November 16, 2023

From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/otto/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:17] Backstory of Today's Podcast and Who is Jonathan Otto?

[00:05:27] What attracted Jonathan to alternative health stuff? 

[00:08:15] Jonathan’s problems with censorship

[00:09:59] The animal venom and its connection to our diseases

[00:22:27] How to protect ourselves?

[00:31:29] Urine therapy

[00:39:22] The use of urine in cancer treatments

[00:48:23] How do you actually drink urine?

[00:52:29] What is RIGVIR therapy?

[00:55:00] Combining urine with compounds that kill cancer cells

[00:59:25] Cancer centers and resorts

[01:04:11] Jonathan’s courses

[01:07:28] Closing the Podcast

[01:08:56] End of Podcast

[01:09:18] Legal Disclaimer

Ben:  My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Jonathan:  Back in 2008, it was a researcher Zhang who had identified urine-derived stem cells. And, back last year, the Wake Forest Institute of Regenerative Medicine, they basically took money from an NIH grant and funded a study on urine-derived stem cells. And so, if they took from a single adult, they found 140 clonal stem cells in a 24-hour urine sample. And, it says specifically, they performed basically identically to a mesenchymal stromal stem cell. It's the same or roughly the same in its doubling time. But, the fact that they're there, which is the fabric of life, the genesis of life is right there in your urine is a shock. But, the thing that's even more shocking is the replication rates. The study showed that it replicates at a rate of 1 times 10 to the power of 8 in a three-week period, which is actually 100 million

Ben:  Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this.

Alright. Well, folks, I've got an interesting backstory behind today's podcast, because if you've been listening to my show lately, then you know that I've been helping my father deal with a battle against colon cancer. It's been difficult just emotionally, logistically, physically, mentally. I wish I'd known a lot more before seeing a loved one go through pain and suffering like that, and also seeing myself as his son kind of mirrored in that suffering, all of the different dynamics that go into caring for and being with a loved one who's that close to you going through a battle like that. 

Now, as I've been somewhat vocal and as I am somewhat well-connected in the health community, all sorts of people have come out of the woodwork to graciously offer assistance in the realm of everything from detoxification to remedies, to emotional support to nutrients and bioavailable protein for staving off things like cachexia and a host of other really, really helpful solutions that have been able to help my dad out with. And, at the time of this recording is actually quite stable after going through a significantly difficult period of time. So, thank God.

But, one guy who I've kind of run into along the way who I've known for quite some time but I didn't know he was this steeped in cancer therapies that basically you've just like never heard of, stuff that really flies under the radar. His name is Jonathan Otto. And, I actually met Jonathan way back in the day. I forget the name of your film that you interviewed me for, Jonathan. Do you remember?

Jonathan:  Yeah, I think it was “Unbreakable: Destined to Thrive” at memory.

Ben:  Okay, “Unbreakable.” Yeah. And so, Jonathan makes all these crazy documentaries and online programs. Very controversial as you would imagine by the titles like “The Truth About Cancer,” and “The Truth About Vaccines,” and “Diet Against Disease,” he even down to things like “Bible Health Secrets.” I actually recently went through that, Jonathan. That was fascinating. Jonathan gave me access to all of his programs last week, and so I've just been kind of binging a lot of his stuff. So basically, he goes around and interviews all these interesting people and condenses it all into these online PDFs, and videos and audios and some fantastic programs. 

But anyways, I was reconnected to Jonathan through my friend, Dr. Isaac Jones, who's also been on the show. And Jonathan, you and I were talking and I was walking, I'm actually walking on my treadmill right now, but I was walking outside when you and I were talking, and you were just blowing my mind about things like animal venom, and urine therapy, and something called Rigvir and all of this stuff. I was just like, “Slow down, slow down, speed through the firehose.” I said, “Look, we need to turn the microphone on and just record some of these things you're talking about because I've never heard of any of this stuff before.” So, that's what we wound up doing and here we are on a kind of off hours for me, but this is so important. I want to do it. So, I'm recording the evening on it on a Tuesday. And, Jonathan was gracious enough to kind of hop on last minute with me and make this podcast happen.

So, first of all, if you're listening, all the shownotes, I'm going to put at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto, O-T-T-O. And, Jonathan's already sent me over a ton of studies and PubMed research and graphics and all sorts of helpful documentation for the type of things he's going to talk about today. So again, shownotes along with all that research and plenty of other goodies in the shownotes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/O-T-T-O.

So, Jonathan, first of all, welcome to the show, and then just go straight into that, dude, you're on the fringe of a lot of this alternative health stuff. So, I would really love to hear what got you attracted to all this in the first place.

Jonathan:  Sure, man. I mean, thank you for the opportunity to share. It's a mission. I mean, you saw that firsthand. I mean, it was just about your dad and I can see how much you love your dad and how much you want to get truth out to everyone that follows you, man. And so, it's an honor to be here.

So, when it comes to just how I got to all this, I didn't expect to go so fringe because there's a time when I thought that conventional methods for cancer treatment was just fine. So, I didn't naturally doubt everyone and everything. It was after just seeing such enormous suffering. So, my background, I studied as a journalist, and got my degree in Australia and did a postgraduate degree, found myself not interested in just covering status quo, just horrific kind of everyday tragedies that really I could do nothing to help and to make any difference. And so, my background before that, I'd done a lot of humanitarian work, and I was an ambassador for World Vision. 

Ben:  Wait, wait, wait. You were an ambassador for World Vision?

Jonathan:  Yep.

Ben:  That's interesting. Did you know that we have something called “The Spiritual Disciplines Journal” at Ben Greenfield Life. It's a journal that I made for gratitude and purpose and self-examination and the like, but we actually donate a portion of the proceeds of the sales of that journal and my other spiritual books to World Vision, an organization me and my family, and now my business, had been supporting for a decade. I didn't know you were involved with them.

Jonathan:  It's so awesome. Yeah, I mean, I was, what, 7 or 8 years old when I've seen a World Vision commercial, and I just broke down crying, told my mom we need to do something about this. And, she was smart enough to say, “Well, you can do something about it.” And so, I had started delivering newspapers with her and we made enough to sponsor two children for the next 10 years. But, when I was 17, I became an ambassador for World Vision. They selected me to be the public representative in Australia to travel to Tanzania, document what was happening, come back, share these stories. It smashed me. It broke my heart seeing all these things. But, knowing that there could be something that could be done about it really motivated me. And, that's actually where that segued into health because I started to realize this is just like that. It's an information war. And, if people knew, they wouldn't suffer. And, that's kind of where that all kind of transitioned.

Ben:  Wow. Okay.

So, I'm just curious, because I'm looking at the list of stuff that you cover, stuff that a lot of podcasters won't even say or they'll say it backwards like I was listening to some podcast the other day, the guy was saying, Wreck Knack in a podcast about cancer, because he didn't want to get censored. COVID vaccines, truth about cancer, you talk about a lot of controversial stuff. I'm just curious, before we even dive in, have you actually been censored quite a bit? Because I know we've been through a lot of that in the past several years, but how has that affected you?

