Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: In this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast, how plaque really happens. The latest on alcohol and longevity, weightlifting versus bodyweight training, exercising with a time crunch and family obligations, and much more. Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this. Well, howdy. My hair. My hair.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:41]: For those of you watching, the video version of this episode seems to have a life of its own today, and I'm proud of that. I am often asked what I do to maintain this massive mane. Kind of turn my head sideways. You can see what that looks like. My approach is not necessarily steeped in science, although it did have some really scientifically informed conversations about this when I interviewed Dr. Cameron Chesnut, a friend of mine. I'll link to that in the show notes, which are all going to be at bengreenfieldlife.com/477. Bengreenfieldlife.com/477. But let's face it, I don't have time for pedicures.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:17]: I don't have time for manicures. I don't have time to go in and do microneedling and facial follicular transplant, blah, blah, blah. I need something sustainable I can do. So here is my, my bastardized version of hair growth therapy, self-inflicted at home. I dermaroll my scalp once a week. I actually dermaroll my whole face and even my neck and my scalp once a week. And that's because once a week I do a clay mask. I think clay masks are really, really cool.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:47]: They, they seem to reduce wrinkles, they seem to improve tone. I think there's something to them. I use this stuff from a company called Olitora. It's even got like, you know, four day old goat colostrum or some crazy stuff like that. Unicorn tears, you name it, everything's in there. But I smear that on my face, dermaroll, and I smear it on my hair. Go stand in front of the red lights and check some emails, go shower it all off like, you know, a half hour later.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:14]: But then I also, maybe this is more of the bastardized part. I just have one of those fine tooth combs, you know, the ones that kind of, kind of, sort of hurt a little bit if you press them into your scalp. And I comb my hair with that every morning based on the idea that that would improve blood flow in a similar fashion as a dermaroller, but obviously much less expensive than burning through ten dermarollers a month. And then I put my, you know, I clean my face and I put my moisturizer and serum and all this stuff on, but then I've got all that stuff like leftover on my hands, right? Like all that expensive stuff I put into my face. And so I smear it into my hair right after I've combed my hair with the, with the sharp tooth comb. There's probably some cosmetic surgeon out there laughing their ass off at my way of keeping healthy hair, but it seems to work, honestly. My hair seems to be getting bigger and thicker and longer as I get older. I mean, I'm, I'm 42, and look at that.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:13]: I want to be narcissistic or something like that, showing off my lion's mane. But it seems to be working. Knock on wood. I'm probably going to start going bald tomorrow after doing this podcast. Hair or the face stuff I use, by the way, is I go back and forth. I use this stuff from Ollitora, the same company makes that clay mask. And then I use this stuff from Young Goose because it's got like spermidine and NAD and peptides and all these things that theoretically could help hair to grow, too. So that's what I do, and that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:45]: All right, let's jump into today's show. Hey, like I mentioned, all the show notes for all the research and the reviews that I go through, anything I mentioned in the Q&A, we make the show notes juicy. There are bengreenfieldlife.com/477. Unlike my traditional method of recording a podcast these days, which is by or while walking, I don't walk when I am recording these solo episodes for you, frankly, because I'm talking a lot. Usually if my guest is talking a lot, I can walk. I can listen to them, I can ask some intelligent questions here and there. But if I can take a picture of you, of my work desk here, it's like I've got this huge, thick book over here. I'm going to be reading you a study from, and I've got a pile of articles over here, and I got post it notes with stuff written on them here.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:38]: And I got my show notes in front of me. It'd be hard to walk and record this episode for you, but I usually walk when I'm recording, and I just dug into a little bit more research. I was recently reading an article on Joe Mercola's website. It had some good citations in it as well. And I just wanted to remind you why? Why walking while you're working? Why walking while you're taking phone calls? Who was I listening to this morning? Daymond John. My friend Gary Brecka interviewed Daymond John. And Daymond's like, yeah, just save all my phone calls and walk like 8 miles sometimes in a day, just doing all my phone calls and my Zooms. And I actually liked hearing him say this because I have the same philosophy.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:19]: He's like, why do people insist that they have to see your face on a Zoom call? Why couldn't your phone be in your pocket and you're out doing your Zoom call with your phone in your pocket, fully present still, albeit, or arguably the other, a word, arguably more present based on what I'm about to tell you. And you know, we live in this era where you gotta be parked in front of the computer staring at the camera. And I realize that sometimes it can make a more personal connection when you have the video on. But even most of the health consults, my calls with clients, my calls with my teams, et cetera, I call me old school, I don't know what it is, but I just like to be active and standing and walking around and phone and pocket and I just don't like to be sitting there hunched over the computer on a phone call. And yeah, you could put your phone in video mode and like hold it on a selfie stick or in your hand while you're walking around, you know, bouncing around. But you know, long term you're probably gonna get shoulder tendinitis and carpal tunnel syndrome holding, you know, your quarter pound iPhone up while you're walking everywhere. Anyways, though. So why walk? Well, a meta analysis published in the British Medical Public Health journal studied or reviewed 13 studies with several hundred participants.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:35]: And of course no surprises here. They found a significant increase in energy expenditure, total daily energy expenditure in people who walked during a day of work versus sitting or even standing. Right? Like standing trumps sitting for increasing metabolic rate and fat oxidation. Walking trumps standing for increasing metabolic rate and fat oxidation. And I think its fine to kind of go back and forth between all three during the day, but when you combine that with the fact that this is also fleshed out in the research, your non-exercise activity thermogenesis, also known as neat in exercise physiology, burns more calories overall long term over the course of the week than any workouts that you do, that kind of makes sense, right? Because if I eat a cookie after dinner and I want to exercise off that cookie, I have to go on about a 1 hour walk to burn that, let's say 350 calorie cookie. But if I'm miLDLy physically active during the day, standing, walking, taking little Pomodoro breaks like I, you know, my sons are homeschooled and, you know, every half hour I have them, or advise them at least to stop and do jumping jacks and some push ups here and there, you can increase your calorie burn by around 100 extra calories every hour. And if we're looking at just like the average ten hour a day, well, there's a thousand calories right there that you've burnt, thus earning yourself at least three of those 350 calorie cookies if you're one of those people who eats the train and trains to eat. But anyways, so energy expenditure goes up.