Could ONE Score Reveal How Fast You’re Aging? The Longevity Quotient & How a Former NFL Player Is Redefining The Standards of Longevity Medicine, With Jimmy St. Louis

Ben Greenfield: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of The Boundless Life Podcast,

Jimmy St. Louis: nobody had really defined the standard of care in the longevity space, but the consumer journey, in my perspective, is

Ben Greenfield: in this show I interview Agentis founder Jimmy St. Louis in Nashville, where I traveled to see some of the really cool things that he's rolling out at longevity clinics around the country. Great athlete, former NFL football player, cross-country athlete, CrossFit, competed pretty heavily in that, rowing, and his story is pretty inspiring.

Jimmy St. Louis: How do you change healthcare? How do you help advance healthier, happier lives, but do so by driving the standard of care, like truly defining that standard of care in longevity healthcare? When people hear that, they think, okay, tell me how you're doing that. What are the easiest, simplest solutions to help me embark on this journey?

Ben Greenfield: All the show notes are gonna be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/JimmyPodcast. Let's go. Welcome to The Boundless Life with me, your host Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond.

Ben Greenfield:I spent 20 years measuring and optimizing everything about my body, deep performance metrics, cold stress, heat stress, sleep scores, blood panels, peptide protocols, testosterone, telomeres, VO two max, you name it, and somewhere in the middle of building what looked like perfect life. I almost lost the life that I was building it for. Boundless, the man who became human, is a brand new feature documentary that follows what happened when the optimization framework that I spent two decades constructing ran headlong into the things that metrics could never measure, my marriage, my sons, my faith. The private archive footage in this documentary has never been seen publicly. Some of it I debated, even including at all. It shows basically the worst of what happens when longevity becomes the ultimate goal, and how you and I can turn that around to become fulfilled by what's truly important in life. Now, this is not just another biohacking film, it's an honest look at what it costs to chase the ceiling on human performance, told through real footage of one family, my family finding that out, and I'm giving you the chance to join me for the brand new live premiere tour of this new film in a city near you. Here's what the night looks like: you watch the film with me and my family in a theater, and then you experience a live episode of the Boundless Life Podcast on stage with open Q and A, real questions, no filters. My wife, Jessa, and my sons, River and Taryn, will be there with us as well. VIP ticket holders get to join for an exclusive after party with upgraded food and drinks. This Boundless Life Tour kicks off in LA on july 24 Austin on august 20, New York City on august 6, Miami coming down the pipeline, London coming down the pipeline. More cities to be announced. Tickets are on sale now. Grab them now before they're gone at Boundless doc.com that's Boundless D O c.com and I hope to see you there.

Ben Greenfield:Dude, that was super fun yesterday, geeking out at the clinic, trying all the things.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, man, there's a lot of neat things there. And yeah, our goal is just to help educate and get people access.

Ben Greenfield: What did we do? Uh, cryo, I did cryo. You chickened out. Uh, red light bed, thought about the hyperbaric but ran out of time, did ozone, exosomes, you did NAD or Niagen?

Jimmy St. Louis: I did Niagen, wasn't any difference. Yeah, so Niagen is essentially a precursor to NAD, and I found, just for me personally, I love to do n-of-one experiments, and yeah, I've actually found that energy levels after Niagen increased almost immediately, and I had been through more, I guess, aggressive NAD protocols, if you will.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: and I really didn't notice a ton of difference.

Ben Greenfield: You told me yesterday you stacked them at one point and you were on fire.

Jimmy St. Louis: It was like, in a good way, I mean, yeah, just like, so you do feel it afterwards,

Ben Greenfield: NAD IV, and then you did a Niagen IV,

Jimmy St. Louis: yeah, and I was just in there with a friend and was like, I've got time, so we'll try this, and that stack was pretty cool.

Ben Greenfield: If people have heard of NR, is Niagen an NR? I'm blanking. I'm sure whoever's in charge of Tru Niagen is screaming at me right now. It's because it's Tru Niagen, right? So their product, yeah, I think it's NR, but I'd be getting screamed at right now. That's NMN. Anyways, different than NAD, and I was telling you I think maybe that form, if I recall properly, gets into the brain better, so you get like a body-plus-brain boost from doing that stack.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, I think maybe that's why, because it lit me up from that perspective as well. I guess it permeates the blood-brain barrier as a small-molecule precursor to NAD.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, and then a whole bunch of billions of exosomes. That's right. And what else do you guys do there at this clinic? Let's see if I can pronounce it right. We're in Nashville. You guys have a bunch of clinics, we'll talk about that. What else do they do over there? Arete?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so Arete was credited first, just with this very interesting story of helping people recover better, for athletes, singer-songwriters, and really blossoming into this more comprehensive longevity clinic,

Ben Greenfield: if

Jimmy St. Louis: you will. So you think about your typical treatment offerings in a longevity clinic, they're broken up into various cohorts. So they do hormone optimization therapy there, they do peptide therapies and antibiotic peptide stacks. They, of course, have all those modalities you mentioned, so red light therapy, hyperbaric, infrared sauna, cryotherapy as well. And then they have what I would call the advanced therapeutics, and that's ozone therapy. We're bringing in therapeutic plasma exchange, plasmapheresis is available, and then comprehensive biologics. So that's the exosome therapies, the stem cell treatments, IV-based plus joint injections.

Ben Greenfield: I didn't even realize, because I was looking into you before I came down here, and we've been talking a lot over the past few weeks, we can get into that, but I didn't realize you were a three-sport athlete. So it was NFL football and CrossFit and rowing, and then you told me yesterday you also did cross country,

Jimmy St. Louis: that's right, yeah. So growing up a military kid, I had the chance to live all over the country, but I spent my younger years in Seattle, Washington, which I always call running country, yeah, and just like in the South,

Ben Greenfield: running, rain, weed, Seattle, yeah, Starbucks.

Jimmy St. Louis: I was exposed to the first two, and not necessarily the latter, but yeah, being there at a young age, it was so cool, because you'd wake up on Saturday mornings and there'd be 300 kids doing a cross-country meet, and so to me that was the foundation for all the other sports. So I grew up a runner, ran cross country, then outdoor track as well, basketball, and then a bit later in life I found the sport of football, just really by coincidence. My father had moved from Seattle to the state of Alabama, where there's football, and so being a bigger kid,

Ben Greenfield: in Seattle you got Allen Bounds like football bibles,

Jimmy St. Louis: that's right, yeah.

