[Transcript] – How To Choose Your Diet Supplements, 2 Cool New Health Tools, The Best Way To Change Your Habits And More With Michael Fishman!

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Podcast from:  https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/biohacking-podcasts/michael-fishman-health-advice/

[0:00] Introduction/About Michael Fishman

[2:34] How Michael Got Started Consulting

[4:20] Science-Based Supplementation

[8:33] Filtering Through Information and Resources to Find the Right Supplement

[17:00] Technology That Enhances our Health and Performance

[18:30] Psychology of Willpower and Creating Systems and Habits

[20:30] Basis Band: Stating Yourself

[24:00] Zona Plus (use code ZONABEN to save $50)

[26:20] Tips and Tricks for Cutting Out Sugar and Carbs

[33:00] Keeping Yourself Accountable

[37:40] Books Michael Recommends

[43:30] End of Podcast

Ben:  Hey, folks.  It’s Ben Greenfield here, and I got to tell you, there are some people that I’ve met when I’ve been out and about in the health and fitness and nutrition industries who kind of seem to be on, really, the cutting-edge as far as their knowledge of what’s going on with health and the future of health as well as fitness, nutrition, and things like having less stress, being more productive, feeling younger, looking better.  One of the guys that I’ve run into who really, really knows his stuff when it comes to kind of having a finger on the pulse of this whole health industry is a guy named Michael Fishman.  And Michael is actually an adviser to a bunch of different brands and personalities in kind of the health-o-sphere, if you will, and he also leads an annual summit called a Consumer Health Summit which is this invitation-only mastermind event for CEOs, and entrepreneurs, and marketing leaders in the health industry.  Now, he has a website over at MichealFishmanConsulting.com, but he’s also here with us today and we’re going to learn a ton of stuff about kind of the future of health, and where it’s going, and some of the cool things that Michael has noticed.  So, this will be a fun interview for any of you who are interested in health, and nutrition, and supplements, and fitness, and kind of where the whole industry is going.  So, Michael, thanks for coming on the call today.

Michael:  Hey, Ben.  I am thrilled to be hanging out with you.  Thanks for having me.

Ben:  So, I want to kind of start off by kind of asking you about, you get to see a lot of cutting edge things in the realms of fitness, and nutrition, and health, and more, but before we even kind of get into that, how’d you get started with what you’re doing as far as consulting in this arena?

Michael:  Well, I’ve been at this for a little while.  I actually started consulting with Rodale, which publishes Prevention Magazine and also Men’s Health Magazine.  A lot of our audience are going to know Men’s Health for sure, and Prevention's well-known also.  I won’t even say how many years, but that was a while back and helped those big magazines build not only their magazine readership and their audience, but also some very huge book businesses.  Anybody that’s every bought a book from Prevention or Men’s Health, that’s those magazines that are selling those books as well.  And starting with them as an outside adviser and then moving to lots of other publishing companies, lots of other personal brands and personalities like Andrew Weil, and Tony Robbins, and Deepak Chopra, and lots and lots of the well-known doctors that our listeners are familiar with.  So, that’s been my world for several decades, is supporting those kinds of businesses and, more importantly, the mission that they stand for, the purpose the stand for, and the millions of people that they impact.

Ben:  So, lately, in terms of getting to see a lot of the cutting-edge ideas that are emerging in the realms of fitness, and nutrition, and health, what are some of the more amazing or kind of compelling things that you’ve come across that you think are going to be kind of head turners in the industry over the next few years?

Michael:  I really like that, for example, that supplements have become very science-based.  Just going to events that are focused on supplements or the many supplement entrepreneurs and companies that I know and that you know, I think all roads have led to this idea of what really works.  And even the things that we take to prevent things from happening years from now, the CoQ10s, and omega-3s, and so forth, there are useful benefits even in the day-to-day function of our body.

So, at the same time as we’re doing things in our life with supplements to prevent things from happening when we get older, there are also everyday benefits, and I like the fact that companies are helping consumers understand what those benefits are, understand that there’s a scientific foundation and basis for what’s being sold.  Smoke and mirrors have never been the right way for anybody to do business, but right now, anything that’s more of a hustle, anything that’s more of a promise without strong backup is just falling flat.  So, science-based supplements is a great thing.

