Ben’s New Dietary Protocol, Vegetables Vs. Viruses, Whether Viruses Really Exist & Much More With Dr. Thomas Cowan.

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My guest on today's show, Dr. Tom Cowan, is a well-known alternative medicine doctor, author, and speaker, with a common-sense, holistic approach to health and wellness. Originally, Dr. Tom Cowan and I planned to talk about his lovely and nourishing vegetable powders, but this podcast took an entirely different turn towards the topic of whether viruses really exist, and I think you'll be quite surprised at the answer!

Dr. Cowan has given countless lectures and workshops throughout the U.S. on a variety of subjects in health and medicine and is the author of six best-selling books, including The Contagion Myth/The Truth About Contagion co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell; Cancer and the New Biology of Water; Human Heart, Cosmic Heart; Vaccines, Autoimmunity and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness; The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell; and The Fourfold Path to Healing (with Sally Fallon and Jaimen McMillan).

From 1985 until 2019, Dr. Tom Cowan had a general-medical practice, first in upstate New York, then for 17 years in Peterborough, N.H., and for 17 years in San Francisco, until his recent retirement from active practice. He was a founding board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation and continues to serve as its vice president. In the past five years, he launched two businesses along with his wife and two sons. The first, Dr. Cowan’s Garden, offers high-quality vegetable powders and kitchen staples; the second, Dr. Tom Cowan, LLC distributes information, hosts his popular webinar series, and offers many of the products he has used personally and in his practice.

Dr. Tom Cowan attended Duke University, graduating in 1977 Summa Cum Laude with a degree in biology. He then served as a Peace Corps volunteer in Swaziland, Africa, from 1977 to 1980, teaching gardening in a secondary school. It was in Swaziland where he encountered the work of Weston A. Price and Rudolf Steiner, two of the greatest influences on his career. After the Peace Corps, he attended medical school in his home state of Michigan at the Michigan State College of Human Medicine, graduating in 1984.

Dr. Cowan now lives with his wife, Lynda, on rural farmland in Upstate New York. He has three children, one stepson, and six thriving grandchildren. He is an avid gardener and recently added several sheep and barn kittens to his growing farmstead.

In addition to this most recent conversation, Dr. Cowan has also joined me in the past for multiple podcast episodes, including:

In this discussion with Dr. Thomas Cowan, you'll discover:

Breaking The Spell: The Scientific Evidence for Ending The COVID Delusion

-Why there's no such thing as a “pathogenic virus”…08:07

-A study that claimed casein protein causes cancer…23:48

cowan-dr-tom-breaking-the-spell-PDF-for-digital-reading

-What to make of virus symptoms if there are no viruses?…43:57

  • You don't need to know the answer to say it doesn't exist
  • Disease is a “cleansing process” that has been misinterpreted
  • Electromagnetic communication between humans
  • The Invisible Rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg

-The virus discussion summarized…55:18


  • To prove a virus exists, it must be isolated

-Why Dr. Cowan was compelled to surrender his medical license…1:03:00

  • Broke California law by giving “unauthorized” treatment of cancer
  • “Unsanctioned” advice about Covid

-Ben's bastardized carnivore diet…1:08:33

-And much more!…

Upcoming Events:

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Thomas Cowan:

– Podcasts:

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Have a question or comment for me or Dr. Thomas Cowan? Leave a comment below and one of us will reply!


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99 thoughts on “Ben’s New Dietary Protocol, Vegetables Vs. Viruses, Whether Viruses Really Exist & Much More With Dr. Thomas Cowan.

  1. Te says:

    Aren’t seed oils inflammatory (basically, poison)?

  2. Terry says:

    Excellent. Thank you.

  3. buttercup says:

    PERFECTLY SAID RANDOM!!! thank you

  4. Sideshow Bob says:

    Thanks for another amazing Dr. Cowan interview!

    If you don’t like Cowan, find another episode. They don’t all appeal equally to everyone.

  5. Photonic says:

    You should do an entire podcast asking Dr. Cowan about similar topics. I was disappointed to hear that you didn’t intend to talk to him about viruses. That should be a planned podcast, not an accidental one! But please interview him about his ideas that ribosomes and cellular receptors are actually ARTEFACTS and not actual cellular structures! This is a very fascinating idea and you should have an entire podcast with him about such matters including his thoughts on carnivore diets, plant anti-nutrients like lectins, dr gundry’s work etc.

