Ben Greenfield [00:00:00]: My name is Ben Greenfield and on this episode of the Boundless Life podcast.

Tim Gray [00:00:04]: I got sent a device called Hume Health H U M E Health and they are the first at home body composition analyzer that is 95% accurate as a DEXA scan or inbody. It's very accurate because I did in body scan at Dr. Dom's health optimization lab in Germany when I was there, you know, two months ago. And he said, I can't believe how much stronger your leg muscles are than your upper body. Your legs are very strong. So I've got the measurement sheet of it and I compared it to that of the Hume Health and it is so close, it is ridiculous. And he's got the full on really expensive thing that you need to have in a clinic. I would say it's my favorite, let's say biohack, because it's quantifying of the year for sure.

Ben Greenfield [00:00:51]: Welcome to the Boundless Life with me, your host, Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist and nutritionist. And I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, fitness, longevity and beyond.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:12]: Tim Gray, he's back. How many times have you been on the show, man?

Tim Gray [00:01:16]: This must be my third or my fourth dude, I think.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:19]: Yeah, I don't know. I lose track. I'll put your other for those you want the shownotes. I'll put all of Tim's previous [email protected]/Texas Tim. BenGreenfieldLife.com/Texas Tim. That's not a Texas accent that you have, Tim.

Tim Gray [00:01:36]: Definitely not.

Ben Greenfield [00:01:39]: We'll work on that. Tim's coming to Texas this April. That's one of the reasons we want to hop on a call today and shoot the shit about all things biohacking and health and let you be a little fly on the wall because Tim is. He puts on these incredible biohacking conferences. The next one is Texas. Well, if you want to count Austin as Texas.

Tim Gray [00:02:02]: Well, it is kind of like an oasis in the middle of the desert, let's be honest. But no, it's April 12th and 13th in Austin. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:09]: Yeah. And Tim, just for people who didn't hear our previous episodes, I mean, I always just introduce you as like a prolific biohacker and health seeker type of guy from. From the UK so. Who also drinks tea, I guess. How do you describe yourself?

Tim Gray [00:02:28]: I would say into health optimization. Leading health optimization. I don't know these days, actually, I used to go with the UK. I used to go with the UK's leading biohacker. But to be honest, I've kind of evolved past the biohacker label into more health oriented.

Ben Greenfield [00:02:48]: Matt, I don't know about you, but it always annoys me when I'm doing a podcast and somebody introduces me as like, America's top biohacker. Or for you, UK's leading biohacker. I'm like, what does it mean to be a top biohacker? I never wrote that title for myself, never claimed that title. It seems like an odd way to introduce somebody because biohacking is just so wide ranging, right?

Tim Gray [00:03:12]: Yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah. And I guess a lot of people turn that in their nose because they don't understand what it is actually.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:18]: Yeah, exactly. It's like, I'm the world's top toaster repair man or fax machine consultant. I'll just claim that. So this is a regularly scheduled podcast. Seems like we hop on about once a year or so and talk about your deep immersion in the whole biohacking world. But you and I were together last month at the beautiful Ibiza, I think I have to say, with lisp, the Ibiza Six Senses. And your mouth was blue. And I thought you were just biohacking with methylene blue, as usual, as UK's leading biohacker.

Ben Greenfield [00:03:54]: And you actually kind of told me you've gone through some very interesting dental and teeth and jaw issues that I was kind of intrigued by because you, you have a very interesting approach to dental care. So tell me what actually happened.

Tim Gray [00:04:09]: Yeah, so basically I had a shoddy, shoddy dentistry work where he took a tooth out, it took part of the jawbone with it, which then the next two, the jaw started dying off. It had been necrosis bone in there. And then what happens is if you have a tooth taken out, the bone degenerates around where that tooth is because the bone's no longer needed there. So this is why biological dentistry actually does, for instance, instead of a root canal treated tooth, they pull the tooth and they put an immediate ceramic implant because then the bone osteo integrates around the ceramic implant. The thing is, when I had this done 10 or 12 years ago, this wasn't a biological dentist. He ripped out, took part of the jawbone and caused me many issues from my sinuses because the tooth for me goes slightly into the sinuses and the sinus membrane comes around it. So what happened was I'd had stem cell surgery with our friend Dr. Dominic Nischwitz in Germany, so had stem cells and a sinus lift surgery to Help the bone regrow, but it didn't grow.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:11]: And just by the way, he's an actual dental, he's an oral surgeon, but one who is more of a holistic natural practitioner. Right.

Tim Gray [00:05:20]: So yeah, so he was, he was a traditional dentist and then he realized that putting metal in the body and mercury and using fluoride and root canal treated teeth and all this stuff wasn't the best thing for health, but it was good for bites. And so he created a whole, whole 360 concept, he calls it the all in one concept. And that includes oral microbiome, oral health, gut bacteria, micronutrients, macronutrients, biocompatible materials that your body accepts and heals around, and low toxic chemicals as well. So the results that he gets are fantastic actually.

Ben Greenfield [00:05:59]: Right, so. So he's, so he's not, he's not shoddy.

Tim Gray [00:06:02]: No. And he's German.

Ben Greenfield [00:06:03]: Shoddy guy. Great.

Tim Gray [00:06:05]: Yeah, he's definitely not the shoddy guy. He's German. This, this, this dentist was way back 10 years, 10, 12 years ago, the other one. And so I went to Dom, he did some work on me. But the site, the bone was so degenerated from so many years of degeneration that he referred me onto a maxillofacial surgeon and biological dentist specialist in Hamburg. So he went and opened up inside the cheek about this much through to the sinuses, cleared out the dead bone and then placed an implant, a bone implant, about this much because the sinus, the bone above the sinus was gone and so it was causing me sinus and mouth issues. So they put the bone implant in and bolted it in, which now I have jaw, upper jawbone here. Yeah, in my, in my mouth.

Tim Gray [00:06:57]: So basically now I have enough bone to have two ceramic implants put in because my teeth, there was just gum there and no bone. So that's what I'd gone through. So it's a pretty major, actually a major surgery. It's not dental surgery, it's jaw surgery. And they literally cut you from here to here. If you saw the photos, you would not believe the size of the wound in, the size in the side of the mouth here. So yeah, so it's pretty, pretty major. And then that had been a month in when I saw you last.

Tim Gray [00:07:25]: But in fact, two days after Ibiza, it got infected unfortunately and I had to fly back to Germany and have the surgery done all over again. And because the gum didn't quite close up together and it got a little gap and then bacteria got in. So I've been through. Yeah, pretty Much three months now of, you know, quite intensive healing. But that means all the things that go with it, all the biohacking technologies and supplements and light therapy and stuff to go with it to speed up this healing now. So I get it over the edge.

