The Truth About Lectins And The Plant Paradox By Dr. Steven Gundry

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Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Grains of all kinds, especially whole grain wheat.

Corn. Tomatoes. Potatoes.

Beans and legumes, particularly soy.

Just about all nuts, especially cashews and peanuts.

Zucchini, bell peppers, eggplant and pickles.

Each of these foods has one thing in common – a food component that today's podcast guest, Dr. Steven Gundry, claims may be responsible for some of the world's most pressing health issues, from obesity to heart disease. In Dr. Gundry's new book The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in “Healthy” Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain”, he highlights exactly what that food component is.

Dr. Gundry is a renowned cardiologist, New York Times best-selling author and medical researcher. During his 40-year career in medicine, he has performed over 10,000 heart surgeries and developed multiple life-saving medical technologies, including patenting nine cardiac surgery devices.

He is a cum laude graduate of Yale University with special honors in Human Biological and Social Evolution. After graduating Alpha Omega Alpha from the Medical College of Georgia School of Medicine, Dr. Gundry completed residencies in General Surgery and Thoracic Surgery at the University of Michigan and served as a Clinical Associate at the National Institutes of Health. There, he invented devices that reverse the cell death seen in acute heart attacks; variations of these devices subsequently became the Gundry™ Retrograde Cardioplegia Cannula. It has become the world’s most widely used device of its kind to protect the heart from damage during open-heart surgery. After completing a fellowship in congenital heart surgery at The Hospital for Sick Children, Great Ormond Street, in London, Dr. Gundry was recruited as Professor and Chairman of Cardiothoracic Surgery at Loma Linda University Medical Center. There, he and his partner, Leonard Bailey, pioneered infant and pediatric heart transplantation. Together, they have performed more such transplants than any other surgeons in the world.

During his tenure at Loma Linda, Dr. Gundry pioneered the field of xenotransplantation, the study of how the genes of one species react to the transplanted heart of a foreign species. He was one of the original twenty investigators of the first FDA-approved implantable left ventricular assist device (a kind of artificial heart). Dr. Gundry is also the inventor of the Gundry Ministernomy, the widely used minimally invasive approach to aortic- or mitral-valve repair, the Gundry Lateral Tunnel, a “living” tissue that can rebuild parts of the heart in children with severe congenital heart malformations; and the Skoosh™ venous cannula, the most widely used cannula in minimally invasive heart operations.

One of the fathers of robotic surgery, as a consultant to Computer Motion (now Intuitive Surgical), Dr. Gundry received early FDA approval to use robotic-assisted minimally invasive surgery for coronary artery-bypass and mitral-valve operations. He holds patents on devices for connecting blood vessels and coronary artery bypasses without sutures, as well as for repairing the mitral valve without the need for sutures or a heart-lung machine. He has served on the Board of Directors of the American Society of Artificial Internal Organs (ASIAO), and was a founding board member and treasurer of the International Society of Minimally Invasive Cardiothoracic Surgery (ISMICS). He recently completed two successive elected terms as President of the Board of Directors of the American Heart Association, Desert Division.

Dr. Gundry has been elected a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, the American College of Cardiology, the American Surgical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the College of Chest Physicians. He is a member of numerous other surgical and medical societies. He is also the author of more than three hundred articles, chapters, and abstracts in peer-reviewed journals on surgical, immunology, genetic, nutrition, and lipid investigations. He has operated in more than thirty countries, including charitable missions to China, India, and Zimbabwe.

Inspired by the stunning reversal of coronary artery disease in an “inoperable” patient, using a combination of dietary changes and nutriceutical supplements, in 2001, Dr. Gundry changed the path of his career. An obese, chronic “diet” failure himself, he adapted his undergraduate Yale University thesis to design a diet based on evolutionary genetic coding, which enabled him to reverse his own medical problems. In the process, he effortlessly lost 70 pounds. The equally astonishing results from following what he came to call Diet Evolution in several of his staff led Dr. Gundry to accept a position in Palm Springs where he could devote his efforts to disease reversal.

No longer satisfied with repairing the damage of chronic diseases, since 2002, Dr. Gundry founded and has served as Medical Director of The International Heart and Lung Institute in Palm Springs, California, which serves patients referred from across the nation. He is also Founder and Director of The Center for Restorative Medicine, part of the Institute. Its mission is to prevent and reverse the chronic diseases of “ageing” with diet and nutriceutical interventions, using surgical intervention for heart and vascular disease as a last resort.

During today's discussion with Dr. Gundry, you'll discover:

-What exactly a lectin is, and why plants have them…[6:56]

-What happens to the gut upon consumption of lectins, and whether there's any research behind it…[9:25 ]

-The common (and uncommon) sources of lectins that most people eat…[20:35]

-How a lectin is different than gluten…[21:35 & 30:10]

-Whether our ancestors ate plants and lectins…[31:10 & 44:50]

-Why Steven is such a fan of eating fruit that’s in season, or fruit that is unripened…[36:45]

-Why Steven thinks it is that so many of the Blue Zones in Dan Buettner's longevity book had a propensity for eating legumes, yet still lived long…[48:45]

-Simple hacks you can use to reduce lectins in common foods like tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, apple, rice, etc…[39:55, 43:25 & 55:50]

-And much more!

