[Transcript] – Altered States of Consciousness, Energy Vortexes, Breathwork Vs. Psychedelics, Dangers of Plant Medicine, Pairing Fasting With Prayer, Meditation & Breath, & Much More With Anahata Ananda.

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/lifestyle-podcasts/sedona/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:07] Podcast Sponsors

[00:03:09] Guest Introduction

[00:06:45] Ben's Paradigm Shift in his Message Since He and Anahata Last Spoke On the Podcast

[00:10:29] Why Sedona is Special

[00:14:45] An Overview of Anahata's Work and Services

[00:19:13] Inside the Healing Room

[00:27:06] Pairing Sound Healing with Breathwork

[00:33:45] Podcast Sponsors

[00:36:41] How Ben's Business is Mirroring His Own Spiritual Journey

[00:47:33] Plant Medicines Contrasted with Breathwork

[01:01:08] The Interplay Between Food and Breathwork That Can Enhance or Detract From The Experience

[01:09:11] Benefits Derived, And Sacrifices Needed to Achieve Them from Ben's Paradigm Shift Over the Last Several Years

[01:13:14] How to Connect with Anahata and/or Visit In Sedona

[01:18:23] End of Podcast

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

Anahata:  When the body feels vibration, it begins to shift things that are held in the cells, and in the consciousness, and in the emotional, and the energetic body, giving permission to express whatever is right under the surface, whatever it is, because it's medicine to just let it out.

Ben:  Achieving an altered state of consciousness by doing the hard work, right, by actually taking the path through the top of the mountain versus like popping a pill and having a helicopter drop you off at the top of the mountain.

Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

Hey, I got a chance to podcast with my dear friend Anahata Ananda from Sedona, who's a breathwork practitioner, crazy breathwork practitioner, breathwork practitioner on steroids. Meaning, she's not on steroids but a breathwork certainly is.

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Alright, let's go talk to Anahata.

Well, this is going to be a special episode, you guys, for a couple of reasons. First of all, the podcast guests who I'm going to interview, and who's actually going to chat with me, or I guess interview me as well today is someone who's been on my show before. We do podcast episode like three or four years ago called “Magic Chocolate, Holotropic Breathwork, Grounding, Earthing, Vortexes, Crystals, and More.” And I recorded that podcast when I went down to Sedona. That was my first time ever in Sedona, and I did different sound healing sessions and visit all sorts of wonderful restaurants and eateries down there like the chocolate tree, and I bought rocks and crystals for my children and my wife and had an amazing time in Sedona.

And then, a few months ago, I finally decided to go back to Sedona, and I ventured there along with the co-founder and the CEO of my nutrition supplements company, Kion. His name is Angelo. And Angelo and I went back to Sedona because I remembered it being such a special place and we wanted to do this business/personal getaway. It's really connect. And as part of that, I decided to go back and see this person who had done that healing session with, that kind of like holotropic-ish breathwork session with. And her name is Anahata Ananda, and she's known as a shamangelic healer. And so, Angelo and I dropped in and saw her, and it was absolutely transformative, even better than I had remembered. Maybe it was because I was doing it with somebody else, or I was just more mindful or present, or perhaps because I've experimented with breathwork so much for the past three or four years. I was so comfortable with it, but it was absolutely amazing, and profound physiological experience similar to what one might experience from plant medicine or psychedelics, but in kind of a drug-free format.

And so, Anahata is a very, very special person. Now, I really let you get to know her pretty well in our first podcast that we did together. But just in case you didn't get a chance to listen to that one, first of all, I'm going to link to that original podcast and everything else that Anahata and I talk about if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata2, like BenGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata2 because there's second podcast together. But just so you know, she lives in Sedona. She founded this company called Shamangelic Healing in Sedona, and she guides people on these profound journeys of healing and spiritual awakening via breathwork. She's literally helped thousands of people. You may have heard on other podcasts before we have some mutual acquaintances, and people like Drew Canole, and Aubrey Marcus, and some other folks who frequent Sedona.

And she also has a podcast called the Shamangelic Healing Podcast. And I should warn you that when Anahata decided to do this podcast, even though you're hearing me talking a whole lot right now, I'll shut my yapper pretty soon, we decided that she would be able to interview me a little bit for her show as well. So, you guys might notice that during this interview, it's kind of like me talking with Anahata and her talking with me a little bit, and hopefully, you're cool with that. But anyways, if you ever get a chance to go to Sedona, Anahata gives these in-person sessions, and ceremonies and retreats, and she does a lot of coaching and online courses and virtual workshops as well. So, she's definitely a person to add to your checklist of people to look into. So, all that being said, Anahata, welcome to the show.

Anahata:  Oh, my gosh, what a beautiful intro. I'm honored. We have had such a beautiful time together both times that you visited Sedona. Thank you for your kind words. And yeah, both times have been deeply profound experiences. And I remember I would have been about four years ago, the first time that you came to Sedona, and I remember you walking in with your toe wrapped. You were limping, and you were training. It was a time when you were training really, really hard. And one of the things that I've witnessed in you, Ben, over the years, first of all, you're just prolific. You're just full-on with the way you lead with your company, the way you lead with amazing products, a prolific author. You're really just a role model, I think, for doing great work and putting solutions out there in so many forms, whether it's your videos as a podcaster, books, and products, and your latest book, “Boundless.” This is amazing book. I want to acknowledge this shift that you've made in the last couple of years since I met you first and since we saw you recently with Angelo here in Sedona from pain cave being a big driving force years ago to now, this message of prioritizing joy, and love, and play, and laughter, and music. And I've just watched this shift in you and I feel like it's such deep medicine that you're alchemizing.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I've gotten a lot more woo since the first time that we met when I was very, I guess, yang. And I think I was training for my very final Ironman when I saw you. And as Ironman triathlon goes, kind of like CrossFitting, or Spartan racing, or anything else, you're always injured. You're always using some kind of tape, or brace, or something to keep the body parts that are failing together to finally get you to that starting line because God forbid, you set your ego aside and just decide to let your body rest. And yeah, I remember that first time I came to you. I think I came to you because I was like, “I'll do anything to get my body put together for this race.” And we did some really cool breathwork.

But I think, yeah, coming back and meeting with you along with Angelo was just a totally different experience. And I think part of it really is being in Sedona. I had this guy, his name is Brian Hoyer, and he came to my house up here in Spokane and he did what was called an EMF analysis. Like, he analyzed the whole home for where cell phone towers might be emitting signals through the windows to areas where Wi-Fi or Bluetooth might be subjecting someone to excess levels of non-native EMF. And he even went so far as to look at how all these different subterranean water currents, and mineral deposits, and fault lines underneath our house and on our property, we're generating these so-called geopathic stressors. And my wife was kind of annoyed because he was like, “Hey, got to move your bed 10 feet in this direction because it's right over a geopathic stressor spot.”

He's really explaining to us how the earth actually has certain energetic frequencies that it emits. And I found this fascinating/–I was a little bit skeptical about it, but then I got to thinking, when you look at all these different areas around the world like the healing waters of Lords in France, or I know Big Sur and Kauai, Hawaii, or a couple other places that are known for having like this really positive energy, this feeling that you have in your feet hit the ground, especially if you're barefoot, you feel these energies. And they even call them energy vortices.

