September 3, 2022
[00:00:57] Podcast Sponsors
[00:12:21] Ben's stance on plant medicines
[00:20:06] The shift Ben experienced in his being that made him decide to stop using plant medicines
[00:31:09] Unearned wisdom and climbing the mountain of spirituality
[00:39:56] The dark side of plant medicines
[00:49:02] Podcast Sponsors
[00:54:27] Where does intention come from?
[00:57:02] Ben's take on Isaiah 45:7
[01:04:22] Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina
[01:09:46] Ben's spiritual awakening and what he used to believe about society as real but through his spiritual faith he has seen as a lie?
[01:13:01] How does Ben stay sustainable in his own spiritual growth?
[01:16:03] What are the 3 biggest rocks that we all could move as a society?
[01:21:41] How has Mark 11:24 played out for Ben in his own life?
[01:26:54] How do you create meaning in the world when you look at wellness? How does Ben define wellness or wellbeing?
[01:28:45] Is freedom also being vulnerable?
[01:31:12] Upcoming Events
[01:31:37] End of Podcast
Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.
One of the biggest barriers to the growth of say like belief in God, Christianity, the Bible, et cetera, a lot of these things I hold dear that are core part of my beliefs, is plant medicine. And, the reason for that is it's very easy to put your faith in being able to have God or the gods at your beckon call, being able to divine, being able to experience God but not ever truly know God.
Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.
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Alright, so it's hard to overstate how important a certain mineral is for all aspects of our health. You'll hear all these different experts talking about this mineral now like Dr. Mark Hyman, Andrew Huberman, all these health industry podcasts, authorities, and physicians and researchers. It's magnesium if you didn't guess it already. And, there's a long list of symptoms and diseases that can be treated and even cured with magnesium. Magnesium way back when was a critical element for a lot of cures. Doctors use magnesium for arrhythmia, for constipation, for pre-eclampsia, for seizures, for some reason now, doctors seem to use as a last resort, and they'll put patients on high doses of magnesium if they're at risk of premature labor or seizure, or other very serious conditions. But, I would encourage you to use it as a preventive strategy. Magnesium deficiencies are widespread and you shouldn't just wait until you're deficient to keep your levels topped off. Even more critically, there's not just one type of magnesium. There's like seven different types that you need.
So, there is a form of magnesium called Magnesium Breakthrough. Okay. So, what it has is all those versions, the seven different versions of magnesium. Now, it's almost impossible to get enough magnesium taken through your food alone because our soil is so overworked and mineral depleted, and lacking organic matter. So, you can't just get all seven forms of this by eating liver and kale and blueberries all day long. As a matter of fact, I read somewhere and you got to take this with a grain of salt, but either way, 10 years ago, we need to eat one orange, and now we need to eat 10 to get the same amount of nutrients. And again, I don't know if that's precise, but you do know that the soil is depleted and we're getting less minerals in our soil. Unless you have some organic garden, you're adding a bunch of minerals too, you could be deficient in magnesium. You can test it, what's called the red blood cell magnesium test. I see very few people come back with high levels when I'm looking at the labs of people I consult with. And, I just tell them, take Magnesium Breakthrough. I take six a night before I go to bed. I'm an overachiever. I think you're supposed to take four, but I like six because I have a great poop the next morning, I sleep well, I'm relaxed and it just tops off my levels. I sweat a lot too, so that really helps.
So, it's called Mag Breakthrough. You go to magbreakthrough.com/ben. That's M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H.com/ben. Use code BEN10, that'll boost your intake of magnesium. You'll start feeling better today, so don't wait to be deficient. Just start taking the best forms of magnesium now on one capsule at magbreakthrough.com/ben. Code BEN10 will get you 10% off of any order from magbreakthrough.com/ben.
[00:05:27] Wellness + Wisdom Podcast Intro
Josh: Ben Greenfield is a New York Times best-selling author of 17 books and as a health consultant, speaker, and former collegiate water polo, tennis, and volleyball player. Ben also has achieved 13 Ironman triathlons and obstacle course race finishes. Ben has been voted by Greatest as one of the top 100 Most Influential People in health and fitness, but beyond these athletic accolades, I know Ben to be a deeply spiritual man who uses a connection to God, higher power to achieve what many could only dream of. I've been bouncing around inside of Ben Greenfield's orbit and consciousness for 10-plus years now. And, in true divine timing, it took something both polarizing and controversial to bring Ben and I together for this Wellness and Wisdom episode 462.
Today, Ben and I are asking a profoundly important question for any human being on a spiritual or faith-based path, and that is, should you stop using plant medicines? We're dropping in about wisdom on microdosing, the muscle of faith, and how to grow your spiritual strength. This is the Wellness and Wisdom podcast. And, I am Josh Trent. If you haven't subscribed, just tap the button that says Subscribe wherever you're listening so you can get the best free podcast episodes from us multiple times per week.
Now, listen, I'm not anti or pro plant medicine, I do believe that these medicines have special use cases, but the key is that they are special and not to be abused. There are four in my experience life-saving levers to pull when it comes to plant medicine. And, because I know this podcast will ruffle feathers and upset many people who claim that plant medicine is a panacea, it's even more important that this must be said.
Number one is set. Was the medicine prepared in a sacred way? Does the shaman or facilitator have the sacred experience from a trusted lineage combined with a pure heart? Look, not just in what they say, but in what wisdom they themselves have embodied. This is extremely important.
Second piece is setting. Has the space been properly cleared of dark energies and are all participants aligned with humility and curiosity? In other words, are there any participants who have not been properly screened that could bring dark energy to the space?
Number three, intention. Has the participant done preliminary work to get very clear on their intention and most importantly to not come to the medicine with a disempowered wish as words or spells and medicine hears spells.
Number four, integration. Is there a pre-, peri-, and post-integration skill facilitator to hold in safety for the ego dissolving that will take place for the participant. This is by far so, so, so important because too many people skip this very important step and they go away with no lessons learned. They had a radical experience but no lessons were learned.
So, with those four levers, those life-saving levers, regardless of if you yourself have done plant medicine or ceremonies or entheogens, or if you have a curiosity, this podcast is going to rip your hair back with Ben. I was able to spend some very intimate time with Ben, his wife, and two boys at the RUNGA event in Austin this year and I have to say out of every person I've met in wellness and health, my experience with Ben is a clear mirror of actions and words and integrity. In other words, he walks his talk at the highest level of anyone I've ever interviewed and spent personal time with in over 500 interviews on this podcast. And, this episode is close to my heart because if you've been following me for a few years or more, then you know I've had a dozen plus ayahuasca journeys, mushrooms, and numerous other plant medicines for journey and microdosing approaches using these entheogenic compounds, otherwise known as plant medicines.