Resources from this episode:

-The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in “Healthy” Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain

-Pressure Cooker

-Lectin Shield

Show Sponsors:

-Atrantil –  Go to and use the code Ben for 15% off.

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Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for Dr. Gundry or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

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135 thoughts on “The Truth About Lectins And The Plant Paradox By Dr. Steven Gundry

  1. harrie geenen says:

    if you want to develop the best diet, then Dr. Gundry’s method is by far the best.
    1/ make use of many patients and extensive blood tests. and developing / adapting your principles
    2/ use canaries
    3/ use blue zones (longevity)
    So I think Dr Gundry’s diet is the best in the world right now.
    After that comes his attempt to explain everything. That part is much weaker I think, but is that the most important?
    If the practice works, his contribution is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

  2. Anyone selling something is automatically suspect, since they’re trying to make profits. He’s already wealthy, if he wanted to help people he would just give away his data and research to help people.

    Sure he’s got credentials, great. Take anything any “expert” says with a grain of salt. Go ahead and try what they’re suggesting if you like. Maybe it helps you, maybe it doesn’t. But also do your own research and pay close attention to your sources.

    Two cents.

  3. Sarojini Chedalawada says:

    I am waiting for a reply from Dr. Gundry about shell fishl I asked a question but don’t know where to look for a reply from dr. Gundry.

  4. Steven Rowlandson says:

    I suspect that many of the doctors critics just don’t want to give up their sugar and lectin rich diets because they like the taste and don’t want to admit error in their thinking.

    1. Josef Dugashvilli says:

      He is a quack. He peddles fear and diet supplements he makes a fortune off of.

      1. Jay says:

        He’s not completely a quack but fortunately or unfortunately (whichever you look at it), he’s wrong and the peddaling of supplements has further debased his credibility. Whether or not certain lectins cause ‘leaky gut’ and ‘leaky gut’ itself needs further research before any conclusions can be made about whether they also are the cause for many of the autoimmune diseases we see today. It is a promising idea but we tread carefully before jumping to conclusions and making any recommendations to people.

        The real answer is much simpler thankfully. A whole food plant based diet free of oils, salts, refined sugar, and meat/animal protein is best and that’s all folks.

        Look these people up on Youtube or elsewhere for the real answer as to what is the correct diet and why:

        T COLIN CAMPBELL (The China Study)

        GARTH DAVIS (Proteinaholic)



        MAX GERSON



        and others who truly know…

        1. Jay says:

          Oops that should be “Michael Klaper” with a ‘K’.

          Also forgot to mention Jason Fung (Obesity Code and Science of Fasting).

          Gundry has some good ideas that need more investigation but he is not correct about most supplements including fish oil, he is not right about consuming tons of olive oil (the med. diet results are not the result of the olive oil!!!), he is not right about dairy (cheese is NOT good for you), he is not right about MILK (we are not designed to drink this after we are weened), he is not right about WHOLE GRAINS, he is not right about GLUTEN for most… He is simply not right about most of it. If Leaky Gut exists, it can be healed by our own immune systems. You do not need ANY of his expensive supplements thankfully!

          The real answers are simple truths and common sense.

      2. Miki Leeper says:

        I don’t see any ‘fear mongering’ in Dr. G’s writing, and his Protocol, which has cured many of supposedly lethal diseases, is based on food. Yes, you can take supplements. With the food available today, particularly fast food, we are eating ourselves into obesity and illness.

        Have. you tried Dr. G’s Protocol? I recommend it for a few weeks. See what happens, and then call him a quack.

      3. Satyam says:

        Agreed. There’s a painfully long intro about his accomplishments as a heart surgeon because his belief has no merit and flies in the face of the overwhelmingly established fact that hear disease is the number one killer and that plant based diets are far more healthy than animal based ones.

      4. ela says:

        He’s no quack. Period.

    2. Patric Alan says:

      In looking over the list of foods Dr. Gundry says to avoid at all costs, due to their lectins, I discovered that my entire life (75 years) I have been eating nothing but the foods on that list! Yet I have never been even one pound over weight, have always had high energy levels (although I rarely have ever drank caffeinated beverages), have never had any heart problems, or symptoms of diabetis or arthritis. What is more, my immune system never fails to protect me from infection or infectious diseases. So I suggest that the doc has yet to discover the true causes of all these health problems.
      My sound advice to those who would seek for lives of good health, is to start when you’re young, to always eat natural (unrefined) foods, to avoid antibiotics and all doctors who prescribe them, and any doctors who don’t believe in “let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food.

      1. dorrilyn says:

        Interested in your story – at 79, mine is very similar.

  5. Janet says:

    Bonnie, I have the same question. Did you ever get an answer to this?