Ben Greenfield [00:07:57]: Yeah, that's something I was thinking about. I actually was. I tweeted out some of my tips that I had shared with a client recently for healing faster after his surgery. I was talking about some pretty simple things from increased collagen and amino acid intake, vitamin C peptides like BPC157, which are perhaps a little bit more advanced, all the way to red light therapy, PEMF, hyperbaric, all these things that go above and beyond just rest and having your feet up. So I'm curious for you, having fulfilled the take, no offense, British stereotype of having teeth issues, what. What did you actually do to enhance healing from a from a biohacking perspective? I'm. I'm certain that some of this could apply to people who are interested in recovering faster, not just from something like a jaw surgery or tooth issue, but just in general for healing from surgery or from an injury like that.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:02]: What were some of your big wins?

Tim Gray [00:09:03]: Yeah. Okay, so the fundamentals are grounding, obviously. So making sure that you're grounding frequently so that you've got your flow of free electrons. That's the, for me, that one of the fundamentals, because you haven't got enough electrons, then your body isn't going to be using its energy correctly to heal. So there was actually a study done on cyclists. And I think, and don't quote me on the statistic, but it was around 25%, faster healing for the cyclists recovery than cyclists that weren't grounding.

Ben Greenfield [00:09:38]: And when you say the cyclists were grounding, were they literally just, you know, hippie style, barefoot outside, or laying on their back on the beach, or were they actually using these grounding mats, grounding sheets, grounding pillowcases, stuff like that?

Tim Gray [00:09:52]: So they were grounding actually grounding, but they also had grounding sleeping bags as well. So they slept grounded as well. So grounding, you know, obviously our bodies are electric and, you know, as time progresses, we're realizing how much more the body is electric. You know, even the book I can recommend, obviously, Body Electric for this and making sure that you have the correct or the optimal charge for your body in terms of the negative part of the energy process is grounding. So I found that to be actually last year, A4M, where I'm heading tomorrow, Vegas, I had live blood analysis done before and after grounding. And I've seen the studies on this where they have grounding before and after. And you can see the red blood cells are equidistant after grounding, but clumped together before. So it shows how blood flow for healing is significantly better when you are grounding.

Ben Greenfield [00:10:43]: Wow. Incredible. Wow. I've seen that data for pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, you know, PEMF therapy, which I sometimes describe as like grounding on steroids because you're just amplifying that same healing frequency from the planet Earth, but didn't know that you've seen those type of responses to red blood cell aggregation with grounding. Which makes sense from an electrical standpoint. Right. If you're increasing the charge, you're going to increase the separation between the cells which would then subsequently increase or decrease inflammation, improve blood flow, decrease resistance of blood as it travels through the body and increase oxygenation. So that's cool.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:23]: I mean that's simple. Anybody can do that.

Tim Gray [00:11:25]: And I have obviously I have a Samina bed which is grounded. So you're grounded when you're sleeping, which is perfect.

Ben Greenfield [00:11:33]: Oh, the Samina bed is grounded?

Tim Gray [00:11:36]: Yep. So they've got, instead of connected like silver laced bed sheets that the cheaper ones have, they've actually got like a magnetic earthing pad that goes under the topper and then it has a dirty electricity filter as well so that it filters out any of the dirty electricity in a household circuit, which is a bigger problem problem in London or the US in general because there's just so, there's so many, there's a lot of old wiring or there's a lot of obviously apartment, hundreds of apartments in one block. So there's a lot of dirty electricity.

Ben Greenfield [00:12:08]: Yeah, a lot, a lot of AC surges right through, through the electrical wiring system.

Tim Gray [00:12:12]: And in fact I've got a dirty electricity meter sent to me a few weeks ago to test my new apartment. I've got. And it was quite bad actually. And then I put the dirty electricity filters and I've got six of them around the house now and it measures almost non existent dirty electricity. And the funny thing is is when I started grounding when I first moved in with my bed sheets, I was buzzing, my head was buzzing and I was like, there's something not right in this house with the grounding. And then when I put the dirty electricity filters on that night, never had the buzzing problem again. So I took it off one night and I was buzzing and it's like literally my brain was super busy when there was dirty electricity being grounded. So having a dirty electricity filter, if you are using grounding bedsheets, or, you know, grounding mats, like I have here.

Tim Gray [00:12:59]: Dirty electricity filter is a must.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:01]: Yeah, yeah. I mean companies like Stetzer or Greenwave or Shielded Healing sell them and they're not expensive to have a dirty electricity filter. But I. So the Samina bed has it kind of built in.

Tim Gray [00:13:11]: Yeah. So you have interesting. You have the earthing pad magnetic. So it's magnetic grounding, one wire that goes out into the earth point of the socket with a dirty electricity filter on it. So it's fantastic. But you know, I found that the, the other filters that I got are actually what I needed because I think it was so high in dirty electricity in this apartment block. And there's must be 100 apartments in this block.

Ben Greenfield [00:13:32]: Yeah. I have an airplane hangar shed down in Viola, Idaho where I'm building a new home. In that shed is a large box on a wooden pallet that's been sitting in the hangar for like three months. And by the way, I don't have an airplane. The airplane hangar I'm actually using for goats and chickens and the like. But inside that box is a Samina bed that's just been waiting to go into my new bedroom in the Idaho home when I move in. And I don't even know probably as much as I should know about the Samina bed. Besides, it's very comfortable, it's grounded, it's all natural, you know, fabrics, et cetera.

Ben Greenfield [00:14:12]: But that's very interesting. I didn't know, I didn't know that about the dirty electricity component. I'm excited to sleep on that bed.

Tim Gray [00:14:18]: Oh man, it's amazing. It's amazing. Most people think sleep is just something you have to do, but in fact it's something that is non negotiable. And we're so underslept that when you're healing or even day to day life, if you are, if you are not sleeping enough and let's say seven and a half hours is, you know, probably the average, if you're not sleeping enough, then your body's not going to heal enough. And it's the best time you can have for your body to heal is why you sleep. And if you're grounded with the free electrons and you're rested and you're sleeping well and it's like a clean environment with clean air, you're going to heal significantly quicker. So this is really, you know, the first part of my healing protocol. And it may sound boring and simple, but you know, before bed for, for instance, I take antihistamine called Ketotifen.

Ben Greenfield [00:15:07]: Ketotifen. Why do you take that?

Tim Gray [00:15:09]: Just this one capsule, one milligram. And it's such a powerful antihistamine. Now bearing in mind I have the H1 and the H2 gene mutation, so I'm really bad with histamine levels, so my inflammation levels are quite high naturally. So an anti inflammatory for me such as Ketotifen is powerful and it's very sedative as well. So I found that every night I would take it 20 minutes before sleeping and then it would knock me out and I would sleep for nine hours and my healing would progress very, very quickly. Now I've also tested this on my mum and I call her mum Biohacker. She, she had post viral syndrome for quite a while where she's running out of energy, she couldn't walk to the shops, she was just absolutely fatigued, like post, you know, like long Covid and her sleep was all over the place. So I gave her this Ketotifen because she obviously has the H1 of the H, H1 mutation and said to her, right, you're going to take this every night for two weeks.

