Are Tanning Beds Safe, The CRAZY Future Of Red Light Therapy & The “Sun Sandwich” concept, Robot Massages, Korean Face Masks & More With Kris Sweeting.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:02]: This episode of the Boundless Life podcast.

Kris Sweeting [00:00:04]: Khloe Kardashian bought this device for all her sisters, actually, and then publicly endorsed me. And I didn't have to pay a dime. They just, like made me set up this new payment called bill, and they just sent me like 20 grand. They were so cool to work with.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:19]: Welcome to the Boundless Life with me.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:22]: Your host, Ben Greenfield.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:24]: I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:27]: And I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:40]: Welcome to the show, folks. When I'm recording this podcast, sometimes off to, I guess my right, maybe your left, depending on how you're looking at the screen. I often have these crazy devices, and one that's been beside me for many shows lately is this crazy looking contraption. You probably can't see the whole thing, but let me. What I'll do is I'll adjust my camera just for a second so you guys can see what that looks like. It's like the craziest looking red light panel, if we want to call it that, that I've ever messed around with before. I can push little buttons on it and it'll do like UVA, UVB, COB. I forget what that even means.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:20]: LED. And it's called an Ultron, so sounds like a Star wars character. And there's a lot of red light therapy devices out there. There's beds, there's mats, there's panels, et cetera. And my apologies if you're listening, my voice faded. I was just readjusting the camera. But the guy who designed this thing, Kris Sweeting, he reached out to me a few months ago and I was really interested in his unique approach to phototherapy and just his backstory in general. Kris is here with me on the show.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:59]: His company is EMR TEK. That's spelled a K. T E K. All the shownotes are going to [email protected]/ EMRpodcast if you want to dig into some more juiciness on all things photobiomodulation. But Kris, what got you interested in the whole realm of light?

Kris Sweeting [00:02:20]: Yeah. So thanks, Ben. It's cool to be here. I grew up watching you, man, when I was like 24 to, like 28.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:29]: Oh, thanks for making me feel old. Yeah, right. Right off the bat, just backhanded compliment. Thank you.

Kris Sweeting [00:02:35]: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, it's the truth. So basically, when I was three years old, I got the disease called vitiligo the same disease that Michael Jackson had. By the time I was like five, I was walking around with an umbrella because the doctors told me to stay out of the sunlight. Which, you know, it ends up being that it's like literally the ultraviolet light, they thought that was going to like, damage my skin even more and like pro give me skin cancer because I had no melanin, no, like, no, essentially photoprotection in my skin. So they were really worried. Turns out you literally can't get skin cancer basically with vitiligo, so. And it's crazy because.

Kris Sweeting [00:03:23]: Because it's the sun and ultraviolet light that actually repigmented my skin. And I was. I was pretty disfigured by the time I was nine to the point where, you know, people were like, I couldn't go anywhere, dude.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:37]: Yeah, it's like, by the way, it's like for people who aren't in front of Google Images or whatever right now for vitiligo, isn't it. Isn't it like, like reddish patches all over the place?

Kris Sweeting [00:03:48]: No, but actually one of my teammates has that totally on her. Like all the worst ones are one of the worst ones I've ever seen. But it looks so cool now. But you can see a little bit on my thumb where it's just depigmented white.

Ben Greenfield [00:04:01]: Yeah, it's almost like splotching kind of.

Kris Sweeting [00:04:05]: Yeah. And it's basically you have too much epidermal hydrogen peroxide in the skin. And you know what hydrogen peroxide does to your hair? It turns it basically white. It destroys the melanocyte. We have just excessive amounts. And once this doctor in Germany, like I went to 20 doctors, dude, they put every single type of cream on me. I used to have to put makeup on myself every morning. Like it was.

Kris Sweeting [00:04:30]: Because it was so disfiguring. It was bad, bro. But so this German doctor found out that, wow, these people have too much hydrogen peroxide in their skin. So she developed a cream called pseudocatalyse. She was a PhD researcher and a dermatologist. She developed this cream. It reduced the hydrogen peroxide in your skin within 10 minutes. Then you would go into narrowband ultraviolet B3 11, 312 nanometer.

Kris Sweeting [00:05:00]: So that's a isolated wavelength. That's why they call it narrowband. It's a narrowband of light in the UVB spectrum. And I would go into that specific wavelength of light and it literally repigmented my skin by the time within six months it started and then within the next, like one to two years I was fully repigmented and I've literally never had a regression except my hands and feet. That's known in the, is common in the literature. It's just they think it's to do with how much chemicals are put on your hands and how much wears on your feet with the shoes and the socks and everything like that. So. But, but everywhere else, man, I've totally repigmented my body.

Kris Sweeting [00:05:42]: So no more makeup.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:44]: So, so is the story of your company like you just taking that light and reproducing it or how'd you start making these, these panels?

Kris Sweeting [00:05:54]: Long story short is I, I had these, these beds, these tanning booths in my room, bro. I had a broadband UVA narrowband UVB. I had broadband UVA UVB and I grew up with these in my bedroom since I was 5, like 5 years old. I remember I couldn't even open the doors.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:12]: Are these like the same kind of tanning beds you'd find like a hair salon or a gym?

Kris Sweeting [00:06:16]: No, they're we. So we use the exact same bulbs that I grew up using. It's called their. Philips from the Netherlands is a company in the Netherlands. Most vetted ultraviolet product you can buy, right? Because it's, it's, it's hazardous. Your ultraviolet light can be hazardous in excessive amounts or if it's just like a, like a, like a bad bulb or something like that, they make a mistake. So 3 11, 312 nanometers. That's the wavelength that I was using in the UVB spectrum.

Kris Sweeting [00:06:44]: UVB does create, you know, fingerprint mutations in the skin. But 3, 11, 312 nanometers. The reason why they use that is because it has the lowest mutation frequency. So you get all the benefits of like increased vitamin D through synthesis of cholesterol in your skin with. And also a ton of different, a plethora of different benefits with the lowest mutation frequency or rate in, in, in the ultraviolet light spectrum, so. Or UVB spectrum.

Ben Greenfield [00:07:16]: So how much time like compare and contrast this with sunlight for me, like if I'm using a UVA UVB spectrum in the wavelength that you've just described, how long would I need to be in front of it if I didn't have vitiligo? And I just wanted the benefits of say vitamin D production.

Kris Sweeting [00:07:31]: And for example, so you're going for is what's, what's called minimal erythema response, right? The erythema, basically the blood pooling into the skin to harvest the ultraviolet energy back into the blood. That's why you can push on it and displace it. But what, what I mean by and, and that's the erythema. But what I mean by a minimal erythemal response or dose. It's actually dose is you want to turn slightly pink. So Ben, it looks like you got a pretty actually good like 10 on. So I think you'd be good around three minutes.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:08]: Okay. I have my unit set. I think it came factory default set at 4.

