[3:57] Blue Apron
[5:40] Introduction to today’s episode
[7:13] All about Dr. Daniel Pompa
[9:20] Dr. Dan's Story
[14:28] What is a Challenge Test?
[21:42] Should People Still Be Worried About Metal Poisoning
[24:26] What Dan Did To Get Rid Of the Metals
[29:49] The Errors Other Detoxification Protocols Are Making
[33:50] What is Zeolite
[40:38] How To Do Dan's Five R's
[56:24] What is Hydrolized Zeolite
[1:02:45] Clinoptilolite Zeolite or Cyto Detox
[1:04:30] How Long One Would Use Cyto Detox For
[1:08:02] How Cyto Detox Got Developed
[1:17:14] End of Podcast
Ben: Hey, folks. I'm back, back at it. (takes a sip of coffee) And when I say back at it, I mean back at that annoying habit of sipping coffee during my podcast introduction for you. It's because I've been getting up early. All this travel forces me to duck into my basement in the wee hours, where my recording studio is, and get this stuff ready for you before I go hop on a plane. But it also means I'm drinking coffee once again while I record. So today, you're going to hear an episode with, sorry, I'm distracted. My puppy just came in the room. We have a new puppy, a Blue Heeler named Comet to go along with our Rhodesian Ridgeback named Blitzen. I digress.
Today's podcast is with Dr. Dan Pompa, cellular detoxification expert. That sounds like kind of a woo-woo term, cellular detoxification, but this guy is actually one of the best chiropractic docs on the face of the planet, somebody a ton of physicians look up to as a source of outside-the-box thinking, and you will discover what I mean by that when you listen in to today's show. I will tell you that this is not the normal Q & A with Rachel and I that you're used to hearing on Wednesdays, a) because we're now releasing interviews on Wednesdays interspersed with the Q & A and banter between Rachel and I.
Also at the time that you're hearing this, I'm either losing track of my schedule. I'm either hunting elk in the mountains of Colorado near Trinidad, Colorado with my bow, or I am filming a TV show in Burbank, California which I'll tell you about at some point, but I'm sworn to secrecy right now. The other thing is that I just returned from Malibu, California where I recorded a couple other great podcast episodes for you with Neil Strauss and Rick Rubin, both really interesting episodes. I also worked out with Neil and Rick just yesterday in the gym of the guy who's called “The Fittest Old Guy on The Face of the Planet.” We did the old school workout called “The Hardest Workout in the World” from Esquire Magazine. So we did this in the basement of Don Wildman's home. And basically, Don has a bunch of pneumatic pump exercise machines all lined up in a row, and you do 30 repetitions of each machine, then 20, and then 10. And between each rep, you do abdominal exercise. We went two hours. Just a machine based circuit, which was interesting and induced slight rhabdomyolysis, or excessive muscle damage, and inflammation, and peeing slightly orange before I got on the plane.
However, I have to say that I'm still a bigger fan of my own gym, and the reason for that is because my own gym is comprised of a bunch of functional equipment: tires, sandbags, big kettlebells, little kettlebells, ballistic medicine balls, a speed rope, a battle rope. My entire gym is pretty much outfitted by this company called Onnit. You need to point your web browser to o-n-n-i-t dot com, and go check out the stuff these guys have in their gym. Do I think that I will live longer than this guy, Don Wildman, whose workout we did yesterday? Yes. If I keep swinging these zombie-faced and chimp-faced kettlebells around? Quite possibly, 150, 180, hundred, I dunno. I'm just throwing some numbers out there. Anyways, Onnit. How do you save? You go to onnit.com/bengreenfield, and you can get 10% off any supplements and foods, you can get 5% off anything you need to make your gym more than just a machine-based circuit, which is great if you have a bum knee, but I honestly am just a bigger fan of functional moves. Just saying, even though I had a great workout yesterday.
Okay. This podcast is also brought to you by what I consider to be one of the best ways to learn how to cook conveniently and get fresh meals delivered to your home. It's called Blue Apron. And one thing I wanted to point out to you, alright, get out the Prairie Home Companion music, sit back, put on your prairie muffin dress, and lean back in your rocking chair. Cooking together build strong family bonds. I'm not kidding. My kids and I cook these Blue Apron meals together, and then we actually sit down and watch Master Chef. It's like this weekly thing that we do. They did research on this and they showed that people who cook with these meals that get delivered to your home, they cook nearly three times more often, they spend more time together, they eat together more often, but Blue Apron is more than that.
Their beef is raised humanely, their chickens are free-range, their pork is ranged naturally, they use regenerative farming practices, their seafood is sourced sustainably. They put it all together, they ship it to your house with recipe cards that allow you open a box and just cook whatever you wanna cook based off of what Blue Apron has sent to you. Actually, it's not whatever you wanna, unless you're one of those independent learners who, when you were a kid, dumped all the Legos out of a box, threw away the instructions, and built your own version of what was on the cover. No. They include recipe cards, just like Lego boxes include Lego instructions, and you simply follow. One, two, three, boom, and you're a five star chef. You can get three meals free with free shipping when you go to blueapron.com/ben. Three meals free with free shipping at blueapron.com/ben. Blue Apron, drum roll please, a better way to cook.
Alright. Let's jump into today's episode with Dr. Dan Pompa.
In this episode of The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“The number one source of lead is actually our mothers. Meaning that during pregnancy, women lose bone. It's unnatural, but that's where the lead is stored. And out comes the lead, into the baby in utero, then through the breast milk. So literally, it is estimated to be four generations of disease of lead toxicity.” “The frustrating part is there's right now a gap in what's happening in science and what's happening in the treatment world. Meaning that we know these toxins are entering the cell, we know that most of these conditions are epigenetic.”
He’s an expert in human performance and nutrition, voted America’s top personal trainer and one of the globe’s most influential people in health and fitness. His show provides you with everything you need to optimize physical and mental performance. He is Ben Greenfield. “Power, speed, mobility, balance – whatever it is for you that’s the natural movement, get out there! When you look at all the studies done… studies that have shown the greatest efficacy…” All the information you need in one place, right here, right now, on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.
Ben: Hey, folks. It's Ben Greenfield here, and it was in 1974 that the World Health Organization stated that environmental toxins create approximately 84% of all chronic diseases. And over the past 40 years, that number has gone way up and there's something called cellular toxicity, that's one of the major epidemics of our lifetime, and it's kinda like this underlying cause of numerous health issues that a lot of people simply don't talk about. Well, I am sitting here in Park City, Utah after competing in the Train to Hunt National Championships with the guy who is probably the world's leading authority on detoxification, and specifically this concept of cellular detoxification. We've been out riding mountain bikes, experimenting with ketosis, taking crazy cyto detox supplements, and basically geeking out on all things exercise, nutrition, fitness, and detoxofication related. His name is Dr. Daniel Pompa and he travels all over the country, educating practitioners and the public on everything from weight loss resistance, to hypothyroid, to diabetes, to chronic fatigue. I can tell you right now that he is a killer mountain biker, and he, himself, I think my saddle sores are speaking to that, saddle sores I'm sitting on right now, not enough chamois cream yesterday. Dr. Dan, welcome to the show.
Dan: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, that was quite some fun we had on the bike. That's for sure.
Ben: It was. And it's kind of funny because, for those of you listening in, this guy walks the walk and he talks the talk. His daughter here is doing, what? A four, five day fasting protocol? And your kids are experimenting with liquid ketones, and it's one of those super-duper healthy households. So it's a real honor to be sitting here with Dr. Dan and talk with you guys about this stuff. But one thing I was thinking about this morning, as I was actually out mountain biking in your backyard, Dan is…
Dan: Yeah. From the house.
Ben: Yeah, from your house, is I sometimes feel as though I've been left out because I don't have that whole wounded healer story, right? Like I was just always kinda like into fitness and into nutrition. But I know you went through a period of your life where you were super toxic, which is, from what I understand, how you got interested in this stuff. Can you tell us about what exactly happened to you?
Dan: Yeah. I mean, I was a chiropractor at the time and I had an amazing practice in helping a lot of people. We had two young babies at the time. So life as I knew it was really good, it was going along just fine. Then it started with fatigue and I was literally, in probably the best fitness level of my career at that time. I was racing bikes at the expert level and I was fit.
Ben: Mountain bikes?
Dan: Mountain bikes and road. Road, I was a Cat 3. I literally just did road to train for mountain biking. But needless to say, I was in the best shape of my life. I had some big races coming up, and all of a sudden fatigue hit. And, like most athletes, I thought surely I'm overtraining. Backed off, came back at it. Fatigue, this time headaches. Backed off longer, and this time it was two full weeks just off the bike. I mean, just because I just said, “You know, something's not right.”
