January 29, 2022
[00:01:38] Podcast Sponsors
[00:03:54] Topic and Guest Introduction
[00:06:58] Dr. Loud's background and history with holistic dentistry
[00:13:12] A review of Ben's scans from his previous visit
[00:28:50] The Intraoral Scanner
[00:32:20] Podcast Sponsors
[00:35:40] cont. The Intraoral Scanner
[00:39:13] A Bacterial Test And Undergoing A Scan Of Ben's Mouth In Real-Time
[00:48:24] Why “Optimal Dental Health” Is A Misnomer
[00:56:19] The Result Of Ben's Oral DNA Test
[00:59:05] An Ideal Tooth Care Protocol
[01:05:56] What Occurs After The Treatment
[01:10:50] Closing the Podcast
[01:11:52] Legal Disclaimer
Ben: On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.
Eniko: And, they always end up having them out completely redone all over again. It's not an efficient way. And, you haven't really addressed the root causes of any of the diseases. What do we need to do to prevent this from happening in the future for you? But, we have to have in our mind what help is. We have to understand what healthy teeth are.
What we notice in patients that go through this treatment is their face changes, their eyes open up wider, the wrinkles lessen, there's less strain on the face.
Ben: Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.
Hey, I spent some time in Phoenix. I did some cool podcasts in Phoenix. I went to this place called Detox for Life and did a bunch of Instagram videos while I got extracorporeal blood oxygenation ozonation. I went to this fantastic holistic nutrition practitioner named Monica Hershaft. Did an interview with her, video and audio. And then, I did a video and audio interview for you today on pretty much the most advanced holistic functional medical form of dentistry I've ever experienced. This gal down in phoenix, her name is Dr. Eniko Loud. She's literally reinventing my whole mouth and it's amazing. She's a genius. She's worth flying to Phoenix to go get your dental work done. I'm telling you. So anyways, if you live in Phoenix, you'd be a dummy not to have her as your dentist.
So, I'll just shut up there and you're going to learn more about her as we delve into today's show, which is I guess appropriately enough brought to you by nicotine because we all know smoking cigarettes can turn your teeth brown. But, if you like nicotine and you like the pick-me-up that nicotine can give you, this company, Lucy, they're an oral nicotine company but they make nicotine gum and lozenges in these pouches. And, by the way, their espresso-flavored pouch is amazing. I love it. This little 4-milligram espresso-flavored pouch, almost as good as a cup of coffee, even better with a cup of coffee. And anyways, I have to tell you a disclaimer, this product does contain nicotine and nicotine is an addictive chemical. I have to tell you that. Okay.
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Eniko: Hello, welcome. Welcome. So good to see you.
Ben: How are you doing?
Eniko: Very good.
Ben: This is where I get to find out if drinking stevia-flavored soda is going to rot away my teeth.
Eniko: Well, it shouldn't, just the carbonation we have to watch out for–
Ben: We'll find out. You're the expert.
Eniko: Welcome. We're excited to see you today.
Ben: I'm excited to find out if I'm going to lose all my teeth or not.
Eniko: No, you're not going to lose all your teeth.
Ben: Okay, good.
Eniko: You're in a good place now to get things back to rejuvenation.
Ben: Awesome. Well, I'm stoked and I know we're going to be recording my whole session here. But, I should let the audience know this is my second time here.
Ben: Because, well, to just give you all the brief intro, Dr. Loud and I were at a health summit a few months ago and she walked up to me at the actual party, the cocktail party there at the summit and she starts telling me about my mouth, and my teeth, and things she was seeing and stuff I'd never heard before about; jaw alignment and apnea. And, I was pretty intrigued because it's not often that someone just walks up to you at a party and starts telling you more things about your mouth than yourself. So, I went in to see Dr. Loud when I was in Phoenix and she did all these crazy scans which we'll talk about because I want to ask you about the more details because I wanted people to find out about these scans you do. And then, she sent me home, she went through all the data, she has these 3D images of my mouth. And, you guys will see it all, but yeah.
And so, here I am back at Dr. Loud's office. A month and a half or two later, I have no clue what I'm doing, I have no clue what to expect. She just told me come back in a couple months, so here I am.
Eniko: And, you're wearing a little device.
Ben: Oh, she custom-made a special device for me that I lost yesterday before I came down. I've been wearing it religiously all through the night. The problem is, you wear it at night, you put on your bedside right where it is and then on my last two days when you told me to start wearing it during the day, of course no longer was it by my bedside and I'd take it out every time I had breakfast, every time with lunch, every time at dinner. So, maybe my dog ate it, maybe it's on the table somewhere. Who knows, but it's disappeared. So, hopefully, that doesn't super mess up our procedure.
Eniko: I made a new one.
Ben: Oh, you're amazing.
Eniko: We have a new one because we're going to need it for some of these steps we're going to do today.
Ben: Okay, cool. And, a quick funny story for those of you watching the podcast or listening, it's not Invisalign, is it?
Eniko: No, it's not.
Ben: Okay, okay. You can explain later on exactly, but it comes with this whole cast of my mouth with instructions to place this thing in my mouth, so I've got this giant mouth-sized cast and I'm trying to put it on. And finally, I text Eniko and I'm like, “How am I going to fit this in my mouth?” And, she said, “It's just a little tiny plastic piece that's in there. The other thing is just a cast of your mouth.” And, I'm like, I was considering losing a lot of sleep for the next 30 days trying to fit that in my mouth every night. So–
Eniko: Normally, we have you here for that process, but we kind of had to shift this all next to you so we can make it work.
Ben: Okay, cool. Well, where do we start?
Eniko: Do you want to start with the next steps in your process or would you to review the whole slide that I did for you?
Ben: Well, I think where my mind goes is that I know that we did some scans when I was here and you got some results from those scans, so maybe we could show and/or explain what those scans were, and then you could explain what you found.
Ben: Would that work?
Ben: Is there [00:07:25] _____ for the camera to show us the equipment that you use?
Eniko: Yeah, no, we are set up for that.
Ben: Okay. I just want to make sure there weren't any patients currently using them.
Eniko: Yeah. And, I thought it would be a good idea to kind of explain a bit on the background of why I approached you like that.
Ben: Yeah, we probably should talk about that.
Eniko: What makes this practice a bit different or the approaches that we have.
Ben: Do you want to sit down and talk about that over there?
Eniko: Yeah, sure.
Ben: Maybe real quick before we before we go and show all the sexy equipment.
Ben: Alright, so I have a holistic dentist back home.
Ben: And, I've done some podcasts that many of the people listening in or watching may have heard before about holistic dentistry, but it's my understanding especially after speaking with you that what you do despite implementing a lot of these natural concepts such as avoiding metals and good filtration and all of these things that are a little bit more holistic approach.
Ben: As the name implies with holistic dentistry, you kind of do some other things too. So, tell me about your background and what this unique flavor of dentistry is that you practice.
Eniko: So, to kind of make a long story short, I was actually trained in Europe as a dentist and a physician. So, I have a dual degree there. And, when I came to the United States, I got trained in conventional dentistry and there's lots of gaps in Standard American Dentistry, or call it SAD dentistry. And, when it comes to finding out the root causes of disease–
Ben: You just called it SAD dentistry.
Eniko: I call it SAD, Standard American Dentistry.
Ben: Standard American Dentistry. By the way–
Eniko: Just like sad–
Ben: Should we turn the TV down a little bit? Okay, we turn the TV down maybe. Oh, perfect. Not that I didn't enjoy the background elevator music. So, standard conventional dentistry is what you're originally training?
Eniko: I was originally trained in that. But, because I was trained in medicine, I always had this fascination with how things are connected in the body and how the body functions as a whole. So, I seeked out more training and I got introduced to holistic and biological dentistry, but I still saw some gaps in how the person is cared for as a whole being. And, at that time a colleague of mine introduced me to functional medicine. And, long story short, I got certified in functional medicine. I'm one of a few a handful that are certified now in the country because functional medicine gap, it creates this whole understanding and a structure, a fundamental structure to how to think and how to connect different parts of the body as a whole.
Ben: Right. And, in the U.S., that's The Institute for Functional Medicine.
Eniko: Institute for Functional Medicine, yeah.
Ben: Did you have to get an MD in addition to your–
Eniko: No, it's just a certification process that took about three years. It's one of the hardest things I've done. But then, I took the concepts of functional medicine; holistic, biologic, and conventional dentistry, and bioesthetic training that focuses on function and structure and root cause. And, I combined them into functional medicine-based dentistry that now bridges the gap between functional medicine and holistic dentistry.
Ben: Right. Because when I go to my dentist in Spokane, his name is Craig Simmons and I've gone up and seen him. And, he's great. He seems to be practicing a lot of the things that, from my understanding, of holistic dentists should be practicing. But, granted despite the fact that I love him, he's never talked to me about things like spinal alignment or diet supplementation. It's all the mouth.
Ben: And then, when I came in and saw you, you were doing scans of my whole body and up and down my spine and giving me this whole dietary protocol. And, it really did feel a little bit more like you were treating my body and not just my teeth.