Tim Gray [00:16:08]: And within a week her sleep was so much better and she had dealt with the post viral within the week. Wow.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:17]: Wow. So Ketotifen, in terms of how powerful, I'm assuming it's a pharmaceutical first you.

Tim Gray [00:16:25]: Need a prescription, a pharmaceutical antihistamine. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:16:27]: Okay. Now if I've got, let's say some kind of common antihistamine over the counter that you'd take before you have a glass of wine or, or just what you get from the average CVS or Walgreens? Do you know how much more powerful something like a prescription like that is compared to the average thing in a person's pantry?

Tim Gray [00:16:45]: It's quite a lot more powerful in terms of effect for yes, but it works differently to the other antihistamines and I can't say exactly, but I did research it quite heavily before taking it and I had it recommended to me by a couple of practitioners actually. So. But it is a different antihistamine to the newer versions which are slightly less strong. So it's K E T O T I F E N, Ketotifen.

Ben Greenfield [00:17:12]: Okay, I'm writing that down and I'll put information about that in the show notes. Now, you said you have this gene. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that, that H1, H2 gene, but I'm curious not only about that gene, but whether you think an antihistamine like ketofen would help someone even if they didn't have that genetic issue. Does that make sense?

Tim Gray [00:17:32]: Yeah. So histamine, everyone deals with histamine differently, one depending on their genes. So H1 or H2, and there's specific gene names for those, but one is the H1 receptor and one is for the H2 receptor. Now you can also have histamine issues from gut problems and stressed liver, and you can also have too many histamine foods on top of that. So I've got the H1 and the H2 gene mutation, which means I really don't break down histamine very well. I've had stressed liver for years. Again, this is because of my MTHFR gene and COMTI status. And also when I first got into biohacking, I had been on three months of antibiotics and it was ciprofloxacin, which is the evil black block box mitochondria killing antibiotics, which destroyed me.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:29]: Kind of bad for your tendons too.

Tim Gray [00:18:32]: Really bad. Really bad, actually. And I realized when I started getting tendinitis is when I stopped it, but it destroyed me. And that's when I realized I started getting histamine issues. So if I had avocado, I would be in bed with a migraine the next day, or if I had red wine, my nose would get stuffy immediately. Or aged steak. And you know how we both love a good aged steak.

Ben Greenfield [00:18:54]: Yeah, Geez. Can't. Can't have leftovers at Tim's house.

Tim Gray [00:18:58]: Yeah, exactly. Or bananas. So all of the things that you know are great foods, I consider great foods. Avocado, banana, aged steak, not so much the red wine, but I do from time to time. I started getting really bad headaches from it, migraines in fact. And my brother and my mum both have a history of lifelong migraines. So what I did add in, actually there's a supplement, DAO, which I'm sure you're familiar with. And DAO, you can get it from peas or you can get it from kidneys, specifically porcine kidneys.

Tim Gray [00:19:30]: And this DAO enzyme breaks down histamine. And so I take half a natural DAO enzyme in the morning and in the evening, which helps me break down my histamine much better. But taking the Ketotifen before bed, it literally is like a steam train going through and dealing with histamine, which then really reduces inflammation, it causes sedation effect, helps you sleep better and reduces inflammation. So you don't get the same histamine issues. However, if you haven't got the gene variations of H1 or H2, it will still work as a sedative with a sedative effect, but just not as powerful from what I have experienced with people.

Ben Greenfield [00:20:14]: Yeah. Now a lot of people will try something like Nyquil from the drugstore for sleep, but that seems to cause a lot of issues for people. Restlessness and even restless leg issues. Deleterious impacts on sleep architecture. I'm not a huge fan of that as a sleep age sleep aid. This catatifen, I assume is different than something like Nyquil?

Tim Gray [00:20:36]: Yeah, I mean, again, it's in the antihistamine category, but it's a different drug. And Ketotifen is actually one of the. I think it was one of the earlier ones before the newer versions. And there's two specific antihistamine pharmaceutical types, one beginning with C and one beginning with L. But Ketotifen is the earlier type. So yeah, I found it to be fantastic. So that really helped me sleep and recover much quicker. I also actually, before I move on, I'm just going to say anyone that drinks red wine or has steak or avocado and gets a stuffy nose and starts feeling lethargic or actually has a sudden bout of IBS or bad digestion, I would get a gene test done and look to see if you have the H1 or the H2 or both gene variations.

Tim Gray [00:21:25]: Because there are things that you can do to support your body so that you don't get the same inflammation.

Ben Greenfield [00:21:29]: Yeah. Or sardines or avocados or beef jerky or just about any kind of like aged, cured, mildly processed, salted type of ingredient that a lot of people in the health world eat, they don't feel well and they don't realize that they might be wired up to have a histaminergic reaction to those foods.

Tim Gray [00:21:47]: Yeah, exactly. And this is for sensitive immune systems or people with, you know, like multiple intolerances. Sometimes it can just be down to the levels of histamine that they have in their body because it's a, I think. Do they call it an excitogen or something or other like that, which is basically always stimulating the body. So the body's always in a fight or flight stage. If your histamine is super high, because histamine comes as a reaction to damage or inflammation and things like that. So if your levels are naturally high because of the genes or because of your diet or lifestyle or whatever, it will affect you quite heavily.

Tim Gray [00:22:23]: So this has been a, that was a big win for me. But also before bed, I would take 2.4 IU of growth hormones before bed as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:31]: Oh, you mean like the injectable peptides like Ipamorelin or something like that?

Tim Gray [00:22:37]: No, no, the proper stuff. Somatropin from Pfizer.

Ben Greenfield [00:22:41]: Like, I say the proper stuff like I'm not messing around. I use the real stuff. So what do you call it again?

Tim Gray [00:22:46]: Somatropin is the, is the name of it. And it's, so depending on your source of growth hormone, is either 91 or 92 amino acids chained together and folded on themselves like this. So it's a very, very complicated, let's say peptide compared to traditional peptides like BPC157 and things. So it. It really has a great effect for fat burning, which is not why I take it, because I do not have a fat problem. But it's also stimulates growth and repair of tissue very, very well.

Tim Gray [00:23:18]: So, human growth hormones before bed and then lots of collagen.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:23]: Lots of collagen. Not. You didn't use the collagen as a sleep aid. That was more to enhance repair.

Tim Gray [00:23:27]: Yeah, that was to help. And that was to help healing along with the growth hormones.