Ben Greenfield: Oh no, what else?

Jimmy St. Louis: Well, grunge, Southern food, hip-hop, good country, not so much hunting, right? Yeah, so I found the sport of football really just because I was motivated to do something that was inspiring to somebody. My best friend was a world-class football player, top recruit in the country, but the coach approached me and just said we can do cross-country and football in the same season, you'll break the state record for most varsity letters, and I was like, cool, so let's give it a shot.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, two pretty different sports, slow twitch, fast twitch, almost polar opposite sports.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, yeah. It was quite the journey.

Ben Greenfield: Are you a receiver?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah.

Ben Greenfield: Okay,

Jimmy St. Louis: but you know, in high school, my best friend was the top recruit in the country at that time. I was 6'5", 180, and so I was tall,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: and a runner, but we just had tons of exposure, and with him being a top recruit, we threw the ball a lot. I could jump up and catch it, and yeah, got pretty good at the sport.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, yeah, that is funny, though, because I remember when I was in college, I could dunk, and then as soon as I started doing triathlon, my vertical dropped like six inches. Running cross country and playing receiver, I would imagine you probably could have been faster if you weren't training so much slow twitch with cross country.

Jimmy St. Louis: I think so, but I also think I probably wouldn't have been as successful, because I always say when high-performance athletes start to crumble and get defeated is when they start to experience fatigue. So I already had that great cardiovascular base. Yeah, everything was easier, so I could really perform hard every single play. And to me, it was more of a mental game, something like what parlays to CrossFit and whatnot. You know, you just have the ability to break people down mentally and outwork them. So, to me, I really used that base.

Ben Greenfield: Some grit. My wife ran track and field and cross country, and still sprints faster than me, and arguably has a higher vertical, and so she was kind of a hybrid too, like she has the tight springy hamstrings but then can churn out a pretty quick mile.

Jimmy St. Louis: I had the chance to train with some of the more endurance-based kind of performance optimization trainers as well. They were talking to me about triathlon specifically, and you would know this, but the rotational cycling, and how some of those high-performance cyclists, they don't even want them going to the stair master or walking upstairs, so I imagine that stretch-shortening cycle or something's helping there,

Ben Greenfield: yeah, you get to a very pointy point, you know, sport specificity. That's why the best cyclist, swimmer, or runner in triathlon is never as good as the best pure cyclist, swimmer, or runner, just not enough specificity. And then, so you were in high school, you ran cross country and football, and then I'm assuming you played college ball after that.

Jimmy St. Louis: I did. I played basketball in high school as well. Had a goal of playing that in college too, so I was really looking for the college where I could play both sports.

Jimmy St. Louis: That to me was exciting. So my friend and I just started getting recruited all around the country, and it was a bit of a whirlwind. Didn't really know what to expect, and so I did, I played college football at Auburn University, had the chance to play at the highest level there. SEC football was pretty cool, and it was a great experience, and as I say, a nice chapter of life, not really defining me, but yeah, it was great. Still playing receiver, or tight end?

Ben Greenfield: Tight end. Okay, and then after that, you went up in

Jimmy St. Louis: the NFL. I did, yeah. So I had a couple of setbacks in college, had two ACL tears, but to me I just tried to work my butt off and rehab quickly, and that last year had a pretty good senior year, and we had some exposure with a bunch of other great athletes around us, and signed a contract, actually, here in Nashville.

Ben Greenfield: Oh, Tennessee Titans, that's right. I forgot you played with the Tennessee Titans. The ACL tear. You use a lot of these biohacks on the knee, I tried to,

Jimmy St. Louis: yeah, it's interesting.

Ben Greenfield: Curious, what's been like the most successful for ACL stuff.

Jimmy St. Louis: So, actually, I tore it a third time, and that third time was more of a partial tear. The first two were clean tears, so, of course, had to get surgical intervention, get it repaired. That third time, I did not get it repaired, and it was just kind of hanging on a limb, if you will. And so I actually started doing stem cell treatment on it, just doing joint injections, and did before-and-after MRIs, and actually saw a physical change in the ACL being more and more intact. And so for me now, I have a very stable knee, even despite having not had surgery that last time. The thing that really bothers me, though, when I tore it that last time, I fractured the head of my fibula as well, so there's some arthritis I'm walking around with, and

Ben Greenfield: yeah, the arthritis piece is tough, because I mean you're right, you do see a little bit of regeneration with stem cells, and then cartilage is tricky. I had a little bit of arthritis in my left knee, and wound up doing stem cells, but it was called intraosseous needling, where they drill holes in the two articulating surfaces, almost like aerating a lawn, and then you plug up those surfaces. In this case, they used a bone marrow-based stem cell matrix. Matt Cook actually did that like five years ago. And then that took me from having like 30% of the function in my knee to now I'm probably close to 90%, but yeah, the cartilage piece was tough, just because of the wear and tear from years and years of, among other things, an Ironman.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah. So did he do just joint injections and stack it with

Ben Greenfield: exosomes, the bone marrow-based stem cell matrix, the intraosseous needling. It was him and Sean Tierney tag-teaming the protocol. We did it at Matt's clinic in San Jose. I think those are the main modalities. Then we just chased it with some peptides and stuff for a few weeks after.

Jimmy St. Louis: Repeated over the course of

Ben Greenfield: that was one session. It's minimally invasive, but it's still a little bit invasive. You can imagine, because you're still having to work with the two surfaces of the bone.

Jimmy St. Louis: And did you notice an inflammatory response thereafter?