With all the content we've put out covering my trips down to the jungle and the A to Z of psychedelics, I felt a deep calling to interview Ben. I reached out to him personally. I said, “Ben, I have to interview you about what you just said in public.” This deeply controversial change that he recently brought to the public eye. Just a couple of weeks ago, Ben shared with the world a two-part podcast series called “Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines.” Now, obviously, this caught my attention and everyone else's attention because of what I've shared in the podcast about entities and dark energy that you open yourself up to when you sit with these medicines in the wrong containers.
So, in this podcast, you will walk away with a deep intelligence around the clarification of exactly what plant medicines are for human beings and how they connect us with spiritual dimensions and consciousness. The moral obligation that I share with Ben that Ben felt to be deeply honest about in the public spotlight about why he is walking away from these plant medicines and maybe why you should too. The big warnings about plant medicines from God from higher power whether you are religious or not, and why there's no shortcut to climb your own mountain of spirituality or as Carl Jung quoted by Jordan Peterson says, “Be careful of unearned wisdom.” One of the most powerful quotes I know. Every time I say it, my body gets chills.
You'll also learn from Ben about the dark and light side of plant medicine, the wolf in sheep's clothing, and why the devil hides in the church. And, three key pieces of soul wisdom, why Ben only watches four or less movies per year and why the Pixar movie “Soul” connected Ben and myself in a very powerful way. I know it's going to connect you to these lessons as well.
We'll talk about the three biggest rocks for spiritual connections, so if you are a man or woman who is seeking deeper peace through spirituality, it may not always be in the jungle, it may not always be in a microdose, but I know that you're here with us because you are a wisdom seeker, you are a Wellness seeker like I am. And, this podcast will blow you away. It's going to be such a gift for your heart, mind, and soul to experience. Ben is one of the best podcasters and health and wellness influencers in the world. And, it's my honor to present to you this conversation with the one and only Ben Greenfield right here, right now on the Wellness and Wisdom podcast.
Ben, this is going to be an exceptional conversation. I got to spend some time with you at RUNGA. For people that don't know you, you've went through a huge transition. Well, everybody probably knows you at this point, man. I would say Ben Greenfield fitness in 2008, 2009, especially in 2010 when I got involved in the Chek Institute and read how to eat, move and be healthy, your name popped up.
Ben: That's pretty old school.
Josh: It's old school. Yeah, that's back when I was a personal trainer. But today, what's near and dear to my heart is I've had some journeys with plant medicine. I think a lot of people in my audience and I guess in our world of health, wellness, personal development have all had some journeys, but these entheogens these plant medicines, it really touched my heart, it really rocked my soul when I saw recently you had said two-part series about why you're no longer going to be using plant medicines. And so, man, I just want to talk about this spiritual shift from plant medicine. It was June 1st that you decided to completely stop using or even endorsing plant medicines and entheogens. Why is that?
Ben: Well, I suppose before replying to that question, I should probably clarify what I mean when I say plant medicine because I had a lot of people reach out to me and be like, “Oh gosh, I use ginkgo biloba for memory and I cook with nettle extract and I take oil of oregano for a stomach problem. What are you saying, Ben? Why can't I use plant medicines anymore?” And, my reply to those folks was that I chose to use that term “analogy” simply because that's kind of the language that's spoken right now in the spiritual and the health industries largely when referring to entheogens, psychedelics, hallucinogenic compounds, et cetera. And, I suppose I probably could have said, “I'm no longer going to be using psychedelics” or something like that, but I think that any astute reader or listener knows what I mean when I say plant medicines. And, I'm not saying like don't use herbs for healing or something like that.
And so, when I refer to plant medicine, what I'm specifically referring to are the compounds from the plant kingdom that people have traditionally used since the dawn of time for diving with the gods for witchcraft, for sorcery, for the occult, for astral projection or astral travel, and for a wide variety of activities that specifically involve interacting with a spiritual dimension, interacting with entities, interacting with angels, with demons, with big G, God, with little g, god. And, that's the way that many of the compounds that are used recreationally or in party formats these days were traditionally used for very long time for religious activities and for spiritual activities, both black magic, and white magic. And so, this would include LSD or any of these so-called lysergamides, psilocybin, huachuma, and many of these cacti derivatives, DMT, iboga or ibogaine, some synthetics, I think, would probably fall into that category as well, either synthetic forms of DMT or high dose recreational ketamine. Obviously, LSD could be classified as a synthetic as well. And, that's not an exhaustive list per se, but generally, I'm referring to the type of things that in often somewhat small doses can shift your state of consciousness dramatically and cause what most people would refer to as a journey or as a trip.
Now, anybody who's actually used those type of medicines to journey — well, I should say this. Very few people who have used those medicines to journey deny the existence of a spiritual dimension. Very few people will claim that it's simply a flooding of the synaptic clefts with excess levels of serotonin or dopamine or something like that or just a simple surge of DMT from the pineal gland. There's very few people I know who are former atheists who have used plant medicine who are any longer atheists because they see God or they experienced Him and to see or they experience something that proves that there definitely is a spiritual dimension. And, it appears that some elements of the plant kingdom are the portals via which the spiritual dimension interacts with a little bit more of the earthly tangible dimension. And, I think that's very interesting. For me personally, having been in that space many, many times, it's intriguing, it's intriguing that God's entities, spirits, angels, demons, whatever you would want to refer to them as actually choose to interact with human beings through the ingestion or the application or the smoking or the vaping, or the use of certain plants. And, that just appears to be one of the chosen methods of interaction with human beings.
Now, the reason that I am putting up a great big red warning flag now around those substances, particularly when it comes to the recreational use of them, often in an unsupervised set and setting or in a container that I think is somewhat dangerous without supervision is that when you enter into a spiritual dimension like that, when you begin interacting with entities like that, you open yourself up to a great deal of influence.
