Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.
A few months ago, I interviewed today's podcast guest – a former professional triathlete and now one of the most respected icons in health and fitness – in one of our most popular episodes of the year, entitled “Primal Endurance: How To Escape Chronic Cardio & Carbohydrate Dependency & Become A Fat Burning Beast.“
His name is Mark Sisson, and Mark just released a brand new, excellent book entitled: “The Keto Reset Diet: Reboot Your Metabolism in 21 Days and Burn Fat Forever“. In today's podcast episode, we take a deep, deep dive into principles, practices and concepts you've probably never before heard when it comes to ketosis.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-How Mark took the ketogenic diet, which has a reputation for being relatively restrictive, and instead presents a unique two-step, scientifically validated approach for going keto the right way…[7:40]
-Why Mark highly recommends you spend 21 days low-carb before switching to 6 weeks of ketosis…[11:30]
-How long it takes to get back into ketosis after a “carb binge”…[31:00]
-How something called “myogens” actually allows you to gain lean muscle mass while on a ketogenic diet…[32:30]
-What Mark thinks about some people saying that ketosis might diminish metabolic flexibility in some people by promoting physiological insulin resistance…[40:30]
-Whether a cup of coffee is technically “breaking” a fast…[48:50]
-How ketosis can reprogram your genes and increase longevity…[54:55]
-Mark's favorite keto breakfast, favorite keto lunch and favorite keto dinner…[63:10]
-What Mark eats before ultimate frisbee…[67:40]
-Mark's take on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and why he personally uses it…[69:40]
-And much more…
Resources from this episode:
My previous articles and podcasts on ketosis:
- 374: How To Maximize Ketosis, Should You Have Sex Before Competition, Do Power Poses Really Work & More
- How To Use Ketones For Longevity, How I Personally Use Ketone Salts & A New Chemical-Free, Clean Way To Get Into Ketosis
- Ketogenic Pizza, Ketogenic Toast, Ketogenic Cornflakes, High Fat Coffee & More: The Ketogenic Kitchen Cookbook
- 368: Building Muscle & Testosterone On A Ketogenic Diet, Food Combining, Psychedelic Experimentation, Natural Depression Remedies & More
- Cyclic Ketosis, “Thinkitating”, Bad-Ass Meditation, Morning Routines & More With Quest Nutrition Founder Tom Bilyeu
- Fast-Tracking Your Body To Ketosis, Biohacking Hypoxic Performance, Marijuana Legalization, Constipation & More With JP Sears
- A $17,000 Whole Body Healing Machine, Fish Oil Overdoses From Giant Steelhead, Eating Bones, Killing Tumors With Ketosis & More
- Six-Egg Breakfasts, Ketosis For Bodybuilders, Resetting Weed Tolerance, Kratom Experimentation & Much More With The Mindpump Guys
- Which Ketone Supplement Works Best: Ketone Salts vs. Ketone Esters With Dr. Dominic D’Agostino
- Elephant-Poop Coffee, Chocolate Ceremonies, Cold H2O Training, Holotropic Breathing, Nootropics, Ketosis, Meditation, Fasting & More: The Kevin Rose Podcast
- 362: Donald Trump’s Exercise Routine, Altitude Vs. Heat Training, Can Kids Take Smart Drugs, Can Ketosis Cause Muscle Damage & More
- Could This Ketosis-Based Elixir Hold The Key To Weight Loss, World Record Performances, Brain Healing and More
- Everything You Need To Know About How To Use Amino Acids For Muscle Gain, Appetite Control, Injury Repair, Ketosis And More
- Four New, Cutting-Edge Ways To Easily Shift Your Body Into Fat-Burning Mode & Ketosis
- Amino Acids, BCAA’s, EAA’s, Ketosis, Bonking & More With 41 Time Ironman Triathlete Dr. David Minkoff
- How Breath-Holding, Blood-Doping, Shark-Chasing, Free-Diving & Ketosis Can Activate Your Body’s Most Primal Reflex
- 10 Things Your Pee Can Tell You About Your Body: Taking A Deep Dive Into Urinalysis, Dehydration, Ketosis, pH & More
- 322: The Truth About “Starvation Mode”, Does Ketosis Work For Crossfit, Measuring HRV During Exercise & More
- Everything You’ve Always Wanted To Know About Ketosis But Were Afraid To Ask
- Ketosis Dangers: How To Maximize the Nutrient Density of a Low Carb Diet
- A Deep Dive Into Ketosis: How Navy Seals, Extreme Athletes & Busy Executives Can Enhance Physical and Mental Performance With The Secret Weapon of Ketone Fuel
- Combining Low Carb And Extreme Exercise – The Official Results Of The Great Ketogenic Ironman Experiment
- The Official “Ask Me Anything About Ketosis & Ironman” Premium Podcast with Ben Greenfield
- 245: What Are The Best Fat Loss Supplements, Controlling Blood Sugar During Ketosis, Natural Asthma Remedies and More
- The Great Ketogenic Ironman Experiment – Can You Go Low-Carb And Be A Fast Endurance Athlete Without Destroying Your Body
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-Human Charger – Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/humancharger and use the code BEN20 for 20% off.