    1. Daniel says:

      Tom’s Bitchute channel features regular videos of him covering various topics:

      https://www.bitchute.com/channel/drtomcowan/

  6. Milos says:

    Andrew Kaufmann talks about the same thing in Rooster in River of Rats – Koch’s postulates. Still on youtube last time I checked, surprised Ben never heard of this before.

  7. Beth says:

    Cowan’s claim that 5G caused a mass number of cases of COVID is so easily disproved that it is literally child’s play. He’s delusional. Google “coronavirus cases in India”. Then Google “5G in India”. There is NO 5G in India!

    Ben – I love your podcasts, but I feel like this one was a massive waste of my time. He didn’t present interesting ideas. He presented gross misconceptions based on flimsy and easily disproved personal ideologies.

    1. Milos says:

      He never ‘claimed’ that. He was giving an example.
      Not surprised the damage control team is in full action

      1. Bill says:

        I agree, damage control’s best hope is to catch those who weren’t paying attention to details.

    2. Thank you for this honest feedback Beth!

    3. Shelly Wade says:

      How do I put this nicely? I live in india on and off with my husband and there are more 10X towers there than in midtown Manhattan. I can send photos and videos if you’d like from both Chennai and Pondicherry… Delhi as well as any other city you request. I was very sick there, as I’m really sensitive to EMFs and mold and was affect by both. I had the same CIRS + EMF symptoms I had in NYC. Came to the mountains in Virginia and was fine. My husband is still there and having heart palps and all the usual symptoms. I can assure you, you’ve never seen the amount of towers anywhere in the US, as there are in India.

  8. Helen Morris says:

    The reason why most people are finding it difficult to cure HSV 1 or 2 is because they believe in medical reports, drugs and medical treatments which are not helpful to cure HSV and haven’t proved any sign of helping. Natural roots/herbs are the best remedy which can easily eradicate herpes forever. I never believed it until I was helped and cured of my 5 years of herpes with natural herbal medicines from Dr Uchegbu. Where other medical prescribed drugs and treatments failed, Dr Uchegbu natural herbs helped save me from Genital herpes permanently and I am so grateful for this. You can also get help from this great and powerful African Herbalist Dr Uchegbu or you can also contact Dr Uchegbu through his email : druchegbuherbalcure.com.

  9. erik says:

    My main question for Dr. Cowan is how is genetic engineering possible using viruses?

    For example, CAR-T therapy takes a “knocked-out” HIV virus, genetically engineers the DNA of the virus to contain a wanted sequence of DNA, and then takes all of that and “infects” the cancer patient to help attack cancerous B cells.

    I’d like to hear his response to that.

    1. Laura Morrison says:

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    2. Sandra says:

      Dr Cowan and Dr Kaufman are the most factual speakers I have listened to. They reference everything, explain it and give brilliant analogies. When they don’t know something, they’re very upfront and honest about it too.

  10. Marc says:

    41:38 was the most entertaining moment, who needs to give their immune system a boost when viruses don’t exist? Seriously
    https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege-and-jon-mcalice/some-comments-on-the-contagion-myth

  11. Nic says:

    Obviously, the vaccines are working great and everyone that’s avoided it has been dropping dead like flies…

    Thanks for putting this out there. Hilarious and sad to see everyone demanding censorship because another idea conflicts with their deeply held beliefs. So much for open-mindedness.

  12. J says:

    I apologize, I have no choice but to laugh while reading some of the comments about this episode with Dr. Cowan. We live in a time of seemingly endless conflict and anger with those who do not have the same point of views.. Why these days people have to solve everything by attacking others, or by threatening Other, why there are people who use threats as their only tool to make their point of view known,

    Simply thinking that most other people agree with you can make you more hostile toward those with different beliefs.

    So the real danger in the opinion echo chambers comes from feeling that most people agree with us, which makes us more angry and hostile towards those who not share our views. I have been following Ben for the past 5 years now, and I think that he is one of the most genuine and authentic person in the Fitness and health industry, and I have learned something in every single podcast. I have not been so crazy about some of his opinions or points of views, others I have found fascinating that I’ve even tried them., but I don’t break my head attacking Ben if one of his guests brings ideas or theories or practices that I don’t agree with, I just switch to another episode and go on with my life. If anyone has evidences to prove that Dr. Cowan is wrong, then please present the evidences, or write a book explaining the findings as Dr. Cowan himself did. i enjoyed this episode very much, in fact i listened to it twice, I ordered the book, and as soon as I read it, I will draw my own conclusions according to my understanding, i will do my own research according to the references given, and then I will decide if what Dr Cowan says makes the least bit of sense. Keep up the good Work Ben… Greetings from a humble fan

    1. Thank you J! That seems like a very reasonable to way to go about something when you disagree or are not sure of its veracity 💯👏

  13. Martha Jecorick says:

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  14. chad says:

    So by that ‘logic’ since there are no scientific, peer reviewed papers proving the existence of God, God doesn’t exist?