And when I think about Sedona and the feeling that I get when I go there, it's like an automatic–I guess rather than describing it, I'm going to make a sound. It's like a–when you get there. I don't know, have you experienced that compared to other places that you've been through in the world?

Anahata:  Yeah.

Ben:  Is it all just a load of hooey?

Anahata:  It's so not. That's the thing is that one of the things about my journey is I've been finding that there are different places where I just feel better or stressed. And I started studying locations as a form of nutrition and where the elements intersect or anywhere where I feel more energized or less energized and I start to ask why. And one of the things about Sedona is, yes, there's these electrical currents happening all around here in Sedona, but we haven't built over top of them. That's one of the things that is different here is that the energy is free. And also, the land here is hundreds of millions of years old. And so, there's a lot of minerals which amplify the electrical current, and there's a lot of crystals that also amplify the electrical currents.

So, what you're experiencing here is an [00:11:41] _____. And for better or worse, whatever you're feeling, it'll have a spiritual amplifier. If you're going through emotional stuff, it'll be an emotional amplifier. If you're tired, it'll be you'll want to sleep a lot. If you're energized, you'll be up at 4:00 in the morning. And so, work together as a co-facilitator because Sedona is working her own magic, and then I add mine to that and it's a nice blending. But I find that being here, I have to be really attuned and listen to my body because if something is out of alignment, it's going to be amplified. And so, it keeps me really true to honoring my body wisdom or if something isn't right. So, yes, Sedona is why a lot of people come here for healing, for clarity, for rejuvenation, for rest, for spiritual connection.

Ben:  Yeah. It's a lot easier to get to than another spot, like, say, Stonehenge. Sedona is pretty accessible.

Anahata:  Sure. Peru or something like that. Yeah, it's accessible. And I wanted to acknowledge this is one of the reasons in the shift that I was acknowledging in you in these last few years of just as a CEO of Kion to be able to say, yeah, Angelo and you coming to Sedona for your business strategy session, and a place where you're not just hardcore hitting the computer all day and looking at stats and analysis, but actually coming here to exhale and deepen your connection as business partners to build trust, to be outside, to allow creative flow to happen, to come to me and do shamangelic breathwork. And I'm like, “If every CEO and team was doing their strategy sessions that way, I think we'd have a very different–” you have a different success measure.

Ben:  I know some CEOs and some people who are in business together who will actually go off on retreats and do LSD together, or journey on psilocybin together. And I totally get how you can merge the left and right hemispheres of the brain and dissolve the ego, and probably achieve some breakthroughs and some personal and business insights that you might not have been able to without tweaking those dials in your brain, so to speak. And yet magic mushrooms are not necessarily required to actually experience breakthroughs that are very similar, particularly when you're using something like breathwork.

Anybody who listens to my show knows that I've said this before that I think one of the best ways to tweak your physiology drug-free is with tapping into the power of your own breath, which also happens to be free and have a lot less biological blowback as well, risk of serotonin and dopamine imbalances, and neurotoxicity and some of the other stuff that goes along with hefty use of these plant medicines, which again, I don't have anything against. It's just I think that there are other ways you can go about doing things. And so, for Angelo and I, we really wanted to kick off our session there in Sedona with something meaningful and decide to do it with you.

Can we talk a little bit about the actual work that you do?

Anahata:  Absolutely.

Ben:  Okay. Cool.

Anahata:  I love this as a tool, just like you said, as an alternative to plant medicines. Maybe people can't get there, or it's not the right tool, or they're having diminishing returns, and this is one of the reasons why this is one of my favorite tools to offer in my healing practice for sure.

Ben:  Right. Or psilocybin gives a rash, all sorts of reasons. So, anyways, when Angelo and I showed up–and you have this beautiful property out in Sedona. And I'd come and seen you before so I kind of sort of remember that we talked for a little while before we go into your special chamber and do the breathwork. But when we first got there, we just sat and talked for an hour. And I think a lot of people who first go in for a session with you, they might even think when they first go in there, like, “When do we stop talking? When do I start all this cool stuff I've heard about?” But we literally just talked and talked and talked. What's the purpose of that? Why do you sit people down and just chat with them for so long before you start into the breathwork?

Anahata:  I think this is the foundation to me about building a safe space, building connection and establishing trust, permission to feel what you feel without judgment in honoring of whatever is happening. It's also an exploration as I ask questions. It helps me understand where I can dissolve the layers of the answers that I'm receiving, and it helps me to then explore further with this issue when I hear, or feel, or sense there's an imbalance, there's a wound, there's a disempowering pattern. I'm looking for the emotion, I'm looking for the energy, I'm looking for where there isn't clarity, I'm looking for where there's a dissonance in the energetic field. So, that is an opportunity for me to get to know the layers and the dimensions of the person that I'm going to be working with.

But it's also for each of you to be heard, held, understood, and open the doorway for a compassionate present space that that foundation is going to be essential when we go into the healing room because if there isn't trust and we get into the ceremony and you're about to have the breakthrough, if you don't trust me, if you don't feel safe, if you don't feel like there is permission to express anger, sadness, tears, rage, laughter, joy, if there isn't that container established, you won't have nearly as deep and experience as you could. And that's why shamangelic breathwork, I believe, is so different because it's less focused on the specific breath technique, and that's fine, and that's great. But it's more about the container being safe and held so that–for both you and Angelo during that journey, there are times when both of you needed to express things.

Ben:  Yeah.

Anahata:  And if that hadn't been established beforehand, then the fear, or what are people going to think, or it's not the right time, or I'm embarrassed, like if we don't get that out of the way first, you're not going to have those deep breakthroughs.

Ben:  Yeah. And we certainly had some breakthroughs that we'll get into, but I'm trying to think. You asked questions. I think you asked us, for example, about our relationship with their kids, our relationship with our wives. You asked about the background of the company. It was almost like talk therapy in a way. That's what it felt like before we actually did the breathwork.

Anahata:  Yup. That's exactly right. And just explaining what's going to happen so that that helps dissolve any of the nervousness, or the fear, or the uncertainty of like, “I've never done this before,” or, “I don't know what I'm getting into.” It was my first time meeting Angelo. A lot of times when I'm doing breathwork is I'm meeting somebody for the very first time. And I want to establish that rapport so that there is that feminine nurturing, but there's also that masculine safety where both are required for you to really have a profound journey, I feel.

Ben:  Yeah. We did that and we talked. That in and of itself was just fantastic to be able to open up and do so literally just sitting on your living room floor. But then we went into the breathwork room, like this special room where you had essential oils, you had some different–

Well, you had like a special piece of art. I actually photographed it and put it on Instagram. I'll see if I can find the photo if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata2. I'll see if I can find that photo and link to it on Instagram. But what was that piece of art that you created before you walked us through the breathwork?

Anahata:  This isn't all an altar. I feel part of my training and part of what I feel is important is setting a sacred space, and part of that is holding and creating a sacred altar. What is the intention for the journey? What are the power objects that are holding this space before the ceremony? So, there's going to be different guides, there's going to be different–we picked different stones on the altar, different intentions. In fact, you guys picked some and put some on the altar as well so that there is a space holder of energy with intention and potency that makes it sacred instead of just going into some room where it's dark and there isn't anything holding a high vibration.