Jonathan:  Dude, it's brutal. I get censored off everything. Anything you could possibly imagine, even the things that you don't think you can get kicked off, I've got kicked off them. So, even membership areas like Teachable, that's not something you'd think you'd get kicked out of or Vimeo, certainly YouTube, even TikTok, how many TikTok accounts have I had banned? And, I've just treated them kind of relentless soldiers going into a battle that they can't win knowing that they will die on the battlefield and just to get the information out. So, I've kind of just sacrificed all these accounts because we've got around a half a million subscribers on our, ones that haven't been shut down. But, it's brutal, bro.

Ben:  Wow. Yeah, it kind of reminds me. I used to run a CBD company and we have to change payment processors and URLs all the time because you just get shut down, so you change the name from Nature CBD to Natural CBD and change your different payment. So, you're always getting chased it seems like and obviously you're doing a lot more than just a nonpsychedelic form of cannabis or regardless. Yeah, I would imagine being in the industry, you're in it. It must be tough because you're delving into a lot of weird stuff. 

Like animal venom. I mean, you and I were talking. We're talking, my dad was still in the hospital. He got discharged about four days ago. And, you were talking about animal venom and even its relevance to things like medical supplies and tubing and things like this. And, I'd never even heard of this. So, let's start there. What's this deal with animal venom?

Jonathan:  Oh, sure. Look, this is the real thing, and it's really shocking because if you were talking about toxicities, you would say heavy metals. Basically, everyone listening right now would say heavy metal is a major factor. Absolutely. Everyone would consider gut flora, toxins, environmental toxins of different sorts.

Ben:  Yeah, microplastics and pharmaceuticals, probably.

Jonathan:  Exactly. All of that, like the perfluorochemicals, PFOA, C8, this Teflon, et cetera, et cetera. But, there's movies even in the mainstream, so like Hollywood would even put movies out on this and the stories behind them and how DuPont got attacked with blackwater and things like that. But then, parasites, a lot of your audience would even now know about parasites. But, this issue of venoms is real and it's not just conjecture or just some conspiracy. It's so real that I felt compelled that I had to tell you about it because I was deeply worried that it wasn't being assessed in the regime. And, why am I saying that it's so prevalent? Okay, one basic answer to that is just anyone do a Google search and have a look at what is being used in pesticides today. And then, you'll find that the most common ingredients are scorpion venom, and spider venom, cone snail venom, and various types of pit vipers and crates.

Ben:  Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Are we talking about synthetic things that a pesticide manufacturer would produce that has a chemical similarity to snake venom or scorpion, or whatever?

Jonathan:  Yes, exactly.

Ben:  Are there actually a bunch of little scorpion in cages running around in these labs?

Jonathan:  Well, there's enough but it's peptides. 

Ben:  Okay.

Jonathan:  It's peptides. It's basically taking the toxic components only and I can show you studies that back this. So, it's taking the toxic components that want the aspects that are most lethal, typically, and then using that to target, in this case, insects. But, either not assessing or simply knowing that that is going to feed the disease industry, that would then feed the cancer industry, the degenerative disease of the brain et cetera, et cetera, autoimmune.

Ben:  Okay. Alright, so what you're saying is that you can sit down and look at a venom that you know could kill an insect or break down an insect cell wall or whatever, like scorpion venom or snake venom or all these other venoms you're talking about, and you could synthesize that via peptides because these are all just strings of amino acids, these venoms, and you could use that in a pesticide. But, what you're saying is that when we consume food, I'm assuming you're talking about the U.S. agricultural food supply primarily, and although you can clarify whether or not this is international, we are consuming those same pesticides that are basically mimickers of animal venom, and it is contributing to disease somehow?

Jonathan:  Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm saying. And, there's no way to get around it. You have to look at the patents and patents give away a lot. Monsanto, Bayer, having patents in using the venoms as pesticides, various types from cone snail to the variety of snake species, scorpion. These are all very common. And so, what that means is that they're getting into our food supplies. They're in us without us realizing.

Ben:  That's interesting about this animal venom, Jonathan. I'm just curious, though because you'll look at people–she's really great, but like “The Food Babe,” Vani Hari, who talked about the chemical on the subway, sandwich bread that essentially just gets broken down into water in the human body, and it's not that big of an issue. But, when we're talking about animal venom, obviously, it sounds scary. But, I'm just curious as far as the actual connection. Has it been demonstrably proven that as we consume these peptides that there's an increased risk of certain diseases?

Jonathan:  Yeah. No, it's very important to see this. There's lots of different dots that you need to connect to be able to work this out. Okay. So, I'll give you some examples.

Let's say glyphosate. Now, multimillion, like centimillion over $100 million even in the suit of Dwayne Johnson, which sounds like the act of different guy with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma that basically was fatal. And so, he then got this kind of 100-plus million-dollar suit as an example. There's another one that was over a billion or something like that. These huge suits, one, because of the cancers that are caused by these chemicals, and people just kind of lumped it in like, “Okay, glyphosate is just some slew of chemicals.” But then, you see the patents, and then the patents give it away.

And so, Dr. Sarah Laney, when he gave the rats, the Roundup Ready corn and then found that their bodies filled up with tumors, this was another incidence of what is happening here? Is this some kind of dysregulation that's happening? What's the ingredients? Why would it cause this kind of dysregulation that would cause basically the body to allow these tumors to grow that normally would circulate in the body with cancer, tumor cells, but then now they are out of control and prolifically growing as if it's something that the body wants?

And then, now you switch over to animal studies that specifically show that cone snail venoms are the primary mechanism that they're using to create gliomas like, for example, brain tumors and other types of cancer, to try to use then a therapeutic agent that would mimic something that would be able to bind and reduce that cancer and then be sold as a drug. Venom is either the primary tool that is used to induce tumors in animals to then trust as drugs.

Ben:  I want people to understand that. So, what you're saying is the same ingredients being used in our food supply to kill insects off of our food, the same food that we then eat, are being used in laboratory models to induce tumorigenesis?

Jonathan:  Yep. Yeah, exactly. I'll show you a study here. This one's a really important one.

Ben:  By the way, the video is on YouTube and also at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto. Otto is going to show some screenshots during this podcast, so you may want to check out the video too. Go ahead

Jonathan:  Okay. So here, look at this graph. Okay. So, look at the title of it. And again, these are things that why on earth are people experimenting with conotoxins, which is so lethal? If you get stung by a Conus geographus cone snail in the wild, it's an 80% fatality rate. Why are they being experimented– 

Ben:  I was freaking out about the scorpions and the snakes, I didn't think the snails sounded so bad, but I'm looking at this study. Oh, yeah, proliferation of glioma C6 cells, and that's what this cone snail venom, huh? 

Jonathan:  Absolutely. It's turning it on. So, you're hearing about turbo cancers, right?

Ben:  Turbo cancers?

Jonathan:  Turbo cancers. Yeah. So, that's interesting. Okay. So normally, we get told that tumors take five years, 10 years?