Dan: And the fatigue went to anxiety, to sleeplessness, insomnia, panic attacks, became allergic to every food on the planet. Couldn't even figure it out. Random bloatedness and just bizarre symptoms. Looking back, I mean I knew my thyroid wasn't working right, my hair was starting to fall out. I mean, I'm progressing now ahead. This is what happened. My adrenals were shot. I couldn't even handle loud noise. My wife would have to take the baby out of the house because the screaming would just send my adrenals in to fits. You know what Ben, like most practitioners, I thought, obviously address the adrenals and the thyroid. But every time I did, it would seem like certain things would get better and other things would get worse. So the bottom line was that now I'm into this years, still wondering what the heck was going on, and life as I know it is not the same.
Ben: So, at that point, were you a doctor of chiropractic?
Dan: I was. Yeah. No, I was a doctor. My degree gave me the ability to read literature. Nights I couldn't sleep, many of them I was met with just…
Ben: The hidden bonus. You get to lay awake with the…
Dan: Right. And those were good nights. The bad nights, I was just out of my mind. I'm telling you. The bad nights, I just had debilitating panic attacks, and just anxiety, and a feeling of dread is how I would always describe it to my wife. But on the nights where I just couldn't sleep, I would research and learn. I literally had a photographic memory because of my dyslexia when I was a kid, and it was one of the gifts of being a dyslexic is I could remember everything I read, and here I was brain fogged most of the time now.
So it was like taking Superman's gift away, I mean giving him Kryptonite. That's what I felt like. I had Kryptonite. I had no strength, no energy, no brain, but yet when I did have it, I would read, I would research. And years of trying to figure out what was wrong, and I'll just fast forward for the sake of the show here, I became friends with an endocrinologist, a bright guy. Wrote his book, read many of his books, and became friends with him. And he said, “You know, Dan, I think you have mercury poisoning.”
Ben: Who was this guy?
Dan: Bruce Rind.
Ben: Bruce Rind?
Dan: Just an absolute brilliant guy. I thought I said, “You know, Bruce? I thought so too at one point because I had found Mad hatter's disease,” I don't know if you recall what that is, but the people who were making felt hats used mercury to attenuate all, which they were trying to kill, but they became known as mad as a hatter, right?
Ben: Did that precede the “Alice In Wonderland” book or was the “Alice In Wonderland” character named the…
Dan: It preceded that. Yes. Exactly. It wasn't just the LSD.
Ben: So these people had like metal poisoning?
Dan: They did. They had metal poisoning, mercury poisoning…
Ben: But you weren't making hats. You were riding bikes.
Dan: I was not. However, I said, “I am mad as a hatter,” and I had these symptoms. So due to that, I went and got tested. I did blood work and I thought, “Yeah. Maybe that is a possibility.” One of the most frustrating parts of my illness was most of my blood work looked like a very healthy guy. I looked, on the outside, like a very healthy guy. So of course I was looked at as like it must be all in your head many times. Trust me. But the blood work, the mercury level was within normal range. He said, “You know, Dan, you did the wrong test. Do this test.” And I did it, and it was more of a challenge test to pull it out of the tissue. And then my results showed that, in fact, I had tons of mercury and some other metals that were a concern. However…
Ben: Now, can I interrupt you for a second?
Dan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Ben: ‘Cause I hear this thrown around a lot when it comes to metal detoxification inside of a challenge test. What exactly is a challenge test for people who may not have heard of this before?
Dan: Yeah. If you just look at the blood, it's only gonna be positive on an acute exposure, meaning you're getting exposed practically every day. If you just look at the urine, same thing. You're only looking at what your body is just able to get rid of, and typically an acute exposure. If you look at hair, it's typically what your body is able to get rid of, and there's a lot of other factors with hair. So when you take an agent that's a true binder, and we can talk a little bit more about that because there's a lot of misconceptions there, but a true binder, will grab it, pull it out, and then we can look at the urine. Because it's not what's floating around the blood, sick chronic poisoned people, it's deep in the tissue. And therefore, we have to take something that pulls out of tissue. Look, there's no perfect test because, really, ultimately, when I was looking for what was wrong, I knew that there was something with my hypothalamus-pituitary, for your listeners, that's the center of your brain.
Ben: HPA axis?
Dan: HPA axis. That's what regulates your hormones. That's what regulates your thyroid, your adrenals, and really your whole endocrine, your hormonal system.
Ben: Yeah. A lot of athletes have issues with that axis from stress.
Dan: No doubt. Absolutely. Any type of stress, and brought up a good point because physical, athletes, chemical was my issue and physical, 'cause I was training a lot.
Ben: Yeah. You hit that one-two combo.
Dan: Absolutely. Or emotional. The body doesn't know the difference of stress. However, I was in this stressed mode and it's no place to be. But the bottom line was is I knew that something was wrong with that axis. I just didn't know what. Well, reading studies, after I realized, “Oh my gosh. I do have a mercury issue.” It was two days after I had two silver amalgam fillings drilled out, I just happened to look over here and there's a DVD here, “The Evidence of Harm: Mercury Dental Fillings.” So this was put out by a lot of dentists.
Ben: Was this a new DVD?
Dan: Yeah. It's relatively new.
Ben: I'll link to this one in the show notes.
Dan: Yeah. Give that.
Ben: By the way, for those of you listening in, I'll take notes as Dan and I are talking. So if you go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/pompa, that's how you spell Dan's last name, P-O-M-P-A, bengreenfieldfitness.com/pompa, I'll link to everything that Dan and I are talking about. Okay. So this challenge test, it pulls metals out of the body and puts them into your urine, so can then pee and figure out what kind of metals are built up within your body? Is there like a name for the gold standard form of that type of test?
Dan: Yeah. I mean, there's a company called Doctor's Data that I believe they're the best.
Ben: Okay. And that's about like a urine challenge test?
Dan: Yes. It's a six hour challenge.
Ben: Six hour challenge test? Okay.
Dan: Urine challenge. Heavy metal urine.
Ben: I'll link to that in the notes. So you did this test?
Dan: Yeah. Did the test, and again it's not looking what's in the brain, it's looking what's in the tissue. But it does give us some reflection of what's harbored deep inside the body, and the brain in my case. And by the way, that's one of the problems. People think that, “Oh, we'll just do this metal detox.” “I've done mental detox.” “How long?” “Three months.” Well, look. I accumulated these metals from my fillings primarily, but I had other sources over 30 years. It vaporizes. Those silver fillings in your mouth which, by the way, most countries have banned, they put bans on them, still being put in kid's mouths today. Hopefully less. However, they contain 50% mercury, and do vaporize that mercury for the life of the filling. And folks, you can go on YouTube, and I know, Ben, you've seen this in probably many of your listeners, it's the smoking tooth video where they show a 25 year old filling off gassing mercury. So, look.
Ben: Smoking tooth video?
Dan: Smoking tooth video.
Ben: I actually haven't seen this. I have to check it out.
Dan: It's fantastic.
Ben: Alright. Cool.
Dan: I interviewed the gentleman who did that video years ago.
Dan: Yeah. It's amazing. Dr. Kennedy put that video together and other scientists have duplicated it. But, okay, so the bottom line is a 25 year old filling will vaporize mercury right into your brain, and that's what happens in the life of the fillings. So this stuff bioaccumulates for years. So to think that you're gonna get it out of your brain in three months, six months…
Ben: Well, that's what most, like you look at most metal detoxification programs, 'cause I've talked about 'em before on the podcast, that's what, like even me, like when I've done metal detox, it's been 30 days.
Dan: Yeah. No. Exactly.
Ben: So you're saying that doesn't work?
Dan: It doesn't work. Look, we grew up in the lead generation. We grew up in the mercury generation. Let me explain. So, if you look back, it wasn't until about 1978 when lead was even taken out of gasoline, paint, et cetera. Every old home built before 1978, if you test the dust, it's loaded with lead. The number one source of lead is actually our mothers. Meaning that during pregnancy, women lose bone. It's unnatural, but that's where the lead is stored. And out comes the lead, into the baby in utero, and then through the breast milk.
So literally, it is estimated to be four generations of disease of lead toxicity starting from our mothers. So even though there's not as much lead in the things, while the stuff from China still has lead. I mean there's still lead. Trust me. However, not to level, but it's four generations. Two ways, Ben. Because, number one, we know that the lead actually triggers genes of susceptibility. So it can trigger your thyroid problem, it can trigger your diabetes, turn on these genes. That's one way.
