April 2, 2022
[00:00:56] Podcast Sponsors
[00:05:36] Podcast and Guest Introduction
[00:07:13] How Dr. Adelson became involved in stem cell therapy
[00:11:03] How the stem cell industry continues to evolve
[00:16:39] The Stem Cell Therapy Sequence
[00:19:59] Why People Would Seek Stem Cell Therapy
[00:23:04] Aesthetic And Sexual Effects Of Amy's Portion Of The Treatment
[00:26:30] Podcast Sponsors
[00:29:32] How You Feel After The Procedure
[00:33:50] Does it matter where the stem cells come from?
[00:35:10] Biohacks to stack with stem cell therapy
[00:40:15] Tithing Program
[00:43:33] How To Find Out More About Docere Clinics
[00:43:59] End of Podcast
Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.
Harry: I do a lot fewer discs just because by the time people get to the point where they have severe burning in both hands.
By the time they have that, they're usually getting their neck fused anyway.
Concentrate these VSELs. Anytime you do PRP, you're concentrating the VSELs but they're completely asleep.
Getting people out of pain is a gift. Even if you have something that's the most wonderful development in medicine, if someone can't afford it, it doesn't do them any good.
Ben: Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.
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Actually, we were talking about this just a few minutes ago off camera, off recording around four or five years or so since I've visited Park City where there is a very special procedure that I discovered a few years ago I did a whole story on it. I came down here and I did what's called a Full Body Stem Cell Makeover where the two physicians sitting right here with me basically went head to toe, soup to nuts, and did my entire body with stem cells. And, since then, a lot has happened in terms of the science of stem cells and regenerative medicine in terms of what's used, how the protocol goes, and oh, my gosh, if you're actually interested in things like pain management with age, the whole anti-aging and longevity thing but kind of the pointy edge of it, sexual performance, aesthetics, this is basically the creme de la creme of protocols. But, it's really kind of difficult to wrap your head around everything that goes on and how this thing actually came to exist. So, I've got Dr. Amy Killen and Dr. Harry Adelson with me today. And, after we record this podcast, we're actually about to go in. and, I'm super grumpy because I haven't been able to have breakfast this morning and I got to do all these special things to get ready to go under anesthesia and get this protocol done on me.
So, that being said, the history of this is super interesting because did it start with you being injured, Harry?
Harry: Pretty much, yeah. So, I had a rock-climbing injury back when I was in my first year of naturopathic school and I tore the labrum in my shoulder. And, I was getting ready to do this big climbing trip to France, which is the birthplace of modern sport climbing. And, I tore my labrum and my shoulder, and I saw an orthopedic surgeon and he said, “Well, I can put a scope in there and I can cut away a piece of cartilage, help you in the short-term but it's going to give you problems later in life. Alternately, I can give you steroid injection. Similarly, it'll help in the short-term, but it's actually going to further degenerate your cartilage.”
Ben: Wait. I knew that about the cortisol, but the scopes that can also be something that comes back to bite you.
Harry: Well, you're cutting stuff away and you need that stuff later in life.
Ben: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Okay.
Harry: So then, the evolution of full body stem cell makeover was in the early days back in 2010, 2011 when I was first starting, very few people had heard of stem cell therapy in the United States. So, the only people who were coming to me were cowboys, were Wyoming ranchers. And, the reason for that was because there was a large animal veterinarian up there who was doing stem cells on horses. And, these guys had these very expensive workhorses who were getting old and couldn't work anymore and they wanted to get a couple more years out of them. And, they'd take them to this guy and he would do stem cells on the horses and they could see with their eyes, then the horse couldn't work and now it could work. And so, they'd say to this guy, “Well, can't you do that to my low back and my neck?” And, the guy would say, “Well, no, I can't because I'm a veterinarian.” But, there's a guy in Park City doing it, go to him.
Harry: So, I started getting these busted-up cowboys who just had literally arthritis throughout their entire bodies. So, I do these huge treatments, I do their neck, and their low back, and both hips, and their knees, and both shoulders. And, completely as a joke, I started calling a full body stem cell makeover really like tongue and cheek.
Harry: Well, then I started getting the biohackers in. And, I would get people say, “Well, can't you just do my whole-body sort of preventatively?” And, I thought–
Ben: Sounds like a question a biohacker would ask.
Harry: Yeah. And, I thought, yeah, actually I can, I've been doing it for years. I mean, I think you were the second or third person to get a full-body stem cell makeover.
Harry: Close to five years ago. And–
Ben: Because I proceeded with great caution with everything for someone who've done the protocol hundreds of times before. It's actually done on me. But, quick thing back in 2010 when you were saying you were treating these cowboys, you alluded to the fact that not a lot of people were doing stuff like this in the United States. And, to my recollection back in 2010, this was when you heard about cats like Peyton Manning, or your guys in the NFL, or the NBA actually going overseas to get stem cells done. Now, At this point, was that kind of most of where people were going for stem cells?
Harry: Yeah. There was just a small number of people doing it in the U.S. I was about number 10 or so. And, nobody was really sharing any information. That's why those first years, I would do a month at home and my practice was slow because I had to burn the ship's approach. I just did stem cells. And so, I would do a month here and then I'd alternate months and I'd go travel through South America learning from the maestros. And, there was a lot being done overseas. So, a lot of those guys would go, some of them were going to Europe, not so much for stem cells, more for these kind of turbo PRP-type treatments.