    1. Rfed says:

      Correct. Scientifically, God does not exist. This is very hard for Christians to admit, just like, Scientifically Evolution does not exist. The only scientific evidence of God or evolution is that EVERYTHING WE KNOW OF CAME FROM SOMETHING BEFORE IT. Just ask 100 people in a church to define God and you will get 100 answers, same with evolution. They will however agree that something was here before they were. For many God is how they connect to the mystery of life that is greater than themselves, which means no matter what you define as your God, that God is very real.

  15. D1617 says:

    You need to get on Dr Sam Bailey!

  16. Quack says:

    5G really messed this guy up

  17. Frank Schlarmann says:

    Sorry Ben, it was a fun ride, but I am going to cancel my podcast subscription right after hearing the interview with Mr. Cowan. Working as a nurse, seeing HEALTHY people dying and talking to their loved ones, I am done with you. And you know why. I’m tired arguing. Goodbye!

    1. yvette gaugh says:

      And I work with world renowned doctors and nurses (from New York) who know what’s really going on. There were no more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 , people get the flu and people get pneumonia and die all the time , stop drinking from the propaganda koolaid. Yes there are nurses and doctors who are brainwashed in this space because they can’t step outside of their proverbial box. Thank you Ben for your interviews and dialogue on this very important subject. PS I lost my sons healthy 25 year olds best friend to the JAB!!! Houston we have a problem!!

      1. Mike says:

        Yes, it’s all a conspiracy and part of the “Deep State.”

        Here is a link to Electron Microscope Images of viruses, you know, the ones Doctor Cowan says don’t exist.
        https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=electron+images+of+viruses&atb=v1-1&iax=images&ia=images

        These are probably all fakes, just like the Moon landing. Both were probably done in Hollywood at a Special Effects Studio.

    2. Flow.the.money says:

      You’re right, the answer to anything that challenges the official narrative or thought is to plug your head in a hole ostrich style.

    3. Shelly Mihalic says:

      I agree. This is very irresponsible and disturbing.

    4. Milos says:

      Try proving using Koch’s postulates.

    5. Zahid says:

      subscription? WTF? Its free downloads not even a subscription required.
      They really need to hire better pro hecklers.

      1. paula says:

        love it..zahid!!!

  18. Jay Campbell says:

    Ben, I love you.

    This was your most profound podcast ever. Dr Cowan is so far out in front of Allopathic Medicine it’s not even fair.

    There are many walking the path of light who will benefit from this discussion.

    Just as those living in dissonance will reject it.

    To each his own as GOD benefits from every single emanation (individual souls) of his overall creation.

    To the Golden Age and the Architecting of the New Earth!

  19. Carl says:

    Thought provoking as ever. Many thanks. Dr Cowan has a brilliant brain….always a pleasure to hear what he has been working on. As for the Angels he speaks of…am pretty sure he has been guided by Lorna Byrne. Check her out. Would be an interesting podcast guest!

  20. Ellamental says:

    If it weren’t so disturbing that people are so easily duped into believing viruses don’t exist, it would be hilarious.
    Ben, you need to care more about your credibility.

  21. Kristian says:

    Thanks Ben. This was one of the most fascinating and eye-opening chats in a long time. Dr Cowan has certainly thrown down many statements that we are all going to have to look into. But the fact he has written statements from the biggest officials around the Earth, makes it even more worthwhile to follow this rabbit hole and see where it leads.

    I’m looking forward to reading his books now to find out more.

    Thanks for an enlightening interview and for setting some wrong ideas right.