Ben Greenfield [00:23:31]: Yeah. When you talk about lots of collagen, you know, I'm super into collagen and essential amino acids. I think you know that and just go through scoops and scoops of the stuff. Like a tub will last like a week at our house because both my wife and I just mainline the collagen. I even realized this. I was reading a book, I believe it was Daniel Wallerstorfer just wrote a new book called unlock your genes (The Power of Our Genes). I don't even think it's out yet. But in that book, he even highlights how when you consume collagen orally, it is the breakdown of collagen peptides in the bloodstream that sends a message to your brain that then thinks that your actual muscles are breaking down and it upregulates muscle protein synthesis and repair based on the fact that you ate the collagen.

Ben Greenfield [00:24:16]: And a lot of people think the collagen is just serving as like a building block for muscles and for repair, but it's actually a signaling molecule that then that, that tricks the brain into thinking that it's being. The body's being broken down. So it upregulates synthesis. Isn't that interesting?

Tim Gray [00:24:31]: It's amazing. I mean, this is actually. I've got some content going out over the next couple of weeks about peptides because I mean, I think peptides are the future of medicine and how that ties into collagen because obviously collagen peptides and all the, obviously the aminos that you have within it. And I think if you look at peptides in their rawest format or in say the easiest description, it's amino acids chained together that are messages for the body to tell it to do different things, which is why it works so well compared to traditional medicine. And, and I think, you know, for me, collagen fits into that. So if you're doing growth hormones, you're doing BPC 157 for healing repair, you're doing TB 500, for instance. Collagen is an absolute no brainer, along with some good aminos such as, you know, the kion ones to name, you know, the best probably.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:22]: Oh, thanks. Blushing.

Tim Gray [00:25:27]: You know, and you know, I think you're giving yourself the building blocks, but also giving the body the signals it needs to repair along with the peptides and the collagen. So it's interesting, interesting to hear that on collagen specifically as well as the peptides.

Ben Greenfield [00:25:40]: Yeah, yeah. And people might be wondering about dosage. I say about 20 to 40 grams. I mean, I'm for people who are repairing, you know, what a young high school football player who wants to put on muscle. I'm usually recommending around 20 grams of essential amino acids a day and 20 to 40 grams of collagen in addition to the other protein that you're consuming throughout the day. And a lot of people will get a tub of collagen and not realize a scoop sometimes is just like 5 grams. So you kind of gotta, you gotta eat a lot of the stuff.

Tim Gray [00:26:12]: Yeah, I do, I do 40 grams a day minimum. And I generally put 20 grams into a warm but not hot coffee for obvious reasons. And I put it into any yogurt that I have as well. And so I have cherry fish based collagen and I have beef based collagen as well. So I generally have 40 grams a day minimum.

Ben Greenfield [00:26:33]: I don't know if I told you this story, but the person who first turned me on to high dose collagen saw me outside a coffee shop in Malibu. We hadn't seen each other for maybe like six months. And he walks up and we were shooting the shit and talking about health. And he said, Ben, this one modification to my diet that I've made has absolutely transformed my recovery, my propensity to injury. He was playing a lot of Frisbee golf. He's a very active person. And I said, what is it? And he said, I've switched to 40 grams of collagen a day, every day, day in, day out. The biggest game changer for me for years.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:14]: And you know who that was? Godfather of the health industry. Mark Sisson. That's the guy who told me this and turned me onto it. And then ever since then, I've been into collagen. At the time, I was already doing essential amino acids, but man, yeah, collagen is a game changer.

Tim Gray [00:27:28]: I love Mark. I aspire to be like Mark. When, when I'm a little bit older, it's like, what a. What a legend. I'm. I'm very happy, actually. He's going to be speaking at the Health Optimisation Summit.

Tim Gray [00:27:37]: Austin.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:38]: Are you kidding me? You got Mark Sisson to come? Yep.

Tim Gray [00:27:41]: Yes, sir.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:41]: Oh, dude, just. I want to get back into the healing. But who. Who are some other. Who are some other biggies, who you might be able to tease us with, who are going to be there?

Tim Gray [00:27:49]: Oh, crikey. There's such a list of people. We've got Stephanie Estima. Stephanie Estima. Gary Brecka, this dude called Ben Greenfield. Don't know if you've heard of him.

Ben Greenfield [00:27:59]: Gotta be there. I got. I gotta go where the cool kids are going. Mark Sisson, obviously you just said as well. Wow. Okay.

Tim Gray [00:28:06]: Well, it's. Oh, Zach. Zach Bush.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:11]: Oh, yeah, he's great.

Tim Gray [00:28:12]: Speaking to Stephen Gundry again. He's just emailed me today to say can. Can I come along and speak? Which would be. Be nice to have in there again.

Ben Greenfield [00:28:21]: And. And by the way, for people, listen, that's April in Austin. I'll put a [email protected]/ TexasTim but it's called the Health Optimisation Summit, so, dude, sounds like a good lineup.

Tim Gray [00:28:31]: Yeah. Oh, Max Lugavere. I'm just looking at the list now. Max Lugavere, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, who I hope everyone has heard of Brian Sanders. Calley Means, Dr. Dominik Nischwitz,, the biological dentist I was telling you about. Amy Hornaman, Dr.

Tim Gray [00:28:47]: Amy Hornaman. Also very interesting one that I think that your audience will love. And I'm not sure if you know her, but her name's Claudia Muehlenweg. She's a German lady that specializes in improving eyesight through lifestyle and nutrition. And she's had some fantastic, very fantastic results as well. So she's a real interesting one. I met her at JJ Virgin's event Mindshare a few months ago, and. Yeah, and she was saying how a couple of the big podcasts she's been on.

Tim Gray [00:29:19]: It was the most popular episode that they had had of 2023. So it's like, actually I looked into her. It's fantastic that you can reverse eyes. And I'm just currently wearing reading glasses, so.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:30]: Man. Okay, cool. It'll be a party. I'm excited. I'm excited. Okay, so. And that's April. For those of you listening in, in Austin, they're gonna have to fly to London this time.

Ben Greenfield [00:29:39]: You're still gonna have the one in London in September, right?

Tim Gray [00:29:41]: Yeah, yeah. So Austin, April 12th and 13th is the. Let's call it the Paleo Revival. So it's the OGs of Paleo. It's the original gang that used to go to the big Paleo show in Austin before, unfortunately, it was no more. So I wanted to get the original gang back together again, make it fun. Loads of activities, loads of cool food brands, loads of the best speakers, and get everyone back together again. So I'm really excited to be.