Harry: But, a lot of those pro athletes were going to South America because it's been big in South America for a long time.
Ben: I assume it was legal in the U.S. when you were doing it. Unless you wanted me on a podcast, you're breaking water.
Harry: Yeah. This is a new field and it's evolving and there's certain elements that are clearly legal, and there's others that are a bit of a gray area, and then there's other things that are not legal that clearly we do not do. So, the main thing that you can do abroad that you cannot do in the United States is culture expansion of stem cells.
Harry: So that means either you take a person's own stem cells or you take stem cells from an umbilical cord and you grow them in the laboratory. So, you get these massive doses, these 200 million stem cells, and then deliver that. We cannot do that in the United States.
Ben: Now, the VSELs, where do those come from and where do those fit in? What exactly are the VSELs?
Amy: So, the VSEL stands for a very small embryonic-like stem cell. And, these are stem cells that are actually in your blood, but they live in this kind of hibernation state, this quiescent state where they're not active but they're just there. And, the interesting thing about VSELs is they're actually more primitive than the mesenchymal stem cells that we get from your bone marrow, which means that they actually have the ability to differentiate or become other types of cells more easily and they also seem to be more active and have more signaling ability.
And so, the problem was in the past, we didn't know how to activate VSELs. We could take your blood and they're in there but they're hiding and they're not doing anything.
Amy: But, there's been a few things over the years that different protocols that have made it easier to activate those VSELs and to make them start proliferating and dividing and becoming more active. And so, the one we use is a laser by Dr. Todd Ovokaitys. And, we essentially laser activate the PRP from your blood and sort of turn on these VSELs. And, we use that–
Ben: So, you're taking the plasma, my plasma.
Amy: Your plasma.
Ben: Blasting it with a laser light. And, that's activating these very small embryonic-like stem cells in the plasma to be able to do what?
Amy: To do the same types of things we're trying to get any of the stem cells to do. So, to signal, repair, regeneration, healing, to signal improve blood flow, all the things depending on where we're putting them. The idea is that they may be acting like other stem cells, but they may have more activity even than the stem cells in your bone marrow or your fat.
Ben: Now, I talked to a guy a long time ago about VSELs and he was telling me, it was doc, and he was telling me that he would take blood out and freeze it overnight to stress the blood. So, could you say that basically what you're doing is stressing the blood, in this case, with lasers or you could stress the blood with cold? I don't know you could stress the blood with having to run a marathon or whatever to activate these VSELs.
Amy: Yeah. Some of the other protocols involve like heat and cold and kind of going back and forth between heat and cold. So, it's kind of what people do with their saunas and their cold plunges, but it's on a smaller level.
Ben: Okay, super interesting. Now, how new is this whole VSEL thing? Is this pretty cutting-edge?
Harry: I think VSELs were first described in the scientific literature in 2008.
Harry: And, like Amy was saying, I had heard of some protocols of how to prepare the VSEL. Freezing the blood and thawing it, but it was very time-intensive and it required that you would keep the blood overnight. Well, then you have this whole issue of whether or not you're a blood bank now. Because when you keep stuff overnight, it sort of changes the whole picture of what it is that you're doing. So, we were very excited when we heard about Todd Ovokaitys who developed this laser that–
Ben: Todd Ovokaitys.
Harry: Todd Ovokaitys . I think his website is Dr. Todd.
Harry: And, he along with award-winning physicist developed this laser that actually activates the VSELs, the very small embryonic-like stem cells. And, the way we know, he actually has peer-reviewed published data showing that when you zap, like Amy was saying, you concentrate these VSELs. Anytime you do PRP, you're concentrating the VSELs but they're completely asleep. But, when you zap them with the laser, they grow 100x.
Harry: So, they measure the number before and after zapping. And, if the population grows 100x, it means they're activated. And, just what you're saying about the freezing and thawing, how that's similar, really I mean that's biohacking and that's why possibly one of the major advantages to a lot of things like cold plunges and that sort of thing, the benefits that you get actually is because of the activation of your own endogenous VSELs.
Ben: No kidding. Okay. Now, I'm just going to tell people I wake up and do some VSELing. You're real at biohacking. We're just all VSELing.
Okay. So, what actually happens in there in that secret room once you actually get me on the table and you have all this different stuff? What's the actual sequence? Obviously, there's two of you, so each of you are doing different things. But, you can each kind of explain what your unique flavor of makeover is. But, explain what's going on.
Harry: Yeah, sure. So, during your treatment today, we'll actually create a time-lapse video. So, we'll probably show it at this point. But, essentially–
Ben: Yeah. And, by the way, I'm going to make a link for everybody who's listening or watching. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/StemCellpodcast. It's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/StemCellpodcast. I'll link to videos, and time lapse stuff that Harry's talking about. We did another episode a long time ago getting more into the history of this. So, I'll put all that in there at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/StemCellpodcast. But, go ahead, Harry.
Harry: Yeah. So, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to do what we call an ozone dialysis, also called EBO2, extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation. So, we're going to essentially purify your blood. We hook you up to an oz dialysis machine, the blood is pumped out of one arm, it passes through a box where the blood is bombarded with ultraviolet radiation, then it passes through a filter where the blood is filtered and impregnated with ozone gas. Passes through another box–
Ben: Pregnant with gas. I like it.