Eniko: Yeah. And then, ultimately, we just all mind-body medicine too. And, one of the things that I'm also trained in is as biostatic dentistry which looks at the root causes of disease when it comes to how the teeth wear down, how the teeth function, how the jaw joints, and then the spine function together. So, it's a lot of different knowledge bases that I pulled together to help get my patients to optimal health. And, it's constantly evolving.
Ben: How many people do what you do?
Eniko: I don't know anybody that does the combination of things that I do.
Ben: So, you literally had to carve out your own path in terms of saying, okay, well I know functional medicine I know holistic dentistry, I also know conventional dentistry, I know mind-body medicine. So, you essentially created your own technique.
Eniko: I took the best from everybody and all the fundamental practices and combined it into one that really seems to serve our patients. So, I'm not the only one that helps a patient here. We work together with my functional therapist with chiropractors with physical therapists especially when it comes to the spine and jaw and muscle alignment, with functional medicine doctors, nutritionists. So, it's a team approach.
Ben: If a dentist is listening in because I know I have a few that listen to the show or watch the show, do you teach other dentists? Is there a certification program?
Eniko: Not yet.
Ben: I was going to say there's not, there should be.
Eniko: That's in the future. That's in the future.
Ben: Alright, cool.
Eniko: But, I'm looking to hire someone because I've gotten so busy.
Ben: You mean to help you create a course? There are people that do those things. These days they call them masterclasses.
Eniko: Yeah, that's right.
Ben: I think masterclass is the terminology.
Ben: That the cool kids use nowadays. So, basically, I came in, I had no clue what I was going to have done when I came in and saw you, I just knew some lady came up to me at a party and told me my mouth needed work. So, anyways, when I came in, I believe the very first thing I did was this scan that you have in this room back behind us.
Ben: Do you want to show me some of these scans and then we can talk about what you found on them?
Eniko: Yes, definitely.
Ben: Okay, cool.
Eniko: Tamika, can you please pull up his scan?
Tamika: A patient's using it right now. Soon as they're done, I'll flip.
Ben: Maybe, while we're waiting for, you can introduce what it is.
Eniko: Yeah. So, Columbine Scan is a 3D.
Ben: Cone beam?
Ben: Columbine, okay.
Eniko: It's a CT scan sort of. It's a 3D imaging device that helps us see deep through the teeth into the joints. In your case, we can even measure airway in a standing up position and then looking to the sinuses. And, that's critical when it comes to biological and holistic medicine too because we want to see if there's hiding infection somewhere. It's often that people end up with some systemic diseases like heart attacks or strokes that in 80% of the cases patients that have heart attacks and strokes, plaque from the mouth can be found in there.
Ben: Yeah, I've heard that before. I've actually had a couple people mention that on my show before, the link between cardiovascular dysfunction and inflammation of cardiac tissue and poor bacterial balance or an infection in the gums.
Eniko: In them mouth, yeah.
Ben: That then of course travels via the bloodstream to the heart.
Eniko: Yeah. And, the brain and everywhere.
Ben: And, the brain.
Eniko: So, for example, bacteria from the mouth are when you have really harmful bacteria in the amount, you inhale them because we inhale sometimes through our mouth. And, they end up populating the lungs. And, something I learned not long ago is that the lung bacterial population is secondary to the mouth and the nose. So, if somebody has really bad gum disease or harmful bacteria in their mouth, they're much more prone to have upper respiratory infections or more severe COVID cases.
Ben: No kidding, I was going to ask you was there any link between mouth hygiene and COVID?
Eniko: Yeah, definitely.
Eniko: Because you inhale them. And, not just inhale them, then you swallow them. So, somebody's on acid suppressors, then their stomach acid cannot kill off the harmful bacteria and then they swallow it. So, it's been contributing to SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and other dysbiosis.
Eniko: And then, the other way is through the bloodstream. So, if somebody has even the smallest amount of bleeding in their gums, when you brush or floss, that's a pathway for bacteria to enter the bloodstream. And then, there's so many links over the years with pre-term birth, low birth weight in young women that oftentimes women don't go to dentist when they're pregnant. It was a critical time to go. It's been linked now to Alzheimer's. You heard Dr. Bredesen talk about it.
And, one thing that we did for you, too, is the bacterial test, the DNA saliva test to see–
Ben: That's right. You had me swish and spit into it too. Yeah.
Eniko: Yeah. So, we wanted to sequence the bacteria that we know the sequence at this point, see if there's correlation with systemic conditions. And, what I see in patients that come back with Alzheimer's, they consistently have those Alzheimer's bacteria in there.
Ben: Really? Wow.
Eniko: So, once you eliminate that, now, you have a chance to restore people to less risk when it comes to progression of disease.
Ben: So, if the eyes are the window to the soul, the mouth is kind of the window to the body.
Eniko: Yes. But, in traditional Chinese medicine, that's what they use. Show me your tongue, show me your mouth.
Eniko: And, we can tell you everything that's wrong with you.
Ben: Yeah. And, it's interesting because in functional medicine, at least from what I understand, a lot of times the functional medicine practitioner will start with the gut.
Ben: That seems to be the general consensus is just because it's open to the rest of the environment.
Ben: But, if you think about it, the opening to the gut assuming that you're eating your food like a normal person is via the mouth.
Eniko: Yeah, you got it.
Eniko: Well, the mouth is the first part of the digestive tract.
Eniko: First part of the gut.
Eniko: And, is no wonder that our mouth, so our mouth and our gut have really large numbers of the new cells which are lymphatic chains. So, the mouth is a lymphatic chain in the back of your throat, all around our neck. We have lymph nodes. So, our gut has another lymphatic chains because these are barriers. So, the mouth is the first barrier, everything has to pass through the nose. It's a barrier everything has to pass through.
Ben: Yeah. Well, it's probably a better option for a career than focusing on the other end of the tube.
Ben: So, yeah. That's great. You chose the right side, I think, probably more pleasant day at the office.
Ben: You want to go check out the scanner?
Ben: Okay, cool.
Eniko: Let's see. She should have it ready for us. Let's go over there.
Ben: So, this is the Columbine.
Eniko: So, this is an intelligent device. It's actually as it's going around your head, it measures the bone density and it gives you only the radiation that's needed to provide an image. You can do multiple things with it, but the 3D image is watch–
Ben: Can I come get a close-up of this with the camera? So, basically, the way that the scan did was my head kind of went in here and it does a full rotation as you go around and does like a video of–
Ben: Or not a video–
Eniko: So, a lot of images and then it stitches it together.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it's a pretty low level of radiation from this thing.
Ben: Okay. Alright. So, we did the Columbine Scan and that again was for my airway alignment, for the–
Eniko: For the joints.
Ben: General structure of the joints in the jaw.
Eniko: Identifying to make sure there's no infections in your jaw.
Eniko: Looking into the sinuses, nasal cavity, spine.
Ben: And, this is the readout. Now, do you have my results on here on this computer?
Eniko: So, once I complete this, I analyze it, I also send it to radiologists that specializes in jaw joint–
Ben: Oh, these are my results. So, this is my mouth.
Ben: Oh, okay.
Eniko: They also do a radiology report.
Eniko: Yeah. So, I always double-check everything. So, this was–
Ben: So, tell us about what you found on this one?
Eniko: We took two scans. One that showed your joints and the other one was a bit lower. So, you can kind of play–
Ben: The lower one was kind of neck area, like cervical spine.
Eniko: And then, the airway. And, they actually the radiologist stitched the two images together so we got a hole–
Ben: And, for people who are listening and not watching, this is really cool. It's a full 3D image of my entire skull.
Eniko: And, we can move, bend around here–
Ben: It's kind of freaky. Yeah, that's crazy.
Eniko: So, this is where your joints are. These are the vertebrae in the back here. This is the bone view. I like the [00:19:26] _____ because you can kind of see through.
Eniko: That's your nose cavity. This is where your eyes are. And, behind here are your sinuses.
Ben: And, what it looked like if I was a pirate.
Eniko: So, we look at your joints. One of the things I always look at is joints. So, let's locate the bone.
Ben: So, this is the temporal mandibular joint?
Eniko: Yes. So, what we look for is to make sure that there's no degenerative disease which would look like this little white line here is eaten away like breaks in it. We also look to see where the joint is positioned and if there's any remodeling. So, this is flattening here and this joint is more like in a center a little bit. So, that's good, but the flattening is not good. So, that means it's functional remodeling from bite changes or trauma–
Ben: Those are three things that can cause that functional remodeling bite changes or trauma.
Eniko: Yeah, trauma.
Eniko: And then, this one is you can see it's kind of a bit weird and it's down and back. That's your left joint. And, you can even see it here, both of your joints are out to the side a little bit. They're almost dislocated a little bit.
Ben: Is that pretty common to see in people?
Eniko: Pretty common to see in people.
Ben: Okay. And, if people had that because of a trauma or a bite change or some kind of functional pattern, what is it they would notice that might bug them? Would it be like they feel their jaw is more tight than it should be? Would it feel like they're chewing irregularly? What's kind of symptomatically would someone experience?