Ben:  So, when you say “science-based supplements,” toss a few out there that you know of, 'cause obviously there’s hundreds of supplements that we see all the time.  You talk about Rodale, you flip through a magazine like Prevention or Men’s Health, and it’s like every other page, there’s some kind of a supplement, it seems.  But when you say “science-based supplements”, what are a few that you would take or that you’ve seen kind of seem to have some good science or research behind them?

Michael:  As you know, I’m not a doctor or a scientist.  And so, I take my signals from people I trust, like Dr. Mark Hyman or Dr. Daniel Amen, people, medical doctors, or naturopathic doctors, in some cases, who have vetted these products from a scientific perspective and responsibly as practitioners.  So, for me, things like, as I mentioned, CoQ10, omega-3s, magnesium, alpha lipoic acid, and biotin for blood sugar management, vitamin D, of course, garlic, glutathione, a very powerful antioxidant, that’s probably about half of my daily regimen right there.

Ben:  Right.

Michael:  And when I say science-based, really what I mean there is that supplements and ingredients that have been subjected to rigorous testing in a laboratory where the results are repeatable, and where there are peer-reviewed studies, and that the medical community and the scientific community have acknowledged the short term and long-term benefits of specific supplements and ingredients that they contain.

Ben:  Right.  And kind of, and possibly a tough question, but I mean, for people who maybe don’t read research journals or who find it kind of difficult to wade through scientific abstracts and things of that nature, do you find that it’s best to just kind of listen to some of these doctors who are at the cutting-edge or at the forefront like the guys you mentioned, Dr. Mark Hyman or, who was the other guy you mentioned?  Andrew Weil?

Michael:  Well, Daniel Amen.

Ben:  And Daniel Amen.  Do you find that it’s best to tune into those type of physician's websites and blogs, or how do you recommend consumers get their information and ensure that it’s kind of unbiased and based on this research that you’re talking about?

Michael:  If somebody has the academic chops, if you will, and the scientific background to actually go into the scientific and academic journals, I say power to you.  Some of the titles of the articles themselves are hard to get through, and I’m speaking about myself.  I’m not qualified to read those articles and fully understand what it is they’re describing, other than to possibly read the summary or the abstract, as it’s sometimes called, and just to get the summary findings.  But my own preference, just as a consumer, is to identify those trusted advisers, some of whom I’m honored to know personally at this point.  But even if I didn’t, there are people out there who I don’t know whose opinions I do trust because of their credentials, because of their transparency in terms of the research that they’ve done.  And so, that’s what I recommend is to identify a resource that you trust and for which there are good reasons to trust them, and go from there.

The other thing I did when I first started taking supplements, maybe four or five years ago, was I actually compared the recommendations of four or five top well-known doctors who focus on that particular area.  So, whether it’s cardiovascular health or athletic performance, something that you are, of course, and a lot of our listeners are very focused on, and I would actually compare and contrast the recommendations of the top men and women who make those recommendations, and then just see which recommendations were in common, which kind of gives you where the consensus is.  Because the outliers, the products or substances that get very few recommendations doesn’t mean they’re not worthwhile.  But in terms of safety and conservatism and just starting with where there’s a high degree of agreement, that was what I did.

Ben:  Yeah.  And I think that, even though, as I know that you know, Michael, physicians can be swayed just as much as the media when it comes to making their recommendations.  I like the idea of kind of having those experts, whether it be their blogs, or their websites, or whatever, who you visit, and if you see the same thing popping up over, and over, and over again, it’s pretty likely that it might be something for you to consider a little bit more seriously or look into something that might benefit you.  That’s interesting.