Ben Greenfield: Yep. The only, I think I was telling you this the other day, the only stem cells I haven't gotten the inflammatory response from are the mu cells. By design you don't get anything, like no immune reaction, no inflammation, no redness, swelling. I think it's just because partially they're so small and so histocompatible. Your immune system doesn't kick them out. So you played football, and then before you went to the NFL, when you were in college, were you studying a lot of this stuff, like business, franchising? Is that where you started to pick up how to do what you're doing now?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so my whole family are either physicians or nurses, working in the healthcare space, so I really just always had an affinity towards it, and would run to the hospital

Ben Greenfield: and

Jimmy St. Louis: peek around as a kid, and I was enamored by it. But I always felt like I wanted a chance to make a difference for people, but not just through the traditional healthcare path, if you will. And I had some family members that had certain ailments, if you will, and over time I really just became enamored with the space, but mostly because of the world of sports first. So it was like, how do you just rest, recover, and repeat? Then starting to understand that there's possibly better, more efficient ways to do it. And I always believe that in team sports, most of the treatment offerings are there to be efficient for a team of 85 people, not for a single person, and so I was out there really just working to seek different ways to rest, recover, and repeat.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: my ACL injury really put me on this track where it was like, okay, I've got to start to take this into my own hands. I'm surrounded with great physicians and great providers, if you will, but they can only do so much. How do I take that into my own hands? So, start doing some research, started learning about other modalities, started probing, started asking, and started to seek those things out, if you will. So it was really more from a sports perspective. And then for my career, I wanted to be a business owner. I wanted to make a difference for people. Had the chance to be a leader on the football field, and to me it was like, okay, what can I do that can really inspire other people? And it just felt very natural for me, with the sports performance world, plus the family members that were in healthcare, plus family members suffering from illness. Like, okay, how can I do something to help meet unmet needs in healthcare,

Ben Greenfield: if

Jimmy St. Louis: you will?

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: that was really the first endeavor for me from a career perspective, was to help people meet unmet needs through innovative healthcare solutions.

Ben Greenfield: It's interesting how much of kind of the pointy edge of this world, like longevity or anti-aging, if you want to call it that, and biohacking came from sports. Like, I first heard about HRV back when most of it was being studied and used for professional European football teams, and then a lot of the early red light photobiomodulation research, a lot of that was based on endurance or recovery. A lot of the compression that we use now in Normatec boots or Therabody, a lot of that came out of the largely the endurance sports world. PEMF, while that came out of the sports world, you know, like half the stuff we do originated for people who want to perform at a really high level, then trickled down to whatever the normies, the masses. Or I think the other thing that happens is the athletes get old and keep on using those same protocols, because they felt so darn good using them when they were competing, and then there's crossover, right? Like the sauna and ice after practice, it's like sauna and ice at night helps me sleep better.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right. Well, you think about consumer-driven healthcare, where people are really making the decision to invest in their healthcare with their own dollars, right? And I always think, what's the best way to change healthcare is to build trust with people, work to make it accessible and affordable, and then to show it's efficacious. But when you have a high-performing athlete, it's almost like an immediate validation point, and people want to do what that athlete's doing, and they want to be like that person.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: so when they see these athletes doing these things and they realize, hey, he's doing it to recover and to show up every Sunday and perform at a high level, why can't I do it to go run a 5k? Right. And so I think,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: those trust points are what has allowed this longevity world to blossom. Those validation points.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. And then there's certain things athletes couldn't give a crap about, like red light helmets and whatever tanning peptides. Some of the stuff is fear or vanity or aesthetics, and only wins when

Jimmy St. Louis: you're standing in your underwear, you actually care about the tanning, right? So you stay on the tanning table. I think we'd have appreciated some injectables instead.

Ben Greenfield: See, what's the size of your, or your follicular health gets factored into your combine score, that'll be the day. So, when you finished your career in the NFL, did you go straight into the health clinic space, or was it simultaneous to doing, because you went on to CrossFit, and you did rowing? What did that path look like?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so there was some overlap. So, to me, football was just one of those things I was having to be good at, love to be around the team, excited to compete, but it was never really intended to be a multi-year career, and of course injuries and other powers that be really just led me to a different path anyway. So I was doubling up on all my efforts even in college, and so graduated early, graduated in three and a half years, then pursued an MBA, a Master's in Finance and Economics, a Master's in Telecommunications. I was stacking degrees along the way and really leveraging, frankly, the scholarship dollars to move quickly. So I always knew I wanted to go into business, and then really thought, okay, why not do this in the healthcare space? So I started working on this stuff while I was playing football, while I'm in camp. I was in there learning new things, and also thinking about, okay, what resources will the NFL provide me to continue to be a lifelong learner, and have the chance to pursue a career after this, no matter how long this lasts.

Ben Greenfield: Do they do that, do they provide resources for like post-NFL career development, in terms of like ongoing education, or an actual financial boost, or something like that?

Jimmy St. Louis: It's actually pretty awesome. It depends on how long you play, but anyone who's ever even just signed an NFL contract, set foot on a field for one day, has access to a slew of benefits. There's access to healthcare benefits, access to the network, access to NFLPA chapters, if you will, and depending on how long you played, there's different tiers. So some get paid pensions, some have access to what they call a world-class healthcare screening, like, you know, go to Cleveland Clinic, go to Mayo Clinic. But then from an education perspective, if you play for a couple years, they actually will pay you or give you up to $25,000 a year in reimbursement.

Ben Greenfield: I was gonna say, they dictate what you can use that for, though, right?

Jimmy St. Louis: It's got to be, you know, certification, undergrad. But I was just at our NFLPA meeting in Tampa, and there's a guy there that's been using it every single year for 15 years, he's got a law degree. He wants to go to medical school now. I'm like, heck yeah. So,

Ben Greenfield: it just repeats like year after year for the rest of your life.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, yep. And some of this is a bit newer. Yeah, the players association work can negotiate with the NFL Trust and the NFL as well. But they're really working hard. I mean, you think about it, the world's very different now, where millions of dollars for these contracts, even when I was playing, I mean, the minimum was $275,000 a year, now it's double that, and then 10-15 years prior to that, I mean, these guys weren't really getting paid that well, and so this is really designed to help them, because those are the guys that built this league. They put their life, you know, their bodies on the line every weekend to entertain people, and so they're really working hard to right that.

Ben Greenfield: Gladiator reimbursement.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right. Yeah,

Ben Greenfield: so you were building this idea of the healthcare clinic space when you were still playing football, and then where did CrossFit and competitive rowing enter the scene?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so for me it really just never stopped. Football was more of just the thing at the time for me, like, what can I compete in next? Yeah, so I immediately pivoted from football to triathlon, triathlons.

Ben Greenfield: I forgot, yeah, triathlons, yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: yeah, and that was

Ben Greenfield: wonderful, we crossed paths at all, because it probably would have been at a similar time as when I was competing.

Jimmy St. Louis: We'll have to check the podium, should have been on there, and maybe, maybe not. We may have had battles together. That's right, so my parents were very active growing up as well. Stepmother was an All-American swimmer, father was a multi-sport athlete as well. Mother comes from a long line of athletes too. And so I always saw them compete in these more traditional sports, running, cycling, etc. And did some triathlons as a kid as well just for fun. So to me it was just like, I don't want to run a 5k, I want to go run a marathon, that sounds cool, but I would rather just do something that's, you know, maybe a little more utilitarian. And so I just went straight into triathlons and started training for some Olympic distance, did a bunch of sprints, then got into the longer ones thereafter. So I did that for about four years, and a friend walked up and was like, "Have you heard of this CrossFit stuff?" And I was like, no. He's like, "Dude, you gotta come check this out."