So, there's going to be sacred objects there, there's going to be crystals there, candles there, probably there was Quan Yin, the goddess of compassion, probably Ganesh to remove obstacles. So, there's going to be some expression of some higher divine, guidance, and support. But there's also, we use the stones, different stones that had different words on there to anchor the intentions, and probably a heart in the middle or something like that so that whatever you meet, whether it's pain, whether it's trauma, whether it's your higher self, whether it's a dream that you have, your meeting it with compassion.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, it was cool. And actually, I think I did find the photo. I was just scrolling through my phone here as you were talking and I found it. So, I'm going to upload that and post a photo, this piece of art that you created because it's had the stones. And I'm looking at the stones. One says dream, one says freedom, one says grow, courage, succeed, friends, healing, prosperity. And there was just kind of a cool symbolic way to kick off the session. And then, you also use a lot of aromatherapy, don't you, like essential oils?

Anahata:  Yeah. And sprays. Definitely, our brain, the olfactory senses really help us to trigger different feelings. And when there's a lot of emotional clearing, a lot of heaviness, a lot of anger, rage, grief that is needing to move, I'm going to use palo santo, I'm going to use sage, I'm going to use–I use a lot of sprays, especially when we're breathing, I don't want to use smoke because that's harder on the lung. So, I don't want to sage. I clear the room before and I clear the room after of course. But when you're breathing, I like to keep the lungs nice and clear. So, I'll use an essential spray that has palo santo, and lemongrass, and sage when we're kind of wanting clearing out density. When we're opening the heart when we want more spiritual expansion, one might use rose or something that is more of a higher frequency. I might use White Angelica to help connect to the higher states of consciousness. If there is some healing happening, I might use acceptance. So, I have probably 30 different oils and five different sprays. Depending on what you're going through might be very different than what Angelo is going through, so I'm going to read the situation in the moment. And not only with essential oils, but with hands on, with a whisper, with an invitation, with some support, nurturing support.

Ben:  Yeah.

Anahata:  So, how did that feel, being how that was supported in the journey?

Ben:  I think that the aromatherapy piece, like the essential oils, a lot of people really think it's just something that smells nice. But I was actually reading a book, fantastic new book on essential oils. It's by Jodi Cohen. It's called “Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body.” And she actually has some deep science in that book, particularly about–for example, it turns out that clove and lime, two essential oils I wasn't that familiar with, they actually have a profound effect on your heart rate variability and the actual tone of your vagus nerve if they're applied behind the earlobe on the mastoid bone. And I actually started to put a little bit in coconut oil and keep right beside my bed and just apply a little bit of that to activate the parasympathetic nervous system before a night of sleep.

Another one that I–you'll laugh about this because I actually snort it like literally out of like one of those nasal sprays. Peppermint and rosemary, I do that in the morning and it's amazing. I mean, some mornings, I'll get a bunch of green gunk coming out my nose afterwards if I'm congested or something like that. And that's wonderful for focus and for cognition, and you almost like a cup of coffee for your head. And then, like you mentioned, there are others, kind of like the lavenders and the bergamots that calm you down. But we're pairing the essential oils with breathwork, kind of like turkey and cranberries. Anybody who wants to try this, if you get like a good essential oil–something really stimulating I like before breathwork, especially if it's kind of stimulatory breathwork similar to what we did with you, Anahata, I'll take the essential oil. And you don't need a nebulizer or an essential oil diffuser or anything like that. I'll just put a few drops in my hands, rub my hands together, bring my hands up to my nose and take a–like a few giant whiffs. And if you do that right before breathwork, it's transformative in terms of amplifying the effects, especially if you're using a more stimulative oil, in my opinion.

Anahata:  Yeah. I use oil. I use essential oils in so many different ways. I use eucalyptus in the shower every morning. I just throw a couple drops and I just–like really deeply inhale, and it's that invigorating start. And there's a reason why lavender we put in Epsom salts to put in the bath to help us calm down and relax. Plants are medicines, and their fragrances are very, very powerful and can help us relax, they can help us calm down, they can help us connect to higher states of consciousness, they can open the heart. And so, this is a whole another avenue of healing is absolutely through essential oils. I've been using them for 20 years. And there are some that you can absolutely ingest. And like for cleansing, frankincense is when you get a really high quality–I use Young Living Oils. So, I put that in water when I'm doing cleansing, and there's so many that I use for all kinds of different things. And then, I make my own sprays if I want one that's more invigorating or clearing, or for meditation, or to clear a room before someone comes in, or after.

Ben:  Yeah. I have all sorts of blends that I like, but I interviewed this guy named Dr. Nick Berry. He's like the wizard of essential oils, and he lives in Ashland. And they're kind of like picky, like you got to pass a profile of mood states core before you're allowed to go in and be near the oils. And there's no electrical signals bouncing around. And they use all these–what do you call them? Like the 3D geometry devices that allow for better energy frequencies in the room. But he's got this one called Cactivation that I've been using. Being down there in Arizona, you would like this one. And I think it was inspired actually by some kind of like San Pedro wachuma type of cactus journeying that he had done, but it's frankincense, cedar, jasmine, mugwort, black pepper, and tangerine. That one is like my favorite right now. That's one that's in my sauna. That's what I'm using before breathwork. And so, I bounce back and forth between these different blends that I like, but you have the essential oils right there in the breathwork room. And I think that's something that I think might get underplayed, but I think it's crucial to the experience, to this whole idea of stimulating the brain via the olfactory nerve. And then, there's some very cool things that happen when you do that.

You have a lot of instruments in there. You've got the music that you play through really good speakers, but then you've got a lot of music and instrumentation. Tell me about your thoughts on sound healing and pairing that with breathwork.

Anahata:  You know, when the body feels vibration, it begins to shift things that are held in the cells, and in the consciousness, and in the emotional, and the energetic body. So, it's something that the brain we just override when we start to experience vibration through the body, through an instrument like the shamanic drum right over the heart where it just is vibrating the whole rib cage where the heart is held. And if we're doing some heart opening where you're having trouble forgiving or facing something, or you're wanting to open your heart and expand, playing the shamanic drum right over the heart is just phenomenal for vibrating the whole chest cavity and the heart's right in the middle of that. And the heart is so sensitive. It can feel it. So, that's one that I used on both of you guys, I'm pretty sure. How did that feel to have that emanating right over your heart?

Ben:  It felt amazing. And as a matter of fact, since I got back from Sedona and meeting with you, I actually got one of these sound healing mats. Have you ever seen these? It's called the BioAcoustic Mat.

Anahata:  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben:  I can plug any tracks from my phone into this mat. And I actually like to get a massage on, but I was thinking this would be amazing for your breathwork room. And you actually are just bombarded by this frequency playing through the mat. If you're laying on your back, it's getting your spine and a lot of your deep tissue along the backside. And then, if you flip over, same thing, you feel it through your heart, through your rib cage, and it's absolutely amazing. Again, kind of like the essential oils are like turkey and cranberry with breathwork. This would maybe be like peanut butter and jelly with breathwork, the whole idea of sound healing and vibratory therapy that goes along with the breathing. So, yeah. I think the mat's called like a vibroacoustic mat or vibroacoustic therapy mat or something like that. Yeah, I absolutely felt–every time you'd come near me with the drum–what else did you have aside from a drum?