-Kion Lean – Go GetKion.com to purchase Kion Lean – the best supplement for longevity and fat loss!
-Oak – Meditation & Breathing – Go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/oak now to download the app, completely FREE.
Do you have questions, comments or feedback for me or Mark about today’s episode? Leave your thoughts below and be sure to check out Mark’s new book “The Keto Reset Diet“.
24 Responses
Hey Ben, please help. I am really trying to wrap my head around what you and Mark were saying about myogens. Are you guys saying that having carb up days will make the average keto guy lose muscle mass? I am currently taking the feast famine approach after being keto for quite some time. The way I am doing it is one 24-hour fast day, followed by 4 days of strict keto, followed by a carb up day, then finally a simple LCHF day (though not necessarily keto LCHF). Am I going to lose muscle because of this carb up day? OR is that not what you guys were saying? I don’t know why I just don’t get it, I usually have no trouble understanding this stuff. Thanks so much!
I don’t follow a strict ketogenic diet, but I do eat a good amount of fat and protein and less carbs.
I recently tried ketone esters from HVMN. I’ve tried it 3 times now. Always in the morning after having a cup of black coffee and then taking a 45 minute spin class. Using blood strips I’ll usually be at 0.5 mmol/L before I drink the ketone esters. 30-45 minutes later I’ll start the 45 min intense spin class, and when I measure my blood ketones levels again, immediately after class, they have read 1.1 or 1.2 mmol/L.
What could be the reason they don’t get any higher? And although I feel more clear headed, I’m not performing better in spin class after drinking the esters.
Hi Ben,
How do you relate this to this recent study on examine https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb… where low carb does not show any benefit for weight loss versus other diets?
Read this Kion article that was just published on this: https://getkion.com/articles/body/fat-loss-body/s…
I started Keto on Dec 12 and Jumped right in BEFORE reading any of Marks POV on easing in. Also beein doing IF Overningt till 2pm ish each day (14-17 hours) which was easy bc I dont often desire breakfast. I felt good from the start. Little tired in the begening but I wasnt coming from a High carb diet. It was moderate, and mostly decent shit like yams and quinoa and if I had bread it was sporouted grains. After listening to Marks podcasts im wondering if if should have done it differently for the best overall balance and health, or maybe it doesnt matter since I feel great and droped from 175 to 159 in just under two months. Curious to hear others opionions.
To Ben,
I am a nationally recognized expert on bioidentical hormone therapies. I am a professor in both the George Washington University’s Metabolic Medicine Institute fellowship as well as the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine fellowship. It was sad to see fans of Mark Sisson throw stones as Mark admitted to his medical need for testosterone therapy. I heard Mark report that he was taking 100mg weekly and i have seen many good doctors attempt to use testosterone without proper training and simply get it wrong. I would be happy to have a conversation with you and Mark to discuss this if you are interested.
Gary Huber, D.O., AOBEM,
Low testosterone is a serious health risk. Testosterone levels in men of ALL ages from 20 year olds to 80 year olds in this country have been dropping at an alarming rate. This is due to increasing consumption of plastic and BPA. Increased sugar and processed food intake, High stress (cortisol) and lack of sleep as well as other unseen factors. If testosterone is low then it needs to be replaced. No one listening to this podcast has any idea what Mark’s testosterone levels are and none of us are in a position to judge if his actions are prudent. To call Mark a fraud is to point the finger at yourself as you are casting judgement with “0” information. Taking a “normal” dose of testosterone to restore NORMAL levels is not the same as doping or cheating. It does NOT give you super powers or big muscles or lean abs. Normalizing testosterone is simply restoring what is natural. Plenty of guys take testosterone and eat crap and lay on the couch and get fat.