Tim Gray [00:30:08]: Be getting the tribe back together again.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:09]: So, yeah, yeah, A lot of people might not who are listening might not even really remember the old Paleo effects. For years it was like the go to health and fitness and healthy living and biohacking conference in the US and then it just kind of lost steam several years ago. But, yeah, for years that was the place to go to meet everybody, to party, to catch up on everything, to see all the latest cool shit. And so. So that's cool that you're resurrecting that. I dig it. All right, we better jump back into some of these hacks. So anything else that you did that really moved the dial from a surgery recovery standpoint?

Tim Gray [00:30:45]: Yeah. So I reached out to James Carroll, who is the founder of Thor. Thor Lasers. I don't know if you know the Novo Thor. It's the big.

Ben Greenfield [00:30:55]: Oh, yeah, I've heard of that one. Yeah.

Tim Gray [00:30:57]: They have the medically approved laser devices for surgeries and clinics and things like that. He spoke to Congress about biophotomodulation and, you know, I would say it's one of the leading brands in the world. I reach. Reached out to him and just said, James, this is what we've got going on with healing in my mouth. What do you recommend? And he said, I'm going to send you our laser clinic laser. And it's got something called the Lollipop, which is like a mouth device. I'm not going to do the action, but it's like a mouth device with. With laser technology in it.

Tim Gray [00:31:26]: You put it in your mouth for one minute at a time. So, yeah, so I was using the laser three times a day pretty much the whole time, which was fantastic. And I noticed, you know, the tissue sped up quite significantly after he started using it. So that was on the inside. And also I've got a red light rising. Who's the brand in the UK for red lights? Target lamp, which is near infrared.

Ben Greenfield [00:31:51]: Now, some people might be wondering, Tim, with the laser thing, they can heat the tissue. It's obviously a medical device. Is this just something special for you, or can people actually get laser devices at home that are handheld, powerful devices to help heal tissue?

Tim Gray [00:32:08]: Well, not all laser heats depending on the laser, and typically the ones when you go into a. Like for instance, the one that they use for snoring treatment, which is, you know, laser that actually heats and semi burns and stimulates collagen production, which is, stops the snoring from tightening the tissues, is actually a very similar device to what they use for vagina rejuvenation. Probably Amy Killen, the type of thing that Amy Killen would use on her clients. So there's that type of laser. Also there's lasers that are less, let's say less invasive, less heating and just help heal. So I've got a handheld device here, actually, which is. Which doesn't heat.

Tim Gray [00:32:50]: And the. The Thor laser didn't heat either. But if you do go into, like a biological dentist clinic, they do actually have the one that heats. For instance, I had a cold sore come up on my lips a year ago and they do the laser treatment on it, which is quite hot, but it kills it off immediately and it hasn't come back ever since.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:09]: Have you seen this little one? I've done a few videos about it. It's like a wraparound device called a Kineon Move Plus, it's LED and laser. So it's red light and laser, but you just wrap it around a joint and you can walk around, you can hang around your. I don't know if you could use it on your jaw, but it's kind of a cool little device.

Tim Gray [00:33:26]: Yeah, I actually have one and I didn't feel like the application for my face was quite as appropriate. I've actually got it essentially literally right behind me down here, as you can probably see it on the side. But I really like the Kineon laser, actually. I lent it to my brother who had hip surgery and he found it really helped recovery, actually. So I'm a fan of the Kineon. Actually did some content about it a few weeks ago as well. I like those guys very much that actually they will be at the summit in Austin.

Ben Greenfield [00:33:57]: Okay, cool. Great. So laser combined with red light, you've got the grounding and the earthing piece. You got hormones, collagen, amino acids, and antihistamine before sleep at night, along with that growth hormone peptide. I saw you with methylene blue in your mouth. Was that just for the infection?

Tim Gray [00:34:17]: Yeah, so I was using it to keep the wound clean, which obviously I didn't get it clean enough, but methylene blue in the mouth. But actually, what. What I formulated last week was a nose spray to help repair the sinus membrane of DMSO. Methylene blue and colloidal silver and then just squirt up. And that's been fantastic for. For healing my sinuses, actually.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:42]: And so you get it until you get a blue nosebleed.

Tim Gray [00:34:45]: Yeah. I was walking along earlier on to an appointment and I did it and walking along and I was just like, actually cleared out all the gunk and I'm walking along with the massive blue booger stringing down my face. So it's. It's powerful stuff.

Ben Greenfield [00:34:59]: I wonder what kind of effect that would have for people who have, you know, like. Like the marcons or mold in the sinus cavities. Because methylene blue has a little bit of antiviral, antifungal, antibacterial activity to it, especially if you combine. So you put DMSO silver and the methylene blue all in, like, a nasal spray bottle and you just spray it in your nose.

Tim Gray [00:35:17]: Yep, yep, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:35:20]: And you obviously have to get liquid. Liquid methylene blue for this.

Tim Gray [00:35:23]: Yeah, yeah. So I've got the drops I get shipped from South Africa. But DMSO is very easy. Obviously I did it diluted pretty well. Colloidal silver was good for watering it down, but I found this would be. Been actually fantastic. I use the methylene blue drops, put it on my tongue, and then put it onto the wound as well. And obviously, methylene blue being fantastic for obviously, as you say, antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral.

Tim Gray [00:35:50]: But also it donates an electron for the electron transport chain. So it really helps promote healing as well. So it's a fantastic drug, actually. And I use it 30 days at a time, and then I have 30 days off.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:04]: Well, that's a great idea. You know, I'm headed to Vegas, you know, the, you know, Satan's playground for mold and EMF and everything else for this, A4M event, same as you are. And I've got that silver, the sovereign silver. Nasal spray that I often travel with. But I also have this company, BioBlue. They make a methylene blue with NAD and some different minerals and things in it. I could probably just put a few dropper pulls of that into my silver nasal spray and huff that in Vegas.

Tim Gray [00:36:33]: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:36:36]: And from what I understand, methylene blue, you know, especially because in that environment it would, I would imagine, penetrate neural tissue in addition to the sinus cavity. It has some pretty impressive effects from a cognitive standpoint. So do you actually feel a little bit of a pick me up cognitively when you spray it into the nose?

Tim Gray [00:36:53]: I do. I mean, each drop is only 500 mcg versus the capsules that I have when I'm traveling are 20 milligrams. And I take 20 milligrams a day, minimum. So I find that those to be the 20mg is fantastic for mental clarity. Really fantastic. But when it's 500mg, mcg, sorry. And then it's diluted, you're getting a very small amount. So it works very well for the antibacterial antiviral, but not for the cognitive effects.

Tim Gray [00:37:22]: It's just not high enough dose. But the capsules, which I'll bring toA4M with me if you want some, they're the best methylene blue capsules that I have tried to date.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:33]: Yeah, okay. I'll have to try them. That same company I was telling you about, BioBlue, they do a capsule as well. They do a liquid and a capsule. So, yeah, we can compare notes. I'll probably have some with me there in Vegas anyways, for this, for those of you wondering about Vegas, they do this thing called a longevity fest every year. The American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine, also a fantastic event.