Harry: I know it gets some second-grade humor with that. Then it passes through another lightbox that bombards the blood with far infrared red-light therapy, which is just regular red-light therapy, except we're treating the blood. So, we run that for 45 minutes. So, we're treating your entire blood supply. So, when we do this big bone marrow aspiration, which is comprised largely of blood, it's really purified blood.
Ben: So, you're almost like doing an oil change for my blood.
Harry: Yeah, exactly.
Ben: That's pretty cool.
Harry: Yeah. I mean, that's the best way to describe it.
Ben: Yeah. But, you do it before the surgery.
Harry: Immediately before.
Ben: So, you get a higher quality bone marrow aspirate when you do that.
Harry: Then, we get you on the table, you go to sleep. We have a board-certified anesthesiologist who puts you to sleep. I'll do the bone marrow aspiration–
Ben: [00:17:56] ______ self-hypnosis thing. Pretty good at that. I'll cut myself down. I'll be good. Trust me. I won't feel a thing.
Harry: Box breathing.
Ben: Yeah. Just have a sledgehammer on hand just in case.
Harry: I told you the bone marrow.
Harry: We'll have already drawn your blood during the EBO2. Then, we'll prepare the bone marrow, make it with the VSEL, with the exosomes, then we'll start injecting the entire length of your spine. First, we'll do epidurals, stem cell epidural injection. So, putting stem cells in the epidural space. And, that's to help with arthritis because a major part of arthritis is that central stenosis narrowing of the spinal canal. So, we'll do epidurals in the low back and the neck, then we'll do facet injections starting at C1, C2 and then every level both sides all the way down, SI ligament both sides, iliolumbar ligament both sides.
Harry: During that time, Amy's already doing your scalp. Then, we'll flip you over, do both shoulders, both elbows, both wrists and thumbs, both hips, both knees, both ankles, and great toe. And, that's my part.
Amy: And then, kind of while that's happening, I'll do facial injections, then I'll do micro-needling in the face and neck and apply the stem cells and exosomes topically. So, we're kind of getting all levels of the skin, the deeper skin and the outer skin. And then, the variant, we have everyone leave except for me and the anesthesia guy. And, I'll do the penis injections and then the shockwave therapy at the end.
Ben: I'm glad I at least have my privacy for the penis injections. You do the great toe, but not the other toes, Harry. You went through that pretty quickly.
Harry: I do the great–
Ben: The other toe is not important, you just going to leave them out.
Harry: If somebody has a problem with the other toes, we will do it. But, I don't routinely do it because the great toe is so often an arthritic joint–
Ben: Right. It is. It's the one where people have the most issues.
Harry: If someone has issues, then we'll do it. I mean, clearly, we take requests. We do a lot of intervertebral disc injections. But, unless somebody really needs–
Ben: So, someone could come in and do this and be like, “Hey, this is a part of my body that I have a big problem with, more pain with. It needs a little more TLC. You can focus a little bit more on that area.”
Ben: Because you talked about the beat-up cowboys, and obviously I would imagine, and maybe this is just my romanticized idea of a beat-up cowboy, these guys just hobbling in with a shoulder, knee, and back, and a whole bunch of stuff. But, what are some of, to be more specific, the general reasons that someone will come in for this besides the whole just like anti-aging, longevity, keep my stem cell pool up? Because I know a lot of biohackers are going for that. But, what are some other things that this is effective for that kind of like your shoulder story you were telling people would come and do instead of doing a scope or instead of doing a cortisol injection?
Harry: Sure. About half our practice now is full body stem cell makeover, and about half of those guys are busted up cowboys, and the other half are biohackers who are in pretty good shape but want to do it more preventatively. However, we still do site-specific. I sometimes call it a la carte treatments where we'll do someone's low back.
Usually, we don't just do one area because most people have a couple areas. But, frequently we'll do low back and a knee or something like that, just a couple of areas. We sort of specialize in spine, so we're one of the few places in the country that actually injects intervertebral discs.
Harry: And, that's probably something we do. And, I would say that's something we do a lot of to answer your question.
Ben: So, that's going to be like disc degeneration or just general low back pain?
Harry: That's why it's important to do a history because there's two ways that a disc can cause pain. One is if it's herniated. If it's poking out and it's pressing on a nerve root, then that's causing leg pain. We don't usually inject the disc for that because we would risk making the herniation worse, but we would do epidurals to help try to shrink the disc.
Harry: However, if somebody has true disc pain and that's usually caused by desiccation, dehydration of the disc, and that's characterized, the hallmark is sort of that midline pain worse bending forward and especially holding a baby out in front, holding a weight in front and leaning slightly forward like putting a baby in a crib, for instance.
Harry: Midline pain, worse bending forward. That's always disc pain. And, that's in the low back when we'll inject the disc. In the neck, I do a lot fewer discs just because by the time people get to the point where they have severe burning in both hands, and that's kind of the rubric for that. By the time they have that, they're usually getting their neck fused anyway. But, if I get them, we actually do quite well doing cervical discs as well.
Ben: What about athletes with cartilage or meniscal issues, things like that?
Harry: Yeah. We do great with sort of chronic issues. I don't really treat acute injuries. So, if somebody–
Ben: Right, like ACL tear or something like that.
