Was this like genetics or [laughs] bad luck or do you have any idea?

Roger:  You know, I really thought as I got into the process and thinking about it and this is something I read in a book that Caroline Myss wrote and she has some great books on energy and healing and she basically said the mistake almost everybody makes is trying to completely figure out why you got a disease.

Ben:  Uhm.

Roger:  ‘Cause it’ll never happen.  You know, a lot of these things have much more to do with things than just what your brain can figure out so it’s better just to drop it and look for healing.  Look at how you could figure out how to get rid of it.  And so I still think that part of it was exposure to a lot of pesticides when I was 19 and 20 years old.  I remember when it happened.  I got a couple of toxic exposures when I was around 19.  I was working on some farms doing farm work then, and I remember thinking at that time, “god, I’ll probably get cancer from this.” [laughs]

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  And when I asked my doctor, he said basically, you could have been forming this for the last 40 years and it finally manifested and the fact that you ate so healthy in the last 30 years and you’ve been doing all this stuff, it probably just took it that long to develop.  We don’t know.  It could be related to the cigarettes you smoked when you were 19 or the pesticides.

Ben:  Uhm.  Yeah.

Roger:  He goes, but this is the only treatment.  You know, but I have to be honest with you when I was told that I had cancer the first thing that came to my mind besides the pesticides was that it was a spiritual issue.  I really thought I had messed up and there was something I was doing that was wrong that energetically allowed the environment for this to actually happen.

Ben:  I want to hear a little bit more about what you thought regarding that but I did want to comment regarding the pesticides that I’m aware of a few studies that have looked into pesticide exposure and the build-up of what are called, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this before beta-glucuronidase and those are significantly associated with bladder cancer.  And so I would certainly say that if you were exposed to pesticides and herbicides heavily well growing up or early on in the day it could certainly increase your risk from what I have seen just from a pure chemical standpoint.

Roger:  You do any research on bladder cancer and it’s really related to chemical exposure.

Ben:  Uhm.

Roger:  People who have worked for paint companies all these things that the amount of bladder cancer’s just off the charts.  So there is a part of that but because of my background in Chinese herbs and how I got involved with it, I instantly felt that it was a spiritual issue and it didn’t take me long to figure out what I thought it was related to and I needed to correct it.

Ben:  And what was that?

Roger:  That was not expressing myself creatively and having to do with and how that affects a certain shocker in your body which is related to your bladder.

Ben:  Are you talking about like not practicing enough Yin and being too Yang?

Roger:  No, I mean just having certain projects that I wanted to do for probably 15 to 20 years and just not doing it because there was a part of me that just was afraid of expressing myself that way and putting myself out there that way.

Ben:  Projects like what?

Roger:  Writing.  I had an amazing herb book which I’m now going to publish on Chinese herbs and the whole process by which I learned Chinese herbs because it almost reads like a fantasy tale but it was so completely like an altered reality to me the way that I learned Chinese Herbology and all the different experiences I had it’s almost something you’d read in some sort of science fiction fairytale but it was my real life.  And I got into Chinese herbs because I had a spiritual experience.  Most people get into Chinese medicine realized there’s a spiritual side.  I really just studied Chinese herbs because I had just mind-altering experiences that I couldn’t explain so I ended up being in an herb shop just to be in the environment to try and figure out what was happening to me.

Ben:  Okay.

Roger:  And that took me on the path to learning reiki and studying pranic healing and all these different healing modalities and massage, and all these stuff to learn about energetics and I honestly think I learn more about how Chinese herbs work from studying reiki, pranic healing, kundalini yoga, all these different modalities I got involved in.

Ben:  Interesting.  Okay, so the reason I asked you about the Yin and the Yang deficiency was because I did a podcast recently with Paul Chek who was a holistic health practitioner and he talked a lot with me about my own need to express Yin more and one of the things that he actually brought up, I believe was kidney health and how not expressing enough of like your Yin-creative almost more feminine side can be associated with Yin deficiency and Yang elevation and lead to like blood stagnation and kidney issues.

Roger:  Yeah, the kidney energy is all about sacral chakra bladder kidney reproductive system.  The other’s a part of that and expressing your creativity is more of a Yang thing but the whole process of building it up and energetic build-up of that and then the creation of it is all Yin and Yang activity and you know, I had chronic fatigue when I got into Chinese herbs so my kidneys were pretty much depleted of both Yin and Yang.  And so it kind of all leads back to that and it’s probably been building up for a long time.  But for me I had this book that I started writing and I just happen to have an incredible agent that I was dealing with who would publish five or six bestsellers and she read it and thought it was amazing and then I got turned down at the last stage by a book company and I threw it in the drawer and I never got it out for 15 years.

Ben:  Wow.

Roger:  And so it was really crazy but that just kind of fit in to that part of me that thinks that I just wasn’t good enough or new enough to put it out, you know what I mean?  And so I just kind of shut-off that creative channel that I had and just didn’t do anything about it.

Ben:  So what did you wind up doing at that point?  So had you actually had your surgery when you had figured that out?

Roger:  Well, I had my first biopsy where they scrape the tumors out and the guy wanted me to come back in 30 days to do another kind of pre-op so he could show me how bad did it grow back and then schedule the final surgery to do everything, right?

Ben:  Uhm.

Roger:  And so I put that off ‘cause I wanted a chance to do my own therapy and so I put it off until September 21st instead of doing it in the middle or beginning of August.  And so what I really did, I went home and I realized because it was a spiritual issue but I wasn’t going to ignore science in figuring out how to deal with it that way too but I wanted to combine all of it.  And so I started out the first thing I did before I even got a plan together was I started just juicing and I had this drink that came from Edgar Cayce.  Are you familiar with Edgar Cayce?

Ben:  No.