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:06]: Another study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine had people measure their energy expenditure while working, or they measured their energy expenditure while working. The researchers did, and what happened was in just 20 minutes, their energy expenditure increased from 72 calories. Just basic energy burn to sustain life, breathing, reading emails, watching mindless videos on social media, et cetera. They were burning 72 calories per hour when they started walking at a very slow, slow speed, 0.4 mph. Folks, that is not that fast. 0.4 mph mean, if you think about that, that would mean if you were to head out for a walk right now and you were to walk for a full hour covering 0.4 miles. Think about that. That's not that fast.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:59]: Well, their metabolic rate increased to 191 calories. So every hour they were burning more than 100 extra calories. And so the researchers concluded in that paper that walking while working 2 to 3 hours a day could increase. And this was a british. So I'm going to use the non freedom units, 20 to 30 kg within a year, 20 to 30 kg within a year. I don't know how many stones that is, nor am I positioned right now because I don't have a calculator in front of me to do the rough math. But I mean, we're talking like, what, over 40 pounds in a year of weight loss, just by walking a couple hours, not the whole workday, but a couple hours during the work day. And then we look at the cognitive benefits, right? There was one study published in the Journal Comprehensive Physiology, and I'll quote what it says to you.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:45]: Aerobic fitness spares age related loss of brain tissue during aging and enhances functional aspects of higher order regions involved in the control of cognition. More active or higher fit individuals are capable of allocating greater attentional resources toward the environment and are able to process information more quickly. So this is probably because walking, moving has been shown to increase what is called brain derived neurotrophic factor BDNF, which I like to refer to as miracle grow for your brain. Just a brisk walk, short walk, ten minutes can significantly increase BDNF, which then can increase your focus and your cognition. And again, like when I'm recording a podcast with one of these super smart cookies, like these physiologists and scientists who I need to interview, I can keep up with them way better. When I'm walking on my treadmill versus when I'm sitting, my brain is more turned on. I mean, try it sometime.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:43]: Next time you have some high pressure phone call, you know, try it and see how it affects your brain. I think it helps a ton. I think you can make a pretty strong case for walking, treadmills being good expense for a business. Maybe you'll try this out and you'll trip and fall and you'll lose that high pressure job that you were applying for. I don't know. But exercise does improve cognitive function acutely while you're doing it. And long term through epigenetics. Epigenetics is how cells control gene activity without controlling the DNA sequence.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:16]: I'll say that again. It's how cells control gene activity without changing your actual base DNA sequence. In other words, exercise turns on genes, and it specifically turns on genes. And this is based on a study in the Journal Frontiers of Psychology that results in better cognitive health. In addition to that, that same exercise increases gray matter volume in the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus of the brain. The same stuff that you're shrinking when you're smoking weed while you can grow it back when you're walking. I don't know what I just made an argument for there, but I think it was smoke weed at night, walk during the day, something like that. Anyways, when you are increasing higher gray matter volume or when you're, when you're making higher amounts of gray matter volume in the prefrontal cortex and the hippocampus of the brain, that is very effective for preventing cognitive impairment and any other behavioral problems that might be associated with brain atrophy.

Ben Greenfield [00:12:16]: And yes, I'm joking, don't, you know, smoke weed and then go walking the next day to grow your brain back after smoking weed? It doesn't quite work like that, but when you are moving during the day, you are able to stay more focused. You're inducing epigenetic changes that stave off cognitive impairment long term, you're burning more fat, you're burning a significantly greater number of calories. What's interesting also is you are increasing the number of ketone bodies in your bloodstream now, particularly one called beta hydroxybutyrate, which also increases BDNF levels. So go to Amazon, do a type e search. I guess it's past prime day for treadmill walking desk. You can get tiny ones for your office that are manual, that are inexpensive, that are like 300, $400 that aren't even motorized. Mine is admittedly kind of expensive. I use this one Walkolution.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:11]: It's like the word walk plus o-l-u-t-i-o-n. I'll put a link in the show notes, but it I can run, I can sprint on it, and it's got foam, a foam belt, so that my feet are getting strong and supple and spread. My toes are spread while I'm walking on it. And it's whisper quiet so I can do calls on it without annoying people. And again, like if I want to go on a run on it, I can go on a run on it. I'm even crazy. It's got a bar on it, and I'll sometimes stop and do dips. So my goal, if I've got 8 hours and I'm locked away in my office, is to walk out of the office and have the option, not the necessity, to go to the gym or go play some tennis or go on a hike, because I'm just so cooped up.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:54]: I move a lot in the office. So let's get this podcast over with so I can move. No, I'm joking. This is fun stuff. I love sharing this stuff with you guys. So let's keep going. Let's get into this big book I have on my desk and why I brought this big book into the podcast recording today. This book is called The Longevity Leap.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:15]: Huge thanks to my friend Siim Land. Smart dude. A guide to slowing down aging and adding healthy years to your lIfe. Well, the first chapter I read was chapter 18, which is all about coronary artery calcification and heart disease. Because probably from 20 years of doing hardcore endurance exercise, I have a little bit of coronary artery calcification myself. So I'm constantly looking at ways to reduce that. And the reason also that I flipped to that section in Siim's book is because of this new paper that came out called the LDL cumulative exposure hypothesis. Evidence and practical applications.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:52]: So the cumulative exposure hypothesis, what is that exactly? So what this was was, it was a recent review published in the Journal Nature Reviews Cardiology, in which the group of authors reviewed the low density lipoprotein, the LDL that could build up in the artery walls, and the cumulative exposure hypothesis, which I'll explain briefly, and the implications for that related to cardiovascular disease caused by the buildup of plaque in the arteries, which is one of the leading causes of morbidity and mortality worldwide. So the way that this works is that that plaque is caused by the progressive trapping of the cholesterol carrying LDL and other apolipoproteins, like apple B. You've probably heard of that one. That's also problematic within the arterial wall. So over time, as more and more LDL particles become trapped, atherosclerotic plaques grow, and that increases your risk of having a cardiovascular event, especially if that plaque is growing in certain regions. And I'll tell you how you can test which regions it's growing in and whether it's stable or unstable here momentarily. So that's why there's an argument that maintaining low levels, or at least stabilized or low to medium levels of LDL over time could reduce the potential for these atherogenic lipoproteins, including LDL, that promote the formation of fatty deposits in the artery. The idea here with the cumulative exposure hypothesis is that the amount of the plaque burden and the different things that are leading up to that plaque burden accumulating can cause, over time, arterial wall injury that eventually creates a plaque burden that puts you at high risk for having a heart attack.