Harry: Yeah. Because frequently, that needs surgery or if it's a rotator cuff tear, for instance, it might get better. You can live just fine with a rotator cuff tear. So, there's no reason to do it acutely because you might get better or you might need surgery. So, I usually wait. The person has to have the issue for at least a year before we think about [00:23:03] _____–
Ben: Okay, make sense.
Amy, describe to me what happens aesthetically as a result and describing what happens sexually as a result from doing what you're doing while Harry's doing all the drugs, everything.
Amy: Well, the scalp injections are for hair restoration or for just helping hair to be thicker and healthier. So, depending on if you have hair loss or not. They can help with that.
Ben: I'm growing my hair out.
Amy: I know. I've been–
Ben: So, we're just pushing the gas pedal on.
Amy: I've been watching your content. It's looking fabulous. The facial injections and micro-needling are just to help with the health of the skin. So, we're really targeting the skin itself. So, we're trying to help with the texture, the tone, the sort of evenness of the skin, the glow of the skin.
Ben: What about wrinkles? Does it help with wrinkling?
Amy: It helps with fine lines and wrinkles. It's not as good at giving back volume as a filler like [00:23:53] _____ or something. Botox is different and that's stopping the wrinkles from moving at all, the muscles from moving. So, those things are a little bit different. So, if you need volume or if you need a facelift, this is not going to give those things. However, it's great for just making your skin healthier and look healthier actually be healthier because you're increasing collagen and elastin and hyaluronic acid, which are all parts of skin that start to decline after age 25 or so.
Ben: Now, is this kind of, like you see in magazines, the Hollywood secrets and what they do to stay young? Is this the kind of stuff they're doing like–
Amy: It's the kind of stuff, yeah. There's usually a combination approach. It's like anything else, it's not one thing, but stem cells and PRP and exosomes are great for making your skin just look glowy, and fresh, and more youthful. And then, you can always add in other things, laser, Botox, or filler. Yeah, depending on kind of your appetite for those things.
Ben: Okay, okay. And so, that's the beauty component. And then, what are the effects of what you're doing from a sexual standpoint?
Amy: So, it kind of depends on what's happening. If you have someone who's really not having a lot of problems like Harry mentioned, then usually the feedback is that things just feel better like improved sensation, improved orgasms.
Ben: That's similar to what happened to me last time. Actually, the two main things I noticed was it felt I had more firmness and hardness and that my orgasms were better.
Ben: Those were the main things. But, what about guys with ED or Peyronie, things like that?
Amy: Yeah. So, we'll treat both of those with ED and Peyronie's, both, I'll usually recommend after we do the injections also doing some shockwave therapy like GAINSWave or similar at home because it really helps to further activate the stem cells that I put in there. But, these are great treatments for those as well. And, I've had a lot of men who had pretty severe ED. And, with a combination approach between the shock wave and the injections and maybe some hormones, we've been able to turn them around completely, which is pretty amazing because that's really important.
Ben: Yeah. And then, what about for women? What goes on there?
Amy: So, with women, I'm injecting the anterior vaginal wall kind of where the g-spot is and then the clitoris. And so, same kind of things. We're still trying to increase blood flow, we're trying to increase the health of the cells in the area. We can also see improvements in stress urinary incontinence. So, women who leak a little bit when they jump or sneeze. If we can kind of support the urethra a little bit with these injections and we can see improvements in that as well. So, same kinds of things improve pleasure and improve ability to orgasm as well, and then the stress here during continence piece.
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Oh, it's no secret I'm a big fan of wine. Not the kind of wine that gives you headaches and that's full of 76 different additives that are actually legally shockingly approved for use in winemaking these days, dyes and thickeners, and GMO, yeast, and that fancy French wine that you've paid for. So, the top 21 sold in the U.S. contain higher levels of sugar and alcohol and it's crazy. It's like drinking a soda. And, if you care about what you put into your body and don't want all this stuff, then you got to go for an alcohol that's organically and biodynamically grown, preferably lower in sugars, lower in alcohol, lab tested for purity, and even created on a smaller family farm for better quality control. Three giant wine companies sell over 50% of U.S. wine, it's crazy.
So, wine is a pretty bastardized industry, but there's this one company, they're called Dry Farm Wines, okay. It's dry because they don't irrigate their crops heavily, so you get a grape that's more concentrated in antioxidants and lower in sugar. They have access to 55,000 acres of organic vineyards. Okay, their growers farm roughly 7% of all the organic farms in Europe. So, these small family vineyards preserve healthy soil and dynamic biodiversity. You get the wine, it's old-world biodynamic wine the way wine was meant to be. My wife gets headaches when we go out to a restaurant and order wine. And, when we drink Dry from at home, she's just fine. And, they even have 100% happiness promise. Any bottle you don't love, they'll replace a refund at Dry Farm. So, they're going to give you an extra bottle in your first box for a penny. And, that's basically because legally it's alcohol and they can't give it to you for free.
So, Dry Farm Wine is going to give you an extra bottle in your first boxing room for a penny. I get a box every month. It's amazing. It's a no-brainer. So, you can see all the details and claim your bottle for a penny at DryFarmWines.com/BGF. That's DryFarmWines.com/BGF.
I have some logistical questions. So, I got my head wrapped around everything that's going on now. And, yeah, we didn't talk about VSELs and stuff the last time I was here. So, these are some new things that you're doing now. But, some logistical questions.
First of all, what do people feel like after they do this? Because a lot of people are like, “Well, how many days do I need to schedule? Is this like a surgery or I'm in bed for two weeks after?” So, talk to me about what happens after.