Eniko: Those are really good questions. Yes, they would experience that tightness of the jaw in the morning, especially in the morning, sometimes clicking, sometimes popping noises, sometimes grading noises. It could be even really a lot of tension or pain. Some people even have migraines or headaches from it or neck pain.
Eniko: Every study is very different.
Eniko: Yeah, it can be very mild from just some clicking and tension in the morning. Or, to the extreme of some of the patients I see they cannot even chew hard foods.
Ben: Yeah. Wow. So, if somebody suffers from migraines, headaches, they feel they're chewing properly, et cetera, one of the things that they could do is actually get some kind of CT scan of the jaw and people like you are able to tell if this TMJ is out of line.
Eniko: Remember, we did some dynamic analysis of how your teeth slide left and right, and forward and back, and kind of correlate all that.
Ben: And, if I recall properly with that analysis, you literally had a mirror over me and in my mouth where you were just looking at the way that my bite moved because it shifted side to side from the back.
Eniko: Yes, definitely.
Ben: Okay, got it.
Eniko: Because the teeth and the joints are very much connected. If you try to slide forward, you'll feel the joint slides forward. If you slide side to side, one or the other joints move differently. So, if the teeth are out of alignment, the joint can suffer over time remodeling. And, the joints are suspended by muscles and when those joints do not function harmoniously or they're out of their place, then there's muscle tension. That's one of the things I kind of noticed.
Ben: Interesting. Now, what else do you see from this scan in terms of what–you mentioned it does airway?
Eniko: Yes. So, let me look at the other one. We can also look to see if there's any obstructions in the nose, we look inside–
Ben: Oh, wow, the nasal cavity.
Eniko: Nasal cavity. It's kind of narrowing a bit here. And, you can see the sinus cavities. These are the sinus cavities.
Ben: Do you usually see dysfunction in those areas in the nasal cavities and the sinus cavities?
Eniko: Often. Yeah, sometimes people don't even know they have cysts or sometimes the sinus is filled with something.
Eniko: And, it could be infections, it could be fungi, it could be all kinds of things.
Ben: Mine seem to look okay.
Eniko: Yeah, yours look okay. Your sinuses look really good.
Ben: Okay, interesting.
Eniko: And then, let's look at the other one. See the joints are not in it, but we see more of the teeth and the airway.
Ben: So, this scan now, this is the one that was lower because I remember the machine kind of worked up on my upper head, and then you said to kind of step away, then I stepped it when you lowered it.
Ben: And so, this is all upper neck airway.
Eniko: So, we look at the curvature, whatever we can see here. We look at the airway and then we can actually measure the airway. And, you could see it here.
Ben: And, what do you typically look for on something like this, or what do you see on mine that's interesting?
Eniko: So, whenever it's black, that's a narrower airway.
Eniko: So, normally imagine drinking through a large tube or air, you're inhaling through a large tube. When it's narrow, it's almost through a small straw.
Ben: Mine looks like it's pretty narrow.
Eniko: Yeah, it is pretty narrow at the middle part of it.
Eniko: This is when you're standing up, so you have to think about it when you're sleeping how much more–
Ben: I was going to say because usually narrow hours are associated with things like sleep apnea, which I think most people watching or listening are probably familiar with. That's that nighttime repeated waking as you kind of drop in your oxygen saturation while you're asleep. Many people snore, but obstructive sleep apnea is something that I never would have thought that I personally have. I guess I haven't really measured my, what do you call the SpO2.
Ben: For a very long time for the entire night while I'm asleep. But, what you're saying is that with that amount of airway narrowing, I could possibly have sleep apnea not even known?
Eniko: Yeah, a mild one and you might not even know it.
Ben: Wow. Now, for sleep apnea, that's something that I know you and I actually talked about this at one point like this Oura Ring that I'm wearing. Apparently very soon, they're going to come out with the ability to measure SpO2.
Ben: I know you can buy on Amazon 24-hour SpO2 fingertip thing you can wear. But gold standard for you, if you saw a test like this like, “I want to find out if you actually have sleep apnea,” what would you tell somebody who'll do it?
Eniko: I would send you a home sleep test, a professional one that measures brain wave and heart rate and oxygen saturations, and then just the stages of sleep also.
Ben: Ballpark, how accurate is it to MacGyver it yourself with something like SpO2 from a wearable or something like that. Do you think?
Eniko: It's not as accurate, probably.
Eniko: Because that pulls together so much data. There's other things that you can get different rings that measure more and sleep stages too, but still the gold standard is an actual sleep test, sleep study in two nights so you can accurate–
Ben: Two nights in a row.
Eniko: —result of what's going on.
Ben: I don't know if you know the answer to this question, but let's say somebody normally when they're walking around during the day, if they have a narrow airway because they're not lying down, let's say their SpO2 is 97, 98, 99, do you know how low it would go during the night in somebody has sleep apnea?
Eniko: It's hard to know for sure. At night, if somebody has sleep apnea, can go in the 80s.
Ben: In the 80s?
Eniko: Yeah, usually.
Ben: So, we're talking like you'd see maybe a 10% dip happening a few times–
Eniko: Yeah, a few times. Even that's enough to cause mitochondrial dysfunction.
Eniko: Mitochondria will start constricting. And, what happens is that over time is the problem cumulative effects of minor hypoxias lead to even more and more damage over time.
Ben: Right. And, because a lot of times when you experience these periods of hypoxia, intermittent hypoxia during the night, you wake.
Ben: I know that any of these wearables like the WHOOP or the Oura, whatever, measure restlessness at night might also be a clue.
Ben: If you see really, really poor restlessness, it might also have a partner with restless leg syndrome or something like that. Or, maybe the dog's barking but it could be another clue if you also have a restricted airway and you're seeing low SpO2. These things might add up.
Ben: Interesting. So, you saw a restricted airway on me here.
Eniko: And then, tooth wear is related to restricted airway too. So, when your teeth wear down, when you lose enamel, you actually lose some height in the airway.
Ben: Oh, it makes sense.
Eniko: Yeah. So then, the more the teeth wear down, the more your airway and your tongue is pushed even more back.
Ben: Does this test show tooth wearing or is it a different test that shows tooth wearing?
Eniko: It's a different one when we did the Intraoral scan.
Ben: Okay. Well, we'll get a chance to show people what that one is too.
Ben: Alright. So, on this one, it looks like the main things are the restricted airway and then–
Eniko: And then, we can look at the spine.
Ben: On the other test a little bit of TMJ dysfunction.
Eniko: Let's see. You can look through the whole skull and look at the back of the spine too.
Eniko: This one shows more. These is the things I look for. See how the vertebrae align?
Eniko: Here. And, compared the midline. And, if you look at it, there is a little bit if I cross the midline of that vertebrae.
Ben: Which vertebra is that that you're drawing the line through?
Eniko: The first and the second ones.
Ben: So, my C1 and C2 are a little bit out of alignment on this scan.
Eniko: A bit off to the right. A little bit.
Ben: Shifted to the right.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. Do you ever work in conjunction with chiropractic physicians to send them results like this?
Eniko: Definitely. Yeah.
Ben: And, okay, this patient needs some cervical alignment work.
Eniko: Yeah, definitely.
Eniko: Yeah, work with a physical therapist also that does craniosacral therapy.
Ben: Okay, got it. Cool. Alright. So, that's scan one, the Colum Scans.
Anything else you want to show people or tell them about this one in particular?
Eniko: We covered a lot. This would show if, for example, there's infections in the teeth, they would show up as holes in the bone. That's about all we look for in these.
Ben: Alright, cool.
Alright, what's the next sexy machine can we get to see?
Eniko: We can go to the Intraoral scanner that we analyzed–
Ben: Did you say interval scanner?
Eniko: Intra, Intraoral scanner.
Ben: Intraoral scanner, okay.
Eniko: So, this is based on the initial one. So, when we did your initial scan, we decided, you and I discussed what the next step and the plan is. What we need to do is to get your joints back into the proper location. We made that mini mago [PH 00:29:16]. The purpose of that little deprogrammer or call it deprogrammer was to start changing brain loops because when our teeth come together, there's muscle memory and brain memory. So, our brain and muscles will put our teeth together the way we habitually gotten used to it. When we put the small device, you kind of had like, “Where do I put my teeth?” You had that moment of confusion.
Ben: Yeah. But, it was based off a custom cast of my mouth.
Eniko: Yes, custom–
Ben: Was that cast created from this machine here?
Eniko: From this machine, yeah.
Eniko: So, this is–
Ben: So then, when I put this in and he had me wearing it every night, it's essentially retraining my mind-muscle connection so that my bite brings that TMJ misalignment that you saw on the other scanner back into alignment.
Eniko: It's not complete alignment. That's where we're moving to the–
Ben: Kind of starts the process.
Eniko: Starts the process. That's where we're moving into the larger appliance. That's going to cover all your teeth.
Eniko: This was just so we could get a better bite.
Ben: The bigger one. Hopefully, I'll use that one.
Eniko: I hope you noticed that.