Ben Greenfield: This is funny, I'm laughing, because for me it was triathlon, and it was, have you heard of this Spartan stuff? Like, I got pulled into obstacle course racing from triathlon, sounds like you got pulled into CrossFit.

Jimmy St. Louis: I did, and that, of course, then sparked the rowing thing as well, which I'll talk about too. But so I got into CrossFit, and for people that are listening, I'm now 6'5", 235 pounds, so if you think about the profile of a CrossFitter,

Ben Greenfield: that's

Jimmy St. Louis: not quite

Ben Greenfield: the ideal for powerlifting,

Jimmy St. Louis: the length or powerlifting, even just the cycle time,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: a thruster taking 50% longer than someone with your traditional CrossFit build,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: but this is 2013, and so I just went at it hard, and back then you could just have raw talent, raw strength,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: a great motor, and if it's programmed enough where some of the longer workouts are built in,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: in conjunction with the sprints, there are longer ones where I could win and do quite well, yeah, so I was able to qualify for regionals that year, and did that for four years in a row. And I will never forget, though, despite all the other stuff I did in sports, the most humbling experience I'd had to date was the very first workout at regionals. So I'm 6'5", 235 at the time, and it's 21-15-9 of handstand push-ups and thrusters, and I'm just like, I've never done a handstand push-up before, and they put your hands in a box, right? So here's my arms,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: and you've got a guy who's much shorter,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: and my hands have to go in that same box, so my head's going like this right now, 12 inches off the ground. These guys pop right up, and I didn't complete the workout, so I finished dead last, and this is at regionals. Ended up going on competing and winning a couple of other events, and did all right, but I remember thinking, when this sport advances any further, I mean, do this, yeah, and then of course it did, then you get into muscle-ups, and you know, you get into handstand walks and all that stuff. But I will tell you, it taught me more about my body, and just how to lift properly, and good form, and good posture, and structure, and all those mechanics, and any other thing I did.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, because I had to, being this size, I am, so I was able to carry that with me into other sports as well.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, as well. Yeah,

Ben Greenfield: that's funny. CrossFit was one of the things that just never made it on my radar, and I would drop into WODs every once in a while, but by the time it got popular I was racing Spartan, and pretty serious about Spartan, and felt like CrossFit was just, back to the specificity piece, like it was kind of detracting from some of the Spartan-specific stuff I wanted to do. And then by the time I finished Spartan, I was just like, not too fragile for CrossFit, but I think high injury potential for me, given how competitive I am. Yeah, inability to not push.

Jimmy St. Louis: I would have actually probably preferred Spartan, of course, really, just with the running background, and just, you know, a little bit more diversity and whatnot as well.

Ben Greenfield: Still do them, yeah, still an option, Tough Mudder. There's a few, well, actually, I don't know if they're still doing Tough Mudder, but they still have Spartan, and then of course they've got High Rocks and DEKA Fit now, entering the scene.

Jimmy St. Louis: Have you heard of the, they used to call it the, was it the Death Race, and this was the ultimate Spartan, where they don't give you a finish line?

Ben Greenfield: I did it a couple of times. I did the Winter Death Race when it was 32 degrees below zero during the cold snap in Vermont out at Joe's farm. In the first hour, a couple of girls got pulled with frostbite on their toes, they literally had to keep pulling us into the ambulance and medical tent to check fingers and check toes. My water bottle, if I didn't keep it right up against my skin, would just freeze as soon as I took it out. I remember that, my heart rate really fell during the event, which I finished, I think mid-30s, like 37 something like that. Started, I think, around 11, actually finished that year. Awesome. And I remember like sitting in medical, getting my feet inspected, and I could hear some of the race directors in the other room, basically having a conversation about what they figured they should have us do next, because they were just making it up as they went. They were actually so cold, they were literally just having to call the shots on the evolutions and the exercises. It was hard. And there was one night we were given the opportunity to like crawl into a bivy sack and take a quick nap. When I saw how cold that event was gonna be, and I had already signed up for it, I didn't have a lot of cold weather gear, because I wasn't super hardcore into hunting at that point, and I had an REI membership, so I went into the REI and just like loaded up on everything, rated to negative 40. Somebody at REI is probably gonna exist when I hear this, but did the race, went back, returned it all. I was just spent, like it's all right, the money I didn't have on the best gear. I paid my membership dues. So then after CrossFit, was rowing at the same time, or was that after you finished the CrossFit career, if you want to call it that?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, it was a bit interesting, so back to the theme of being way too tall for the sport,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: and having the chance to win some of the events that were longer ones, of course the rowing machine was a core element of CrossFit,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: so that one was always natural to me. And I was at regionals one year, and actually a former rower walked up. He was like, "Hey, you know, you got to check out this thing called the Crash-Bs in Boston. It's in like two weeks." And I was like, "What is that?" He's like, "It's the World Indoor Rowing Championship." And my response was, "Well, how the heck do you do that?" And so he's like, "This is what it is. It's like 300 rowing machines in the bottom of the Boston University Coliseum." You mean like Concept Twos? Concept Twos, yeah, yeah, C2s. And he's like, "You should just go do it. We'll sponsor you, we'll fly you up there, and if you do well, maybe you go compete around the country and do this." And so I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot. And I learned that I had great fitness but did not know how to row, but actually went there and won a bronze medal. So I lost to the Cuban national champion and the German national champion and beat all the guys on the US rowing team. Wow. And I went sub-5:50 on the 2K. So it's a 2,000-meter race,

Ben Greenfield: no handstand push-ups,

Jimmy St. Louis: no handstand push-ups. I was fortunate to be able to use my length as well, and so there were several hundred of these guys there competing, and if you go sub-5:50 it's a 2,000-meter race, so the standard race in rowing in the Olympics, all that's 2,000 meters,

Ben Greenfield: yeah. So a good time is sub-5:50 on the 2K.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, yeah, that's right. So I won a bronze medal, and total coincidence, the US Rowing head coach was there, and he actually went to high school with the CFO of my company at the time. He was like, "Hey, I know a guy who works for you, I looked you up on LinkedIn." He's like, "I mean, you just beat all my guys, do you want to come out to California and see if you can learn the sport?" And so I said, yeah, let's give it a shot.