Harry: Yeah, it's a commitment. So, frequently, this is not something that you just decide you're going to do and come in the next week. This is–
Ben: I did break the rules of Spartan Race last time five days after, but that was not recommended. Well, Harry and I were talking before we came in here, I actually, I messed up my ankle pretty good because everything's wobbly and weak–
Harry: And, there's fluid in there. Yeah. So, you're actually at increased risk of injury for a little while.
Ben: But, I was contracted to do this race because that was back when I was racing for the pro team. So, I literally just taped up my whole body and all the Kinesio tape and the braces, went out there and raced to the mountains. And, I think I came in fifth or sixth place or something like that. So, I made it, but I felt super beat up after. So, anyways, back to your explanation what the gold standard recovery would be.
Harry: Yeah. So, the short version is one week. So, the way that this treatment works is we're tricking your body into thinking that you've had a new injury without actually having caused any tissue insult. So, you get all the benefit of a healing reaction without actually having been hurt.
Ben: Which by the way, sorry to interrupt, is important because this has happened to a lot of people I've talked to, it's happened to me. You get a stem cell injection and a part of your body that had been injured way back in the day flares up, and a lot of people freak out. They're like, “Doc, you re-injured me.” But, it's actually the body remembering going back and repairing something that needs. Is that a good way to describe it?
Harry: Yeah. The first two months is a roller coaster. You have good days. You have bad days. Things are worse. Things are better. It's weird. But–
Ben: The first two months after protocol.
Harry: Yeah. So, basically, the thumbnail is one week of taking it very easy. I mean, really convalescing. And, I don't mean bed rest. You want to be up and moving.
Ben: No CrossFit.
Harry: Nothing that's going to contuse your joint surfaces, your spine. Second week, you kind of reintroduce normal daily activity. And then, two months no new injuries. So, no falling on your keister. I wouldn't do any mountain biking. I wouldn't even really ski or snowboard because if someone collides into you, you want to really give yourself. And, the people who are the most disciplined about those two months of movement, and you can do strength training and all that, but just nothing where you actually have the potential of getting injured, those are the people who do the best.
Ben: Okay. Alright. What about sex? Can you have sex after?
Amy: You can. Yeah, from my perspective, my procedure is there's no downtime.
Amy: If it wasn't for everything else going on, you could have sex right afterwards. You could run a marathon afterwards. You could do anything.
Ben: Just don't have sex on a mountain bike or rock climbing.
Amy: I wouldn't mind seeing that.
Harry: [00:32:30] _____ stuff.
Ben: Right, right. Just for the Instagrams.
And so, another logistical question. Let's talk about insurance, payments, investments. What are people expecting out of this as far as what it actually cost?
Harry: Yeah. This is considered experimental. Insurance does not pay for it at all. So, this is entirely out of pocket.
Ben: Okay, got it. Ballpark for this type of protocols because I think you have different levels, right?
Ben: So, talk me through that.
Harry: Yeah. Let's back up. So, if someone's just treating their knee or their low back or something, the biggest expense is getting started, harvesting the stem cells, preparing the stem cells, renting out the room, getting anesthesia here, everything else. So, it starts at about between $20,000 and $25,000. For a more complex case is more $30 000. Full body stem cell makeover, if it's just me doing the orthopedic, starts at $40,000. If it's the two of us, we call out a four hands.
Ben: Four hands.
Ben: Is that because there's two of you? I was going to say four of you.
Harry: Yeah, that's $60,000. And, I say it starts at $60,000 because it can go up. If people want to use additional vials of exosomes, then we can do that. But, starts at $40,000 or $60,000.
Ben: Got you.
And, does it matter? You talk about exosomes, and placental matrix, and some of these things. Does it matter where you get that stuff from?
Harry: Oh, absolutely.
Ben: Because I've been to some conferences and talked to some doctors about, what's the comment like, a chimera guy or there's other companies. So, how do you know what's good?
Harry: A lot of due diligence. Actually, visiting the facility type due diligence because there's a broad spectrum. Now, a lot of the really, I hate to use the term bad actors, but some of the real businesses that needed to be put out of business have been put out of business. So, the ones that are left are at least reasonably reputable. But, some more than others. We currently use Organicell. And, they're furthest along in sort of the FDA approval pathway.
Ben: That's for the exosomes, Organicell.
Harry: Yeah, that's the company that we use. And, we feel very good about using them. We use them on ourselves. We use them on our parents.
Ben: Okay. What about the placental matrix? Does that matter?
Harry: The Organicell product is a combination of exosomes with placental matrix, so it comes in one vial.
Ben: Okay. I'm very picky about my placentas. I only want them to come from finely raised placenta sources. Organic, no pesticides, no herbicides on my placenta.
Now, you talk about biohackers who will come in and do something like this. Obviously, biohackers also like their cryotherapy, their infrared light, they're jumping up and down a trampoline. I saw one of those in your office. What are things that you could stack with something like this to make it even better? What have you found some of these super smart cats, these biohackers who are coming in to be treated by you? Are there things that they're doing in addition to this that amplify the effectiveness of it?