Roger:  Edgar Cayce is the psychic healer from around the 1900’s.  He was very famous in the United States and so I started drinking this juice.  You know, a lot of people will go, “well, geez you start taking the juice from some psychic healer from a hundred years ago what sense that make?” But if you look at it and you study all the research now on angiogenesis, you know, what foods are all anti-angiogenesis which is how a cancer tumor grows new blood pathways to feed itself? Well, everything in my juice from that guy actually fit into that program of angiogenesis. So it was designed to cut off the blood supply to the tumors but I really did not have much confidence in it even though I drank it for a month because I thought, why would that make a big difference for me?  I’ve been on a diet that’s basically like that or similar to it for 30 years.

So what big difference would that make for me and I didn’t have much confidence in it but the big turning point really in my whole therapy or what I was doing besides the fact that I was going to try and change my meditation and all those other stuff was surprisingly almost by accident, I just started taking Inner Peace. [laughs] The product I make.  I was so stressed out and I took five of them one day and it’s like my brain just flipped.  I got out of the dread and I got out of the feeling of just being helpless and I just started to get into researching stuff.  My brain just got out of fight or flight and I just started researching stuff and surprisingly which was really fascinating at that time, when I got on the internet to look up bladder cancer, the New York Times was running a special on this new immunotherapy they were using for bladder cancer.  Well, this new chemo immunotherapy and they had three people they were doing articles on that all had my exact disease and they all had their bladder and everything removed and within six months all of them had cancer again somewhere else.

And I was [laughs] like, “why would I want to go through that process if all these people have cancer again?”  And the one guy was saying how lucky he was to get this new immuno chemotherapy and how it was only going to cost you about $75,000 a year to do it and I’m thinking, I don’t know there’s something about this picture that doesn’t make sense to me and then they showed a picture of him and his doctor and they’re both sitting there drinking soda pop.  I’m thinking [laughs]…

Ben:  Huh?

Roger:  I’m thinking this just isn’t the path I’m going to go down, right?

Ben:  Right.  Mainlining angiogenic fructose into their bloodstream.

Roger:  [Laughs] Yeah, so once I started on the Inner Peace I started to just change the way I looked at things.  I really started looking into it.  You know, I didn’t have very many people that thought I could do anything about it.  In fact, I talked to a couple of doctor friends of mine because I thought they were in the alternatives and they would give me a different approach and both of them told me said, look just go have it done.  You don’t even want to know what’s going to happen to you if you don’t have your bladder removed and all that stuff done.  I was in shock from that, right?

So once I started doing some research and then the luckiest thing that happened to me is I have a friend named John who was on the ketogenic diet, and John had had a brain cancer five years before that that he was sent home and basically told within three to six months he has all about the time that he had and that he needed to get his affairs in order and they had done surgery on him and removed 65% of his tumor but you know, obviously they left 35% in his brain and he did chemo or radiation and they basically just sent him home.  So he discovered the ketogenic diet on the internet, went on it and three months later went back in for a scan and his tumor was gone.

Ben:  Yeah, we’ve talked about that in the show before about this metabolic approach to cancer and the idea that cancer can be a state in many cases in which the cells go in the state of lactic acid accumulation and net acidosis due to kind of like out of control glucose utilization and glycolysis and I believe it’s termed the Warburg Theory, I believe of cancer and this idea that as it’s outline really, really well in this book “Tripping Over the Truth” that what you do is you kind of like cut-off a lot of the glucose supply to cancer cells via like ketosis.

Roger:  And that’s exactly what it is and you know, John had had success.  In fact he told me the meter to buy and then he just sent me a packet of 30 or 40 strips of glucose strips and ketone strips and told me to order “Tripping Over the Truth” and I read it.  And you know, what it impressed with me is that this was something I could do that I could measure a response.  It wasn’t like juicing where I was just hoping something would happen but here’s a meter I could take and every day I could measure three or four times a day and know exactly where I was so it gave me a feeling that I was now controlling something.  And also I came to the realization right away that I’m not going to worry about the amount of nutrition I get into my system.  I’m not going to worry if I ate so many vegetables a day or whether they’re all anti-cancer or so whatever, but I’m going to just look at getting into what I call the zone where the glucose ketone index of one which is what most research the guy that wrote the book “Cancer as a Metabolic Disease” who does most of the medical research says you have to get into the state where your glucose is a certain number balanced by your ketones and that’s the glucose-ketone index or what they call the Number One.

Ben:  Okay and what does that number actually reflect?  The Number One?

Roger:  That number reflects if you take your glucose and you divide it by 18 to get the metric number because that’s the numbers they usually use.  So let’s say your glucose is 72, your glucose reading.  So you divide that by 18 and you get a four.  So you measure your ketones, you’ve got to have at least a level of four on your ketones to divide that into your other number and then you come out with a one.

Ben:  That makes sense.

Roger:  Yeah, and so that’s what it was and that’s [0:28:09.0] ______ going on every day and I didn’t have any problem with that within a day or so I was right in to ketosis because I’ve been on a high fat diet anyway and I’m not overweight so it was real easy for me to just flip over into it.  And so my ketones were anywhere from five to six and a half most of the time.  And I learned pretty easily how to keep my blood sugar around 72, 75 and then it was easy to be in that range whereas, you know when you read “Tripping Over the Truth” back in the 60’s when they try to do this with people they almost starved them to death.  They did 600 calories a day trying to get their sugar down to 60 so their body would naturally do it well.  Today we have so many more tools to do it.  MCT oil, all these different things you can take to naturally raise your ketones and so you could go into the zone much easier.

And I was still eating probably eighteen hundred calories at least a day you know, doing the Drakes, doing all the herb program I came up with and the MCT oil and eating two meals a day, and so I was right in that zone and not feeling bad at all.  I was intermittent fasting from 6pm until around 11 or 12 the next day every single day.  I never missed a time on it.  So I was doing it to the max, right?  And along with that, I got in and started doing research and found a whole slew of herbs that have all been shown to kill cancer stem cells.  And so I started researching beyond herbs and you know what, adaptogens are amazing for that, too.  I mean, ashwagandha is an amazing herb for anti-cancer killing stem cells.  So all these things are part of my Inner Peace but I was adding extra ashwagandha to it and I had a program of about 10 herbs that I was taking three times a day.  And I’m talking probably a hundred capsules of stuff a day.