Michael:  In fairness, some of the personalities that are visible and have fairly robust websites do have supplement lines bearing their own name, do have relationships with other supplement companies where they get a piece of the action on supplements that are sold through their links and so forth, and I think our listeners are very familiar with those kinds of business relationships on the web.  So, there are financial incentives.  But once again, when you are looking at, or reading, or trusting the recommendations of individual doctors or personalities, finding where the consensus is, I think, is a good way to lower the risk and to just get some good ideas.

The other really important thing, Ben, is that it doesn’t always require a medical doctor or a naturopathic doctor to get a recommendation worth following.  Because, I mean, you’re not a doctor, other mutual friends of ours like Dave Asprey at the Bulletproof Executive, or Tim Ferriss, Kris Carr, people like that have studied the literature, have studied the scientific findings to a degree where, for sure, your audience are following your recommendations.   So, it’s important to acknowledge that there are a lot of very well-meaning and well-researched personalities who may not be doctors, who are naturopaths, but as long as they’re transparent about that, they maintain their credibility through their transparency and they share with you the research that they’ve done, they share with you their findings, and those kinds of recommendations can sort of be considered when you look for consensus.

Ben:  I think that another thing that is important, and I wanted to ask you about this, is the whole idea behind, you mentioned something like garlic or CoQ10, when we’re taking about the ingredients used to make supplements like that, that’s one of those deals where also not all supplements created equal, right?

Michael:  Well, that’s for sure.  That’s for sure.  There are ways for laboratories to evaluate the purity of the ingredients that were put in.  One example with omega-3 fish oil is that the coating of the capsule can be the type that would dissolve in the stomach or in the small intestine and absorption rates, as I understand it, are much more favorable in the small intestine.  And so, the capsule itself needs to be comprised of a substance that will enable that capsule to reach the part of the body where it will ideally dissolve, and the stomach is not that place.  The other thing is the omega-3 in the form of, I think I’m pronouncing ethyl ester correctly?

Ben:  Mhmm, right.

Michael:  Which you find in some of the cheaper generic brands or supermarket brands, whereas a brand like Nordic Naturals, or Real Dose, or some of the top-of-the-line omega-3 producers are using a higher grade, a higher quality of oil, and I don’t have the scientific background to describe it any better.  I mean, the point is that they do differentiate.  Also, the particular dose or amount of the active ingredient that’s in the supplement, as compared to the original clinical trial or the original research that demonstrated that that substance was effective, and did that ingredient come from a human clinical trial, or an animal clinical trial, and was that ingredient sourced in the same way or from the same part of the world as the ingredients that were originally shown to be worthwhile?  So, these are the kinds of considerations that I think the more responsible supplement makers are both using and formulating their products and also sharing with consumers when they market and talk about what’s in their products.

Ben:  Yeah.  That’s a really good point, because all the studies that they did a few years ago on resveratrol and the benefits of resveratrol supplementation, the media takes that and says, “Well, drink wine and you’re going to get all the benefits of resveratrol,” when I think the dosage that they used in the studies on mice, or rats, or whatever, would have required you to power back about 10 bottles of wine a night to actually get that amount of resveratrol.  So, yeah.

Michael:  Right, exactly.  That’s where companies can position themselves as well-intentioned and well-meaning, when in fact, and they may even think they are, but in any industry, in any business, there are those businesses that succumb to what we sometimes call the “shiny objects in the marketplace”.  They’re going after an opportunity, and doing so in sort of the most minimally acceptable manner, as opposed to really doing things in a world-class way or, in terms of our conversation, in a manner that’s consistent with the science and in a manner that is actually valuable.   We don’t want to pee away our vitamins or take them and have them not be worthwhile.  And so, these are some of the considerations that I think are helpful.

Ben:  Right, right.  Not that Michael or I have anything against red wine, by the way.  [laughs]  Moving away from supplements, there are obviously other things that we can use to enhance our health, of course, and I know that you’ve certainly had a chance to see things like technology or any of these other, everything from biohacking, to blood pressure regulation, you name it.  What are some other amazing things that you’ve come across in the past few years that you really think are going to make a big, big dent in the way that people are able to kind of take control of their own health or the things that are going to really enhance our performance or enhance our health over the next few years?