Harry: Well, personally, I generally get two types of people in here: people who are doing all of that stuff and know far better than I do what works well for them and people who even if I recommended this type of stuff to them, they wouldn't do it anyway. So, I generally don't make a lot of recommendations. I think all of that stuff is good. The one recommendation I do make is not doing multi-day fasting before you come in. Because I find if people do multi-day fasting before the procedure–
Ben: You bastard you told me not to eat breakfast this morning.
Harry: The multi-day. So, yeah, you need to be NPO the morning–
Ben: For me, not eating breakfast is basically just as bad as multi-day.
Harry: Yeah, you need to not eat the morning of your procedure. But, if people do a four-day fast leading up to it, it's really hard for them to sort of bounce back. They're really, really weak afterwards.
Harry: So, that's really the only thing that I sort of advice people because most of the people who are coming to us are doing all this great stuff. And, I think it's all helpful.
Amy: I'm a big fan of red-light therapy afterwards.
Amy: Especially for the skin stuff because we know that can help with healing time and decrease bruising and just kind of helping to activate the stem cells in the skin. So, I like the red-light therapy afterwards. And, I also like that some sort of nitric oxide booster supplements before and continuing on afterwards because we know nitric oxide works in combination with stem cells to active them–
Ben: Like arginine, beetroots, things like that.
Amy: Exactly, yeah. Exactly.
Ben: Okay, got it. What about pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, PEMF? I've heard a lot of people talk about how that mobilizes stem cells or helps with stem cells. If you do it along the femur, trigger some kind of release by the bone marrow. Is that something that you guys have looked into it all? Do you have anybody come in and then go lay on PEMF after, anything like that?
Amy: We don't have any here in the office. People definitely do it before and after. And, I think I like PEMF. I have one at home myself. But, we haven't experimented to see kind of benefits.
Harry: Generally leading up to the procedure, I don't want to mobilize stem cells because I want to sneak up on them. I want to catch them by surprise. I want them to all be in the bone marrow, so I can harvest them. There's certain medications you can take that will make the stem cells leave your bone marrow and go into your blood flow. And, there's certain biohacking methods that will do that too. But, I don't really want that because I want to sneak up on them.
Ben: My bone marrow will be good. I'll tell you why, there's this one company, they're totally not sponsoring this podcast or anything like that, but they're called Ancestral Supplements. They make liver and heart and kidney. But, they make these little capsules and they're just bone marrow capsules. And, I'm addicted, I'll pop those candy. I've been eating 20 bone marrow capsules a day for the past month. Honestly, I thought I wonder what bone marrow actually tastes like when it's powdered and it tastes really good. It's got like this umami. So, anyways I literally have been eating bone marrow every day for the past month. So, hopefully, my bone marrow is good.
The other one I want to ask you about was hyperbaric because that's another one. That's a lot of times brought up is something that can help with stem cells. It obviously helps with recovery, so it would be good for maybe some of the incisions or some of the tissue afterwards. But, what about for the stem cell component? Anything to that or do you guys know?
Amy: I think for recovery, it'd be fantastic. We don't have one here, but we definitely looked into that as something that maybe at some point the future will get one because I think the combination, the one-two punch of sort of a stem cell procedure and something like hyperbarics is pretty solid.
Ben: Okay, got it. And then, how long does this actual procedure take? Obviously, we're going from here and you said the EBO was 45 minutes. But then, once I'm out of the EBO, what's the expectation for the full body?
Harry: When it's the two of us, it's about three hours.
Harry: And then, we keep you here another hour or two to wake up.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. So, that's a pretty long period of time.
Harry: Yeah. I mean, that's why it's expensive because it's the two of us working the entire time and it took us years to do it, it's an expensive facility, lots of expensive equipment.
Ben: Yes. So, lots of gadgets here.
Harry: Now, I would like to mention my tithing program.
Harry: I didn't have it up and going the last time you were here.
Harry: But, I have a tithing program. So, back on Christmas eve of 2016, I had a stroke and it turned out the stroke was caused by a bacterial infection of my heart and I required aortic valve replacement. And, it turns out it was from bad dental work. But, I had this open-heart cardiac bypass surgery with the sternotomy. And, after that, I had the opportunity to experience pain that was a 10 out of 10, which I had never experienced before. And, I was laying in this bed just saying like, what's the silver lining here? What's the lesson? Why am I experiencing this? And, what I came up with was that getting people out of pain is a gift. And, even if you have something that's the most wonderful development in medicine, if someone can't afford it, it doesn't do them any good. So, that was the birth of the tithing program.
So, since that time, about the time I met you was about when we launched it. For people who can't afford it, for people who are living below poverty line, first, we just asked to see their taxes to verify that they are in fact living below poverty line. Then, there's two pathways for enrollment. One is for combat service veterans. If you've served this country in combat, I'm happy to do the treatment-free, no charge, and I get everything donated. And so, we're good. The other, if you're not a combat service veteran is I will do it in exchange for documentation of community service hours.
Harry: So, we've been doing that for about four years now. We do one day a month and it's been so much fun to do. We get just the most terrific people in here to do it.
Ben: That's cool. That's admirable. I like that. I also like the ask for verification. If you see somebody pulping a Tesla for their [00:41:49] _____ stem cell protocol, your eyebrow gets raised. Yeah, I like that. That's really cool.
And so, everything from the information on the tithing program to the full-body makeover, to the EBO, everything you guys do here, what is the best place for people to go if they want to just inquire, or find out more, or schedule it? Where do people go–
Harry: It's a 60-minute documentary film that's free to watch, tells the whole story. Amy's in it. That's for people who really want to do a deep dive.