Ben: So you're saying if I did a 23andMe test and tell 'em that I had a genetic susceptibility to something like hypothyroidism, and then when you look at the epigenetic factor, like an environmental factor that could trigger that, something like metal could actually cause that to happen?
Dan: Absolutely. Even weight gain and even weight loss resistance. Matter of fact, it was a Stanford University study where they took mice, identical twins, gave one group a toxin, turned on what is called their agouti gene, made them obese and some other health conditions. And they gave another group, fed 'em the same exercise, and the same, just the toxin was the only difference, that gene was turned on, not just in that group that became obese because of the toxin. Now it didn't matter what they ate. Remember, two groups eating the same exercise and one became fat. They were exposed to the toxins. The obesity gene was turned on. Now, the sad part was is the next generation, fed perfect, got fat. Those children got fat without being exposed to the toxin. It was just the fact that the gene was turned on and inherited in the next generation. So lead, four generations directly from mom to baby, from the lead that's stored in the bones, into the baby, and the gene that gets turned on. Now, were also part of the mercury generation. It was in everything. Contact lens fluid, which by the way I also wore, was the number one adult source before the 1990s. So it was in all of the solutions.
Ben: No way. That doesn't happen anymore?
Dan: No. Not anymore. No. It's been outlawed. But until the early 90's, it was still there. We're putting it right into our eyes. So, silver fillings, the contact lens fluid, merthiolate, remember that? My dad would slather me with that red stuff. There was mercury in it. Mercury oxide.
Ben: I wanna get back in a second here to how you detoxed once you found this out, but just playing devil's advocate here, haven't we kinda gotten rid of mercury fillings, lead paint, like a lot of these issues. Are these still things people need to worry about?
Dan: Well, yeah. I mean, here's the point. We have gotten better. Unfortunately, there's still fillings being put in, but let's say we got rid of all of them, it's generational. And that's the point. So, here's the point too. There was a study in one of the most prestigious medical scientific journals in the world, Facet, that showed that the number of fillings in our mouth is proportional to how much they find in the brain, in particular the pituitary hypothalamus, and the liver, and the kidneys as well as other organs. So we know it vaporizes into the brain. The duress study showed the number of fillings in mom's mouth is proportional to how much we find in the baby's brain, and these are autopsy studies.
So the World Health Organization has said these fillings are unfit to be put in humans. I mean we know this, but there's congressional pushback. I mean, every year, well not almost every year, before congress, there is a press to make amalgam filling, call it what it is, hazardous waste. And here's what you have to understand, and your listeners, before it goes in your mouth, it's categorized as hazardous waste by OSHA and every government body. The moment goes in your mouth, it's called safe. They decategorize it. The moment it comes out and hits the dental tray, it's back to hazardous waste. So the comment there is don't insult our intelligence. I don't care who you believe or what, that stuff's hazardous waste, it vaporizes mercury, and it goes into your brain.
Ben: Wow. Okay So we've got paint, we've got fillings, are there other sources in our environment that we now are getting exposed to?
Dan: Yeah. I mean, look. There's obviously a push, and we hear a lot about the air, the political agenda of global warming, whether you agree with it or not, it's not the point I'm going to make.
Ben: Brake dust. I've heard brake dust is one.
Dan: There's so much still in the air. From factories, energy producing factories, you name it, a lot of different products. It's still there. But let's say there was none, what we inherit from our parents is massive. And that's the point. It's generational. But, yes, we're still being exposed to high levels. And it's obviously something that's a neurotoxin. It gets in deep into the brain, and for our point again, it doesn't come out in months. It does take time.
Ben: My wife has had filling. That's interesting. So my kids could have a metal for my wife having that filling?
Dan: And there's no doubt about it.
Ben: That's crazy.
Dan: According to the duress study, it's in their brain.
Ben: It's so scary.
Dan: It's in their brain.
Ben: So what did you do to get rid of metals? You talked to this doctor and he has you do this challenge test, you found out metals were high. Then what happened?
Dan: Yeah. It's amazing too, because my first comment was, “Where do you think I got it?” He said, “Do you have any dental work done around the time this happened?” I said, “You know, I think one of my best friends, he took out two silver fillings, put in gold.” And there's something called galvanism that happens. So if you have, look in your mouth. So if you see those dark fillings in a mirror, that's an amalgam filling that we're talking about that has 50% mercury. If you have other metal in your mouth via crown, braces, whatever, another metal from a root canal, who knows. But that causes something called galvanism, which is an electrical current. Number one, the brain hates it, and it causes your brain to malfunction just from the current alone, the galvanism.
And by the way folks, if you understand, it's a battery effect. What a battery is it's basically two opposing metals in an acid. That's exactly what's happening in your mouth, and that battery effect affects the brain. However, studies also show that it creates the mercury to come out of those fillings, even 10 times faster than normal. It causes it to vaporize. So he put gold in, and I still had about four fillings, six maybe, in my mouth, and it just started to flow out even faster.
So that was when I got that news, it could be the fillings. I immediately went, called my buddy, “When did you put those fillings in?” The irony was I was cycling and I had everything journaled of how I felt, when, what. Two days after I got those fillings out is when my bottom fell out. So my warning is this: if you do your own research on amalgam filling, yeah, you'll be very upset that you were deceived. However, don't just run and take these things out. I mean, there's a prep phase. I mean, there's a proper way. You have to find a biological dentist. I can give one website for those looking. It's called the iaomt.org. iaomt.org.
Ben: And that's to find a biological dentist? I have one in Spokane. I switched two years ago to this guy named Craig Simmons of Spokane. That's who my kids go and see now, and there's no metals, and they clean the air, and they use, I guess, biocompatible compounds when they're cleaning your mouth. That type of stuff.
Dan: It's estimated, by the way, that 70 to 85% of all disease starts in the mouth. Silver fillings, root canals, something called a cavitation where they pull a filling, I'm sorry, they pull a tooth and a cavitation is left behind.
Dan: Well, look. You interview a lot of people talking about the gut and the microbiome. The microbiome starts in the mouth.
Dan: That good bacteria, good and bad, right? That's what makes up the microbiome. When that's not right, and everyone's trying to fix their gut, and by the way, the mouth doesn't respond to probiotics like the gut does. But when you have these fillings, root canals, all this going on in the mouth, it's basically impossible to have a normal microbiome.
Dan: 70, and I've said it, estimated 70 to 85% of all disease starts in the mouth.
Ben: That's crazy. So you could have bacterial dysbiosis and a bunch of gut issues, and it's because of what's going on in your mouth. Especially if you have like metal fillings and stuff like that.
Dan: Listen, when you have those silver fillings in, and we could go off on a whole show on this, but the root canals are destructive with anaerobic bacteria, but it's leeching into the gut, destroying that bacteria as well. Not to mention what's going directly into your nervous system.
Ben: It's crazy. So you detoxed?
Ben: What you do?
Dan: Once I realized, “Okay, this is the cause,” I'm one of those practitioners who believe the only true cures come from removing the sources, the causes, and then body does the healing, it really knows what to do. I think even alternative practitioners today, they're more interested in pushing a lot of different things instead of saying, “Wow. Why is somebody sick?” And dealing with the many clients from all over the world with different illnesses, unexplainable mostly, you realize that there is always a cause. Whether it's, in my case, mercury, other heavy metals, lead. I mean can go down the list, moldy homes, hidden infections from root canals, cavitations, hidden infections from lyme disease, these things are really the causative factor that when you remove them, the body can heal. So, yeah. I started knowing, number one, the rest of them have to come out safely. Number two, I realized it's in my brain. So what I teach today, a prep phase, preparing your cells and your body for detoxification, a body phase where we clear the body and then go after it in the brain. That's what I teach doctors all around the world.
Ben: Why do you clear the body first before the brain?
Dan: You set a concentration gradient. You wanna clear the body before going deeper because what happens is it'll start to move from higher concentration to lower concentration. I mean, simple science.
Ben: Almost like osmosis?
Dan: Yeah. No. Exactly. So, there is a process. I think when it comes to detox, I had to really do my homework. Like you, I'm one of those people who, I just don't take anything for granted, and we see these things marketed everywhere. “Oh, this detox thing…”
Ben: Yeah. That's what actually I wanted to ask you about is what, you see everything from, whatever, the maple syrup, cayenne pepper detox, and the cabbage soup diet, and all these different detoxification protocols out there, especially for stuff like metal, or mold, or fungi. What are some of the biggest errors that these other detoxification protocols are making?
Dan: You know, that's a great question. I wrote a three part article called “When Detox Is Dangerous” and in the article I gave some analogies. Like you go down the street and you see these street cleaners, right? We've all seen them. Our tax Dollars are joyfully paying for. And we see this big cloud around this thing, and dust…
Ben: These are one of the big trucks with the brushes?