Ben:  Yeah. They told me, by the way, that my dad's had been growing for 10 years.

Jonathan:  Exactly. But, are they even assessing the fact that, let's say, what's the cause for the cancer? Because if the cause was something like a cone snail venom that replicates easily in the colon, I'll show you this, then not only could it be years, it could be less than a year, but months or weeks or even days because these studies show that it's in as little as 72 hours.

Ben:  Geez. Hey, Jonathan. Look, a lot of people will wash their produce in vinegar, they'll choose organic. People are aware of pesticides, right? This is not a newsflash to anyone, I think, that pesticides might not be the best thing to be eating. I think probably the part about animal venom is a newsflash. But, when I was talking to you, you were making it sound like even if you're eating organic produce, there's some other places this is popping up in objects that we're actually exposed to. I think you said like medical tubing or something like that.

Jonathan:  I don't remember saying medical tubing, but I might have said water supplies. I think that's what you're told.

Ben:  Okay. Maybe that's what you said. Yeah.

Jonathan:  So, I'll give you an example. Now, let's go with this study. This is Dr. Carlo Brogna. And, he did this incredible study in Italy that was showing, is peer-reviewed, you'd find it on PubMed, and it was venom peptides in COVID-19 patients. So, “Toxin-like peptides in plasma urine and feces samples from COVID-19 patients.” Okay, so now look at the results here. This is June of 2020. June of 2020 before any vaccines were even released. Okay, results. “Toxin-like peptides almost identical to toxic components of venoms from animals, like conotoxins.” Now, these are all snake venom, “phospholipases, phosphodiesterase, zinc metalloproteinases and bradykinins were identified in samples from COVID-19 patients but not in controlled samples.”

Okay. So now, let's have a look. What does it say? And, I use the word “almost identical.” So now, skeptic is going to say, what, said almost identical. So therefore, it's not, it just looks like it, so big deal. Move on. Why are you making a big deal about this? This actually proves my point better than anything else because I said that it's peptides, it's not the actual venom from a milk snake.

Ben:  Right. That's synthetically like a lab-derived peptide.

Jonathan:  Exactly.

Ben:  Yeah.

Jonathan:  Conotoxins are potential weapons from the sea was on the Department of Justice website here back in, I'd say it was 2012.

Ben:  A research study from the Office of Justice Programs and the U.S. Department of Justice called Conotoxins: Potential Weapons from the Sea. So, these would be considered potentially like biological weapons that we're using in our foods.

Jonathan:  Exactly. And, they blatantly tell you here that conotoxins are so easy. There's no regulation. They can put them all through the environment. They show all the different ways that they can be put through; aerosolization, put into the air, and put into other documents show that they can easily be put into the water supplies is what I uncovered in a film called CoVenom19 where we actually just go under senate.gov right now and I can show you in the MK Ultra declassified documents they say blatantly that they put venoms like paralytic clamshell venoms, saxitoxins, various different types of venoms into water supplies between, in this case, the CIA put it in the FBI building without the staff knowing to see if they could carry out a clandestine activity. But, that's an example of them just doing something against the public's awareness.

And then, you because you have to find some reason now why all these different venoms showed up–and, I'm not talking about they kind of looked a little bit like it, it shows you the exact amino acid chain length. It shows you here that it was the Malayan krait, the banded krait, the Uruguayan coral snake, the Chinese cobra, the Malayan spitting cobra, inland Taipan, coastal Taipan, four different types of Eastern brown snake. And now, there's one starfish in here, and then the rest are like the California cone snail, what, the Italians go swimming in the California ocean?

Ben:  I'm a pretty libertarian capitalist as much as people might hate for me to say this. If a seed manufacturer or a farmer wants to use pesticides, I'm not necessarily going to send the army over to shut them down. But, I do think that we should proactively protect ourselves using preventive methods at least. I thought about washing your produce or buying organic. But, in your opinion, like with what you know and what you found out about animal venom, let's say that we can't necessarily escape this stuff, whether for nefarious purposes or otherwise by whoever's making it from showing up in our bodies or at least in our food supply our environment, what would you do? I mean, besides the obvious of choosing organic and washing your produce, what are some of the other things here that we could do to protect ourselves against things like this?

Jonathan:  Absolutely. Well, the water supply is an issue, so you want to be filtering your water and you want to look at filtration techniques that are going to help to get these kinds of poisons out. So, what type is that? I mean, reverse osmosis does clear a lot out. Eating organic, yes, it does help a lot. Distilled water is very interesting when you look at the mechanism of it. Actually, we are going to talk about urine and that's going to be really fascinating for people to understand the mechanism. Because some of the things I think are beyond us and what we can do, and so we need basically these proactive measures and different tools that are available to us so that when we get affected, we can use these types of things because I would agree with you. Generally speaking, most of the things that we would live quite similarly, and that I'm not this hyper-cautious, “Oh, no, that could have venoms, that could have venoms.” I basically just know what to do if something gets into my body. And, I've had people even on my research team, even just last week, two close personal friends of mine have their life saved basic way understanding how nicotine works because all venoms bind to nicotine receptors.

Ben:  Yeah. You sent me something here about a nicotine patches. This is super interesting. By the way, I should note, Jonathan, I interviewed somebody back in the day who was talking about nicotine's interaction with acetylcholine receptors and how people who wanted to tone their vagus nerve, address constipation that might be due to an inhibited migrating motor complex in the gut. They can actually try a nicotine patch and that it could address some of those issues. I think other people are, of course, aware of the focus and the cognitive enhancing properties of nicotine, particularly via delivery mechanism of something other than a cigarette. But, what's the deal with nicotine, these animal venoms?

Jonathan:  Absolutely. So, one, I respect that you're on top of that. The rabbit hole goes so deep here because I'll bring up this slide here because it is so important to understand this because if what I'm saying is true, if this is the primary mechanism, it means that if somebody is infected, they need to get access to something that will bind to the same receptors that these poisons will bind to. And, I'm saying that so much of chronic disease across the board is related to these venoms. And, I can explain why because it's so much more than just the pesticides. This is linked to HIV AIDS as well because if you look at the homology sequence of HIV, rabies, and bungarotoxin, which is a crate snake, they share the same homology sequence, which means that it could not have come from the wild, it had to come, in this case, through genetic engineering. 

And, in that same year, in 1986, we had the announcement of chronic fatigue syndrome along with HIV AIDS. And then, we had all these STD-related blood viruses that basically have been all through my body. And, I've had chronic fatigue syndrome suffered all these things. So, it's so prolific to think about how immune systems have been damaged through potential different types of biological weapons. And, I'll show you various studies that showed nicotine as effective on anything from tinnitus to low hearing to Tourette Syndrome, to Parkinson's disease, to glioma C6 like aggressive brain tumors that have an eight-month survival rate to autism with adults with aggression all documented, which I sent to you ahead of time, and we'll go through which ones we can.