If you truly wish to learn what testosterone is and what it does then talk with an accredited integrative doctor such as myself or go read a book. Marks admission that he needs medical care opens the door for others to seek similar help without feeling like a “cheater”. This is a MEDICAL issue not a Monday morning quarterback issue.
Hi Ben and Happy New Yew Year,
Your final question to Mark was a bold and honest one that caught me by surprise and now I’m feeling a bit duped by Sisson and all of his glorious claims. In your opinion, how much of Mark’s physique, energy and stamina, etc is attributable to his lifestyle or his testosterone injections. Feels like Chris Carmichael and Lance Armstrong all over again.
Thanks,
Rich.
same here
Interested in understanding why you’d feel duped. Mark isn’t in competition, and doesn’t have the requirements that USAC, USAT, or USAT&F require. The reference to Carmichael and Lance intrigues me
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your interest in my opinions.
As an age group triathlete, I look to the best who’s doing it the right way and Chris and lance made sense to me.
Buying their books, training manuals and even visiting Chris’ training center in Colorado Springs. Yes I was naive in believing that hard, smart training within their system would provide me with tremendous gains in speed, strength and recovery. The concealing of the systematic cheating through an intricate and deceitful doping system left me feeling duped.
While Mark’s not racing in sanctioned events, he is selling holding himself to the general public as well as his customers that his way is “the way,” and he has the shirtless pics, with his fitness programs as evidence that they work. You too can be in great shape, have tons of energy, play tons of ultimate Frisbee, just go on my diet-Paleo (book), Primal Blueprint (book), Keto (book), Primal Endurance (book).
How do you think sales would be if he led and first disclosed: “I regularly and have for years take Testosterone.”
Duped!
To Mark's credit, he has not only been open about that on my own platform, but also on his platform and on other podcasts. He's not hiding anything.
Hi, Ben — just listened to this podcast a second time to find the reference to Satchin Panda’s detailed explanation as to why coffee breaks the fast — but it’s not here — only the general explanation that drinking coffee starts the digestion process. I did a search of Mark’s book on Amazon but I can’t get the Appendix reference without buying the book. Please save me hours of listening to Rhonda Patrick’s and other Satchin Panda interviews to find the specific reference Mark says is in the Appendix of his book!
BTW the big bonus of looking for this stuff was finding your recap of the numerous podcasts you’ve done on all things ketosis related — THANKS for the excellent and convenient summary. I’ve bookmarked it and will be revisiting for sure!
Hi there,
Don’t you think that being in a low carb diet is one of the reason, besides aging, that could potentially lower your free testosterone levels?
sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091182 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3573976
Hey Ben, I have two copies of the apoe 4 gene. Would you recommend this dietary approach? I hear mixed things about apoe 4. Some people recommend keto for it and others recommend 50% carbs.
Thanks!
I’d like to hear the response to this too…. I’m an APOE4 too
I discuss APOE4 here: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/376-holi…
I discuss APOE4 here: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/376-holi…
If an NBA player like Stephen Curry hired you, would you recommend a low carb keto style diet? How would you determine if such as diet is best for him?
Totally depends. I'd test the heck out of him for genetics, blood, urine, saliva, etc. then customize like this: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/nutritio…
I don't personally, but here are a few directories that may help you find the type of doctor you're looking for. If you can't find a cardiologist, I think someone in one of these directories can at least point you in the right direction.
• FunctionalMedicine.org – Find a Practitioner, including MDs, DC, ND, etc.
• aihm.org/find – to find an integrative health practitioner
• acatoday.org – for a good chiropractor – Use their "Find a Doctor" tool to use their directory
• Naturopathic.org – Use their "Find a Doctor" tool to use their directory
• Undoctoredhealth.com – A good, relatively new directory of trusted practitioners
• HealthProfs.com – Another decent directory
• PrimalDocs.com – Good docs who treat based on an ancestral medicine approach
• PaleoPhysiciansNetwork.com – Paleo "friendly" physicians
Where does Mark get the idea that keto helps you build muscle “even easier”?
There are a lot of sketchy claims in here.
Writing a book does not make someone an expert on the subject
How do you go keto without a gallbladder?