Anahata:  Well, of course, always a rattle because my shamanic rattle that's been with me, I don't know how many years, decades, helps clear out density, and there's a lot of shaking off, and letting go, and expressing out. And so, a shamanic rattle is really important for breaking up energy. The other thing that I probably did with both of you guys is a tuning fork right on the sternum, right on the heart chakra, which absolutely, again, vibrates that whole space of the heart. So, tuning fork, crystal bowl, usually at the very end when we're in those higher states of consciousness. So, crystal sound bowl, chimes.

So, there's all kinds of things I get to play with, gong as well. And those just get woven in as I'm attending to each of you and whatever each of you is experiencing, and I think where the real magic comes in. Of course the sound, the breath, and the essential oils, the sound instruments are all part of it. But I think the deepest part is reading what is happening with your energy body, your emotional body, your energetic body. And then, engaging really close with what's happening where there might be some hands on healing, and especially just a whisper, a few words, a statement, an invitation like you're safe here, or it's okay to feel that.

Ben:  The tuning fork, by the way, if anybody wants to get into that science, I actually have a chapter on sound healing in the book, in my book “Boundless.” There's actually a really good book on how these tuning forks work, how everything in your body vibrates at a specific frequency. Every cell period vibrates at a specific frequency, or every molecule at a certain frequency. But the book is called “Tuning the Human Biofield.” And that was one of the first books I read. It's by Eileen McKusick. And it's really cool because it goes into the precise locations that you can place tuning forks to elicit some pretty cool effects.

I mean, perfect example, you just get a tuning fork tuned to A and put it over the pineal gland area, right in between the eyebrows, and automatically, you feel your mood shift because you're actually eliciting an alpha brainwave production and a slight release of DMT from the pineal gland just from something as simple as that. And of course, anybody who's feeling down and just jacks up the music in your car, you realize even if you don't know that you're doing it, you're sound healing using frequencies. It's not just about the lyrics of the music or the fact that it brings back a positive memory. The way that music actually vibrates the body, and soundwaves, and tuning forks actually vibrate the body, can shift you into a certain state. And so then, that's paired with the oils, with being really open after our discussion with the other sound instruments that you're playing. And then, you're really ready to breathe yourself into a totally different state.

Anahata:  And weaving that with you, whereas within a breathwork journey, where there may be a group of people, they're like the two of you where someone might be curled up in a ball really weeping from something that they're grieving that has not really been dealt with. And so, there might be this really kind of Mother Mary holding that just allows the weeping or the grief to release. And with somebody else 3 feet away, it might be a lot of aggression and resentment, and just frustration that has been oppressed for years or decades about situations that haven't been dealt with properly.

And so, in those situations, there may be turning around and supporting people with expression, and releasing, and opening the voice again. And somebody else, there was a time in the journey where you were just like celebrating and laughing, and it was very ecstatic, and it's supporting that high vibration like, yippee, yes. And so, in the journey for me, it's shape-shifting a lot to support whatever is happening with each individual. And invite it out because sometimes people are afraid to express, or they're afraid to be joyful, or they're afraid to cry. And a lot of times in the middle of the journey, it's about giving permission to express whatever is right under the surface, whatever it is, because it's medicine to just let it out.

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Anahata:  You know, one of the things that you were coming to is that, wow, in our business, we need more play. One of the things that I feel, and I want to hear from you that came out of that breathwork because when we sat down in the living room and we were getting an understanding of why you're here, not only why are you here personally and what's going on in your personal life. And same with Angelo. But also, what is–you're also here for Kion and for your business, and where to take it to the next level.

And one of the things that came out of that breathwork is, wow, besides Kion being a place for nutrition, and supplements, and optimizing health, which it–I'm loving everything that I take from Kion, by the way. But you were also like, “Hey, we also want to be a place where community thrives, and laughs, and plays. We want to be a place where people can enjoy life.” And this is one of the things that I see that you've really shifted in, like this prioritizing family, prioritizing play, music, laughter, and joy as also a success measure to business, to life, not just performance, measures, and victories, and productivity. So, can you tell me, out of that breathwork, like some of those visions that came through about a shifting quality of life?

Ben:  I've had this nagging sense and almost a draw for the past couple of years. We're talking about how I came to you all taped up like three or four years ago. Well, it wasn't too long after that that I realized that I had been going so yang, so hardcore, so in a state of doing, and achieving, and very hardcore, and masochistic for such a long period of time that I had really lost touch with a lot of my creative, flowing, almost like hopelessly romantic music and art-loving side that I really was more tapped into, especially growing up. Like, I was never a jock or like a hardcore athlete growing up. I was like the kid who painted watercolor and played violin.

And so, like Gabor Maté says, “A lot of times, trauma is simply a long-term disconnection from one's true self.” And I feel like I spent so many years trying to prove to the world that I was a man, or do all these extremely ego-feeding type of activities that I actually did wind up disconnecting myself, or at least shifting really far into the yang, really far into masculine energies without really feeding or fueling a lot more, the yin, the feminine energies, the creative, the artistic, et cetera. And it's interesting because during the breathwork session, even though I'd kind of already come to that realization about myself personally, that my kids needed a father who could initiate dance parties before dinner started around the dinner table, or who would just break out and play random songs on the guitar or cut a workout short to go and lay under the stars instead and stargaze.

I hadn't really thought about that from a business standpoint, like Kion, the company which I started when I was still kind of in like an athlete, go, go, go, do, do, do compete mode. Kion was a really edgy, fitness, athletic. “We equip you to go crush the world” type of company. And one breakthrough that actually Angelo and I had, and was fortunate because we had like three days after the breathwork session to just hike and hike, and get blisters, and talk about everything that we wanted Kion to become, that we want Kion to become. We're really shifting and a lot of people will see this. I don't know when this podcast comes out, but like our branding, our logo, our messaging, our website, everything, we're really starting to branch out from like athleticism and working out.

And what we want to do is equip people to have energy just for life, not just the exercisers, but you're the musicians, and the artists, and the dancers, and the lovemakers, everyone who just wants amazing, flowing energy that we want to be part of our tribe, right? Like, we want the people who take care of their bodies, and biohack, and work out, and have their schedules. But we also want the people who will just skip sleep and go stargaze, or rave, or stay up late and dance at a concert, or skip a workout and go play in a park. I think even I sat up at one point during the breathwork session because–I think I set up a few times of late and scare you, and I would just start shouting ideas about how we are the infectious and contagious energy that drives you to be playful, and energetic, and dance, and make music, and breathe, and live life fully as human beings, not human doings. And even our list of ambassadors and influencers who we decide to really want to target, after that session, we decide why–just go after the athletes, the marathoners, the cyclists, the triathletes, the CrossFitters.

The people who we want as kind of like our dream team at Kion are the musicians, the artists, the dancers, the lovers. And people will see this in our rebranding, too, which was sparked as a part of our trip to Sedona. They'll see a really, really cool change in the feel of our company based on a big, big, big part of that idea that we really want to embrace the feminine, and the yin, and the flow, and the creativity, and the art. And that was a big breakthrough for us professionally, which is so funny because I've been having that same breakthrough for the past few years personally, but I never really realized that I'd left the business behind and kept out a little bit more hardcore. And so, that was one of the big breakthroughs, to be honest with you.

