[Transcript] – The Shocking Truth About You Getting “EMF’D”: 5G, Wi-Fi & Cell Phones – Hidden Harms & How To Protect Yourself

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/lifestyle-podcasts/5g-dangers/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:48] About This Podcast

[00:01:32] Podcast Sponsors

[00:04:11] Podcast and Guest Introduction

[00:07:25] Why Dr. Mercola Wrote This New Book

[00:08:30] Dr. Mercola's New Strategy for Creating Content

[00:12:28] New Resources to Share

[00:22:00] Why does the public not accept that EMF is a serious danger to their health?

[00:32:13] What's 5G, exactly, and why would folks want it in the first place?

[00:43:00] Podcast Sponsors

[00:46:36] How to Mitigate NAD Damage From EMF

[01:03:22] How to Activate the NRF2 Pathway

[01:06:28] Why Magnesium Is A Good Supplement and The Best Forms to Take

[01:11:36] Technologies That Can Repair the Damage Caused By EMF

[01:16:12] Measuring Devices

[01:21:18] Read Free Chapters from EMF*D

[01:23:36] End of Podcast 

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

Joseph:  Ad agency zones every one of them and they have Google ads and they sell ads for drugs. So, they have an article about a condition in a drug ad right on the same page, which is a 100% illegal. If you take someone healthy, but their NAD level is going to go down literally A to a hundredfold, it just doesn't decrease slowly over time and it falls off a cliff. It's actually the industry itself. There's a whole consortium of wireless industry that's behind the scenes.

Ben:  Explain that to me.

Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

Alright, folks. I hope you are not listening to today's episode on any kind of device phone or computer or anything like that because you're about to get your mind-blown by my guest, author of the book ““EMF*D”.” Just listen on like a paper cup with the old-school cable coming out of it, the way we used to talk on telephones because otherwise, you're just going to be scared to death from today's show. It's not that bad, but do listen, do listen with an open ear and an open mind because my guest has written a fantastic book about all things 5G EMF and beyond, and you're going to want to pay attention.

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Alright, let's go talk to Dr. Mercola.

Alright. So, two days ago, I sat all afternoon absolutely just slack-jawed at this book, a brand new book that just came out, not only slack-jawed but shocked at just chapter after chapter after chapter about everything from 5G to Wi-Fi to cell phones. And obviously, as you guys know, I've had podcasts in the past. I've interviewed Brian Hoyer, who came over to my house and did a big walkthrough of my house and analyzed the EMF and the dirty electricity and all the different things that he could analyze with meters in my home. I also did a podcast with the guy who wrote The “Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs,” Nick Pineault, which was also a good show.

But as far as the most comprehensive guide that I have ever come across when it comes to everything that you need to know about EMFs, how to protect yourself and where they're hidden, and how to understand and comprehend this new 5G rollout, there's nothing better than this brand new book that just came out. It has a great title. It's called “EMF*D.” I got to ask my guest on today's show who came up with that title because it's absolutely fantastic. And the author is someone you may be familiar with. He's a multi-time repeat guest on this podcast. I'm going to link to all of his other appearances on this show, as well as everything that we talk about in today's show if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/emfd, as in BenGreenfieldFitness.com/E-M-F-D.

His name is Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's a physician, he's a New York Times bestselling author, he's been voted by Huffington Post as the ultimate wellness game-changer, he's been all over Time magazine, L.A. Times, CNN, Fox News, ABC, Today, The Dr. Oz Show. He's got one of the most popular websites on the planet when it comes to natural medicine, alternative medicine. Unfortunately, a website that–and I don't even know if we have time to get into this and today's show has been penalized by Google just for everything that it gets into that's the type of information that frankly, Big Pharma and Beyond does not want you to hear. But fortunately, you've got him right here on the show, and today, we're going to delve into this topic that's a hot topic right now, an incredibly important for you and your loved ones, the issue with EMFs.

So, Joe, welcome back to the show, man.

Joseph:  Well, thanks for having me.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  It's great to be here again.

Ben:  Yeah. And whenever I talk to you, whether you're walking on the beach and you're in your bare feet or whether you're talking on your phone on a selfie stick sometimes, I mean like you're pretty into this idea of not only treating the human body as a battery but also being aware of what might affect that battery's charge in a very profound way. I'm curious why you actually decided to write an entire book on EMFs.

Joseph:  Well, it's great question. First of all, the best book on this topic prior to this book, I believe, was Nick Pineault's book with, I guess you mentioned earlier, the non-tinfoil hat. He and Brian Hoyer both reviewed this book, but what catalyzed me writing it was a deep appreciation a few years ago of the importance of mitochondrial function. And one of my early medical mentors, Dr. Dietrich Klinghard, who has also been a long-time advocate of EMF safety, kind of catalyzed my serious investigation of this. And I connected the two and it's very clear that EMF just causes massive mitochondrial dysfunction. So, I thought that it would be important to do that, to put together the information in a way the public can understand. I've written about 14 books, but this is my last one, at least five or ten years because I've got a new strategy for creating content.

Ben:  New strat. Okay. I got to hear about this new strategy. You've always got something new you're up to. I think last time we talked, you pulled me from the gym and put these blood flow restriction bans on me and just blasted me with those. You've always got something new up your sleeve, but this idea of mitochondrial dysfunction is something that I've harped on over and over again on the show. If you have nutrition and a movement pattern set up the right way, then it all comes down to light, and the planet Earth, and heat, and cold, and water, and minerals, and it really is the mitochondria, the core of your health.

You realize that EMFs are one of the primary ways our mitochondria get damaged and not a lot of people are talking about that. Like you mentioned, Nick Pineault is one of the guys. Brian Hoyer is another, but man, oh man, there's a huge need for this kind of information to get out there. Before we delve into it, I want to hear about this strategy you're teasing us with for creating content.

Joseph:  Well, just to reinforce the concept of the mitochondria, I was just reviewing a study this morning in aging cell in December of this year. It really stressed the importance of mitochondrial numbers for improving senescent cells. And senescent cells are really sort of the beginning of the death of your body because it creates this massive inflammatory reaction and secrete inflammatory cytokines.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, especially as you age. When you're young, you can arguably benefit from that amount of cellular senescence just because it's a protective biological mechanism. Yeah, the older you get, the role of senescence appears to be linked to a host of chronic diseases.

Joseph:  Yes, indeed. So, let me tell you that my strategy for creating content was partially inspired by you because it's very unusual for someone to create a book that's 1,200 pages and has 3,000 references as your new book, “Boundless” does. That really startled me to hear that and I said, “Wow, it was totally different than the strategy I was using.” So, that was a factor. And then we were both at Mindshare earlier this year with JJ Virgin. Actually, and Dave Asprey was there and we were one of her private parties. So, Dave was having his conversation and I was in it and he's talking about Ryan Holiday's “Perennial Seller,” that's right.

Ben:  Oh, yes.

Joseph:  Yeah. So, I picked up that book. If [00:10:47] ______ a book–I mean, to me, it's just really negligent not to read that book first because it really has some powerful pearls in there.

Ben:  All of his books, by the way. I mean, Ryan's one of those few authors where if he writes a book, I'll buy it without even reading any reviews or anything. They're that good. His recent book, “Stillness Is the Key” is amazing, but you read this “Perennial Seller” book?

Joseph:  Yes, I did. A lot of good information there, but essentially is that if you want to create a book that's going to be read for decades, not just a few weeks after you launch it, then you have to put a lot of time and effort into it. Exactly what you were doing. And it's going to go through a lot of drafts because the first few drafts are terrible. And that's what I did with this “EMF*D” book. I mean, it took me three years to write it, just about as long as it took you to write “Boundless.” And even though it's not 1,200 pages, I rewrote the thing five or six times. I mean, it just went through so many different drafts. That's why I really like the end product because it really did follow a lot of Ryan's recommendations.

But I've gotten tired of the process after 13, 14 books and I've just disenamored with it. So, rather than write more books, I decided to write scientific reviews for journals because I used to do that. I've got like 20 or 30 publications already, but I haven't written one for 20 years. So, in the process of doing that, I realized that virtually no one, at least that I'm listening to on the internet on podcast, I've never heard anyone open the kimono and tell people, listeners, how they can truly be citizen scientists and not believe what you or I say and go and dig into the research and look it up for themselves. Now, admittedly, that takes time, but you've got to know the tools how to do that, and that's what I'd like to share.

Ben:  Okay. So, basically, you have this way that you're collecting scientific reviews, because I know the last time I interviewed you, you hinted at some different publications that you subscribe to–and I'll link to that show so people can go back and listen in, but is it like a variant of that or what exactly are the resources that you're using?

Joseph:  Well, it is that specifically, but when I discussed it with you, it was in beta version and now they just launched and it's open to the public. So, anyone can join and you can't beat the subscription fee, it's free. But one of the reasons I'm doing this content thing is I've got access to an unbelievable science editor, really one of the most brilliant and humble biochemist and molecular biology people that I know. He is actually going to review the science for me in all these papers. I actually introduced him to you and you did a podcast with him, and I actually sent you an email that he compiled that you were at and we're impressed with. He's quite the man, Tyler LeBaron.

Ben:  Oh, dude. Tyler is awesome. I mean, not only because he can run a marathon, a deadlift like 400 pounds, but he was training for the marathon Olympic trials I think the last time I talked to him.