Dan: Yeah. Those. I'm like, “Do those even exist?” They still exist! But we all question, when we look at what's behind them and flying off of them, what they really actually do. Well, that's analogous to most of these herbal detoxes or just detox concoctions, if you will. You mentioned a few of them that people take that really have weak binders associated with them, and most often they do just what that street cleaner did. It just kinda stirs it up. The problem is this: like those things that you see flying off this machine, they end up in other places. So every car that's parked on the side ends up with this layer of dust all over the street cleaner. But the problem is that it mobilizes surface toxins, but they mobilize it and they end up crossing potentially into the brain, crossing the blood-brain barrier, and people ultimately become worse.
Here's another mistake. When you're dealing with truly unloading the brain long term, you have to remove these sources from your life. I mean you can't just say, “I'm gonna start getting metal out of my brain,” when you still have the fillings in. But, okay, the point though is this: people, if you walk into every health food store on the planet, there's the 10 day cleanse, there's this cleanse, there's that cleanse. I have nothing against them, but when it comes to really, these toxins that we just talked about, the molds, the metals, the lyme, these hidden infections, it doesn't do anything really.
Ben: So we're not just talking about metals? We're talking about when you're doing these cleanse, we're talking about pesticides that could be on fruits and vegetables you've eaten over the years, mold, fungi, toxins that fat cells have accumulated, pharmaceutical compounds, anytime you're doing a cleanse and it doesn't have some kind of a strong binding agent in it. What you're saying is you're just stirring up everything, and then redistributing it to other tissues, including the brain?
Dan: Absolutely. You know, I get calls from people all over the world. I hear every story and one often that I hear, that I experienced myself, you start doing research on metal and when I realized it was in my brain, I juice have some chlorella. Very healthy.
Dan: Chlorella. Very healthy, right? And thought, “Hey, this is…” I'm sorry. Cilantro. I juice cilantro. And I juiced it.
Ben: I take both of those, cilantro and chlorella.
Dan: It's very healthy, and if you're not massively riddled with heavy metals, it'd probably be okay.
Ben: I should say I take them, like I eat, the foods.
Dan: And chlorella is a food, right? And if you get a clean one, which is often the challenge, I mean it can act as a mild binder, but it's not a true binder. People that are very toxic, they get sick from those things. But, cilantro, you'll hear it's the brain detoxer of metal.
Ben: Yeah. Even the liver too.
Dan: Well, it crosses blood-brain barrier. Yeah. Absolutely. And the problem though is it's a week bind, so it mobilizes metal. And I juice this stuff, and literally my wife thought she was gonna have to check me into an insane asylum. I mean, I never hopped on the psychotropic drug because of my philosophy, but many of these people do because you end up being told you're crazy and you just feel crazy. And frankly I was crazy, looking back, but the cilantro made me more crazy. You need true binders. Things that are able to bind something as heavy as a heavy metal that is difficult to remove and could bring it completely out of the body. And that's lesson number one.
Ben: Got it. So when it comes to a lot of these detoxification-type of compounds, I know that there are things that can bind up tissues. One that I've heard a lot about is zeolite. You can get zeolite liquids, and zeolite minerals, and stuff like that. I know that you know a little bit about zeolite. So can you fill me in on that, for example? Like is zeolite something that would be like a binder? How does that one work?
Dan: Well, zeolite is a true binder. When we talk about these agents that have the ability to grab on to these nasty toxins that we're talking about, zeolite is a true binder. The problem is, they use it for pesticide cleanup, they use it for cleaning up anything in the environment. For hundreds of years, they use zeolite. The problem is it's a particle.
Ben: The problem is it's a what?
Dan: A particle. So most of the first zeolite products where these powders that do a great job of binding in the gut. But, you'll hear me say this and this is what I advocate even doctors on, is real detox has to get to the cell. And my mantra is “you won't get well until you fix the cell,” and for our conversation, you won't get well until you detox the cell. So real detox must occur at the cellular level. So, we'll get there so people understand what I mean, but, by the way, that's why people don't feel well today. That's why your hormones are disrupted. This is a cellular issue. So if we don't fix the cell, we're not gonna fix hormone problems.
Ben: When you say it's a cellular issue, are you saying that the metals wind up inside the cell?
Dan: Toxins end up in the cell.
Ben: Or toxins, or pesticides, or whatever?
Dan: Absolutely. They disrupt mitochondria inside the cell.
Ben: So they actually cross through the cell membrane.
Ben: And they disrupt mitochondrial activity once they get past the cell membrane.
Dan: There's something in a cell, and I think you've talked about in some of your shows, called glutathione and SOD, and these natural thing that are in every cell, every pathway to deal with these things.
Ben: Right. To crunch free radicals and produce anti-oxidants.
Dan: However, these toxins are so nasty. They deplete these natural detoxifiers, if you will, in the cell so rapidly that your cells now are left defenseless, and by the way, then the toxins start changing your gene expression. Now you start expressing conditions that you're going, “What? Why can't I lose weight?”
Ben: So they can act on the cell nucleus and change gene expression?
Dan: It does. And it shuts down your cell energy production. That's why one of the first signs…
Ben: Is this stuff, and I know people are probably wondering as well, is this stuff that people who are into detoxification just say as a scare tactic? Or is there actual research that shows that there's just stuff inside cells?
Dan: There's so much research. You know, the frustrating part is there is right now a gap in what's happening in science and what's happening in the treatment world. Meaning that we know these toxins are entering the cell, we know that most of these conditions are epigenetic, that they're getting turned on. The old dogma was, “Hey, you have a thyroid condition because your mom did.” No, no. You have a thyroid condition because you have a susceptibility like your mom, but it's been turned on. So just because, years ago there was, Time magazine had the article “Your DNA Is Not Your Destiny.” And I've had the pleasure of interviewing Bruce Lipton, who you know, and he was one of the first brilliant stem cell biologists that said, “Look. Our DNA is not our destiny. Matter of fact, even our thought we can change these things.”
Ben: Did he write “The Biology of Belief”?
Dan: Biology of Belief, which is probably sitting right over there.
Ben: I'm halfway through that book right now on my Kindle, 'cause I was thinking about that right now. Like in that book, I'm in the part in the book right now where he's talking about like the phospholipid layer of the cell.
Ben: And he's also talking about how it can even go as deep as, you can almost like believe yourself into, as the title of the book would imply, susceptibility to the disease that you're genetically programmed to be susceptible to.
Dan: Your thoughts literally can change your DNA for better or for worse, and he showed that. But he shows that it is, you've mentioned the cell membrane, Ben, I teach something to my doctors, and it really caught on even with the public. It's my five R's of how to fix a cell. Five R's of cellular healing and the five R's of how to detox a cell. I had said real detox has to occur at the cell. When you talk to scientists, they get that the cell has the ability and needs the ability to detox day in, day out. Even from the own energy that it makes. If we burned logs in this room, if we don't have a chimney, we're dead. The smoke alone from making energy, well, no different in your cell. The cell has these functions that has to get rid of the toxins from its own energy production, let alone what bombards the cell day in, day out.
Ben: But the cell has the ability to do that naturally, right?
Dan: That's the point I'm making. So here's the point: true detox is upregulating these natural cell functions, whether it's methylation. So my five R's does that. Number one is remove the source. Number two is regenerating the cell membrane, and that's what we were talking about, that phospholipid membrane that Bruce talks about. Critical. If you can't fix that cell membrane, you won't get the good stuff in and the good stuff out. So these people eating a perfect diet, taking the supplements, no, no, no. You have to fix that membrane. And Lipton's work showed that when you fix the membrane, now you can change that genetic expression. So my R number two is regenerating the cell membrane, the outer membrane and the mitochondrial membrane.
R three, I'll just rip through them. R three is restoring cellular energy. Cell energy, once it gets depleted, you can't control inflammation at the cell anymore. Once cell energy gets depleted to a certain point, now the cell just is a sitting duck for oxidative stress and more toxicity. So you need the energy to upregulate detox pathways. R number four is reducing inflammation and oxidative stress. Sounds like the obvious, but there's specific things that we need to do to downregulate that cellular inflammation because its natural pathways are damaged. And finally, R five is reestablishing methylation. Methylation is very popular today. We've heard about the different genes, the MTHFR gene that people, 15% of the population have that need special folic acid that enters the cell if they…
Ben: Right. They need to take methyltetrahydrofolate supplements, stuff like that.