Ben: Influence from either of those spirits or influence from the shaman or the facilitator who is overseeing your experience. And, for example, New Yorker magazine recently did a 9 or 10-part podcast series on how rife the plant medicine industry is with people taking financial advantage, power advantage, sexual advantage, et cetera over other people. Usually, it's the facilitator of the shaman who is somehow taking advantage of the other person. And, that can include placing a curse on them, placing a hex on them, basically, taking a small amount of their hair or their tissue. If you're down the Amazon, for example, to cause you to keep coming back and keep making money off of you or using your sexually or whatever the case may be. And, I don't necessarily think that all shamans and all facilitators are falling in that category, but you do carry the risk of being influenced by another person. And, perhaps even more seriously, you carry the risk of being influenced spiritually and what we often call schizophrenia or psychosis or bipolar certainly can have a neurochemical component to it. But, I think that when we witnessed that in people who have experimented with or heavily dosed themselves with plant medicines, I think that I would go so far as to say that part of that might be some type of demonic influence or influence from a from a dark spirit or dark energy that that person experience during a plant medicine ceremony. Now —
Josh: Yes, I've been there myself and I have to jump in because wow, Ben, I mean, oh my god, the level of input that we're all receiving from plant medicines has grown and grown and grown. So, here in Austin, there's like the ONNIT tribe and Aubrey Marcus who's brought plant medicine first and foremost on the scene here, I feel like really. But, me personally, I had a couple really incredibly dark experiences down in Costa Rica, and that was what was tugging at my heart to have this conversation with you, I thought about all the ways in which I have been a proponent of plant medicine. And, like you said, plant medicine doesn't always involve nettles or some of these adaptogens that we consume to make us healthy. Plant medicines that you and I are speaking about right now are psychedelics. These are things that bring people to four and fifth dimensions and beyond.
I got to talk about this because when I spent time with you at RUNGA, there wasn't the normal conversation of psychedelics that usually happens at events like that, and I felt like maybe there was a shift already happening with you anyways, but it wasn't until June 1st, a little bit of time after we saw each other that you really had a deeper connection with God, a deeper connection with the creator of all things.
So, before you go any more into the science or any more into the darkness of plant medicine, what was the shift in your heart, in your being, in your human expression that allowed you to have this conversation with God and say, “okay, I'm taking a break or I might be done completely.”
Ben: Oh, I just had a bad trip, bro. Not really. No, that's kind of funny. I've never really had a bad trip. I've had 20-plus hour plant medicine experiences; ego, death ceremonies, things like that that it wouldn't classify as pleasant, but that I don't think necessarily were bad trips. But, the closest I ever got to a bad trip was taking too big of a hit on a DMT pen in the forest and having some imaginary snakes coming down from the trees that I now upon further reflection going back and setting a little bit more about what these medicine actually entail. Spiritually, that obviously was some type of entity most likely.
But, back to the root of your question. When you saw me at RUNGA, I was kind of deep in the throes of researching a lot of this because what actually caught my attention was I read the Bible as part of my morning routine. I had to do breathwork as you do. I play nice music. I like a channel like soaking worship, which kind of shifts you into a nice state to just be in a deep devotional and spiritual state. I'll burn some incense or some essential oils, read the Bible and pray. I go through a devotional and I just kind of have a spiritual workout each morning.
And, I guess it was probably maybe four months ago that I came across the passage when I was reading the Bible about what are called Pharmakia. Gosh, I was born as a Christian. I went to Sunday school. I read the Bible probably four or five times all the way through. And, I've seen that word before, but for some reason it kind of tugged at my heart when I read it. And like, gosh, I've seen this before, I've read it, I've always thought it was just kind of, I don't know, witchcraft or sorcery or something like that, but I've never done, I don't write a vermin or a pointy hat or cast spells on people, and I'm not worried.
But, I read about it and it's kind of lumped into the same category as some of these things that kind of star the soul like adultery or murder or some of these things that we might consider to be bigger problems and telling a lie or stealing. There's certain things that I think we humans just have a gut reaction to, and that's something that can definitely leave you in a dark place. And Pharmakia is constantly lumped into that category when it's spoken of in the Bible, which it is spoken of, gosh, dozens of times. So, it's obviously something that if you do believe in the Bible, and it's obviously a pretty big assumption here, I realize people are listening, they don't believe the Bible is true or maybe they don't have a relationship with God.
Josh: Well, I mean, we've done a huge series with Paul Chek where we did probably four hours unpacking that everything is God, that all is made in the image of God. So, whether you believe in the book, the Bible, there are universal teachings that have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with spiritual awareness, spiritual awakening.
Ben: Yeah, exactly. And, back to what I was saying earlier like even if you don't believe in God, you don't believe the Bible is absolute truth, anybody who's listening who has dabbled in plant medicine would probably agree that there is a spiritual dimension of some sort that exists. It's just hard to be a materialist, a pure materialist from a rational logical standpoint, and have also done plant medicines. And, I just think it's very difficult, so I may not be able to make a case right now during this podcast that the Bible is the absolute truth or that my God is your God. But, I can at least say that in the religious literature that I read every morning, I keep seeing this word “Pharmakia” popping up, so I'm like, “I should look into this a little bit more.” I'm 40 years old. I use things that I know some people call Pharmakia like LSD and psilocybin and huachuma and ayahuasca. And, I've journeyed many, many times since the age of about 31.
And so, I started to look into it. It turns out that really the definition of it is using drugs to divine with the spiritual world, using drugs to interact with the spiritual world. That's what the definition of Pharmakia is. And, oh gosh, how many times have I been flat on my back slobbering with an eye mask and music pumping through the speakers talking to God or saying, what will you show me? Or, what's the next path of my life? Or, what should I do next? And, hearing the voice of God and seeing lights and interacting with entities and for me, it's only ever been pure love and light and resulted in amazing fruit in terms of my business breakthroughs, the expansion of my mind, the dissolution of the ego to a certain extent.
And so, I've always thought that because the fruits have been nothing but positive that this is great for me to be able to pop some pills and enter into this spiritual dimension and come back with amazing amounts of knowledge and insight. That's great. But then, when I started to study this, I realized, well, gosh, the reason that there's a big warning flag around this in the Bible, at least, or the reason that that God for some reason doesn't want us to use drugs to interact with the spiritual world is because, yeah, it works out for a lot of people, including myself for a certain period of time, but you're in a really dangerous place every time that you are using these substances for that purpose. And, I think that God knew that. I think our Creator knew that, and I think that He did put these substances, psilocybin or ergo or certain fungi or ayahuasca, or whether it's synthetic or natural heart openers like MDNA or huachuma. I think that these things were placed on this planet for a specific reason. I'm a creationist. I believe the Earth was created by higher power, by an intelligent being. I don't think that certain things are placed on the planet that we're not good.
As a matter of fact, if you read the Bible says all things were placed there for our good and for our benefit, everything was placed for reason. But, I think that in both ancient and modern times, there are certain compounds that we bastardized and used for purposes that go beyond God's original intention for them and thus put ourself in a space where either A, we're subject to influence from dark entities that can cause things like poor decision making, psychosis, schizophrenia, addiction, attachment, there are obviously some horror stories of I've seen guys coming to ayahuasca and chopping their genitals off or people committing murder under the influence of drugs. And, I realize like that's a pretty extreme use case for most people, it's just maybe a little bit of a change in their personality or their decision making, or maybe mild psychosis or something like that.