Joseph:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  He's super smart. Last time I saw him, he was at Paleo f(x) in a suit cranking out muscle-ups and one-arm pull-ups in between the talks that he was giving. I'll link to the podcast I did with him for folks who are listening in. So, Tyler is doing your scientific research now?

Joseph:  If you want, I can give you the link to the–someone recorded those one-arm pull-ups in his suit in the gym. I can give you the link to that. It was on like Instagram or Twitter.

Ben:  Yeah. I'll put it in the shownotes.

Joseph:  Yeah. Alright. So, here's the thing. Really the secret sauce, it's called RSS feeds. I'm sure you know what that is, but for those who don't, it stands for Really Simple Syndication. And essentially, it's an easy way to stay up to date with your favorite websites, blogs, online magazines, or in this case, PubMed, which is the key to the treasures to find out what's the truth in health and science. So, it's using this RSS feed. In fact, RSS feeds were what we used basically since the inception of our website. And in 2005, Google launched their own called Google Reader, which is really pretty good, but they took it down six years ago. But we still use versions of that to find the content of our site because it makes it so much easier. If Google Reader was up, I still wouldn't use it because —

Ben:  Yeah. I mean, I use, by the way, Feedly.

Joseph:  Feedly. Yeah. That is the alternative that we use. We have subscription to that. It allows you to easily collect and go to all these different sites and just–this is so much more efficient.

Ben:  Right. And just to clarify for our listeners, all this means is let's say there's like 12 different blogs that you like to read. Maybe you're not even into reading scientific research articles, you just follow these blogs. You don't want to remember every day, “Oh, I need to go check X's blog, Y's blog, and Z's blog.” You simply have a feed reader installed on your browser tab that allows you to review, receive notice, and aggregate in one spot every single blog post that's released from any RSS feed that you follow or podcasts or anything else for that matter in one single location.

Joseph:  Yeah. That's it. So, I love Feedly, but I don't love Google. And I'm not going to go deep into it, but I just want everyone to know that Google is the biggest monopoly in the world and they have an agenda, and the agenda is not for your purpose. They are stealing your privacy. They really have some devious and nefarious plans for the future. And I would strongly, strongly recommend to [00:16:04] ______ using Google. So, that means don't use Google search engine. The best one out there is Qwant, Q-W-A-N-T. Do not use Chrome. Chrome is bad news. Use Brave, B-R-A-V-E. And Brave actually has the opportunity to–which honors your privacy, doesn't steal it or sell it. And you can use Qwant as a search engine through that.

Ben:  Okay. So, you use Brave as your browser and then you use Qwant as a search engine within Brave?

Joseph:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Okay.

Joseph:  Now, you may need to use Google as a search engine occasionally because they do have some nice features, but it shouldn't be your primary search engine.

Ben:  And that's primarily because of privacy, and also because they're blocking the results. They're essentially censoring some of the results that you get.

Joseph:  Yeah. I mean, they've not just censored me. I mean, our traffic from the search engines is dropped by 600,000 views a day because they took us out. Now, we're still the most visited natural health site on the planet, but it impairs our mission to tell the truth to more people and it's sad that they —

Ben:  Yeah. There is, by the way, a very good Reddit thread because this is on my radar. I want to do it over the holidays to migrate from Chrome to Brave. There's a good Reddit thread to show you how to import all your bookmarks and everything like that.

Joseph:  Oh, it's so easy. They're based on the same software platform, which is called Chromium. So, your favorites, transfer your bookmarks, it just takes a few minutes, so it's not a hard transition at all. But let's get to the good stuff now, which is the RSS feed you can use for PubMed. It never existed. This is essentially the Feedly for PubMed. Unbelievable. It's called meta.org, M-E-T-A.org. As I said earlier, it used to be in beta for a few years and just late this 2019 and they opened it up. It essentially allows you to search for terms. I'm following 100 different terms in PubMed. In some terms, you can be an author. Like, there was an author that I'm–one of my passions now is carnosine, so I'm following one of the top researchers in carnosine. He hadn't published an article for two years, and yesterday, his article pops up because it's searching all 100 terms every day. It's crazy.

Ben:  And do you get those notices into your email inbox? Or how are you accessing the notices?

Joseph:  No, no, no. It's a cloud-based service, so you can open a tab on your browser and you just go to that tab and all the articles are there. You can read them or delete them or you can store them in a library. It's just unbelievable.

Ben:  Fantastic.

Joseph:  It makes compiling your research so much easier. So, highly, highly recommended. And then the other thing is–okay. So, you find the articles. That's the first step is you got to find them. Then you want to read them. Now, certainly, you can read the abstract, but the abstract is not where the gold is. The nuggets are in the actual study itself, especially if it's a review article. An abstract of a review article is close to worthless, so it won't tell you what it's going to talk about.

So, how do you get those? Well, the good thing is about a third of the articles are now free on PubMed, which is a good thing. But there's another tool–actually, there's a few tools that you could use. Some of them if I mention them on your site, they'd probably be taken down, so I can't share them. But one is called ResearchGate. Just like it sounds, researchgate.com.

Ben:  Yeah. I'm familiar with that one.

Joseph:  Yeah. And if you just go to their site, you can type in the–not type in, just copy and paste the title of the article. There's a good chance it might come up. And if it's not, well, you'd have to be a member to actually contact the author. But if you are a member, you have to be sort of a published author before they accept you, then you can actually write the authors and they can send you a copy of it, which is really pretty good.

Ben:  Yeah, because sometimes if you're doing a very quick abstract review, you're not seeing whether it's a theoretical paper versus empirical research or original research, meta-analysis versus systematic review. You can get some of that, but I mean–you really cannot delve into your methods, right, like questionnaire and survey versus experimental. When you look at the results, often if you look at the tables and the figures and form your own impression of the findings and the results of a statistical analysis, in many cases, it's far different than what you might have expected to see based on the conclusion that they came to in the abstract. Even the discussion and the conclusion section, I've seen in many cases, a study will make a concrete statement such as proved whereas hypotheses can be supported, not proven, or they'll talk in causal terms and all the data is correlational. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, it can be a game-changer to be able to go past the abstracts and actually dig into the research.

Joseph:  Yeah. So, it is really cool. And especially when you've acquired a certain depth of knowledge and you can actually find these connections, I swear it is like going on a treasure hunt. It is like one of my biggest joys in life to do this. I've just started this process and I've written one full paper. It was on blood flow restriction training and I'm actually just in the process of submitting it for review now.

Ben:  Oh, nice.

Joseph:  And once it gets published, I'd like to make it available for your readers. Actually, I put together a PDF that compiled all this in lay term that we can publish. They had put some videos and it kind of summarizes what we went over when we were in San Diego and go over your  blood flow restriction. But just go to bfr.mercola.com and your listeners can download that.

Ben:  Bfr.mercola. Okay. I'll link to that in the shownotes. By the way, I did a double back to back Tabata set on the Vasper this morning, which is BFR training is you do a seven-minute warmup, and then the first four minutes —

Joseph:  Well, it's not true BFR. Just to be–

Ben:  Yeah. Folks, we probably don't have time to rabbit hole too deeply and folks I'm sure can read your scientific articles a little bit more like occlusion than true BFR. But regardless, I still got a pretty hefty pump on from that workout in a couple of hours —

Joseph:  Nice. No, that's interesting. If you got a pump, then it probably wasn't–

Ben:  Yeah. It was definitely just something. Okay. So, let's get back to your book because this is all fantastic that you've got a different way of writing books and you have a very efficient way of delving through some of these scientific resources, and now you yourself are beginning to publish these scientific papers, which is fantastic. And you also have found alternatives to some of it, not getting censored by Google, such as using this Brave browser with the Qwant‘s search function. But back to the book, I think that a very, very good place to start is the fact that most people at this point still do not understand how serious a danger EMF is to their health. And I'm curious with folks like Nick and you out there, why that is, why doesn't the public still accept that EMF is a serious danger to their health?

Joseph:  That is a fantastic question. There's a lot of good reasons for it. So, it's not to get frustrated and annoyed with the public because there's so many factors working against them and it's all delivered and very targeted in a sophisticated process. But let's go back to 2011, essentially, nine years ago when the World Health Organization actually classified cell phones as a class 2B carcinogen, which means it's a possible carcinogen. But then just last year in 2018, the National Toxicology Program which was a $25-million study funded by the NIH actually showed pretty conclusively that cell phone exposure causes cancer, which means it's a class 1 carcinogen. It causes cancer and —

Ben:  What kind of cancer?

Joseph:  It was brain cancer and I believe–I think it was brain cancer. It might have been a gastric cancer though, too. So, anyway, it's a class 1 carcinogen. The best simple answer though to the question is that cell phones without any doubt in my mind, especially after doing a deep dive on this out of the cigarettes, of the 21st century, and just like cigarettes, you do not die from a media exposure. You don't even get sick typically. You're going to die slowly. It takes years, decades, many decades in most cases. And just like tobacco, the companies that are peddling this stuff knew it killed their customers. And interestingly —

Ben:  Wait, wait, you're saying the cell phone companies know that EMFs from cell phones can contribute to cancer or cause cancer?

Joseph:  They absolutely know this. The evidence will come out in depositions —

Ben:  How do you know they know this?