Ben:  Yeah. By the way, I was blown away by these studies that you sent. But, I guess my biggest question for you, Jonathan, because obviously, I'm all about jumping into some of the practical stuff here.

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Of course, for people who want to get deeper dive, I'm going to link to all these studies in the shownotes.

Jonathan:  Yep.

Ben:  How much nicotine are we talking? Are we saying like, whatever, chomp on a piece of Lucy gum once a day? Are we talking about like covering your whole abdomen with patches? What's the dose here?

Jonathan:  No, no, really minimal. And, the oldest study is basically backing 7, 14 milligrams as a patch.

Ben:  7 to 14. Okay. So, a lot of these gums are like 2 to 4 milligrams. I think a lot of the patches are anywhere from like 1 to maybe 10 or so.

Jonathan:  No. I mean, I've never seen them at that, more like 7 to 21. They're the only ones I've seen; 7, 14, and 21.

Ben:  Okay. And, you're literally talking about just like the kind of nicotine patches you can get off Amazon?

Jonathan:  Yeah, or Walgreens or your pharmacy. If they have these symptoms, I just want people to get them as soon as they can and then get some of the other brands. Yeah, Lucy is good for the gum. And Rugby, it's by GlaxoSmithKline, but it's pretty mild in terms of the toxins that are there.

Ben:  What's that one by GSK?

Jonathan:  It's Rugby.

Ben:  Rugby. And, that's a pharmaceutical form of nicotine?

Jonathan:  Yeah, same as the rest basically, just has a few less toxic ingredients, because they're pretty average but they're so important to get because you have to compete for the receptor. Okay. So, all venoms bind to the alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. That's important to understand. Universally, they bind to this receptor so much so that a mongoose or a badger, they don't have nicotine receptors, because they basically adapted out of that from a natural adaption evolutionary perspective. So, they don't get affected by a snake bite; whereas, we have these nicotine receptors. And so, whether it's a cone snail or a scorpion, they will hit these receptors through. Those receptors, basically, they block sodium, copper, calcium, potassium. And, by blocking these channels, they will cause heart attacks in referencing back to the heart attack gun from disclosed in 1975 by the CIA, that was using shellfish venom. So, they will create heart attacks immediately by blocking the, the minerals that your body circulates. And so, all these deficiencies that you just can't work out why you're so chronically deficient can be because these venoms are present in the body.

This one here was a 24 to 72-hour period, an application of nicotine. The reason why they even did this study was simply because they know that venoms bind to nicotine receptors. So then, what they're trying to do is find a drug that will match the ability of nicotine patented drug and then make money from that. That's kind of the go-to. By the way, I got to give Dr. Bryan Ardis a shoutout. He's a chief researcher on this heavyweight. But, look at what had happened here at 24 to 72 hours, the tumor formation dropped by more than two times in that short period.

Ben:  Well, yeah, I'm looking at this image. Isn't it fascinating? Wow. It kind of makes you wonder if despite there being so many issues with this phenomenon of vaping nicotine and even the surge and all these zin nicotine pouches and everybody seemingly addicted to buying nicotine from the gas station, there might be a side bonus here of some people being protected against some of these things in our food supply. Obviously, I think a patch would be the cleanest the cleanest way to do this. Yeah, don't you think?

Jonathan:  Absolutely. So, like people need to be aware of what happens with vaping or smoking. The combustion is insane. You're talking about 600 added chemicals in a cigarette. And then, vaping, I don't think it's much different. But, even if it was organic tobacco, once you smoke it, the combustion multiplies those chemicals to about 6,000 to 7,000.

Ben:  Wow.

Jonathan:  And, 70 of those are known to cause cancer. So, the attempt to try to cure cancer–by the way, a call from my sister to try to save the life of somebody right now just came through, a mother-in-law, actually. And, you can't tell me that what just happened to a heart wasn't connected to this vaccine, which is basically in a life-threatening condition. You're getting these cases all the time. So, you see, it's real-time, bro. Go ahead.

Ben:  Okay. So, obviously, some of this stuff we could talk about for hours and hours, and of course, I'm going to make the shownotes pretty thorough. So, we've got animal venom is something to be aware of and you're making a case for nicotine as being something that might protect you against that if you're showing a lot of these symptoms that are in some of these studies that you've shared, and that I'll put in the shownotes. But, you kind of gave me a little bit of a pattern interrupt when you also brought up to me on that phone call the idea of urotherapy, which is not going to Europe for therapy but it's actually urine therapy, which I believe is just drinking urine. So, possibly a little bit of 180 here, maybe it correlates with what we've already been talking about, but where does urine therapy fit into the picture?

Jonathan:  Yeah. No, this 100% correlates. Well, firstly, I'll just say this, how do you create an antivenom? You can't just kind of sit there and invent it. The only way to create an antivenom is to inject a large mammal or anything with a venom and then to take the blood out and then spin the blood that type of centrifuging. And, that is the serum. So, it's a reaction of the blood, and then a purification of the blood that they're trying to do through these anti-venom methods. It's why in folk medicine, you've got the reference to jellyfish things and various types of things then being remedied by urine. But, it's so much more than that. That's a lead-in because I've not seen anything be completely regenerative like urine when it comes to various types of dysregulation in the body. 

And, it's just blown my mind, Ben. I can't tell you, man, how much this changed everything for me. And, I was a producer back on the truth about cancer and I saw a lot of people suffer with cancer through that journey. I just wish I had known about that then. It's been around for the longest time but it's been cloaked in so much mystery. To me, Big Pharma, their most incredible job wasn't, for example, vaccines and kind of convincing people that they could just load themselves up with these things and that it would be fine even though they're filled with things that are completely destructive like heavy metals. And again, you've got all these parts of animal bloods and human embryonic kidney cells and various things. That wasn't their masterpiece. And, masterpiece was making us disgusted at the most powerful medicine that exists as far as I'm concerned. I did not realize, one, that they were stem cells in urine. I did not realize that urine is certainly the most studied medical substance and even in modern medicine of any single substance.

Ben:  No kidding. Huh, their stem cells and urine?

Jonathan:  Yes. Yeah. So, the stem cells and urine, this is, to me, the most incredible thing. I'll tell you about this study that Wake Forest did. This was last year. This was one of the most remarkable studies, I think, that really validated this. So, back in 2008, it was a researcher Zhang who had identified urine-derived stem cells. And, back last year, the Wake Forest Institute of Regenerative Medicine, they basically took money from an NIH grant and funded a study on urine-derived stem cells. And so, if they took from a single adult, they found 140 clonal stem cells in a 24-hour urine sample. 

So, one that is interesting to have stem cells at all that basically, and it says specifically they performed basically identically to a mesenchymal stem cell and mesenchymal stromal stem cell, and it's the same or roughly the same in its doubling time. Actually, I think it's more powerful, by the way, in its doubling time and also in its immunophenotype. But, the fact that they're there, which is the fabric of life, the genesis of life, is right there in your urine is a shock. But, the thing that's even more shocking is the replication rates. So, I'll tell you the math on how it replicates. The study showed that it replicates at a rate of 1 times 10 to the power of 8 in a three-week period, which is actually 100 million.