Ben Greenfield: You mean like actual, like water,

Jimmy St. Louis: like learn how to row on the water, and I was like, sure, let's give it a shot. And I remember I got in the single. Have you ever been in a rowing boat before?

Ben Greenfield: Not the kind you're talking about,

Jimmy St. Louis: a single, and I mean, just straight into the water, just flipped over. And I got up and I said, there is no way that this is a normal setup, because like it is. And then eventually I learned and got a bit better. And what was actually really cool was University of Washington, great rowing program. They had a coach who had a brother who was a former NFL guy as well that I knew. And he said, "Come on up. Like, you want to learn this sport, this takes people years to learn, why don't you just go at it hard for a bit?" And I went there and trained with the college guys. They were back-to-back-to-back national champions, and they thought it was cool, like this older guy who played professional football. And so they really took me under their wing, and I just started training and got super enamored by it. So there was a three-month time period where I was actually rowing 100,000 meters a day, whether it was on the water or on the machine,

Ben Greenfield: 100,000

Jimmy St. Louis: 100,000. So seven, eight hours of,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: we would do three to four 60-minute pieces on the Concept Two, we'd get out on the water and we would just do race pieces, and it was the

Ben Greenfield: only thing I'm thinking about right now is how sore and tight my low back would be, like if I row a 5K I start to feel it in my low back a little bit.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, and I think what I learned was mechanics are so important,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: so this was really the second stint really focusing on mechanics. So to me, I mean, rowing is all about efficiency, those are flywheels. You want to zoom right, and so I was able to learn that relatively quickly and add some finesse, and then just start to compete, and just chipped away and got better and better and better, and was able to row, finished third in the double at the US Olympic trials, and then was able to hop on the eight-man and compete pretty well, and this was about a one-year period. So just,

Ben Greenfield: cool, yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: it was neat.

Ben Greenfield: Were you married at that time, was that pre, okay, pre-kids, pre-marriage,

Jimmy St. Louis: pre-kids, pre-marriage. Well, pre-current-toddlers. I had a 14-year-old daughter, so she was traveling with me as well, and the men's team was, I think that year, fifth in the Olympics, but the women had won four Olympics in a row. And so we were able to go out to the training center, and my daughter was able to spend time with these Olympians, soccer players, rowers, it was an amazing experience for her.

Ben Greenfield: And your daughter plays tennis now, right? Yes. So beyond all these sports, which, like you were talking about earlier, kind of feeds the curiosity of how to optimize performance and recovery into more of the health clinic space. When did Agentis enter the scene?

Jimmy St. Louis: So Agentis entered the scene after two other business endeavors as well. So we had a national network of spine surgery clinics that were really intended to change the standard of care. We invented the minimally invasive spine surgery model. We created this reverse medical tourism model where people would fly in from all over the country, and that business really took off. At its peak, it had about 2,000 employees, and we had about 100,000 spine surgeries out of that business. But we really transformed that marketplace, if you will, and that was when I was able to crystallize the message of helping people meet unmet needs through an innovative healthcare solution or practice. And so with the success of that company we were able to get some attention and build some nice connections in the more innovative healthcare marketplace, if you will, and I started doing some research, was like, what's next? After we sold that company, I stumbled into the world of stem cell treatment and biologics, and just became enamored with that, and having had the knee injuries and having adopted some of those things myself, I thought there's an opportunity here to really help people understand safe, effective solutions from a stem cell treatment perspective, stateside and internationally. So we attacked that. We opened up 15 locations around the country, all within the practice of medicine, and we then had a couple international locations as well, and

Ben Greenfield: all primarily doing stem cells.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right. Primarily doing stem cells, and the thing I learned in that space was really, how can you meet unmet needs through these solutions, but also started to have my first foray into regulatory, and really just understanding all those nuances as well, which surely we'll chat about too. So we had some success. We partnered with the Mayo Clinic. They really took that business over, would treat about 10,000 patients out of that business. Largest safety study done in the stem cell space, if you will, and they then took it and parlayed that into some of their exosome protocols that they're running now. So, after that business, it then was like the collision of these two worlds, which is innovative healthcare solutions plus high-performance sports, and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next, and was just having fun. I was traveling around the country, going and checking out all these different clinics. I went to 40 Years of Zen. I've gone to guys at Next Health. I was able to do some secret shopping and just go experience these things. This is really cool, but what I noticed is there's it's so fragmented. I mean, there's stuff for the healthcare reclaimers, which is like hormone therapy and some peptide treatments, and stuff for the achievers, which is like the advanced biologics and therapies and modalities, if you will, and nobody had really defined the standard of care in the longevity space. But I knew that, different than creating a better mousetrap like in spine care, somebody had to identify what best practices are, but really do it on the fly. And so that's how Agentis was born, where we essentially have the business model of acquiring best-in-class longevity healthcare clinics who are doing certain things within our treatment scope, or what we call our honeycomb services, exceptionally well, and then we bring in world-class medical advisors to drive the standard, and then we leverage some technology to train our clinicians across the board.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, so a place like we were at yesterday, Arete Wellness in Nashville, you didn't start that clinic, you found that clinic and then acquired it with Agentis, and then that allowed you to basically build on what they're already doing, and introduce what we'll talk about later on, like the Longevity Quotient, some of the tests we were doing yesterday, and you just basically rinse, wash, and repeat that at different clinics in the US. Or is it

Jimmy St. Louis: an acquisition that's currently underway? I think we're very disciplined in terms of not getting shiny object syndrome. I mean, there's so many cool things out there in the longevity space, but the consumer journey, in my perspective, is fragmented, confusing. Some is built with trust and some isn't. And so I think consumers are really just seeking best-in-class, like, what are the easiest, simplest solutions to help me embark on this journey, if you will. So a company like Arete that we found was doing things exceptionally well on more of the advanced therapies, like stem cell treatments and peptide therapies and modalities. But some of the other clinics that we've acquired were practicing hormone optimization therapy exceptionally well, right, and we saw that as a chance to marry with a clinic like Arete and start to share some best practices to expand services.