Joseph:  Because they have the same published study. It's using the NTP study that was cited. The lead project, they actually came up with some pretty disparaging comments on this, then he got fired and they tried to re-spin the results of that study, which was initially done to disprove this hypothesis [00:25:00] ______ so they had to downplay it. But there are thousands and thousands of studies that show this and they have access to this. They know it. So, eventually, when the state attorney general sued them 20, 30 years from now and the depositions come out, it'll come out on their emails and just make them very clear, just like they did with the tobacco companies. And the tobacco industry knew this in 1950.

Ben:  The tobacco industry knew how dangerous cigarettes were and they figured out a way to ensure that the public was not aware of that knowledge?

Joseph:  Yeah, absolutely. And how did they do it? They hired the best PR firms on the planet. And these PR firms were clever and sophisticated and they did their job. And part of their job is to create doubt and confusion in the public, and that's what they did. In fact, there's several movies on, the “Merchants of Doubt” is one, and books that are written under the specific strategies they use. They create doubt and they create controversy so that if some credible scientist comes up, not only do they spin off a dozen other studies from scientists that they paid to disparage this and discredit this, but they actually discredit that researcher. And just like Monsanto does. They actually get them fired from the position and it becomes a real challenge because most of these researchers are not rich. I mean, they're living hand and mouth like most people and they lose their position. It's a big challenge.

Ben:  So, you're saying would it be a cell phone manufacturer like, say, Apple or Samsung, or would it be a network like AT&T and Verizon or something like that that would be hiring PR agencies to discredit researchers?

Joseph:  It's actually the industry itself. So, there's a whole consortium of wireless industry that's behind the scenes.

Ben:  Explain that to me.

Joseph:  Yeah. Well, these are the people, the lobbyists who–the lobbyists are probably one of the biggest things and part of it–and just to give you an example here–in the process of giving this example, I'll explain it. The other strategy that they use is they captured the federal regulatory agencies with which the tobacco industry never was able to do. You had the EPA, the surgeon general, the CDC all warning people about smoking. And despite those warnings, they still continued successfully selling them for another 20 or 30 years.

So, the wireless industry is much smarter. They have captured the federal regulatory issues. And as an example of this, the chief lobbyist for the wireless industry, Tom Wheeler was appointed by President Obama for four years to be the head of the FCC, which is the most egregious example of the fox guarding the henhouse. And in fact, just yesterday, Ben, the FCC announced that they are going to spend $6 billion, billion with a “B” to spread 5G in rural communities.

Ben:  Well, I want to talk later on about why that's an issue because it freaking scares me right now. I do want to get into that, but essentially, I know that one organization–I believe you talked about that organization in the book. It was the National Cable and Telecommunications Association, which I think is now the Internet and Television Association, but used to be the National Cable and Telecommunications Association that back–I told my boys about this and it pissed them off, little 11-year-old boys. I told them about the Telecommunications Act of 1996 after I read your book that basically gives this enormous concession to the wireless industry that basically silences our say in where and how these wireless infrastructures are built. There's a section there that I think essentially it says that no state or local government can, in any way, regulate where towers get placed, how things are constructed, any modification of personal like wireless service facilities. Essentially, it means that the telecommunications industry is able to install cell towers wherever they want.

Joseph:  And the point you left out was even if it's based on documented health problems or complications. So, that law that was passed in 1996, Telecommunications Act, is essentially the equivalent in the vaccine world of the Vaccine Compensation Act, which essentially got passed in 1985.

Ben:  Careful how much you say the word vaccines because all my podcasts get transcribed. I don't want to get penalized by Google like you did.

Joseph:  Yeah. It really changed. That federal legislation essentially immunized all the vaccine manufactures from any legal action.

Ben:  Even if the vaccines were shown to be harmful?

Joseph:  Yeah. Unless that was intentional, which is this is rare small little area that they're liable for, but it's essentially almost not existed. So, they can kill people till the cows come home and never being liable for it.

Ben:  Yeah. And again, the goal for this podcast for those of you listening in is not necessarily to give you the complete rundown on how cell phones are truly the cigarettes of the 21st century, which I am convinced is the case after reading Joe's book. It's to instead give you a little bit of a background. You can get his book to delve into the long story about how the telecommunications industry is working with PR agencies and lobbyists to discredit researchers and to essentially shove a lot of this research. And I dug into the research after looking at Joe's book and there is indeed a lot of evidence in terms of the biological damage of this stuff. And I think we'll have a chance to explain a little bit of that today about–specifically, I want to talk about how it affects things like NAD pathways and some of the things that I know that my listeners are concerned with.

But the way I explained this to my boys again–because I try to pass on the knowledge of what I read in my books to my children. I think that's one of the best things you can do. If you can spend all your time reading, you might as well at least educate your loved ones and those around you. They get $30 for any book that they take off my shelf that has a bunch of pages folded over. If they write a one-page report on that book, then they get $30, and that's just the way they can make money anytime they want. They go to my library, grab any book, any one that has all the pages folded over, and they'll get paid to read it.

But what I explained to them was that the problem is that arguably, cell phones are a bigger issue than cigarettes because even though there's some secondhand smoke from cigarettes, you can largely escape most of the biological damage from cigarettes with air filters, with avoiding buildings where people are smoking, et cetera. But with cell phones, because the towers are now everywhere and with this 5G rollout, which I want to talk with you about, you can't escape it. Like you have no option when that airplane is landing that metal tube and 75 people switch on their cell phones all with one bar of reception, and the Wi-Fi signal now is going on the airplane the entire time. That's just one single example that I'm exposed to a lot. But you can't escape it now. It's not like cigarettes where you can just walk away.

Joseph:  Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better. No question. It's pervasive and it's getting worse, and no question it's getting worse, and we'll talk about that. It's like 5G is coming. Everyone has heard about that.

Ben:  That's what I really want to talk about because although there's a whole bunch of different forms of EMF, dirty electricity, RF, non-native EMF that you talk about in your book, 5G is a big component of your book. And because that's something that's getting rolled out all over the place right now, I want to talk about that and what it is. But I also have a question. I don't want to throw too much of a curveball at you. But before we delve into 5G, well, this is actually related to 5G, do you know why about two weeks ago, although I live out in the middle of the forest where there's none of these 5G panels that I'm aware of, my phone suddenly switched to 5G unless I have the LTE disabled on it, do you know why that would have occurred?

Joseph:  Well, I have a question for you first. Who's your carrier?

Ben:  AT&T.

Joseph:  AT&T, I was going to say. I don't know if you remember back when we were all on 3G. Oh, I know what I remembered I wanted to say now with that NTP study. That NTP study that proved that cell phones, the radiation exposure is a class 1 carcinogen, that study was done with 2 and 3G, not 4G, or even 5G. So, anyway, getting back to the reason why. If you remember back to when we had 3G?

Ben:  Mm-hmm.

Joseph:  AT&T did the same dirty trick.

Ben:  Joe, by the way, I remember back to when my dad had the giant brick-sized cell phone in the car.

Joseph:  Okay, okay. That's good. But do you remember that–there were a lot of articles about it because they were essentially scamming people, deluding them into thinking they were getting 4G and they weren't. It's not technically illegal, it's just fraudulent. They're putting this 5G moniker on there. It's not 5G in any way, shape, or form. That phone probably doesn't even have the capacity. It doesn't have the chip to receive 5G signals.

Ben:  So, technically, even though it says 5G, when I'm out in the middle of the forest where I'm at, I don't have to disable LTE. Technically, it's not true that it's truly producing a 5G signal?

Joseph:  Yeah. And here's the thing to do.

Ben:  That's good to know.

Joseph:  If your phone–it's a smartphone as it probably is, you just go to a browser, you type in fast.com, F-A-S-T.com and then you see what the bandwidth speed is. If it's 4G, it's probably not going to be more than 10 megs per second. I mean, you might go a little bit more, but not much more. If it's 5G, you're at 5, 6, 7, 800 megs a second. It's 100 times faster, 100 times.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  So, I can almost guarantee it some sort of another dirty AT&T trick.

Ben:  Regardless, my wife and I, whenever we travel outside of our house, we switch the LTE off just so we're not picking up 5G signals anymore, but we digress. What is 5G exactly and why would people even want 5G in the first place? What's so great about 5G?

Joseph:  Well, as I alluded to, it's the speed. There's no question.

Ben:  So, just the speed?

Joseph:  It's 100 times faster. Yeah, that is the primary benefit. There's a lot of details I go to in the book, but there's so much more to go into than this. I mean, just know that faster is going to be pervasive. And here's the big reason why it's going to be pervasive. Well, first of all, most people don't need it. I mean, how many times have you on your phone said, “God, I wish my phone was faster”? I mean that was totally true in 3G, and 4G was a big benefit, but it's not true–4G is fast enough for most of us, unless you're downloading video or something.

Ben:  I like to smoke weed at night and surf through my Instagram feed and I always wish that–that's how I spend my evenings as you know. I always wish it's fast when I'm doing that.