Michael:  Yeah.  Well, it’s interesting because, the way I look at things, there’s no shortage of information available to people, and a lot of it is free.  Even this, what we’re recording right now, people will be able to listen to and have it be valuable, hopefully for free.  So, there’s free information everywhere.  The one thing that, and I think everybody knows, everybody knows, I mean, the information on how to be more healthy, how to be more effective, how to be less stressed, how to have better relationships, helpful and really useful information in those areas is readily available.  The thing that’s in really short supply, and I think where business have moved into acknowledge and address this, what’s in really short supply is people’s willingness to change and their ability to keep those changes going once they’ve been started.  And, just people’s reliance on willpower when the psychologists and that community have really shown that in terms of the function of our brain, willpower is actually a limited resource.  And when we rely on will power to achieve anything over the long-term, as we know, the odds are not in our favor.

So, I think the whole quantified self space which you, and those listening, I think are very familiar with, the devices and the apps that help us to create systems that we can follow and really more in a connecting-the-dots mode versus, it’s a nuance.  I think it’s a fine line, but creating systems and habits, as opposed to summoning willpower to stay away from things, say, foods we don’t want to eat or having the willpower to get up in the morning and do the workout.  The kinds of things that spur us into action and keep us away from will power in the quantified self space, in the app-space, I think, are really, they’re right on the money in terms of what’s needed right now.

Ben:  Can you give a few examples of things that you’ve found?  I mean, when you’re talking, one thing that comes to mind for me, for example, is, you know, the app, the phone app, Lift, which is know is an app where you feed in a daily habit that you’ve decided to do, whether it be to, whatever, learn to play the guitar every day, or whatever, and you get to work with a community who’s kind of keeping you responsible for adhering to that new habit that you’ve created, and that’s just a phone app.  But, do you have things in mind that you’re kind of thinking of when you talk about behavioral change tools?

Michael:  Well, for me, I mean, two of my favorites, and full disclosure, I advise both of these businesses.  Two of my favorites are, number one, the Basis Band, which I think you’re familiar with that, Ben.

Ben:  Is that the one called MyBasis?

Michael:  Right.  The website is called MyBasis.com.

Ben:  Okay, yeah.  I think I’ve blogged about it before.  I didn’t know you were involved with that company.

Michael:   Yeah, yeah.  I’m a fan and an adviser.

Ben:  Okay.

Michael:  And that is a watch, which does tell time.  But in addition, through sensors beneath the watch, which rest against the skin measure, monitor, and record a range of cardiovascular, and respiratory metrics.   

Ben:  And that one does sleep, heart rate, does it do body temperature, or perspiration, or something like that?

Michael:  I believe it does body temperature, it does something called galvanic skin response.

Ben:  Mmm, yeah.

Michael:  I believe the speed of blood transit through the vessels just beneath the skin, a range of interesting metrics.  I mean, most of those devices in the marketplace, including the Nike Fuel Band, et cetera, simply know when you’re moving.  And if you’re sitting still, they don’t know if you’re talking with a friend or sleeping.  Whereas the Basis Band does know those various things because of the range of body responses that it measures.

Ben:  That’s right.  I’m looking at it right now.  It does optical blood flow, which would be your heart rate pattern through the day and the night, accelerometer, which is steps taken and also how you’re moving while you’re asleep, like your sleep quality.  It does perspiration, and it does skin temp.  Interesting.

Michael:  And that device is as much about the data it generates as it is about having something cool around your wrist.

Ben:  Right.

Michael:  Well, really, what it does is, for anybody who has ever been into rotisserie sports or fantasy sports leagues, I mean, instead of statting everything external to yourself and all these athletes and external things, we have a whole community and a whole generation of people that are now beginning to stat themselves.  And statting yourself and working on metrics is a good way to move away from the limited resource of willpower and really moving more into systems, and practices, and habits that are going to move those numbers.  It’s similar to setting, it’s kind of like when women want to fit into a specific size of wedding dress, and so, three months before their wedding, they do a crash diet, not that crash diets are healthy.  But the point is that’s a period of time where people actually stick to things because they have a specific goal.  And so, willpower actually goes away in service of this total dedication and devotion to a particular goal line.  Right?