Ben:  Wow.  And were you still taking that Inner Peace stuff, too?    

Roger:  Oh, yeah.

Ben:  Okay.  And by the way, for those people who aren’t familiar with Inner Peace just listen to some of the previous podcast I’ve done with Roger but correct me if I’m wrong Roger, the idea behind that it’s a blend of like mushroom-fruiting bodies and spores like reishi combined ashwagandha and a whole bunch of different Chinese adaptogenic herbs.

Roger:  Yeah, it’s the herb blend of TianChi by itself just for stress.  Lower your amount of cortisol, opening up your brain energetically to move out of fight or flight up into the frontal lobe where you’re all about creativity seeing the big picture that type of thing.  So I was taking that everyday along with the hundred and some pills of other program that I came up with.

Ben:  A hundred sounds like a lot.  You’re just swallowing those pills all at once?

Roger:  Oh, yeah.  It’s not a problem.  You dump about 30 or so up in your hand and drink with a glass of water and that’s about it.

Ben:  How’d you choose all these and were you concerned about I guess like interplay between each of the different like a hundred different things that you were taking?

Roger:  No, not at all.  I really wasn’t worried about it at all.  I have an unbelievable love of herbs and I often tell this to people and they all laugh at me but I have a personal relationship with herbs. [laughs] I don’t look at them as just being substances I buy, I think I’ve been an herbalist in many lifetimes and I have a relationship with plants and I totally believe if you take the right ones magical things will happen.

Ben:  Okay.

Roger:  And so I work at a program that was based on research from PubMed and from mostly from GreenMedInfo in fact, I went to GreenMedInfo, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that.

Ben:  Yeah, that’s Sayer Ji’s website, right?

Roger:  Yeah.

Ben:  That’s a really great website.

Roger:  Yeah, I punched in bladder cancer and they gave me 57 different reports on herbs and studies done on bladder cancer with herbs.  And so taking that information and then I had this other book called “Adaptogens in Medical Herbalism” by Donnie Yance, he is one of the few herbalists who specializes in cancer and he uses a lot of adaptogenic herbs and so I had that book and I had GreenMedInfo and I came up with a program of about 10 things.  And that I was going to take three times a day all designed to kill cancer stem cells, to also kill circulating tumor cells because you know, once you scrape your bladder out you have tumor cells that are released and floating around your system.  And so that’s basically the program I went on and then I just started changing my meditation.

Ben:  Now before we get into meditation, what were some of these things that you were taking ‘cause I know people are going to want to know.

Roger:  Oh, well mainly I was taking something called berberine.  I don’t know if you’re familiar with berberine?

Ben:  Oh, yeah that’s great also for blood sugar control.

Roger:  Oh, yeah.  That’s why it fits so perfectly doing my cancer program because taking it kills cancer stem cells and circulating tumor cells but it also helps regulate your sugar so it fits right into the ketogenic diet and the whole program.  So I was doing curcumin, green tea, resveratrol, genistein which is an isoflavone from soy, boswellia, oregano oil, milk thistle, R-Lipoic acid, NAC you know, N-Acetyl Cysteine.

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  A little bit of garlic and some quercetin and ashwagandha and basically that was the basis of my program, was that list of things.  All in different amounts and different forms.

Ben:  Those are about 10 things, but you’re taking a hundred things?

Roger:  No, a hundred caps a day.

Ben:  Oh, a hundred caps.  Okay, you said…

Roger: Not a hundred things.  No.

Ben:  So you said, ‘cause I’m actually writing these down for the show notes review.  You said berberine, curcumin, green tea extract, boswellia, milk thistle, N-acetyl cysteine, ashwagandha and there are a couple of others I may have missed.

Roger:  Resveratrol.

Ben:  Okay.

Roger:  And genistein which is an isoflavone from soy.

Ben:  Uhm.

Roger:  And I think you got R-Lipoic acid, quercetin.

Ben:  Yup.  Okay.

Roger:  And that’s basically it.  That was the meat of my program and the reason I had so many caps is like I love and have a great experience with phytosomes it’s a form of taking an active ingredient in an herb and mixing it with a fat.  And so I was doing a curcumin phytosome and a green tea phytosome.  In the curcumin phytosome I was probably taking 24 caps of just that one herb a day.

Ben:  Wow.

Roger:  And so the green tea I was taking six to ten depending on how I felt that day.  So that you know, is a lot of herb of one particular type but half of that cap or so or even more is lecithin that is bound with, so I’m taking a lot of caps at one time.

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Ben:  Now where were you sourcing these from?  Were you just kind of like ordering from Amazon or do you have special sources being an herbologist?                

Roger:  No, I was just ordering them off by the cost website or Amazon. [laughs] And you know, I know the manufacturers of most things because I make products so I can look at a product and then go to the ingredient label and I know what company it came from.  A lot of times.

Ben:  Okay.  Got it.

Roger:  So it doesn’t matter what brand you buy if it’s coming from a company you know in Italy or something like that, and that’s the way it is with the phytosomes.  The green tea is the same green tea I use in TianChi and Inner Peace so I just got a kilo of that from the warehouse and cut my own.

Ben:  Okay.  Got it.

Roger:  The same way with resveratrol, we use a 98% pure organic resveratrol so I just got a half kilo of that while I was mixing things and making caps.  And then the rest of it I just got off the internet in the form that I was real comfortable with and that’s how I took it.

Ben:  Wow.  Amazing.  Okay.  And by the way, for those of you listening in I’m taking notes and you can go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer if you want to kind of get a list of the different notes in the books that Roger just listed off.

So Roger, you were just starting to get into meditation, so you changed up your meditation as well.  What was your meditation strategy?

Roger:  Well, normally I do Kriya yoga every morning and I still continue to do that Kriya yoga.

Ben:  What’s it called?

Roger:  Kriya Yoga.

Ben:  How do you spell that?

Roger:  K-R-I-Y-A.

Ben:  Okay.  What is that?