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:45]: My wife hates it when I use this word for guys, a widowmaker. And I only use that word because I actually have the majority of my own plaque buildup in part of my heart called the LVA, which is the widowmaker, or would cause a widowmaker if it were to be an issue. So what did this review found? Well, it's probably going to be shocking to you, but I basically, this long term arterial wall damage accumulates with the following: long term high blood pressure. Okay, so take your magnesium, do your breath work, do some sauna, you know, increase your levels of nitric oxide, including avoiding mouthwash and fluoridated toothpaste, which decrease the bacteria in your mouth that help to convert nitrates and food in the nitric oxide. Move, exercise, etcetera. Live a low stress lifestyle. Blood sugar dysregulation, that was also a biggie. No surprises there.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:42]: Smoking and vaping. Back to the weed thing. Smoking and vaping. This is why I'm very concerned when I see, like 13-year-old kids vaping now, nicotine and other people vaping, many other compounds leading, leading cause of plaque formation or one of the leading causes weight gain, poor blood clotting mechanisms. Which is interesting because in a Westernized diet, we eat a lot less vitamin K than you might have seen in a more natural, say ancestral diet. We eat a lot less fermented foods, grass-fed butter, fermented dairy. You don't have to eat all those things. You don't have to have a neighbor with a goat and go out and do the raw goat and churn it in your kitchen with your sleeves rolled up and then ferment it on the countertop and then try to get to work.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:27]: You can just take a vitamin K supplement and then finally consuming oxidized oils. I know a lot of people say seed oils are not a problem, but this study showed oxidized oils were one of the issues. So its pretty obvious what the fix is, right? Control blood pressure, control blood sugar, avoid smoking and vaping, maintain stabilized weight, use things that help to support proper blood clotting like vitamin K. And I would also say nattokinase would also be way up there. Look into that one if you havent yet, and youre concerned about plaque. And be careful what kind of oils that you're using. So why this book? Well, chapter 18, coronary artery calcification in heart disease had a few interesting things in it. So, first of all, you can test for the amount of coronary artery calcification that you have.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:13]: It's called a CAC score. This would be the normal calcium scan score that your doctor might order. It's a CT scan. The problem is, and I'm going to read this right out of Sims book, a 2020 study found that of 1741 patients with a CAC score of zero, meaning doctor says, yo, you're okay, checks out just fine. 6% had non-calcified plaque and 4% had calcified plaque detected with what's called a computed tomography angiography, or CCTA. Those of you who've been listening to the podcast for a while may have heard me talk about how the type of heart scan I got when I discovered that I had plaque, even though my calcium wasn't that bad, my calcium scan score wasn't that bad was called a Cleerly, spelled with two e's. Cleerly CT Angiography. That's the one that really shows you how much plaque that you have and where the plaque resides.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:05]: Problem is, that test also comes with a massive dose of radiation. So, a, don't get it too often. B, take a bunch of potassium iodide after you take it like 130 or 140 mg of potassium iodide has been shown to reduce the cumulative damage of radiation. Take it for about two weeks after you get a test, and don't do the test that often. Well, if you can't do the test that often, how do you keep track of plaque efficiently? There's another book called Prevention Myths. I'm going to interview the author pretty soon, but they talk about what's called a CIMT, carotid intima media thickness score, where you can do an ultrasound of the neck and get a pretty decent idea of what a CT angiography would tell you with a non-invasive, non radiation involved ultrasound of the neck. There's a website where you can find some practitioners around the US. It's called Vasolabs.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:57]: Vasolabs.com. and so anyways, what I'm getting at here is that you got to measure for the plaque. And then I also thought it was interesting sim list the things in addition to what I just told you. This book is very research based. That's why it's like frickin it's not as big as my book, but it's pretty big. So anyways, here is what's seamless for the things that increase coronary artery calcification. Hypertension. We already covered that.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:24]: Diabetes, that would be the blood sugar dysregulation. Smoking, we covered that. Obesity, we covered that. Visceral adiposity, that's an interesting one. That would be where the actual fat resides. This is something you measure. You may have heard of this before. It's called a DEXA scan, kind of measures where the fat is, and the visceral fat is the one that's most associated with this coronary artery calcification.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:42]: Higher HbA1c levels, that's kind of synonymous to the blood sugar dysregulation issues. Higher ApoB levels. And interestingly, by the way, I think one of the best ways, if you can get your doctor to write a script for it, to decrease ApoB levels in addition to just some of the basic lifestyle measurements, you know, like not eating too much food or too much sugar or too much vegetable oils, is a PCSK9 inhibitor. I'm on one. It has dropped my ApoB levels, it has dropped my lp levels, it's dropped my small LDL particle levels. Twice a month I do an injection. I use one called repatha. Super simple, pretty safe.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:22]: What else? Kidney issues? Fatty liver disease. We'll talk about that momentarily, because I'm going to tell you whether you should juice or blend fruits. And that's related to fatty liver disease. A low HDL, sleeping less than 5 hours a night. Anybody? Chronological age? Well, thank you. As you get older, your risk increases. That's not surprising. Very high phosphorus levels.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:47]: That's interesting. High amounts of too much vigorous exercise. Guilty as charge. I did that for a long time. Low magnesium intake. And that's because magnesium helped to balance the calcium that could get pulled into the arteries. That's important. Like taking a magnesium supplement before you go to bed at night. Taking anabolic steroids.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:05]: Not that any of my listeners do that. And heightened cortisol reactivity to stress. Heightened cortisol reactivity to stress. The chapter in this book related to calcification is like 20 pages long. But it's interesting because it even says, I have an underline here: One of the causes of hypercalcemia promoting calcification is low magnesium status. And in addition, cheese consumption has been seen to be associated with lower odds of calcification, because guess what? Cheese has a high amount of vitamin K2, which helps to stabilize those clotting factors.