Ben Greenfield: So it's kind of like a rising tide thing, so you'll find a clinic who's really good at, say, hormone therapy, and you can acquire that clinic, and you can kind of decode their secret sauce for hormone therapy, so to speak, go to another clinic who's done a really good job with stem cells, and eventually build this network where all the clinics are using all the best practices that they've learned from all the other clinics.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, that's right. Yeah, so think about, we call it a honeycomb of services, so it's like here's your honeycomb with all the different service offerings, and this is the puzzle of how it all fits together. Yeah, but not all clinics have to do all things, and they don't have to do all things exactly the same at the start. Our goal is to share those best practices, so our different treatment verticals are, one is hormone therapy, and be really good at that. The next is peptide therapies, and then biologics, stem cell treatment, exosomes, if you will. Then there's IV therapies. Then there are the advanced therapeutics, like therapeutic plasma exchange, plasmapheresis, which we talked about. Then there's the modalities, and that's hyperbaric and red light. If you think about that, that can feel like a lot. So we're really working hard to systematize those things across all of our clinics. If any of them do one of those things exceptionally well, we think, okay, you have the chance to be best-in-class. We will acquire them, and then we'll seek out that world-class physician or expert or team of experts, like a Matt Cook on peptides, right, and we will say, help us define the standard of care for these specific treatments. Then we will create those protocols, and then we will leverage our tech solution, which we'll chat about, to really train across all of our clinics, and so then eventually they're all singing from the same sheet of music. Yeah, but the difference is they're serving different markets, right? Some are in the Midwest, and they're servicing maybe the healthcare reclaimer, who's like, I've lost a step, so maybe I don't need all those advanced therapeutics, and they're available, but help me just start my journey. Or in some more prime markets, like in Nashville, where you have people that are like, yeah, sure, I want to start on my journey, but you also have others that are like, help me optimize as well. Yeah, so the idea is we're able to serve both populations, but through this systematized approach where the onboarding process is consistent, the data collection process is consistent, but not all of them will go all the way downstream to all those additional services.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, so it's not exactly like a McDonald's, it's not going to be the same thing everywhere. They each have a little bit of their own flavor and personality when you walk into a clinic. That's right. Okay. Yeah. Are these clinics finding you at all, or are you pretty much doing 100% of the sourcing yourself at Agentis?

Jimmy St. Louis: Sure. At the beginning, nobody knew who we were, so of course we were reaching out to them. But now it's actually pretty interesting. We've got some recognition. Our vision, I think, is something people can really get behind, right? It's like, how do you change healthcare? How do you help advance healthier, happier lives, but do so by driving the standard of care, like truly defining that standard of care in longevity healthcare. And so when people hear that, they think, okay, that's pretty cool. Now tell me how you're doing that. But then I think when they see that we've been able to attract world-class physicians, they see the advocacy work that we're doing in DC, to not just talk about change, but actually working to educate and instill change in this marketplace and define the standard from that perspective, it's seen as legitimate and serious. And so now most clinics are reaching out to us and saying, how can we be a part of that? Yeah, the vision is so important from that perspective.

Ben Greenfield: Those of you who are watching, even if you own a clinic, for example, for links to Jimmy's stuff and to the Agentis website, if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/JimmyPodcast. Yesterday we were going through, I think, what is probably the technology that you were referring to, where you designed this Longevity Quotient, like this battery of tests, like 15 minutes of tests that you can go through to get a score, which I thought was kind of cool. Can you walk people through what it is that they're getting tested?

Jimmy St. Louis: Sure, so the objective of the LQ, as we call it, was to have this cool metric, like you have IQ, and now what's your LQ, and so hopefully people can resonate with that. But in the theme of working to be accessible and affordable, create consistency, and drive best-in-class standards, we knew we had to have a starting point. And if every patient walked in the door with a different journey, with a whole slew of tests and information, it would have been very difficult to create a journey that's consistent for them. So we created this concept of the Longevity Quotient, which is a series of five tests, takes 12 to 15 minutes to complete. We believe it's the most efficient, effective solution that's accessible and affordable to give people critical health information to help them embark on their journey and to really inform their care plan. So the Longevity Quotient is made up of these various tests. Again, 15 minutes to complete. The tests that it's made up of are all scientifically validated, they're highly tested, they're widely adopted, but we've married these five different tests together with a team of world-class experts who are biostatisticians to help create this composite score. And to me it's more like, how do you gamify the solution where now you've got a scoreboard for your health?

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: that's the benchmark, and then test, retest as you're getting treated along the way to actually see your scoreboard change.

Jimmy St. Louis: So these five tests, we can go into them and explain what they are. You walk in the

Ben Greenfield: I mean, I know one was body composition, one was grip strength. What else did we do? That computer vision, eye tracking, reaction time. Yeah, cognitive view. Go ahead, explain it to people.

Jimmy St. Louis: Sure. So the journey is you walk in the door, you're handed an iPad, or you download the app, and you answer nine questions that are from a whole-health questionnaire, if you will. So this whole-health questionnaire is actually scientifically validated to assess emotional well-being, physical well-being, healthy habits, quality of life, that type of stuff. So that was a scientifically validated questionnaire, if you will. And then after that, they answer a few more questions about their cardiometabolic health. So there's a test called a COSEHC-17, and so what that is, that stands for Composite Southeastern Hypertension Composite Score,

Ben Greenfield: right?

Jimmy St. Louis: So, there you go.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: so there's 17 different markers. There's a questionnaire, and then there's biomarkers,

Ben Greenfield: there's like family history of heart disease, and have you ever had issues? And then you can also pull like lipids and triglycerides and stuff like that into that.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, that's right. So there's a number of different biomarkers from your blood work that fit into that very well. And so then we do a body composition test, and to us some critical markers from that perspective are visceral fat and muscle mass, right, two great indicators for longevity.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: scoreboard, it's gamified, people are excited to see it when they come back in. Visceral

Ben Greenfield: fat, but also muscle mass distribution, visceral fat distribution, that's right, that can approximate metabolic rate, which is useful for the nutrition design phase. Phase angle. I'd forgotten that it did phase angle. A lot of people don't realize or know what that is, but basically it's a measurement of the resistance of the cells to the current that flows through the body, with the idea that the more hydrated your cells are, the better, the more efficient they're going to be from a metabolic rate standpoint. And so if you have a high phase angle, you tend to reflect better cellular health, not just based on speculation. There's some interesting data showing nutrition deficiencies correlating pretty well with phase angle and dehydration. And then I remember I used to hang out with, he's kind of a weird cat but cool, Dr. Joe Mercola. He used to have like a little phase angle measurement tool, and he would like measure you, and then do things like put you next to a Wi-Fi router, have you hold your cell phone. He actually, not a large-scale clinical study, but he made a pretty good case that the higher the amount of EMFs you were constantly exposed to, the lower your phase angle, because even Gerald Pollack talks about this, the scientist from University of Washington, about how things like photons of light and electrical frequencies actually affect the movement and the structure of water in the cells. Kind of a rabbit hole, but you're testing that on the InBody assessment.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right,

Ben Greenfield: and then so you've got the cardiovascular, you have the questionnaire, you've got the body comp and body scan, then what else?