Anahata:  I love hearing that because I think when we met four years ago, all of those injuries were on the right side, the masculine side, and this was part of our session last time. Last time, it was a shamangelic healing journey where we do like that connection, communication, and discovery, exploration. And there was a lot of pushing in force at that time, and we talked about how's that working for you. I remember asking that question like, how's that working for you? You just looked at me, and after that, we were talking about, well, what is the long game so that you can actually have this knee and this foot working so that you can play with your twins, that you can run around and play, and that your knee or your foot is not much?

We talked about how so many professional athletes, at 35, their body, they can't even go outside. They can't hike and can't play anymore because their knee is just blown out, it's gone. And we were talking about the long game and not the short game. That's a different success measure, longevity, and not just short-term performance. It's a different success measure. Am I having fun? Am I making my relationships meaningful? Am I fully present for the people that I love in my life? And it feels like there is a deeper connection in your marriage and in your relationship with your boys. And also, with Angelo as a business partner that it's not just, “Okay. What's our stats? What's our numbers?” But, “Hey, bro. How are you doing?” And I got to see a side of you that is optimizing and prioritizing different success measures and more balance in the feminine and the masculine, which is what we originally talked about four years ago. And I just want to acknowledge how far you've come with that.

And I remember we had a conversation with that where you're like, “Hey, I might lose people, my hardcore pain cave people.” And I said, “Yes, but you're going to gain people, a different audience.” And you went out afterwards and just had a real transparent Facebook Live, I think, like, wow.

Ben:  Yup. I remember that. Out in the hills behind your house, I remember that. And this wasn't the last. This was the one that I went to solo three or four years ago when I just realized how, I guess, stuck in this hypnotic rhythm or this groove of exercise, and hardcore working out, and training to eat, and eating to train, and defining myself by my body, and my personal and physical achievements, and how much of that that I really wanted and desired deep down inside to let go. And I felt a lot of that, particularly through those injuries, speaking to me the first time that I worked with you. And then, this last time with Angelo, we talked about talking beforehand, and the aromatherapy, and the music, and the sound healing, and the whole setting, and the art beforehand, but dropping into what I would literally define, kind of like I alluded to early on in our discussion, Anahata, this altered state of consciousness, this merging of the left and right hemispheres of the brain, literally breathing off carbon dioxide to a point where you're almost hyperventilating and entering this state where you change the default mode network of the brain, right?

The same as would be associated with altered states of consciousness like meditation, or psychedelic substances, or sleep, like tapping into that same part of the brain while laying there, and then beginning to–I mean, we're spitting stuff right and left. And I remember you were sitting behind us because it seemed–how long were you there on our backs, just laid flat on our backs, about an hour or so?

Anahata:  Oh, an hour and 15 minutes at least.

Ben:  Okay. Yeah. And you're kind of like–shouting order isn't the right word, but you're kind of like choreographing us to the music, and to the aromatherapy, and to your whispers in our ears, and basically walking us through this breathwork that almost is driving us deeper and deeper into this, not a hallucinogenic state, but almost like this altered state of consciousness, and stuff just started to flow. Like I remember at one point I was shouting, at one point I was screaming, at one point I was crying, at one point Angelo and I were holding hands, which I think you took a photo of, and it was really cool. And I don't think I've ever asked you this, but have you ever use plant medicines and psychedelics, Anahata, and compared it to the type of breathwork that you do? What's your take on that whole piece?

Anahata:  Thank you for asking that. Yeah. I was drawn. A long time ago, early on in my journey, there was lots of opportunities and lots of invitations to take all kinds of different plant medicines. And I think one of the things–I did a podcast awhile back. I'll link it in my shownotes of like Ayahuasca, a medicine or a poison. And I think with any psychedelic, or breathwork, or ice cream or wine, it can be a medicine or it can be a poison. It depends on a lot of factors. Are you ready? Is it the right thing to meet the need that you're going through? Is it the right location? Is it the right facilitator? Is it the right dosage? Is it for the right intention? Is it the right space? So, I think the caveat there is some things are a medicine and some things are a poison, depending on when and how you orient to it.

So, for many years, I was not getting a yes, even though there were lots of opportunities because I'm not with that facilitator, not at this time, not with those people, not in this environment because my shamanic training, I was really attuned to energy and vibration, and the container being clear. And I had been working so hard, Ben, to clear out a lot of the density and open up channels for higher consciousness. I was a lot more protective about my consciousness and my spiritual field than I was before because I know that in these ceremonies, you can absolutely take on–I know that you're talking about the physiological distortions in the brain, but you can also take on entities.

And there's some energetic interdimensional stuff that's not clean that you didn't start with, and it's like, “You know what, I'm here to clean out stuff, not take on more density. Oh, I'm very, very discerning about who, when, why, and where.” I open my field to anything down to who I would receive a massage from. I'm very particular. And if I'm going to leave my body in an altered state, you better be damn sure I'm going to make sure that the environment is clear, that I trust that practitioner, that they know what they're doing. So, for many years, I did not–it wasn't time. I didn't get a yes. And even if I got a yes of like this plant is calling me, I was getting a no about other important things like location and facilitator.

But in 2005, I think it was 2005, yeah, went down to Peru and I'm like, “Okay. I'm going to go to where the vine is grown. I'm not going to ask her to come to me. I'm going to go to her.” And I went into the jungle and I sought out a very particular, well-known, well-established ayahuasca, and I did a number of journeys down in the jungle. And I trusted this facilitator so that I could absolutely surrender. And I think ayahuasca shows you things, but it might not be something that you're ready to see. So, sometimes we open that door for the wrong reason, and we might get shown something that we're not actually ready or equipped to integrate. And so, sometimes we get information, or we get a vibration, or we get an insight that we can't actually assimilate. And so, it creates a little fisher or a little distortion there.

And other times, things that you couldn't see all of a sudden, ayahuasca will be like, “Hey, let me show this to you.” Like, wow, I didn't see it like that before, or I didn't understand what was really happening. And so, I have found that my experiences were amazing when I sat with the vine in the jungle by myself before I left. I went into meditation and I put my hand on the vine, and I said, “Grandmother Ayahuasca, what do you want me to know?” She goes, “You don't need to ingest me again.” Which I was surprised to hear from her. She's like, “I'm already in your consciousness. If you have any questions, just ask me.”

Ben:  Mm-hmm. So, you don't need to go on your 40th ayahuasca retreat to keep searching and searching like so many people. That's the thing, and I think a lot of people don't realize this, is it's like sometimes, you've taken an antibiotic to get rid of an infection, and that doesn't mean you're on it for the rest of your life. You worked with it, not necessarily the ayahuasca is the equivalent of an antibiotic. But with drugs, or substances, or plants like this, they aren't something that you use for life. Like for example, oil of oregano, potent and very effective antifungal, but it's not something I take year-round. I take it if I feel that I've got some kind of a candida or yeast issue going on, or been exposed to some type of illness, but it's not something that you use day in and day out or necessarily keep coming back to. And that might not be the best example.

But this idea that plant medicine can almost become a crutch, a habit, or even an escape because you are in an altered state and it's very easy to just forget life, especially with some of these that are a little less, I guess, rip you wide open and purge like ayahuasca. A lot of people will just do psilocybin, or LSD, or something that might be potentially more pleasant. And it can be an escape, but I think in a different way than breathwork because somebody could say, “Well, breathwork and achieving altered state via breathwork is the same thing. And maybe you're escaping, maybe you're overusing it when you don't need it.” But I think for me, there's something remarkably different about achieving an altered state of consciousness by doing the hard work, by actually taking the path to the top of the mountain versus like popping a pill and having a helicopter drop you off at the top of the mountain.