Kris Sweeting [00:08:16]: For that you could do 5. You could do 5 and you'd probably get MED with 5. But that's the thing. My tanning device is even lower, like a little bit more tame than a full blown ultraviolet narrowband tanning booth. You know, we're using slightly so you can go even more. I think if I was to estimate. It's not a recommendation, but I think what would trigger med for you, you'd around four minutes.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:45]: Could you equivalent the time length of UVA, UVB using a panel like this to how long you'd have to spend out in the sun to get a similar amount?

Kris Sweeting [00:08:54]: 30 minutes at 12.

Ben Greenfield [00:08:56]: Okay, and is it true? I know we're bouncing all over the place here and I want to hear a little bit more about how you came to form this company. Is it true that if UVA and UVB exposure is accompanied by the red light spectrum, that it somehow balances it out in such a manner that it becomes potentially less hazardous?

Kris Sweeting [00:09:17]: Yeah, absolutely. Because, well, see, yes, I would use the red in the morning or just get exposure to sunlight in the morning, like morning sunlight, because it preconditions the skin to accept the ultraviolet light in the afternoon. Then it's, you know, the reason, the reason it's red again at night is it photobiomodulation resolves acute inflammation. That's Mary Dyson's work she did on rats and humans. But that it's really buried. But that's all she studied was, was wound healing and essentially how the effect of photobiomodulation and resolving acute inflammation. So in the morning, the red light preconditions your skin by thickening the stratum corneum and thickening and basically, yeah, thickening the stratum corneum. It's called the solar callus of the, of the skin.

Kris Sweeting [00:10:13]: And so it's more durable in the afternoon to accept the UV light. And then in the, in the evening when the sun, when it's sunset, it's red again. And that resolves the acute inflammation induced by the ultraviolet light in the afternoon.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:26]: Okay, this is sweet, this is super. I haven't talked about this on the show before, Kris. I always thought when people say solar callus that they were talking about time spent out in the sun. You get a tan, the tan helps to protect you from the rays of the sun. But it sounds to me like what you're saying is that if I am going to be a sun seeker and get all the health benefits of the sun, in an ideal scenario, I am, and this is way too woo woo, natural and ancestral for many people I think. But I'm going to get red light exposure from the sun or if I can't, from something like a red light panel in the morning, literally seeing the sunrise. And then I'm going to spend the day, be out on the beach, out in the sunlight, working in the garden, whatever. And then as the icing on the cake, I want to also expose my body to the red light of spectrum at sunset.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:16]: And that's kind of like the perfect sandwich for human skin. Like a sun sandwich.

Kris Sweeting [00:11:20]: Yeah, that's a sun sandwich right there. And it's, you know, here's the thing man. If you, if you don't do that then there is like the luterious effects. If you don't do that, then the sun is bad. It's not even, it's not, it's not that it's bad for you, but it comes with negatives. If you don't do that. It does come with negatives.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:40]: If you're just in like Las Vegas eating french fries by the pool between 2 and 4pm you slept until 10am, never saw sunrise, you're in the club and you never see sunset. That's an example of improper sunlight exposure.

Kris Sweeting [00:11:53]: Yeah. And I'm, you know, I think that, that, that is the kind of scenario that does result in some kind of like pathology. If it's like done for like 10 years. That's. That's exactly the kind of thing that, and I just, I was just talking about that with my friend. That, that's exactly what I think is, is a big problem. I still think it's better like compared to getting no sunlight at all. I still think it might be better.

Ben Greenfield [00:12:20]: Yeah, well, maybe depending on whether or not you are actually eating the french fries. The whole seed oils oxidative damage from sunlight radiation might be a discussion for another day.

Kris Sweeting [00:12:29]: You know, I saw that in myself, bro. I got. What do you mean? My, like my fur, dude. I. Okay, so I was at an Airbnb, bro. I had perfect, totally perfect skin, man. And I was like, so I was like I know this UVB like, because I've been doing it every day. Even synthetic doesn't really age the skin.

Kris Sweeting [00:12:47]: But I was at an Airbnb in Costa Rica and they had this weird oil and I was like, ah, it was like, it was like, definitely a seed oil, dude. And I was just, I was going through it, an audit, a corporate audit. And I was like, like, I don't care right now. I can't deal with this. Like, I'm just cooking with this right now. And dude, I cook and I never cook with that. And I cooked with it. I spent a lot of time in the sun as well, dude.

Kris Sweeting [00:13:09]: And I got it. I got some oxidized heat oil in my face, like, which is, which is in age spots. It's a sunspot. It's small. But for me I noticed it because I never had any kind of hyperpigmentation at all. And I think that's what happens when you eat the seed oils and then go in the sun.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:26]: Yeah, people say the same thing about oxidized fish oil and sunspots, like having a rancid or a fish oil that's been exposed to a lot of temperature or oxidation. Yeah. I don't know of any imaging studies because they can do actual imaging studies of collagen structure, wrinkles, et cetera, that have looked specifically at seed oils versus a control group and sunlight exposure. But I, you know, I suspect that the whole, you know, grandma from Something about Mary effect definitely takes place.

Kris Sweeting [00:13:54]: It's probably an inflammatory effect. You know, it's like a compounded like inflammatory instead of like a balanced like inflammatory, anti inflammatory thing. I think that's probably what it is.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:06]: Yeah. Not to mention in many cases, people consuming a diet rich in oxidized oils or fried foods and ultra processed foods have a low intake of collagen supporting foods, which I don't think does the skin any favors either. Geek out on this light with me. This Ultron. Just as a matter of illustrative description of what you create, what comes out of your crazy mind. Kris, walk me through the components of this thing and why you choose to focus on what you do with light as far as the frequencies that you use and how you work in the UVA UVB piece, which you've already described a little bit. Just geek out on this with me.

Kris Sweeting [00:14:43]: Yeah, man. Well, we use the wavelengths of light that are scientifically proven to enhance mitochondrial function. And they. By mitochondrial function, I mean, mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. There's three wavelengths of light, two in the red visible spectrum, one in the near infrared spectrum. So it's 630 nanometers, 670, those are two red wavelengths, and then there's 800 and 30 nanometers. That's one near infrared wavelength. Essentially, what these, with these wavelengths of light do is they hit the fourth enzyme in the mitochondrial electron transport chain.

Kris Sweeting [00:15:20]: This is where all your electrons get processed, they spin, and it generates chemical energy for your body to use.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:26]: Is that cytochrome C oxidase?

Kris Sweeting [00:15:30]: Yeah, cytochrome C oxidase. So these wavelengths, 6, 3, 0, 6, 78, 30, they hit this enzyme. It's called photo dissociation. So they unbind nitric oxide, they dissociate the nitric oxide from the electron transport chain. Because nitric oxide and oxygen flow basically compete down for flow down the chain. When you unbind nitric oxide, oxygen is more effectively processed and the net result is more adenosine triphosphate.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:59]: So.