  22. Mary says:

    Thank you for a fascinating discussion, one of the best I heard here. I live in Japan where many of these ideas are common sense. Japanese still have high respect for their food, nature, and the gifts of the entire world, and eating is an important part of daily activities. So is the idea of “disease” – it’s a collapse of balance. Most people I know turned to healthy food and refused to be vaccinated believing every disease has a cure in nature, the traditional idea that nature heals whatever it creates. It’s inspiring to see there are people who fight for the right to express non-mainstream ideas and science and to give us all alternative ways of thinking about life and health, and eventually about our own responsibility to gain knowledge and a satisfactory lifestyle.

    Thank you.

  23. Zachery Conrad says:

    That was a thought-provoking episode, challenging some long-held beliefs about viruses. I thought it was excellent and it would be great to see a talk between Dr Cowan and Dr Zac Bush, and perhaps even Peter McCullough. Together they can discuss these ideas and we can all learn more from the discussion.
    I’m keeping an open mind on all of this, but can confirm that this episode has challenged my thoughts, which I think is a great thing.
    Thanks Ben.

  24. Interesting and “possibly” factual., but essentially Sounds like skepticism of a plethora of other experts saying otherwise. Fact: people are dying from it, it’s highly transferable, it’s also costing us millions of dollars. Bring a solution if your bring criticism. I have to go back to work with people that are infected.

    1. Don’t matter says:

      They aren’t infected because viruses don’t exist to this bozo

  25. Phillip says:

    I’m 100% with the others trashing Ben for this episode’s veering into flat earth virology.

    UNSUBSCRIBE

    1. Pascale says:

      Doesn’t feel to me like Ben or anyone on his team double checked anything. And why on earth did Ben not ask the vaccine question? Why the fuck are vaccines working if what this crazy person is saying is true.

      Here is an article that guided me through my research.
      https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege-and-jon-mcalice/some-comments-on-the-contagion-myth

      Not sure what Ben is trying to do here. Sell vegetable powder? I think it’s possible to sell supplements without giving a platform to a liar. Manipulating dates and interpreting studies however you want is being a liar. Which is what Mr. Cowan does.

      I’m so sad and confused after fact checking this episode. “Boundless” has been a reference for me and Ben’s work has tremendously helped me over the past 5 years. I have the red light, the sauna, I’ve bought supplements. Ben has influenced how I move, I breath, I eat.

      But, yesterday after listening to this episode (and at first being curious about it and even talking to my family about viruses and the methods used for isolating them) I did my research and was devastated. I felt like a looser. I cried. I apologized to my family, ashamed. I told them that I had gotten the information from a source I could no longer trust. That’s this podcast.

      It feels like I have to break up with you Ben. Sorry. I just can’t thrust you anymore.

      1. LOL says:

        Can’t thrust him anymore?!?!

        LOL

  26. Marissa says:

    This podcast has taken a turn in a direction that no longer feels helpful to human health. I started listening in 2018 and have learned so much more about the human body and how to maximize it. The past few months have all been theory and too “woowoo”… (And this comes from a herbalist, Yogi, holistic healer.)

    These concepts coming out aren’t helpful just stirring and barely thought provoking. I have smh too many times the past few pods.

    Ben, where are you going with all this??

    1. I'm just presenting interesting ideas. Happy to host an alternate opinion if you have a suggestion. If you actually listened to the episode, you will hear that the original podcast topic was not even on viruses.

      1. Christopher says:

        I think that it takes courage, an open mind, and a beautiful person (on the inside) to present interesting/alternative ideas. Ben, you are all those things. People throw stones, and banish anything outside their ‘hive mind’. Audience members that express anger or spew negative statements are better to formulate their confusion via thoughtful questions or analysis of the content. There are many good studies about ‘What really makes you ill’ etc. I think the work of Tom Cowan is evidence he is not doing this to be “woo woo”. All I can say is I’ve taken advice from holistic, herbalist Yogi’s before, and ended up very sick, because they understand things at a surface level, and are always ‘ego-ing’ (as a verb), and are very closed-minded as a general rule of thumb. Thank-you Ben, and thank-you Dr. Cowan.

    2. Mac Simms says:

      I try and listen to alternative views and am a big fan of a more natural approach to medicine. However, I could not follow any logical approach to the perspective presented by Dr. Cowan that included information or data required by a rationale scientific method. I don’t think this interview met the basic mission to live life to the fullest, experience deep meaning, purpose, happiness, fulfillment, and connection, explore and enjoy every nook and cranny of God’s great creation, and discover how to achieve full optimization of mind, body, and spirit with boundless energy. It would be interesting to hear Dr. Peter Attia’s perspective on Dr. Cowan’s assertions.