There's something that feels different afterwards. There's something that feels cleaner. There's something that feels more character-building about it. And compared to the use of plant medicine or psychedelics, which I don't feel called to very much at all, anytime someone says, “Hey, let's do a breathwork session,” I'm like, “Yeah, in. Let's do it.” And so, me and–I don't know if I told you this, Anahata, both my twin boys join me with this. Like, we usually are in a breathwork session at least a couple of times a week now, typically 20 up to 60 minutes in length. For us, it's like an exercise routine or having dinner, or any other part of our day that might be woven into our day or woven into our week. I think it's just foundational, especially for young people to have this. I feel like breathwork, and learning breathwork, and developing an intimate relationship with how to tweak your physiology using your own oxygen and carbon dioxide, it's a skill that I think every human being should know. I'm shocked. I think you should know how to use your lungs the same way as you should know how to use your freaking genitals, right? It's like they're there for a reason, right?

Anahata:  Well, yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot to unpack here in our breath is–all the yogis in East India, this is Pranayama, has been around for thousands of years. And so many different cultures understand, and ancient traditions understand the power of breath for courage, the power breath for calmness, for alertness, for relaxation. There's so many different ways that we can use our own chemistry, our own pharmacy based on how we adjust our intake of oxygen, the pace, whether we hold it in, hold it out. There's so many wonderful videos now. There's so many different ways in which breath can help us reach deeper states of meditation.

Shamangelic breathwork clears out a lot of density, and then also opens to higher consciousness. I love that. It's efficient and it's clean. And usually, you're not really shown something that you're not ready to integrate. And so, I think it's important, like if you see a vision or it's time to deal with something from your past, it's probably because you have the right support, you have the right container, and it's what's keeping you from moving forward. It's time to go deal with that trauma, or that insecurity, or the–I gave my power away to get this person's validation and unravel those things at a core level so that you can reclaim your wholeness, your power, your truth, and your freedom. Just like you said, “Hey, a lot of your yang training and go, go, go was coming from a place of needing to prove.

And there's different ways where we can go after and be the best version of ourselves from a place of curiosity, from a place of, “I want to be my best self.” And there's also some of more unhealthy motivations of, “I need to prove myself,” or, “I want to be better than that person,” or, “This is how I achieve attention, love, and worth.” And so, those are the kinds of things that with breathwork, and different healing modalities, and different therapies that we're wanting to unravel and dissolve the distortions that are keeping you from being your fullest expression. And breathwork I think is one of those quite efficient ways of doing that.

One of the other side effects that I've noticed with too many psychedelics or too many mind altering experiences where you're taking something to alter your consciousness rather than your own breath, and your own emotions, and your own energy, or spiritual connection to the divine. When I was sitting with the vine that last day, she said two things. One, you don't need to adjust me anymore. And two, but our work is done, which I didn't get at the time. But, Ben, what has happened since then, which was, I don't know, how many years ago, almost 18 years ago, something like that, is that ayahuasca keeps sending me all of these people that have had traumatic experiences. I get the people that knock on my door that haven't slept for two weeks, that now are dealing with entities. And I know this sounds really far out and really woo-woo, and really like, is she for real?

Ben:  Yeah. I mean, an evangelical Christian might describe it as someone who's demon-possessed. And whether it's that or something else, there's some pretty profound either neurotransmitter shifts or–I do have a friend who got super sick and was actually working with a shaman who is out to get her, so to speak, and she actually had to almost go into like a spiritual shaman battle between that shaman and the other shaman battle to rip almost like the–I guess like a curse or a spell that one shaman had put over her, and she was super sick. This stuff happens. We're talking about full-on different spiritual dimensions that I think a lot of people underestimate. This is not just tweaking chemicals in the brain, like you're playing with some pretty hefty spiritual dimensions here.

Anahata:  Right. And it's different than if you have too much tequila and your liver is paying the price.

Ben:  Right.

Anahata:  It's very different when you are shifting your brain chemistry and you're opening up your gateways to fourth and fifth dimensions and there isn't a clear boundary, there isn't discernment about what you let in or what you let out. And so, to me, interdimensional work needs incredible training. That's why I spent so many years training and doing this kind of work so that I can help people disseminate, kind of extract the parts that are interwoven with somebody else's energy, whether that was from a trauma in childhood, or whether that is from an entity. There's a lot of distortion around psychedelics that unfortunately, people that are not in integrity are leading ceremonies that are taking advantage of people during ceremonies, or they're taking extorting finances so that they stay there and do more ceremonies.

And in my meditations at different times with ayahuasca, I'm like, “Why do you keep sending me people like this?” And she goes, “Because you're going to clean it up. And also, I want you to talk about it.” Like, do I really want to talk about this? No, but it's part of my ethical agreement with ayahuasca is to bring awareness that it's not always the best ever. It can be. I've experienced it, its effects. I want to be very clear. It absolutely can be a medicine with the right person in the right container for the right reason, in the right dosage.

Ben:  And anybody who just wants to wrap their heads around the physiological side, I mean, just google something like serotonin syndrome and just see what kind of effects you can have when you're playing with chemicals to that extent versus, say, doing something a little bit more natural via protocol such as breathwork. There was one question I wanted to ask you because when we're talking about plant medicine and psychedelics, in many cases, you do a dieta or a special protocol of fasting, or plants, or even avoiding certain forms of meats, or heavy foods, or spicy foods, or stimulants for several days or up to a week prior.

I've personally found that I have very, very good breathwork sessions if I do them fasted. And there are even books like the “Atomic Power of Fasting,” or there's one by John Piper that I just got that I didn't read yet, but it's called “Hunger for God,” about pairing fasting with meditation. Arguably, you could also say the same thing about pairing fasting with prayer and breathwork, or fasting with meditation and breathwork. But I always feel like I get the most out of a breathwork session, waking up and doing it in the morning, like in my sauna, in a fasted overnight state, or at least like after a day where I haven't been eating heavy amounts of meat, like a few vegetable juices, things like that. Have you experienced the same thing where there's almost like this interplay between food and breathwork that can either detract or add to the experience?

Anahata:  Absolutely. And that's why I tell people, don't eat a big meal before. It's better to eat light. Not everybody is accustomed to fasting, but I feel that any spiritual practice, when there's less in the blood, that's really what we're talking about here because when you're talking about big meat particles and a lot of dense food in the blood, when you're hyperoxygenating the blood, which is what you're doing with breathwork, it's one of many things that you're doing, it can flow through the body more easily if it's not filled with a lot of food particles.

And so, the cleaner, the more liquid, the more fluid that your blood is, then when you hyperoxygenate it, it really has a profound physiological cleansing benefit. Like the minimum is you're getting a physiology, a detox with all that oxygen moving through the blood, which is then moving through all of the organs, moving through the liver that has such profound effects just physiologically cleansing. But when we're also doing that in the brain, we're hyperoxygenating the brain. And so, we're clearing out toxins and heavy metals. We're clearing out also the calcifications that are in the sixth and seventh chakra is the pineal and the pituitary glands because those get calcified. The more thin your blood is and the more you can oxygenate it, it actually opens those channels for higher consciousness. This is why meditation and fasting goes so well together. And my biggest profound epiphanies have happened when I have been fasting and meditating because there is literally nothing between you and consciousness. That's where the crown opens, the crown chakra opens.