Kris Sweeting [00:16:00]: So those are the photobiomodulation wavelengths that.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:04]: We use when nitric oxide dissociates from this complex in the mitochondria from cytochrome C oxidase. Is that one of the reasons people get a little bit of a vasodilatory vasculature effect from red light, because the nitric oxide winds up in the vasculature?

Kris Sweeting [00:16:19]: I'm not sure that that actually happens. I think that it unbinds somewhere into the cell and then it's elevated, but it's released or activated or released by ultraviolet A. That's what I believe is the case.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:35]: Well, what I mean is when it, when it's released, though, when it's released, does it have a similar effect on the body? As if I'd like, you know, drink some beet juice or something like that.

Kris Sweeting [00:16:44]: I've never felt like that. I've never noticed that. And I'm not. I've never read any literature about that, but I've just never looked into it. I. I've always. I've always known for sure that UVA, which is in that device, broadband UVA, does vasodilate.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:01]: I'm sure the heat, I was gonna say, because you do get it when, when you get a mild heating effect, even when you're laying in one of these red light beds, for example, and that alone might cause a little bit of a cooling mechanism to take place with the body, sending blood to the extremities. So I'm sure that's part of it as well.

Kris Sweeting [00:17:18]: Well, yeah. And it's like wherever energy goes blood flows. So there would have to be some sort of. Actually, you know what, dude, that's true. Because wherever energy goes, blood flows. So it will, it's just, it's just a much less potent vasodilator than UVA.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:34]: Okay. All right, so you've got, built into this device, you said 630, 670 and 830 wavelengths of red and then near infrared light.

Kris Sweeting [00:17:47]: There might even be 850 in there. Dude, I have, so I have like 20 different specs of units now, so it's like so hard for me to keep track of all this shit.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:56]: Okay, well, that's a pretty slight difference, 20nm between 830 and 850.

Kris Sweeting [00:18:00]: Yeah, it might be both. It might be both is what I'm saying.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:02]: 95% of people listening in right now do not care. So you've got those three wavelengths. And I mean, is that different? Because I have like, I do some work with da Vinci because I work with 10x and I've got like a Theralite bed and then a Therlite panel above one of my exercise bikes. I've done stuff with juve before, so I've got these joov lights. Are they all pretty much using the same frequencies or, or, or wavelengths?

Kris Sweeting [00:18:34]: Yeah, well, they do use the same wavelengths. You know, 8, 850. You know, some of the companies probably went with 850 because it's a lot actually, it's, it's actually a lot cheaper than 830. That's the case.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:46]: That seems kind of weird. It would be cheaper and there's not that much of a difference in the nanometers.

Kris Sweeting [00:18:50]: I know, but it's just, it's just true. It's just true. I found that out through one of my manufacturers. Yeah, basically just just switching to 850 to try and meet my price that I needed. And I was like, like is. And then I realized it was that big of a difference. But I'm not, I'm not sure about all the brands. What, what I can say is that, I mean, for example, the Firehawk, I, I made that for Duncan Keith.

Kris Sweeting [00:19:25]: The Chicago Blackhawk.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:26]: What's, what's the Firehawk?

Kris Sweeting [00:19:28]: The Firehawk is the lower end model of what I gave you, which is the Ultron. I, I, I literally draw, drew that on the back of a cereal box at like 1am dude. And I'm just trying to advance light therapy. Like, like, literally that standing behind you is the first full body laser acupuncture device in the world.

Ben Greenfield [00:19:49]: What's that even mean? Laser acupuncture.

Kris Sweeting [00:19:52]: So you can hit the meridian points of the body with, with like laser light. The COB chips are, it kind of, it's not tech. They're kind of in between like an LED and, and a laser because essentially it's not really in physics terms, but kind of they do hit the acupoints of the body or the, or even the joint points with increased light energy. And essentially it's a diode cluster. But like in, in comparison like if you took like a, like a, like irradiance meter, right. And you put, you put it up to the, just the normal diodes on my, on my, on the unit that you have and then you moved it over to the COB chip, the difference would be like 200 to 1400.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:39]: So what do you mean COB chip? Sorry if I, if I sound dumb here. I might need some explanation of this.

Kris Sweeting [00:20:44]: It's called a circuit on board chip. So the large globes, the large globes on that. So these things there's. Yes, yes, those large globes. So all the small diodes are 3 watt diodes. Right. But we packed 64 of those 3 watt diodes into the circumference of an inch and then beam it out using a cone shaped 30 degree lens which further concentrates the light. Okay.

Kris Sweeting [00:21:09]: So you, you'll essentially, and you can even feel that, that those are much more powerful in terms of heat. But the difference is, is like 1000% more power essentially.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:25]: So if it's acting on the meridian points of the body when I'm standing in front of it or behind it, wouldn't that change based on how tall somebody is? Like where the lights are going to hit?

Kris Sweeting [00:21:36]: Yeah. So like you're like, you're a pretty good candidate for this. Obviously I've thought about making it like, you know, like adjustable and but that's like, that's pretty, it's maybe, maybe I do that in the future.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:49]: What height is it ideally designed for then?

Kris Sweeting [00:21:51]: Yeah. So Duncan Keith, I made it for myself and Duncan Keith, I'm six one and three quarters. But anyone from like five eleven to like six foot three can kind of, you know you could get away with like 5:10 to 6:3. Is, is it works pretty well. How tall are you Ben?

Ben Greenfield [00:22:10]: I'm six three. So if you're super short you would have to kind of like maybe put a little platform to stand up on this. This people might not be able to see with the camera, but right in the middle there's a big diode should that one be like towards the back of the head?

Kris Sweeting [00:22:22]: Yeah, it should be like line. Honestly, I made it to line up with your forehead?

Ben Greenfield [00:22:26]: Yeah, it's right around my forehead, to be honest with you. So based on that, if you're facing it. Because honestly, most of the time when I'm using it, it's for the first 20 minutes of work in the morning, so it's on my back. But if you're facing it, do you have to be cautious about eye exposure? Because I've heard that with red light the eye protection goggle thing isn't as big of a deal. But with UVA and UVB it might be.

Kris Sweeting [00:22:51]: Yeah, man, because I've seen this happen, dude. Well, I've done it to myself. One I've made all the mistakes with, with ultraviolet light, dude. I burned myself so bad a couple times.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:03]: You burn yourself?

Kris Sweeting [00:23:05]: Oh, I burnt myself, dude. On my lights when I was, when I was, a long time ago when I was like using them for a bit of LIGO, when I was like 12, 13, punching in the password program at the time, I, I made mistakes where I had multiple tanning beds in my bedroom, right. So I would use one that didn't have floor four doors. So I would have to switch and turn around and do my back. And so I had to do that for eight minutes one time. Just. I don't know, I wasn't thinking. I came in, programmed my four door for eight minutes and just cooked in it, dude.