Ben Greenfield [00:37:52]: So that's where Tim and I are going to be next week. What else did you throw at your body there, Tim? Anything in the realm of kind of like quantification, measuring, I don't know, HRV or body comp or anything along those lines.

Tim Gray [00:38:08]: Well, that's a great shout. I mean, obviously I'm tracking my sleep, my heart rate variability, my resting heart rate all the time. And I did notice when I had the infection after I saw you in Ibiza, that and this was an early sign for me, my heart rate variability tanked. And now I'm a sympathetic type, not a parasympathetic type. So my heart rate variability is generally in the lower side anyway, so average of about 48, maximum of a 110. But I had noticed that my average went down to 15 before my infection. And then when I had surgery, the day of surgery it was almost non existent. And then the next day, once the antibiotics kicked in and the surgery had happened, actually my heart rate variability went back to normal again almost within 24 hours.

Tim Gray [00:38:54]: So I knew that it had dealt with the major thing. So obviously I've been tracking that all the way through and I think, you know, respecting my sleep, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, was the most important thing for me of all because of the repair process. So quantifying my sleep and my average was 94 out of 100 through the first two weeks after surgery, giving my body the best chance to integrate the bone and heal. I also, it's funny you mentioned about the, the body composition because I love the gym and I'm an ectomorph as, as we've discussed before and it's very hard for me to put weight on. I have to work really hard and I have to eat a lot of food.

Ben Greenfield [00:39:34]: Ectomorph, by the way, for people unfamiliar with that phrase, skinny, hard gainer, naturally lean, etc.

Tim Gray [00:39:40]: Yeah. And so I was really concerned about losing muscle mass from not being. Because I'm not allowed to work out, I'm not allowed to lift stuff, I'm only allowed to rest and stretch. So I was really worried about losing muscle mass and not so much the weight problem. And so I've got, actually I got sent a device called Hume Health H U M E Health. And they are the first at home body composition analyzer that is 95% accurate as a DEXA scan or inbody. So it's absolutely fantastic. I thought it was just going to be another scale, but no.

Tim Gray [00:40:22]: So you've got the handle which pulls up on a string for the sensors. You stand on it, it gives you a weight and then it's got an app that then breaks down your muscle composition per muscle, per muscle on the diagram as well. I can actually show you it because it's so, so good. So I've obviously been tracking this over the time of the surgery to make sure I haven't lost much and it's actually been great. I've hardly lost any muscle just from stretching and doing a little bit of EMS at home.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:55]: Yeah. Electrical Muscle Stimulation, you mean?

Tim Gray [00:40:58]: Yeah, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:40:59]: And the whom you have it there with you?

Tim Gray [00:41:01]: Well, that's the app. Yeah. So you can see.

Ben Greenfield [00:41:04]: Let's see. Okay. Oh, wow. Interesting. So it's not, I mean, unlike a DEXA, it's not going to do bone density. But you're getting pretty accurate measurements, I'm assuming, via bioelectrical impedance of muscle distribution.

Tim Gray [00:41:17]: Yeah, exactly. And so you can track your trends. So for instance, one thing that I really liked about it, and it's fantastic that it served me during the healing process because I didn't obviously want to lose muscle mass. But what I think is now coming out of surgery and healing, going into the gym, I now know that I'm not just putting on muscle. I know where I'm putting on the muscle and I know what I'm doing in the gym is actually working for the goals that I actually want for my physique. And so. So it's actually really great. And says, yeah, I've been doing upper body a bit too much and not enough for the lower half.

Tim Gray [00:41:49]: Like, I think a lot of guys, it's like, actually, no, this is how I'm balancing my body. I've gone hard on this for a month now. I'm going hard on this and I actually see how my body adjusts. And in fact, the one thing that it's very accurate because I did in body scan, Dr. Dom's health optimization lab in Germany when I was there, you know, two months ago, and he said, I can't believe how much stronger your leg muscles are than your upper body. Like your legs are very strong. So I've got the measurement sheet of it and I compared it to that of the Hume Health and it is so close, it is ridiculous. And he's got the full on really expensive thing that you need to have in a clinic.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:26]: I'm assuming this is less expensive than something like an in body scan. I mean, are we talking hundreds, thousands, you know?

Tim Gray [00:42:32]: Yeah, a few hundred bucks.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:33]: Wow. Interesting. Wow. I mean, I have one of those old school Withings body analyzers, but this sounds like it's far, far more insightful when it comes to the actual distribution of muscle. So I'm going to bookmark that one. That's interesting. Will they be at the, at the Expo? Do you know?

Tim Gray [00:42:49]: We're in talks with them for the uk. I don't know about the US all right, got them.

Ben Greenfield [00:42:53]: But Hume.

Tim Gray [00:42:55]: Yes. And I would say it's my favorite, actually. My favorite, let's say Biohack, because it's quantifying of the year for sure. And I didn't expect it to be. I just thought it was just going to be another scale.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:08]: Yeah. Are you doing anything from a blood testing, hormone testing, quantification of biomarker standpoint right now? Why they're related to research for the Expo or after this, this surgery.

Tim Gray [00:43:22]: So I do anyway, I have a test every 14 days regardless, these days.

Ben Greenfield [00:43:27]: Wow, that's. That's pretty frequent.

Tim Gray [00:43:29]: Perks of the job. I check my testosterone every two weeks because I had tried TRT, which worked very, very well for me. But then my natural, my sperm count came down, motility came down, and, you know, I. I felt like it was a bit too high. So I came down off of my TRT and. And then started using kisspeptin and HCG peptides and also one of the anabolic peptides from LVLUP. The guys at LVLUP.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:02]: Oh, we're using their, their Botanabolic.

Tim Gray [00:44:05]: Exactly. This is the one.

Ben Greenfield [00:44:06]: That one's great. I mean, for people who don't want to get on testosterone, I think that's one of the better kind of shotgun formulas for male testosterone enhancement without impairment of fertility that's out there. Before you move on to enclomiphene and HCG and some of the more difficult to get items. That's just an oral capsule. It's fantastic.

Tim Gray [00:44:25]: That's the beautiful thing about LVLUP actually, that they are capsules of peptides and you don't have to inject them like a lot of the other ones. And so I think they're making peptides much more readily accessible for people that, you know, don't want to inject themselves. So. So, yeah, so I went from my testosterone levels were in the UK scale. I think it's different to the German to the American one, but it was. My levels were 34 to 38. On a scale for my age, that should be around 28. So when I came off of the testosterone and I came off hard just with using some Clomid to help recover and a little bit of HCG, my levels went down to 8.