But, I think that even if that doesn't occur because that never occurred with me, I always have had amazing, amazing experiences and breakthroughs and insights. I think the bigger problem, and this is my main concern and this is what Aldous Huxley knew, this is what Aleister Crowley knew, this is what Timothy Leary knew, this is what a lot of the forefathers and proponents of the plant medicine movement knew. As a matter of fact, I was even listening to a recent interview on the “Plants of The Gods” Podcast with Paul Stamets and I forget the other plant medicine researcher was on that podcast. They talked about this as well.
One of the biggest barriers to the growth of say belief in God, Christianity, the Bible, et cetera, a lot of these things I hold dear that are core part of my beliefs, one of the biggest barriers to those are or is plant medicine. And, the reason for that is it's very easy to put your faith in being able to have God or the gods at your beckon call, being able to divine, being able to experience God but not ever truly know God, being able to experience a deep spiritual awakening but never actually go through the blood, sweat, the tears, the chopping wood, procuring water, the hard work that actually develops true spiritual enlightenment —
Josh: I've said this before, I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Jordan Peterson quoted this from Jung and he said that, “We have to be careful of unearned wisdom.” It's exactly what you're saying because if I can have God on a beckon call just by going to a ceremony or just by making a financial investment or just wanting to be part of a tribe because they're all doing plant medicine, that's not necessarily going to make me a heretic. That's not going to make me somebody that actually knows God through life experience, through real challenge; blood, sweat and tears doing the spiritual practices. I mean, if all is God and God made all these things, why would it not be possible Ben for God to protect us from energies and entities during properly facilitated or protected ceremony? In other words, why couldn't God protect us if we had a relationship with God from energies in ceremonies?
Ben: Yeah. God does, God does protect you. I think that's why I've never had a bad trip. Whenever I've journeyed, I've had a Bible at the bedside. I've gone into deep prayer, sometimes for weeks leading into the journey. I've prayed on the armor of God. I've recited the name of Jesus and Yeshua and cleaned the room of any evil spirits and then very careful about who's facilitating and experience for me. And so, yeah, you can certainly be protected by God.
Problem is for every one of me who's going to do that, there's going to be 10 people who go in unarmed not knowing what they're doing, subjecting themselves or potentially putting themselves into a situation where they're subject to dark influences. And, I really don't want to be the person who's standing up on a pedestal on my platform and saying, “Yo, psilocybin is amazing, babe. You're going to discover yourself.” And, I just don't want that burden of being responsible for someone who doesn't do all those things that I've done and winds up really being in that state that I think God warned us about originally, which is the evil influence you can be subject to via the use of Pharmakia.
Josh: Dude, I remember you were on London Real, I think it was 2014, and that was six or seven years after I read Paul's book and I started hearing about you. And, I went into this space in my own heart where I was like, “Okay, if Ben” — and I was very moldable at that time. This is before I even launched a podcast. I was like, “If Ben can do it safely, then I can probably do it too.” And, I was very impressionable at 34 years old. I think about what you said on the show. I think you said something on Brian's show like, “I'm here to help people climb their own mountains.” Well, if any of us are trying to climb a mountain of spirituality and we can perceive “a shortcut or unearned wisdom,” I think this is really what I want to unpack with you. This unearned wisdom, this shortcut, we can't shortcut spirituality, you have to lead a life that is strong in many different facets in order to connect with God or even find a meaning of what God truly is. Can we expand that?
Ben: Yeah, yeah. And, by the way, remind me because we should come back to this fact that I do think as I was starting to talk about that there is a use case for these compounds. And, I think there is a time and a place. We can talk about that, but let's address what you've just asked me first.
So, the idea here is that when you use plant medicines and you're interacting with God and seeing the bright light and love and you're experiencing God in a far different way than you ever may have, whatever in Sunday school or in church or during a prayer time or a nature walk or whatever, it's really profound. Now, that being said, I should throw the little caveat in there that when you hear about Satan or you're about Lucifer, what does Lucifer means? It means light bearer. And, a lot of people think that demons and Satan, it's all dark energy and blood and horns and crunchy things and thorns. And, yeah, certainly people who have experienced that, especially people who have experienced that in plant medicine know that to be the case. There are universal symbols of evil that we all just kind of like, you know what I mean?
Josh: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: You see like a goat with horns or blood coming out, seeping from somebody's eyeballs. All these universal things we see in horror movies. I think there's a reason that we see them because there is a universal symbology of evil. But, I also think that even the Bible says that Satan masquerades as an Angel of light, and —
Josh: Yes, the best place for the devil to hide is in the church.
Ben: Right. And, let's say that you believe in the creation story of Adam and Eve in this serpent offering Eve this forbidden fruit. There's no way it was some like ugly horrific serpent that she would have recoiled from and run away screaming because it was so horrific to look upon, it was probably a very, very beautiful dragon or serpent or something that was just dazzlingly beautiful.
So, when I say “experiencing God in plant medicine,” sometimes you're not experiencing God, sometimes you're experiencing something the polar opposite of God that is trying to be portrayed as light and love and purity, but is in fact not. But, let's say that it is God that you're experiencing, you then set yourself up for this scenario in which you have this expectation that in order to talk to God, in order to experience God, in order to hear his voice rather than doing as I was this morning right upstairs, 10 feet from where I'm walking my treadmill right now, sitting on the back patio, look out into the trees, closing my eyes, breathing through my nose, opening myself up to the voice of God, praying, looking out over the trees and seeing His beauty and creation, hearing His voice, writing in my journal, the type of things that God is revealing to me as I'm sitting there. Instead, you set up this expectation that to really truly have that spiritual experience, you basically have to do drugs.
And, furthermore, the problem with this is also that if you look at say the early Christian church, there is a subset of sector called Gnostics. They're basically early Christian mystics who claimed that there was this secret power, this secret knowing, this secret way to God that was only accessible to certain people, but only the chosen few. But, if you look at Jesus Christ, I mean basically, He hung out with poor people. That's the two people, people who didn't have access to all the fancy riches and drugs and secret knowledge. His whole message was salvation and spiritual enlightenment. And, in the path to happiness through God is totally free. It's totally free and you don't need to be sacrificing bulls on an altar and you don't have to have some Levite priests going into the back end of the Holy of Holies and burning incense and putting on oil which probably was a little bit psychedelic if you go back and look at some of the research behind that. The new path to salvation, the reason that Christianity was called the third way or THE way is because it was all of a sudden this new thing that didn't require drugs and oracles and temples and priests and priestesses, it was just this free path to salvation.