Kris Sweeting [00:23:38]: Oh my God.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:39]: So there's that much of a difference between like four minutes in front of this thing and eight minutes in front.

Kris Sweeting [00:23:44]: Of the one that I was using which is a four door full blown.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:49]: Oh, that's different than, than the beds that are, than the panels that you're making now then.

Kris Sweeting [00:23:53]: Yes, they're so much more tame because that, that, yes, that would, that device that would have to come with much more heavy disclaimer I'm making. I'm trying to make everyday use safe lights that people can't hurt themselves with. Like you can't hurt yourself with that.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:10]: Yeah. So I should have goggles on if I'm facing it and looking at the.

Kris Sweeting [00:24:13]: UVA UVB because it'll make your eyeball red. It'll make your eyeball red. Like the same thing that happened to your skin. Like your whole eye will go red, man.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:23]: How far away from, from a panel do you have to stand typically if someone's using a red light panel?

Kris Sweeting [00:24:30]: So that one's, that one's really good. It depends technically, like what kind of drivers they're using? We use Meanwell Power drivers. You can google them. It's like a, used to be a trade secret, but I don't really care anymore. They take the flicker out and the magnetic field is zero. We're like the first company to take to figure that out.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:49]: Does that translate into meaning it's flicker free, low EMF?

Kris Sweeting [00:24:52]: Yeah, exactly. And so depending on the drivers in your device, you want to, you want to obviously stay outside of the electromagnetic field because also like these LED devices are like a, like there's like a lot of dirty electricity. You don't want to be in the field because it's not just an electromagnetic field, it's a dirty electromagnetic field. So with the Meanwell power driver, that's the cleanest thing ever. But if you want to go look at the cost of them, they're pretty, it's pretty brutal.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:18]: You're going to freak out a lot of people because obviously people are using all sorts of different red light devices. Are you telling me that you should use some kind of a meter to test it and if so, what would you be looking for?

Kris Sweeting [00:25:30]: I mean, you would want to test for electromagnetic field. So electric field, magnetic field. Electric field's always going to be there to some extent in our devices. They're so powerful. So the thing about the COB chip, that's why I explained how powerful is you can use it at a further distance, right? That's what it translates to. And you can use it completely outside the electric field with, with all these devices. These other devices that are just like 3 watt diodes just, they all kind of look like the same. The red light there, you can't get a therapeutic dose outside the electric field.

Kris Sweeting [00:26:06]: You actually, this, you can't.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:08]: I see what you're saying, but does it matter if it's just like 20 minutes? Like, is that a big deal?

Kris Sweeting [00:26:12]: I mean, I don't think it does at all. I honestly don't think it does at all. Because I think carrying your phone on you for an hour is more, more radiation?

Ben Greenfield [00:26:21]: Yeah. I was going to say like walking through the average airport, you're probably getting more radiation than standing in front of a red light panel for 20 minutes.

Kris Sweeting [00:26:27]: Dude, I'm, I'm like, I used to be like that and I'm like this like, does not good for my mental health, you know, like, like to like. Dude, there was one point in my life I had a cell because I used to go in before EMR tuck started and, and measure the electromagnetic fields in like infants houses, dude, this was like 10 years ago. I was 24.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:47]: Yeah. My take on it, Kris, is if you are getting adequate magnesium and minerals, you're earthing, you're grounding, you're sleeping in a room that's preferably low EMF, you don't have to be a total luddite. And there are certain devices, probably my hyperbaric chamber, my vibrating relaxation chair, some of my red light devices, et cetera. Yeah, I'm getting exposed to an electrical field. But then the question also becomes, does the advantage that it gives you outweigh any disadvantages? Even like that Eight Sleep mattress or topper? Apparently that tests pretty high for electromagnetic fields. But let's say for you that's the difference between getting five hours of sleep a night or eight hours of sleep. I question whether the extra three hours of sleep that you're getting per night overrides the radiation damage you might be getting from a little bit of extra electromagnetic exposure during a night of sleep. You know?

Kris Sweeting [00:27:42]: Absolutely, dude. And people for like, you know, the first step in terms of EMF is not like going crazy. Like, oh, does this device have EMF? It's like take a, like detox from your cell phone, like turn like as much as you can. Just like get away from that thing. Like I, I, the, the, the mass addiction is these phones, dude. And they're so bad. They're so bad for like so many reasons. Posture.

Kris Sweeting [00:28:08]: It's just like, it's just, they're just really, really underrated in terms of how they can damage your life.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:15]: Yeah, I get jealous of my wife. She's rarely on hers because she rarely has to. Let's talk about, about, yeah, marketing terms. In the red light industry, you hear the word full spectrum thrown around a lot. What does that mean?

Kris Sweeting [00:28:31]: Yeah, well, I mean it would, I mean, I guess it would mean that the like full spectrum of sunlight. I mean, I, I, I, I honestly stopped paying attention to like, I, I can go talk about a lot of the industry here, but like, I stopped paying attention to a lot of these other companies like a long time ago because I realized that like they're really like, I don't mean to sound in any way condescending to anybody, but dude.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:58]: I don't, I don't care. We're all adults here. Like people can, yeah.

Kris Sweeting [00:29:00]: Like, I just, I just don't. They're like about three or four years ago I was like, I'm not going to listen to these guys anymore. Like, I'm just like, turn them off because they're not on my level at all.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:11]: Well, a lot of, a lot of people listening are going to jump right out and say, well, that sounds pretty haughty of you. So what do you mean when you say that?

Kris Sweeting [00:29:17]: That's fine. I mean, you can just go take a look at the manufacturing level on the Ultron on my website and then if you, if you want to send me something you think is comparable at the, at the, you know, similar price point, I mean, that's, that's really all I think I have to say.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:33]: Okay, explain that though. Like, let's say somebody's listening right now. They're like, screw it, I don't have the time to go visit this website. I'm right in the middle of a workout right now. Like, walk me through what it is that you've done that that's different.

Kris Sweeting [00:29:44]: Well, I mean, we, like I said, we're the first, we're the first company to actually take the flicker out. We took the magnetic field completely out. Like you can take a tri field or magnetic field meter and push it up literally against devices gone. And just in terms of the COB chips, essentially. So Khloe Kardashian bought this device for all her sisters, actually, and then publicly endorsed me. And I didn't have to pay a dime. She actually transferred me. Dude.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:18]: So did you have to adjust the meridians for butt real estate or anything like that? Custom version.

Kris Sweeting [00:30:25]: They were so cool. They just made me set up this new payment called Bill and they just sent me like 20 grand and, and then it was like they were so cool to work with. And then I got connected with all of them. But, but yeah, man, it's. I think, I really think. And then you can, you can take a look at any single kind of ultraviolet device on the market. This is the first full body laser acupuncture device. Technically it's a full body low level laser acupuncture.