Ben:  I think if you look at it from a physiological standpoint, because that's why I studied at University of Idaho with physiology and biomechanics, when you look at this type of breathwork, by over-breathing, you're initiating basically metabolic alkalosis, or what's also known as respiratory alkalosis, where you are removing more carbon dioxide than usual and essentially alkalizing the body. And so, arguably, by avoiding foods that would be acidic, like coffee or dairy, or alcohol, or large amounts of red meat, and eating alkalizing foods, which are mostly fruits and vegetables, then you would increase your ability to more rapidly shift into an alkalized or alkalosis like state by doing so. And really, the kidneys do a pretty good job maintaining a balance in acidity and alkalinity. Yet I'm just saying subjectively, I get more out of breathwork when I actually pay attention to the diet that I pair with the breath.

Anahata:  That's super important, and the benefits that you get from that. That's the preparation is eating light and having a clear intention. And I think the most powerful thing around impactful breathwork is the integration process. Like, what are you doing with the epiphanies that you received during your ceremony or during your breathing meditation, or whatever it is? Like, the wake-up calls, the new truth that you received, what does that change? How does that change the way you look at yourself in the mirror? How does that change? What motivates you during the day? How does that change? What is important to you, what you value, how you treat another person, how you respond to stress, and how you respond to when you're being challenged, or there is someone attacking or judging. Like, how does that shift the way that you will interact with life and go after your dreams? How does it shift your fear threshold?

And I think that that's the biggest part of really getting the most out of your breathwork is spending deep days and integration. And that's not throwing another ceremony right on top of it, whether it's a plant medicine or a breathwork ceremony. It's like, “Wow. I just opened my states of consciousness. I just released a whole hell of a lot of density. What just shifted and what does that change in my life going forward?” Without those questions, I don't think it lands deeply. That's why after every breathwork, I always ask like, “What does this change? What did you just get? What truth did you just realize? What did you just let go of?” So, there's that journaling exercises like, what did you just receive? What just shifted? Let's just name it. Let's put a date on it. Let's clarify that. But also, what does that mean going forward? What does that shift? Because that's the difference between having a wake-up call and actually deeply having a shift in your embodiment.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. I fully agree. And I was very fortunate that Angelo and I did the breathwork session early on our trips. We had three full days of hiking, and integration, and talking afterwards. And fortunately, also, I think you said you don't do this often, but you were back there behind us jotting notes that you gave us that were very helpful because obviously, we were laid flat on our backs. I would say if the music hadn't been so not overwhelming, but enveloping and loud, I probably had like a digital recorder and literally recorded what I was saying during the session. And I actually might do that for our next session is just bring a digital recorder in and record what I say, which I'll sometimes do.

If I do a plant medicine ceremony, for example, I just have like a Zoom and I'll flip it on, and then having access to that afterwards. I think that helps, too, with all implementation piece just having recorded what you said or enabling yourself to record or have a nice scribe like you handy, Anahata, to keep track of things because I think that's super helpful as part of the integration as well. That or just getting down as soon as possible afterwards and writing down everything that you found. I think that's key because otherwise, it's just kind of like in one ear out the other to a certain extent. Even if it's super important, you just forget sometimes.

Anahata:  I recommend having people come up with a mantra like, “Okay, this changed. Okay.” So, whether it's play, love, laugh, whatever, those are some of the things that came out of really valuing family, and play, and connection. And so, what is a new guiding life statement that is something that can be repeated daily and visited daily? So, a new reframed mantra or daily affirmation is what I recommend for people as well so that they can revisit that and integrate it. I just want to ask you another quick question, and that is like, when you have been making this shift from being a human doing to being a human being, and shifting, and alchemizing your yin and your yang energies, and integrating them more, what is a benefit that you're experiencing? And what is something you had to let go of to get that benefit?

Ben:  Biggest benefit that comes to mind is deeper connection with my wife and my children, who are all–well, if you look at their Enneagram profile, they're peacemakers, they're all type B, they're all super artistic, they're all super creative, they were kind of like stuck for so long with general dad. And for me to just be able to hang out with them and not only meditate, and pray, and do gratitude practice, which has been something we've done for a long time now, but there's more dance parties, there's more just randomly playing music and beating drums, and going outside in the middle of the workday, and just kind of flowing a lot more than functioning. I think that's the biggest thing is connectivity to family. And to allow for that, some of it had to come down to me realizing I didn't have to adhere to a rigid schedule. I didn't have to have zero inbox by the time dinner rolled around and have to get X number of minutes of working out in because frankly, even though my brain sometimes tries to make me think I am, I'm not a professional athlete anymore, or someone who identifies themselves with towing the starting line of a race.

Just changing some of those things from a prioritization standpoint, and then just being okay with flowing and with almost like a little bit more of a type B approach to certain elements of life. Don't get me wrong. You need, in order to maintain some semblance of structure, and predictability, and control, which sometimes things gets vilified too much, you have to have some amount of scheduling, and order, and calendaring, and things like that in your life. But I was way too far pushed in that direction and not far enough in the flowing direction. So, I would say that's the biggest thing.

Anahata:  I think that there's medicine and alchemy to finding the balance between structure, and freedom, and work, and play, and being and doing. And I'm also hearing that you had to shift your value from winning to a different value, from being at the starting line, and also having to face the guilt of putting in less–or stepping away from the office when the things aren't done. Like facing the–my value and my worth is not associated with my productivity today. It doesn't mean I don't get things done. It doesn't mean you're just on the couch, Netflix and smoking pot all day, but there's a way of stepping back and not feeling guilty about, “Oh, I didn't finish my work out because I was outside with the guitar under the stars with the boys, and my sweetie.”

Ben:  Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Speaking of which, I have a joint and the whole lineup of “Family Guy” from last year waiting for me on Netflix [01:12:10] _____ finish. So, we got to wrap this thing up so I can get on to my next party. But anyways, I did have a couple of things that I wanted to mention as we get close to having to end here, because I actually do have somebody I got to hop on the phone with here in about 10 minutes, speaking of calendaring. But first of all, I know that you, from my audience, are giving like a free guided visualization with your online feminine and masculine balancing course. Feminine and masculine balancing is certainly something that I do quite a bit of. So, I see the value in that and I'm going to link to that in the shownotes. It's just like a free download that you guys can access from Anahata's website that she was kind enough to put together for us. And that's all going to be in the shownotes at BengGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata2, Anahata, the number 2.

Anahata, for people who would want to actually come to Sedona and work with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you, or to set up a session, or schedule a session similar to what me and Angelo did?

Anahata:  Shamangelichealing.com. There's an inquiry form there where you can say, “Hey, here's what I'm going through. I want to bring my family or my partner and I, or I'm coming by myself, or I want to attend a retreat or do online coaching, whatever it is. So, shamangelichealing.com. And because of the whole COVID thing, there's a lot more virtual. We're doing virtual breathwork, we're doing virtual workshops, and there's going to be some virtual retreats coming up this year. So, if you can't get to Sedona for whatever reason, then there's also online opportunities, and yeah. Then there's the Shamangelic Healing Podcast as well, which happy to have you on.