  6. Steven Smith says:

    Lectins are carbohydrate-binding proteins and so are found in most plants and animal life in some version of the lectin category. Maybe not in the fruits or seeds, but certainly in the stems, roots, leaves, muscles, blood, etc.
    CLEC11A is a lectin that our own body produces and it functions in growing hematopoietic stem cells which give rise to all our other blood cells. Some lectin’s are deadly, like ricin, but CLEC11A, from consuming an animal or plant which also produces it, wouldn’t harm a human.
    So, Dr Gundry really needs to be specific in WHICH lectins are harmful.
    Also, oligosaccharide (long chain sugar, carbohydrates) can bind to the lectins and cause them to pass through the colon, without being used. The inulin he adds to his coca powder binds some lectins. Maltodextrin also binds some, but maltodextrin gets absorbed, while inulin mostly passes through the colon with it’s bound lectins. (Personally, inulin causes me so much bowel distress, I get diarrhea within an hour).
    Heat and fermentation can break the lectins down so they aren’t harmful, which is why the Indonesians ferment their soy into a cheese-like bar called tempeh.

    Human intelligence and ability to cook or process foods eliminated the competition with other grain/fruit/nut eating animals and helped keep us away from predation that the other fruit/grain eaters were exposed to. Many of our domesticated foods (apples for example) are high in arsenic but we know how to cook or process to avoid the arsenic so we aren’t killed by those foods as other animals are. Same thing goes for lectin. We learned to cook potatoes till they were mushy or fluffy and the lectins were broken down.
    I tend to think he’s right about white bread processing which eliminated the lectins of the wheat husk.

    In short, proper cooking and preparation can force the lectins to bind to the fiber in the food and so the danger here is eating lectin foods raw or not consuming enough fiber when eating the foods that have some lectin.
    Of course if you only want to eat raw foods then of course some foods become very dangerous to eat.

  7. carlton loeber says:

    … I wish these interview hosts would stop with the interruptions ..

  8. Ken says:

    If you want to know the scientific truth behind Gundry’s claims, read this:…

    1. Jimmy Dahl says:

      He’s a total quack. It’s amazing what people will resort to for money.

      1. Kevin says:

        My daughter completely reversed her JDM with a similar diet . 4 years and counting . Look up Jordan Peterson his daughter had a similar case with RA reversed also with lectin free diet . Thousands are finding out the truth every day . I quess there all just a fluke by your reasoning

        1. Tyler says:

          Yes, I think that more research needs to be done about lectins. I am not so quick to deny what Gundry says either. I think antibiotic use and similar harmful substances do in fact cause a leaky gut, which allows the lectin protein to slip through and cause inflammation to the body, just as if it were A1 casein or gluten.

      2. Joan says:

        I have been taking Gundry’s VitaReds for about a year, my skin has shown tremendous improvements. The original advertisement for VitaReds had to do with skin health. Old age spots, moles, skin tags, and a myriad of other skin problems have practically disappeared (I am 80 years old.) My skin is so good that my estheticians comment on it. I use his chocolate heart supplement but don’t have ways to review any results but it is natural and makes a good drink and is just a very small scoop and price wise great. Price wise VitaReds is affordable. I will definitely try his other products, with, of course, doctor’s approval. I purchased his products because he was well known and respected in the medical field. I also found Metagenics to be a great source of supplements as recommended by my chiropractic experience and recommendations…was on the Chiropractic 8 Weeks of Wellness program which was also a great experience. It has definitely improved my physical and mental state. Not only did I experience transformation but I saw others transform throughout the eight weeks. I would say Gundry has a point and should not be dismissed, I think his personal experience makes him a believable.

        I think any person wanting to experience health results should investigate options available to them, e.g., Dr. Oz, Dr. Gundry, and the Mayo Clinic Newsletter and Bottom Line Health Newsletter, the web, a holistic doctor, doctor of alternative medicine, etc. Not all programs fit all people. Case in point, when I was in college my boss at the NASA library on campus was very overweight and had tried a myriad of diets. About a year later I saw her on campus and almost did not recognize her. The campus doctors put her on a high fat diet and that triggered her weight loss (something most doctors avoided as a diet program). I think Gundry has the right approach and his experience as a heart doctor makes him rather authoritative. The problem is sorting out the quacks. I think the fact that so many doctors are now jumping on the medical newsletters and their own products it is difficult to discern what is factual and true. I find the issue is that there is a danger in a person trying to self-diagnose and self treat themselves without medical support using these products and any interactions. Which I note even Gundry does not have a following of other doctors recommending his protocol. So I am leery of trying the rest of his products. He, also, does not recommend being under the care of a doctor to see if there is an issue with a person’s medical conditions and medications which need to be addressed using his supplements, which I wish he would do and I am going to contact him about that. Will purchase more of his products after some more research and my annual physical and consultation with my holistic doctor. Also, finding a holistic doctor to monitor these products is also an issue as I find the regular medical establishment is wanting…case in point my cardiologists had not prescribed CoQ10 for heart health as did my other doctors. Any supplements from anyone can interfere with other prescriptions so that is one of my issues so they should have a physician they can trust and consult. By the way I did buy his Plant Paradox Cookbook for Family and am anxious to try out the recipes.