Ben:  Right.

Michael:  So, anybody that’s in the business of addressing specific goals, either in time or measured aspects of your physical performance, I think is really serving people in a way that’s very, very effective.  And the other one is an actual device that resembles a video game controller or the yoke of an airplane, if anyone’s ever been in a cockpit, called the Zona Plus (use code ZONABEN to save $50).

Ben:  Oh, I’ve seen this one.

Michael:  And this is an electronic that device that prompts you through a short-timed sequence of isometric grip exercises, or grip holds if you will, that actually restores blood pressure to normal for those people who have elevated blood pressure.

Ben:  Nice.

Michael:  And so, that’s something that’s 11 or 12-minutes a day, which is a device that really, I mean, the nice thing about is it’s areally functional device in terms of going to the source of elevated blood pressure instead of drugs that are sort of like Band-Aids on the problem.  That’s another example of something that gives people a short daily habit to work on, as opposed to some sort of far reaching lifestyle change that at least in the short-term is more difficult for people to take on.

Ben:  Right.  It’s easier that even driving to the grocery store and using the blood pressure cuff at the grocery store.  It would just be something you could put on your night stand or whatever.  Interesting.  Cool.  I’m taking notes, by the way.  For everybody listening in, I’m taking notes, and I’ll put in links for everything in the show notes.

So, as far as you Michael, I’ve heard you on Abel James’ podcast, I think you were on Dave Asprey’s podcast as well, and you talked a little about how you’ve adopted a low sugar lifestyle or really tried to control your carbohydrate intake, and I’m sure people could go and hunt down those podcasts to learn a little bit more 'cause I know you went into great detail, but I’m curious to kind of get the overview from you as far as what you’ve found to work for you when it comes to big health wins in that category, like little tips and tricks you’ve found that helped you kind of achieve that lower carb or lower sugar intake.

Michael:  Yeah.  Well, thank you for asking, Ben.  It’s been an interesting process for me because there was a day about a year and a half ago, and this was interesting, I mean, similar to the woman fitting into her wedding dress, this was, I mean, transparently for me, it was 60 days before the Consumer Health Summit, the invitational event that you mentioned, and I just thought, “Okay.  I’m healthy by the way most people would evaluate health, but I’m not really congruent, not really representing, at the highest level for somebody that 60 days from now is going to be leading the Consumer Health Summit to the leaders of this industry.  And so, in one day, 60 days before the Consumer Health Summit, I stopped sugar, and really all sweeteners.  No honey, molasses, maple syrup, agave, all of it.

Ben:  Wow, just cold turkey.

Michael:  So, cold turkey on all sweeteners as well as gluten, caffeine, and alcohol.

Ben:  Wow.

Michael:  All four categories in one day, and really sustained it for a very long time, and even sugar and gluten to this very day, which is almost 600 days later.  I’ve sustained that with, I mean, I’ve made it through.

Ben:  Yeah.  That’s tough to do, cold turkey, without putting on a muzzle.

Michael:  Yeah.  It’s an example of had I just chosen some random day, I think symbolism actually helps at least to get started.  And so, I did it for 60 days, and right now, it’s over a year and a half.  The one thing, as you know, I have, I do drink bulletproof coffee on Dave Asprey’s recommendation, but because coffee and caffeine are not addictive substances for me, if I wanted to stop bulletproof coffee, I just would and it wouldn’t be hard and I wouldn’t get headaches, just like when I stopped coffee the first time.  That was the easiest win of all of those.  So, that was just a no-brainer.  Alcohol was not addictive for me, so, now I’ll have a glass or two of wine per month, and always red not white.  And so, caffeine is a daily thing via bulletproof coffee.  Wine, couple times a month.  No biggie.  It doesn’t trigger me at all.  But sugar is the ultimate devil, for me and for a lot of people.

Ben:  Did you experience some pretty intense cravings when you gave it up.  And if so, I’ve heard some people have used things like higher dosed sodium or things like apple cider vinegar and things like that to stave off cravings.  Did you have any tricks that you used if you got cravings?