Joseph:  Yeah, right. Okay. But for commercial use, it may be the benefit for self-driving cars, and there may be some other commercial applications. But for personal use, probably not. But here's what to know about 5G, and this is not widely known at all. I'm a big fan of Elon Musk and I've had a Tesla now for probably close to eight years. But he's got another company called SpaceX. And SpaceX has got this project called Starlink, which is essentially going to shower the entire planet with 5G. Just last month, they've submitted proposal for another 30,000 satellites. They already had permission for 12. That brings it to 42,000 satellites. These are low Earth orbit flying satellites, but 200 miles up. Most satellites are about 20,000 miles up or 2,000, 2,000 or 20,000, but it's a lot higher, at least 10 to 200 times higher. So, they're going to saturate the entire planet with 5G internet. You cannot escape it, no matter where you live. It's going to be the entire globe.

Ben:  How about the safety of it? Talk to me about the safety. And I believe you call it the millimeter-wave that's being used for 5G. Why would that be an issue, and have any safety studies been done on it?

Joseph:  Well, that's a great question. There have been no, zero, nada. Now, one safety study has ever been done on 5G.

Ben:  How about any studies on millimeter waves and their safety?

Joseph:  None that I'm aware of.

Ben:  Okay.

Joseph:  It may be the case, but I believe that's the same status because it is a–5G is complex because it's not just one frequency. See, the frequency of 4G is typically around 2 to 5 gigahertz, and 5G is going to be significantly higher, probably 20, 30 gigahertz initially, maybe even up to 80 gigahertz, which makes it a problem for a lot of ways because we don't really have inexpensive meters to measure that, which we can talk about. But typically, these inexpensive meters are only under $200 and they're pretty good, and you can find out where your exposures are. But these meters don't exist for 5G yet. I mean, they're going to come, but they're not out.

Ben:  So, what you're saying is there's no studies that show that 5G is going to be harmful?

Joseph:  I guess you could spin it that way, but by implication or inference, you can use the studies that have already been done on 2, 3 and 4G that we know it's harmful. It's only going to be worse. It's not going to be better.

Ben:  Is the phone still accessing any of these 2, 3 or 4 when it's in 5G mode?

Joseph:  It depends. It's going to be a transition. It's going to be years before you get complete 5G rollout. And then because of the specific mechanics of 5G distribution, it doesn't go very long so you need a lot of transmitters, you need like essentially a mini cell phone tower like every five or six houses on your block. And so that's part of the reason why the FCC committed $6 billion for infrastructure in the rural areas. It kind of reminds me of the electrification process in the 1950s to get electricity, but this one's more dangerous. It's going to be a long time before it's out there, and then because of the way that's distributed, if 5G is not available, it's going to automatically go back to 4G or even through —

Ben:  Yeah, but I mean, I don't know. For me, rolling out 5G without actually conducting safety studies on it seems irresponsible if that is indeed the case, that no safety studies have ever been conducted on it. Do you think there's ever been any kind of internal testing in the telecommunications industry on it or anything like that?

Joseph:  No. I don't know. I would guess not. I don't know that they would expose themselves to that type of potential future liability. But the issue is there's no question it's going to cause problem.

Ben:  I hear a lot about the effect of these small millimeter waves on things like animals or plants, like the biological impact of putting all these towers everywhere. Has anybody ever looked into that?

Joseph:  Oh, yeah. That's been well-documented. In fact, one of my favorite researchers, Martin Polz, wrote a nice paper on that a few years ago. It works on a similar mechanism, at least in his theory of these voltage-gated calcium channels. But these channels or similar channels like them are essentially in most all biological life, certainly in animals, other animals, and plants and insects, trees. When you start flooding the planet with these frequencies, there's going to be consequences, biological consequences. And actually, one of the subtitles for the book, maybe the original title was going to be “The Existential Threat to Humanity.”

And it does [00:40:22] ______ because you have this pervasive exposure and one of the consequences biologically is you can get arrhythmias, you can get [00:40:29] ______ the 4As, the arrhythmias, autism, or 3As, and Alzheimer's. So, you've got autism on the low-end spectrum with maybe 50% of the population having this type of developmental delay and impaired neurology. And then you've got 50% of the elderly population coming down with Alzheimer's. And then you've got infertility, which is increasing massively, largely [00:40:51] ______ these frequencies, that is a prescription for biological disaster. How can a society continue to be sustained in those circumstances? It can't. You distinguish.

Ben:  Yeah. And to be fair, that's all correlation not causation, but the big picture would be that it's basically right now a giant health experiment.

Joseph:  Yes, yes, that we had no control. We're just volunteer guinea pigs in this experiment.

Ben:  If we weren't going to use 5G and we wanted to get this kind of speed distributed throughout cities, what would be the type of alternative if we weren't going to roll a 5G?

Joseph:  Essentially, the alternative that we had when or similar to that, when we all started first using the internet in the last century. How many people accessed the internet wirelessly before the year 2000? Virtually, no one. It was always through a wire. Typically in the early 1990s, it was through your phone wire.

Ben:  Yeah. It went a little bit something like this–it's like “Dumb and Dumber,” the most annoying sound in the world.

Joseph:  Yeah, but then it progressed faster and faster. But really, most of the wireless connection didn't really start until the mid-2000s shortly after the iPhone first came out in 2007. So, there was not. I mean, we have smartphones. We had some, but they were pretty primitive, 2005 or so. People were not accessing the internet on the phone. That's for sure. And there's not as many people had wireless routers back then. It was a wired cable.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you're saying like instead of 5G —

Joseph:  Instead of 5G, use a fiber optic cable. Here's the thing, it's faster, it's safer, and it's cheaper.

Ben:  But most cities right now, they don't have wired infrastructure for that, do they?

Joseph:  They could easily get it. Listen, 5G transmission does not come free. There's an enormous infrastructure, hardware investment that they have to put in to put these transmitters up. So, they could easily replace that investment with an investment in fiber optic cable.

Ben:  Hey, I want to interrupt today's show to tell you about this incredibly versatile piece of exercise equipment that I can take anywhere in the world. It will simulate hundreds of pounds of pressure. You can combine it with things like blood flow restriction band training, you can combine it with any stripped-down hotel gym, or you can use it all on its own. It is a massive time saver. It is developed by a guy who developed osteogenic loading medical devices for bone density. Then he branched out. He figured out how to do the same thing with muscle. It's these variable resistance bands that come with a very slick bar, all travel-friendly. I go all over the world with this thing. It's called the X3 Bar. It's way more than just resistance bands. Ten minutes on this thing will make you feel like you've pumped iron for about an hour and those saved hours add up fast. So, very small footprint, so it's perfect for a garage, basement, bedroom, hotel room, you name it, and it's called the X3 Bar. So, you can get one with a $50 discount if you go to x3bar.com and use code BEN. So, it's x3bar.com, use code BEN. That will get you 50 bucks off of an X3.

Now, while you're biohacking your exercise routine, you might also want to try this as well. It's an all-in-one muscle stimulator. I've been throwing this thing on when I'm on a plane to keep blood flow going, but it can also be used to relieve pain, it can be used for recovery, it can be used for building muscle. It's called a PowerDot. There's athletes now in the NFL, the NBA, the MLB, the NHL, the MLS, Tour de France cyclists, CrossFit athletes, they're all using PowerDot now for pain management, for training, for recovery, for injury rehab. So, it's a smart muscle stimulator, ties to your phone, and you simply set it up and it will do an electrical muscle stimulation on any area of your body that you want to stim. Super slick, super easy to use. They're offering a 30-day at-home trial and giving an additional 20% off for a limited time. To get advantage of that offer, to take advantage of that offer, go to powerdot.com. That sounds funny, powerdot.com and use code BEN at checkout to get 20% off at powerdot.com/ben.

[00:45:25] Cabled and Wi-Fi

I won't lie that the convenience factor is incredibly attractive. Like for me, it is a little bit of a pain in the ass. And I didn't say it on this podcast, but I've said on many other podcasts. My entire home is Cat7 shielded Ethernet cable. So, anytime you want to connect to the internet in any room of the house, you need to make sure you have some kind of an Ethernet adapter for whatever laptop you happen to have, and then you plug that into any of the 12 different cables. I have sticking out of different outlets around the house if you want to plugin. And yeah, it's slightly inconvenient until you get used to it. But at the same time, I mean, my home is not getting bombarded with all these signals that I don't know the health effects of for my kids. Well, with Wi-Fi, we do know. With Wi-Fi, we do know. I think that there's a multitude of studies showing the effects of Wi-Fi on fertility, on the brains of children, et cetera. And I've talked about that many times in other podcasts. But with 5G, you just don't know. So, why not play it safe?

Joseph:  Right.

Ben:  Yeah. I've realized we could probably spend this entire show just scaremongering because–and I think that a lot of other shows have done that, but one part of your book that I had not yet seen before was the pretty interesting biochemical strategies that you can use, beyond just like some of the stuff I talked with Brian Hoyer about, like painting your house with some shielded painting on the walls, or installing dirty electricity filters, or even using Faraday implements in some areas of the house. There's a lot that you can do if you have a building biologist walk through your home to protect everything.

But as far as your own body goes, you're really keen on the biochemistry, and I know you've really been getting into some of the ways that we can not only enhance longevity with certain pathways such as the NAD pathway or the Nrf2 pathway, but also the link between these pathways and exposure to non-native EMF. So, let's get into that. I would like to start with NAD. We've talked about that a lot before. People are doing NAD IVs or subcutaneous injections. Many people are supplementing with oral NMN or NR or even NAD in some cases, and even using intranasal sprays, like it's kind of a darling of the supplement industry right now. And I'm curious why you addressed NAD pathways in a book on EMF.