And, over the past few months, I've been questioning, “Do I want to be the guy who gives the impression to let's say billions of people in India or Africa or poor people in America or Canada or Mexico, or else that really to truly find God got to be able to afford a trip to the Purdue ayahuasca, or you got to grow some fungi or find some psilocybin and do that, or you have to go through some type of facilitation ceremony or go to a ketamine clinic, whatever?” No, that's not what you need for spiritual enlightenment.
Josh: But, don't you think it's not just the only access point to God? As long as it's done in a very safe way, it is a one path to God. It's not THE path, the path to God is what you write about and endure. The path to God is what we all do when we pray and meditate. The path to God has many different flavors. It's not the only one. And, I get why you're sharing with people that it is not the golden ticket, it is not this thing that's going to connect you with God ultimately, but I do think that I have had so many profound experiences that have shifted the course of my life, my podcast, my relationship. I too share an opinion like you where I actually deleted a lot of our content on the channel about plant medicine. We were paid for on a media trade to go down to a place in Costa Rica that I can't say here live on the podcast because the owner has a lot of money and he will sue me. But, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Josh: And, we've had a lot of colleagues go down there. And, that was the place where I absorbed an entity. And, we absolutely will get back Ben, like you said, to the microdosing aspect and to the safe use of some of these things and the use cases. But, I'm called to share this because I deleted all the content because of what I felt the dark energy, the demonic energy that down there really was. And, it was something where I was duped, I was fooled. And, I have full complete humility when I say this, plant medicine is not for everyone. And, I would say it's probably not for most because the spiritual maturity that one has to have in order to integrate the lessons from these medicines are so high and are so contextual on their life experience and how applicable they are to being, I guess you could say psychologically controlled that I had to eat my lunch.
And, I don't wish my experience on anyone else, it took me almost two years to heal the psychic entity, the attachment that I had. I had to go to our friend and colleague Paul Chek and he taught me a specific prayer and different ways in which I got rid of that energy. But, it took me to a place where I had just gotten with the mother of my child now, I had felt my son wanting to come in and there was this demonic energy that was basically attacking my soul, it was attacking my soul. And, when I went into Paul's house, he said, “Oh, it looks like you have a black crocodile on your body.” And, I mean right then, I knew because I had felt like this almost like a psyche had been shattered like some kind of energy was in my system.
Now, if you'd have told me Ben before that that entities were real, I would not have believed you, I had to actually experience it myself. So, I too am like you where I am extremely cautious about sending people there and we had to delete a lot of content. And, I did an entire podcast about a death and rebirth about why I believe that these medicines potentially can help, but also can harm. So, I just want to say thank you, man. Thank you for having the balls to go back on so much content that you've produced. And, I'm curious what comes up for you when you hear the word “entity.” I'm reading a book right now called “Wetiko.” And, I don't know if you know Paul Levy.
Ben: Yeah, yeah.
Josh: But, this is about the mind virus that plagues our world.
So, what do you see from the dark side of the plant medicine in your experiences?
Ben: Yeah, back to what you were saying about how it being A path to God, not the only path to God, but a path to God, I totally agree with you. Back to my own experiences of it only ever being light and love and great spiritual enlightenment, back to many atheists who I've talked to who have come to know God through plant medicine, I mean it was really, really hard for me to know all of that, but then to say, “No, I just can't get behind it anymore.” And, the reason for that is because yeah, you can go in protected, you can go in whatever, let's say you're Christian washed by the blood of Jesus Christ, you got a Bible out or you surround yourself with only positive energy, you know the shaman is total white magic Shaman, not a black magic shaman. And, you can go in there, but let's get even more woo here.
I mean, if you go back and you read the Bible and the story of the fallen angels, I know Satan left heaven because he was jealous of God and he wanted to be God and he took a certain number of these angels with him, the Nephalem, and there were originally people Jewish lore, I think it was about 72 different gods and there was the father and the son Yeshua. Yeshua and Elohim, those are a couple of the early great gods like the big G, God, but then there are a lot of little g, gods underneath God who came down to Earth and scattered and became a part of the spiritual world with which humans interact.
Well, let's just say you're a young Earth creationist. Maybe you believe that all happened 8,000 9,000 years ago. Who the hell am I to think that I can go into that world and be able to be smarter and more elusive than a demon who's been playing around with humans for the past 8,000 years? Who am I to say, “Oh, I'm just going to put a Bible at the foot of my bed.” I'm going to go, “I'm Ben Greenfield. I pray, bro. I've been a Christian for 40 years. I got this. These demons got nothing over me.” Well, you know what, I just think it's playing with fire. And so, if you say, well, it's a path to God, I completely agree with you, but is it the appropriate path to God? No.
And, furthermore, even if I think it is — and gosh, I've gone to God a lot of times. I've gone to God both in medicine and out of medicine to ask this question because before, I really decided to swear like I actually did some journeys where I went straight to God and I asked him every single time what came back over and over and over again was “No, no, no, no, no, this is not the way, this is why God wrote about it in the Bible as forbidden Pharmakia because he knew how attractive it was, and yet in the end how much of a train wreck that it would cause or how much of a displaced trust and faith it would cause for people to put their faith and their reliance upon how they could become spiritually enlightened in anything other than the free act of just placing your burden at the foot of the cross saying “Thank you, Jesus” and walking when I realize that sound like a total Bible thump in Jesus freak saying this. But, it's just my background, I'm happy to stand by my religious convictions just because that's who I am. And, if I believe it, I believe it.
Again, even if you're not a Christian if you don't believe in the Bible, you are still entering into a spiritual world where these spirits know what the hell they're doing. You don't play around with them. Yeah, you might have met your beck and call, but they've got you at their beck and call too and can do with you what they please and you just have to know that and be aware of it. And again, I'm painting with a really broad brush here, I realize and there are certain scenarios where I do think there's an appropriate use for these type of things.
Josh: Yes, yes.
Ben: Okay. Let's say, for example, you want to have an amazing conversation with your lover in which your heart is open and you have kind of that truth serum going through your bloodstream and you just want to sit with her and have an amazing conversation, perhaps make love later on, perhaps not, but you just want to be in a really, really nice space. No, go ahead. I mean, if you want to take 150 of MDMA and sit with your husband or your wife in bed and talk with them for hours, fine, that's great —
Josh: But, it's just you and your lover, it's not a huge group of people.