Ben: You know what someone needs to invent if this doesn't exist yet, because I was talking to someone yesterday where's Invisalign they're like, “Yeah, I lose mine all the time too.” It's only used to make some kind of a necklace, a fashionable necklace that's perfectly sized to your little Invisalign.
Eniko: Yeah. You could just drop it–
Ben: Just drop it in the necklace when you have your meal.
Eniko: That's a good idea.
Ben: Take it back out. Yeah.
Eniko: Yeah, because–
Ben: I might do that with a business idea for somebody.
Eniko: There you go.
Ben: Yeah. [00:30:38] _____ is going to do that.
Eniko: I think they already have it. So, this is where we look at how the teeth come together. And then, that big mold that you try to put in your mouth, that was based on this. So–
Ben: Okay. So, for those of you listening, we're looking at a 3D scan now with my teeth.
Eniko: And then, we 3D print based on this.
Ben: Yeah, yeah.
Eniko: Models of your teeth and then we can actually change it to look prettier too, here.
Eniko: This is the stone model of your teeth. So, this is what was printed.
Eniko: And, that's the relationship of your teeth. So, we even have a weather map where we could see how the teeth come together. So, the goal of a balanced bite is to have teeth that come together evenly. When the bite and the joints are balanced, when you close down, all your teeth meet at the same time.
Eniko: So, what we look for–
Ben: But, if you see these little red spots, does that show that [00:31:29] _____ at the same time?
Eniko: Yeah. So, these red spots should be small, maybe like that big, and even all across your teeth. You can see you have really heavy bite on that side. And then, some going on here. And look, these are the teeth that are actually worn down here and chipping away.
Eniko: So, it's an imbalance in a bite that causes the wear of your teeth.
Ben: So, it's an imbalance in the bite. What if someone had a perfectly balanced mouth that they were a nighttime teeth grinder? Would you see something similar? Would it be more of an even wearing of the teeth?
Eniko: Balance bite doesn't exist–
Ben: I was going to say.
Eniko: So, balance bite and nighttime grinding, they don't go together because–
Ben: Okay. So, a few nighttime grind, you basically have an imbalance bite.
Eniko: Imbalance bite.
Ben: Okay, got it.
Eniko: Or, joints or something else or muscle function. Because when your teeth meet together with small spots like when the teeth meet together, they should be only meeting in small surface areas.
Ben: So, thankfully you don't have to sweat the dreadful winter months if you have access to one of these red light therapy systems. I use this one called the Joovv. They can't replace natural sunlight but it does give you similar wavelengths of light, red and near-infrared to be specific. And, these have been clinically proven to be very beneficial for your health. They're some of the better parts of sunlight. All sunlight is good, but these two parts are really good. Thousands, yeah, thousands of peer-reviewed research articles have demonstrated the benefits of red and near-infrared light for things skin health and reduced pain and inflammation, faster muscle recovery. And, there's a lot of different ways to get red light but I personally use and recommend the Joovv stuff because first of all, they have a huge selection of configurations like tiny little handheld travel devices to huge setups like I have my office that could treat your whole body. They use medical-grade equipment. They've passed rigorous third-party testing to ensure they're safe for at-home use. No other red light therapy products I'm aware of have gone through that level of scrutiny. They also have ambient mode, which uses lower intensity red light for nighttime as a healthy alternative to bright blue light. You could use it to light up a room or my case my office. I just flip it off. I got to do office work. I get red light instead of blue light so I sleep better later on.
Seems to help quite a bit too with the whole seasonal affective disorder thing. I still have one of those blue light boxes for seasonal affective disorder. But, when I go to my office in the morning, I flip that on, then flip the Joovv on to kind of simulate the whole sunrise thing, and just works gangbusters. So, you'll feel much better, I guarantee, if you get a Joovv in your home, especially this winter.
And, Joovv is going to give all my listeners an exclusive discount. Go to Joovv.com/Ben. That's J-O-O-V-V.com/Ben. Some exclusions apply, but you can go there and pick up your own Joovv today.
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Eniko: And, when the teeth are not in the right position, then the brain wants to level everything out. That's why people end up with worn flat teeth because the brain doesn't want to have to deal with avoiding a tube that's out of alignment.
Ben: Aside from the obvious aesthetic consideration of people just not wanting to have worn down crooked teeth, is there any other concerns that someone would have about their teeth wearing down?
Eniko: Many of them. One of the biggest one is tooth loss because when a tooth wears down, it loses its supported enamel and it starts wearing into the inside part of the tooth, which is called the dentin which is softer and it wears six times faster and eventually the teeth crack.
Eniko: And then, when the tooth cracks, you end up taking the tooth out.
Ben: Right. And then, it turns from just being aesthetic issue and I can't chew anything but Gerber, baby food, issue.
Eniko: And, what happens usually people come in and then they go to a dentist and they have a toothache on a back molar. And, it always starts usually with the back molar. So, the very back molar is in the mouth because as you close, if they're out of alignment, they're the first one to touch. Then, they get a crown, and then the crown doesn't solve the problem, they still have problems so they now end up a root canal. That still doesn't solve the problems because that tooth is in a way when they close down and then they end up losing it. And, they just starts it down or spiral of losing teeth and losing teeth until they're–
Eniko: Then they put an implant. An implant fails, it's just not addressing the cause of it.
Eniko: So, what we did for you is looking at the function of the teeth and the bite analysis and bring the joints and the teeth together. That's what makes the biggest difference.
Ben: So, now that I've been wearing this little piece that you gave me is the plan today to use this machine to rescan and see how good of a job that thing has done thus far.
Eniko: It's a very good question. What we do is we're going to do a bite today with that small appliance that I made you. And, that is sent to Germany where I get my appliances from, There is only one lab in the world that I trust for this and they're in Germany. They use non-toxic materials–
Ben: Yeah. They make good shit in Germany usually, yeah.
Eniko: Non-toxic materials. So then, they design based on the bite that I obtained a new bite for you. And, that bite is transferred into that appliance.
Eniko: And, that appliance is an orthotic now that you wear. You know when somebody has maybe misaligned hips, they have an orthotic. Well, this would be an orthotic that helps guide your joints and muscles back into balance. And, the bite you're going to have when you're done with this when you take the appliance out is going to be very different than where you are today.
Eniko: So, in about six to eight weeks of wearing that appliance, the muscles, and the joints release, the joints go back into neutral posture and your joints determine where that needs to be. I'm not forcing you into anything.
Ben: Does somebody wear something like this all day long and all night long aside from when they're eating?
Eniko: Well, even when you're eating–
Ben: You wear it when you're eating?
Eniko: And, as you wear–
Ben: And, that's okay to do, it's not going to get damaged from chewing?
Eniko: No, they're well-made.
Eniko: Because what we design is a new bite inside the appliance and as you wear it and it's adjusted to–we adjust it to match your joint position, then that becomes your new bite.
Eniko: And, it allows the joints to function evenly.
Ben: It's very, very functional.
Eniko: Yeah. And, it's biological.
Ben: That's why it was made in Germany. We'll handle all the frankfurters and beer that [00:38:58]_____.
Eniko: I have one. You can eat carrots with it. You can eat nuts with it.
Ben: Great. I'm going to go eat nuts on the popcorn. You're going to love it. It's probably your dentist's favorite food, right? Caramel corn.
Eniko: Yeah, no.
Ben: It keeps you in business.
Ben: Alright, cool.
So, what do you want to show folks from here? I know we want to do a follow-up scan and show people how that works.
Ben: Was there any other test that you–I'm trying to remember if there are other tests that we ran the last time I was here.
Eniko: We did the bacterial test. I can–
Ben: That's right, the bacterial switch test. Yeah. Unless you want to do this scan first, I'd love to show people what the results of that bacterial test look like if that would be another valuable thing.
Eniko: Yeah, definitely.
Ben: Okay, yeah.
Eniko: We can do this and then I'll print that and we can review it together.
Ben: Let's do it.
Eniko: Alright, so have a seat–
Ben: Scan time.
Eniko: And, I have to match that little device.
Ben: Here we go. I better get a free sticker and a toothbrush after this. So, for those of you watching or listening, I'm going to put both the audio and the video and all the shownotes as well as more information on what Dr. Loud does. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/DrLoud like D-R Loud. BenGreenfieldFitness.com/DrLoud. So, if you want more information, all this stuff or maybe you're listening, you're like, “I'm going to go back and watch the video,” that's where it's all going to be. Alright.
Eniko: Danielle is going to be the one that does your scan. This is more of a 3D print of your, remember, based on that model. So, when you told me that you lost it, I had my technician reprint your model.
Ben: Oh, wow. Geez, that's nice–
Eniko: So, it's nice. Digital technology is amazing because you didn't have to be here for me to make this.
Eniko: I just hadn't print the models which is a digital record of how your teeth used to be, okay. And then, I made this little device. It's not as fancy as the one you had from Germany, but it'll do the work today.
Eniko: And, I have to check this to make sure that–
Ben: I did tell my sons when I left my house, $20 reward to find the fancy one from Germany.