Joseph:  Well, it's a great question, but it's very similar to the reason you should address them if you had exposure to ionizing radiation, and the EMFs that we're talking about, of course, non-ionizing radiation. We don't have time to go into the details, but essentially, the mechanism faction in x-rays and exposure from your phone or your Wi-Fi router is almost identical, essentially results in excess oxidative stress, which catalyzes damage and breakage of DNA bonds. And when you have a DNA break, thank God our biology has developed a system to repair that. And part of that repair process involves an enzyme that previously was called PARP, and in most publications is still referred to as that. PARP is short for poly-ADP ribose polymerase. But now, they've renamed it to ART, ADP-ribose transferase, I think.

So, if there's a newer literature, we'll use that term. But anyway, this PARP enzyme uses about 150 NAD molecules every time you have a break, just decimates it. And most researchers believe and suspect that that is the primary user in your body of NAD. It has other purposes of course, but that's one of the biggest ones. And the more exposure to have, the more breaks you get, the more you use an NAD. And we know, especially from my previous podcast with David Sinclair, who is really one of the primary innovators in this area to help us understand how NAD is an intracellular signal from the mitochondria to the nucleus, and really essential for improving longevity. When you start depleting that, you have got major problems.

And I've got to tell you that I've got a good friend I'm talking about later. Actually, James Clement, he's out of Gainesville. He's probably one of the top NAD researchers in the U.S. and he and I are actually collaborating doing some studies, but he's got his own mass spec and he actually measures these, and he's published on this before. And he's done a study, I think it was at the beginning of this year or early last year, that showed how rapid the NAD levels decline independent of EMF. I mean, if you take someone healthy, but their NAD level is going to go down literally A to a hundredfold. It just doesn't decrease slowly over time and it falls off a cliff. The drop is very dramatic. So, the last thing you want to do is deplete your NAD levels, especially if you're elderly. If you're younger, you can get away with this. It's still going to hurt you, but it's not going to hurt you as much.

Ben:  Okay. So, basically, what you're saying is that non-ionizing radiation can produce DNA damage that results in increased need for activity of these PARP enzymes, which are big consumers of NAD. And so essentially, the more you're exposed to something like 5G, your argument is that the higher your needs for NAD would be?

Joseph:  Mm-hmm.

Ben:  Okay. So, in terms of actually–and this is obviously something that's kind of I guess confusing to people these days and often controversial because I know there's a lot of supplement industry, there's a lot of I guess bias by different manufacturers of NMN from NAD to NR, but what is your preferred method to keep NAD levels elevated?

Joseph:  Well, how about the free ones first?

Ben:  Okay.

Joseph:  So, limit your exposure to EMFs. I go in great details on that. In fact, we'll talk about it later, but I have a resource. It's Chapter 7 in the book as you know. It's the largest chapter in the book and it goes into how you can limit your exposure and remediate your household. So, the first thing is shield and limit your exposure, that's number one, because if you're not damaging your DNA, you're not going to use it up. So, that's the first one —

Ben:  Alright. Do you still like a guy like Brian Hoyer to come out to the house?

Joseph:  Brian Hoyer is my favorite. I just love that man. We talked about the shielding paint. He just emailed me yesterday. I think he's gotten me to try it seeking to develop a paint for like $200 a gallon because right now, they're about $2,000 a gallon of paints.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, Brian Hoyer did an analysis of my home two years ago. I didn't tell you this yet, but after reading your book, I talked to Brian because I've since built a guest house and I've also got a bunch of different new biohacking tools, like a float tank and a hyperbaric chamber and a Vasper and all these different things that use electricity around the house, and I'm going to have him come back out actually in a few months to do a reanalysis. That's just basically after reading your book. I also want to know about any potential for new cell phone towers that have been installed near my home, et cetera. And for those of you listening in, again if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/emfd, I'll link to my previous podcast with Brian where we delved into building biology.

Joseph:  He's the best. He actually has a company. In my mind, he's the best in the U.S.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  I couldn't recommend anyone more. He's got a company called shieldedhealing.com where actually others can hire him or his team as a consultant.

Ben:  I'm glad I talked to him before I released this podcast because now after I release the podcast, he's going to be booked up for the year.

Joseph:  Yeah.

Ben:  For sure. I got a hold of him in time. Okay. So, you've got reducing your EMF exposure of course, but what else would you do in terms of non-supplementation?

Joseph:  The things that you and I have been teaching people for years–and by the way, Ben, I forgot to congratulate you. You have reached the top 10 most visited natural health sites in the world, and you deserve it, man. You're just incredible content you're producing.

Ben:  I'll have to produce some more stuff about vaccinations and cancer, so I get taken off that list.

Joseph:  You don't want to do that. You do not want to do that. But anyway, what we've both been teaching people is–obviously you did a good diet because the–I don't have time to go deep in the weeds on that, but oxidative stress can happen when you're eating a lot of carbs and processed foods. That's key, but the exercise–and not so much what you're eating, but when you're eating, time restricted eating. You and I are both big fans of–sometimes some people call it intermittent fasting, but both of these strategies activate the rate-limiting enzyme for the recycling of the salvage pathway of NAD, which is NAMPT. Essentially, they increased that by 30%. So, you have got to be out of your mind to be taking a supplement of NAD when you're not addressing these basic variables. You need to be exercising, doing time restricted eating, and eating healthy. So, that's the first three things and those are free. There is no charge for it.

Ben:  Okay, okay. Now, of course one could even say that when you're traveling and when you're out of your element and exposed to even more Wi-Fi signals, then using a ketotic approach or high-fat approach might even be more beneficial in those situations because when you're combining sugar with the exposure to 5G, you're just increasing oxidative potential.

Joseph:  Mm-hmm.

Ben:  Okay.

Joseph:  Especially when you're traveling, when you're traveling faster or even taking exogenous ketones, Richard Veech, I think you've interviewed before has–he's really one of the godfathers in ketone research and his team has written some–I think Bill Kurtis is one of his other writers who's published some stuff that shows how ketones are really effective HDAC inhibitors and they radically read–and I think they increase NADPH or NAD–yeah, NADP–wait, NAD–oh, NADPH, I'm sorry.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  So, the NADPH is increased, so that radically decreases the damage from ionizing radiation and it should increase the damage from the [00:55:23] ______. So, that's a good strategy is increasing —

Ben:  Yeah. And that is why, by the way–and since learning this I believe from you and then discussing hydrogen with Tyler LeBaron, your scientific editor, two things that I always have with me on long-haul flights is a shot of ketone esters both before and then after.

Joseph:  Yeah. That's solid.

Ben:  I've got the–what's in my fridge right now? The KetoneAid and the HVMN are the two brands that I have right now. And then the other thing that I do is I have these hydrogen tablets in my bag. When I get on the plane, I put two of those for every bottle of water that I consume. And from what I understand, this actually can affect NAD as well in kind of a roundabout way. Is that true?

Joseph:  I don't know if the–what's going to work really well is it's going to activate the Nrf2 pathway, which is in my mind the best antioxidant system in the world because it's selected —

Ben:  Well, yeah, but what I'm saying is that hydrogen would inhibit NADPH oxidase, right, which would consider NADPH. So, technically, it's a roundabout way of increasing your NAD levels, not taking NAD.

Joseph:  I forgot that Tyler pointed out to me a while ago that it is a pretty good inhibitor, Ben, of NOX, NADPH oxidase. So, it will increase NADPH, which is going to actually help. And those are the two most powerful strategies I know of that you're doing. So, congratulations on the ketone esters and the molecular hydrogen.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  You just don't want to overdo it on the hydrogen. Do it like every hour or so because it works best when it's cycled or pulsed. I would probably do it twice a day. I wouldn't really do it much more than twice a day.

Ben:  Well, when I'm at home, that's what I do. When I'm at home, it's morning and evening. When I'm on the airplane, I actually probably have five doses on the airplane.

Joseph:  That might be a little bit too much.

Ben:  Is that so?

Joseph:  Yeah, because you were taking it continuously like you can inhale much higher volumes and concentrations with respect to milligrams of it by just taking it. It's pure hydrogen gas and it won't work as well. I mean, the studies are really clear. You can discuss with Tyler. It's just not as effective when it gets —

Ben:  Yeah. I guess my logic was that if you're under constant EMF stress and damaging your DNA such as on an airplane, you deplete your NAD extremely rapidly, which would mean that figuring out ways to replace it would be pretty crucial, and maybe what I should be doing. And this is not something I've really done a ton of yet would be to–well, I take that back. I do wear a transdermal NAD patch on long-haul flights for transdermal delivery of NAD. So, maybe I could back off on the hydrogen and still be getting a decent amount of NAD into my system.

Joseph:  Yeah. I would still do the hydrogen. I just want to do this frequently.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  Yeah. And those patches are nice. I think they cost like $17. I think you're getting like about 250 milligrams. But they're pretty elegant. They work.

Ben:  The one I have is 800 milligrams delivered over 12 hours.

Joseph:  Okay. That's a little higher dose. It depends on how much you put in the patch, I guess.