Ben: Take that same dose of MDMA, put on an eye mask, put on some headphones, lay flat on your back and say, “Hey, God, here I come. Here I come. I'm coming into the spiritual dimension. Alright, let's see what God has to say to me.” And, that's a different scenario. So, even the container and the intention matter.
Another example would be psilocybin. I will take psilocybin in small amounts for increased sensory perception, for creativity, for awareness, even as a little bit of a heart opener, and I'm nowhere near a psychedelic or hallucinogenic stage. And, that would be something like a Stamets stack, for example, like an example of microdosing. You could say the same for a small dose of huachuma as a heart opening microdoser, LSD for a focus microdose. I again think that those type of uses are just fine.
I also think that when we get to the heftier doses in addition to something like couples therapy eyes wide open with each other not having a purpose or intention of diving into the spiritual world. You could also take these larger doses and say that they could be applicable in a few use-case scenarios. For example, medically supervised end-of-life therapy or someone who has cancer, fear of death and they just need to kind of be dissolved for a little while and feel that fear kind of go away. I've seen that occur many times and I've seen it have benefit.
I could possibly I would say as I continue to study this eventually decide that even that is too risky, and that perhaps we need to embrace the pain and the suffering and the fear of death rather than just trying to melt it away with drugs. But, I could see end-of-life therapy being another use case. I can see supervised trauma therapy such as a medical ketamine administration also being a potentially appropriate use case, but again, only in a really tight set and setting and only with really good therapy and integration afterwards. And so, some of these things, I either haven't fully made by decision on and I'm leaving the door open for them, or I feel like I might make a more complete decision later on. So, end-of-life therapy couples therapy, trauma therapy and microdosing, I still see some use cases for those.
And then, finally, and this is kind of interesting, if you look at the traditional use of a lot of these plant compounds because I've talked to many facilitators who have switched to a purely synthetic approach and found that that dark energy doesn't seem to exist.
Josh: What do you mean synthetic approach?
Ben: So, a synthetic approach would be Sasha Sulgin had a few synthetics that he had produced towards the end of his life that they have an entheogenic feel to them. And, I'm not speaking from personal experience anymore, I'll get to that in a second. They have an entheogenic feel to them but they're more of a nootropic smart drug type of compound that shifts the brain in a very similar ways and entheogen or hallucinogen might, but without that dark energy that you might get from plant matter from the from the spiritual world. The term right now being used for these in the industry is [00:47:59] _____. And, I've kind of sort of used stuff like that before but never without the addition of some type of plant medicine component. Because I do know some people, including some pretty strong Christians and folks who are using [00:48:17] _____ to not to journey and divine with God, but to get some new personal insights, business breakthrough, stuff like that. I'm leaving the door open for that as well and likely will try something like that towards the end of August, early September, just to personally experience that and say okay, well, this would fall into the same category as plant medicine or it wouldn't. And, that's about the only heftier dose type of thing I'm keeping the door open for. But even that, I haven't made a decision on. So, obviously, some of the stuff is still a bit loosey-goosey. We can't do just maybe talk here black and white, all or nothing, but the main big takeaway message here is we got to be careful. We're playing with fire with a lot of this stuff.
So, you may have seen me slathering a special red powder on a lot of the meats that I cook these days. There's a reason for that. Okay, I use it as a meat rub that absolutely caramelizes and intensifies the flavor of every meat dish that I use. The red powder I use for this is USDA organic, certified gluten-free, glyphosate residue-free, dairy-free, soy-free, vegan, non-GMO, 100% organic whole food designed as this potent antioxidant blend with this ingredient profile that's off the charts, beets, freeze-dried berries, blueberries, acai, pomegranate, raspberries, strawberry, cranberries, cordyceps, which is this crazy medicinal mushroom with incredibly strong adaptogenic qualities, Siberian ginseng, which is this super popular herb in Russia that helps to balance hormones, Reishi mushroom, the queen of mushrooms, grounding mushroom, very powerful adaptogen also, rhodiola for mental clarity, for focus, for physical endurance. The list goes on and on, but it's all organic and you get all of these benefits.
And, it was designed not as a meat, but it was designed for juice. It's healthier than coffee with no crash. I like to travel around with little packets, just dump them straight in my mouth. I just got back from an airplane flight and had one right before the flight took off for a little bit of cellular protection. This stuff is so versatile. My kids love it. My wife loves it. I absolutely dig it. It's got zero caffeine levels. Only 2 grams of sugar. A fraction of the cost of what you'd pay for red juice at your local overpriced juicery shop.
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You know, I'm honestly shocked every time I see a bodybuilder or fitness influencer or anyone really promoting branch chain amino acids, also known as BCAA. You see these things all over the place. I just don't get it. They only have three of the nine essential amino acids your body needs. They can cause issues like messing with your serotonin levels and depleting your B vitamins, they affect your blood sugar deleteriously, and a whole lot more. But the dark and dirty secret and the supplements industry is that you can make a lot of money off of the overpriced flavored water that is essentially BCAAs. So, I use the word “essentially,” I suppose, quite fittingly, because the alternative are essential amino acids. Essential amino acids actually have all the amino acids your body actually need. They are great for energy, great for preserving muscle, great for fasting, and keeping the appetite satiated. Great for nourishing the body for sleep, good for cognitive performance. They're like the Swiss Army knife of supplements. These essential amino acids.
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Alright, it's called Awake and Aware. I'll be teaching you for a full day. You're going to get amazing meals, nature walk, meditations, hanging out with a ton of cool people, access again to some of the best physicians in the world. And, it's coming up soon. It's a one-day event on Saturday, October 22nd. My family's going to be there, I'm going to be there. We're going to be staying at the Castle all week. You can join us; interactive lectures, Q&A, nature walk, and intimate dinner on organic farm-to-table lunch. Starts at 9:00 a.m., ends at 8:00 p.m. It's literally 10 minutes from the airport. You could fly into Lexington and stay for a few days at the Castle. Go to this event on a Saturday. It's one of the most special places in the world.
So, here is how you can get into this event, which is called Awake and Aware. You go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/WildHealthPrinciples because we're going to be focused on all the principles of achieving what they call wild health. So, BenGreenfieldLife.com/WildHealthPrinciples. I'm going to give you 15% off this event. You use code BG15 to get 15% off. That's BG15 at BenGreenfieldLife.com/WildHealthPrinciples.