Kris Sweeting [00:30:54]: Acupuncture device. That's technically what it could be deemed. And I just don't think there's any innovation like that out there.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:02]: Explain this to me. If I'm standing in front of another red light panel or laying in a red light bed and we talk about the body having these meridians and the concept of laser acupuncture targeting those meridians, those things kind of COVID the whole body. Wouldn't I be still getting this, you know what you're calling, like the acupuncture effect, like walk me through why that'd be any different.

Kris Sweeting [00:31:26]: Well, because usually it's done with the laser, So it's done with higher irradiance beams of light and not low level laser.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:34]: So what you're saying then is like the way that you've concentrated all these diodes to be super dense and powerful, that because there's a few like super dense spots, those spots are targeting meridians. So you're getting a more powerful light concentration in those areas.

Kris Sweeting [00:31:49]: Yeah. And we may put lasers in them, we may put lasers in the middle of the COB chips, but that's something that I'm working on. But yeah, essentially, essentially it's getting close to being that. And I think, you know, a lot. There's a lot of devices on the market and they all look the same. And you know, I guess I'm going to cause some controversy on this one, but this is my last podcast and I'm so happy to do it. Ben.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:19]: The blaze of glory. Here we go. That's.

Kris Sweeting [00:32:22]: That's right. The reason that they all look the same is because they are the same. I mean, that was like a joke that I had, but it's not really a joke. I mean, I just got sick of like people asking me like, hey, like, what do you think of this device? I'm like, you mean the same device that every single other company sells, like, with a different stand and a different logo? It's just that that's what it is.

Ben Greenfield [00:32:48]: So I mean, like, are you just saying that or you, you know that to be the case? Because, I mean, so, you know, you'll see some things on Alibaba or whatever kind of sort of looks similar, but then you really get a close up and it's not. I've reached out to a few companies. They say they're using like medical grade. Medical grade materials that are different than the ones that you get from China. So I mean, how do you know? How do you know like what though?

Kris Sweeting [00:33:14]: Like, like what? Like what? Like medical grade. What? Like medical grade iron. Like that. They forged the cake, like the cases out of like. I don't. It doesn't. That's, that's, that's, that's why I stopped paying attention to this industry.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:28]: That's painting with a really broad brush though. I mean, you think there's really like, like they're all the same?

Kris Sweeting [00:33:34]: Basically. Yes. And the difference would be the drivers. And if they, you know, and they. What, what everyone should be doing is putting meanwhile drivers in their units. Like, like we are. Because they're the best. And that's.

Kris Sweeting [00:33:47]: They, like I said, they reduce the flicker to zero and they take the magnetic field out. There is still electric field. It's suit. It's really well mitigated better than all the other drivers. But I was paying like $5 a driver. Meanwhile, drivers are like like 60, 70 bucks a piece. So.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:07]: Okay, so it's going to, it's going to eat in the margins. But if there was, if there was like, there's like five companies that listen to this podcast because I'm sure some red light manufacturers are going to tune in and they switched using Mean Well drivers, would that just like fix everything and then they'd be the equivalent of what you do?

Kris Sweeting [00:34:25]: Yeah, essentially. I mean, they'd have, they'd have different cases, but yeah, I mean if they, if they added in the COB chips then, then they would be on the same power level. We do have some patents granted patents actually.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:38]: So what are your patents?

Kris Sweeting [00:34:40]: You know, we have granted patents on the Krypton models. So we gotta have. They're not patent pending, they're granted.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:47]: What's a Krypton?

Kris Sweeting [00:34:49]: A Krypton is a smaller ultraviolet device that is, it's like the baby brother of what you have, which is the Ultron.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:58]: Okay. All right.

Kris Sweeting [00:35:00]: I love superheroes. I actually had a lot of, a lot of names on my. Oh, bro. I had to change a lot recently. We had to just chat GBT the whole list and put it over to something.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:12]: Are you getting sued by Marvel or. No.

Kris Sweeting [00:35:17]: Like, you know.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:18]: Okay, okay. So preventive business practices. All right, so you've got full spectrum. And then here's another couple of terms. I would love to hear your take on this. You hear broadband and narrowband is other terms that are used. What are those?

Kris Sweeting [00:35:30]: That's legit. That's legit. Broadband is the full. So broadband, UVA is what we have in the Ultron. That's the whole. That's the whole UVA spectrum. Narrowband, Narrowband in the context. So it's a narrowband.

Kris Sweeting [00:35:46]: UVB. 311. 312. That is a narrowband of light. Only 3. 11 and 312 nanometers out of like the, the whole wavelength or whole spectrum. So it's two wavelengths in that spectrum instead of the whole broad spectrum. Right.

Kris Sweeting [00:36:02]: So it's a narrowband. Those are legitimate terms. That's. That's. Those are legitimate.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:07]: So broadband refers to UVA. Narrowband refers to UVB. When we're talking about red light, we're up in like the 600 to 8 hundreds. When we're talking about UVB.

Kris Sweeting [00:36:17]: Oh, that's basically the, the red light is narrowband too, right? Because it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:23]: An isolated wavelength and it's a narrowband. That's what you mean, right?

Kris Sweeting [00:36:28]: And the reason we use the narrowband, we use the broadband UVA is because is, and narrowband UVB is because the narrowband in the UVB, that wavelength specifically is deemed to be the least mutagenic. So like not only am I going to Philips in the Netherlands to source my bulb, so you don't have to put the trust in EMR TEK. You can relax and know that we're using Philips FDA cleared ultraviolet, most vetted ultraviolet product in the world. Expensive, but it is what it is and they have the least mutation frequency. And also Philips, because they've been around so long, they have been used in the medical literature for narrowband UVB therapy the most.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:21]: So yeah, least mutation frequency meaning lower risk of me like growing a third testicle on my backside.

Kris Sweeting [00:37:29]: Yeah. Which is a funny segue. Yeah, which is, is a funny segue because I remember an article when I was growing up about the shining red light on the balls. That one's never, never going to die.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:44]: I'll move that one down. Strike. Strike two for making me feel old. All right, so that's also a segue and something I want to ask you about. The actual exposure time and frequency is an interesting topic because some people say that if you are getting too much use of let's say the red light spectrum, you might create excess reactive oxygen species. There's kind of a Goldilocks zone in terms of time frequency. How do you recommend people use something like a red light panel or bed or anything or one of these devices in terms of days per week and amount of time?

Kris Sweeting [00:38:19]: Yeah. So I mean just for general wellness, I think I, I almost, I almost. I. Obviously you can calculate the jewels that you're, you're, you're, you're exposed to, but there's a lot of, there's some companies that like provide handbooks to like treat different pathologies. One that's, you can't do that. That's illegal. Most of these people are not doctors. And, and they should, they're not even, they don't even have class two medical devices.