Ben:  Yeah, it does. Yeah. They come with a little liquid you put on the patch, then you put the patch in your skin. They operate on the principle of electrophoresis.

Joseph:  I used to use those, but I just found them inconvenient, so I just with another strategy.

Ben:  Yeah. They are inconvenient, but for a flight, I'll put them on.

Joseph:  That's a good one. That is solid, absolutely solid. And it's not terribly expensive. It's $17 I think is the total cost for a patch.

Ben:  Now, what about supplementation, what would be the best form of supplementation to get NAD levels up in your opinion?

Joseph:  It's controversial for sure. They probably all work, but the question is what happens to them when you swallow them orally. So, it's pretty clear though it's not really disclosed too well for most of these companies that when you swallow them, your liver is going to methylate them. And once it's methylated, it doesn't work very well. It kind of stays in the liver and it's not going to be active. And then it becomes a problem detoxifying it. So, I'm a little bit adverse to doing that and you really have to bypass the oral route. So, you can do that, like the patch, which does it, it's not an issue. You're getting the real molecule with NAD. And actually, James Clement I mentioned earlier, he just interestingly, by the way, publishes his new book, December 31st, which is called “The Switch.” Unbelievable. It's about activating the mTOR on and off. You'd love it. I'll get to send you a copy.

Ben:  I would love to read it.

Joseph:  Yeah. George Church wrote the foreword of the book, his good buddy. And George is probably the leading–he's the Professor of Genetics at Harvard and a really good guy. James is the one who told me about that patch initially, but the other ways to increase the NAD, the one that I like is I found a source of NAD, the powder, about like three ounces of it or so, and I measure it out and I actually put it in suppositories. It has to be kept cold because NAD is a really unstable molecule. We had looked into making liposomal preparations with it, but it's so perishable unstable. It just wouldn't work. That's why the precursors are more useful like NR and NMN.

But the one strategy I think we're going to be really looking forward to–unfortunately, James' mass spec took three months longer to get up and running than it was supposed to. So, we should have had the studies done by now, but Chris Shade, who you also know, is making a liposomal NMN. It exists. Maybe by the time this podcast is out, it will be for sale. It's not for sale now, but we're going to be testing that to see how much it increases NAD levels, and I possibly could have the results back before this podcast gets launched.

Ben:  Yeah. That would be cool. I do like most of Quicksilver Scientific's liposomal formulations. I travel with their melatonin, for example, and I've found that to be the most efficacious way to use melatonin. It's the only way I actually feel when I use it when I travel. And all their stuff is liposomal, so it bypasses digestion. Thus, as you alluded to, negating a lot of the issues with poor bioavailability of orally administrated NAD. And so yeah, NMN that you dissolve under your tongue or take liposomally, or even NAD for that matter, whether via patch or IV or sublingual is going to be better I think than like an oral NR, for example. So, yeah, I do agree with you in terms of NAD delivery.

Joseph:  Yeah. Well, let me just add a little point to that. Not all liposomes are created equal. Chris's are especially effective because they're so small. They're not really liposomes. He calls them nanoliposomes. They're like 30, 40 nanometers, which is the same size of exosome. So, we know from the research that exosomes get transferred in intracellular lickety-split. So, the transport system is this cell is just magnificent because they're the right size.

Ben:  Yeah. And one other thing we didn't discuss was the enzyme that actually converts NADH back to NAD+, the NADPH dehydrogenase. And that one I know can actually be affected I believe in terms of increasing its activity with sauna and with light therapy.

Joseph:  I'm not sure. I know apigenin can do that too, or maybe apigenin CD38. I thought —

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  Yeah. So, those are magnificent therapies. I am just passionate about sauna therapy, near, far, mid-infrared. They're all great therapies. And you and I both do it pretty much every day when we're home.

Ben:  That or light panels, absolutely.

Joseph:  Yeah. Both of them. Then the heat shock proteins you get from those, which–people hear about them, but they're so crucial for–they refold your protein. And I didn't know until already this year that 30% of the proteins that your body makes right off the bat, they're misfolded. So, you need heat shock proteins to put them back together the right way. And if the damage is too bad, then they actually accelerate the degradation process through the UPS system and they essentially lickety-split get them out of your cells before they cause any more damage.

Ben:  Yeah. And another pathway I wanted to jump into, because there's kind of three different pathways you talked about in the book, the NAD pathway, the Nrf2 pathway, and then also minerals such as magnesium. But when it comes to the Nrf2 pathway, I mean, we know that activates a bunch of genes that have very powerful antioxidant effects that could protect against EMF damage. And when it comes to this pathway, most often recommended to increase Nrf2 pathways, perhaps made most popular by Dr. Rhonda Patrick, would be the use of things like sulforaphane and sulfur-rich compounds like garlic, and onion, and chives, and leeks. It's also something that's often recommended, broccoli, cauliflower, cruciferous vegetable. There's a whole bunch of different Nrf2 boosting chemicals in different foods. But now that we've got folks like–I know you've interviewed him recently, Paul Saladino and people saying that these plant hormetic compounds are going to be damaging to our guts. Are you a fan of using those to activate the Nrf2 pathways or do you have other recommendations for activating Nrf2?

Joseph:  Well, the best one is the one we already discussed is molecular hydrogen. I don't think there's any [01:04:31] ______ Nrf2 activator. But you're right, the concept you referred to is you hormesis and I'm a bit skeptical. Paul is a really–he sent a magnificent researcher and he really put some doubts in my mind about the long-term strategy of using that. And actually, I interviewed Jed Fahey, who was Rhonda's primary consultant for her passion of sulforaphane. He's been doing glucoraphanin research for a long time. He's out of Johns Hopkins. And he told me about this plant called moringa, which is like a superfood, which actually the glucosinolates in moringan. It's called moringan and it's actually maybe even more potent than sulforaphane.

So, I live in South Florida, so I can grow it here and I eat–but I don't take a lot of it. I just take a little bit. It's certainly easier to grow than broccoli.

Ben:  Yeah. It's like a weed. And actually, I looked into moringa a while back. So, I was thinking I know you have some on your property and it grows like a weed in the Philippines. One of my assistants who works in the Philippines, the hurricane, she got back to me with the damage from the hurricane and one of things it did was it blew over their moringa tree, so they no longer have moringa on their property. But I found out that nettle, steamed nettle has many, many of the same biochemical properties as moringa, and that grows like weeds around my home. So, I kind of have my own natural in the northwest version of moringa as far as a Nrf2 activator that I can use just right outside my own house. I can make pesto out of it and tea out of it. And so nettle is another fantastic alternative for people who don't have access to moringa or live in colder climates.

Joseph:  Now, that's assuming there's no downstream side effects that are adverse long-term.

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  And we don't know. I mean, it really is unknown. So, I'm a little skeptical.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, for now, I still do include plants in my diet although it's limited and I'm largely eating kind of a nose-to-tail carnivore with some little plants and berries, and bone broths and things like that worked in. Now, you mentioned magnesium as one other way to address biochemical pathways that might be damaged by EMF. Why magnesium?

Joseph:  Well, magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker and that's one of the speculative mechanisms is to how EMFs cause their damage. It may not be through this mechanism, but there's some pretty strong compelling evidence that suggests that that's at least one of the ways. And besides, 85% of the population is deficient in magnesium. So, the downside is like almost non-existent. So, I like magnesium. I think the best way to get it, especially if you're taking a bunch–every molecular hydrogen tablet that you're taking has 80 milligrams of ionized magnesium. So, that's essentially elemental, which is a lot because the RDA is like 400 milligrams. So, if you took like three a day, you're more than halfway there. And I take typically three at once in a half-liter of water.

Ben:  And essentially, that's to control basically the influx of calcium that occurs in response to an EMF signal, whether it's 5G or any other form of non-native EMF. That calcium influx and the damage that it causes particularly via the formation of these peroxynitrate free radicals can in some ways be alleviated via the use of magnesium supplementation.

Joseph:  Yeah. So, peroxynitrate really isn't a free radical, but it causes free radicals. And in fact, the hydroxyl free radicals would cause most of the damage from ionizing radiation to DNA, but what causes it from EMF we believe is carbonate free radical, which is caused by peroxynitrate. So, interestingly, peroxynitrate is a free reactive nitrogen species or an RNS. It's not an ROS, it's an RNS. And one of the other things that you can use for RNS is a new passion of mine, is a dipeptide to simple amino acid that's present pretty much in meat, and it's called carnosine, which is unbelievable.

Carnosine increases telomere length and it scavenges free reactive nitrogen species. So, it should mitigate against some of the harm from EMFs, but it also does something that is particularly intriguing is that it serves as a sacrificial sink for carbonyl species. And this is the intermediate that–it's sort of the precursor to advanced glycation end products and ALEs or advanced lipoxidation end-products, which decimate cellular health. So, carnosine is a big player and that's actually the topic of my new paper that I'm writing and it's going to be probably 500 references in 30 to 50 pages.

Ben:  Oh, wow. Okay.

Joseph:  Yeah. I'll send you a copy when I'm done with that. Probably it's going to take me another three or four months though. But finishing up the calcium, other calciums you can use aside from molecular hydrogen would be threonate, malate and citrate and you may —

Ben:  You may have to say magnesium, not calcium, right, forms of magnesium?