Roger:  Kriya yoga is a type of yoga that’s mainly promoted by the SRF Foundation and Paramahansa Yogananda.  And so I’m a follower of Paramahansa Yogananda and that’s the energetic meditation technique that they teach.  And so I was doing that every morning and I didn’t change that part of my program but I started researching the energetics of that and also because I’m into quantum physics and I studied Daosism and all these things which really in the end all turn out to be about the exact same thing.  So but basically the energetics of what I wanted to do and then I was even reading a book that I got out a book that I read a long time before called Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself” by Joe Dispenza.  And I don’t know if you’re familiar with him but he writes a lot of books on changing your brain and he was also in a movie that was all about how to become rich and what was that movie he was in?

Ben:  Like the Think and Grow Rich like that kind of thing?

Roger:  No, it wasn’t.  It was kind of like that only it was a different movie that was very famous in the new age circles.  I’ll think of it a little later.

Ben:  Okay.  In the meantime, you read a book by him called “Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself”.

Roger:  Of being yourself but basically it’s breaking your patterns and your habits of who you think you are and the way that it fit in with what I was doing was that whole idea of instead of praying for something to happen just assume that it’s happening.  Just act like it’s happened already.  And then because I study quantum physics and I also studied the Bhagavad Ghita which is probably one of the oldest textbook and there was a copy of that called “God Talks to Our Arjuna” which was written by Paramahansa Yogananda and so I got that out and they have a great description in that book of your soul, energy and the five different what they call, energetic bodies of your soul and how it interrelates to everything that happens to you and then I also was reading “The Quantum Docto” by Amit Goswami which he’s a theoretical quantum physicist and he wrote a book that describes your five layers of energy of your body and it’s right out of the Bhagavad Ghita only he puts it more in quantum physics terms but basically what it all comes down to is that you have your physical body, you have an energy field around that that he calls the vital body and that is like the blueprint for everything that goes on in your physical body.  It’s an energy field that has been there since you were conceived and your body follows that blueprint to build the human being, basically.

Ben:  What’s the name of that book?

Roger:  “Quantum Doctor” by Amit Goswami.

Ben:  That sounds fascinating.

Roger:  Oh, it’s an amazing book.  It is based on information out of the Bhagavad Ghita which is 5,000 years old so.

Ben:  Yeah, the other person you just brought up was Paramahansa Yogananda.

Roger:  Yeah.

Ben:  I’m actually reading a book by him right now called Autobiography of a Yogi” because I had reached out to a few of my friends to ask them about what the ties would be between Christianity and yoga, and Christianity and energy medicine, and Christianity and plant medicine, and one of them brought up this idea that Jesus Christ at one point during his life, I think between the ages of 13 and 32 or something like that may have very likely travelled to India and had many of his teachings influenced by some of the Eastern practices that he discovered over there, and this book is obviously about a lot more than that but because of that recommendations I’m actually about a quarter of the way through that book “Autobiography of a Yogi”, but this book specifically regarding cancer this “Quantum Doctor” this sounds fascinating.  It sounds right up the ally of the kind of stuff I’m personally looking into when it comes to energy medicine and in physics and consciousness and healing the body.

Roger:  Oh, you’ll love Amit’s stuff.  He’s just amazing.

Ben:  Sending to Kindle after this podcast.

Roger:  [Laughs] And so you were right on with your friend’s theory about living in India.  There’s records of him in a temple in India.  There’s record of him spending five or ten years in a monastery in Tibet.  I mean, they have all kinds of written stories about it.  So what I loved about Paramahansa Yogananda was that I studied Daoism and Buddhism and Zen and everything known to man.  I was on a spiritual path when I was learning Chinese herbs and what I realized when I found his stuff was that he was blending yoga and Christianity and showing you that it was the same thing.  That it really was just different points of view of how things happen.  In fact, he’s got a book The Second Coming of Jesus Christ” which is so fascinating.  He just explains the gospels from a point of view of a guru and having students.  It’s just very fascinating stuff.  And I realized that all the things I had against Jesus had nothing to do with him.  It had to do with the way they teach [laughs] and so I became a lover of Christ from studying with Paramahansa Yogananda.

It was really a fascinating way of looking at things but in Amit’s book and in the Bhagavad Ghita they talk about these five layers of the vital bodies around your physical body, your next one’s called the mentally emotional body.  It’s an energy field where you store all your past hurts and emotions and it heavily influences how your vital body connects with your physical body.  And this is something that you could even look at in Chinese medicine.  They talk about how all energy flow and movement is interrupted by something and it’s usually your emotions.

Ben:  Okay.

Roger:  And so it fits right into this thing.  It’s stored emotions, block the flow of energy and vital chi around your body.  So but the next body is called your supramental and then above that is the bliss body.  Full bliss consciousness of God.  But according to Amit Goswami spontaneous healing happens when you make it into supramental body of your soul.  So I read this in the Bhagavad Ghita and studied it a lot and I knew that I had to get in my meditation into a space to where I transcended my mental emotions about everything that was going on and just got in to supramental or bliss and I didn’t think it was impossible because all the years that I was studying energy medicine I probably have been popped into the bliss state at least half a dozen times sometimes lasting for months at a time.

Ben:  What’s the bliss state?

Roger:  Where everything is just pure joy and happiness and it’s really hard to stay connected with what’s going on in real life.

Ben:  Almost like what a lot of people get when they’ve done like really intense holotropic breathe work or ayahuasca or DMT or something like that?

Roger: Yeah, I don’t know if I can compare it to a drug because it’s a state that I don’t know it just doesn’t compare to any drug feeling.  You’re just into an altered consciousness of pure love and bliss and it can go on for a day or it can go on for weeks and months and I knew I could do that because I’ve done it before but now I had to do it.  So that’s the part of it that really was seemed daunting to me because what had happened to me before, it wasn’t something I was looking for just happened.  I was doing so many things energetically.  I used to get up at two o’clock every morning and take a nice cold shower and then do yoga and meditate for three hours in my living room and I did this every single day.  So I would get popped into altered states quite easily.  And I was taking herbs to kind of enhance that.  Anyway.