  9. Klad says:

    Instead, read this article by T. Colin Campbell, who picks Gundry assumptions apart.…

    1. Kate says:

      Oh my Gosh! Do you know who the author of this article is? He is the author of THE CHINA STUDY!! The grand daddy of all nutritional researchers. He is a Giant in his field and incredibly respected. He just buried Gundy in this article. Thanks for the post Klad.

    2. Chris says:

      Great reference – thanks!

    3. Gloria Price says:

      Thanks. Glad I read that article. My daughter recently had a gut problem. So listened to the whole video.
      Thought he was a little too slick.

  10. Don says:

    Soy? Soy? This is a major factor in the incredible longevity of the Okinawans. How can this doctor claim that soy is bad for you?

    1. Richard says:

      He is focused on getting very rich and your health is of little concern to him. However, people are so desperate to avoid the simple truth of science that anything supporting their food addictions sounds good to them.

      1. Steve says:

        –) He is focused on getting very rich and your health is of little concern to him.

        That’s pretty absurd. Gundry was a very famous cardiac doctor who patented quite a few medical devices. I think there’s *much* more money in that than there is peddling books and some supplements on his web site.

        One could argue it might be a “burn out” factor in traditional medicine, but it seems ridiculous to say he’s in this motivated purely for the money — especially considering the money he was previously making.

        1. Janus Eldbrum says:

          Stop simping for the quack doc duck

    2. Eva Suzuki says:

      He is probably referring to the soy from the U.S. My husband is Japanese and he eats soy products from Japan. Only.

    3. ja says:


    4. Geoff says:

      There is a much simpler explanation for the longevity of that generation of Okinawans. There was a deadly famine there during WWII, and only the strongest survived. Soy has nothing to do with it. The whole Okinawa fad is misconceived.

      1. Moneybags says:

        Probably. But so is the idea of avoiding lectins.

    5. Hannibal Lectin says:

      Why does he claim soy is bad? Because it happens to be true when soy is not prepared correctly. Correctly as in, after a long soak discarding soak water many times during a 24 hour soak, long fermentation or pressure cooking. Not sure why this message gets so buried. The early phase of diet is a useful elimination diet. Adding foods back in slowly once the gut has recovered. Why not just start the discussion with “Does pressure cooking, soaking, sprouting and fermentation reduce excess lectins in beans, grains and other foods?” The devil is in the details! Read the book yourselves. Try diet for yourself and see how you feel after a month. I disdain the cultural tendency of a population of adults looking to experts to make “educated” decisions for them. Make up your own minds based on your specific results.

    6. OldLady says:

      Because soy should only be eaten fermented, as in tofu, the way the
      Asians eat it. YOu need to look up the problems with soy. Also, I would like to know the credibility of all you people who think he’s a quack. What is your claim to fame.

  11. pfwag says:

    Only the rocks live forever. Living without dark chocolate coated almonds is not living.

    1. Joe says:

      This is approved in his book :/

  12. JKLM says:

    As opposed to what’s being manufactured… or what the mother is consuming.

  13. Dario says:

    hang on, at 31 minute mark ‘she took some guacamole AND SOME CHICKEN and felt sick’ – so it’s guacamole? How about the salmonella laden chicken!!!!

    Invite Dr Michael Greger on the next podcasts and find out what chicken can do to you please.

  14. Kristi Vice says:

    Are avocados a new world food? Why are they still good for us?

    1. You can read all about avocados and how good they are for you here:

  15. CH says:

    This is a load of crap. He is picking and often twisting his sources. If you read from the original sources you see that his version of the findings are almost opposite of what is being stated. A whole food based diet is the way to go. Including legumes and whole wheat. No oils or meat of any kind. Watch Knives over forks on Netflix.

    1. Dario says:

      I agree. When you listen carefully there seem to be whole bunch of holes in the story. He is a good salesman and because of his background he is very believable however I’ve since realised that just ain’t the case. Don’t use studies of ‘peanut oil’, how about whole peanuts. All twisted around.

    2. Joe says:

      correction, Forks over Knives, the full one hour documentary…

      1. Duff says:

        And it’s a steaming pile of crap. Gundry’s “research” is garbage but forks over knives is worse.

        1. Richard says:

          Please cite your evidence for your comment…

      2. Michelle says:

        I watched it. Amazing Documentary. I’m not even a vegetarian but this was an EYE openner!! I’ve suffered medically for thr last 15 yrs. No wonder!!!!

    3. Jorge Medeiros says:

      I read The Plant Paradox and, adopted the recommendations.

      In one week, I lost 10 pounds, my joint pains disappeared.

      I am 72 and, after 3 months, I am feeling 20 years younger.