Joseph:  I'm sorry, yes. I'm sorry about that, but yeah.

Ben:  Okay.

Joseph:  Thanks for the correction. Yeah, magnesium, because calcium is available and we don't want to take a lot of extra calcium, although calcium citrate is not unreasonable to chelate out some oxalates. But you heard of the magnesium supplement Calm, C-A-L-M?

Ben:  Yeah.

Joseph:  Yeah. Many people have it. It's part of the most popular ones. And basically, that's magnesium citrate. Well, we're making a calm knock-off. It's called Canna-Calm that has magnesium citrate, threonate, malate, and CBD.

Ben:  Oh, wow. That sounds like a good blend. Yeah. The one I use right now is a MagSRT, which is basically dimagnesium malate in the form of malic acid. I believe it also includes a little bit of the 5-methyltetrahydrofolate acid and vitamin B12, and that one as well. But you've got three different forms that you present in your book, the threonate, the malate and the citrate as options. So, as long as one of those three, people are going to be good.

Joseph:  Yeah. You reminded me–Thank you, first of all, for connecting me to Matt Cook. And when we were dialoguing over the summer, we've kind of both figured out–I mean, he did the figuring out, but I catalyzed the thought process as to using methyl donors when you're taking NAD, especially large doses because it seems to be contributing some of the side effects of that. So, he discussed it on his last podcast with you, but that's an important kind of issue.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. If you can buy S-adenosyl-L-methionine, SAMe, and trimethylglycine, TMG, and–

Joseph:  Yeah. TMG or Betaine.

Ben:  Yeah. Just dose those orally prior to an NAD IV and that feeling of nausea or burning sensation or tingling seems to dramatically decrease with that strategy because essentially, all you're doing with the NAD is you're really increasing your methylation need, and that seems to knock a little bit of the discomfort off. So, yeah, it is a cool strategy.

What about other technologies? We talked about NAD and the Nrf2 pathway, and hydrogen-rich water, and magnesium, but what about technologies? People say, “We'll use pulsed electromagnetic field frequencies or go outside barefoot or use earthing or grounding technologies.” All these different things that supposedly will battle some of the effects of EMF. Are there any that you like when it comes to those type of approaches?

Joseph:  Yeah. There's a few. First of all, let me tell you a few comments is that PEMF, you would think, “Well, got EMF in it so it shouldn't be good.” Well, that's not true. It can be very beneficial and helpful. It's a different frequency. Typically, most biological PEMF units are–the frequencies are below a few hundred hertz. So, they're more closely related to what your body is used to being exposed to. So, that's an important component. And then the other one is that people–there's a lot of harmonizers out there, these little pendants and stickers that you can attach to your phone, and they're purported to provide safety and security. So, what they do is they get people a false sense of security because there's no way, shape or form these devices or [01:12:53] ______.

Ben:  Yeah, minerals.

Joseph:  Yeah. I mean, they may impact in biologically some way, but they're not shielding you from the energy and those frequencies. So, you're most likely causing biological damage. Now, they may mitigate some of the autonomic nervous system responses, but that's not where they cause the damage. So, I would not rely on those. You really have to first measure your exposures and then mitigate.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. The only thing that I can comment on when it comes to some of these frequency generators like the BluShield or the Somavedic. I know that you know my father, Gary Greenfield, Joe, and he has a harmonizer that he sells on his site. I agree that there's not a lot of data when you look at the effects of those on EMF mitigation. But anecdotally, I personally, and have several clients who have reported this as well, sleep much better when those devices are in the bedroom.

And I also had one client who did pre and post-inflammatory marker testing and with no changes in workout diet supplementation, anything like that. All he did was have these harmonizers running in a moderate EMF environment in his house for a couple of weeks. CRP dropped, homocysteine drops, and his LPPLA dropped. And so something seems to be going out with these harmonizers although I agree there's not any good studies that show them to be effective at this point.

Joseph:  Yeah. And the danger this had is that they'll give people a false sense of assurance or reassurance and they'll continue to use your cell phone like they're protected. So, I have no problems using it as long as you're addressing it like you don't have it. It's just a backup, it's not your primary.

Ben:  Okay. Now–go ahead.

Joseph:  And the reason we're doing this, Ben, because I don't want to be chicken little in saying the world is falling down, but listen, we all know and we talked about the 5G and SpaceX implantation of Starlink. I mean, you cannot escape these exposures. It's pervasive. So, the reason we're doing these and recommending these is primarily the shielding and curating a safe environment in your home so it's essentially a sanctuary is that I believe these strategies will essentially produce hormetic benefits because you are going to be exposed no way around it. You cannot escape exposure.

So, that if you can get yourself healthy, limit your exposure, repair and regenerate and then go out into the environment. I believe it's possible. No one has done a study on this, but I theoretically believe that it's possible, that the exposure to these frequents might actually make you healthy, or very similar to exercise and very similar to other EMFs that everyone's familiar with with just sunlight. Sunlight is another EMF. And UVB and UVA when you get exposed to it, they cause a sun tan, but you get too much and it's a sunburn. So, it's a similar process of that, and the frequency–there's not a lot of difference. I mean, especially when you get into 5G. 5G is a lot closer to visible light than 4G. So, it's actually the next spectrum over. It's not that big of a difference in frequency. So, it's not a big jump to believe that there could be a hormetic benefit here.

Ben:  Okay. And a couple other–just kind of like quick lightning round style questions, but as far as measuring devices, I know you use a ton of different measuring devices. Let's say someone can't afford or doesn't want to wait for a building biologist to come to their house. Is there any single meter that you think is best if they just wanted to kind of go around their living environment and assess for EMFs?

Joseph:  Well, there's three different meters. You need one for dirty electricity, and then [01:16:33] ______ filter I like for that, then magnetic fields. Even though the TriField Meter measures three, magnetic, electric and radio frequency signals, it's really only good for magnetic. But then the one for radiofrequency fields that I like a lot, it's the size of a pack of cigarettes and it's audio and gives you audio feedback, too. And then aside from visual is the Acousticom 2. It was recommended to me by Magda Hafez, who actually reviewed this book for scientific accuracy. It's pretty impressive. In fact, I should send you some slide that she showed during her most recent presentation I was at, and it shows the distribution of Wi-Fi centers like in 2002, and then in 2018. Then the whole plant lights up like crazy. It's like a Christmas tree.

Ben:  Okay. Got it. And then what about grounding or earthing?

Joseph:  I think it works. If it's true authentic grounding, Clint Ober is the person who popularized that, and you've had him on your podcast before. I've been in both of Clint's movies and was a firm believer until I started studying this stuff in guys like Sam Milham, who's an MD, MPH, epidemiologist, who wrote the book “Dirty Electricity,” and Dave Stetzer. And then they started to help me understand that the way that electricity is distributed in United States essentially creates dirty electricity or high-voltage transits that get inducted into the ground. This is only in North America. It's not in Asia, Europe, South America, Australia. So, you don't have to worry about it there. So, grounding [01:18:02] ______, but I'm concerned and my concern may be unwarranted, but I'd rather be cautious and conservative. And Brian Hoyer, who you know and respect, shares similar concern. And when he comes to your house, he's going to show you, but you need–it's a little bit challenging to show you, but he can demonstrate it. I think he's created some videos for you, too, to help you understand that. But I do ground every day, where I walk on the ocean. Right before this podcast, I was right in the ocean for an hour walking in the water, which is the ultimate grounding. And Clint would clearly acknowledge that.

Ben:  But even your walks on the beach, not to derail you, you changed those during your writing of this book, did you not?

Joseph:  I did. Oh, you really did read the book, Ben, you did.

Ben:  Of course.

Joseph:  Yeah. I know I took my meter out there because I can–the beautiful thing about the beach in Florida where I live is it's flat, there's no seashells. I could walk for 20 miles in either direction and no problems, no traffic, nothing. So, the one direction I was walking, and I took my meter out there. It was like three times higher than the other direction. So, now, I only walk into the low direction. But it probably doesn't matter because I believe that if you're properly grounded as I am and optimally grounded with my feet, literally six inches to a foot into the water, which makes it a bit more of a challenge. I actually do the beach walking with my Kaatsu cycling, too, so it's really cool.

Ben:  Yeah, which we talked about. Actually, I think when you interviewed me recently in your podcast, that one might have come out by the time this podcast you guys are listening to right now, it gets released, but we talked all about how to use blood flow restriction band training for walks. So, go listen to my podcast on Joe's show. Your show is called “Take Control of Your Health,” right?

Joseph:  No. That's my motto that we trademarked like 20 years ago that actually some insurance company tried to rip us off. No, that's our motto.

Ben:  What's your podcast called?

Joseph:  Oh, yeah, actually the podcast name is “Take Control of Your Health.” I take that pick, I'm sorry. I forgot that we uploaded it to like iTunes and other platforms. But most of it is just on our site. I mean, basically, it's the same thing. It's nothing different, so it's in my website.

Ben:  Okay. Got it. So, I'll link to that.

Joseph:  But you won't find it in YouTube unless you put —

Ben:  I know.

Joseph:  I'm not on YouTube anymore.

Ben:  Well, for me to access any of your articles now, if I just want to search for them, Joe, and I'm like, “I don't remember what did Joe say about, let's say –”

Joseph:  Well, you will not find us on Google. We don't exist.