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:36]: And hey, natto. Nattokinase. You may have heard of natto, the Japanese fermented soybean dish that's very rich in k two. But one of the enzymes in natto called nattokinase also has an effect on coronary artery calcification. So, you know, after I read this chapter, I thought, gosh, I used to have natto. I used to, like, order it and make it. I needed to start doing that again. I got into it when I used to race triathlons in Japan, which is probably how I got all this plaque.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:01]: And so natto, chalk one up to that. So anyways, that's what I wanted to tell you about this study and what it kind of got me thinking about when it comes to the things we need to think about if we want to take care of our tickers over time. So hopefully that was interesting and informative for you. And you can check out Siim's book. I'll link to it in the show notes. Go to bengreenfieldlife.com/477. I don't even know if it's out yet. Sometimes these books say for early release or early author release and they're ugly and they have typos in them and the graphics are kind of crappy.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:31]: But this one looks pretty complete. I think it is for sale already. Another, another new study. This one was kind of cool. So a lot of people have been, I don't know why, in the health sector you might not have heard about this, it's kind of one of those fringe things. But a lot of people have been saying, olive oil is bad for you. It's just as bad as oxidized fat. Same, same thing people say about fish oil sometimes.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:54]: And yeah, I'll admit, if you leave your olive oil out in the refrigerator, in the cupboard next to the oven, on the sunlight, it's getting heated and oxidized all the time. It's in a clear plastic bottle. Yeah, it could be bad for you. Same thing if you heat up your fish oil or let it sit on the porch for three days in the hot summer when it got delivered to your home by Amazon. Or they didn't package the fish oil properly, and the fish oil capsule has a lot of oxygen or light or heat that's been introduced to it. Yeah, fish oil could also be bad for you. But I think you can make a case for healthy olive oil and healthy fish oil. So this was a prospective cohort study in Italy where they showed that a high intake of olive oil was associated with a lower risk of all cause mortality and the risk of death from cancer and cardiovascular disease.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:39]: There's that biohacker, Brian Johnson, who's trying to live forever. He sells olive oil now. He might be onto something. I haven't bought his olive oil. I think he actually calls it snake oil or something like that. I think he's starting to be funny. But in his defense, not only did this study show a reduced all-cause mortality and reduced cancer mortality, and reduced cardiovascular disease mortality, and just about any other mortality. I was gonna say that word again, mortality, but there was a dose response effect.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:09]: Meaning at 30 grams of olive oil per day, you had the lowest all-cause risk. 30 grams might sound like a lot of olive oil, but that's like a shot glass, right? That's like putting half a shot glass on your salad at lunch and half a shot glass on your salad at dinner, or dropping a full shot glass in your morning smoothie, which I've done before. It's not that bad, actually. So olive oil consumption seems to be really highly protective. Now. This is probably because olive oil can improve blood lipid levels. It's got about, depending on the olive oil, 65% to 80% monounsaturated fat. Its relatively low in saturated fatty acids and polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:51]: So it could reduce a little bit of that LDL. Again, dont take this to mean that I think that getting your LDL as low as possible is good, but controlling it, I think, is a good idea, especially based on what weve been talking about regarding plaque. But in addition to that, theres a lot of polyphenols and flavanols, good olive oil. And those can do things like increase nitric oxide levels, thereby promoting vasodilation and helping to control blood sugar. There's also evidence that olive oil can reduce insulin resistance and fasting insulin levels, and so it can help out with controlling blood sugar. And then I dug into some of the other more recent studies on olive oil, and I'll link to these in the show notes. But one looked at the anti-atherogenic effect of olive oil. Exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:39]: All those things that we were just talking, talking about. And there are specific polyphenols and something called alpha-tocopherol in olive oil that can assist with staving off the onset or the progression of atherosclerosis. In addition, atherosclerosis is characterized by chronic, low grade inflammation. That's one of the reasons that the plaque can build up and that the damage can occur. And the cardioprotective effects of extra virgin olive oil are mostly attributable to its high content of polyphenol molecules. Now, here's what's important for you to know after learning all that. Olive oil has to pass the cough test, really, for you to know that it's got the amount of flavanols and polyphenols in it that you're looking for. I had a whole podcast about this.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:30]: I'll link to it in the show notes with this guy named TJ Murphy, and he said there's a pretty good chance most of us are buying fake olive oil. In the US, there's an estimation that a whopping 80% of all extra virgin olive oil on the market today is fraudulent, meaning it's cut. They cut the pure pressed olive oil with cheap royals like soybean, and sometimes manufacture a totally fake product by combining vegetable oils with dyes and artificial flavorings, slapping a label on it, and calling it olive oil. Those bastards. And then you might have good olive oil, but it's bottled in plastic and left in the heat and past its expiration date on the grocery store shelf. So you're getting oxidized fats. So why do I say the cough test? Because if you take a little bit of olive oil and you drink it and it hits the back of your throat and you cough, that spicy cough reflex is often a sign of the high polyphenol and flavonol content. Good extra virgin olive oil is not only supposed to be a little bit spicy and have a little bit of a kick to it, but it should also be stored in glass bottles that you can't see through grass, you know, opaque, non transparent, translucent, whatever you want to call it.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:43]: That's the type of olive oil that you need to get. And you can find olive oils like that. Thrive market. They do a good job. It's a good place to order olive oil. Primal kitchen, they've got good olive oil. Call me a crazy, highfalutin rich, Westernized olive oil snob, but I actually am part of an olive oil club, meaning I get four, no, three bottles of olive oil delivered to my house every quarter from a different area of the world. I interviewed the guy that runs that club and it's incredible.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:14]: It's great olive oil. I usually run out of it before, you know, three months is up, so I got to order more. But ultimately, if, if you are able to take a shot of really good, high quality, extra virgin olive oil per day, you could make a case that you're doing some, some really good, really good favors for reducing not just risk of cardiovascular disease and atherosclerosis, but all-cause mortality. So yay, yay, spicy pizza. Okay, so let's keep talking about food. I hope. Hopefully I'm not making you too hungry here. Shout out to my friend and former podcast guest Dr. Louisa Nicola for alerting me to something that was new to me.