Tim Gray [00:45:07]: So this is. I was testing this bearing mind, every two weeks, my levels came down to 8 and then within two weeks it was back up to 19. So, like without any testosterone. So. And now it sits at 29. So doing it every two weeks. Obviously, testosterone is great. LH is great, FSH is great.

Tim Gray [00:45:27]: But for me, post surgery, it's been ESR, which I'll talk about a device for that in a second. And then crp. And CRP is more, you know, acute infection, good marker. So you want to have a nice low level. Mine, mine, after surgery was before surgery was quite high, in the 30s. And then after surgery it's now 0.6, showing that there's no acute infection, which is fantastic.

Ben Greenfield [00:45:55]: Actually, real, real quick, before you jump into ESR, I think that's. That's what. Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate.

Tim Gray [00:46:01]: Exactly, exactly.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:02]: All right. I remember some of college, the testosterone piece. Just to hit pause on that real quick, the strategy that you use, were you just taking botanybolic or anything else?

Tim Gray [00:46:14]: Yeah, so I was taking Kisspeptin.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:16]: And mixing that with HCG as like an injectable peptide.

Tim Gray [00:46:21]: Yeah, injectable peptide.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:22]: Okay.

Tim Gray [00:46:24]: And the level up anabolic capsule. That's it. Three of them.

Ben Greenfield [00:46:30]: Wow. Wow. Good, good case study. Wow.

Tim Gray [00:46:32]: I mean, the thing is, the funny thing is, is to go into details, and I imagine the majority of your audience are male, maybe, but testicle size shrunk, you know, quite significantly from a normal size down to a very small size when I was on TRT. And then as I came off of it, over the space of the two weeks, they came back up to normal again. And I. I had tested it without any assistance at all, and my levels stayed low and my body didn't kick back in. But with the right peptides, it did very quickly. So it's really fantastic to observe and then also feel how different you are as a man with optimal testosterone levels, because with lower levels, you just no drive, not much motivation, a little bit more emotional and not caring about building so much. But as soon as you get your testosterone levels up, that's it. Build, build, build, build, build, build, build.

Tim Gray [00:47:23]: I want to build this stuff.

Ben Greenfield [00:47:24]: I want to, you know, dopaminergic hardwiring for forward progress is one thing that adequate will give you for sure. Maybe that's why I got to walk on a treadmill during the podcast. I don't know. And Tim's biohacking experimentation project mom will be happy that there's a higher likelihood she'll have little grandkids running around someday.

Tim Gray [00:47:43]: Yeah, this is the next goal.

Ben Greenfield [00:47:47]: So this ESR thing, tell me about that.

Tim Gray [00:47:50]: So ESR is a blood measure of inflammation, essentially. And what it is, it's about the speed that your blood settles. I think it's the red blood cells, specifically how fast they settle. And it's something to do with the minerals and inflammation levels within the blood. So it's a very. It's a good measure of more chronic inflammation versus crp, which is acute inflammation. And so I've always. I've always seen these two measures in my test.

Tim Gray [00:48:21]: And it's something I've always asked for because inflammation is important to me. And I recently found a brand called COR Health. COR Health. And it's a little device you've got at home that looks like a Nintendo Switch and you get test strips, you do your fingerprint test, you put it onto the test so it looks like a kind of a Covid, you know, home test kit. But then you put it into this device and it reads the settle rate ESR. Yeah, exactly. It basically reads that and uploads it from the scanner that it has in there and emails you the results in real time and you have it in 20 minutes, your ESR. Now the thing is, the guy that runs it, Bob, I had a really in depth call with him, several of them actually, about ESR and CRP. And I was asking him why he doesn't CRP and, and all the benefits for ESR.

Tim Gray [00:49:20]: Now the interesting thing was he told me his levels for ESR and he said they could be a little bit more optimal. And I said to him, do you ever ground? Do you ever get your shoes off and stand in the garden? Do you sleep grounded?

Ben Greenfield [00:49:33]: And he's like, no, I'm coming full circle here.

Tim Gray [00:49:36]: Yeah. And he said, no. I said, okay. And he's a very good techie guy that's been worked for Apple and all these things for years and he's really, really up there in terms of technology and medical side of things. And I said to him, I challenge you to do some grounding and then retest it. And he came back to, he texted me like a week ago and he said, Tim, I can't believe it. This is the most profound shift in ESR that I've seen just from grounding. And I really wouldn't mind looking at the message now just so I can read it verbatim.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:08]: Now just to clarify real quick, he didn't go out and buy Samina bed and a pmf, he just went outside barefoot or something like that?

Tim Gray [00:50:15]: No, no, just outside. I'll tell you exactly what you said here. Hi, Tim, I did a grounding experiment. Wow. I walked barefoot on dirt for 20 minutes on November 20th and then measured ESR. Cut my ESR by more than half. Two days later, it's still alone, mind blown.

Ben Greenfield [00:50:32]: That's incredible. Of course he might have just stepped in some aspirin, but you know, more likely he was earthed. Wow, that's incredible.

Tim Gray [00:50:40]: But from someone that has, has an ESR testing company and has tested many, many times, has never seen that sort of a shift before. So anyways, I've got one, obviously I've got one at home and I'm using it quite frequently, so it's it's really nice to see inflammation levels come down. So at home test, he's going to be at the Health Optimisation Summit in Austin and you'll be able to get your ESR tested in real time and check out the devices there as well.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:06]: That's incredible. Wow. Okay, so COR Health, I am often getting random items sent to me. I think years ago they sent me a prototype of that unit and I had trouble getting to work. I think they were still experimenting with it, whatever. But that's good to hear that they've actually developed it to that standpoint. So I'm definitely going to try that when I'm down there in Texas. Anything else from a technology standpoint that you're excited about as far as stuff that people might be able to try at the Expo or things that you've seen kind of up and coming, or supplements, beverages, anything that's kind of new out there?

Tim Gray [00:51:40]: I mean, I think the newest supplement out there that I love is actually the LVLUP guys, and I know I've spoken about them a fair bit, but I think peptides really are the future of medicine. So I think this is one definitely.

Ben Greenfield [00:51:52]: To look out for orally bioavailable peptides without the needles.

Tim Gray [00:51:57]: Another brand that I'm testing out at the moment that I've really enjoyed is something called the WAV Watch. I'm not sure if you've heard of it before.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:04]: Like WAV?

Tim Gray [00:52:05]: Yeah, WAV Watch. Now, it's looks like a smartwatch and yet it's not a smartwatch. It's think of it as sound healing or frequency medicine. And you put the watch on, you set what state you want to be in, you know, whether it's healing or recovery or whatever. Whatever. And it plays the sound, you can just about hear it, but it's actually sending the vibration into your wrist.