Ben:  So, what does that mean if you were to drink stem cell-rich urine that you'd actually get some kind of oral bioavailability of those stem cells? Because nobody really drinks stem cells, they inject them or sometimes do intranasal administration or occasionally nebulized stem cells but nobody actually drinks them. And, I always thought urotherapy is just like drinking your pee.

Jonathan:  It will, yeah. Okay, shall I say? One, this is what's so crazy. I'm saying that this is because we're addicted to white coat syndrome where we just think that only healing has to come from somebody getting in a suit, a white suit, and getting the needle even though we're holistic would somehow think it has to happen through needles when it completely goes against biology. Because the question is, what's in the original design? And, this is where faith comes into it, not faith and you just believe it. I'm saying, this is where worldview comes in where you can look at something but not even realize what's going on. For example, when you were in the womb, Ben, where did you go and urinate? Where do you go to the toilet while you're in there?

Ben:  I guess it's kind of like in the fluid within the uterus like in the amniotic fluid. 

Jonathan:  Yeah, the urine is the amniotic fluid.

Ben:  Oh, okay. So, you mean when I'm producing urine that the amniotic fluid you would find in the uterus is derived from me peeing in there?

Jonathan:  Yes.

Ben:  Okay.

Jonathan:  And so, it's critical to understand the absorption and the function and how it's critical for how even came into existence and how our genetic blueprint was all to do with our urine. And, this is what is not being talked about. So, at eight to 10 weeks, urine would go through your nostrils, which was filled with white stem cells as proven now, which we've only known about stem cells for about 15 years. And so, now, we're understanding of what's happening at around eight to 10 weeks, it's the urine that goes into form the lungs of the baby, it forms the lungs. And so, basically, you've got a genetic blueprint from the fetus and then you have a stem cell. And, what does a stem cell do when it attaches to something that has information that tells it of what it can be? It forms that what it's attaching to because it is undifferentiated and it will then form whatever stimulus it's attached to. This is how you can actually even create a heart or any other organ on a scaffold outside of a body by simply attaching stem cells to a stimulus of what it's saying, “Well, you need to be hot.”

And so, one, urine actually went in through the nostril and in the mouth, and the baby is drinking urine about every three hours. But, as it continues, so amniotic fluid becomes more and more heavily urine from the baby, it switches from being the mother's fluid to being the baby's urine. And, this is also the way that the baby is–it's part of the ability for a baby to correct its abnormalities with brain fluid, cysts in the brain, and white spots in the heart. And, the baby is actually resolving these issues just during its time in the womb, but this cycling of urine is it's taking in the stem cells, it's absorbing them, and then they're getting urinated out again, and then they're getting used on the exterior of the body of the baby and transdermally and then they're going in the baby and it's cycling like this. And, once people get this picture, they'll realize that all these applications that are most powerful are actually the ones that mimic our biology and how we came into existence.

Ben:  Okay. So, you share this book with me. Great title, “Your Own Perfect Medicine” by this author, Martha Christy. You said it was like the Bible of urine therapy. I didn't read it.

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Got it on my Kindle. I might crack it up on the airplane tomorrow, we'll see. I probably shouldn't be too hydrated beforehand because reading about urine makes me have to pee as does listen to the sound of waterfalls. But, the clutch question here is, how does this even work? Do you literally just pee and drink it? Kind of question about nicotine, how do you actually administer? It sounds like a patch. But, what does it do with urine therapy? How do you even do it? Okay, so he's got a little glass jar here, folks. Is that your pee in there, Jonathan?

Jonathan:  Yeah, yeah, it's not much but it's just a little bit.

Ben:  Very well hydrated.

Jonathan:  Yeah, exactly. There you go. So, make it easy for yourself for starters.

Ben:  Wait. So, you're not joking. That's your pee and you drink it?

Jonathan:  I promise you. 

Ben:  Okay.

Jonathan:  I'd be an idiot to lie about this. I mean, the way that I can illustrate it–I can't do it without being graphics. So, there's no way for me to–

Ben:  No, trust me. Most of my listeners know where pee comes from. You don't have to explain that. But, what do you do, you pee every day and just drink it?

Jonathan:  I do. It made a huge difference for my health. I've been doing it for a year straight.

Ben:  It made a huge difference in your health. 

Jonathan:  Sure, I'll just illustrate this first. It really doesn't taste much. That actually tastes like green tea, which is weird.

Ben:  Okay. So, what do you notice when you started drinking this stuff?

Jonathan:  Okay. So firstly, like immense energy, I struggled with chronic fatigue syndrome since I was a child but that's where I was kind of running to every doctor to try and find a solution to that problem. It was huge for me to find the answer to that problem. And then, skin was really interesting. I get compliments and comments like, “Man, your skin looks like so much different on what it used to. It looks amazing. It looks better. It looks like you've really done something. What did you do?” Because I've had mild acne and this kind of thing as well and breakouts and just kind of just struggled. The other thing was that was definitely documented where my doctor out of Tampa who just ran my bloodwork in May and then in August and watch this progression, she kind of like, I need to call you, I need to talk to you. I'm like, “Oh, no, what do you find?” kind of thing. And then, it was more like just this ear-to-ear grin of, what are you doing, this is amazing. Your progression is incredible. She's been on my case for three or four years. And, she was really amazed and really excited for me just as a friend as well to see me have all these markers that showed my gut inflammation was basically almost completely resolved and other areas of toxicity inflammation reduced.

Ben:  I mean, I would imagine part of this is people who are drinking their own pee are probably doubling down on some other health efforts in life. They're that desperate to drink their urine. But, I'm intrigued nonetheless, what's it have to do with cancer though? What's it do for cancer?

Jonathan:  Yeah, sure. And, by the way, I wasn't taking any supplements during the time which would basically meant then supplements versus urine for me, and I have a supplement company, so why would I say that? I'm basically telling everyone that urine is the most powerful thing you can put in your body.

Ben:  Well, you need to start a supplements company selling your own urine, bro.

Jonathan:  Yeah. Well, the companies that did that are making billions, by the way. Enzymes of America are extracting through Porta John. They're actually extracting from a urinal selling urokinase back to us. [00:42:58] _____ made, what, 855 and 1 million in one year, just short of a billion in one year by selling postmenopausal women's urine to women trying to fall pregnant. Everything, like murine is this urine with letter M in front for the eyes, ear infections, murine synthetic urine, which is carbamide and hydrogen peroxide for the ears.

Ben:  I never thought about that.

Jonathan:  You've got urea for the skin and for burns. And, even for cancer therapies, urokinase for cancer therapies. Just think about that. Realize that urea is used as a cancer therapy, especially urokinase is one of the top cancer drugs and it's a clot-busting drug. That's important information. Okay. So, for cancer.