Josh: Yeah, the set and setting is just two pieces, but also the intention is a big one. This is something that nobody really talks about. I mean, I've heard you talk about it a few times. We've had different people on the show to discuss this. I think about where intention actually comes from. If someone's intention is pure, it's coming from their heart and soul. It's not coming from their ego. I'm not here to bastardize the ego, I think the ego is a beautiful thing when it's integrated. But, if I have a pure intention and I go into a ceremony, let's just say with my wife or for the single people, someone you're dating who you're considering to have a family with and you have a pure intention from your heart, not to see what you can get out of them, not to see how far you can get as far as your success, that is just as important, I believe, as set and setting. So, you've never had a entity attached to you, you've never felt the presence of darkness and had to fight it off in any way.
Ben: I think probably one time a little bit I felt that there was a dark energy in the room. I felt as though I was battling against something, wasn't necessarily battling against something that I felt wanted to take over my body, I could just sense a presence in the room. And, this was during a medicine experience, but I never came out of it feeling as though I carried that with me. I never came out of feeling scarred. Anytime I've ever run into anything even remotely like that, I've simply recited the name of Jesus and sometimes we'll sing a song or recite a Bible verse. Again, I think that I wrote about this in the article series that I did about all this. I think that I should say I got lucky. I think that God protected me and that the experiences that I've had have simply been something that will hopefully allow me to say go to my twin 14-year-old sons and warn them so that they don't make the same mistakes as I did.
And so, that eventually one of my followers or fans or one of my sons or anyone else doesn't wind up exposing themselves to some type of dark entity because that's playing with your soul, your eternal soul. And so, I think it is important. And, when I think about my sons, I just feel as though them to know that they can go to God anytime they want without drugs and they can have breakthroughs and insights and discoveries and downloads and divinations from God without being in the plant medicine space, I think that's a good gift that I can give to them.
Josh: I feel into something I've read many times and it's Isaiah 45:7. This is from the King James version. It's, “I form the light and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.” Now, I'm curious what comes up for you there because for me what I hear is not just that all is God but every single thing even the conception that I have of God is also God, it's the intelligence of God. Literally, if God is nothing and everything at the same time and you and I are this unique point of consciousness. And, of course, this wisdom is passed to me on by our friend Paul Chek. If I am that unique point of consciousness and we are all in a big theater here, then if I'm doing things from my heart and I'm living my life from my heart, of course, the lessons I learned along the way are going to shape that, then I have to accept, Ben, I have to accept that sometimes in life terrible things happen. And, for me, the entity happened for a reason. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to know what it is and warn people about it. Thank God I got out of it.
What comes up for you when you hear Isaiah 45:7 about the light and the darkness of God actually created the demonic energy in the world that's all God do?
Ben: Yeah. God draws straight with crooked lines. That's not in the Bible, but it's certainly something I've experienced many times in my life like the path to the top of the mountain is a zigzagging path and often results in you being exposed to or you making mistakes that eventually form you into the person that you are.
Josh: Yes, yes.
Ben: God refined gold by fire. And furthermore, God could have created a world in which everything was perfect and he could have written out a story for our lives and had us act out that story as little automaton puppets with no free will.
Ben: For some reason, the intelligent being decided to grant us free will, probably because if we are made in the image of God, we have this desire to create, we have this desire to have some amount of self-actualization, we have this desire to be kind of like the God that created us, which obviously goes wrong sometimes when people commit horrific atrocities for money or power or fame or anything else that brings them closer to God like status versus just filling that eternal hole in their soul with daily union with God, speaking with God, and embracing a little bit of a healthier approach to being God-like.
But ultimately, because we are made in the image of an intelligent being, a creator, a God, we do have this free will. And, the nature of that free will means that we can make a lot of mistakes, we can commit a lot of evils, and God allows that to happen. And furthermore, God typically has some reason that he allows it to happen. Sometimes it is so that he can eventually be glorified by revealing the healing or the salvation that he offers to us after something bad happens. Sometimes it can be to teach us more empathy or more sympathy, or teach us how to love people who may not be like us, or who may even have severe physical or mental debilitations.
For example, God allows babies to be born with diseases or with condition say like Down syndrome, for example, and he could have caused every human to be born perfect but he didn't. And, I don't know any parent who has had a child with Down syndrome who hasn't had their life transformed into one of beauty and love and the ability to just love any human being in a much, much greater way than perhaps they would have ever done had they not been so intimately involved with the human being who by the world standards was broken but needed love anyways. So, sometimes God allows people to have him to teach us unconditional love. And, I won't deny that there certainly are cases, and this is kind of like the God of the Old Testament things that kind of rubs people the wrong way sometimes. I think God does sometimes punish by allowing evil things to happen. I think sometimes if you look at, I don't know, maybe in the Bible —
Josh: But, is it really a punishment or is it just cause and effect based on wisdom?
Ben: It might be cause and effect, natural consequences of one's decision. But yet, I mean if you go to the Bible and read Joshua or her judges where the Israelites are going through the land of Canaan and burning people and killing them by the sword and basically God's commanding that because these people are so evil and they've done such atrocities that God is literally using other human beings to punish them. And then, you also see hailstones and fire, and random armies struck dead literally by like Angels of God. And so, you also see God not only using humans to punish other people, but God directly punishing other people. And, that kind of makes people squirm like, “Alright, I don't know how I want to worship that God.”
But, the fact is that the world is a little bit different now, and things kind of changed if you look at this from a Christian standpoint with the emergence of a deity that came to Earth and died and was buried and was resurrected for our sins, and suddenly everyone is in, there's not like the Israelites and the Gentiles or the foreign armies that are doing evil and the good, but it's like every single person is loved by God and offered this free gift of salvation and evil has been bound. That's my personal belief is not that we're in some type of apocalyptic scenario where the world is going to get more and more evil, and we're going to hell in a handbasket. I think death has been defeated. I think Satan has been bound. I think demons and Lucifer, they can still do damage to people, but I think ultimately these plants can get better and better and better and better as more and more people realize that salvation is free and that God loves them so deeply that he offered that free gift of salvation to everyone.
And, I think, unfortunately, one of the things that could stand in the way or impede the progress of that is people placing their faith in plant medicine rather than people placing their faith in the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Josh: Well, Ben, I myself don't identify with a God being in the sky, a dude wearing a beard, but I have felt and I do feel on a daily basis this connection with a higher power. And, I call it God, I call it universe, I call it higher intelligence. The way that manifests in my life is through a beautiful son that I have who's a year old, a loving relationship, this platform continuing to grow, and having the opportunity Ben to speak to people like you. It's really, really amazing. If you'd have told me when I was a personal trainer banging out sessions and gyms in 2009, I would have never even imagined that I could be at this place.