And for those people that are listening from my end, where can everybody find you, Ben? And first of all, I highly recommend, everybody, grab your “Boundless” book because that–I mean, just the title, “Upgrade Brain, Optimize Body, Defy Aging,” and I think everybody can benefit. There's a lot of juicy stuff in there. So, for your fans that haven't yet picked up that book, go get it. And also from my listeners, go get it. We'll have a link to where you can get that book. But where can everybody find you? And first of all, I'm going to put a link to Kion for sure because I love your products. And one of the things that I know about you is that you're going to make sure that it's clean, it is high quality, it's going to be the best of everything, the best formulation because you would have nothing less for your body and you wouldn't want anything less.

Ben:  Thank you. Don't drink the coffee before your breathwork session, but the fish oil. The fish oil could come in handy. That's clean, alkalizing, thin out your blood a little bit. But yeah. First of all, your check's in the mail. Thanks for the shameless plug, Anahata. And yeah, I'm at BenGreenfieldFitness.com. My podcast is called the Ben Greenfield Show. So, it's far less narcissistically titled than Anahata Shamangelic Healing Podcast, or far more narcissistically titled, I should say. And then, yeah, that's you can find me. The book you can find anywhere where books are sold, and that one is called “Boundless.” And then, I'll put all the shownotes for everything that you and I talked about, Anahata, at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata2. And then, the very last thing is I might see you soon because my wife and I always do like quarterly retreats just to get away and hang out with each other, and plan out our lives, and make nefarious plans for our children's lives. And we are thinking about actually getting out of rainy Spokane in late February and coming down to Sedona. And if we do, we'll totally drop in for breathwork session.

Anahata:  Oh, absolutely. And you know what, I'll take you to some really cool hidden spots in Sedona, like really sacred, sacred spots. So, we'll get out on the land and feel those vortexes, and my pleasure, my honor. And one of the things we do have in common is that we both have twins. Yours are younger. You have boys and I have a boy and a girl. But that's something that we share in common and being honored to support other parents of twins. So, Ben, thank you for what you do in this world. You're a prolific author, you're a wonderful father, a devoted husband. Your products, your podcast, you're really just bringing such fabulous, valuable information. I'm grateful for everything that you're doing. And I don't know how you find the time. And that is coming from structure, you are very disciplined and you get results and I'm really impressed with who you're evolving into as well because you're now sharing with other professional athletes and CEOs that there's another way to live. And I love that, I love that. And your sons are having that role model, that life is not just all about work and winning.

Ben:  Yup. And they're not in prison yet. I'm assuming your twins aren't either?

Anahata:  No. They're doing what they love.

Ben:  Okay. Good, good.

Anahata:  They're doing what they love. In fact, they're in Oregon, not far from you. They're like out there playing and snowboarding, and they're stand-up paddleboarding in the lakes and rivers there and enjoying life outside and with people that they love.

Ben:  Amazing.

Anahata:  Thank you, Ben. I appreciate it and looking forward to seeing you very soon and for many years to come.

Ben:  Alright, Anahata, well, catch you on the flipside in Sedona. And again, folks, shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/anahata, A-N-A-H-A-T-A2, Anahata the number 2, and 'til next time. I'm Ben Greenfield and Anahata Ananda signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.



In the podcast episode “Magic Chocolate, Holotropic Breathwork, Grounding, Earthing, Vortexes, Crystals & More With Shamangelic Healer Anahata Ananda.” and the article “Breath Vs. Psychedelics: How Breathwork Journeys Can Release DMT For A Psychedelic-Like Experience, Clear Emotional Trauma, & Re-Energize Your Body., I introduced you to my friend Anahata Ananda.

Recently, I returned to Anahata's hometown of Sedona, along with my business partner and Kion co-founder and CEO, Angelo Keely, to undergo a transformative breathwork session, during which both Angelo and I had some deep business insights and a profound physiological experience very similar to what one might experience from plant medicine or psychedelics!

Founder of Sedona’s Shamangelic Healing, Anahata blends the compassion and tenderness of an angel and the wisdom and strength of a Shaman to guide profound journeys of core healing and spiritual awakening. As a certified high-performance coach, Shamanic healer, and soul guide, Anahata has guided thousands of individuals through life shifts—helping them to heal core wounds, release their fears, open their hearts, and reclaim their power. She is the host of the internationally acclaimed Shamangelic Healing Podcast, which is designed as a platform for sharing deep authentic conversations and resources to address real-life issues. In Sedona, Anahata offers in-person sessions, ceremonies, and retreats as well as coaching, online courses, and virtual workshops.

During this discussion, you'll discover:

-Ben's paradigm shift in his message since he and Anahata last spoke on the podcast…6:45

-Why Sedona is special…10:35

  • Sedona is known as an “energy vortex”
  • Different parts of the world promote stress andinner peace
  • Minerals and crystals in the earth amplify energy in the air
  • People visit Sedona for healing, clarity, rejuvenation, spiritual connection
  • Much more accessible than Peru or Stonehenge
  • Energy vortexes around the world

-An overview of Anahata's work and services…14:50

-Inside the healing room…19:11

-Pairing sound healing with breathwork…27:15

-How Ben's business is mirroring his own spiritual journey…37:15

  • Ben and Angelo want Kionto be more than a supplements, health, and fitness company
  • Prioritize play, music, joy as a metric for the success of the business
  • Ben felt he had lost touch with the creative, artistic side he once embraced as a child
  • Trauma is a long-term disconnection from one's true self
  • Kionis branching out from exercise only, embracing artistic folk as part of the tribe
  • Play the long game vs. the short game when it comes to fitness and quality of life
  • Ben realized he craved a release of the masochistic lifestyle
  • He realized he would lose a portion of his audience but would gain a new audience

-Plant medicines contrasted with breathwork…47:45

  • Anything can be a medicine or a poison depending on how it's used
  • Anahata's use of plant medicine was not effective for a very long time
  • Very discerning, even on who gives her a massage
  • You may not be ready to see what the plant medicine is showing you
  • Many plants are not to be taken regularly, nor more than once
  • Climbing the mountain vs. being dropped off at the top by a helicopter
  • Healthy and unhealthy motivations (curiosity vs. envy or oneupmanship)
  • Serotonin syndrome

-The interplay between food and breathwork that can enhance or detract from the experience…1:01:15

  • A Hunger for Godby John Piper
  • Better to eat light or fast prior to any spiritual practice
  • Hyper-oxygenating blood and brain, clearing out toxins and heavy metals
  • Thinner blood opens up channels for higher consciousness
  • What are you doing with the epiphanies you receive during sessions?

-Benefits derived, and sacrifices needed to achieve them from Ben's paradigm shift over the last several years…1:09:10

  • Deeper connection with wife and children
  • Change the perception of value on winning the race, being productive, etc.

-How to connect with Anahata and/or visit Sedona…1:13:30

Resources from this episode:

– Anahata Ananda:

– Podcasts:

– Books:

– Articles:

– Essential Oil Wizardry Essential Oils (use code BEN to save 10%)

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

Kion Immunity Bundle: Support your immune system from all angles with vitamin C and zinc, grass-fed colostrum, and organic oregano oil. Take 10% off your order when you visit the Kion website today!

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