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:56]: I've always kind of said and thought that if you juice fruits and you blend fruits, that the glycemic index goes up and it raises your blood sugar higher than if you ate them whole. Based on the idea that if you eat them whole, you're eating them more slowly, they have more water content, they have more fiber, which is a silly idea, especially when it comes to blending versus eating, because blending has just as much fiber blended for you and, you know, same for fruit juice, right? It's going to increase your glycemic index and make it more sweet. Well, there is a great newsletter I subscribed to from Alan Argonne called Alan Argonne's Research Review. And Louisa wrote a great paper in there about the fact that these are actually myths. So first of all, blending your fruits not only does not make them raise the glycemic index, raise the blood sugar and cause blood sugar dysregulation, but it actually, because the blender does a better job than your teeth in your mouth do at blending and chewing and grinding up all the seeds and the skins and whatever else is in that fruit or berry that you're consuming. It's actually got a lower glycemic index when you blend your fruit and you liberate more antioxidants, more flavanols, more polyphenols, more seed components, et cetera, than your teeth do. So if you've been chewing your fruit or avoiding blending fruit because you think it's going to raise your blood sugar, that's actually not true. And this isn't just like Louisa saying it.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:31]: I went and looked at all the studies. I'll put links to them in the show notes, and it turns out that blending is not bad for your blood sugar. Well, of course, juicing must be, right, because you're getting rid of all the seeds and the skin and a lot of these components that you would think would cause the sugar to be released more slowly. But that's also not true. They've done studies looking at the effects of consuming 100% fruit juice on glycemic control. Not only have they found that regular consumption of 100% fruit juice is not associated with increased risk of diabetes, but it has a neutral effect on glycemic control. Meaning if you measure fasting glucose, hemoglobin A1C, which is a three month snapshot of your glucose fasting insulin, a measurement called HOMA-IR, basically neutral effects and lack of potential for increasing diabetes risk. Now, it's important, and Louisa also points this out, it's important to differentiate between 100% fruit juice.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:33]: And youve seen this before, the fruit flavored beverages, right? Like the hi-C pouches that your kids getting out of the soccer game that contain sometimes no fruit or trace amounts, added sugar, high fructose corn syrup, you know, added ingredients, you know, etcetera, like those you would want to worry about, like fake fruit juice. But just like drinking fruit juice and blending your fruits, not a problem. With a caveat, remember how I mentioned non alcoholic fatty liver disease? Well, well, fructose is interesting in this respect. Fructose actually is something that is processed a little bit differently than glucose. So hear me out on this. I won't go super deep into the science, I promise, but just enough so you understand this. And so you're not eating twelve apples. Fructose is metabolized primarily in the liver.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:23]: Glucose is metabolized throughout the body. Excess fructose can slightly lower metabolic rate and reduce calorie burning. And that can occur, in addition to that, excess fructose having a higher potential to raise your triglycerides. If you're in a state of caloric excess, meaning once your liver glycogen stores are full and once your muscle glycogen stores are full, excess fructose is very easily stored, especially as visceral fat, which we've already established is bad news bears. So you could, in somebody who is burning 2000 calories per day between exercise and their metabolic rate, feed that person through a helmet with two straws on it and two bottles of coke on top of the helmet, 2000 calories of coke a day, and they're not going to gain weight. They're not going to, like, get poisoned by fructose. There's not going to be that nutrient dense.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:22]: And I guess maybe there's some other things in the coke, like colors or additives that could cause issues, but the fructose is not going to be a problem at all. Same thing with fruit juice, right? I could, you know, sit your butt down and just mainline apple juice and pear juice and berry juice and mango juice and pineapple juice into you all day long. And until I get so much juice into you that I've put more calories of juice into you than the total number of calories that you're burning, the fructose isn't an issue. The problem with fructose and why it's gotten such a bad rabbit, especially from soda, for example, is that most people are not at a caloric deficit. And many people who are not at a caloric deficit are also consuming a high amount of fruits, fruit juices, processed foods with added fructose in them, high fructose corn syrup, etcetera. But I act on stuff like this. I started adding a giant handful of blueberries to my morning smoothie after reading Louisa's article and going into the studies and realizing, oh, she's right, this isn't going to have an impact at all on my blood sugar levels. I mean, I could probably also have a cup of pineapple juice right next to it and it wouldn't also have an impact.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:35]: So, I mean, granted, it will shift your, I'll get a little bit scientific here. It will shift your RQ higher, meaning eating a lot of fructose or any sugar in the morning or any other time of day is going to shift your body into a state of slightly higher carbohydrate oxidation, the fat oxidation. And if youre trying to train your body how to burn fats and how to be less reliant on sugars as a fuel, that could be a problem. But for most active people like me, after I've done like an hour of kettlebells and cold bath and sauna and all that jazz in the morning. A handful of blueberries in my morning smoothie. Well, I'm getting pretty orthorexic if I'm concerned about what that might do to my ability to burn fat the rest of the day. Yeah, I don't have a loaf of bread with lunch and you know, a 24-ounce or juice next to my smoothie but I think tossing you can make a pretty good case for tossing some of those berries into your smoothie because it appears the blender is making them healthier than your darn mouth. So yay for science.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:30]: All right, so also a yay for science. Here we go. The French will be happy about this. Up to 2-3 glasses of wine per day has been shown in a new study to be protective against cognitive decline. This was a systematic review and meta analysis to examine evidence on the association between wine consumption and cognitive decline and to analyze whether there was any link. This search retrieved 6,055 articles and they included 16 in the systematic Review. They included twelve in the meta analysis. These were articles published between 1997 and 2019 across 19 different countries, probably including France, and this showed a protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:22]: A protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline well, that's interesting because if you actually look at other systematic reviews and meta analysis, you'll see repeatedly that that comes up daily. Low quantity drinking this was a cohort study on alcohol and dementia risk was associated with lower dementia risk compared to infrequent higher quantity drinking. Right. So glass of wine with dinner every night like I often do, versus binging on the weekend. The former actually bees. The former bees pretty good for your brain. Former actually appears to be pretty good for your brain. Research on wine and cognitive function another study called the Paquid study. Paquid study, P-a-q-u-i-d, showed that drinking between about half to a full glass of wine per day was associated with significantly lower risk of Alzheimer's disease compared to not heavy drinkers, but compared to non drinkers.