Ben Greenfield [00:38:49]: Wait, so, so are, are you saying that if like a device comes and there's like a little manual, it says do use this for pain, inflammation, use this for recovery or, or does it have to be that or does it have to be a disease state? Like if it says use this for cancer, use this for diabetes. Because there's obviously a difference between saying energy or like fighting cancer.

Kris Sweeting [00:39:09]: Yeah. I mean, there's even a difference between like, like pain and. And, and energy. That pain. Pain relief would be medical.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:20]: Yeah, I forgot about that. That's a pretty broad one, huh?

Kris Sweeting [00:39:22]: It's a broad one and I know that for a reason, because my Firewave, my first product, won Amazon's choice for a couple keywords and it got deactivated because I did make that claim.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:36]: Yeah. So there's a lot of people possibly playing with fire. All right, so that being said, tell me about the time and frequency.

Kris Sweeting [00:39:43]: Yeah. So, I mean, you'd have to calculate the joules of energy that you're absorbing and. Yeah, that's a little bit more complicated.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:54]: I was going to say most people are not going to do that. Let's. Let's go with large averages here.

Kris Sweeting [00:39:59]: Right. So like, I think for people, for, for units that are producing over like 100 milliwatts per centimeter squared, I think you can do anywhere from like 4 at a. It depends. Like at a distance of. Our general recommendation is at a distance of 30 to 80 centimeters, 10 to 20 minutes, depending on essentially the depth of the target tissue and the obstructive tissue in front of it. Like, like the brain, for example, is going to be a little bit like more exposure than the. Than than the skin, for example.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:36]: Meaning the brain could use higher amounts of red light exposure than the skin.

Kris Sweeting [00:40:41]: Yeah. And. And irradiance also affects penetration efficacy. He's got only like 2% or 1 to 2% of the near infra are actually going to penetrate the skull, Ben. That's why I have. And it. Transcranial photobiomodulation is light passing through the skull to enhance brain function. Essentially.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:00]: I have one. I have a. I have a Vielight. You heard of them before, right?

Kris Sweeting [00:41:04]: They're actually there. They are in Toronto. And that's actually a really cool company. Like, that's a company that did some innovation. I remember I was like, this is really cool.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:14]: Are you, are you doing anything like that with your company, with the EMR-TEK?

Kris Sweeting [00:41:17]: So here's it, here's where we're going. And essentially, because I realized that I had too much epidermal hydrogen peroxide in my skin and that I. I could modulate that factor with a topical applicant and then go into a specific wavelength of light and, and literally way more effectively treat in this case, a pathology. But I'm looking at it from a cosmetics perspective. So I've made cosmetics in South Korea essentially that synergize and amplify the, the, the effectiveness of for example increasing collagen, elastin, reducing hyperpigmentation. And I have coinciding products that go with each wavelengths of light. For example our mask, our new eternal mask. It's a multi wavelength LED face mask that floats 3 millimeters off your skin.

Kris Sweeting [00:42:18]: This is a kind of like design. Like for example, there's a, there's a, there's a mask out there that they all look the same for a reason. Even the mask is because it's the best selling product on Alibaba and even all these branded companies are using it. But, but that sticks right on your face.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:35]: I know this because I do a clay mask once a week and I wear one of those masks and it's always like stuck with me with clay when I pull it off so it is tied up against the face and.

Kris Sweeting [00:42:44]: Then you have to clean it and then so ours literally floats 3 millimeters off your face. And so if say a woman had wanted to increase collagen and elastin, well it's almost common sense that you would apply like a hydro hydrolyzed marine collagen topical applicant with maybe some vitamin C to enhance collagen synthesis, some other things to support collagen, elastin and the fibroblast tissues or cells. And then you, and then you would wait, you would apply red light and, or red and near infrared light for like increased collagen elastic if you had a problem with hyperpigmentation. While you would use 525 nanometer green light. That's, that's also in our, in our, in our LED face mask. But you would prime the skin with something like niacinamide, coenzyme Q10 which also. Coenzyme. These are both alpha butrin.

Kris Sweeting [00:43:40]: These are like bleaching agents for the skin to reduce hyperpigmentation. 525 nanometer green light also reduces, is suggested to reduce hyperpigmentation.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:50]: Wouldn't that give you like a pale face though if you didn't have enough pigmentation?

Kris Sweeting [00:43:54]: I mean it could. And that's what a lot of the women in Asia are doing.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:58]: Oh yeah, good point. I've heard about that. Like there's like a craving for a slightly lighter complexion.

Kris Sweeting [00:44:04]: Yeah, and we're seeing it in our sales worldwide. And, and, but it's, it's really funny actually. But long story short, women suffer from hyperpigmentation and it's something that really bothers them. I know this because my mom tries all my products and. And she. She loves this stuff.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:23]: Do you have that on your label? Mom tested, kid approved.

Kris Sweeting [00:44:26]: Yeah, I should. It should. I should. Yeah, absolutely.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:32]: Okay. So you. So you were saying the direction of your company. Is this what you're doing now? You're just doing, like, face masks and topicals?

Kris Sweeting [00:44:38]: It's cosmetics. It's really cool because it's a. It's literally a sheet mask from South Korea. Like, we did it really right, man. They're all color coded. The branding's even amazing. The branding was the hardest part for me, the scientific part. And the idea was.

Kris Sweeting [00:44:53]: Was pretty much easy getting, like, getting a real cosmetics company like this branded properly like that, that was a challenge. But. But yeah, so basically it's a sheet mask. They come in boxes of 10. You open them and you. You, like, separate it from the.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:13]: Oh, I've worn one of these before. It's like this sticky thing that you put on your face.

Kris Sweeting [00:45:17]: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:18]: Don't you have to just, like, lay on your back? Like you can't walk around?

Kris Sweeting [00:45:21]: But. But this is what. This is what my mom does. She's watching TLC. She's chilling when she gets home. They in skincare. I was kind of. I don't know if you guys know this company.

Kris Sweeting [00:45:32]: It just got bought by. For $1.3 billion from Estée Lauder, but it's called Deciem Cosmetics. The Ordinary. The. The abnormal beauty company.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:41]: I don't feel like. I feel like I'm living under a rock. Never heard of them.

Kris Sweeting [00:45:44]: Bro, It's. It was. So I had the opportunity to hang out with the founder of that company. Long story short, he said he was going to expose some people from financial crimes and at that level. And never was seen again. I was the last guy to have dinner with him. But yes, super creepy dude. I was as.

Kris Sweeting [00:46:06]: True story. His name is Brandon Truaxe. Fell from his balcony. 33 Mill Street. My. My girlfriend was his real estate agent. Anyways, oopsie. Oopsies.