      1. I beg to differ. Especially towards the end of the episode, you get plenty of tips on how to stay healthy, along with how to savor God's creation of vegetables. ;)

        1. Rob says:

          Well I guess Im going with Athletic Greens until I get my degree in Genetics and Virology. Fun stuff Ben but was really looking forward to your bastardized Carnivore diet. I understand that you had to follow uo on that tangient however.
          Peace

  27. Mark says:

    And… I’m out. No more podcast, no more purchases through affiliate links, and no more Kion purchases.

    Ben, this podcast is irresponsible at best and harmful at worst. Discussing test results on the emerging edges of science and giving air time” to opposing points of view is one thing, but your audience trusts you to vet curate informative, substantiated content. Who are you interviewing next week, Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy?

  28. Mark says:

    And… I’m out. No more podcast, no more purchases through affiliate links, and no more Kion purchases.

    Ben, this podcast is irresponsible at best and harmful at worst. Discussing test results on the emerging edges of science and giving air time” to opposing points of view is one thing, but your audience trusts you to vet curate informative, substantiated content. Who are you interviewing next week, Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy?

    1. Dan Dowling says:

      Ben’s audience are grown adults who are responsible for their own opinions and can listen to new ideas without having to go to coloring-book therapy.

      So tired of this censorship/cancel culture…

      This audience member would love to listen to an Andrew Wakefield podcast, btw, Ben.

      1. Anton says:

        @Dan Dowling

        I’m right there with you! It’s pretty lame all these so called “open minded” people so quick to threaten and run from anything that’s outside their bubble.

      2. paula says:

        perfectly said dan..THANK YOU

  29. Anthony Guastella says:

    Any time he comes on, he changes my view of reality.

  30. Kingdom Rush says:

    A diet rich in vegetables and fruits can lower blood pressure, reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke, prevent some types of cancer, lower risk of eye and digestive problems, and have a positive effect upon blood sugar, which can help keep appetite in check.

  31. Truth teller says:

    Another Covid quack being promoted smh

    Ben used to have really informative health and wellness guests who seemed to ant to help people an not push bs propaganda

    A doctor who lost is license for being a menace to society ..

    Greenfield is drifting into cult an commune ideology especially with his mention of going to Idaho for his “freedoms”

    1. Mark says:

      Totally agreed, since Brock left he took a turn for the worse. I mean he sold “energy bracelets” before, but all those “scientists” now. Anti vacc, quantum healing and all this spiritual bullshit makes me sometimes speechless. I even reported this podcast to Apple.

      1. buttercup says:

        oh no…the perfect person are we!!! wear your mask to your deathbed!!!

    2. Ken says:

      Ben is 1000x worse than Joe Rogan bc Ben actually promotes this stuff simply to help sell his online crap. Folks, he’s smart like Anna Delvey was…stay Away!!

    3. Mike says:

      “Going to Idaho for his freedoms” ? Uh-oh. I didn’t hear that. That’s very disturbing.

  32. Drifter says:

    Thanks for doing this podcast. I had heard bits and pieces of this elsewhere so it is good to have a more complete discussion. I think the two big problems with Dr. Cowen’s argument is that while he seems to make a good case that” viral theory” is at best incomplete ( I am not familiar with the details so I can’t really say for sure) his argument 1) is missing a meaningful “so what” and 2) viral theory seems to make many accurate predictions which we can act on even if it is incomplete. Some specifics include:
    – Protease inhibitors, most famously Ivermectin, seem to work fantastically well and while they have multiple methods of action, the “viral theory” predicts that they would work and that in itself seems to be of value.
    – What is actually being identified when things in the COVID structure are independently identified by independent labs such as the “furin cleavage site” and the HIV insert?
    – When labs identify, for example, that the “virus” binds to ACE2 receptors and it does so more strongly in people than in bats, what is actually doing this binding if it’s not a virus?
    – ACE2 is another example where predictions were made early on that blocking the receptors such as indirectly occurs with some blood pressure medication (ACE inhibitors or ARBs?) would lessen infection and this again seem to have been shown to be true, although it is a weak affect if I remember correctly. But the point is that the viral model had value beyond what could have otherwise been done with the “terrain”.
    – More generally, what are the different categories of “viruses” such as rhinoviruses, herpes viruses, retroviruses, etc. referring to if not viruses? These distinction seem to be useful for identifying treatments so it seems there is an element of validity to them.
    – While I agree that trying to avoid the spread of “the virus” rather than helping people be resilient against it was bad policy, trying to avoid some other viruses such as by not kissing people with active cold sores does seem 100% consistent with the model of an infectious agent.
    – Many compounds that are considered anti-viral may in fact be functioning by helping the body fight off something else (such as Vitamin C) but viral theory seems to still have made a meaningful contribution.
    None of this is to say that a healthy terrain is not the most important factor, but the viral model stil seems to provide valuable predictions.
    I appreciate Dr. Cowen’s work, especially as it relates to ways to reduce the risk of heart attacks, and I applaud you both for challenging accepted wisdom that is not complete, but I think it’s counter-productive to just say viruses don’t exist and leave it at that without addressing the implications of that such as those in the examples above.

