December 28, 2023

Explore the dynamic intersection of tech entrepreneurship and wellness innovation with today's remarkable guest, Forrest Smith, and discover a little-known way to kill pain and heal up joints fast, without drugs or expensive physical therapy modalities. 

As the visionary founder of Kineon Labs, a former extreme athlete, and an esteemed leader, Forrest brings to the forefront an impressive 20-year track record of not only creating but also scaling successful startups.

An avid sports enthusiast, Forrest's competitive spirit was honed on the fields of Atlanta, where he played various sports and continues to actively participate in rugby matches and CrossFit training. This athletic passion was the catalyst for the conception of the Kineon MOVE+ enhanced light therapy device, a key offering from Reviiv Light that embodies his commitment to health and fitness.

From the age of 14, Forrest has cultivated a deep fascination for Chinese culture and language, a passion that has grown into fluency and profound professional expertise in the Asian market. His 18 years of experience in startup creation and executive management in Asia have been marked by considerable success.

In 2000, Forrest embarked on his first entrepreneurial journey in China with a fabric-sourcing company, which was later acquired in 2002. Over the next decade, he demonstrated his exceptional aptitude for business development and leadership, founding and directing a series of companies, including Source Pro Asia, August Vale, and Illumitron. Each venture flourished under his guidance, leading to acquisition by larger corporations, such as Wilway Holdings and Cooper Lighting.

In addition to his remarkable entrepreneurial journey, Forrest has demonstrated his versatility and expertise through various roles, from Director of Asian Operations for a Fortune 500 company to Director of Business Development. His educational background is as diverse and robust as his professional experience, with an International Baccalaureate focused on Chinese, further studies at the prestigious Nanjing University/Johns Hopkins Center, and undergraduate studies at Georgia Tech.

His profound dedication to his work, coupled with his extensive experience and knowledge, positions Forrest as a thought leader in his industry, driving the integration of health, wellness, and advanced technology.

During our discussion, you'll discover:

– Forrest's background in fitness and transition into technology…6:12

• Former extreme athlete, rugby player, and CrossFitter
• Delved into studying technology in China
  • Paved the way for photobiomodulation
• Lived in China for almost 20 years
• Relocated his family to Mexico during the COVID-19 pandemic
  • Left China just before lockdown
  • Didn't intend to stay in Mexico

-Benefits of living in Mexico…10:33

• Lives in San Miguel de Allende
• Great quality of schools for his boys
• Most places are above 7000 ft altitude
  • Great location for altitude training
• Ease of doing business in Mexico
  • Overall growth as a business hub
  • Strengthening currency
• Evolving global landscape
  • Promising future for Mexico
• Trainer bikes in Forrest's home:
  • The Echo Bike is made by Rogue
  • Assault AirBike

-How Forrest initially became interested in red light therapy…16:12

• Playing rugby in South China reignited his passion for contact sports
• Had been involved in gym lifting
  • Lacked metabolic conditioning
• High-stress work life in entrepreneurial pursuits
  • Seven-day workweek
  • Used metabolic training as a stress relief strategy
• Metabolic training became vital for offsetting age-related injuries and harnessing cognitive benefits
  • Observed in both scientific literature and daily personal experiences
  • Forrest uses metabolic training for overall well-being
• The impact of inflammation from injuries and overuse
  • Exercise can trigger inflammation in old injuries
  • Can impede cardiovascular functions and affect overall health
  • Injuries on endothelial tissue
    • Stiffening of blood vessel walls
    • Decreased cardiovascular strength
    • Potential for severe events or mortality
• Red light therapy and its beneficial effects on inflammation
  • Inflammation management in old injuries
  • Forrest was initially skeptical about its efficacy
    • Dispelled after delving into the medical literature
• Calroy (20% discount auto-applied at checkout)
• Podcast with Dr. Jack Wolfson:
  • “The Surprising Truth About Coffee & Heart Attacks, How Sulfur Can Rescue Your Arteries, Better Erections Naturally & More With The Natural Heart Doctor Jack Wolfson.”
• Developed Kineon Health — targeted red light therapy (use code BGLIFE to save 10%)
  • Triggers specific photo acceptors within the body
    • Uses different wavelengths and powers
    • Optimal light distribution through tissue

-Forrest's red light therapy discoveries for health optimization…28:15

• The Kineon team focused extensively on modeling light distribution (use code BGLIFE to save 10%)
  • Started with the intended results and worked backward
  • Identified the depth of photo acceptors in tissue
    • Modeled how light and photons optimally activate targeted signaling molecules within the body
    • Beer-Lambert law for understanding photon distribution through tissue
  • Other companies focus on engineering dose measurements or metrics
  • Upgraded internal models using existing ones
    • Able to pinpoint photo acceptor locations and reservoirs within tissue depths
  • Avoided building abstract mathematical models detached from reality
  • Leveraged devices like NNOXX for serum nitric oxide measurement
    • Evan Peikon, co-founder of NNOXX
    • Baselining and verification of expected outcomes
  • Able to verify model accuracy by comparing expected physiological responses to actual measurements
• Kineon's optimized dosing model and treatment methods
  • Differences between surface and internal tissue treatment
  • Differences between LED and laser use
  • Direct and broad emission patterns of lasers and LEDs
• Kineon's approach to photobiomodulation
  • Precise dosing for effective outcomes