Ben Greenfield [00:52:31]: Wait, is this different than, like. Because there's a thing of the Apollo, right, that I've talked about before. It's been around for years, little haptic sensation that you wear on your wrist, your ankle. It doesn't make sounds. This is different. Is it using a sound frequency?

Tim Gray [00:52:44]: Yeah. So the Apollo works on vibration and treats you like music would, but it's under the conscious level of awareness, so you don't actually hear or feel it that much. You can turn it up so you do feel it. Whereas the WAV Watch is more about the sound frequency itself. And obviously that comes with vibration. So, you know, I like both devices, although I like the WAV Watch more because you actually get to experience it a little bit more now.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:11]: I don't understand. Are you hearing the sound through earPods or headphones or just emanating from the watch?

Tim Gray [00:53:18]: Yeah, you just hear it a little bit on your wrist like this? Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:53:20]: Huh. I mean, if I was, let's say I was wearing it at a dinner party, would other people be able to hear it? Or is this like a, more of like a subconscious, you know, a high pitched sound that just me and my dog would hear?

Tim Gray [00:53:30]: Just about you hear it? Yeah. And it's quite, it's quite soothing. It's really quite nice. And there's so many different settings in it as well, you can pick up. I mean, you know, I don't know if you. Well, if you've talked about frequency medicine or bioresonance or whatnot much on the podcast, but I mean, the body is, as we know, electric, as we said earlier on, and everything has a frequency. And, you know, this is why some music can calm us, some music can make us cry, some music can make us angry. You know, all of this, it's state changing.

Tim Gray [00:53:58]: And when we look at what it does to us on a cellular level, it really has a radical shift in our, in our chemistry just from different sound types. And so electric medicine and frequency medicine, I think, you know, they are evolving very quickly with more longevity, research funding going into and big pharma losing their grip somewhat. So I think devices like the WAV watch, for instance, is one of my favorite picks of the now just because I think it's really advancing natural healing with how the body actually works.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:33]: And does it still. This has been my complaint with some of these quantification devices that you wear on your wrist is you got to have that. And then a watch also, does it tell the time or show the date or do normal things that a watch might do?

Tim Gray [00:54:45]: Yeah, it does. Yeah, it tells the time as well. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:48]: Okay.

Tim Gray [00:54:49]: Yeah, it's quite interesting. And there's no wifi on it or any of that stuff, so it's, it's low EMF tests. Fine.

Ben Greenfield [00:54:56]: I got another question for you. It's just been on my mind because it seems like every time I'm traveling, you're where I'm at. But then you've been at like five other places between when I saw you last. Like, you're a real world warrior. You're obviously, you know, not just a road warrior locally, but all over the planet. Anything related to sleep or jet lag, hacking, obviously most of my audience knows, keep the room cold, wear blue light blocking glasses at night, go outside ground, eat at the proper arrival time in your destination, et cetera. But anything that's a new technology or new supplement or thing that you've found that really helps support you staying healthy when you travel.

Tim Gray [00:55:36]: I really like the BrainTap device because wherever I am I know I'm safe and my fight or flight switch is off and I can relax. So when I'm on a flight, BrainTap is one of my, one of my go to favorites.

Ben Greenfield [00:55:53]: You wear it on a flight?

Tim Gray [00:55:55]: Yeah. And I think the thing is, although it's got bluetooth on it, I think we under rate how stimulated we are and how we need to calm our nervous systems down. And BrainTap is one of those devices that really helps, well, almost hypnotize you out of a wound up state into a calm state.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:19]: And by the way Tim, real quick, the BrainTap, that's light in your ears and light in your eyes and sound via like a visor, like a headset that you wear.

Tim Gray [00:56:28]: Exactly, yeah, exactly. I've got one down here, funny enough, but, but what I like about them is my background is psychology and hypnotherapy and so what I love about Patrick Porter's work and I think you've actually got an audio track on there from memory.

Ben Greenfield [00:56:43]: On BrainTap, I've recorded a few different prayer tracks, scripture tracks. I have like a whole Christian section on that BrainTap device for people who want to meditate and enhance their prayer time or their devotion or scripture memorization with it. So yeah, I recorded some of those several years ago.

Tim Gray [00:57:02]: Yeah. So I think calming the nervous system is, you know, you can do that through meditation and reflection. But also the Ketotifen is fantastic for that as well. And so I tested various different sleeping tablets. So I'd get on a plane, I would sleep and I would be ready for the next time zone with, you know, less impact to my circadian rhythm. But I found that actually having the Ketotifen has been so fantastic because it just means that I get deeper sleep and my nervous system is more calm wherever I may be. Whereas the sleeping tablets I found that made me groggy for hours and hours and hours afterwards and just never felt quite right from them. So while I'm not a pharmaceutical first approach, I am very happy utilizing them appropriately.

Ben Greenfield [00:57:44]: Tim, obviously we could talk for hours about all this stuff and that's what I like about the show, the Health Optimisation Summit is I show up and it's not dozens, but I think now over 100 different things you get to try, people you get to listen to, obviously, as we discussed a great speaker lineup. So folks, if you're listening and you're able to make it to Austin in April, definitely go. And if you want more kind of random hodgepodge, grab bag of biohacking tips, listen to my other podcasts with Tim too. I'll put them all @BenGreenfieldLife.com/TexasTim we're coming to Austin in April, Tim. dude, you're a wealth of knowledge as usual. It's always, always interesting to hear what's going on out there on the cutting edge.

Tim Gray [00:58:30]: Yeah. Thanks, man. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:31]: All right. Well folks, Tim Gray, there he is again. UK's leading biohacker. I go into live down that title. And he's not only UK's leading biohacker, but now we also know that he's fertile and doesn't eat avocados. So BenGreenfieldLife.com/TexasTim for the show Notes Tim, thanks so much man.

Tim Gray [00:58:52]: Thanks for having me, man.

Ben Greenfield [00:58:54]: To discover even more tips, tricks, hacks and content to become the most complete, boundless version of you, visit BenGreenfieldLife.com in compliance with the FTC guidelines, please assume the following about links and posts on this site. Most of the links going to products are often affiliate links, of which I receive a small commission from sales of certain items. But the price is the same for you, and sometimes I even get to share a unique and somewhat significant discount with you. In some cases, I might also be an investor in a company I mentioned. I'm the founder, for example, of Kion LLC, the makers of Kion branded supplements and products, which I talk about quite a bit. Regardless of the relationship, if I post or talk about an affiliate a link to a product, it is indeed something I personally use, support and with full authenticity and transparency recommend. In good conscience, I personally vet each and every product that I talk about. My first priority is providing valuable information and resources to you that help you positively optimize your mind, body and spirit.

Ben Greenfield [01:00:03]: And I'll only ever link to products or resources, affiliate or otherwise, that fit within this purpose. So there's your fancy legal disclaimer.