Jimmy St. Louis: Then there's the cognition test. So it's a device that can measure your executive function, your response time, your memory, and it's really meant to be a screening tool to understand if you might have any early-onset issues to be thinking about, or just frankly, cognitive impairment. FDA-cleared tool as well. So we're doing video games,

Ben Greenfield: you crush that test, that's right, yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: that's right. And having not grown up playing video games, I will say I was still pleased with the score, but the beauty is it gives you a baseline, right?

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. I think the little joystick was just throwing me for a loop, but those are probably the longest tasks, which are like five or six minutes. And then grip strength, grip strength, yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: grip strength. What people may not know is it's probably the most measured marker for longevity, right? Think about it, good grip strength is linked to some quad strength, grip possibly.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, yeah. It typically reflects that you're active in other areas of life, because in order to have good grip strength you gotta be carrying stuff around, or hanging. And it correlates with leg musculature, like you were just saying. I gotta figure out a way to game that test. I have big meaty paws. Used to race obstacle courses, I can dead hang forever. One-arm pull-ups, and I hit like 130 on the grip strength test, which is not high, like I should be hitting close to 200. So I need to figure out, like, I don't know if it's the way I'm gripping that thing or what, but I'm stronger than this, I know

Jimmy St. Louis: for a fact. We've got that ball. I've

Ben Greenfield: carried sandbags through the mountains with each hand, like straight up the side of a mountain. I know I can do this.

Jimmy St. Louis: And I do wonder about how do you gamify it, how do you kind of rig that test, if you will? It's funny you mentioned the 200. So that's my goal, I've set my goal this year to be 200. So, yeah, if you're in my car later you'll see I've got the little hand gripper in there. I'm always training.

Ben Greenfield: Oh, yeah, it's in my backpack right now. I have the TSA-friendly one for the airplane. Because the captain-crush ones they don't like, but there's the other one that just looks like it's got finger holes, that's okay.

Jimmy St. Louis: Well, you know, I wonder if you're a rock climber, right? And you've got incredible grip strength, I would assume. Is that really an indicator of longevity, right? Because then you're going at it one way in training,

Ben Greenfield: yeah. Of course there's a specificity component, but when you look at walking speed, VO2 max, and grip strength as being three correlates to longevity, I was telling you this yesterday, it's hard for somebody to go and do a longevity quotient and have to do like a 20-minute graded exercise protocol and fall off the back of a treadmill doing a VO2 max test. Like, anybody can hold a grip strength measurement tool. Walking speed is also kind of difficult to directly measure. There've been a lot of good correlative studies, so you take all those components and then you get a score. But I was looking at my score yesterday, it pulled in my lab measurements as well, like those are feeding into it.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, yeah, yeah. So there's the series of tests, and then you end this experience with your blood drawn, and you download the app, and the next day most of your labs are back, they're in there, and so you'll actually see your score change over time as we put more and more in. The score is on there now. The labs were selected by our medical advisory board to really be broken out into a number of different cohorts, if you will. So I know you had Matt on your show, and you guys talked about the different organ systems, yeah. Matt Cook, being able to correlate peptide stacks to organ systems, very similar approach, and he advises on this as well. So you think about the different cohorts and the blood work being cognition, metabolic function, cardiovascular, hormones, of course, and there's a fitness component, nutrition component as well. So those 60 markers are bashed up into those various cohorts, and that way you're able to gamify or see the scoreboard as you

Ben Greenfield: right, right. Your metabolic score might be the hemoglobin A1c, and glucose or insulin, and a hormone score might be total T, free T, estrogen, etc. And then say you have each of those broken out as well. That's right. Genius, because you can see blood work, and maybe you've got like, let's say you have a score of zero to 180 on the blood work, but that might be because hormones are like 30 and metabolic is 90, so breaking them out like that, it was helpful for me to see that. So when somebody comes in to a clinic, pretty much any clinic that Agentis owns now, they're going to do that Longevity Quotient as a part of their onboarding,

Jimmy St. Louis: that's right. So, as we described, since each of these clinics have been around for different periods of time, different service offerings, different types of patients, we just believe there had to be some way to create consistency as we start to migrate and grow those clinics. So this Longevity Quotient was designed to be that single entry point for every patient, so not everyone has the same set of data. Then we can leverage our protocols that we've created, which will be the same across the board, with some AI enablement to be able to create consistency in the patient journey. And so you think about the providers now, we don't have to bring them on the phone and flood them into corporate and have them learn all these new protocols. They're really handed the protocol, if you will, and they still have discretion, of course. That's very important. But we're able to easily enable this patient care plan with consistency across the entire enterprise.

Ben Greenfield: Food is such a big thing. How do you tell people how to eat, or do you guys do much in the way of diet programming or nutrition programming?

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so of course it's core to the longevity journey. Yeah, so the way that we think about this is we've got these core tests, and those core tests will inform the care plan within those services that I described, right, the hormone, peptides, etc. And so that creates this care plan. Then there's this other component, which is like, what are the non-negotiables? And I think you talk about a lot of this with Boundless Life, it's like moving, being in sunlight, proper nutrition,

Ben Greenfield: big glass of water when you wake up, getting outside, preferably touching the ground, 15 to 20 minutes a day, seven to nine hours of sleep a night.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, that's right. And so we believe that nutrition, being a core component, is a specialty of its own as well. So you think about things like the weight loss modalities and all those things. So it's a great question, because that's actually our next endeavor. So what we do is we'll find again these specialists, and so we have an engagement that we're about to do with a specialist that we think is a world-class provider on this as well, and she is going to help us develop more of the nutrition components, if you will, of our

Ben Greenfield: yeah, yeah, that's what I attempted to do, even with Boundless, not from a tech standpoint, from an I-can-look-this-up-in-a-book standpoint, is there are 13 different diets in the nutrition section of the book, and then a matrix under each diet that indicates, okay, so if your goals are this, whatever, fat loss, metabolic management, muscle gain, autoimmune conditions, whatever, this is the diet that might work best for you. You could theoretically, long term, with the help of a nutritionist, actually develop something that's pulling in the Longevity Quotient, and then after assessing blood work, possibly some other labs, depending how deep you want to go, then you're getting an actual nutrition program that's selecting for the client one out of, say, like five, six nutrition programs that you have available.