      If Gundry is crap, despite his research, experience and testimonials, LONG LIVE THIS CRAP!

      1. Preston Jackson says:

        Amen, I agree with you !
        HDL went from 38 to 59 after 3 months of using the vital Reds of Dr Gundrys

        1. Jay says:

          The only reason your HDL went up is because of 200 mcg of Chromium in that Vital Reds. Rest not very convincing vis a vis HDL. By Gundry’s logic vast swaths of populations should be ill. Lectin mitigation is cultural. You soak your grains, pseudograins (seeds) and beans

      2. Glen K says:

        You an loose weight in a week eating almost any fad diet; that hardly means it’s the best or even healthy in the long run. TONS of research refutes most of Gundry’s claims, so follow his advice at your own peril. Some of his claims are especially ridiculous, such as the idea that we should avoid most fruits, and that eating a bowl of fruit is like eating a bowl of Skittles. In fact, scores of rigorous studies have demonstrated the health benefits of fruits, most of which are loaded with vitamins, minerals, fiber, and other nutrients, none of which Skittles has. If you can’t see the difference between someone like Dr Cambpell who provides solid references for his assertions, and Dr Grundy who often has none, or cites references that do not support his claims or even show the opposite, it’s a shame.

        1. Ian says:

          It’s Campbell who is the fraud! He’s an avid animal rights activist with a clear bias. In one of his books he describes how his experiments prove that animal protein causes problems including cancer – but fails to mention that the rats he used in testing were bred specifically to be vulnerable to colon cancer. That’s typical of his BS. He hammers animal protein in the book and if you search the book (electronic version) the word “gluten” never even appears once – yet it causes countless millions to suffer. Campbell is nothing short of a complete disgrace and insult to the science community. As for Gundry – I’ve seen no evidence of such a lack of integrity and much of his discourse makes sense. Campbell sees low carb diets as a fraud and has written so – but it’s the likes of him (on government committees) who has pushed the population into high carb, seed fats driven chronic disease and obesity.

        2. Matt says:

          you can refute all you want with speculation. the fact is he has produced a diet that actually tackles the immune responses caused by food. i’ve tried every diet i could find, and this is the only one with an immediate, noticeable effect. if you’re not willing to give it a try, then back away. shit or get off the pot. you have nothing to lose.

          paleo is the true wolf in sheeps clothing… too much protein is terrible for you.

          1. Barb says:

            What have you been following and with what form of success?

          2. Linda says:

            I think you guys need to get a DNA test and then make comments. It’s obvious that excess amounts of any thing is bad. I recently had a DNA test. It seems I have a higher need for protein than the average person. Am I going to go out and eat bucket loads of steak. Nope. Am I going to continue eating my vegitables and good fats. Yeap. Over 20 years ago I read the blood type diet and tweeked it to suit me. Now I am waiting for the Plant Paradox to arrive and I can guarantee I will not totally throw out what I have learnt but simply incorporate it into my diet. My DNA report told me about my abilities to excercise, burn fat, deposit fat, feel full, injure myself and heal ftom injury. Surely that is enough of an argument to proove that individuals need individualised diets. When I was younger I would have joined you in arguing my support for the latest fad diet. I now know that they all work in the beginning to some degree. For life long health you guys need to grow up, listen to your own bodies, read and stop preaching.

      3. Alisa says:

        Is your weight still off and do you still feel great

      4. Sally Dukette says:


      5. Harry reeves says:


      6. Tammy says:

        Ditto. I’m a believer. He opened my eyes as I was standing knee deep in over 1000 heirloom organic tomatoe plants i just grew and a new spring garden in full bloom – I was mad – look at the cover of his book! But after eliminating the lectins and following this diet. I immediately dropped 20 pounds i no longer ache my joints are like new my blood pressure is perfect i stopped having gut issues… I am 58 and very happy to know about gundrys research.
        Don’t be so critical – all of us are different and we are living in a very poisoned GMO environment. We have been messing with Mother Nature far too long If we want to be healthy we need to understand how food effects us, how it is grown, where it is grown – and the water!! Oh don’t get me started.

      7. Hannibal Lectin says:

        Jorge – Nice to see you do not herd mentality to thrive. Good for you!

        1. Tyler says:

          Yes, I have found that cutting out high lectin foods help me as well. After antibiotic use I noticed I started having all sorts of food intolerances. Guess what most of them are. High lectin foods. Still, without them, there is still plenty to eat. There are many nuts and vegetables that are low in lectins to have a well rounded diet. A more likely problem if you find that is not the case is that maybe your supermarket is not carrying them, which points to a deeper underlying issue which is actually a problem with the food system in modern culture. I do not agree with his idea that fruit causes weigh gain and only in season fruit should be eaten. That seems strange to me. But he used to be obese and maybe he gained weight from fruit. EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT. It was just in the news the other day that some people possess a unique bacteria in their gut that turns carbs (I think it was carbs, you can check me) into alcohol, enough to put you over the legal limit. Some people probably do gain weight eating fruit, or even cucumbers. Who’s to say that couldn’t be a possibility.