Eniko: And, if they find it, we'll use it later on–
Eniko: –in a process.
Ben: It's kind of blue. I use methylene blue sometimes as a supplement, and it happens to have [00:41:08] _____ Invisalign a little blue. I also did a sunshine walk this morning with some of my friends. And, one of them was a doctor. Actually, a functional medicine doc. And, he came with these little methylene blue troches to dissolve in our mouths while we walked. So, you might even notice a little blue when you look inside my mouth today.
Ben: That's why. I haven't been eating Smurfs.
Eniko: And, I'll have you lean back a little bit.
Ben: Okay. Alright. So, for those of you listening, she's got this light over my mouth and I'm probably going to stop talking. She's got to go in there now. Alright.
Eniko: Let's see. So, this fits pretty good. See, this was made on a digital model of your teeth.
Eniko: And then, I'm going to have you close into that. Okay. And, do you feel anything touching in the back?
Eniko: No. Okay, you're not supposed to. And then, I'm just going to attach this.
Ben: I feel like a bunny rabbit.
Eniko: And then, go ahead, open, and tap, tap. And then, slide forward and back. Very good. Open. I'm just going to check it. That's looking good.
And then, do you feel how when you close into that this creates a little confusion right in your brain?
Eniko: Nothing is touching in the back.
Eniko: And, that's the first deep–
Ben: Yeah, it feels like I've got a lot of pressure on the left side of it but not a lot of pressure on the right side of it.
Eniko: When you close down–
Ben: Yeah, the left side is touching, the right side isn't.
Eniko: Okay. Alright, let's check that. Let me adjust it a little bit. So, you could tell the difference with the left–
Ben: And, be like princess and the pea with my [00:42:49] _____ device. Just perfect.
Eniko: How about now? Do you still feel the same pressure?
Ben: No. Now, it feels more even.
Eniko: It feels even.
Eniko: Open. And then, I'm also going to lean you back just to verify how it changes when you're leaning back. Go for a ride here.
Ben: I start snoring. That means I have sleep apnea.
Eniko: And, I'm going to use the other side. Tap, tap. And, it seems to be the same. What does it feel to you?
Ben: Now that I'm leaning back?
Ben: There's slightly more pressure on the left side than the right side, very slight though.
Eniko: Very slight, okay. So, let's dust that off here.
Ben: You have special filters in these rooms when you remove metal and things like that? Do you do that?
Eniko: Yes. Yeah, we do that. So, we do the safe mercury removal just like most holistic dentists–
Ben: Called safe mercury removal?
Eniko: Safe mercury, yeah. Use the rubber dam oxygen on the patient. We follow all the biological and holistic principles.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah, that's the other term was biological dentistry.
Eniko: I'm going to squirt a material between your teeth. It's a bite registration material that's going to allow us to scan your bite in this position.
Ben: What is it?
Eniko: It taste like bubblegum. We try to make dentistry a bit more palatable to patients, so we use better-tasting things.
Ben: You're good at understanding with people who talk with their mouth closed. By the way, I had a roasted garlic smoothie for breakfast this morning, I hope you don't mind.
Eniko: I don't smell it. I have a mask on. Alright, so Danielle's going to scan now your upper arch and lower arch.
Ben: Roasted garlic smoothie with some caramel corn sprinkled in for added crunch.
Eniko: Do you like–
Ben: The dentist's favorite breakfast. The breakfast of champions right before you go to the dentist. That's exactly what you want to eat. Trust me, everybody.
Eniko: Or, how about the gummy bear tube that we gave you? It's sugar-free. So, one of the things that we did when you came in, I did a video of your bite.
Eniko: And, I could show it to you, the bite–
Ben: Yeah, you had me chewing on a gummy bear when you video recorded how I was chewing up and down.
Eniko: So, when we look at the chewing motion dynamically, you can really see if there's this function. And, one of the things that I'll have you do after today is working with my functional therapist. And, she can work with you remotely to help retrain the chewing muscles because there's a lot of lateral traumatic chewing that causes the teeth to collide in an uneven way.
When we have healthy teeth and the teeth have their normal genetic form, the chewing is usually vertical and it's even on the left and right. You start watching people how they chew and you can actually trace it back to how their teeth are wearing down.
Eniko: Because if the chewing is really lateral, there's a lot of wear–
Ben: You can tell. I can't tell on how people chew.
Eniko: But, probably by the end of this process, you will learn about it–
Ben: Yeah, [00:45:51] _____.
Eniko: That was pretty bold of you.
Ben: That was pretty bold of you, yeah. I think it was a great idea, nonetheless because here we are.
Danielle: Alrighty. So, we'll do the scan. So, I'm going to start by scanning the lower teeth. I'm just going to dry off the teeth with the gauze.
Danielle: Okay. Alright, and just stay open.
Ben: Perfect. And, as we do this, by the way, if Eniko or if you want to explain at all what you guys are doing, feel free to fill in the gaps.
Eniko: So, she goes across the arches and gradually scans every tooth. And then, the machine will stitch the images together. It was just [00:46:28]_____ going around and capturing every single part of the tooth and the tissues.
Having this digital data allows us to visually transfer securely to Germany and work with them remotely. And, after you're done wearing the appliance and everything is stable, we verify it's stable, then we do a plan of how to restore the teeth to a stable bite. And, we work remotely with Germany.
Eniko: And, you'll be involved in that. It's a really neat process how digital you can rebuild the teeth and pretty much redesign the body to where it is going to be healthy long term.
Eniko: Because the goal is to keep our teeth for the rest of our lives, our own teeth, not fake teeth, not implants. So, that's really the end goal of the process is you're at a place where if we stabilize your bite, you will not have to suffer from broken teeth, or root canals, or crowns, or any of that. The best is to save natural enamel.
And, the process of rebuilding is also very conservative because we can use composite material which is like a resin material that we can rebuild–
Ben: They'll literally rebuild those worn-down tooth.
Eniko: Yeah. And last, because you stabilize the bite and the joints and the teeth now will be able to function harmoniously long-term. And, it's a process that works really well. You don't even have to be numb for this.
Daniella: Going to blow a little bit of air to dry up the tooth.
Eniko: So, she completed just finishing up filling in the lower arch making sure we have really detailed and accurate information.
Daniella: Alrighty, we'll go to the–
Eniko: Now, she's going to scan the outers.
Daniella: So, we'll dry again.
Explain why this approach is better than just going in and fixing stuff in one visit.
Eniko: That's really the point actually. So, the reason why looking at you as a whole and really doing all this analysis is important because often in dentistry, we start treating from disease. So, the patient comes in in a diseased state with diseased joints, dysfunctional bites. And then, the traditional approach is if somebody has worn down, let's just put a crown on every tooth or put a few veneers to make those teeth look better. But, what happens over time because the root cause was never addressed, the teeth keep breaking down. And then, they have to replace one tooth at a time here and there.
So, over time, it becomes so costly and they always end up having the mouth completely redone all over again. It's not an efficient way. And, you haven't really addressed the root causes of any of the diseases. So, by doing this proper analysis which takes time and really have to put all the information together, now when we restore your teeth, we're starting from–although the joints cannot be remodeled back to health, we're trying to create a balanced state where we're going to treat your teeth too. But, one of the things they did is I googled “what is optimal dental health?” and there's nothing. All they do is explain you how you should brush your teeth because there's a really big knowledge gap when it comes to what is optimum dental health. It can be interpreted in so many ways. And, that's because just like in medicine, we see diseased people all the time, 98% of my patients have disease.
So, in conventional dentistry, it's just kind of fixing when things break down instead of stepping back and saying, “Let's look at you as a whole, look at your function. Let's see what's going on in your body.” Also, look at the joints and the teeth and then decide, okay, what do we need to do to prevent this from happening in the future for you? But, we have to have in our mind what health is. We have to understand what healthy teeth are and healthy teeth. If you look at your boys, they'll have really rounded–really their teeth are so beautiful. They have this beautiful anatomy. Nature designed teeth to have sharp points. They have really rounded forms to them. When you look at their chewing surfaces, they're not flat ever. So, we're designed with function in mind. And then, the form of the teeth determines the function. So, if we lose the form of the teeth, the function will suffer. But, we have to always remember what health is and treat patients to health instead of disease states.
So, that's why when we're restoring the health, it's a state of rejuvenation. You become younger looking and you feel better. Your airway gets better, you're chewing better. What we notice in patients that go through this treatment is their face changes, their eyes open up wider, the wrinkles lessen. There's less strain on the face, so they look more open.
So, now, she's just filling in any areas that the scan needs more accurate data.
Danielle: Those wisdom teeth sometimes are a pain in the neck to get because they're all the way back there. Alright, so we left that process–
Ben: You did.
Danielle: I think we're good.
Danielle: And then, it'll let me know if I need to scan again to see if there's any inaccuracies at all.