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:18]: Making a case that when it comes to brain health, having a little bit of alcohol on a regular basis without binging could be better for you than not drinking at all. And I'm not going to spend too much time on this because I did like an hour long podcast a few months ago. I'll link to it in the show notes. Making a case that small amounts of alcohol consumed regularly without binging is pretty good for you, not only for the reasons I just mentioned, because of its effects on cognitive health, but also because it sparks the production of endogenous antioxidants like, say, superoxide dismutase or glutathione peroxidase. And so, yeah, I drink a little bit. I drink maybe four or five days a week. I honestly don't drink as much when I travel. So sometimes I won't drink for two weeks and come home and have a class of wine every night with my wife for a week and haven't been drunk in 15 years.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:07]: And I feel like that's a pretty healthy way to drink. Pay attention to the quality. You know, just like the fruit juice, you know, hi-C pouches are different than fresh pineapple juice. And, you know, a big California cab full of 72 plus different herbicides and pesticides and sulfite is different than that nice New Zealand or France or Italian biodynamically farmed wine with a high amount of antioxidants and a low amount of sugar, low amount of antioxidant or low amount of pesticides and herbicides. So don't laugh, but I'm also part of a wine club. Yes, I am part of an olive oil club and I'm part of a wine club. The olive oil club is called the Fresh Pressed Olive Oil Club. Three bottles of olive oil once every three months.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:45]: Want to say three? Yeah, once every quarter is. No, I'm sorry, four months. A quarter is four months to your math, Ben. And then I get six bottles of wine a month from Dry Farm Wines. I do not drink six bottles of wine a month. I probably personally drink two bottles of wine per month, I would say. And my wife probably drinks two bottles of wine per month. And then between the dinner parties that we throw, all that wine is usually gone at least five or six days before the next box arrives.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:14]: And so we just drown ourselves in tequila as we wait for that next box of wine to arrive. Anyways, though, folks, alcohol, despite it being controversial and despite you needing to tackle this on a case by case basis, depending on your own social, familial, emotional, psychological and physical history with alcohol, you don't need to be afraid of it when it comes to damaging your brain, especially when it comes to microdosing in small amounts. Something else that kind of backs up what I'm saying was a really kind of cool summary of a case control study in Chinese older adults. They were looking at what kind of things you do in your life could increase your odds of becoming a centenarian, someone who has reached the age of 100. And they studied a lot of adults, a lot of old Chinese people, 5,222 older adults with an average age of 94. This is a prospective case control study that they did over a long period of time. They're using data from what's called the Chinese Longitudinal Healthy Longevity Survey, and they looked at dietary diversity and speak of the devil, alcohol consumption and exercise and BMI and smoking. And then they did a follow up over several years and they found that the people with a few specific lifestyle components had a 33% higher odds percentage of.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:47]: I think that was redundant what I just said. But anyways, they had a pretty fricking big chance of becoming a centenarian. So what were these things that were the most important? Never smoking. Okay, never smoking. So I don't think there's a hormetic effect of smoking like there is with alcohol. Exercising regularly. Greater dietary diversity. Heads up to those of you who, every salad, every day is a cucumber, a tomato and some lettuce, branch out kohlrabi and sauerkraut and kimchi and turmeric and ginger and garlic and red onion and go ape nuts on those salads.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:23]: Folks. Eat a wide variety foods. Dietary diversity. Don't just eat rib eye steaks. Eat liver and heart and kidney and pancreas and chicken and gizzards and tongue. Alright? Don't just have a blueberry smoothie. Have a raspberry and a black rasp smoothie and a lingonberry smoothie and a cloudberry smoothie and a little orange one from Finland. What's it called? Now? I'm gonna blank on it. It's fantastic.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:49]: I'll remember it later. Anyways, you get what I'm saying? Dietary diversity. Eat a wide variety of really good, healthy foods close to, to nature. Um, I think I just may have pissed off some carnivore diet people, but that's okay. Uh, and then, um, there was no association detected. This is interesting for alcohol consumption. Hmm, kind of interesting, especially based on what I just told you. And BMI.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:12]: And that's interesting too, because BMI, like, if you have a high muscle mass percentage, which some of these people probably did if they were exercising regularly, it's not as accurate like you'll be. You'll have a high BMI sometimes and it's just muscle. So turns out the most important things to pay attention to, based on a really big, long, long study in China, Chinese people who lived a really long time over the age of 100 was don't smoke, exercise regularly, eat a wide variety of foods. It's kind of interesting. They didn't get into like social life and community because you hear about how important that is and maybe they just didn't look at it in this study, but I would have a hunch that that's pretty important, too. I'll put a link to the whole study in the show notes if you want to read it, but, you know, maybe not want to smoke, continue to exercise frequently, to not be afraid of alcohol, to maintain muscle, and to continue to eat omnivorously with a lot of different things in my diet. Honestly, here's my tip for you. If you're weird like me, I always have a book next to my bed that doesn't make me think about like, business and self-improvement, and all the things that might stress me out before bed.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:23]: One of the most common books you will find at my bedside is cookbooks. I read cookbooks and I read them with a little pencil or pen. And I'll like circle and underline and fold over pages and then at least once or twice a month. And those of you who follow me on Instagram sometimes see this fleshed out. I cook something new, and as a result of that, I'm also usually trying out new food ingredients. My next big one coming up, which I'm already ordering prosecco and preparing to make foie gras and getting my loin for, not my loin, but like tender loin from a cow. My loins will be ready too, though, and phyllo dough with real butter. I'm going to make beef Wellington at the end of this month.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:02]: See? So you learn cool stuff and I yes, I read myself to sleep with cookbooks. So we have time for a couple quick questions here as we approach the latter parts of today's Q&A. Brady oh, and by the way, if you want to ask a question, go to bengreenfieldlife.com/477. I think there's a place in the show notes where you click to ask a question. I should know this, but I'm pretty sure it's there. Okay. Brady says: my wife is having a baby. Congratulations Brady.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:34]: August 15th and I have a 70.3. Those who don't know what that is, it's a half Ironman because 70.3 km is half of 140.6. Any tips on how to train while also tending to your wife, child and also trying to sleep in? Well, this is how I quit my job. No, seriously, this is how I quit my job. I was a personal trainer. I'm going to do the super quick story for you. I was a personal trainer. I had a couple of gyms.