Ben: I don’t even need to do all that stuff to be in an altered state if I get up at 4 AM every morning.

Roger:  [Laughs]

Ben:  After about a week of that I’m in a pretty altered state. [laughs]

Roger:  And so I tried to kind of do what I could do.  I kept doing my kriya yoga but every day I would just be grateful that I was healing from cancer.  I’m so grateful that it was going away and so happy that I had this experience.  I kept telling myself, I’m so happy to have this experience of cancer so that I could get over it.  I know it’s going away.  Thank you for getting rid of it.  I was just experiencing and expressing gratitude before I did my yoga every morning and then one day I got on my herb program and I was into it about five weeks and I was in perfect ketosis and doing the diet and everything blood sugar and I even came up with the drake.  You know Dr. Jonathan, right?  You’ve had him on your show?

Ben:  Dr. Jonathan who?

Roger:  Dr. Jonathan Edwards?  You had him.

Ben:  Yeah, he has been on my show, yeah.

Roger:  Yeah, well he’s a friend of mine and so in this process I was talking to him about some beta hydroxybutyrate, so I formulated him a product to raise his ketones.  So I was having so much fun.  I was formulating this for him that he now sells to his cycling buddies and it was helping raise my ketones even higher and I was doing all these experiments with new products and taking all the herbs and one day I was in my living room and it was about five weeks into it and I got blissed out.  All of a sudden I got so happy and I could tell it was happening ‘cause that hadn’t happen before and I was just ecstatic.  And I walked out in the kitchen, this was like the first of September or so.  And I said to my wife, I said, “hon”, I said, “who would have thought having cancer could be this much fun?”  And my wife [laughs] looks at me with the strangest look on her face, she goes, “what in the hell are you talking about? you could die.”  I said, “oh no, I’m done with it.  I’ve moved on.”  She said, “you moved on?”  I said, “yeah, I’ve moved on.  I’m done with it.  It’s gone.”  And she goes, “okay.”  And she didn’t look at me and then I just happen to get a phone call from my sister and she goes, “well, your surgery’s in three weeks so you’re worried or are you worried about what’s going to happen?  Do you know what you’re going to do?”  And I said, “oh no, I’ve moved on.”  She goes, “you moved on?”  I said, “I’m done with it.  I’m not even going to think about it anymore.”  She goes, “why don’t you call me back” and hung up on me. [laughs]  And I was so high.

In the next three weeks I was just in this blissed out state. I was still taking my stuff still doing everything.  And my wife was driving me to the hospital to have my surgery and she goes, “are you worried?  You know, I’m going to be there.”  And I said, “oh no, I’m not worried about anything.”  She said, “what do you mean?”  “Oh, I got rid of my cancer three weeks ago.  I’m just going in to confirm it so the doctor knows that I’m done with it, right?”

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  So everybody just looks at me so strange but I’m telling you I was so blissed out in the hospital. At least three times in the prep for surgery, I had to tell myself, stop smiling , stop acting like you’re having so much fun because people are going to think you took drugs before you came to the hospital. So I’m dealing with all these nurses and having the greatest time we’re just laughing and having a great old time, right? I go in and have a surgery, I come out, I feel fantastic, the guy comes down he goes, the doctor he says, “Well, I’ve got to send this to the lab” he goes, “but I couldn’t find anything.”  He goes, “I’m just in shock.  I don’t know what to tell you but I just didn’t see anything.”

Ben:  Wow.

Roger:  And so I went to his office three days later and he told me there’s nothing there.  You come back there’s just nothing at all.  So I just kind of laughed, I said, “yeah, I knew that before I came in.”  And so then he made me schedule another one three months down the road because it just didn’t make any sense to him that what had had happened.  He’s never seen this before.  And so I did another biopsy three months later in the same hospital and he came out and says, “You know, you just don’t have anything.”  He goes, there’s just nothing there.  He goes, “I don’t know what to even tell you.”  And this is the funny part, he says to me and he goes, “but I did call my friend who’s the head of Bladder Cancer Research at the University of Southern California and he’s an expert in this and he told me, even though you’re cleared, he would suggest that you get 15 radiation treatments on your prostate.”

Ben:  They still wanted you to do that?

Roger:  Yeah.  And I just sat there and looked at him and then he smiled and he leaned in and he goes, “I’ve got a funny feeling you’re not going to do that at all.” [laughs]

Ben:  Yeah.  No kidding.

Roger:  I said, no kidding.  He made me agree to come back for four more biopsies the next year and I agreed just to get out of the office but I knew I wasn’t going to come back.  So I went into his office to just have a cystoscopy in June and he told me, “you’re so clear” he goes, “don’t even bother to come back and see me ever.”  He goes, “you’re just done.”  So when I was leaving he goes, “You know, you ought to write a book.”  He goes, “I’ve got all your pictures if you need them,” [laughs] that’s what he told me.  And that was basically the end of it.  I’ve had a couple of scans that I paid for myself just to check things out.  I don’t have a single thing going on anywhere.

Ben:  Wow.  One thing I wanted to ask you about, you brought up Dr. Jonathan Edwards and he actually wrote a couple of articles for bengreenfieldfitness.com about oxygen therapy like hyperbaric oxygen therapy and some of these things that you may consider to be like techie biohacks.  Did you mess with that like, you know, I’ve had people on the show talk about ozone therapy and hyperbaric oxygen and some of these type of these things, did you incorporate anything like that or were you just doing the hundred pills a day?

Roger:  You know, I did not.  I looked into it and you know, I have a really highly developed intuition from meditating and it’s always been something that’s been with me the whole time I’ve been an herbalist and it just didn’t sit with me.  It just didn’t seem like it was appropriate or that I actually needed it.  The herbs I picked out all seem to resonate with me and I just felt so comfortable going on that program and I get I can’t stress enough how important I think the ketogenic diet was in it because literally you’re starving your cancer to death.  It can’t eat.  There’s nothing for it there to run on in and I had changed my metabolism completely over to where I literally was in a state of ketosis I think every single moment of the day.  And you know, if you read those books the cancer cell requires 18 times more glucose than a normal cell and when you completely shut off your glucose response like my level of fasting insulin is below two, normally.  And so and then my ketones are always between five and six and my blood sugar’s somewhere between 60 and 72 all the time.  Every day I’d almost chuckle when I’m taking my herbs and I take my little readings and I just go, oh, it’s starving to death and I’d laugh.  I’m killing it.