Michael:  Yeah.  And I’ve heard of those and I know that they’re effective, and Mark Hyman has some great recommendations around that.  For me, I don’t think I knew what those things were at the time and I wasn’t looking for aids to sort of make the process easier.  I just made my decision and just my conviction got me through.  And I know that’s not, what was helpful to me and what might serve those who are really committed to taking this on was having that goal line in time, 30 days from now or 60 days from now, whatever’s happening, and look, you can create your own symbolism.  You don’t need a wedding or to be speaking on stage to be motivated.  I mean, pick a date and say, “By this particular date, this is what’s going to happen.”  The symbolism and a timeline was really helpful to me, and I think would be to a lot of people, and those who have listened to the other podcast with Abel and Dave have gone ahead and tried this, and it’s been very, very useful.

Ben:  Yeah.  I think that’s one thing that makes my job easy working a lot of times with people who have a goal of athletic events.  ‘Cause they’ve signed up, it’s on the calendar. And once you actually have that date, and that timeline, and that event in mind, it does make things so much easier.

Michael:  But the thing people have to look out for, and this is really crazy how this works, but for me, I’m sure within a matter of hours, or certainly a day or two, the chemical equilibrium of your body is restored in the absence of simple sugars.  However, your brain is clamoring, clamoring, screaming, kicking and screaming, to have that experience again.  My experience was that my brain wanted that taste experience and that sugar high for months.  And so, that was not a true metabolic or withdrawal, that was just, I don’t know what you’d call it, but it might, the way I say it is that my brain wanted sweets for like six or eight months before it finally was convinced that I wasn’t going to answer and stopped calling for it.  It took me that long to sort of understand what people mean when they say how you feel is a much bigger high than the taste of the foods that you gave up.

Ben:  Mmm.  Yeah.

Michael:  So, it’s been an interesting process, but your brain, and your mind, and your ego will run every fraudulent story possible to get you to give in.  And just when you think you’ve got a great reason, and a great rationale, and you really deserve it, and there’s only this, there’s just a million stories that you’ll come up with as to why you want to go off and you must remember that all of that is a fraud.  That’s the biggest thing that the human mind does is run those stories and it’s like the devil on your shoulder in the cartoons.

Ben:  Right.  Yeah.  That’s what I tell people a lot.  I work with folks who are training for Ironman Triathlon, for example, and we use a lot of minimalist training protocols where we’ll train only 8, 10 a maximum of 12 hours a week.  And there’s this “story” going around that you’ve got to train 25 hours, 30 hours a week to be ready for something like that, and that plays with a lot of people’s minds.   When all their friends are out there training 20 or 25 hours and they’re doing a third of that, it’s hard to overcome that story, or that belief, or that kind of system that seems to work, and instead trust your body and trust what you're doing.  So, it’s interesting how you can get carried away with stories like that.   Did you use any apps or any other things of that nature to kind of overcome sugar or make those dietary changes?

Michael:  I didn’t.  I’m not an app savvy dude.  So, it’s not something that I can speak to really effectively at all.

Ben:  What about journaling?  Did you ever use journaling or anything of that nature?

Michael:  Transparently, no.  No, I didn’t.  I’ll tell you one thing, it’s kind of like being, the joke that people have about people who do Crossfit, it's like, “How do you know they do Crossfit?  Well, they never stop talking about it.”  Maybe in the triathlete community, it might be the same thing.  So, for me, it just was something that I was vocalizing a lot in conversations and there’s nobody that hung out with me that didn’t know that’s what I was doing and maybe it was obnoxious, but…

Ben:  That’s a really good point.

Michael:  It was helpful to me to keep that present and to keep that alive.  And also really for my community to hold me accountable.  Because the more people that you alert to what it is you’re committed to, whether that’s your Facebook community, any other social platforms, or just your immediate physical friends and family, let people in.  Don’t show up two months later and say, “Hey.  See what I did?”  And people are like, “Well, what did you do?”  Well, let them know from the first moment because that level of accountability will help you through.  When 10, or 100, or 1,000 people know what you’re up to, that helps a lot when you’re tempted to not do what you said you would.