-Photo acceptors and how they interact with light…31:16

• Molecules within tissues targeted by light energy for downstream signaling
• Increased energy production
  • Positively affects cellular functions
  • Reduces oxidative stress
  • Benefits cardiovascular tissue through nitric oxide release
• Discoveries indicate that distributing the same power across multiple emitters can be more effective than concentrating it through a single source
  • Overdosing with light doesn't cause damage but diminishes therapeutic benefits
  • Could lead to an overflow of free radical production, excessive nitric oxide, and ATP production
  • The most powerful lasers might not necessarily yield the best results
    • Communication with molecular-level photo acceptors in the body is crucial
• VCSEL lasers
• Removing bottlenecks in the electron transport chain with compounds like methylene blue
  • Enhanced energy production
• Shilajit
• Spirulina and chlorella
• Bioblue (use code BEN to save 10%)

-Proper dosing of Kineon's Red Light Therapy devices and the effects…38:32

• For photobiomodulation, the key is the dosing
• Uses both Class 1 and Class 2 lasers in the devices
  • Class 2 lasers found to be more effective
  • How the light is distributed affects dosing
• Arndt-Schulz curve
• Lasers emit light in a very direct manner (called a collimated beam)
• LEDs emit light in a Lambertian pattern — 360 degrees
• Kineon article: “Red Light Therapy vs. Near Infrared vs. Infrared: Key Differences Explained”
• Powerful lasers might not necessarily yield the best results
  • Communication with molecular-level photo acceptors in the body is crucial
• Recommended treatment time:
  • 15 minutes, twice a day for serious tissue damage, acute inflammation, or long-term tissue damage
• Helps in growing healthier soft tissues
  • Increases chondroblast proliferation and type two cartilage in response to inflammation
• Kineon (use code BGLIFE to save 10%)

-Red light therapy compared to cold therapy…46:17

• Cold therapy might not be as effective as perceived, especially post-injury or inflammation
  • The RICE method (rest, ice, compression, elevation) may not be good advice
  • Kineon's article: “Icing vs. Red Light Therapy: The Ultimate Guide”
• Clinical trial-based evidence for the efficacy of light therapy over cryogenic treatment
• Cold therapy's potential neurological impacts might not directly aid in injury recovery or hypertrophy: “The effects of cold water immersion and active recovery on inflammation and cell stress responses in human skeletal muscle after resistance exercise”
• Cold therapy benefits
  • Glycemic variability
  • Conversion of white fat to brown fat
  • Reduced inflammatory markers
• Dosing and variabilities in results
  • Shorter, milder exposures to cold may be favorable to prolonged, extreme cold exposures

-Kineon's products in development that involve transcranial/intranasal photobiomodulation…55:17

• Brain modules and correlating dosing models
  • Biomarkers such as heart rate and HRV
  • Measuring behavior of neurological tissue from a metabolic standpoint
• Whoop
• High correlation between metabolic dysfunction and psychological disorders
  • Bipolar disorder
  • Schizophrenia
• Kineon uses photobiomodulation (PBM) — a non-invasive medical treatment that utilizes low-level light to stimulate cellular activity and promote healing — with neurofeedback to create more impactful devices
• Potential therapy and treatment for conditions like:
  • Dementia
  • Alzheimer's
  • Parkinson's
  • Major depressive disorder
  • Chronic anxiety
• Optimizing devices to enhance outcomes and quality of life
• Vielight (use code GREENFIELD to save 10%)
• Neuronic (use code BENG100 to save $100)
• WAVi device
• Sens.ai
• Electrical sensors for brain activity and machine learning for data interpretation
  • Compares data collection between electrical sensors and new laser/sensor technologies
• Emerging tools, like silicon photomultipliers for higher-resolution machine learning
  • More extensive machine learning applications than electrical sensors

-Good alternative to NSAIDs are Kineon therapy devices…1:03:55

• Negative effects of NSAIDs on health
• Kineon's article: “NSAIDS vs. Red Light Therapy”
• Tissue recovery, inflammation reduction, and pain relief
• Daily Kineon use for:
  • Tissue remodeling
  • Inflammation reduction
  • Pain relief
    • Best when used on bare skin
    • Blanching effect to improve wavelength penetration
• Reduction in muscle inflammatory markers among athletes for recovery
  • Decrease in C-reactive proteins and creatinine kinase levels
• Cost-effective design
  • Accessible for home use
  • Convenient
  • Wearable