Now, there's some interesting information on this with urine and cancer. So, for example, there are a lot of studies that go back, for example, to basically the last hundred years, you'll see so much of these clinical trials done on urine with all different therapists around the world and conglomerates of doctors that was showing this remarkable turnaround in people's health from just literally a few urine injections, injections now into subcutaneous fat. Okay. I'll show you some of these studies right now. I just kind of pulled some out of the book, “Your Own Perfect Medicine,” which people can find there. And then, like urinetherapy.com is where I put a lot of these free resources where people just get them. So, this here was new use of an old agent from 1957 urea treatment of excess cerebral and spinal pressure, inoperable brain tumors, edema of the brain, premenstrual water retention, meningitis, glaucoma.

Ben:  That looks like it was intravenous administration of urine with a 10% sugar solution, it says.

Jonathan:  Yeah, I believe so. And, this was particularly with urea.

Ben:  Okay, so they were using needles in that one.

Jonathan:  Oh, exactly. No, I'm going to show you a bunch that were all based on needles actually. So, I'm just saying that for the general public, the straightest line with this is simply just to drink your own urine or do urine enemas.

Ben:  Drink enemas, really?

Jonathan:  Enemas. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, think about it, if the colon is infected–by the way, that study that I showed you by Carlo Brogna that was the toxin-like peptides in COVID-19 patients versus those that didn't, he would do nasal swabs. I would say, he's perhaps the world's leading researcher as far as I'm concerned clinically. And, he did nasal swabs on the COVID, then did anal swabs and they were positive for both, which was actually showing just the presence of venom peptides. The PCR tests were designed to pick up venom peptides. Once people work that out, then you'll start working out this whole thing. But then, guess what, they would go negative in the nose but they would be still positive rectally and they'd be positive rectally for up to seven plus eight months, nine months. So, this showed that what was actually developed was more to do with venom peptides with the ability to replicate in the gut. So, it was replicating in the colon, which is if you give instructions to a venom or sorry to yeast or E. coli to form a venom peptide, it can do it. It's all the material that's needed. So, if you have yeast and E. coli in you, then it can basically keep reproducing at its own rate. 

So, that's one important aspect to understand why it would be important to even look at, to me, colon therapies that would actually address that at its source. And, what you'll find with some of these, in some cases, tumors were being injected directly with urine. And, in other cases, urine was simply being administered in the subcutaneous fat or they're drinking it orally and then that was how they were putting the cancer into remission.

Ben:  If I understand correctly here, we hear about things like monoclonal antibody therapy, which was successful in some cases for things like COVID, and I know has also been used in cancer treatments, essentially, you're talking about your own autologous antibody administration via the administration of your own urine as an antibody source.

Jonathan:  Exactly. The autologous is such a fantastic word because it means healing arising from one's own cells and tissue. And, that's what we should be thinking about because your body knows what you've been infected with. And, if I could prove to you there's not a single toxin in your urine, and if there were toxins in your urine, you would die in the womb, because that urine actually goes all through your body, it goes through your skin, it goes in your eyes, and you're suspended in it for basically nine months of your life. And, you're drinking it every three hours, and you're self-selecting as a baby and infant in the womb based on taste. If it had any toxins in it, which babies do get toxins in the womb, on average, they get 287 chemicals through the umbilical cord. This baby is able to distill those toxins into metabolites that look like they are deformed but they're actually metabolite island versions of them. It's not the toxin itself. And, that is the signaling mechanism that the body uses to get rid of that poison. That's what vaccines were actually based on urine therapy if you understand where this whole concept came from, because all the cultures around the world practice this. Every main culture that you could imagine were basically the first thing [00:48:23] _____.

Ben:  Well, I don't know if I'm going to convince my dad to drink his urine, but my audience knows that I pretty much tried just about everything. I talked to somebody on the show about within my moral and ethical value system. And, I'd be game to try it, but are there any subtle nuances? Are we talking about the first-morning void? I'm just saying that to make myself sound smart. But, I don't know, how do you actually drink it? How do you know when to drink it and how much to drink?

Jonathan:  Sure, yeah. Firstly, answering the question on your dad. One, I wouldn't even say that if I were you. I wouldn't say that he wouldn't drink it. I wouldn't have drank it. And then, everyone else that I talked to wouldn't have drank it that, Ben, to give you an idea as well–

Ben:  I'm going to send him this podcast to listen to. So, maybe this will convince him.

Jonathan:  Exactly. It's possible. Absolutely. And, reading the book, basically, if you just take the pressure off someone instead of saying you have to do this, and your dad is a God-fearing man, right?

Ben:  Yeah, I'd say so.

Jonathan:  Yeah, this is fine, however, but regardless of where someone falls on that, but if they're willing to look at the information, and they're willing to just even consider biology of where they came from–

Ben:  No, he'll look at it. I'll buy the book and send it to him. “Your Own Perfect Medicine,” it's called, right?

Jonathan:  Yeah, absolutely.

Ben:  Okay. So, back to how you actually practically do this. Go ahead.

Jonathan:  Sure. So, yes. So, one thing I'd encourage people to do is to do their first clear morning urine because that is going to help people get used to it. Because if you do your first morning urine, it'd be like a little bit stronger. But, notice that you've been fasting all night, which is why you're generating more stem cells while you're sleeping because you're fasting and you're sleeping, your body's regenerating. That's why when you're younger, you're growing while you're sleeping, your body's producing these and in the morning urine, you're going to have the most rich density in the metabolites, and you've got over 3,000 metabolites in your urine and then you're going to take that. 

Urinemetabolome.ca is that site where you can look at every one of the 5,600 compounds that are in urine. But, you've got all these metabolites there, you've got all these stem cells. If you start with your first clear morning urine, then your body will get used to it. And, what will happen in about a week or less or two weeks or so, your body will adjust so much that your urine will completely change its taste and flavor. And then, it goes from being something that's like “uh” to “Oh, wow, that tasted amazing.” And, I'm not kidding you. That there tastes like green tea. So, I could have made a green tea or I could have just drank my urine that was filled with stem cells. And, some other times, it tastes a little bit sweeter. Other times, it tastes a bit salty. If you're eating some pretty toxic stuff, it tastes pretty average. But, the key is if you do it while you're fasting, which is while you're sleeping, then you're going to flush a lot of that out, get hydrated, and it's so easy to do. And, it's just sad that everything else costs money is painful.

Ben:  I'm not going to use asparagus for dinner, so I'm going to do it in the morning. But, how much do I need to drink?

Jonathan:  Nice. Okay. So, there's no real rules. You could do 20 drops and that would have an amazing homeopathic benefit.

Ben:  Oh, drops. Okay, that's doable.

Jonathan:  Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, I'm giving you a scale here. And so, now, on the other side, you could drink your entire output.

Now, there are studies in “Your Own Perfect Medicine” that show people when they drink their entire output, the results were incredible. One of my really close friends, Dr. Ed Group is certainly a resource to follow on this subject. He's an incredible individual and researcher on this as well. He did a gallon a day for 10 months and then did 270 tests on himself and his markers were immaculate according to him and what he shared with me. But, one thing that happened as well for him, his gums regrew, he had gum disease, and his biological dentist had the whole team in his mouth because they'd grown back 1.5 millimeters, which is amazing. They never see that. So, you'll see different things like with gums and things like that.