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  And that was part of the whole mental process to get to bliss anyway, I was laughing because of what I was doing to my cancer.  I knew I was killing it ‘cause it was starving to death.

Ben:  You know, the other idea I should mention when you’re talking about this metabolic theory of cancer and limiting the fuel available for cellular fermentation specifically glucose and the other idea’s glutamine can also contribute in this fermentation and a lot of people see success starving cancer cells also with protein restriction.  Were you doing protein restriction as well?

Roger:  I was because on that diet what I found out is if I over eat protein, it usually just turns to sugar and then I’d have an issue with my sugar and I could always trace it back to yeah, I ate more protein the day before.  My sugar’s a little bit higher.  I go into this process and I’d eliminate it and so I only ate protein twice a day.  I kept it to 25 grams a meal so I was getting probably 50 some grams.  Once in a while I’d have some cheese and that would figure in but and I’d have some extra protein and some nuts that I ate, but as far as a strict protein food I kept up to 50 gram.  So I might have gotten extra 20 grams, 15 grams on certain days from other foods but still that’s not a lot of protein and the rest was basically fat and vegetables.  Eat a lot of greens and in fact when I sat down and have my two meals a day I really ate a lot of food.  It seem like a lot I would get stuffed that I’d have to force myself to eat the rest of my meal because I knew I’d lose weight if I didn’t, right?

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  So I probably have five servings of greens at least a meal and with my protein and a bunch of fat and that’s basically what I eat all the time.

Ben:  There’s a lot of interesting research on the ketogenic diet and cancer that I think some people might be aware of in terms of a lot of it being in mice but really interesting in terms of, I know one showed that the ketogenic diet reduced tumor growth by up to 65% and doubled survival time and there’s another one I looked at actual patients and I believe they had some kind of a cancer of the digestive tract and what they showed was not only did the ketogenic diet caused a decrease in tumor growth response by significant amount, but as soon as they started them back into carbohydrates it increased.

So it was actually kind of like a dose response effect of carbohydrate feeding in terms of the growth of cancer.  And then I know they combined the ketogenic diet with chemo and found that those who did a ketogenic diet plus chemo had complete remission and then the disease started progressing after they stopped the ketogenic diet and the people who dropped out of the study and kept doing chemo without the ketogenic diet.  But then one study that I found and I’ll link to all these in the show notes so that you who want to dig into these and this is why I asked you about the hyperbaric oxygen, Roger, I don’t know if you saw this one but there was a study again this one was in mice admittedly but they tested the ketogenic diet with and then also without this use of hyperbaric oxygen therapy and they found that adding in the hyperbaric oxygen increased the mean survival to 78%.

Roger:  Wow.

Ben:  Versus the increase in mean survival, was still an increase with the ketogenic diet it was increased by about 56% but it got 20% higher just by adding in hyperbaric oxygen which is that’s one of the reasons I asked you about that was because I’ve seen some really good studies as far as like adding that in to a ketogenic approach as well.

Roger:  Yeah, I’ve read a lot of that but again I just didn’t feel like I needed it.  I just felt like I was on a great program and that I was killing it every day.

Ben:  Obviously, what you did worked.

Roger:  Yeah, you know I’m amazed and I’ve done a lot of reading on combining chemo and radiation with ketogenic diet and there’s some fascinating I read I think it was that fact that most cancer cells use an active glutathione within the cell to protect it from chemotherapy and radiation but when you’re on a ketogenic diet for a week before the treatment it actually shuts off that glutathione.  It makes it inactive and so the cells aren’t more responsive to chemotherapy and radiation.

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  So it’s a great plus and you know, one of the things I watched was an interview with the doctor who Tom I think it’s Seyfrield or Seyfield.

Ben:  Yeah, Thomas Seyfried, I think it’s Seyfried, Seyfried. [laughs]  I’m butchering it.

Roger:  Yeah, he wrote that the cancer is a metabolic disease and in his video he says, if you have Stage 3 cancer or above, you have to do chemo and radiation.  You just can’t do the ketogenic diet.  And I’m sitting there watching it going, “god, I’m glad mine is gone now.” [laughs]

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  Before I saw this video because you don’t need anything that’s kind of fear-based stuff and I just, god, I just got into a space and I was blissed out for probably eight weeks after my initial just getting blissed.  I mean, everything was just pure love and joy for about eight weeks.  And the only thing that brought me out of it was I got an allergy attack to some ragweed here in the back. [laughs] I started sneezing all the time and it kind of ruined it for me but it was just an amazing experience.  I look back on it now as one of the great things that ever happened to me. [laughs]

Ben:  Yeah, it sounds like it completely kind of changed the trajectory of I should say, your career but like almost like the things that you’re doing with your life and you’re writing this book now as well, right?

Roger:  Yeah, I’m going to write a book on cancer and the whole experience of it and give people an eye view of…

Ben:  Well, you should say based off of what you’ve just highlight to me, you should say, I have written a book on cancer, right? [Laughs]

Roger:   I have written a book on cancer and I have written a book on herbs so I’m getting all that processed and I’m going to move forward my creative expressive self.

Ben:  Yeah, I love it.  Well, I’ve take some pretty copious notes during our discussion, you’ve mentioned tons of books that I’ll be [laughs] it’s hard being a podcaster, Roger because I talk to these fascinating people and I really do now.  I read a book a day as a result of my podcasting habit.

Roger:  Wow.