Ben:  Yeah.  It’s like the concept of a commitment contract where you can actually, I know they make apps or websites now where you can enter into an actual contract where you say, whatever, you’re going to donate $100 to a charity that you don’t like or something like that if you don’t meet the specific goal.  But that idea of social proof is, I think, really powerful.  That’s a really good point.

Michael:  That’s a big one.  That is a big one.  I would put my milestone days, 100 days, 200 days.  I would put it on Facebook, not because I wanted to brag, but because I was really relying on that community.  I mean, even if 20, or 30, or 40 people commented, I knew that many more had seen it, and to me, that was important, I used that community as sort of an accountability partner just as a group.  And after a while, I would just put, on my Facebook status update, I would just put “300 days” and I wouldn’t say anything more than “300 days”, and those who knew what it meant, knew what it meant.  But for me, putting those mile markers into public was, and continues to be, something that is very, very supportive to me as sort of a positive feedback loop.

Ben:  Yeah.  You put your reputation on the line too in a way as well which gives you a lot of intrinsic motivation.

Michael:  Oh, sure!  I mean, it’s pumpkin pie season.  Trust me, I would love to get one right now.  But then I have literally 3,000 people to answer to, and I do not want to face that.

Ben:  Yeah.  Have you ever heard of the website Stickk.com?

Michael:  I have not.

Ben:  STICK.com.  It allows you to create these types of contracts and it’s interesting.  It kind of takes a lot of the things you’re talking about, and allows you to make a commitment, and then kind of broadcasts that to your social community to keep you accountable.

Michael:   Oh, that’s fantastic.

Ben:  I’m pretty sure it’s a free website.  You have that and the Lift app.  That’s a phone app that kind of achieves a similar effect.  So, it's interesting stuff.  I could talk to you forever, Michael, because I know you’re a wealth of knowledge on all this stuff, but I also would love to get some resources from you for people to kind of learn more, like what you would recommend as the top websites, or the top books, or the top resources for people to learn more about not only, perhaps, upcoming trends in health, but things that you've found to help you to have less stress, or be more productive, or feel younger, or look better.  Do you have specific books that you'd recommend or specific resources that you think are kind of the biggest wins for people?

Michael:  Yeah, I do.  I’m glad you asked that.  I’ll give you three books.  I think each one of these are actually interesting because each of them suffer from sort of a misnomer, like a title that is a little bit misleading.  So, here’s the first one, and it sounds the craziest.  It’s called “Conscious Golf” by Gay Hendricks, H-E-N-D-R-I-C-K-S.  Gay Hendricks, that’s a man.  And the book is “Conscious Golf.  I don’t play golf and I know little to nothing about golf.  This book is actually, it takes the concept of the follow-through in a golf swing and it applies it to life, and health, and business in such a way where he really talks, and the whole idea is, if you’re overwhelmed, finish something before you start the next thing.  And it's an amazing, it’s a short read, maybe 100-pages.

Ben:  Oh, wow.

Michael:  But it looks at what makes golfers effective and actually applies that to every area of life in such a way that this book is one of the great books I’ve read in any subject and probably horribly under-read just 'cause it has a title that makes you think it’s about golf, but it really is just a metaphor for a really, super effective model for looking at avoiding overwhelm and being productive, whether it’s athletic performance, health, work productivity, anything like that.  Highly recommend “Conscious Golf”.

Ben:  Cool.

Michael:  Another one is “Do the Work” by Steven Pressfield.

Ben:  Do the Work.  Okay.

Michael:  Which is also a short book, maybe 80 or 90 pages, but length and effectiveness in books have to little or nothing to do with each other.  And this is a really a hard-hitting look at what it is that has us not want to do things.  ‘Cause as I said earlier, there’s no shortage of information, what there is a shortage of is people willing to change and to sustain the changes that they make.  And sometimes, the hardest thing, like for me, the hardest thing with the changes I made in sugar, gluten, et cetera was starting.  I thought about those things for years before I actually did it.  I didn’t wake up one day and say, “Oh, I think I’ll do this.”  I mean, just starting was massively difficult and “Do the Work by Steven Pressfield is like, it just smokes you out of your cave in terms of every possible psychological reason that you’re aware of or unaware of why you’re not getting started.