Harry: There's also a link to my eBook, which you have a hard copy there.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. This book. I'll hold it up for those who are watching, it's called “The Stem Cell Solution.” I read it. You and I were at a conference couple months ago, Harry, and you gave it to me. I read it down there at the conference and it's great. If you're going to do the protocol, I'll hold it up for the camera, it's called “Stem Cell Solution.” It appears to be a ripped Santa Claus on the front holding up a paddleboard. And so, that I think if you want to read more information about what we were just talking about and wrap your head around whether or not you'd want to do this or what happens during, that's a good read for the stem cell solution. And, I will also, for the Docere Clinics, people have trouble spelling or remembering Docere, what I'll do is at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/StemCellpodcast, I'll link to all this stuff so you can just hunt it down. And, I'll also link to the other show that I did a long time ago with Harry. You can find out whether or not my voice is higher, or lower, or how much differently we all look. Hopefully, we've all reversed aged by six years since the last show based on everything we've learned.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Awesome, you guys. Thank you so much. And, obviously, if you are watching or listening to this, there'll be some accompanying material because we get some extra photos and some cool, like Harry said, time-lapse and some cool stuff from the actual protocol that we're about to go on and do next. So, it's all going to be at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/StemCellpodcast. Amy and Harry, thank you.
Amy: Thank you.
Harry: Thank you.
Ben: More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot.
2 April 2022
Last week, you may have caught my Instagram Live in which I was dressed in one of those fancy hospital gowns with tubes of blood coming out of my arm. Luckily, I was not, in fact, being hospitalized for a major health condition, but was instead undergoing a blood ozonation and oxygenation protocol in prep for the “Full Body Stem Cell Makeover Protocol” by my friends Dr. Harry Adelson and Dr. Amy Killen.
Here's a brief description of how it works.
First, my blood was “cleaned” with a process called ozone dialysis or EBO2 (extra-corporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation). A dialysis machine basically pumps blood out of one arm into a filter where ozone gas is pumped to “hyper oxygenate” the blood, and the blood then passes through ultraviolet light. This causes the blood to turn from dark red to light red in color, and that light red “clean and filtered” blood is injected back into my body.
Now, this process is done before the Full Body Stem Cell Makeover in order to start the procedure with clean, purified blood.
Next comes the full body stem cell procedure, which, after a bone marrow aspiration, includes “orthopedic” stem cell injections along the spine and in the shoulders, elbows, wrists, thumbs, hips, knees, ankles, and toes; “cosmetic injections” in the scalp, face, neck, decollete; and “sexual injections” as well as shockwave therapy for men.
So, what's the point of this procedure and why would anyone even want to mess around with all these needles?
Typically, Full Body Stem Cell Makeovers are used by either a) those who have full-body arthritis looking for relief, or b) “biohackers” that want to prevent any age-related complications in the future.
I'm in the latter camp, and personally, after two of these procedures now (you can learn more about the first one here), I've experienced an improvement in sleep, faster recovery post-workout, less pain and stiffness in my neck and joints, as well as improved sexual experience in terms of firmness of the erection, the orgasm, etc. It's basically like an oil change for the body, completely non-invasive, pain-free, and easy to do.
All that to say, in today's podcast episode, I'm interviewing the doctors at Docere Clinics behind this stem cell makeover, Dr. Harry Adelson and Dr. Amy Killen.
About Harry Adelson MD:
Dr. Adelson began his training in prolotherapy in 1998 while in his final year at The National College of Naturopathic Medicine, in Portland, Oregon. During his residency program at the Yale/Griffin Hospital in Derby, Connecticut, he volunteered after hours in a large homeless shelter in Bridgeport, Connecticut, providing regenerative injection therapies to the medically underserved while gaining valuable experience. He opened Docere Clinics in Salt Lake City in 2002 and from day one, his practice has been 100% regenerative injection therapies for the treatment of musculoskeletal pain conditions. In 2006, he incorporated platelet-rich plasma and ultrasound-guided injection into his armamentarium, in 2010, bone marrow aspirate concentrate and adipose-derived stem cells, and in 2013, fluoroscopic-guided injection (motion X-ray).
Since February of 2010, Dr. Adelson has performed over 3,000 bone marrow and adipose-derived adult stem cell procedures, placing him among those most experienced in the world with the use of autologous stem cells for the treatment of musculoskeletal pain conditions.
About Dr. Amy Killen:
A board-certified in Emergency Medicine with 10+ years of direct patient care, Dr. Amy Killen has been practicing anti-aging and regenerative medicine for more than five years. She is fellowship-trained through the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine and has done extensive additional training in aesthetics, platelet-rich plasma and stem cells, hair restoration, bio-identical hormones, nutrition, fitness, and sexual health.
Dr. Killen is the Medical Director of BioRestoration Medical, a busy clinic with a comprehensive, integrative approach to health located in Draper, Utah. She also works at Docere Medical in Park City, Utah with Dr. Harry Adelson, providing cutting-edge regenerative medical treatments for a host of different conditions. She has spoken internationally about PRP and stem cells, as well as sexual longevity and skin health. She also teaches physician training courses, outlining current best practices for using regenerative medicine in aesthetics and sexual optimization.