Dan: Exactly. But again, the gene doesn't make you sick. It does leave you a little bit more predisposed, especially with other toxins and stressors. Methylation runs parallel to glutathione. If your methylation starts to drop, so does your glutathione. So the bottom line is this: these five R's are a roadmap to what we need to do in a world that's being bombarded with neurotoxins. If you don't upregulate the cell functions, it's not real detox. So I have nothing against a colon cleanse. However, a colon cleanse is not affecting the cell. I have nothing against the liver cleanse, the 10 day juice cleanse, or whatever it is, but you have to get to the cell. That's how I got my life back. This is how thousands get their lives back.
Ben: That makes sense. Okay. So you actually did these five R's on yourself as you went through your own detoxification process?
Dan: I learned them through the pain. Yeah. Through my research.
Ben: So, obviously, you've written a ton of articles on this and we could be on here for hours just talking about those five R's, but a few like kinda rapid fire questions just for people to wrap their heads around this. ‘Cause I know if I'm wondering about it, people out there are also wondering about it.
Ben: So our number one was what again?
Dan: Remove the sources.
Ben: Okay. So remove the sources. That's pretty straightforward. We get rid of a lot of these toxins and metals in our life. Then you said R number two was the membrane.
Dan: Yep. Regenerating the membrane.
Ben: Like fix the cell. What's an example of a way that you regenerate a membrane?
Dan: You know, this is a great question. A lot of people today are into fish oil, and I am too. It's a very important fat, right? For the first time in history however, we're seeing something in the healthy population, maybe a lot of your listeners. We're seeing something called omega-3 dominance where most of the population is omega-6 dominant from eating all the grain-fed animal products, the corn, et cetera, all the vegetable oils, corn oil which will make you omega-6 dominant. So when people start taking fish oil, they feel better. It down regulates inflammation. However, we can go overboard to where we're now going omega-3 dominant. Literally.
Ben: I'm listening very intently because I look at a lot of WellnessFX blood panels, including my own.
Ben: I slap myself on the back and congratulate myself 'cause my omega-3 fatty acids are so high. You're saying that they can be too high?
Dan: Absolutely. Yeah. Out of Johns Hopkins there was a study done showing omega-3 dominance, and we see it more in people who, if you talk to most people, they're taking a probiotic of fish oil which, taking just the probiotic every day, the same one can be problematic. But the fish oil, because it's out of context of what's in a fish, there's other fats that stabilize, other antioxidants that put things in balance. It can throw people out of balance. And again, I'm not against fish oil. I'm against throwing yourself out of balance. But to answer your question, a 4:1 ratio of omega-6 to 3, which is one of the ratios we see in nature, targets the cell membrane.
Ben: So more omega-6 than omega-3?
Dan: Yeah, but that's normal. The population is like 19:1. That's abnormal, too much 6.
Ben: Okay. 19 parts omega-6 to 1 part omega-3 cause they're even included in vegetable oils, and seed, and nuts, and [0:43:01] _____, and fat, and stuff.
Dan: Absolutely. Grain-fed meat. Now in nature, we see 1:1 to 1:6 in different foods. So we know that that's a normal range, but what studies do show is different ratios can benefit different things. So now we're learning that it's not just fat, it's duplicating what's in nature, which you're a big believer in, to realize different ratios have different purposes. We target the 4:1 ratio. We target certain fats that many of your listeners, well not your listeners, but would think are bad. Saturated fats, cholesterols, they stabilize the cell membrane. Lipton pointed it out in his book that it's these stabilizing fats that people are avoiding today. And again, Time Magazine had an article with the butter, right? “Is Butter Bad?”
Ben: Like showing fats that are solid at room temperature, like a coconut oil.
Dan: Right. They actually have a stabilizing effect on the membrane. But you know, there's a few things. You have to avoid those vegetable oils, which are in everything, even Whole Foods and other health food stores products, right? Canola oil, et cetera. They destabilize the membrane. We want to avoid, obviously, bringing in more toxins because they stick to the membrane, drive more inflammation. We want to control glucose and insulin, which is a topic that you love and so do I. Instant inflammation destabilizing the membrane. So we have to do those three things at least to stabilize them.
Ben: Okay. Gotcha. So an example of regenerating the cell membrane would be eating healthy saturated fats?
Ben: Okay. What was number three?
Dan: Fats are important. The membrane's made of fat.
Ben: Yeah. It's like a lipid bilayer, right?
Dan: Getting rid of the bad fats, right? Controlling glucose and insulin.
Ben: Yeah. That's why it's always a red flag when your cholesterol's too low, right?
Dan: That's right. Yeah. And more people die, there's a higher morbidity for normal low cholesterol than high. People don't realize that.
Ben: Yeah. I try to keep my cholesterol above 200.
Dan: Yeah. Me too.
Ben: Okay. So we've got keeping the cholesterol high, eating good healthy fats, getting rid of the source. Three was?
Dan: Yeah. Getting the bad fats out.
Ben: What was our number three?
Dan: Oh. R number three. Sorry. Restoring cellular energy.
Ben: Okay. What's an example of that?
Dan: Yeah. There's a lot of products that you talk about that do it naturally, but when we look at the topic of cellular energy, it really is a bombardment of mitochondrial issues today. Toxins, the mitochondrial membrane, by the way, the mitochondria's where you make ATP. It's the powerhouse of your cell. Athletes have more mitochondria per cell. Sick people have less. Average people have average. So the mitochondria is where you produce energy. Toxins are bombarding it. That's why we're seeing so much low energy, brain fog, and a lot of conditions that do not respond to even the perfect nutrition because the mitochondria is just attacked. So the mitochondrial membrane is something where a lot of the organ fats actually make a better difference, or something cardiolipin. It's a fat that is in the mitochondrial membrane that's very fragile, that does better with a lot of the fats that are organ meats.
Ben: So you're talking about using liver. We were talking yesterday about when I do an order from US Wellness Meats every quarter, it sounds nasty, but head cheese, liver, and kidney, and heart, and another one called braunschweiger which is a mix of organ meats.
Dan: Yep. Absolutely.
Ben: But they make pills too for people who don't want to do that type of thing.
Ben: Like liver pills. What about vegans or vegetarians who want to improve cellular energy? Do they have options?
Dan: Yeah. No. I mean, of course. I mean, look, improving cellular energy, I think we can go right back to the basics. People that have insulin glucose spikes have major issues with cellular energy, but this is a favorite topic of mine is when we control glucose and insulin, when we get ourselves to be more efficient fat burners, then we both know this and probably most of your listeners, the cells can only use two things for energy: fat or sugar. Glucose or fat. Most Americans are stuck as sugar burners with the inability to efficiently use fat for energy. One of the strategies that I teach to get the cell more efficient at becoming a fat burner is intermittent fasting. Times where you're not eating. Then the cell starts to learn that it has to burn fat.
Dan: Does it work for people right away? The answer is oftentimes “No” because the body's still not efficient at becoming a fat burner. But we do certain strategies, I teach certain strategies that help the cell, the mitochondria utilize fat for energy.
Ben: Okay. That makes sense. Any of those things that we hear when we talk about becoming a fat burning machine, like intermittent fasting, fasted cardio sessions. I talked with Dr. David Minkoff, and I did a podcast episode about the metabolic theory of cancer and taking care of mitochondria with even things like freaking like hyperbaric oxygen, and deep breathing, and all sorts of strategies. But what you're saying is that that, combined with keeping the cholesterol evaded and good amount of fat intake, removing toxins, the source, that knocks R one, R two, R three. R four was what?
Dan: Yeah. R four is reducing inflammation, oxidative stress. So you really can apply to that as well, right? Yeah. I mean you look over right there on the floor, from Thomas Seyfried, “Cancer Is A Metabolic Disease” showing that cancer really is a metabolic issue, the cell's inability to use fat. So he talks a lot about fasting and ketosis, forcing the cell to burn fat. These are ancient healing strategies, and I would love to come back on and do a show on my diet variation and talk about some of that. But forcing the cell to use fat for energy is what's missing today. So many people have lost the ability to utilize fat for energy and that's a mitochondrial problem. That's a toxic issue.
Ben: We were talking the other day on the TV show Naked and Afraid.
Dan: Yeah. I would just fast for 21 days.
Ben: Like the Dr. Pompa episode would be the most boring episode ever 'cause you'd be laying on the beach…
Dan: No problem. I can go…
Ben: “Hey. I'm on ketosis.”
Dan: I interviewed two of my doctors who fasted. One of them fasted for over 30 days and the other fasted, folks, I'm talking about just water, fasted for 22 days. One made the comment, “You know, I was up. I only needed like three, four hours of sleep. I had so much energy.” My wife comes downstairs, and he's like repainting the house 'cause he had so much energy. Now when someone's fasting, I recommend just take it easy. But he literally energized. My daughter said that, right?