Now, related to what Dr. Loud was saying, well, I had a giant apparatus in my mouth and couldn't talk this idea of this long slow approach to realigning. Before you go in and start to work on teeth that have been worn down before you start to fill them in or before you start to just slap a bunch of stuff in the mouth to fix it, because as Dr. Loud said, let's say you do that 10 years down the road, you got the same issues because your airway is still closed. You still have sleep apnea. Your jaws are realigned, so these teeth that you spend a bunch of money on are getting worn down. And so, it's kind of this concept of, let's say you have back pain, you could go in and pay a doc to do a spinal fusion or some type of surgery on the erector spinal muscles or a nerve block or something like that. Or, you could take the long slow functional sane preventive approach and actually go do back strengthening exercises and study the work of guys like Stu McGill and Dr. Eric Goodman and begin to do their exercises and begin to pay more attention to your workplace ergonomics, maybe standing chair or standing desk and essentially fix your body in a very smart yet patient manner.
And, I think that that's probably where the biggest, I guess, deficiency lies in many of aspects of health, whether it'd be dentistry or fitness or medicine is we want the fast track approach. We want to pop the pill and fix things. We want to get the surgery and fix things. We want to get the tooth just whatever painted or remolded or whatever. But really, what attracted me to the work of Dr. Loud is I've always been a fan of perseverance, endurance, putting in the work. And, this process that she's outlining is a multi-month process to do things like realign my jaw and realign my airway. But, I'd much rather have that and then live–I mean, because I'm 40 years old. So, let's say I have arguably just go with stats. I've got 36 years of life left, well, that means if I spend one year working on my mouth, I get 36 years of just not doing things like sleep apnea, or chewing issues, or bite issues, or headaches, poor sleep, or the things that go along with some of the issues that Dr. Loud discovers on the type of scans that she does. So, it's very, very interesting stuff. And, I'm super happy that you're able to listen and watch this if you are because I think a lot more people could use this type of approach and I think a lot more dentists could use this kind of information, which is why I wanted to put this podcast out.
Alright. Well, I think she's getting the oral DNA test. Is that right?
Danielle: She is. If you don't mind, I'm just going to rescan a couple–
Ben: Oh, yeah. Yup. Alright.
Danielle: When it gets wet sometimes–
Ben: I can do this all day long.
Danielle: Just throw it off.
Ben: I'm a trooper.
Danielle: So, bear with me. And then, we'll do the little–
Ben: TV screen [00:54:43] _____.
Danielle: That would be cool. That would be a good addition. Alright. So, I just have to dry a little bit again here.
Eniko: So, one of the really neat things about the next appliance that you're going to get is that once you start wearing it, you will start noticing yourself almost self-diagnosing of what is causing the teeth to be out of alignment. Because when you take it out in the morning to eat or to brush your teeth, you will feel a bite that's very different than what you're used to and it'll take a few minutes for things to go back, but you'll feel the tube that's been the culprit for all of it because that will be the first tube that touches.
So, often when teeth are out of alignment, or in your case, it could have been your wisdom teeth, we don't know yet so we do the complete analysis, is if the wisdom teeth come in at age 17 or 18 and if they come in and they're higher than the rest of the teeth, when a person bites they kind of teeter-totter on that wisdom tooth. So, the jaw if you bite on that tooth, the jaw gets pushed out of its socket for all the teeth to come together. So, it creates a teeter-totter. And, that often causes the lower jaw to shift up and forward. And, what shows is we're on the lower teeth.
Ben: I knew there was a reason kids at the playground are calling me teeter-totter jaw.
Danielle: I'll place this in.
Eniko: So, those little bite pieces we did will help her get your bite almost open position, but barely open position.
Ben: And so, that's a DNA test that you have now?
Eniko: Yes, I have it here.
Ben: Well, tell us about that.
Eniko: So, can I correlate it with your lab? So, one of the things I do is I request patients' recent labs from their physician if they have it available because one of the things I look for is their cardiovascular risk, especially if there's any history of it in all the paperwork that they fill out and/or any other disease risk in the family. I follow the functional medicine matrix. So, we look at history, family history, any triggers, any things that maintain disease states. And then, we kind of look to see where the imbalances are in different areas of the body.
And then, when I get the bacterial DNA test and you can see it here, it shows me what bacteria are in high numbers. So, if they were above the black line, they would be pretty dangerous high numbers. But, this is generalizing. Again, if somebody has the TD, which is a bacteria that can be linked to cardiovascular disease, and on the back page of this, you actually get a map of what bacteria related to what. So, when you have the TD and FN, this is a high-risk pathogen with systemic influences, these are moderate risk, this is lower risk. And, the risk has to do with how potent it is to cause systemic problems or local problems by aggressive gum disease. So, the TD and the FN, they're linked to cardiovascular health. And, on your labs, there were some concerns with that with some mild risk for you. So, these are the things that we link together. So, functional medicine is about linking.
Ben: Right. Like you're talking about in the introduction–
Eniko: Linking and thinking.
Ben: It's not just the mouth, it's the whole body. So, you're looking at elements of the blood.
Ben: Biomarkers and blood markers that would indicate that perhaps there is cardiovascular dysfunction or in the case of the–
Eniko: The risk.
Ben: Or, just the oral DNA, the microbiome in the mouth. Now, did you find any issues with the microbiome in my mouth?
Eniko: So, ideally, I want this gone, these two because–
Ben: Those high-risk pathogens and moderate risk pathogens.
Eniko: Yes. Even if it's in low numbers, so you're below the threshold, but who are we to know what the threshold is for your body, right?
Ben: Right. Because those are basically associated with [00:58:43] _____–
Eniko: So, this is a generalized just like in all gut tests they give you, this is the general population, the cohort, and this is you. And, that's based on long-term research that they do, but they do it always on unhealthy people, right?
Eniko: They don't do healthy biomes. So this, we want gone. And remember, this I mean as much of this we can let go of you some tools.
Ben: Yeah. Tell people about that because I'd love to hear from you with your body of knowledge what that ideal tooth care protocol or mouth care protocol would be for someone who does want to limit bacteria, or build up good bacteria, or use a toothpick versus a toothbrush, or whatever. So, what do you think like wake up in the morning, walk me through an average day of what you think the ideal tooth care regimen would be?
Eniko: So, ideal tooth care regimen based on this is what the ideal way to really design an ideal tooth care regimen. And, that's where I kind of created the 4R protocols. The four is removed. So, every morning, we wake up. After we have breakfast, we want to disrupt the biofilm that formed overnight. And, at night, we don't make a lot of saliva, so the saliva is usually antimicrobial. We have a lot more buildup. So, after breakfast, you want to brush your teeth. I'm a big fan of electric toothbrushes like the one I gave you.
Ben: I'm going to back up. What about when you first wake up in the morning, are you fan of oil pulling?
Eniko: Yeah. Oil pulling is great.
Eniko: Because you're going to have breakfast after you wake up.
Eniko: Right. So, the key is to brush your teeth after that. Some people prefer to brush their teeth even before, but you want to brush your teeth after you had your breakfast because otherwise, that food is going to stay on your teeth for 12 hours or however long.
Ben: Okay, got it. One other question, when you wake up in the morning, there are companies now that will sell things like HOCl for cleaning the mouth.
Ben: And, other companies of course like Scope that are more a mouth wash.
Ben: Now, do you think that those are good or bad for the oral microbiome?
Eniko: Some of them are good, some of them are bad. If there's alcohol in anything that dries out the mouth and disrupts the biofilm, oil pulling would be so much better.
Ben: Okay, got it.
Eniko: Coconut oil. Anything–
Ben: That was always my concern about those was because they–
Eniko: The less chemical–
Ben: They seem to just nuke everything.
Ben: And, considering the bacteria in your mouth will convert nitrites and into nitric oxide. I interviewed, I think it was Dr. Nathan Bryan, I might have talked about this in my podcast some time ago, but you actually can see if you have too clean of a mouth or using even fluoridated toothpaste to prevent and cause this a loss of nitric oxide.
Ben: Which is a pretty significant cardiovascular helpful.
Eniko: Helpful, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Eniko: So, we don't want to–
Ben: Okay. So, you're okay with coconut oil pulling–
Eniko: Anything that's not too like some toothpaste could be very abrasive. I like that what I gave you Biocidin because there's a lot of–
Ben: Biocidin toothpaste.
Eniko: Yeah. Biocidin–
Ben: Yeah, I like that stuff.
Eniko: Biocidin, it's a biofilm destructor but it doesn't harm your own. And, they have many, many years of studies where they use it in a gut that it's–
Ben: Yeah, I was going to say it's more commonly known as a way to disrupt biofilm in the gut and used by a lot of practitioners for that.
Eniko: Yes. They formulated a dental–
Ben: But, they also make a toothpaste.
Eniko: So, they have a load of rinse that I like a lot. And then, they also have, and we gave you that, the toothpaste.
Eniko: Which we get great results in our patients.
Eniko: It helps with harmful bacteria, but then it helps with preventing your own bacteria can be destroyed because we have bacteria that are helpful to us.
Ben: Yeah. So–
Eniko: Biofilm is not all bad.
Ben: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. After breakfast, brush.
Ben: I assume after lunch, brush–
Ben: Floss also after breakfast.