Ben Greenfield [00:47:08]: This was 17 years ago, I was training clients. I was. I was super successful. I was like the guy that all the doctors and the local medical community would send their patients to. I was the person you came to when nothing else was working to lose weight. I trained all the, like, big name marathoners and triathletes and swimmers in the local city, an awesome gym. I was really expensive. I just.

Ben Greenfield [00:47:35]: I applied all of my love for intellectual firepower and science into designing the programs for my clients. And because I partnered up with people in the medical community, I had access to, like, the best of the best medical equipment to test their blood and dial in their diets. And I was pretty good at what I did. And in 2008, I was voted as America's top personal trainer. So then I started traveling, and because I was on the cover of all these fitness magazines and fitness business magazines and personal trainer magazines, I got invited all these conferences to go and speak, and I was on planes all the time and then training clients, and my wife became pregnant with twin boys. And at the same time I was doing all this, I was racing Ironman triathlons, like, a lot. Like, I was racing for different organizations that would sponsor me. And I was pretty fast and I would win races and podium, and I was an age grouper, right, not a pro, which is a little different, but I was pretty good.

Ben Greenfield [00:48:35]: And I had a special way that I trained to allow me to be that fast to qualify for Kona Ironman every year. And my entire first book, my New York Times bestselling book called Beyond Training, was all about this way that I would train. And it was all based on two different ways to increase your aerobic endurance. The idea is that there's two different pathways to trigger mitochondrial density, and one pathway that promotes favorable endurance adaptations is called the PGC-1 alpha pathway. Do you know what that stands for? Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ co-activator 1α. PGC-1 alpha pathway that can cause an increase in mitochondrial density and oxidative enzyme activity, and it can act separately than a different pathway. So the way that you activate the PGC-1 alpha pathway is with continuous voluminous endurance training that takes a really long time and has you training like 20, 25, 30 hours per week. It's got a lower risk of injury.

Ben Greenfield [00:49:45]: It's how a lot of the pros train, and it involves about 80% of your time spent training aerobically and about 20% of your time spent training anaerobically. You can also trigger those same enzymes via what's called the calcium calmodulin kinase pathway, the CaMK pathway, or the adenosine monophosphate kinase pathway. And this is done with high intensity interval training, very short bouts of exercise, really hard-fasted morning fat burning sessions, etcetera. So it's kind of like two different ways to build endurance. Obviously the disadvantage of the latter approach is it hurts like hell cause you're going balls to the wall a lot even though it's over more quickly and there's a higher risk for injury. But it's a time hack, right? So when my friends would swim 4000 meters in the pool, I would get in and I would swim 10 by 100 all out with short rest periods of like 30 seconds in between. And then I will be out of the pool and out starting my bike workout while everybody else still had 40 minutes left in the pool. And I would do my long marathon runs in about 75 to 90 minutes with just, it would be like, I would literally like load up music tracks onto my music player and do like a 4-minute track that was hard and a four minute track that was easy and just two intervals for the whole frickin run.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:03]: And even my bike rides were like, you know, just besides one really long ride I would go on four weeks before race day. They were all short and intense. In addition to that, much of my training involved loaded training because I had twins, right? Double jogging, stroller, bike trailer. And this was later on after the story I'm about to tell you. So I would just do workouts with the kids all the time, go on fitness walks with them on my back, dropping and doing push ups, carrying them, climbing fences. So I incorporated my kids quite a bit in the workouts, but I also did really high intensity interval training that got me in and out of the gym and out of the session in a short period of time. And that's what my entire book beyond training is about. And the reason I said that got me wealthy or helped me quit my job is when I was traveling around all these conferences, I didn't know anything about Internet marketing or affiliate campaigns or launching products online.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:58]: And when I was at one of these conferences, I listened to this guy on stage talk about how to make an information product, like how to package up all the ideas inside your head and then sell it online as downloadable videos and PDF's and probably the type of thing you, if you're listening and if you ever bought a course online, that's what that is. But I was just total analog, right? Like I just trained people face to face in the gym. So after I left that one conference where I was speaking about, like, how to make money with gyms and this guy was speaking about how to make money with information products, I thought, what the heck? I'm going to try this out. So I spent like seven months. I'd get home from the gym at like around 8 or 9 p.m. i'd have a quick dinner with my wife. Then I'd just lock myself away in my office till like 2 a.m. just work on this program.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:41]: And so, long story short, as I launched it, it went really well. It made a decent amount of money. And I realized, hey, you know what? I'm going to have twin sons in like three months. I could be at home writing, podcasting, blogging, doing some online coaching and consults, doing a lot more, frankly, what I do now, and because I wanted to be kind of a present stay-at-home father, I decided to close the chapter of my life that was training people one on one in a gym. And I started doing a lot more of what I do now. But my very first program I created was like, how to do an Ironman. I even my tagline, my copywriting was like, cross an Ironman finish line with a big smile on your face and half the time of your friends who don't have time left over for their friends and their family and their social life.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:29]: And anyways, it was called the Triathlon Dominator. I actually haven't checked. Well, I think you can still get it at, it's probably triathlondominator.com. it's like old, but it would still work. And then, like, make your kids as much of a part of the workout as you can. Anyways, though, you say, any tips on how to train while tending to your wife, child and also trying to sleep in? Trying to get to sleep in. Don't worry about the sleeping in part, because that ain't gonna happen, bro. You have made the life decision to do a half Ironman with a newborn child.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:04]: And if you value your relationship with your wife, you're going to be doing it on short sleep. Don't worry, you'll survive. I did it. You just do really hard workouts. You recover really well. You make them short, you make them punchy. You trust the process that your body can build endurance in two different ways. You go out there and you race and you take care of your wife, and you make that little baby a part of the workouts by putting them in, you know, strollers and trailers and, and, um, you know, let your wife go out to dinner or out shopping while you do your long bike ride in the living room with the stroller or the, the crib next to you as you take care of the kid, you do a lot of treadmill runs.