Ben:  Yeah.  I’m looking at the cover of that now.  I’ve actually read that.  That’s one of the books put out by Seth Godin’s publishing company, The Domino Project.  And for folks who don’t know what The Domino Project is, go Google it or I’ll put a link to it in the show notes, but pretty much any book that The Domino Project puts out, read.  They’re good.  So, what about number three?

Michael:   The last one would be the “Blood Sugar Solution” by Dr. Mark Hyman.  This also suffers, I think from a title that would lead you to think, “Well, I don’t have a blood sugar problem, so why would I read the book?”  Well, it really is a general health book about blood sugar management, and carbohydrate consumption, and the root causes of disease or any kind of dysfunction in our body with respect to our nutrition.  And it’s only out about a year and a half, and then it was followed up with the “Blood Sugar Solution Cookbook” for those whole like to prepare their own food, which I know a lot of your audience does.  But, that’s just a great book that is, embraces the current science and really presents healthy lifestyle with respect to nutrition 'cause Mark’s big thing is food is the most powerful medicine we actually have.  And so I think a lot of our audience probably thinks along those lines as well.  And so, that’s just a great book in the current science.

The nice thing is, I don’t think in 10 years, we’re going to look back at 2013 and say, “Remember how stupid we were with what we thought about food in 2013?”  I feel like, in many ways, we got to the heart of the matter in terms of what foods are actually good for us, and that saturated fat is not the villain that we thought, and really what makes sense.  Mark is someone whose books really are consistent with current thinking around that which I know is something that you talk about quite a bit as well.

Ben:  Yeah.  Well, what I’m going to do for all of your listening in is I’ll put a link to these in the show notes, as well as to just,  I know we’ve talked about a ton of stuff today from the Basis Band, to the Zona Plus, to Bulletproof Coffee, to all these books, to Dr. Daniel Amen, and Dr. Mark Hyman, and lots of resources.  So, I’ll put a link to all this stuff, as well as to Michael Fishman’s website, MichaelFishmanConsulting.com, in the show notes, so that you can go and explore some of these resources that we’ve talked about.

So, Michael, thank you so much for coming on the call today.

Michael:  Ben, this was as much fun as I knew it would be.  So, thanks for the privilege of being with you.

Ben:  Thanks.  And folks, this is Ben Greenfield and Michael Fishman, we’re signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com.  Have a great week.



Today's podcast guest is Michael Fishman (pictured right), who is a trusted advisor to brands and personalities on marketing, positioning and business growth, with special category expertise in health and personal development. In addition to staying on the cutting-edge of health, nutrition and fitness trends, Michael also leads the annual Consumer Health Summit, a preeminent invitational mastermind event for CEOs, entrepreneurs and marketing leaders.

Michael also has a unique perspective as someone who quit sugar and gluten “cold turkey” last year, and has been able to successfully maintain that lifestyle change. During our discussion, Michael and I talk about how to choose your diet supplements, cool new health tools, the best way to change your habits, and more!

Resources we talk about during this episode include:

Dr. Daniel Amen and Dr. Mark Hyman for good doctors to “follow”…

Basis Band for monitoring sleep quality, blood flow, perspiration and more…

Zona Plus (use code ZONABEN to save $50) (pictured above) for fixing blood pressure and training cardiovascular health..

Bulletproof Coffee for helping make the switch to “no sugar”…

-The QuantifiedSelf movement and website for tracking changes you make…

Stick.com website and Lift app for making positive lifestyle changes…

-Book: Conscious Golf: The Three Secrets of Success in Business, Life and Golf

-Book: Do The Work (and any other books from Seth Godin's Domino Project)…

-Book: The Blood Sugar Solution



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