Eniko: I would floss because when you–so, the tissue between the teeth is much more delicate than the tissue on the outside.
Ben: What if you're a smoothie person like me? Do you certainly floss?
Eniko: I probably would.
Ben: Yeah. Okay, okay.
Eniko: When I give advice is depending on what I see on here, the one I see in the gum. So, somebody that has high cardiovascular risk and they have really high numbers of bad bacteria, we have to step up the hygiene. Then, we're brushing and flossing after every time we eat to try to disrupt as much as possible till we get things back to normal. And then, we can go to twice a day.
Ben: Okay, that makes sense.
Ben: So, meaning that in someone who does have some pretty significant issues, you'd recommend lunch also protocols similar to breakfast.
Ben: But, for a twice a day protocol, I assume a twice a day protocol will be breakfast, dinner.
Eniko: Dinner, yeah.
Ben: Okay. So, after dinner, what do you do?
Eniko: You brush your teeth with an electric toothbrush. And, I water picks too.
Ben: So, I was going to ask you.
Ben: Do you use a water pick and an electric toothbrush?
Ben: Okay. So, you do your toothbrush first, then your water pick?
Eniko: Usually floss, water pick, and then brush.
Ben: And, why do you like electric better than a regular?
Eniko: It's at least 40 times more efficient.
Ben: Oh, wow.
Eniko: And, I like Oral B specifically because the head is small and round and it rotates. And so, then it respects the anatomy of your teeth. The gum line is kind of oval-shaped, so it doesn't wear them away.
Eniko: And, it's really efficient at removing flock.
Ben: Got it. And then, one other question regarding mouth care, what about these supplements that they now sell that are typically chewables that are chewable probiotics?
Ben: Some with the good bacteria in the mouth. Do you like those?
Eniko: So, like I said, I have the 4R protocol. First one is remove. So, we remove any pathogenic bacteria, any bad habits, could be high sugar foods and diets, and honey could be bad too in some people. So, that's the first step. Then we replace. So, once everything is harmful that's removed, we replace with oral probiotics that you chew. And then, after that, we work on repairing barriers. So, that would be your supplements, your vitamin C, your zinc, your fish oils because the gums are a barrier.
Eniko: They are one of our first immune barriers in the body. And then, the last is rebalance because if you don't maintain habits long-term and you have a very stressful life and you don't get brushing your teeth, then it's not going to work long-term.
Eniko: So, our hygienist is actually a functional medicine certified health coach. So, she helps patients with goals for their own health.
Ben: Are they done with me here?
Ben: Okay. Alright, cool. So, basically, we've got this complete analysis both blood and saliva. It looks like I've got some pathogens that I need to address via the type of protocols you've just outlined to me. And then, in terms of the cardiovascular health, you mentioned you saw a few concerns there that could be related to Lp-PLA kind of high, which is moderate cardiovascular risk. So, anything else of note related to the mouth?
Eniko: Low copper–
Ben: Low copper.
Eniko: You're [01:05:21] _____ on that and low zinc.
Ben: Yup, yup.
Ben: Low copper and low zinc.
Eniko: And then, one of the things that was, lymphocytes were low. So, that could be a vascular inflammatory disease, the RBCs could be also related to some minor hypoxia at night, so sleep apnea.
Ben: Right, right.
Eniko: And, those are the things that we saw.
Ben: Wow, fascinating. So, it is really cool. You go into the rest of the body.
Eniko: Heart disease in your parents.
Eniko: So, we want to make sure that when it comes to the mouth, our role is to help you minimize any risk for your long-term health.
Ben: Got it.
Ben: So, I've done this scan. Now, is this pretty much the next step you're going to make the thing which what you call again?
Eniko: Yeah. We call it a Biorthosis.
Ben: The Biorthosis.
Ben: And, I'm going to be wearing that basically for how long?
Eniko: For about six to eight weeks.
Ben: Okay, for about six to eight weeks. And then, after that, what happens? Do you guys reach out to me and tell me I need to do another scan? Or, how do that work exactly?
Eniko: Yeah. So, during the six to eight weeks, we need to figure out how we're going to coordinate because there's some adjustments that need to be done to that appliance. As your body shifts, it needs to be adjusted, to move with your muscles.
Ben: And obviously, you're in Phoenix and I'm in Spokane.
Eniko: Yeah, so we'll have to figure that out.
Ben: When you work with patients remotely, do you ever do that like have them just [01:06:40] _____–
Eniko: Usually they fly in.
Eniko: But we'll figure it out.
Eniko: I can teach you some things, but we'll figure it out.
Ben: Yeah. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Eniko: Yes, yeah. So, the next step, once we have it, I'm going to ship it to you.
Eniko: I walk you through what needs to be. Ideal if you could be here so I can deliver it and make sure that everything is right.
Eniko: That would be best. And then, we'll work through the adjustments, we'll figure that out. And, once you're stable, then we have to verify that you're stable. So, we have to do a few records back-to-back. And then, at that point when I know by this table the joints are stable on the appliance, then when I do a workup. So, the workup is designing the new bite, figuring out where we need to add teeth to reproduce the position of your jaw that you're comfortable in.
Ben: And so, start to finish, I did this, I wore this little one after the skin and everything that was about one to two months. Sounds like I wear this next one for another like a couple of months, months and a half.
Ben: And then, after that, assuming that that has worked properly after that period time, then it's another visit to basically go through and do some of the recomposition of the TD.
Eniko: Yeah. So, that's a long visit–
Ben: So, it's almost like a kind of a three-ish step process.
Eniko: Yeah. So, when we–
Ben: A longer visit because you got to actually work on the actual mouth at that point.
Eniko: Yeah. So, that'll be a couple longer–
Ben: One would associate with more traditional dentistry–
Eniko: Yeah. And, that's what I'm doing. Yeah.
Eniko: That's right.
Ben: Wow. And, while you were outside of the room, I was just explaining how cool it is that this is a long-term patient perseverance process where it's really done from a preventive prophylactic standpoint rather than just going in with one visit and nuke in the mouth.
Ben: Along with, of course, the data. I'm super data-driven in my approach.
Ben: When I'm over the client, I want to see blood, saliva, urine, stool, HRV, sleep scores, body activity scores, step count. And so, I love to pull in all that data and then customize the program for them. And, you kind of doing that type of thing with dentistry.
Ben: It's super cool.
Ben: Yeah. Is there anything else you want to share with people here at the office or anything else that we haven't had a chance to go over that you think would be interesting for people to know about anything else that you do?
Eniko: There's a lot that we do. We do ozone therapies here too because when there's gum infection, that's–
Ben: Do you have ozone therapy machine here?
Eniko: Yeah, we have.
Ben: Can you show it to us?
Eniko: Yeah, I can show you.
Ben: Okay, cool.
Eniko: Come with me. We do laser, so we have one of the soft tissue and heart tissue lasers that you can heal bone with. That's over there.
Ben: Okay. So, a laser, you can actually fix bone with the laser.
Eniko: Yes, with this.
Ben: So, if someone has like broken teeth or is this more for–
Eniko: When somebody has bone infections from periodontal disease, this is an apparatus that is able to clean the bone. We also use it when we do kind of the cavitation types of stuff when I take teeth out. You go inside the extraction socket and just atraumatically removes anything. It can penetrate about 100 microns into the bone and still doesn't affect the bone.
Eniko: And then, we use this in combination with ozone also to treat infections.
Ben: And, with the ozone–actually show us the ozone generator. I'm just curious because ozone obviously is something you're not supposed to breathe in. so, I'm curious how you do that with the mouth.
Eniko: So, this is what we use. You can make ozonated water.
Ben: I own one of these.
Ben: Okay. So, you do ozonated water.
Ben: Okay, yeah.
Eniko: So, we make ozonated water and also gas. So, then there's different protocols you use for injecting into. You can inject into the socket–
Ben: Yeah, for the gas, you do that through olive oil.
Eniko: When they do a nasal, when they breathe through their nose, then it goes through all of it.
Ben: Yeah, because the reason you do through olive oil, you guys, if you're breathing into ozone, you got to encapsulate it in like a lipid, otherwise it'll do damage to the respiratory tract. If you're drinking ozone, you don't have to pass it through oil. If you're doing a rectal or a vaginal inflation or insufflation, you have to go through oil.
Ben: But, if you're going to breathe at any point, it's got to pass through a lipid first. So, very cool.
Eniko: So, we have that. We usually use those after extraction or somebody has issues.
Eniko: That's where kind of we use that.
Ben: Wow. So cool. So many toys. Amazing.
Eniko: That's kind of it.
Ben: Wow. Well, here's the thing. What you guys are going to be able to do is leave your questions and your comments and your feedback for Dr. Loud or for me. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/D-RLoud like Dr. Loud. And, in addition, as we go through this process, I'll be giving you some updates about what's happening with the jaw, with the airway, with the mouth. I might do a little home MacGyvered SpO2 measurements and fill you guys in on those. But, stay tuned. Kind of like a few months ago was the month of the hair and the beard. These next few months might be the months of the teeth. So, stay tuned. I'm Ben Greenfield and your website Dr. Loud just in case people want to visit.