Kris Sweeting [00:46:17]: Yeah. Not sure if he fell, actually, but it. Yeah, I got the benefit of hanging around him. And so he kind of taught me a lot about cosmetics to the point where we were going to fly to Morocco the next day or someplace in Italy. You were just going to pick. And we're going to start a new cosmetics company because Estée Lauder had ousted him as CEO of Deciem at that point, and he kind of lost his whole family.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:42]: Oh. So he. So he sold Deciem to Estée Lauder. Now he's out. Now you're talking with him about a concept and then he dies.

Kris Sweeting [00:46:48]: Yeah, exactly. And to the point where like he was going to come pick me up, we're going to expedite our passports because we both didn't have them ready and, and he just doesn't show up. But besides that, he taught me all the. In the really ways to do a cosmetics problem cosmetics properly. Like, he's like, go to South Korea, you know, use this lab, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, man, I mean, so the thing he also taught me about the experience and, and the routine. Like, I don't know if I should blast all my details on here, but like, women want like a routine and an experience for cosmetics is, is part of the reason why I'm, I'm just talking some psychology behind the whole industry. It's the re.

Kris Sweeting [00:47:30]: Part of the reason why women will go to like, buy like expensive Estée Lauder cosmetics and mix them up in front of a mirror and apply them every night. Literally make like there's three components and they'll mix it up themselves and apply it to. Because they want the experience, they want the routine.

Ben Greenfield [00:47:46]: Yeah, it's a ritual. Yeah, this is like when I finish a workout and sometimes I don't feel like a smoothie and I make a smoothie just because it's part of my morning ritual. Sometimes I just make it and then I'll have some of my son's eggs instead. It's just there.

Kris Sweeting [00:48:00]: It's fun. And you know, here, what, what if like. So my mom likes to watch tv, so she just puts this mask on. She can still see, she can still like eat, she can still breathe. And then she'll take it off, let it, Let it just sit in for like 10 minutes. And then she'll take the, take the. She doesn't even move. She just takes the LED mask, which is totally wireless, straps it on her head and use it.

Kris Sweeting [00:48:26]: And there's zero light leakage. Zero. You can look at the pictures on her website and she can, you know, she can watch, watch TV or whatever, or cook or read or whatever, but it's, it's, it's a full routine and experience and the, the thing on top of it that's the best is this shit. It works. I made sure of that. I. My. My ex girlfriend had terrible laser burn.

Kris Sweeting [00:48:51]: A really bad hyperpigmentation. Her back. Yeah, we use the niacinamide. Just only this sole ingredient that we use niacinamide. And I would literally break ampoules open and just put it on and we did it for six months. And this stuff did like minimize by like. It didn't minimize. It reduced the hyperpigmentation by like 50%.

Kris Sweeting [00:49:11]: I was taking pictures.

Ben Greenfield [00:49:13]: What, what would happen to a, to a guy's face, like if a guy like me were to wear, wear a mask like this? Am I doing it every day? And also, what, what do you see?

Kris Sweeting [00:49:22]: You don't you, you look like you have really healthy skin, man. I was like, damn, this guy aged really good.

Ben Greenfield [00:49:29]: My mom, my mom has really good skin. And then I eat a pretty low inflammatory diet. I do a clay mask with the red light thing once a week.

Kris Sweeting [00:49:39]: I might get this clay mask I use.

Ben Greenfield [00:49:41]: Yeah, it works great. I do a derma rolling right before I do it. I do the, mostly the Alitura skin products in the morning and the evening. I wash my face really well in the morning and use a scrub like twice a week. And then the last thing. And I know this kind of sounds like not very doable for a lot of people, but I've probably had in the course of my life 4 facial stem cell protocols with exosomes and probably another like half a dozen PRP treatments on my face. So I've done a lot of, done a lot of stuff. And then I've got, just got the genetics from my mom of this kind of like Mediterranean esque skin kissed with olive oil or whatever.

Kris Sweeting [00:50:20]: Yeah, you do, you do, bro. You do. I gotta give it to you. Holy smokes.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:26]: Yeah, yeah, but I mean obviously that's a lot, that's a lot of stuff with the mask. I don't really use one of those. What do you expect when you use a mask?

Kris Sweeting [00:50:33]: What do you mean? Like if, like an LED face mask.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:35]: Like is it like less wrinkles? Is it more shine? Less shine, like tanning effect?

Kris Sweeting [00:50:41]: Yeah, no, it's, it's less wrinkles. It depends which wavelength you use, right? So like for, for red it would be less wrinkles. For green it would be reduced hyperpigmentation. And if you guys, if you want to look it up, just use ChatGPT and say does 525 nanometer green light reduce hyperpigmentation? And take a look at the data.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:01]: Don't most masks use, use red?

Kris Sweeting [00:51:03]: Yeah, so they, they do use red. Some use near infrared. I've noticed that some near infrared, especially if you put it really close, can, to, to the, to the skin can, can actually cause hyperpigmentation. I think, I think that's a potential outcome of near infrared light. So we omitted that. But yeah, 633 and 8:30 were studied and those wavelengths together. So that's red and near infrared light together more effectively stimulate collagen elastin production than 6:30 alone or 8:30 alone. So I mean if you're.

Kris Sweeting [00:51:50]: Yeah, but yeah, so red does fine lines and wrinkles. Green 525 nanometer green specifically reduces hyperpigmentation. 580. Yellow is good for like even like rosacea like symptoms. Like we don't make it that claim but like any, any redness, irritation, rosacea was cited and that, that data is less, less conclusive than the green light for the hyperpigmentation. And then that data for the green light is less conclusive by far than red for fine lines and wrinkles. But it's emerging and it's, and you know, I think, yeah, I think, I mean because of my story and I saw it literally happen to my body, I think this is, this stuff is really, really possible.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:42]: Yeah, it's interesting. What do you think about the concept of so called human photobiomodulation? Like the idea that if you have certain pigments in your bloodstream like say methylene blue or I think the black pigments from Shilajit or like a bluish green pigment from a phycocyanin that when photons of light get absorbed. I think the way it is generally explained is the photons of light from the red light spectrum would use that as a catalyst, that color as a catalyst to split water, water being H2O dihydrogen oxide, so splitting two molecules of water into two dihydrogens and two oxygens. And that would allow for generation of ATP by freeing up more electrons for the electron transport chain. Have you run into that concept at all? Like take methylene blue and then go into the red light?

Kris Sweeting [00:53:38]: Absolutely. I, you know, I haven't jumped down that, that pathway on the methylene blue personally. So I just. Because I went down this cosmetics thing, but I saw it taking place in the industry and I think there's some, there's some pretty good science behind it that would like, that would make sense, right?

Ben Greenfield [00:53:56]: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of people now who are like taking methylene blue, waiting 30 to 90 minutes and then doing red light therapy and reporting increases in energy and better performance, et cetera.