    4. Claus says:

      Wheat is bad for you no ifs or buts. Do some more research. It has the highest glycemic index of all grains so it spikes bloodsugar.

      It is one of the causes of diabetes 2 and gluten is a strong allergen and acts like growing medium for funguses (yeast) viruses and other pathogens if eaten excessively like every day. Make buckwheat bread it has no gluten at all and is healthy.

      1. Mo-G says:

        My father got Lewy Body Dementia and found out “Gluten” caused him to have tremors that resembled seizures. Even the “gel caps” from his meds, that had “Gluten” would trigger the seizure like tremors.

    5. Erica says:

      Great documentary. For me, I was raised a vegetarian. My mom was a vegetarian for 2 trimesters and ate small amounts of fish and chicken at the end of her pregnancy, only after her doctor recommended it (that was then). Unfortunately, I seem to not do well with wheat and soy. I also don’t do well with dairy and I question eggs.

      So I have small amounts of local animal protein occasionally and try to eat a gluten and dairy free diet with no nightshades and only well cooked beans occasionally, usually black or pinto beans or a heirloom variety.

      I wish I could just be a vegetarian but I get bloat d, tire, weak and anemic. Years of trying different supplements and cast iron cooking I found that bone broth and fish and helped best. Cured me me!

    6. ge says:

      I lived Forks over Knives or very close equivalent diet for 20 years or more. (And other than some modifications still agree.) But then I got into very serious difficulties. Inner ear problems, and joint pain. I now follow the low lectin diet recomendations of Dr. Gundry. Literally life saving with regard to inner ear problems (imagine waking up and not being able to walk, loosing your hearing, and throwing up everything you had previosuly eaten). But also my joint pain problems are almost completely gone. Almost–because I do occasionally stray a bit from the diet. And many of the lectin containing foods must be the cause, because I really begin to hurt, especially in writst first then fingers and other joints. Get back to the diet–pain all gone. This is almst exactly what is predicted in Dr. Gundry’s book. Dr Gunrry’s book is not in that great of conflict with Forks over Knives, except beans must be pressure cooked and probably limited in total consumption, and avoid the normal grains completely and use other fiber sources (there are many if you read the book). And yes whole foods — just not whole grains, not skins and seeds of nightshades. Forks over Knives recommends a nearly completely vegan diet, and so does Dr. Gundry. Just he does not push that as the first level of diet change, but that is very strongly emphasized if you read. But as to fat content I am experimenting–I have very excellent lipid profile eating higher fat, and if I avoid sugars I loose weight just as predicted. However I don’t have the nearly 100 total cholesterol that I had on Forks over Knives. There is some research needed here, the net effect is the issue not simply the tests. I have tracked references and don’t agree with the claims. Even in Dr Campbell’s critical review Campbell makes grave errors in his own references in his claims against Gundry. (I still hold Dr. Campbell in absolutely highest regard–even if disagree in places.)

  16. Ian says:

    As usual, nobody knows nothing! Is there any explanation for why obese people outnumber non-obese people? Do any of the people who have changed their diet in response to some diagnosis or another actually get better? It would appear that, “A conclusion is something that you reach when you have decided not to think any more”. Keep searching….


    1. m ng says:

      The American food industry via marketing has created and supported “fake” food that is largely sweet and fills the aisles of SUPERMARKETS! Gustatory sensibilities have been desensitized or were inadequately developed from early childhood. [Everything “should” taste the equivalent of Pablum, simple, bold, bland,…,.- This speaks to the success of the fast food industry where expectations are satisfied and there is virtually no need to actually “taste” the food. If they did, people might be disinclined to consume that fat, greasy, salted, sweet, spicy foods. By association and/or indoctrination, people “believe” that every bite is “heavenly.” [Are there obese folks in France??? – I have never seen one and I’m 76 y.o. with frequent travels world-wide. It’s the Americans who are obese! Another privilege(?) of our society.

    2. Shwetha says:

      The correct term is nobody knows anything. You worded it so that it means everyone knows something.

    3. Mo-G says:

      Ian, good point. I did the Atkins diet many moons ago and did great for a while. Blood pressure, all my blood value dropped to great levels. A year later I had emergency gall bladder surgery. Did not stay on that diet and all the weight loss doubled and then some. I agree with the comment made by Linda. We should all have our DNA checked to see what makes our bodies tick. You can also have your blood tested to see what foods your body is sensitive to. (Call ALCAT) This is an expensive test and I have not had it done yet but intend to in the future. Then we can manage our own bodies based on how our bodies react to things we did not know are hurting us. All doctor’s don’t have time to care about you, so you will have to do it for yourself.

  17. Allison says:

    This is the second interview I’ve heard with Dr. Gundry and it is fascinating. However, it’s also the second time I’ve heard him say this (I’m paraphrasing): “NONE of us are from here (i.e. the americas). None of us were eating nightshades before Columbus arrived. We are all from Africa, Europe, or Asia.”