Eniko: It's wholehealthdentistryaz.com.
Ben: Wholehealthdentistryaz.com. And, I'll link to it in the shownotes as well. So, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. And, thanks for listening and watching if you're an overachiever. Until next time. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Loud signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com. Have an amazing week.
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I've done plenty of podcasts about “holistic dentistry” in the past, including:
- Is Charcoal Toothpaste OK, 8 Crucial Mouth Beauty & Oral Health Tips, Peptides For Oral Care, The Invisible Dental Flow In Your Mouth & Much More With Nadine Artemis.
- It’s All In Your Mouth: How Your Teeth Are Impacting Your Immune System, Sleep, Performance, Inflammation & Much More (& What You Can Do About It With Holistic Dentistry).
But when a dentist named Dr. Eniko Loud walked up to me at a health conference and began telling me about a host of issues she saw from across the room, specifically related to my jaw and teeth, I perked up and listened, because I could tell right away she was very smart.
Then I went and visited Dr. Loud at her Whole Health Dentistry clinic in Phoenix, Arizona, where she offers functional dentistry and holistic care via advanced dental procedures, health and nutritional coaching for men, women, and children. Being trained in functional medicine and equipped with advanced dental training, Dr. Eniko Loud implements a host of cutting-edge tools and techniques I'd never heard of before.
Her Whole Health Wellness philosophy involves balancing the three body systems. Your hormonal system produces your sex and stress hormones; your digestive system breaks down food for use by the body; and your detoxification system protects you from free radicals and chemical toxicity, both from your environment and from your diet. Every health issue can be traced back to a problem within one or more of your three body systems. Through targeted lab testing that you can do in the privacy of your own home for each of these systems, Dr. Eniko Loud is able to assess how each system is working and design a program to rebalance your body. With an individualized diet plan, a scientifically based supplement program, stress reduction, and exercise, a person’s health can improve dramatically—not only physically, but emotionally. With an ongoing wellness plan, many health problems can be avoided, such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease, obesity, and female hormone imbalances.
Her services include spectrum thermography, safe amalgam removal, biological dentistry, oral surgery, Invisalign, and many other advanced but holistic dental protocols. Dr. Eniko Loud's credentials include:
- 1999 – Received a DDS from the University of Oradea, Romania – 2002 moved to the USA
- 2006 – Obtained her DMD from Case Western Reserve University School of Dental Medicine, graduating at the top of her class.
- 2006 – Completed an AEGD residency, obtaining extensive experience in full-mouth rehabilitation and complex implant dentistry.
- 2011 – Became the Market Dental Director for Bright Now Dental, overseeing the clinical development of 13 dental offices.
- 2019 – completed a 3-year functional medicine program and became a certified IFM provider – globally only 3 dentists are certified.
- 2020 – certification of Biorthosis – only dentist certified in Arizona.
- She is a member of:
- 200-hr certified yoga instructor
In this episode, you'll discover:
-Dr. Loud's background and history with holistic dentistry…07:45
- BGF podcasts on holistic dentistry:
- Is Charcoal Toothpaste OK, 8 Crucial Mouth Beauty & Oral Health Tips, Peptides For Oral Care, The Invisible Dental Flow In Your Mouth & Much More With Nadine Artemis.
- It’s All In Your Mouth: How Your Teeth Are Impacting Your Immune System, Sleep, Performance, Inflammation & Much More (& What You Can Do About It With Holistic Dentistry).
- Trained in Europe as a dentist and a physician
- Trained in conventional dentistry in the U.S.
- Introduced to and became certified in functional medicine
- Took on the concept of functional medicine
- Conventional dentistry
- Bridges the gap between functional medicine and holistic dentistry
- Also trained in bioesthetic dentistry which looks at the root causes of disease of the teeth
- Treating the body, not just the teeth
- Carved out her own niche as a dentist/physician
- Takes a team approach to treating patients:
- Functional therapists
- Physical therapists
- Planning to open a “master class” in the future
- Ben's holistic dentist in Spokane, Dr. Craig Simmons of The Holistic Dental Center
-A review of Ben's scans from his previous visit…13:15
- Columbine Scan is a 3D imaging device that looks deep into the teeth, into the joints, measures the airways, looks in the sinuses; looks for hidden infections and systemic diseases
- 80% of heart attacks and strokes are from the mouth
- Bacteria from the mouth is inhaled, most often causing upper respiratory infections
- Small amounts of blood or cuts can be openings for bacteria to enter the bloodstream
- DNA saliva test to sequence the bacteria
- Cone beam scan measures bone density
- Results are reviewed by a radiologist
- Two scans: the head and the neck area
- Looking for degenerative disease in the joints
- Symptoms of dislocation in the jaw:
- Tightness of the jaw in the morning
- Clicking and popping noises
- Migraines, neck pain
- Difficulty chewing hard foods
- Dysfunctions in the nasal cavity are common
- Looks at and measures the airway; constricted nasal passages possibly causing sleep apnea
- The Oura Ring is very soon going to be able to measure SpO2 levels (% of oxygen in the blood)
- For sleep apnea, a professional home sleep test (two nights) to measure:
- Brain waves
- Heart rate
- Oxygen saturation level
- SpO2 night levels for someone with sleep apnea can go as low as 80s, enough to cause mitochondrial dysfunction
- Cumulative effects of minor hypoxia lead to more damage over time
- Tooth wear is related to a restricted airway; the more teeth wear down, the more the airway and the tongue are pushed back
-The Intraoral scanner…28:51
- Creates a cast (3D printed) for the mouth to retrain mind/muscle connection; to get joints back into the proper location
- Muscle memory and brain memory work when teeth come together
- Goal of a balanced bite is for the teeth to come together evenly
- It's the imbalance in the bite that causes the wear in the teeth
- Balanced bite and nighttime grinding don't go together
- When the teeth are not in the right position, the brain wants to balance everything out
- When a tooth wears down, it loses its supporting enamel and starts wearing out the dentine (softer inner part of the tooth, wears 6x faster); eventually the tooth cracks
- Tooth loss often occurs when teeth wear down
- Pain always starts in the back molars; first to touch when closing the mouth (when out of alignment)
- Gets a crown but the crown does not solve the problem
- Then gets a root canal that still does not solve the problem
- Then an implant but the implant will fail
- Addressing the problem:
- Bite analysis to look at the function of the teeth to bring the joints and the teeth together makes the big difference
- Bite appliance is made in Germany; worn all the time
-A bacterial test and undergoing a scan of Ben's mouth in real-time…39:15
- Methylene Blue Troche
- Safe mercury removal
- Looking at chewing motion dynamics reveals dysfunction
- Ben to work with a multi-functional therapist to retrain chewing muscles to correct lateral chewing
- Lateral chewing causes the teeth to collide and wear unevenly
- Healthy teeth allow for vertical chewing
- The end goal is to keep natural teeth throughout our lifetime
- Doing proper analysis creates a balance that lasts for a long period of time
-Why “optimal dental health” is a misnomer…49:50
- There is a big knowledge gap in what is optimal dental health
- Just like in medicine, 98% of patients have disease
- Conventional dentistry just fixes when things break down instead of looking at the function as a whole
- The form of the teeth determines the function
- Function suffers if the form is lost
- Treating patients to health is a form of rejuvenation
- Become younger looking
- Feel better
- Airways get better
- Chew better
- The face changes
- Eyes open up wider
- Wrinkles lessen
- Less strain on the face
-The results of Ben's oral DNA test…54:28
- Looking at biomarkers that indicate cardiovascular dysfunction
- TD (Treponema Denticola) and FN (Fusobacterium Nucleatum) can be linked to cardiovascular health
- Low copper and low zinc
- Functional medicine is about linking
-An ideal tooth care protocol…59:08
- Dr. Loud's 4R protocol:
- Biocidin toothpaste
- Oil pulling is great
- HOCl for cleaning mouth
- Mouthwash with alcohol is not ideal; alcohol dries out the mouth
- Oral B electric toothbrush is what Dr. Loud recommends
-What occurs after the treatment…1:05:57
- The dental appliance is called the Biorthosis
- To be worn for 6-8 weeks
- Adjustments will be made on the Biorthosis in that time
- Whole Health Dentistry center also offers
- Ozone therapy for gum infection
- Laser therapy (soft and hard tissue laser) for bone and periodontal disease; can penetrate up to 100 microns into the bone
- Makes ozonated water and gas for use after extractions
- Ben uses the Quantum 5 Ozone Generator
-And much more…
- FreeDiving Summit (February 1 – 3, 2022)
- Six Senses Retreat Portugal (March 7 – 11, 2022)
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar
Resources mentioned in this episode:
– Dr. Eniko Loud:
– BGF podcasts:
– Other Resources:
- Oura Ring
- Methylene Blue Troche
- Safe Mercury Removal
- Kion Immune
- Fish Oil
- Biocidin Toothpaste
- Oil Pulling
- Chewable Probiotics
- Oral B Electric Toothbrush
- Quantum 5 Ozone Generator
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