  33. Random says:

    Thanks for being brave enough to have this discussion! We truly are living through the end of this world, by that I mean a world built upon lies and manipulation, and are going to be moving into such a promising future! I cannot believe that people are seriously shooting this information down in the manner that they are… not with studies showing the isolation of viruses, not in any logical or intelligent way, nope, by ridiculing those who ask questions and present information. I hope they are just trolls or bots because the rabid way they attack ideas they dislike is pretty horrifying… to the one point saying that just because we can’t isolate it doesn’t mean it’s not there, if it was there, it would’ve been found, and with the ‘science’ being able to investigate the real reasons for sickness, maybe something similar will be isolated… people aught to be mad that the science community has used their prestige to lie to the public and keep us sick, things that could and should be fixed with diet and nutrition, how many have died due to that greed and deceit?

    1. Mike says:

      Hey, my advice is to go join Ben in Idaho. He’s apparently going because he feels the same way you do. As for your complaints on “Science” Vaccines have been studied and used in the west for the past 200 years by western medicine. Edward Jenner an English physician and scientist is considered the father of modern vaccines having inoculated a small boy in 1796 against smallpox. Since that time Billions of dollars and thousands of researchers and scientists have studied viruses and vaccines.

      Weigh these facts against Dr. Cowan who has run no experiments at all, but just has an opinion. Frankly I think you’d have to be pretty gullible to believe someone like him in lieu of the overwhelming evidence that viruses exist. Here is a link of Electron Microscope images of viruses that Cowan says “don’t exist.”
      https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=electron+imaging+of+viruses&atb=v1-1&iax=images&ia=images

  34. jon says:

    Ben,

    From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU. This is your BEST and BRAVEST Podcast yet. Thank You for being open to “conflicting” information and hearing Dr. Cowan’s findings. I encourage you to follow up with him regarding his work with Stefan Lanka. I do believe it would be helpful to host anyone who will debate Dr. Cowan, together on your platform. Also, please make sure your good friend Joe hears this episode and knows this side of the “official narrative.”

    Wishing you all the best,

  35. Some guy says:

    This guy is garbage
    Ben says so it’s not a virus
    How is it not a virus ? His answer well I don’t know I’m just saying stuff so it must be true

  36. Adam says:

    Hi Ben and Dr Cowan,

    I have no idea if Dr Cowan is right or wrong about viruses, but he does make a very common logical fallacy: absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence. In other words, though he may be right that viral theory has not been proven using existing methods (I have no idea, I have not read the literature, but let’s assume he is right), his conclusion that viral theory then is wrong is NOT the next logical step. Just because we haven’t proven something to be true doesn’t mean it is false, it just means that we haven’t proven it to be true.

    Again, this is not an argument for or against viral theory itself, it’s just an argument about being logically consistent.

    I find it funny that many people who fail to understand the “absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence” fallacy often propose alternative theories that also do not meet rigorous evidential requirements used to debunk the previous theory. That’s the Narrative Fallacy in action.

    It’s also interesting that you bookend the conversation by talking about spirituality. I too believe in a higher power. I know of no double-blind peer-reviewed articles proving without a doubt that a higher power exists. But I still believe in one. Just because our current evidence is lacking, doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It just means we don’t understand. Weird huh.

    1. Rfed says:

      Fyi, if you look into this you will see quote after quote of Tom Cowan saying that he would publicly say he was wrong if anyone proves a virus using the scientific method, he even states that in this podcast. He is also on record saying that virus theory should be looked into using the scientific method.

      When was the last time Anthony Fauci or any other virologist said they would publicly take back their statements if someone could use the scientific method to prove them wrong? I’ll save you the time, since it appears you don’t have a lot of time to research on your own, the answer is never.