Ben:  And because I’m talking to an interesting guy like you every day for like an hour to like an hour and a half and reading a book a day, the information firehose is dizzying but I love it and hopefully other people are going to get something out of this.  I will also in the show notes, I’ll link to some of the studies that I mentioned, all the books that you mentioned and then also I’ll hunt down some good resources for all the supplements that you talked about as well.  We’ve talked about you formulations like Inner Peace and TianChi before on previous episodes so I don’t think we don’t need to take a deep dive into those but what’ll do for those is I’ll put links to my previous podcasts with Roger about some of his specific formulations as well.

And by the way, Roger I was going to ask you.  Are you still taking both the TianChi and the Inner Peace as well?

Roger:  Well, right now yeah, I do both formulas.  I have changed because during my cancer I actually stopped taking TianChi and just did Inner Peace and the reason for that really was that I just didn’t think I could fit that much more herb in my program.

Ben:  Yeah, that’s a lot of herb.

Roger:  And the Inner Peace flipped my brain.  It really put me into a space where I was just feeling fantastic.  I needed that extra just straight anti-stress function, right?  And so now I take them both and I especially love TianChi when I work out and I probably taking that five times a week and I do Inner Peace at different times during the day to cut on my recovery thing to keep my brain in a certain spot and the only problem with me though is that I’m a product formulator so I’m doing experiments with three different things right now.

Ben:  Uhm.

Roger:  So besides I’m on a cancer maintenance program, meaning that I’d cut my stuff down with just two little doses that I do a day but it’s still part of  my cancer program.  I’m going on for a year or so, right?  And then I’m doing experiments with two or three different things like a different company wants me to do this and I’m doing an experiment with nitric oxide and so I got things to take like six, seven times a day. [laughs]

Ben:  I ran into the same thing, dude.  Like even right now, I’m not using Inner Peace or TianChi because I’m doing a gong right now.  A hundred days of Tai Chi in the morning and completely eliminating coffee and doing green tea instead during that period of time so I’m trying to pay attention to basically my body very intensively.  So I have eliminated a lot of anything even closely resembling like a stimulant or anything like that aside from the green tea and then I’m also experimenting right now with these different series of vape pens for cannabidiol.  And so I started to kind of use those during the evening or during nap time where I’d normally take Inner Peace.  So yeah, when you’re experimenting like guys like you and I do sometimes you’re kind of taking one thing for 30 days and trying something else but ultimately that’s how we get the word out to people and turn ourselves into little self-experimental guinea pigs.

Roger:  I’m impressed if you’re not drinking coffee ‘cause I thought that was just part of your DNA. [laughs]

Ben:  It is like growing up, my dad was a coffee roaster, I mean like my company is developing a coffee, I freaking love coffee but at the same time it’s like you’ve got to try some of these other things out and one of my clients is a chef back in New York City and he’s like a French-Japanese chef and he goes out into the mountains of Japan every year and connects with these farmers and brings back like these teeny tiny bags of green tea like $200 a bag and he sends these to me so I have a pretty good stock of amazing green teas.

Roger: Wow.

Ben:  So life isn’t too bad.  It’s the type of green tea where you can literally eat the stem and the leaf after you’ve drank the cup of tea and it just tastes amazing.  The umami flavor is out of sight.  So life could be a lot worse on the no coffee thing.

Roger:  [Laughs] I never drank coffee until I got cancer.

Ben:  Wow.

Roger:  And the only reason I started doing it was to get MCT into my system so I started doing my own version of the Bulletproof thing and mainly to get a large amount of fat with a couple of doses of herbs ‘cause I know the fat helps with a lot of the flavonoids and herbs and active ingredients to absorb better so that’s how I started doing it and having to regulate the caffeine of it a little bit because I’m just not used to taking stuff like that.

Ben:  Yeah, well when it comes to liver cancer, there’s some pretty good evidence for coffee reducing the risk of liver cancer.

Roger:  Oh no, it works.  It can be part of a great health program.  I have no doubt about it.  You know, I used to think when I was an herbalist in LA that everybody had to get off coffee and I realized one day, I think I’ve talked to 20,000 people and they’ve all had pretty good responses to herbs and none of them quit drinking coffee. [laughs]  You know, everybody drinks coffee.  That’s what it is, you know.

Ben:  Yeah, well I am still a fan of coffee.  I’ve got to admit but you’ve got a whole bunch of other resources that you’ve given us so I’m just going to link all these stuff in the show notes for folks and again you can access those over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer that’s bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer along with all the other resources that Roger mentioned during the show.  I should also highlight the fact that I talked about Yin and Yang early on in this podcast, Roger, one of the reasons also that I switched to a less stimulating drink in the morning aside from coffee was this idea of really just like eliminating a lot of kind of like the fire in my life, I did a podcast with Paul Chek about this and he’s got this thing called… it’s on a medicine really and it’s got like this wheel where it goes over like fire and water and earth and how I need less fire and more water in my life and part of that comes down to like more yin foods and less yang foods.  So I’ve actually been really careful with things like coffee and chocolate and focusing more on like green tea and squash and cooling raw vegetables and things like that.

Roger:  Oh, you definitely are a young guy.

Ben:  Yeah, oh totally.

Roger:  That’s easy to see that you’re a very expressive physical active type.  One of the earliest things I learned about yin which I never forgot is you have to look at it as almost like the wood in a fireplace.  You can have a roaring fire but it’s going to burn out really quick unless you keep stoking the wood.  And wood is the yan.  It’s the fuel.

Ben:  Yeah.

Roger:  It’s the substance that you burn and so you’re someone that probably needs to always be stoked into substance and keeping the fuel there ‘cause you’re always going to be expressing yourself.

Ben:  Yeah, I love it.  Well, you and I speak the same language, Roger, and as usual I really dig all the things that you’re up to.  So thanks for coming on the show and sharing all these stuff with us, man.

Roger:  Oh, it was a great time as always.

Ben:  Awesome.  Well, folks I hope you got a lot out of this again, bengreenfieldfitness.com/rogerdrummer is where you can access the show notes.  Leave your comments.  Leave your questions as usual.  We also transcribe all the episodes.  You can get access to the transcription usually within about a week or two after the podcast gets released and Roger, thanks so much for coming on the show, man.