Ben:  Gallon a day. Man, he gets the gold star.

Jonathan:  He does, gold in every way, right?

Ben:  Okay, this is interesting. There's so many questions I have for you, but we talked about animal venom and nicotine, we talked about urotherapy and I'll certainly link to some of these resources and studies. You told me about this doctor though, an Israeli name, I think, Tel-Orem or something like that as an MB.

Jonathan:  Oh, Dr. Tel-Oren, yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. And, he does some kind of like virus therapy or something like that. I hadn't heard of it. Can you explain what this is?

Jonathan:  Yeah, yeah, that one's an important one because we featured that in the truth about cancer is based out of Riga, Latvia, which is the capital. Hence, why had the name Riga virus or Rigvir.

Ben:  That's the name of the therapy is Rigvir?

Jonathan:  Yes. Chemo is obviously like a carpet bomb to the whole body. Whereas, if you could have something specifically targeting cancer cells, and that would be the holy grail right there. By the way, that's exactly what I'm saying that urine-derived stem cells do. That is going to be something that you going to want to talk about, by the way, but I'll come back to that. Because I think urine-derived stem cells are like something like Rigvir on steroids as far as I'm concerned. 

But, come back to Rigvir, it's an echovirus from healthy children's intestines, and it's injected into the cancer patient because it's oncolytic, which means it specifically targets cancer cells, and then oncotropic, which means it specifically kills cancer cells. And so, it's the treatment in Latvia for melanoma and sarcoma, and the government pays for it. So, it shows you that like a country that basically has banned GMOs, adopting some of these really fantastic therapies. So, that's an example. And, Dr. Tel-Oren is the only one that I know of that's doing it in America. Dr. Adiel Tel-Oren, an Israeli doctor, very smart individual.

Ben:  R-I-G-V-I-R?

Jonathan:  Yes, exactly. But, I mean, I don't know of anyone else that sourcing it there. And, that's why I'm so much alerting people to some of these therapies that everyone can do and that they're completely autologous.

Ben:  And, pee is free.

Jonathan:  Exactly. And, there's nothing that signals the body like it as far as I'm concerned. Do you know that mesenchymal stem cells will actually aim at tumors? 

Ben:  No.

Jonathan:  They just go for them. And, do you know that the studies are actually showing that mesenchymal stem cells actually instruct the tumor of what they should be? Do you know that tumors behave like amoebas? Like one-celled amoebas, they don't know what they are, and they need to know what they should become.

Ben:  Okay. So, this begs the question. I don't know if you've thought about this. There's obviously some plant-derived compounds that have been shown demonstrably, I think in some cases in vivo definitely in vitro, to kill cancer stem cells, like curcumin and green, speak of the devil green tea, like the EGCG from green tea, and a black pepper extract, sulforaphane, resveratrol. If you were consuming these compounds orally, would you wind up with metabolites of them in your urine that would make your urine even more medicinal against cancer? Have you ever thought about that or seen studies on something like that?

Jonathan:  I love how you're thinking about that. I have thought about some things just like that but not that exact thing. And, I think that's really quite amazing because it's a two-fold approach as far as I'm concerned with that. Well, mesenchymal stem cells are being used as delivery mechanisms so that when you take a drug and you deliver that with a mesenchymal stem cell, it will then go specifically and attach to the tumor, and the drug will be effective. And, in this case, the drug could be a natural substance like berberine or curcumin, which have got clinical studies to back the fact that they kill these cancer stem cells and metformin and some of the drugs as well like mebendazole, the human version of fenbendazole that has been attributed to saving so many people's lives, which is dewormer.

So, I believe 100%, that that's exactly why we should combine therapies like that because this one here that I have in my notes here, I mean this is the most amazing aspect that I've found of what they were finding here. This here was showing another report presented at the annual meeting for the Federation of American Society for Experimental Biology in Atlantic City, USA in April of 1966 under the heading bringing cancer cells into line gives the account of research showing the effect of human urine on cancer cells. The two researchers found unexpectedly last year that urine extracts which they called DIRECTIN, which is basically a name based on what it was doing. When added to the culture medium, caused all the cancer cells on which it had so far been tested to align themselves end-to-end into straight rows.

Ben:  Wait, let me read that last sentence. So, I want to read this last sentence. This is crazy. “The researchers have found that the normal human urine contains valuable ingredients or elements which are capable of curing deadly or killer diseases.” Huh, wow. You know what I think is the most interesting part about this, so you're talking about how many of these pharmaceutical drugs they are urine-derived. I never really thought about that nor did I think about the fact of why in the same case that there are some curcumin extracts and even cannabis extracts that are pharmaceutical-derived but you could obviously grow your own bud and eat a root of turmeric. It's kind of a similar concept as far as the urine therapy goes.

Now, back to my question about stem cells, for example, have you ever thought rather than orally consuming urine to do nebulizing or intranasal spray or something like that?

Jonathan:  I think it's amazing to get into the lungs, for example, to get the brainstem and particularly of the aged urine. That's where you got to kind of look at some of the applications there because if you look at the case studies of people using aged urine, they're kind of just jaw-dropping because it's basically amniotic fluid, but it's autologous. It's from you and it's so rich in the evolved stem cells. Imagine, I mean, this has been there for two months.

Ben:  That's at room temperature or you keep that cold?

Jonathan:  Yeah, exactly. It's room temperature. Every aspect of that Wake Forest study, I'm not going to replicate because I don't want to put chemicals in it. But, I'm saying I'm replicating biology by doing that. I just want to show that it validates, that it does have the stem cells. I'd like to prove that. But, it's clear to me that they're in there based on that study and urine naturally as preservative. So, it cultures itself by fermentation, becomes more and more alkaline as it goes as well.

Ben:  Yeah, that's super interesting.

Now, there's obviously so many cancer remedies out there and alternative cancer therapies and clinics and things like that. And, I know sometimes it can be dizzying. I mean, your whole documentary, “The Truth About Cancer” alone must have 40 different remedies in there. So, I'm curious.

Jonathan:  Exactly.

Ben:  My friend, Dr. Mercola, recently interviewed Dr. Nasha Winters who was talking for her metabolic health day announcement about how she's working on a kind of cutting-edge cancer treatment facility in Arizona. In your travels and the people that you've talked to, are there places that you're aware of like a center or a resort or retreat where people could go and have a lot of these more alternative remedies administered and overseen by a professional medical team or something like that?

Jonathan:  There's a lot of places like that. One of them the Hope4Cancer Center where Dr. Toni Jimenez is doing a method.

Ben:  Wait, wait, wait. You said you said Hope4Cancer. Is that the one that's Hope with the number 4 Cancer?

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Okay.