    Excuse me? Please don’t perpetuate the invisibilization of native peoples. I actually want to know how they handled lectins in their diet, not necessarily what the Italians did when they got tomatoes because of colonization.

    Thanks for an educational interview and for considering my feedback.

    1. Ryan says:

      Dr. Gundry is correct – we are all from Africa, Europe or Asia. The “native peoples” in the Americas came from Africa, Europe, or Asia when you go back far enough. If we REALLY go back far enough, we’re all African (DNA evidence proves this). But major changes happened in European and Asian populations – enough to indicate significant differences.

      Natives from the Americas descend from these three; hence his comment is accurate.

    2. JKLM says:

      Maybe he isn’t talking about the Americas we aren’t from. Maybe he’s talking about the planet. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Just a thought.

    3. pfwag says:

      For whatever natural reasonS, native peoples didn’t live very long.

      1. Mo-G says:

        Maybe we should check into what Sasquatch is eating? Apparently he’s made it quite a long time. Lol

    4. Joe says:

      They are not from here either. They just got here a hundred years or so before us.

      1. Steven Smith says:

        Native peoples have been in the Americas for over 15,000 years.
        Lactose digestion persistence evolved (possibly independently) in societies which became pastorialists (Northwestern Europe, Mongolian Steppes, Bantu peoples) in the last 10,000 years. Lactose digestion normally turned off by 2 years old but pressure from the diet that cause early deaths in lactose intolerant children, pressured the genes of lactose persistence to dominate (evolved) and spread within 10,000 years so that 100% of Ireland has the gene.
        It is possible that Native Americans evolved similar digestive changes within the last 15,000 years to adapt them to their new diet.
        Gundry can only say for sure that European descendants haven’t been exposed long enough to American plants. He can’t make this assumption about the Osage, Mayan, Zapotec, etc. He studied the Natives of Panama and should know better about his assumptions.

    5. Glen K says:

      It’s just another of Gundry’s countless unfounded claims. The diet of various Native American tribes varied greatly, but besides the game they could catch (which was healthier than the farm raised meat of today) many woodland and eastern tribes ate a lot of nuts, seeds, yucca, maize, flatbread, various berries, and other things Gundry’ implies are bad for us or were not eaten by them. His central thesis that plants don’t want us to eat them is clearly false in the case of most fruits and nuts. In fact, such plants BENEFIT from animals (and humans) eating and carrying off their fruit, since it helps spread their seeds. That’s why most are tasty and appealing to us. He also lumps all lectins as equally evil and harmful, even tho research shows that there is a huge amount of variation in how they are handled by the body, which ones are inactivated by heat, etc.. In short, the vast bulk of rigorous research indicates that most fruits and vegetables are very healthy and that most Americans eat too little of both, even tho Gundry would have you eliminate most of them. He should be ashamed of himself for his shoddy research and profiting from his books expensive supplements, which in the long run is more likely to harm than help the people following it, even as he gets rich along the way.

      1. Matt says:

        you clearly haven’t read the book. most of what you just stated is inaccurate. you’re wasting everyone’s time with your conjecture.

      2. Dawn says:

        There are very few vegetables that are eliminated. By following this diet, I have dramatically increased my vegetable intake. Fruit is eaten in moderation and in season. Why is that a problem?

      3. Mike says:

        You evidently didn’t read the book carefully – go back and read the first couple of chapters where he in fact says plants do want to be eaten, and their seeds spread, but only when their seeds are capable of making it through the “predators” digestive track…and not before.

        1. Hannibal Lectin says:

          Thanks for the clarification Mike.

  18. Torsten Fischer says:

    I would be interested to find out more about the specific lab testing used to monitor the grade of inflammation in the body by Dr. Gundry`s laboratory. Are there specific markers to show progress in following the Plant Paradox protocols?

    Thank you!

    1. A basic measurement of anti-inflammatories via a full blood panel would show this. Like this:

    2. Richard says:

      Follow the money…

  19. Kevin says:

    In case you have not seen this, here is a scientific evidenced based view regarding lectins and the plant paradox, note this video plus the two video posted that follow thereafter.…

  20. Tom says:

    Dr G’s NutriBullet experience and pressure cooker comments at the end had me confused. Kale smoothies are awesome and if pressure cookers help the situation, why would you say there bad???

    Ben, loved that you called him out on the microwave recipes. Haven’t read the book but I’m hoping he would preface by saying “we shouldn’t be eating microwave food (because we should all be smarter than that), but if you’re lazy and can’t do it any other way, here’s how you can do it”.

    1. Christina says:

      Yes I was confused on the kale smoothie. Dr. Gundry has green smoothie recipes with spinach and romaine. Why those greens in a smoothie and not kale?

      1. I believe because of the higher amounts of potentially gut irritating compounds in kale.

        1. Jorge Medeiros says:

          I use kale, brocolli, cauliflower, flaxseed, avocado, ginger, some carrot.