  37. Izzy T says:

    You’re so being shut down for this blatant Covid disinformation–and just complete disregard and ignorance of basic science. They’ve been measuring viral load in HIV patients for 30+ years (from blood not mucus–or whatever the hell this quack is talking about with Covid). Reporting to Apple and whoever else can shut you down. This non-scientific nonsense puts lives at risk. Ben Greenfield deserves to burn in hell.

    1. Happy says:

      Your a terrible person. You should be ashamed of yourself. Until you learn about how to be a human being you should stopping looking at other people to provide happiness. Your anger at whatever, shines through as “I disagree and will get even and prove you wrong and if I can’t well at least I destroyed you and now I THINK I feel better. “ So sad

    2. Floyd Reynolds says:

      Ppl like Izzy T deserve the worst possible karma. There’s a reason why you POS’s are hated and deservingly so. You are all as brainwashed as they come. Truly a terrible bunch with nothing to give.

  38. Drew Campbell says:

    Im curious of how he was going to frame Dr Bush being mistaken in his perspective. It would be interesting to hear Zac’s response!

    1. Drew Campbell says:

      Also if Im not mistaken Dr Mercola seems so sure that the virus and all of the variants have been isolated…lets get his response and then we have a true opportunity for clarity.

      Pretty stunning stuff though and I still have not heard a single scientist or dr bring up evidential proof of the virus’ isolation. Instead all I’ve heard them do is say that it’s nonsense and that it and the variants have been clearly isolated without saying exactly how it was isolated….I’d love to hear more

      1. A says:

        Take some university level microbiology classes and learn for yourself.

  39. Harper says:

    There are literally thousands of people who work in virology. According to Dr. Cowan, they are all deluded. Ben, have the dignity to feature a guest who can respond to his claims. I, for one, see several inaccuracies in his statements.

    1. Drew Campbell says:

      There were literally more than thousands of Dr’s recommending margarine in the 80’s and it’s now considered poison, meaning consensus is not an argument for truth. I agree though I would love to hear the other side as well because I still have not heard any one of those thousands of virologists explain the process of isolation any differently.

    2. Gary says:

      Can you please share with us what inaccuracies you saw in Dr. Cowan’s statements?

    3. Gary says:

      Is the communist model of government right because millions believe in it?

    4. Chris says:

      Thanks for having a brain, Harper. I mean my god….the trillions of dollars that have been made combatting viruses and helping to save lives–Bill Gates didn’t give them to you paranoid quacks. I’ll piggyback on the HIV from above (even though that will be the easiest to go at me from you bigots–we can do flu next). They do blood tests for the RNA of the virus and if it’s under 20/ml (they may be able to detect to 5/ml within the next year) you are considered undetectable and it’s considered virtually impossible to pass the virus on. Some people have over 1,000,000/ml and they can spread it like wildfire. Trillion-dollar drugs have been developed to bring this viral load from a million to less than 5. Is Gilead greedy? yes. are they ethical? probably not. Have they extended the lives of 100’s of millions from these drugs? Yes! It’s also curtailed the disease. Gay men–I don’t care if I gross you neanderthal’s out–use something called PREP now (descovy or truvada–I think) instead of condoms–and guess what? It works even better at preventing HIV transmission. Science exists even if Ben Greenfield doesn’t believe in it when it doesn’t fit his GREED. Let’s all buy Feel Free b/c Ben gets 40% of all our purchases!!!! Wanna do flu next? I mean…..this is just so ridiculous and anti-science. Ya’ll have a false messiah. Get over it.

      1. Rfed says:

        You do know that Bill Gates has publicly stated that his return on investment to virology profited more than any other investment?

        How much money does a doctor who tells you not to go to the doctor make?

  40. Mike says:

    You would think that with all the blow back that Joe Rogan got that Ben would be a little more prudent on who he has on. I guess not. If you don’t think that viruses exist then you are ignorant, a fool or a combination of both. If only Louis Pasteur had been able to consult with Dr. Cowan, then he’d have known not to waste his time developing the Rabies vaccine in the late 1800’s to protect against the Rabies virus..

    Here are Dr. Cowan’s latest ringing endorsements

    Feb 5, 2021 – “A San Francisco doctor infamous for spreading misinformation linking COVID-19 to 5G communications networks can no longer practice medicine after surrendering his license to California’s medical board.