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right, there are really two important pieces with that question. So the way I look at this is accessibility and affordability drives trust,

Ben Greenfield: yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: which drives adoption, and so most of what we do and want to keep very simple. It's like,

Ben Greenfield: yeah, because a lot of this is cash pay, right?

Jimmy St. Louis: That's right. So, like, here's LQ, here's world-class protocols, here's how we mirror them, here's your care plan.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: a care plan is to be easy to understand, and then they can do add-ons and those things thereafter.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: you think about nutrition, there's a lot that goes into it, though. There's psychology, there's culture, there's where you live, there's access to certain foods, there's knowledge, and that's like a whole other endeavor that's taking place. So our perspective is, let's give people the most critical information about their health. Let's help them understand supplementation and proper diet and those things. But there has to be a level of alignment, which is why I love cash-pay healthcare, right? Because you're already aligned, because they're making that decision to invest in themselves and invest in the fact that they trust you along the way. So we try to keep it simple on them. We don't do a ton of dietary advice and specialized advice from that perspective for the reclaimers, right? So to me that what I just discussed, that's the reclaimers, like I've lost a step, tell me what I need to know.

Ben Greenfield: Right?

Jimmy St. Louis: But some of the more advanced things, like DNA methylation tests, genomics testing, food sensitivity tests, we were talking about yesterday, I believe those should be the second phase of the care plan as well.

Ben Greenfield: Right?

Jimmy St. Louis: To me, the LQ addresses things that every single person in the world deserves to have access to.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of times the type of person who needs to come into a clinic like yours and do cash-pay services like that, they're kind of at least a little bit aware of what they're shoving down their gaping maw. They're not eating at McDonald's. The exercise component, hopefully, anything can be fixed with the right peptide protocol, Big Mac and BPC-157. So with the exercise component, this is how we connected, in terms of me coming down here, you know, that's part of my specialty with my background in exercise physiology, strength conditioning, personal training. Like, how do you actually create the perfect exercise protocol that pulls in components like VO2 max and lactate threshold and mitochondrial efficiency, fat burning, strength, power, mobility? And that's kind of what we're trying to weave in now as well, on the customer journey, where someone's been doing ozone or hyperbaric, maybe ozone, possibly a peptide protocol, or even a stem cell protocol. What does the actual fitness routine look like? So this has been kind of exciting the past couple of days, we're mapping out this, I guess opening the kimono for people, like, you know, what a 12-week journey would look like that includes my flavor of optimizing the human metabolism, muscle composition, strength, and overall movement protocols.

Jimmy St. Louis: Yeah, so that is the exact model that we've done with other treatment verticals, if you will. So you think about how we connected on this specific topic, was that there's a big gap for us. People are asking for it. Who's world-class at it? You. And so now our thought is we share the same mission: help people live longer, healthier, happier lives. And you have incredible knowledge from that perspective that people are seeking out, and so to me this continuity of care, where now we're able to connect the dots with all the different treatment offerings, with great knowledge, with world-class advice and guidance from a fitness perspective, that really helps to close the loop for patients. So without being a jack of all trades, master of none, the objective is really, how do you create this consistent plan that's easy to undergo? And you've got Boundless Life, we have LQ and Agentis, and that just seems like it's a pretty cool match.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, yeah, because you're doing it all to do everything. And we were talking about this yesterday, you actually monitor people's homes now as well, right? Is this the one that does like your air quality?

Jimmy St. Louis: I think it was cool, so one of the neatest things I discovered is CO2 levels in the bedroom will disrupt sleep patterns. Yep, right. And so what this device does is it tells you your room or your home is optimized for sleep, temperature, CO2 numbers, and it sends the data to your Ultrahuman app. It does, yeah, sends the data, and it's like, here's prime sleep time, and it will also say your sleep cycle was disrupted last night, and by the way, maybe your CO2 is high, and it could be things like sleeping with a dog in the room, right, and so it'll just say something simple like crack a window, and you'll see the next day that sleep cycle is not disrupted. So it's just small optimization things. Yeah, so as part of our onboarding, what happens is as patients join, they go through LQ, and they can sign up for our Ultrahuman partnership, because that stuff's in their house.

Ben Greenfield: So cool, dude. I love what you're doing. This is super cool. Yeah, man. And for people listening, if somebody's a doctor, they own a medical clinic, they can go to the website and reach out to you if they kind of want to implement some of what you've created in their clinic. And then if somebody is a future patient, I assume you guys have like a directory on your website that shows cities.

Jimmy St. Louis: They can find us through the main site, and of course they can seek out some of the brands that we acquire as well. It's interesting you brought up the part about the doctor piece. I mean, my perspective is rising tides lift all boats, and this world has a chance to have a lot of really great players in it, and because this space is so new and people are trying to decide, like, how do I trust it?

Ben Greenfield: Yeah,

Jimmy St. Louis: we want to share best practices, we want to collaborate, we want to find those other world-class providers and share notes. And my wife brought this up last night, and I thought it was pretty cool. She said, can LQ just make its way into a primary care office or into a concierge office? And to me, I think it belongs there, even independent of Agentis. Like, if patients can walk in with this information, and then these physicians can at least be interested in learning about some of the more advanced treatments out there, then that may be the chance to change healthcare.

Ben Greenfield: Right, right. And importantly, these aren't like randomly chosen, the grip strength, or the cardiac questionnaire, or the cognitive view, like you were saying. These are actually good proxies for longevity. That's why they're chosen, they're actually based on big data, not just like this wasn't Jimmy sitting on the couch like, I feel like these could make somebody live a long time, let's go with these ones. All right, cool. BenGreenfieldLife.com/JimmyPodcast, where the show notes are, with Jimmy St. Louis, my guest. I don't know if I said your last name the whole show. Lou-ee? Anyways, you guys, thanks so much for watching. I'll put all the other things that you need to know, where you can also leave your questions, your comments, and your feedback for Jimmy or me, BenGreenfieldLife.com/JimmyPodcast. Thanks for watching.

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