Listen to the previous Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast with Dr. Adelson and Dr. Killen:
- The Single, Most Comprehensive Stem Cell Procedure Known To Humankind: How A “Full Body Stem Cell & Exosome Makeover” Works.
In this episode, you'll discover:
Disclaimer: This podcast episode and supportive materials herein may contain discussions of procedures no longer performed by Docere Clinics due to changes in the regulatory environment. Any patient results or outcomes shared in this video do not reflect the results for the experiences of every patient. Results may vary based on patient age, medical history, and other factors, and include the possibility of no improvement at all.
-How Dr. Adelson became involved in stem cell therapy…07:13
- Rock-climbing accident
- Stem cell therapy was coming of age in the U.S. around 2010
- “Full body stem cell makeover” was a tongue in cheek moniker initially
- Ben was among the first to receive a full-body stem cell makeover (2018)
-How the stem cell industry continues to evolve…11:03
- Culture expansion of stem cells is legal in Europe, illegal in the U.S.
- As we age, stem cells lose ability to manufacture vesicles filled with growth factors called exosomes
- VSEL stem cells are “Very Small Embryonic Like stem cells”
- VSELs are in the blood
- Laser activates PRP from blood to turn on VSELs (stress response)
- VSELs was first described in scientific literature in 2008
- Dr. Todd Ovokaitys developed the laser that activates VSELs
- The Action Of Modulated Laser Light On Human Very Small Embryonic-Like (hVSEL) Stem Cells In Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP)
-The stem cell therapy sequence…16:33
- Link to Timelapse video
- The sequence of therapy:
- Ozone dialysis EBO2 (extracorporeal blood oxygenation) to purify the blood
- Stem cell epidural injection on the back and neck
- Facet injections starting at C1 and C2
- Amy works on scalp, working way down the body
- Facial injections, micro-needling the body
- GAINSWave shock therapy
-Why people would seek stem cell therapy…20:59
- Half of Harry's practice is full-body makeover; half is site-specific (a la carte)
- Specialize in spine stem cell injections
- The two ways that discs cause pain:
- Herniation: poking out and pressing on a nerve root, epidurals to help shrink the disc
- Desiccation (dehydration): true disc pain, low back injection
- Effective on chronic issues
- Acute issues often require surgery
- Have an issue for at least a year before treatment with stem cells
-Aesthetic and sexual effects of Amy's portion of the treatment…23:53
- Beauty component of therapy:
- Scalp injections for hair restoration or to help hair get thicker
- Facial injections and micro-needling helps with skin health; target skin for texture, tone, evenness, glow of the skin
- Helps with fine lines but not with volume or facelift
- Sexual enhancement:
- Improved sensation
- Improved orgasms
- For ED: treatment plus shock wave therapy like GAINSWave at home to further activate the stem cells
- For women inject the G spot area and the clitoris to increase blood flow: improved sensation and orgasm
-How you feel after the procedure…30:21
- Tricking the body to thinking it has a new injury without actually any tissue damage; triggering recovery without being hurt
- First week: taking it very easy
- Second week: re-introduce normal activity
- Should have no new injuries for the first two months
- No downtime for the sexual procedure
- The procedure is considered experimental so it's not covered by insurance; entirely out of pocket
- For localized areas, like knees or low back – $20k to $25k;
- Bulk of expenses is for harvesting and preparing the stem cells, room rental, anesthesia, etc.
- More complex cases start at $30k
- For full body procedure with only Dr. Adelson – $40k
- With both Drs. Harry and Amy (four hands) – starts at $60k
-Does it matter where the stem cells come from?…34:40
- Do your homework before doing the treatment
- Dr. Adelson uses Organicell for exosomes
- Organicell products is a combination of exosomes with a placental matrix
-Biohacks to stack with stem cell therapy…36:00
- Do not do multi-day fasting before the treatment
- Amy recommends red light therapy after
- Nitric Oxide supplement before and after
- Don't want to mobilize stem cells via PEMF prior to treatment
- Ancestral Supplements bone marrow capsules
- Hyperbaric therapy is good for recovery
- The procedure takes about 3 hours with about 2 hours for recovery
-Costs for the treatment…40:15
- Begins at $20k
- $40k for full body with just Dr. Adelson; $60k if with Dr. Killen
- Tithing program going on now for about 4 years
- No charge for combat veterans
- Do in exchange for documentation of community service
-How to find out more about Docere Clinics…43:33
- At the website
- Watch the film The Stem Cell Solution here.
- Get the e-book The Stem Cell Solution by Dr. Harry Adelson, here.
-And much more!
- PaleoFX – (April 29 -May 2, 2022).
- RUNGA – The Gathering (May 12-14, 2022). Register for the event now by clicking here
- Health Optimization Summit! Use code BEN for 20% off (May 22-29, 2022).
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldlife.com/calendar
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Docere Clinics
- The Single, Most Comprehensive Stem Cell Procedure Known To Humankind: How A “Full Body Stem Cell & Exosome Makeover” Works, with Dr. Harry Adelson and Dr. Amy Killen.
– Dr. Harry Adelson:
– Dr. Amy Killen:
– Other Resources:
- HBOT (code BEN to save $500 off the Vitaeris)
- Ancestral Supplements Grass Fed Bone and Marrow
- Nitric Oxide
- Dr. Todd Ovokaitys
- The Action Of Modulated Laser Light On Human Very Small Embryonic-Like (hVSEL) Stem Cells In Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP)
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