Ben:  But if I search for like Mercola blood flow constriction training and I use your name, it'll show up?

Joseph:  It should, yes. But if you put in a keyword without my name, it will not show up.

Ben:  Yeah. Then pretty much the only things that show up now were like Healthline and Medscape and just a few of the random, which varies. Anyone who frequently has used Google in the past for searching for health terms —

Joseph:  And WebMD. And do you know what the common denominator with all those companies are? They are owned by ad agencies. Ad agencies owns every one of them and they have Google ads and they sell ads for drugs. So, they have an article about a condition and they sell a drug ad right on the same page, which is 100% illegal.

Ben:  Wow, wow. Well, we have only scratched the surface of what is in this book and we're going to be going up on an hour and a half soon, and I know there's a lot of resources. For example, if people want a free chapter, they can go to emf.mercola.com.

Joseph:  Yes.

Ben:  If you want the whole book, you can actually go to the shownotes for this podcast because I'll put my Amazon link to the book in there, and you can get that at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/emfd. And we also talked a lot, like we talked about Ryan Holiday's books and some other titles. We talked about this meter that you can use to measure. We talked about NAD and hydrogen water and magnesium. I'll just link to everything that I've covered on previous podcasts about any of those for those of you who want to take a deeper dive.

But please understand if you're listening, we didn't in this podcast even get into really scratching the surface of the amount of research and practical recommendations. And also admittedly, I wish we'd have had a full couple of hours just to go into the chapter on how much of this has been hidden in terms of it being a big health experiment, and in terms of how the lobbying and the PR agencies have affected public knowledge of this in what I would consider to be a very unfair manner. And so I would recommend everybody read this book if you want to wrap your head around that. And again, it's “EMF*D.” I guarantee this is one of the ones my kids will be getting paid to write a book report on as well.

Joseph:  That is magnificent parenting example. Thank you for that. That's great.

Ben:  Well, it makes it easy for them. I tell them, “Hey, look. Look for the ones that have all the pages folded over because that means dad's already done the hard work for you and all the most important parts of the book are already circled and underlined.” But one of my sons, I think he's maybe bitten off more than he could chew this week. He grabbed one of Stephan Guyenet's books off of my shelf. He's 11 years old. I see him laying in bed reading about dopamine and food reward responses. I told him he didn't have to read that one, but that's the one he picked. I think it's because it had a picture of some kind of tasty food on the front. Anyways though. Okay. So, BenGreenfield.com/emfd. Joe, thank you so much for writing this book and for coming on my show to share with people about it.

Joseph:  Well, thanks for the opportunity. It's always fun talking with you, Ben. I really appreciate it.

Ben:  Awesome. Alright, folks. Well, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Joseph Mercola signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned, over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So, when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that they generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.



This week, I sat slack-jawed and shocked in my bed as I read my friend Dr. Joseph Mercola's new book about 5g dangers, EMF'D: 5G, Wi-Fi & Cell Phones: Hidden Harms & How To Protect Yourself

The hazards of electronic pollution may once have been the stuff of science fiction, but now we know they're all too real, and with the advent of 5G ultra-wideband technology, the danger is greater than ever.

The dangers of electromagnetic fields are real – and I just had to get Dr. Mercola on this podcast to talk about exactly what they are and how you can protect yourself. He's one of the world's foremost authorities on alternative health, and in this latest title, he has mined the scientific literature to offer a radical new understanding of how electromagnetic fields impact your body and mind.

In this first-of-its-kind guide, he reveals:

  • What EMFs (electromagnetic fields) actually are, where you find them in your daily life, and how they affect you
    • The toll that EMFs have been proven to take in conditions such as cancer, heart disease, and neuropsychiatric illnesses
    • Why you've been largely kept in the dark about this threat to your health
    • How you can actually repair the damage done by EMFs at a cellular level
    • Practical strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones from EMFs at home, at work, and out in the world

The coming 5G technology will be pervasive and powerful. It will also be one of the largest public health experiments in history, with no way of opting out. That's why you need to listen to Dr. Mercola. Now.

During this discussion, you'll discover: 

-Why Dr. Mercola wrote this new book…7:26 

  • Mitochondrial dysfunction is really one of the primary ways we age and develop chronic illness
  • Three years ago realized EMFs were one of the primary ways our mitochondria are damaged and very few people were warning the public about that
  • Written 14 books but this is his last one for 5-10 years as he has a new strategy for creating content

-Dr. Mercola's new strategy for creating content…9:22

  • Ben played a major part. Took three years to write Boundless and it had 3000 references.
  • Another factor was conversation with Dave Asprey in a private party with JJ Virgin at Mindshare. He recommended a book by Ryan Holiday Perennial Seller which helped Dr. Mercola understand how to write a classic book that will be read for decades requires many years to create and many many drafts of the book as the first few drafts are typically terrible.
  • So rather than write more books Dr. Mercola is going to be writing scientific reviews for journals. It has been about twenty years since he published in the science journals and thought it was about time to start up again.

-Oh yeah? What are those resources?…12:30

  • One is Tyler Lebaron, one of the sharpest scientists, humble, brilliant chemist, biochemist and knows molecular biology well.
  • The big one is RSS feeds (really simple syndication), which is essentially an easy way to stay up to date with your favorite websites, such as blogs or online magazines or PubMed which is really important
  • RSS feeds were how Dr. Mercola was able to find and write about so much great content in the early days of his site. In 2005 he used an RSS reader called Google Reader but they shut it down six years ago.
  • Would not use it now though even if it was up because Google is evil on steroids.
  • Alternatives to Google
  • Meta.org RSS Feed search for PubMed lets you follow as many search terms so you don’t have to go to Pub Med every day and do individual searches for them
  • There has been a trend towards open access and now nearly 1/3 articles on PubMed are now free to read
  • If you or someone you know has academic credentials at a university you can typically get free access
  • ResearchGate.com
  • 25-page paper with 200 references on blood flow restriction (BFR).  It isn’t published yet but I can give your listeners a 25-page consumer summary with videos and if they want can send the review paper after it is published in BFR.Mercola.com

-Why the public does not accept that EMF is a serious danger to their health…22:00

  • In 2011, the WHO labels cell phones as a class 2B carcinogen
  • 2018, NTP study shows that cell phones are clearly class I carcinogen
  • Cellphones are the cigarettes of the 21st century
    • Kills you slowly
    • Companies knew it killed customers (as do cell phone companies)
    • Same PR agencies discredit researchers (creating doubt and controversy among the public)
  • Convenient and useful
  • Invisible Captured media
  • Captured federal regulatory agencies
  • FCC started 6 BILLION dollar program to spread 5G to rural areas
  • EMF is unavoidable (unlike cigarette smoke, which you can mitigate somewhat)

-What 5G is exactly, and why would folks want it in the first place…32:15

  • 100X faster than 4G.  Most don’t need it now
  • Possible commercials use that need high bandwidth like self-driving cars
  • SpaceX rollout
  • There have been zero safety studies on the effects of 5G
  • AT&T
  • As we start 2020 implementation is not widespread.  Companies like AT&T lie and say it is 5G and it isn’t
  • Go to browser on phone and go to fast.com and hit enter unless > 500 megs per second it is NOT 5G
  • Fiber optic cable is the best alternative to 5G
  • It's essentially a giant public health experiment

-How to mitigate NAD damage from EMF and how can we increase it in our bodies…47:25

-How to activate the NRF2 pathway…1:03:21

-Why magnesium is a good supplement and the best forms to take…1:06:30

-Technologies that can repair the damage caused by EMF…1:11:36

-How to read a chapter of Dr. Mercola's book for free…1:21:15

Resources from this episode:

Dr. Mercola's website

– Dr. Mercola's new book EMF'D: 5G, Wi-Fi & Cell Phones: Hidden Harms & How To Protect Yourself

– BGF podcasts with Dr. Joseph Mercola

– Books by Dr. Mercola



– Book: Perennial Seller by Ryan Holiday

– Book: The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino

– Book: Dirty Electricity by Sam Milhan

BGF podcast with Tyler LeBaron about molecular hydrogen

Tyler LeBaron doing one-arm pull-ups in a three-piece suit

BGF podcast with JJ Virgin

BGF podcast with building biologist Brian Hoyer

Shielded Healing, Brian Hoyer's company

– BGF podcast with Nick Pineault: The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs

How To Migrate From Chrome To Brave

Meta.org RSS Feed search for PubMed


Qwant search engine

Ketone Aid

Transdermal Magnesium

Water and Wellness hydrogen tablets

The Carnivore Code by Dr. Paul Saladino

BGF podcast w/ Clint Ober

Dr. Mercola's recent podcast w/ Ben Greenfield 

Episode sponsors:

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Ask Ben a Podcast Question

One thought on “[Transcript] – The Shocking Truth About You Getting “EMF’D”: 5G, Wi-Fi & Cell Phones – Hidden Harms & How To Protect Yourself

  1. Dave says:

    Using a Bluetooth headset or headsets can be very convenient in many situations. This connection generates electromagnetic waves, like any other connected device. To avoid harm, you can use your phone’s speakerphone. This will keep the phone away from you. The farther away your phone is from you, the better, as the effect of radiation reduces with distance. http://emfprotectionusa.com/

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