Kris Sweeting [00:54:09]: I would potentially combine it with coenzyme Q10 orally as well because there's three published studies that literally just say it's basically in the title. Photobiomodulation combined with coenzyme Q10 orally are synergistic. Yeah. And that makes total sense. Right.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:28]: That's a common ingredient in a supplement like a multivitamin, ubiquinol, or coenzyme Q10. What you're saying is you could time that prior to red light therapy, and I don't know the mechanism of action for that. It might act as a catalyst for splitting water also, but you would essentially allow for better photonic splitting of water and more electrons for the electron transport chain, subsequently more ATP by using CoQ10.

Kris Sweeting [00:54:52]: Exactly. And so you're. So that's supported orally, but I even like. Yeah, I'm suggesting you do that orally because. Because it's supported by the literature to enhance photobiomagulation and work synergistically. But ubiquinone, or coenzyme Q10 is actually the MO. One of the most potent hyperpigmentation reductors. So you could.

Kris Sweeting [00:55:15]: We're talking about enhancing photobiomodulation through ATP, but we're using this as a primary ingredient in the. In the. In the face topical. That reduces hyperpigmentation.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:27]: Yeah, I've seen some beauty products. Certainly cleaner than smearing yourself with methylene blue head to toe.

Kris Sweeting [00:55:34]: Yeah. Not funnier, though.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:36]: Yeah, yeah. So you guys are up to all sorts of interesting things over there. You got the cosmetic, you got these masks, you got the. The panels.

Kris Sweeting [00:55:44]: I got a robot, too. I'm working on a robot.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:47]: What do you mean?

Kris Sweeting [00:55:48]: I dropped? I dropped. Well, it's essentially a robot that walks around your house disinfecting. Disinfecting the. For, like, all the viral DNA. Like 254 nanometer ultraviolet C light at 2.5 milliwatts per centimeter squared kills all viral DNA. So if you could find something that would do that and just walk around your house at night, just like. Like making sure the power density of 254 is like 2.5 milliwatts per centimeter squared or higher. Then you just go around disinfecting everything.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:21]: You would have made banks during COVID I have an ultraviolet toothbrush, but robot, that's another level. I was looking the other day. They got robot massage units now at Equinox Fitness, where you can just lay there. Really? Have you gotten one?

Kris Sweeting [00:56:37]: No, but I want to. And you don't have to pay them as much.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:41]: Well, picture this. The ones at Equinox, because I looked them up, I was thinking about trying. Because you don't need to be a member to go use them. Apparently it's like an arm on one side, an arm on the other side, some kind of rotating massage device under the body, and it just works. You kind of like a little bit more dynamic version of a massage.

Kris Sweeting [00:57:01]: I see that. Yeah. Let me see this.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:05]: Yeah, I would imagine you could probably source something like that from Alibaba. Of course, then you come back full circle to what we were talking about earlier. You know, your 90 minute hefty electrical field exposure from your weekly massage.

Kris Sweeting [00:57:18]: That's right. I think that sucks. They're probably better than humans at massaging, to be honest with you, but.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:26]: Oh, I'm sure they are. Because with humans you get something different every time. But granted, with humans, you also get human touch oxytocin, you know, some of the electromagnetic field of another human. You know, there's things that the robot couldn't give you too.

Kris Sweeting [00:57:40]: You gave me another idea, dude, I'll tell you.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:44]: A red light massage. Red Light Massager 100.

Kris Sweeting [00:57:47]: I'm like, what if this thing's just pumping lasers?

Ben Greenfield [00:57:51]: That's a cool idea.

Kris Sweeting [00:57:52]: On the fingers. On the fingers.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:54]: As long as those diodes don't break, you get like a broken glass massage. Yeah, yeah, that's actually. That's an interesting idea.

Kris Sweeting [00:58:02]: Do you know. Do you know why? So talking about things that can. Can go wrong, like, I remember. So there's like a lot of, like, honestly, I get a lot of emails. I don't look at the emails too much anymore. But I get in the customer service, there's a lot of women that, that actually want the red light therapy for like, vaginal health. And I looked into it because of the invasive nature of just these devices, they could be like, considered Class 3 medical devices. But, but like, you know, imagine, Imagine if you had a malfunction when something's.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:39]: Like, inside, you know, what are you going to invent like a super safe red light tampon or something?

Kris Sweeting [00:58:44]: No, like, I'm not going to do that because, like, I just, first of all, I don't want to. And I just feel like it's out of my scope of work or something.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:51]: Yeah, yeah, I get, I get what you're saying, though. Like, you literally have an electrical medical.

Kris Sweeting [00:58:55]: Device blow up inside you. Like, I'm like, like, and these things are coming from China, like, with no QA, no FDA clearance. Like, I'm just like, what?

Ben Greenfield [00:59:05]: Yeah, yeah. Probably less safe than a vibrator, I imagine. Yeah, that's it. You're freaking out. A lot of people. A lot of people are using vaginal red light freaking out right now. Kris, this is just fascinating. I mean, Is there anything else you want to share with people about photobiomodulation in the few minutes that we have left? It's kind of getting you excited right now.

Kris Sweeting [00:59:24]: Besides, I think I dropped a lot manual devices. That's the only. That's general. That's what's on my mind these days.

Ben Greenfield [00:59:31]: Well, this. This. Okay, so you got the Ultron. This thing's kind of expensive, isn't it?

Kris Sweeting [00:59:36]: Yeah, it's expensive. I mean, the margins aren't even that good at that. It's super expensive to manu. Manufacture.

Ben Greenfield [00:59:43]: But then you said the other ones were the Firehawk and the Krypton.

Kris Sweeting [00:59:46]: The Krypton is. We have a mini Krypton. It's like right now with the discount code, it's like 600 bucks. And. And that's like a. That's like one of the more expensive devices on our website. It's an ultraviolet light. It'll do the trick.

Kris Sweeting [01:00:03]: It's a. It's definitely a cool place to start. You can. You can. I'm not going to make the claim that it increases vitamin D, but it has. It has the same bulbs that are clinically proven to increase vitamin D. In. In other studies, we used to say.

Kris Sweeting [01:00:19]: But I'm not making that claim on my product. But. But I'm just saying it does.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:22]: All right, well, if folks, go to the show [email protected]/ emrpodcast I'll link out to your catalog and your website and everything. I think we do have some kind of a discount code somewhere. And yeah, if you guys have questions or comments or feedback things I didn't ask Kris, just leave them right there in the show notes. I read all the comments. Again, @bengreenfieldlife.com/ EMRpodcast. Kris, you're one fascinating dude. Thanks for doing this.

Kris Sweeting [01:00:50]: Thank you, sir. You too. You too, man. Thank you.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:52]: Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for making me feel better. All right, folks, I'm Ben Greenfield with Kris Sweeting. Sign out from BenGreenfieldLife.com have an incredible.

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