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:43]: Again, you're babysitting while your wife gets some free time, and maybe if you do enough babysitting while your wife gets some free time, she'll let you sleep every now and again. Uh, but, uh, yeah, prioritize your wife and your kid, dude, the race isn't that important, but you can do it. I did, I raced, you know, with newborns, I, and all the way up until my kids were six years old, I qualified for Ironman every year and I still got a lot of quality family time in. So, last question is from Glenn, who says at age 69, is high intensity interval training with body weight and vigorous walking enough? Well, that's an interesting question. You may have heard me interview the Turner twins, these guys who were identical twins, and they compare how one twin responded to body weight exercises while the other twin did the same number of weeks and exercises, but weighted. And they both had pretty similar results. But if you look at the research specifically, and I'll link to that episode with the Turner twins in the show notes, it was actually a pretty entertaining one because they also compared like vegan versus on omnivore. And I forget the other experiments that they did.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:49]: It was interesting. So this has been studied. There was a study that was published in the Journal of Aging Research and this was in seniors, and they found that if you look at resistance training and body weight training, it's a combination of both that results in the most significant benefits for muscle mass, strength and functional performance in older adults. You also have to consider the fact that weight training is more highly associated with improvement of bone density, improvement of insulin sensitivity. Probably because as Doctor Gabriel Lyons talks and writes about muscles, kind of like a metabolic sync for glucose, and you can build more of it. With weight training versus bodyweight exercises, you could make a case, if you're doing really, really high weight body weight exercises, you might be able to keep up, but usually not. Weighted exercises help to build more stability, often more balance. But to tell you the truth, if you look at the actual research, if you weight train, if you body weight train, or if you combine weight training with body weight training, it's the combination of weight training and body weight training that, and this is specific to seniors, allows for the most amount of muscle and also the metabolic effects found therein.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:08]: So this is kind of how I train. I'll tell you exactly how I train. We'll wrap it up with this because it'll be helpful for you, but also include some helpful links for you, Glenn, as well. Backing up what I'm telling you about bone density and sarcopenia, and combining weight training and body weight training. So I work out with my sons, river and tarrant, we work out five days a week, and then we use the weekends for things like tennis and pickleball, and rucking and hiking and you know, paddle boarding. And I, granted that's still working out, we do formal workouts out five days a week. Right now what it looks like is three days a week we do full body exercise training. All multi-joint deadlifts, squats, kettlebell swings, overhead press, romanian deadlifts, floor press, some loaded exercises, some sandbag stuff, pull ups, loaded pull ups, leg raises, you name it.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:01]: Right? So typically we've got anywhere from five to seven different exercises that we're doing, either AMRAP style or emom style, every minute on the minute, or sometimes just superset style, large amount of density, and we're working out like 50 to 60 minutes on weights, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then on Tuesday and Thursday we do breath work, sauna, cold and high intensity interval training. Meaning like this morning we did a 20 minutes wim Hof session in the sauna, we did a 4-minute cold plunge, and then we did six 30-second efforts on the Airdyne, with three minutes recovery after each effort. Right? So Tuesdays and Thursdays are heat, cold breath work and HIIT cardio. Monday, Wednesday, Friday is weight training. And now you may ask, well Ben, where's the body weight training? So in addition to that, on any given day, I probably do about 50 to 100 push ups and around 50 pull ups and around 100 bodyweight squats. Because back to what I was talking about, just staying active all day, I just like whatever, you know. Hey, you know, after this podcast, I'll probably go out in the backyard and I'll do 20 squats, 20 push ups and 10 pull ups. And so I just kind of like weave a lot of the body weight stuff in throughout the day as just a natural part of my day, which for all the reasons I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, is great for keeping your metabolism elevated as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:59:28]: And so that, that's exactly what my own program looks like right now. And I mean, keeps us super fit. I could do that the rest of my life. It's pretty, pretty sustainable. So anyways, hopefully that that helps. To answer your question, Glenn, I should say I could do it for the rest of my life, but I change stuff up all the time, right? Cause, you know, when I travel, sometimes I'm just like a half-hour a day with blood flow restriction bands cranking out push ups and squats and lunges in the hotel room. And then I might have someday where I visit some fancy biohacking facility that I'm advising and they throw me on something that, you know, makes me sore for the next week. So I'm like, you know, single set the failure exercise tool.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:03]: Or, you know, sometimes I'll do, um, you know, sometimes I'll be out hunting and I'm just hauling an 80 pound backpack around for five days. So it just depends. But, you know, for the most part, that, that's just like a glimpse into the type of training that I do do. And for context, I'm 42, 6'2", I am 186 pounds and I am 7% body fat. And I feel pretty strong. And I just raced a Spartan and I feel like I got some fitness and some strength. And I think a big part of it just consistency, consistency, consistency. So hopefully that helps.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:41]: All the show notes are at bengreenfieldlife.com/477. That's bengreenfieldlife.com/477 where you can also leave your questions, comments, your feedback. Thank you so much for listening in. And last thing I should say is check out my brand new membership website. It's incredible. Golifenetwork.com dot check it out. Golifenetwork.com. You know, love it.

Ben Greenfield [01:01:08]: I'm gonna leave it there because when you visit that website, you'll see exactly how you can just basically have me and all your favorite health experts on the face of the planet in your back pocket all day long. Golifenetwork.com alright, thanks for listening. I'm Ben Greenfield, but you knew that. Over and out. Do you want free access to comprehensive show notes? My weekly roundup newsletter, cutting edge research and articles, top recommendations from me. For everything that you need to hack your life and a whole lot more, check out Bengreenfieldlife.com. it's all there. Bengreenfieldlife.com. See you over there.

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