Jonathan:  Yeah, exactly. It's in Cancun and in Tijuana. And so, there's an example. It costs a good chunk of money. And so, if people have that, then they can do that. But, I can tell you that even at the Hope4Cancer Center, which is probably the world's largest holistic cancer therapy center, Dr. Toni Jimenez has got me flying out to educate all the doctors on the science behind urine therapy even though he's a pioneer of a certain extraction, which I'm really excited about from a mission perspective to actually do a clinical study. And so, we were just talking about this over the last couple of weeks and he's very excited to move that forward. But, for me, the whole mission there is to show people how this can be done from home and so we can change people's lifestyles. And so, that's one that I know of. 

There's a few down there in Tijuana. There's Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski clinic out of Houston, Texas. And, I went to court with him actually in Austin. I think it was in Austin where Texas Medical Board were trying to get his license off him, but he was using the urine extracts as well for cancer called the antineoplastons both from human and horse urine of all things. And, his brain cancer results were kind of basically the world-leading results that people would all reference and used. 

So, there's several different clinics and people have to do their own due diligence. And, a lot of these place is my encouragement. Let's say someone was going [01:01:57] _____ therapy center so they could do all the green juices and the coffee enemas and things like that. One is someone's going to the coffee enema on 100% say that the urine with the coffee is just quite miraculous.

Ben:  I do coffee enemas. I might try that. I know people are laughing and sounds like I'm just like being convinced on air by some dude to shove my own pee up my butt. But again, in all seriousness, I actually do try, just as an N equals 1, a lot of the stuff that I talk with folks about on a podcast. So, I'll try it, honestly.

Jonathan:  That's awesome, man. Now, you'll get amazing benefits. Exactly, yeah. People laughing about that don't realize that it just makes sense. “Ben just got convinced by this guy.” Well, no, not really. Ben saw me aligned facts that aligned with his origins and biology and the fact that this is something that he realized that he did since he was a baby and he's just lost the art of that method of healing. And so, we're just relearning it. That's different.

Ben:  I'm glad you brought that up, Jonathan because, again, I don't want to toot my own horn, but I will admit, I think a lot of people don't realize that I spent five years getting a degree in physiology, biomechanics, and pharmacology with advanced 400 and 500 level courses in biochemistry, microbiology, organic chemistry, and full pre-med coursework, including overseeing and TAing the anatomy and physiology lab at University of Idaho for two years and graduating as the top senior at University of Idaho in the scientific fields with a 4.0 GPA in my science certificates and degrees or classes.

Jonathan:  Wow. That's amazing.

Ben:  So, I actually do have an understanding of this stuff, so it's hard to pull the wool over my eyes, so to speak, and I'm certainly seeing some very interesting data in this research that you've shared with me. And so, I just want to name that not to brag, but to let people know I'm not just running down controversial conspiracy theory-style websites and interviewing freaks all day, I take a deep look at the research. And, Jonathan wants to share 50 PubMed studies with me in the past three days alone, almost all of which or all of which I'll link to in the shownotes at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto.

Jonathan, we could go on and on, we're running out of time here, but you have a lot of courses. You have that Bible Health Secrets one, which as a Christian, myself, I thought was super interesting. You have one called the New Hope Series about spike protein and shedding a very controversial topic that you get into on that. You have one about detox and healing methods, then you have a new program coming out as well, right?

Jonathan:  Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing those resources because I'd really just want people to get all these resources and that's why we've made it available free as well because I just believe that everyone deserves answers and healing and to put an end to their suffering. And so, yeah, we've got all those series, documentary series available. So, you see all the doctors that are my colleagues, my friends, you see all the case studies where we validate this with real-life people that have gone through all these kinds of life-threatening challenges in cases we document in real time. And so, my method of delivery has been through documentary series because I find them very entertaining myself. I enjoy watching them.

Ben:  Yeah, they're fantastic. By the way, I've had a chance to take a deep dive. What's the new one? What's the new series that you're doing?

Jonathan:  It's called Healing Genesis. And, people can actually get it from just going to healingseries.com/Ben. So, that's healingseries.com/Ben.

Ben:  Okay.

Jonathan:  And so, that details everything that we're talking about here. It goes into more detail on basically all the issues with how this is showing up systematically. For example, the venoms, if people want to understand how that works and why this is kind of connected to so many different disease processes. The reason why we're saying something like Parkinson's disease or cancer, why there's studies that show nicotine effective against them, it's not because nicotine is some magical mineral that helps the brain so much, it's actually because it competes for the same receptor. Then that receptor that has been inbound to it will drop that in exchange for the nicotine. That makes way more sense why all these people getting their lives back, whether it'd be post-COVID or an autoimmune condition or even the case of Parkinson's and Tourette Syndrome. Look at all the studies, they all exist, why is nicotine working? So, we detail that and how we've got real-life case studies to back it up, people's lives that have been saved and changed, these chronic conditions when people stopped breathing. The asthma, they need these types of therapies to get through that. And then, the urine therapy and all of these things, we detail them in the program.

Ben:  Yeah, I like your programs. You got little books and transcripts. I don't like the video, I like the audio because I can listen while I'm hiking or on a bike ride or in the gym or whatever, but they're really fantastic. You gave me access a few days ago and I kind of surfed through it all and must have binge-watched half that Bible Health Secret series. It's fascinating stuff, really outside the box, obviously, as those you listening can probably suspect based on listening to some of Jonathan's research here. But, I'm going to link to all this at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto, O-T-T-O. And, if anybody feels like joining me in an experiment of drinking your own urine, and don't spoil the whole coffee pot, but try to put a little urine in your own private coffee enema. That could be interesting also. I'm going to try it. I'll report back, Jonathan, okay?

Jonathan:  Well, that's awesome, man.

Ben:   So, I'll tell you what, send that stuff to me. I'll put that in the shownotes. For everybody listening, those are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto, O-T-T-O. You can also leave questions for Jonathan and I whether it'd be the subtle nuances of nicotine patches or how to administer a urine enema or you can just scream at him about all the silly remedies. You pick. But anyways, I've been very impressed with what I've seen from Jonathan. And so, I highly recommend you check them out as controversial as he is. He's an outside-the-box thinker and I respect that. So, Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

Jonathan:  Thank you so much, Ben. It's wonderful to be here. And, just to cliffhang on that last thing, if people have vaccine injuries, just look at the therapies that we just shared. They absolutely work. I've seen basically more than I can count of complete reversals. I yet have not seen someone that hasn't worked for. So, that's what I just want to leave people with. If people are suffering, that could be a life changer, the use of therapies that we just talked about. Yeah. Thank you, brother, for having me. Man, God bless you, and especially your dad.

Ben:  Yeah. Yeah, I'll be sending this to him. I'm going to buy that book as soon as you're hanging up, “Your Own Perfect Medicine.”

Alright, Jonathan. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate you and your concern and your research, brother. You're doing great work, so keep it up.

Jonathan:  Thanks, Ben. God bless you, man.

Ben:  Alright, folks. I'm Ben Greenfield, Jonathan Otto signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com/Otto, O-T-T-O. Have an amazing week.

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