Dan: Days two and three, she was like feeling you know not so good. By day four, she's like, “I have all the energy in the world. I feel amazing.”
Ben: I walked through the house yesterday, she was bouncing around. And she was, what, five days into her fast?
Dan: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, anyways. I have these ancient healing strategies, they really help fix the cell as well as, obviously we target it with certain supplementation that we're talking about, but toxins really are driving the epidemic of why the cell's not functioning, why people don't feel, why their hormones aren't regulated.
Ben: And then number five was what?
Dan: Reestablishing methylation, and that's really, when you think of methylation, think of folate, think of B12. These are products that help the process of methylation. And if you have the methyltetrahydrofolate gene, that’s an active form of methylation which is called methyltetrahydrofolate.
Ben: Yeah. I take the Thorne Multivitamin. That has methlytetrahydrofolate form in it. You just wanna look at a multivitamin, if you're taking something like that, to make sure it's not folic acid, right? That it's the MTHFR.
Dan: Yes. Exactly.
Ben: What about foods? Are there foods?
Dan: Absolutely. I mean of course, your vegetables, the green leafy vegetables are fantastic. And of course grass-fed meat too because of the B12. I mean, so getting a variety of all these healthy foods is obviously very important. Here's what people don't anticipate is you could say, “Well I've methyl depleted,” and by the way, one of the things that people that have a lot of anxiety, stress, those are oftentimes are methyl depleted people. But they say “I eat those things. Well, why do I still have an issue?” Any type of stress, physical, chemical, or emotional will deplete you of methylation. That's an epidemic today. So I like to call it the epidemic within the epidemic.
People are neurotoxic, depleting methylation, and just very quickly, and we'll talk about some solutions on the toxic end here in a second, but my wife was lead toxic. She got it from her mother. And she was heading down the same hormonal road as her mother, who ended up dying of uterine cancer. She, 10 years before, had breast cancer, got the normal treatments, they said she was a survivor. Never dealt with the issue directly of her hormone imbalance and was causing it, which was her lead. She was majorly methyl depleted. So my wife's hormone test, we looked at it and said, “My gosh. The same thing's happening.” She was massively methyl depleted despite eating perfect and doing all these things. Well, it was until I tested her lead and realized her lead was off the chart. That's what was depleting her methylation. Her mother never got to that cause, my wife did. Her methylation ultimately improved, despite taking high levels of these vitamins without improving it on the test by getting rid of the lead.
Ben: So these things all kind of track together. Like, if for example, you're taking methyltetrahydrofolate, but your cholesterol is really low 'cause you're eating a low fat diet, say, and you're not one of those few people who have the APOE44 gene, who maybe would do better on a lower fat diet, then you're still gonna have issues. Or if you say, are taking methyltetrahydrofolate and eating lots of coconut oil, but you still have some source of lead or mercury vaporizing in your mouth, you're still gonna feel crappy?
Dan: That's the point. Yeah. It will constantly drive silent inflammation, oxidize that membrane that we know is so important. It will constantly deplete your methylation. It will constantly drive, yes, that's the point. Toxins today are really why people don't feel, or why people are performing at the level they want to, why people can't even lose weight. It's driving cellular dysfunction. Weight loss resistance is an epidemic. The key is you have to fix the cell to get well. These are cellular issues. This is an epidemic, and rarely do we have practitioners even on the alternative side addressing this true cause of why people aren't doing well today.
Ben: Okay. So we got into the five R's. We kinda rabbit holed down the five R's because we were talking about how stuff accumulates in the cell, and you said that you gotta do cellular detoxification. Not just detoxification, but you gotta get into the cell membrane. We were talking about zeolite.
Dan: Yeah. We kinda went off on that.
Ben: Yeah. Is zeolite one of those things that can actually cross the cellular membrane?
Dan: Yeah. And when I left that point, I made a point that it's a particle. And for years, it's been used in the environment for clean-up. So we know it's a true binder. But the challenge has been getting it past the gut. Now, years ago, they brought me these liquid zeolites, and we tested them, and we didn't get the result we were looking for.
Ben: What do you mean? Who brought you?
Dan: Just people. Random people.
Ben: Chiro people bring you stuff to test it?
Dan: Not just 'cause I was a chiro. Because this is my area, detox. And once I got my life back, it threw me into this whole area. Now this is what I teach. But we really didn't find any validity to the product. After looking at it closer, it was still a particle. It was more of a suspension in a liquid. Matter of fact, if you let these products sit on your shelf, you would see this film at the bottom. Well that was the zeolite settling out. Point being, still too large really to make a difference. Now, in the advertising ours is nano, ours is small enough. It still didn't get into the cell. It wasn't until a few years ago that a brilliant scientist from Greece, Nikolas Tsirikos. These Greek names.
Ben: Sounds Greek.
Dan: Tsirikos. Brilliant guy. I mean, it has a…
Ben: Nikolas with a K if he was Greek, right?
Dan: Yeah. Exactly. He has actually like two last names, I didn't write the other one.
Ben: And a unibrow?
Dan: And a unibrow. Of course. Yeah. Sorry, Nikolas. But the guy's brilliant. He won many awards in cardiovascular surgery, develop something called the flow meter. I mean, brilliant. So this guy brings me this product, not Nikolas at this time, and he starts telling me about it. And I was really disappointed because he said, “Wow. That's pretty impressive.” And then he said it was a liquid zeolite. I said, “Oh, darn.” He said, “No, no, no. This is different. He hydrolyzed it. He made it. He changed the molecular weight.” It's not just size, 'cause that's immediately what I brought up. And he says, “No, no. He hydrolyzed it, he made it different. You have to talk to him.” I spoke to him, and he started at Mayo end up at Cleveland, and Cleveland Clinic, and right outside Cleveland Clinic I went to see his lab and saw what he was doing. And I became a believer, and then we tested it within a small group of 30 of our doctors. And so the clinical outcomes have been just spectacular. Of course, now we're using it, the thousands of us.
Ben: Alright. So help me understand this. You're hydrolyzing zeolites. So zeolite would normally be like a mineral. And what happens when you hydrolyze the mineral?
Dan: Yeah. I mean, you're able to, I love when he gives the example of a building, right. You think about like a skyscraper. That's a zeolite particle, right? And then you could start breaking this particle down to where it now is in different pieces, smaller, and smaller, and smaller. We live in a three dimensional world. So it doesn't just cross the membrane by size, and that's where people are deceived by a lot of these other products. The molecular weight, something has to be between two hundred, and I'll just round it down, 200 and 600 molecular weight for it to cross the membrane.
Ben: Okay. And that's measured in Daltons, right?
Dan: It is. So when you look at it, and something has…
Ben: See? I remember something from college.
Dan: Yeah. Right. Exactly. So that's actually the key. If you notice how these products are measured, if you don't see the Dalton there, then you're not going to have something that crosses in. It would be measured in something like nano, which is size. Size matters. Size matters. However, the also the molecular weight matters. And so that is the magic that he did. And now, this new zeolite not only crosses into the cell, but it also even crosses into the brain. So that's groundbreaking because if we're able to cross into the cell, if we're able to upregulate cell function, now we have something that's unique and different.
Ben: Okay. So once the zeolite is put into a form where it's small enough, where you hydrolize it and it can cross in the cell, and it can cross the blood-brain barrier, what's it doing once it gets in there?
Dan: Now you have to have a true binder, right. You have to have…
Ben: Yeah. ‘Cause that's what you were talking earlier, how if you have a weak binder, like you were talking about cilantro, then you're just spreading stuff around.
Dan: Absolutely. You know, even glutathione, actually I'm a big fan, and part of what I teach is raising intracellular glutathione. When I was sick, I did a lot of injection of glutathione, putting pure glutathione right into my bloodstream. But you have to understand, taking glutathione doesn't go into the cell. But glutathione, it's not a really strong bond. So when I would take these glutathione injections, I would literally stir things up and it would create the crazies. So glutathione's part of the process, but you need these true binders to deal with these types of toxins that are very difficult for even your body's natural defense against toxins, likely glutathione, to bring completely out of the body. So it is very important to utilize a true, true binder that enters the cell. Some of the particles can stay outside the cell and even clean up, but that's the magic. You need that. You have to upregulate cell function, but you need a true binder to make sure it's all the way out of the body.
Ben: So if you hydrolyze zeolite and make it small enough, does it bind? Like can it bind these things like pesticides from…
Dan: It has the ability. It's a true binder. And so now we have something that we know binds, even in nature to pesticides, heavy metals. They use it. Scientifically proven to bind these things. Now we can get them in the cell, in the body to make that much of a difference in the tissue to where the toxins actually are.