          At 72, I have a 30 year’s old body and feel like 50.

          And follow the Plant Paradox recommendations.

  21. michael says:

    Ben, love everything you do. Please read this.…

    1. Janelle says:

      I appreciated this article review from a well-respected careful nutrition scientist who does not rely on products and publicity to fund his research.

      1. Jorge Medeiros says:

        On what does he rely on?

    1. Matt says:

      this doc is a dumdum. just defending his vegan lifestyle.

  22. Kari Gray says:

    This was, as usual, a very interesting podcast. My only comment is that the Dr Gundry referred to us has having not been exposed to the North American lectins until Columbus… this is a problem for me as it continues the narrative that the America’s were uninhabited until the white people “discovered” it. I understand he is clearly talking about people with a European, Asian, and African ancestry. However, I wish he’d have spoken to that.

    1. Steven Smith says:

      Yes, I find that disturbing also.

  23. Diane says:

    Dr. Gundry claims that tomato lectin is concentrated in the seeds and skins; however, the researchers who isolate lectin from tomatoes found the highest concentration in the juice (, specifically the locular fluid (

    I am one of those people who has noticed an increase in joint pain after eating tomatoes and a substantial improvement in health and sense of well-being after sticking to a diet very similar to the one described in The Plant Paradox book, but Dr. Gundry has not yet convinced me that it has anything to do with lectin.

    1. Jorge Medeiros says:

      Me too; in one week, I lost 10 pounds, around the waist, my joint pains disappeared,

      At 72; 153 pounds, exercising, I sport the same body of my 30s.

      Long live Dr Gundry!

      I used to eat a lot of all nightshades and whole grains; was feeling like an old and pain full old shit.

      Miracles happen, if you allow!

  24. Stan says:

    What’s your opinion on the neug5c mentioned in book?

    1. I haven't used it yet but I have it added into my protocol something to experiment with. Stay tuned.

      1. Pat Hancock says:

        There is nothing to use Ben he is talking about what is found in red meat that can cloak itself to be undetactable and cancer has been shown to bind to it to cloak cancer, it’s really not something to add to your protocol, that’s really hilarious

  25. Michael says:

    Are there any lectins in raw cacao, Ben?

    I wondered, because they do ferment chocolate, don’t they? So maybe that would be because of lectins.

    If there is and they’re much of a problem that’d be a shame, because it’s so delicious!

    1. It's actually relatively low in lectins so I would not worry about it too much…

  26. Richard Hay says:

    I believe in this podcast you mentioned avocados and avoid the avocado seeds.

    Can you comment on avocado seeds nutrition?

    1. Check this out- <a href="http:// -” target=”_blank”> <a href="http://-” target=”_blank”>- make sure to visit this too:

  27. Victor says:

    I think if you want to do a podcast to answer the question “Is Dr. Steven Gundry Wrong?”, you should probably interview someone other than Dr. Steven Gundry.

    Two great articles that point to some reasons for skepticism about his work:……

  28. Keith Mitchell says:

    What About Fiber content with the plant paradox diet? could you be getting too much fiber? especially if you change your animal protein to plant protein, like hemp?

  29. Gary says:

    Would juicing remove lectins? I got rid of my juicer in favor of nutrí bullet – but I do stream my vegetables before I blend – no runs to bathroom – I don’t juice because I want the fiber

  30. Karen Selick says:

    You should also add a link to Lectin Lock, a product similar to Dr. Gundry’s Lectin Shield, but much cheaper. I’ve used it for years and have no financial interest in promoting it. It’s sold by Vitamin Research Products.

  31. Thommo says:

    Ben, an interesting follow up would be an interview with this guy…

  32. Susan says:

    A lot of these foods are from the Nightshade family. Coincidence, or not?

    1. Ben Greenfield says:

      Definitely not. ;)

  33. Scott says:

    So what’s your take, Ben? Are lectins really that bad for most people?

  34. Randy James says:

    What is the issue with stevia? No one elaborated on Dr Gundry’s comment st the end of the show.

  35. Bill Montgomery says:

    Is he saying don’t make a kale smoothie?

  36. Diane James says:

    In a short youtube video, Dr Gundry identifies 4 “Fake” health foods that he considers”fake” due to their Lectin content: cashews, soya, wheat grass, and beans. I am wondering about the organify green juice as it has a significant amount of wheat grass. I have stopped buying Bulletproof collagen protein bars as they have a significant amount of ground cashews. Any comment?

  37. David says:

    Haha, when are you going to have someone on the podcast that thinks breast milk is harmful?

  38. Bonnie Segger says:

    I am trying to find out if there is a link to Dr. Gundry’s Plant Paradox and Dr. Peter J. D’Adamo’s Blood Type Diet. Dr. D’Adamo teaches that the lectins of different foods are reactive to the different blood type categories, so, for instance, an O Blood Type can handle tomato lectins, etc. Do you have an information about this? Thank you!

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