    Until last July, Thomas Cowan ran an alternative medicine practice that didn’t accept insurance, sold nutritional supplements and offered $375 consultations. Cowan has published several fringe medicine books — including one questioning whether viruses cause disease.”

  41. Mike says:

    You would think that with all the blow back that Joe Rogan got that Ben would be a little more prudent on who he has on. I guess not. If you don’t think that viruses exist then you are ignorant, a fool or a combination of both. If only Louis Pasteur had been able to consult with Dr. Cowan, then he’d have known not to waste his time developing the Rabies vaccine in the late 1800’s to protect against the Rabies virus..

    Here are Dr. Cowan’s latest ringing endorsements

    Feb 5, 2021 – “A San Francisco doctor infamous for spreading misinformation linking COVID-19 to 5G communications networks can no longer practice medicine after surrendering his license to California’s medical board.

    Until last July, Thomas Cowan ran an alternative medicine practice that didn’t accept insurance, sold nutritional supplements and offered $375 consultations. Cowan has published several fringe medicine books — including one questioning whether viruses cause disease.”

    1. Kathleen Kahl says:

      The death-bed confession of Louis Pasteur, “Bernard was right; i was wrong. the pathogen is nothing; the terrain is everything.”
      Also read The United States of Fear, Mark McDonald M.D. Open mind open heart. Live free.

      1. Kathleen Kahl says:

        Pasteur was also found to be an expert plagiarist. I have been consuming raw milk for over 20 years and do not miss the pasteurization process and have never been sick. JS

    2. Chris says:

      Thank you. I know Ben has some (many) conspiracy theorist fans, but this was just way over the top crazy. For a man who sites so many scientific studies: does he actually believe in science? To reject the notion of viruses is one of the most asinine assertions I’ve heard in a long while. Rogan and Mercola get shit, but this podcast puts them to shame. I like your show Ben but you have to do better. This was irresponsible at best. You can’t go around telling people viruses don’t exist.

      1. Drew Campbell says:

        Ben didn’t tell anyone that viruses don’t exist now did he? It seems like saying that someone is wrong without knowing a single fact in refutation is hardly scientific. Lets hear someone intelligently refute this instead of going Fauci style and calling it nonsense

        1. I never said I didn't believe in viruses. Simply had a conversation about the fact that they haven't been successfully isolated.

      2. lolly says:

        yes you can..((smile)).

        scamdemic..corbett report

    3. Jeremy says:

      I thought Pasteur recanted germ theory on his death bed?

    4. Alma Palian says:

      So, let me guess, Fauci is your hero!!!

  42. Tim says:

    Hi Ben,
    I loved your episode today with Dr. Cowan. You never cease to amaze me with the information you bring to the forefront and I greatly appreciate you for it.
    My question is, how would you or Dr. Cowan suggest someone who is into the powerlifting lifestyle transition into a lifestyle that is more focused on health and longevity? I am somewhat addicted to the sport, but I know there are many dietary requirements that aren’t exactly in line from a perspective of longevity. I’m your opinion, can you train powerlifting and run diet similar to the one you laid out in the show? Do you think there is perhaps a better way to strength train that would be just as fulfilling?
    I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read my comments and questions. I hope you find time to discuss it on a future podcast.

  43. Kathie says:

    Hey Ben, So happy to listen to one of the smartest doctors I follow. His Friday webinars are amazing. Find them on rumble when YouTube pulls them. :)

    Learning about this viral scam has been life changing. I have not been sick once since a 10/2019 head cold. Just knowing I cannot catch something from a patient or family and friends is an amazing awakening. Of course I am done with “modern” medicine unless I need them for trauma and even then I will think long and hard.

    You should interview Dr Tom’s good friend Dr Tommy John. He gave up his license too. His routine could have helped your bad knee, I would bet. He is the son of the Pitcher who the elbow surgery is named for. He may be a bit too wild for you but you can handle him. ;)

    If anyone wants a web site that lays out this whole virus scam: https://viroliegy.com
    It is great way to dig into this international lie of viral theory. It really is a war game being played on us all.

    Never stop listening to the higher power. He will be the one to set us all free from this Contagion Myth.

    1. Signe says:

      Hey Kathie, do you know of any of these things available as audiobooks? The Contagion Myth is not available. Thanks.

    2. Marc says:

      https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege-and-jon-mcalice/some-comments-on-the-contagion-myth

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