Ben: Okay. Once the zeolite is in the cell and it's bound something, how does it get out? Like what happens?
Dan: The neat thing is is that once it becomes this bigger particle attaches to it, the body starts to move things out, and then it goes through the bloodstream, out of the body, and it's very easily removed because the body doesn't like things like that, big things. By the way, that's how our body removes toxins. It binds things to them to become something different, even in the liver. Conjugation occurs where it takes a toxin, binds something else to it, and then the body says, “Okay. Great.” And then it removes it from the body.
Ben: So if you we're using something like this hydrolyzed zeolite, would you have to drink way more water to actually flush out the body?
Dan: Yeah. It's always advisable to drink more water. Absolutely. But the body gets rid of it. It does. Once it's attached. Look, for years we've used true chelators and binders, one called DMSA, one called DMPS, and another called EDTA. Look, we know those are true binders.
Ben: Those are like things that you would take prior to doing one of those metal challenge tests that we were talking about, right?
Dan: That's true. Because they're water, DMSA or DMPS are water soluble. They're in you and out of you very quickly. But, by the way, that's the problem, is that IV chelation can be very very dangerous. It works great in acute situations. So if you have an acute poisoning, get an IV. It grabs and gets out of the body very quickly, it attaches this molecule to it. However, in chronic poisoning, these water solubles, they grab, they pull a bunch away from, throughout the body, throughout extracellular, we say, and pull it out of the body. But the problem is this: it goes away, the binding agent, then the metals start to redistribute. Even start to come across concentration gradient. So for those types of things to be safe, you have to take them often enough every four hours, every eight hours, each one has a different half-life, and you have to take them for as many days as, say, four to seven days. So when you do stop, it minimizes what redistributes. So point is: two sides of the aisle. Imagine this, you have people over here with herbal weak binders, you have the allopathic group over here with true binders that have the ability to grab, but they're giving them an IV, utilizing them incorrectly. Both end up disastrous.
Dan: Hence the article that I wrote, “When Detox Becomes Dangerous.” So there is this middle ground of using a true binder, but using it correctly, and one that actually has the ability to actually go into the cell and make a difference. ‘Cause that's where the epidemic is. You know, the epidemic isn't just the 10 day cleanse or the colon cleanse, and again I have nothing against any of those things. We have to get to the cell if we're going to make an impact on why people don't feel well. But even beyond that, it's not even about feeling well. Ultimate performance, giving your cells the function the way God intended them to function.
Dan: We have to get to the cell to make that impact in performance, function, brain fog, whatever it is.
Ben: Yeah. The last time that I was here, I was doing another Train to Hunt competition, and you had mentioned this concept of hydrolized zeolite as being a binder, and you gave me this little bottle. It was, I'm looking at the label…
Ben: Clinoptilolite zeolite. So that's like the really small hydrolyzed version of zeolite?
Dan: Not all versions of zeolite are created equal.
Ben: Okay. Clinoptilolite zeolite. This stuff's called Cyto Detox.
Dan: Correct. Cyto meaning cell.
Ben: Yeah. You gave that to me and I took it, I did, I think you told me 10 drops morning, 10 drops evening.
Ben: I did that, and I think I texted you like three days in.
Dan: You did.
Ben: I felt like crap.
Ben: Like I was napping like three hours, I was having these huge dumps. It was Bad News Bears. What was going on there? Is that normal?
Dan: It works. It's a real product, right. I said, what did I say, cut your dose down.
Ben: And I'm not a super toxic guy.
Dan: No, no. But you know what, here's the thing though, your body works well, your cells work well. So it went right after some things that you really have never addressed, and that's most likely heavy metals. And it grabbed it and started bringing it out. I said just cut your dose down, and then you did, and you said, “Okay, I felt better.” So, yeah. It grabbed on to some metals and started pulling it out, and your body started letting go of others. The product works.
Ben: Now you said before, like 30 days, too short. Three months, too short. That most people, 'cause they've built up metals, and pesticides, and toxins, and I did, I think we were talking about this the other day, I did grow up on Big Macs, and pizza, iceberg lettuce, and lots of pesticide and herbicide-laden produce, and I still have two of those bottles of this Cyto Detox. How long would somebody need to actually use this stuff to truly clean out their bodies?
Dan: When you get it, you could take it literally for a month straight. But after that, I tell people seven days on, seven days off. I would say the average person needs six months just to remove enough heavy metal to where you literally go, “Yeah. My gosh, I can think clear again.” And by the way, we didn't talk about the positive effect. That's what people go, they go, “My gosh. I can think more clearly.” Because it's able to cross into the brain, it's able to get to these toxins at the cellular where, literally, it affects the way we think. Driving inflammation of our brain and our brain cells. But, I mean that's it. Six months on average if you have any type of health challenge. Two years, on and off cycle, on and off cycle of using it. Your body will detox in phases.
Ben: Why do you need to cycle?
Dan: Any type of detox I like to cycle because you wanna rest your natural pathways. You wanna rest your cells. You wanna not challenge your body. I believe all detox, even in nature, happens in cycles. A woman's period is a detox. It's happens monthly. So when you look at nature, even the way the Earth cleans itself, it's always done in cycles. Always. So we're basically just duplicating what we see.
Ben: What do you mean the way the Earth cleans itself?
Dan: If you look at the ecosystem of a lake, a river, things happen in cycles. Even how algaes redistribute, the microbiome changes.
Ben: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Dan: So I mean all the detox in nature is cycled. So therefore, we just duplicate what we see in nature. We want to cycle. And by the way, not only does it rest the pathways, but on the off cycle, you're allowing things to move from higher concentration to lower concentration, resettle out, and then you start to clear again.
Ben: Has there ever actually been any studies on what happens when you take this stuff? Like whether it can damage or…
Dan: Yeah. There are. It's amazing the studies that are out there on using these clinoptilolite particles for multiple conditions, for lead poisoning, et cetera. But, yes. The studies are out there and, right now, we're excited because we're doing new studies with this new hydrolyzed form.
Ben: I'm looking on your website right now. What's this PAMPA…
Dan: Yeah. The PAMPA, actually this is the only product of its kind, the only detox product on the planet right now that's ever been proven by that PAMPA study. By the way, that is the way to show that something crosses into the cell, in and out of the cell.
Ben: Parallel artificial membrane permeability assay. What is that?
Dan: Yeah, PAMPA. Don't get confused with my last name, which is Pompa.
Ben: Yeah. I was gonna say it's close to your last name.
Dan: Yeah. No. It is the scientific way to prove that something moves in and out of membranes, it crosses the membranes, even into the blood-brain barrier. So this is the only detox product with that ability to make that claim.
Ben: So they've tested it, they've used this PAMPA analysis to see if it actually does move in and out of a lipid cell membrane?
Dan: Yes. Which is, again, the only product that can make the claim because it's the only product…
Ben: And a normal zeolite's just too big?
Dan: Right. Even the liquid ones, they're too big, or heavy is a better word. Molecular weight is too much.
Ben: Okay. So there's this Cyto Detox stuff, is that the primary source where someone actually can get clinoptilolite?
Ben: I'm getting that word down. Zeolite?
Ben: Okay. How did that stuff get developed? I mean, did this doctor give it to you and then you came up with a name for it? Or you put it in a bottle? What exactly happened after this Nikolas guy?
Dan: Yeah. So he contacted us knowing that I have a group of doctors, knowing that cellular detox is my forte, and they got in touch with me. And of course, I had to see some of the research and I had to use it clinically. So we took it and utilized it with 20, 30 actually, about 30 doctors clinically. And we saw unbelievable results that we hadn't seen in years. So what took me years to get the metals out of my brain, we're seeing the results much faster now because we have a tool that we didn't have.
Ben: Right. So you could detox the gut, you could detox tissues, you could, like I'll do like a niacin and infrared sauna to lipolize fat cells, but what you're saying is if you really wanna get into the cell, you have to use this tiny, tiny little particle if you truly want to detox through a cellular membrane?
Ben: But can you combine it with some of those other things like glutathione? Like the liver cleanse, or cilantro smoothies, or me doing the sauna?
Dan: That's what I was just gonna say, yeah.
Ben: Can you do all that at once?
Dan: Absolutely. Yeah. And I would recommend. I do. I would recommend it.
Ben: Just stay away from like this DMSO stuff that you talked about?
Dan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Ben: Cilantro, chlorella, you should do this first?