Roger:  Alright, thanks for having me, Ben.

Ben:  Alright folks, I’m Ben Greenfield along with Roger Drummer signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com.  Have an amazing week. 


Roger Drummer is a Diplomate of Chinese herbology and holds a U.S. patent for growing biologically active, anthocyanin-rich medicinal mushrooms. Roger’s 27 years of experience as a Chinese herbalist ranges from formulating personalized tonic herb and nutritional programs for tens of thousands of clients to teaching and training apprentices in the art of tonic herbalism. Roger has studied a variety of healing modalities including Jin Shin Do, Shiatsu, Pranic Healing, Sat Nam Rasayan, Jin Shin Jitsu and is a Reiki Master. Roger is the co-owner and formulator of HerbWorks.com, makers of TianChi and Inner Peace. He’s been a previous podcast guest on the episodes:

-The Zen Of Chinese Adaptogenic Herbs: An Interview With The Inventor Of World’s Most Potent Adaptogens.

-The Zen of Chinese Herbs – Everything You Need To Know About How To Boost Your Brain Power With Herbology.

-Chinese Medicine & Why Sugars Don’t Add Up Right on Food Labels.

In our last email correspondence, Roger informed me that last summer he had stage 3 bladder cancer, which required bladder and prostate removal along with cutting his colon to make a new bladder bag – a protocol that only has a 20% survival rate at five years. Eliminate fatigue and unlock the secrets of low-carb success. Find out how in The Low Carb Athlete – 100% Free. Sign up now for instant access to the book! Email* I'm interested in…*

He then highlighted how he eliminated his cancer in five weeks with meditation (including Qi, Tantra, quantum physics and meditation), adaptogenic herbs and a ketogenic diet. He experienced a spontaneous healing – his goal – at five weeks and instantly knew he was cancer free. This has been confirmed in two different biopsies in September and December of this past year.

Obviously, I had to get Roger on the podcast to discuss this unique approach, and he obliged. During our discussion, you’ll discover:

-Why Roger thinks he got stage 3 bladder cancer and prostate removal cancer despite being a very healthy Chinese herbologist… [00:08:30]

-How environment, stress, and genetics affect the growth of cancer… [00:13:53]

-How Roger eliminated his cancer in 5 weeks with meditation, herbs and a ketogenic diet… [00:24:49] -How Roger utilized something called the glucose-ketone index… [00:27:40]

-How Roger used the adaptogenic formulas Tian Chi and Inner Peace in his healing program… [00:30:19]

-Roger’s anti-cancer blend of berberine, curcumin phytosome, green tea phytosome, boswellia, milk thistle, N-Acetyl Cysteine, ashwagandha, resveratrol, genistein, R-Lipoic acid, and quercetin… [00:33:22]

-The new meditation strategy Roger used to defeat his cancer, including Qi, Tantra, and Quantum physics… [00:39:50]

-Roger’s crazy experience with entering into a “bliss state”, even while having cancer… [00:47:33]

-Whether Roger used any “biohacks” for mitochondria or other cancer therapies, like hyperbaric oxygen or ozone therapy… [00:54:46]

-And much more! [01:09:00]

Resources from this episode:

–How To Cure Yourself Of Cancer: An Epic Interview With A Man Who Defied Conventional Medicine & Cured Himself Of Prostate Cancer

–Part 2: The Official Q&A On How To Cure Yourself Of Cancer

– An Epic Interview With A Man Who Defied Conventional Medicine & Cured Himself Of Prostate Cancer

–Why You’ve Been Lied To About Cancer And What You Can Do About It

–The Mold-Cancer Link, Resetting Your Nervous System, Dry Fasting, Nanonutrients & More With Ian Clark

–336: How Low Can Your Body Fat Go, The New “Red Meat Causes Cancer” Study, Five Ways To Know If Your Heart Is Healthy

–318: How Artificial Light Makes You Fat, Does Red Meat Really Cause Cancer, The Best Grip For Pull-Ups & More! –Do Muscle Building Supplements Really Cause Cancer?

–299: Does A Vegetarian Diet Reduce Sperm Count, Cell Phones And Brain Cancer, What Is A Good “HRV” Number & More!

–Why You Get Cancer And What You Can Do About It

–Did Lebron James’ Cell Phone Give Him Mouth Cancer?

–248: Does Fish Oil Cause Prostate Cancer, Is Milk Healthy, Are Body Fat Scales Accurate & More!

–Episode #128: He Healed His Mom’s Cancer Using Diet, Nutrition & Detox…And He’s On

This Audio Episode


–Curcumin phytosome

–Green tea phytosome


–Milk thistle

–N-Acetyl Cysteine




–R-Lipoic acid



-Inner Peace

–Tripping over the Truth The Metabolic Theory of Cancer

–GreenMedInfo’s research on cancer


-Adaptogens in Medical Herbalism: Elite Herbs and Natural Compounds for Mastering Stress, Aging, and Chronic Disease

–Kriya Yoga –Autobiography of a Yogi

–Books by Joe DiSpenza (including Breaking The Habit Of Being Yourself)

-Book: Quantum Doctor, The: A Quantum Physicist Explains the Healing Power of Integral Medicine

-Book: The Second Coming of Christ: The Resurrection of the Christ Within You

–My article with Dr. Johnathan Edwards “A Surgeon’s Little-Known Secret to Biohacking Your Body With Oxygen Therapy”

–22-day study in mice that looked at the differences between the ketogenic diet and other diets

–Study in mice that tested the ketogenic diet with or without hyperbaric oxygen therapy -Study that monitored tumor growth in response to a high-carb versus a ketogenic diet in 27 patients with cancer of the digestive tract

-Study showing three out of five patients on a ketogenic diet combined with radiation or chemo experienced complete remission

Sponsors for this episode:

-DailyBurn – dailyburn.com/ben

-GainsWave – gainswa ve.com/ben

-HealthIQ – healthiq.com/ben -Molekule – molekule.com and use promo code BEN




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