Dan: Absolutely. And I don't have a problem with chlorella. I mean, it's just not a weak bind for metals that's gonna cross into the cell. It's just a different type of binder. It's more in the category of a weaker binder. It doesn't make it bad. It's just that you have to understand that it's not a true binder, that it's gonna grab this toxin, not let it go, and bring it all the way out. So I'm a believer in clean chlorella and different things, but marketing it as a true binder…
Ben: I saw the Recovery Bits out in the kitchen counter.
Dan: Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Yeah.
Ben: You've got the organic cracked cell wall chlorella. It's good stuff.
Dan: Spirulina, but it's not a true binder that people that have true heavy metal issues, they'll take it say, “It didn't help.” It's a different function.
Ben: And it was weird. Like after three days, and you told me to decrease the dosage, and I don't think I told you this, but I didn't. I stayed with 10 in the morning and 10 in the evening.
Dan: Yeah. ‘Cause you're like me.
Ben: But I just want to get it out. And then I started to feel really, really good. And I actually, next week I'm going back home and doing a urine test to see if it actually decreased any levels of metals in my body, 'cause I had some mercury, some lead, some manganese, and some other things.
Dan: And in you, I predict it will. However, what we do see is, I said that lead is stored in the bone, a lot of the mercury's stored in the brain and other deep tissues, but oftentimes we'll see people, their test rise up, and then come down. And the reason is because it's trying to move it from the deeper tissues.
Ben: The metals go up and then go down.
Dan: Yeah. But oftentimes, they actually feel better. They say, “Yeah, I feel better. Why is my lead higher?” Well, it's because it's getting out of that deeper tissue. So oftentimes we see it rise up before, then it starts to drop down again. But it's a true binder. It works. You're going to see it change.
Ben: Okay. So I'm taking furious notes here, and if you guys go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/pompa, that's bengreenfieldfitness.com/P-O-M-P-A, I'm linking to some of these books that we talked about, like “The Biology of Belief” that I'm reading right now, and then this “Cancer Is A Metabolic Disease,” and some of this information like the smoking tooth video and mercury dental fillings. But then, as far as this side Cyto Detox stuff goes, C-Y-T-O Detox, you've got a website here that people can go to, I'm going to link to that and show notes too, but it's bengreenfieldfitness.com/C-Y-T-O. And that little bottle that's on that website, that's just that clinoptilolite zeolite, that's it? Nothing else.
Dan: That's it. Pure as that.
Ben: You do the drops in the morning, the drops in the evening, and there's also a book on that site. What's the book that people get?
Dan: Yeah. It's part of what we put out when we put out something called The True Cell Detox, and it really helps with the dietary changes that are going to help your detox pathway. Some of the things we said, “Hey, this is great to combine it with.” You know, not just doing the drops itself. So that'll give you some pointers there. It's very good. It's a lot of great information, even recipes. Very helpful.
Ben: So people could get this Cyto Detox, they get the e-book.
Ben: Is the e-book like a certain period of days that you follow the diet or is it just general…?
Dan: There's some general and more specifics in the book. So I think it'll be a really helpful resource for people to understand that, again, when we're looking at cellular detox, we want to upregulate self-function as a part of the detox as well.
Ben: Does it have some of that diet variation stuff that you talked about?
Dan: I don't know if that is in there. I don't think that's in there. There's a program that I've put together now that practitioners are utilizing, it's called the True Cell Detox program. In that, I talked about the diet variation, which I would love to do a whole show on because it's perfect for your listeners.
Ben: If I didn't have to go to the Salt Lake City Airport now and actually fly home to see my family who I haven't seen in a week, we could do it now. But even right now, if you're listening in, you should check out this website. So it's bengreenfieldfitness.com/CYTO, and you can get a bottle of this Cyto Detox, 30 day money back guarantee if you wanna try it. I'll warn you, we should probably warn people, Dan, that might not feel amazing when they first start. ‘Cause I didn't.
Dan: Yeah. Exactly.
Ben: It took a few days, and now I feel really good. But you take this, and then your five R's, you've got that article as well on your site, if I wanna link to it?
Dan: Yeah. My website has the articles on there, and there's an article on there about True Cellular Detox as well. And like you, I even do Cellular Healing TV. There's all types of information.
Ben: Yeah. You've got a podcast too. So the five R's, I'll link to that as well on. So if you're listening in, go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/pompa, P-O-M-P-A, if you want the show notes for this episode, and then go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/cyto, that's bengreenfieldfitness.com/CYTO, and that's where you can get this little bottle, this little dropper bottle of that's this clinoptilolite zeolite. And if you've got pesticide exposure, metal exposure, anything like that and you want to use the detoxification protocol that Dr. Pompa has designed combined with these five R's that we went over today, really cool way to detoxify yourself the right way.
Dan: It's the real deal. Yeah. No, it's the real deal. We have practitioners, hundreds using it all over the country, changing lives with the product.
Ben: Yeah. And again, if you guys are listening in, Dr. Pompa practices what he preaches, hardcore mountain biker, kick my butt the past couple of days.
Dan: Yeah. While you came off of a…
Ben: Looks like a million bucks.
Dan: You came off a hard endurance, two days. That's for sure. Something that's harder than an Ironman, you told me.
Ben: Train to Hunt did beat me up a little bit. But regardless, I like guys who are actually out there not just creating products like this, but actually walking the walk and talking the talk, and Dr. Pompa's one of those guys. So if you guys haven't yet heard of Dr. Dan or tapped into some of his stuff, definitely check out the show notes. So bengreenfieldfitness.com/POMPA is where all the goodness is at, and then you can get the special offer with the free shipping, and the e-book, and everything at bengreenfieldfitness.com/CYTO. And, Dr. Dan…
Dan: Yeah, man.
Ben: I wanna thank you for coming on the show today.
Dan: Absolutely. It's my purpose, my pleasure, and suffered to even be here.
Ben: That was fun, man. Alright. Cool. Well, thanks for listening in folks. And I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Dan Pompa signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com. Go detoxify yourselves. Feel like a million bucks. Over and out.
You’ve been listening to the Ben Greenfield Fitness Show. Go to bengreenfieldfitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice.
In 1974, the World Health Organization stated that environmental toxins create approximately 84% of all chronic diseases. Over the past 40 years this number has increased dramatically…
…and as a matter of fact, an oft-neglected but serious issue called “cellular toxicity” is one of the major epidemics of our lifetimes, and remains an underlying cause of numerous health issues, including gut problems, thyroid issues, sluggish metabolism, brain fog and much more.
In today’s episode, you’re going to learn exactly why that is, what cellular toxicity is, what you can do about, and the most effective form of detoxification that you’ve probably never heard of.
My guest on today’s episode is Dr. Daniel Pompa, D.PSc., who is widely considered to be a global leader in the health and wellness industry. He travels all over the country educating practitioners and the public on the root causes of inflammation driven diseases such as Weight Loss Resistance, Hypothyroid, Diabetes, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Autoimmune Disorders and other chronic conditions.
…and I happened to have had the pleasure of hanging out at Dan’s house with him in Park City Utah during my TrainToHunt National Championships competition, and finding out everything I’ve always wanted to know about how to detox the body as effectively as possible.
Dan’s authority is rooted in his own personal battle. He has overcome serious neurotoxic illness and heavy metal poisoning, and he did that using the cellular detoxification strategies we talk about in this show. His methodology is rooted in self-experimentation, and runs very much counter to mainstream detox tactics.
During our discussion, you’ll discover:
-How Dr. Pompa developed extremely”toxic” cells despite being a seemingly healthy pro mountain biker and chiropractic physician…[9:30]
-The big, big problem with detoxifications such as cilantro, chlorella, juice cleanses, colonics and other popular detox methods…[30:00]
-Why the popular cleansing mineral zeolite is too big to cross a cell membrane, and what you can do about it…[34:05 & 53:55]
-Dr Pompa’s 5 “R’s” of fixing your cells for good, and how you can personally do each of these R’s…[37:35]
-Why you must detox your cell, and not just your tissue or your blood, and exactly how to detox your cells…[40:15]
–What happens if you mix popular detox methods, like fiber supplements or glutathione or n-acetyl cysteine or juicing, etc…[58:15]
–The tiny white bottle that Dr. Pompa gave me that made me feel like complete crap and call him on the phone three days later…[63:20]
-What you should feel like when you are detoxing, and how long you should actually detox for (you’ll be surprised at the answer)…[64:30]
-And much more!
Resources from this episode:
–Evidence Of Harm DVD about mercury dental fillings
–The “Smoking Tooth” video on YouTube
–Biology Of Belief book
–USWellnessMeats (Ben mentions braunschweiger and head cheese in this episode)
-Dr. Pompa’s article about detoxification mistakes