But, you know what the deciding factor has been throughout the entire journey, man, it has been always opening my heart to something that I don't understand to something that I feel that I can't always touch that I can't always smell, but it's always there for me, like this palpable energy that when I ignore it, I notice my life starts to go South. When I love it, when I open to that energy, my life starts to unfold in a beautiful way.
And, I want to talk about your book too. This is “Endure” if you guys are watching on YouTube, tools, tactics, habits for spiritual stamina. You and I share an affinity for my favorite movie in the world and that is “Soul.” And, I love reading that chapter in your book because I thought, okay, yeah, you had these three things, these three gems you pulled from it. One was stop and smell the roses. Next is the grass is always greener. And then, three, find your spark. That movie touched me in a way that I can't even share with words. Why did that movie mean so much to you? I think you only watched four movies a year. So, for you to watch that movie, that was a big deal, that really spoke to your soul.
Ben: Yeah, literally and figuratively I suppose. This idea that there's a lot more to us than just flesh and blood, it's kind of related to everything we've been talking about for the past hour, the existence of a spiritual world. And, sometimes we can bandy about terms like God, and Jesus, and Angel, and demons, and Satan, and Heaven, and Hell, and forget that we ourselves are like beings, we ourselves are spirits. We're just a soul with the shell on top of it for a little while. We're an eternal soul.
And, that cartoon, animated film I suppose it could be called, I really liked it because it just made me think more and more about how everybody has this unique spark inside of them. Everybody is a light being. And, like when I'm talking to you, Josh, you're not just Josh Trent with a beard and your hair and your skin and your eyes, everything else, you are an actual light being. And, when you look at people and you see through the flesh and you see, and this sounds kind of woo and ethereal, but you see them as like blue sparks of light and almost the same way that you would think of, I don't know, a nymph or a fairy or something like that to use terminology people might be familiar with, but an actual soul, an actual spirit. All of a sudden, it changes a lot the way that you interact with people. That person begging your groceries at the grocery store, they're an eternal soul that as C.S. Lewis once said, “An immortal soul with the capability of being a horrific monster or an incredible immortal being.” Same thing for that homeless person holding a cardboard sign on the street corner. Same thing for some politician who you might severely disagree with or even mildly hate like anybody, anybody who you come across, you have any feelings towards, good or bad. These are eternal souls. These are light beings.
And, I think that more people would benefit from considering their human beings, their fellow human beings in such a way. Every single one of us is unique soul, unique spark. Every single one of us has unique purpose, and I think that that film just did a really good job showing that.
Josh: Yeah. And, it doesn't have to mean that you are a multibillionaire for you to have a spark like having a spark could be just playing the guitar on your back porch. It could be you going hiking with somebody that you care about.
Ben: It's like it interrupt you real quick.
Ben: This is kind of like some angst I've been having lately because I've been meditating quite a bit upon my own platform. And, I have many people at the helm of the ship, so to speak, who are steering things towards greatness and expansive network, global content, media empire, et cetera, et cetera.
Ben: Josh, what I really like to do is like play cornhole with my sons in the back patio, and read a good fiction book, and play guitar, and sip some wine, and make love to my wife, and go take care of the goats and chickens, and just basically live a simple yet extraordinary life. And, that's my spark. And, that doesn't mean I also don't want to be, to use other biblical analogy, [01:08:27] _____. I don't want to be like Jonah in the story of Nineveh who God calls him something great and he's like, “No, no, I'm going to run over here because it's safe and comfortable over here.”
I'm constantly checking myself and asking myself, well with me just sitting at home, whatever, writing books and doing a podcast and hanging out with my kids, squander whatever platform or calling that God has given to me. But at the same time, I think that you've just started to make the point that your unique spark doesn't have to be billionaire, world-changing status, even though really you are changing the world if you're loving even just one person because it's back to that eternal soul analogy. If you've loved just one person, if you've helped just one person find happiness for eternity and realize that they are an eternal soul and eternal being, well, that's an infinite gift that you've given to someone that goes on for all of eternity that's greater than any amount of money you could make or say you need to have or followers or anything like that.
Josh: It's so beautiful, man. I feel that in my cells, and I think about your journey in 2010 is when you first started. When did the website come out? That was the old site, Ben Greenfield Fitness, now it's Ben Greenfield Life.
Ben: Back in the day, I think I coded my first website in 2003. I don't recall when I launched the podcast.
Josh: But, it's been a while. Then, I think about your voice on London Real is where I think the world got a bigger look into your life and your psyche and now your courage and your ability to talk about your spiritual awakening, talk about what spirituality actually is. And, especially with “Endure,” I'm curious how you feel. Spiritual awakening is kind of similar to what the effects of melatonin are. We wake up in the morning and melatonin makes us a little groggy, and then eventually we wake up and we realize that a lot of the things that we've believed about society are actually not real. What is something that you used to believe about society and through your spiritual faith has allowed you to see it as a lie?
Ben: Well, this might open up the can of worms, but one thing I've realized through my faith is that people aren't inherently good. When left to our own volition, we make a lot of mistakes, we get selfish, we covet, we lie, we steal, we kill, we set up these pie-in-the-sky socialistic or communistic societies where we think that if we just encourage everyone to share, spread the wealth and take care of each other, everything will be just fine. We embrace what, for example, the hippie plant medicine movement of the '60s would have embraced that all we need is love. And, we're truly capable of that.
And, I've just seen so many times, people who rely upon their own goodness, people who do not realize that we are falling creatures and that we do need some kind of higher power or intelligent being to be able to help us, people who think that we humans can just do it on our own. You never see things go right. You never see things go right. And, yeah, I know where you and I are living in a country that was founded upon Christian principles and constitution influenced by Christianity, albeit with the separation of church and state so that the state wasn't able to commit the horrific religious atrocities that the many elements of the Catholic and the Orthodox and the Protestant Christianity committed over hundreds and hundreds of years. It's sad what many people will do in the name of God.
Yet, the idea of simply forming a society around absolute morality and truths influenced by an intelligent being is something that I see over and over again as a really, really good way for society to operate. And, there were certainly times in my life when if you were to ask me if we're just good and we're capable of being good on our own, I would have said, “Yeah, yeah, we just love each other.” But, the fact is, I actually think that is a myth, that it is false, that we need more than to just be good. And furthermore, we can't just be good on our own. I don't think human beings are capable of it.
Josh: Yeah. I think in order to have a healthy relationship, you can't just say, “Oh, well, love will always guide us, right?” No, that's not true. There's wisdom when we learn how to love. And so, if love was enough, then divorce rates wouldn't be 70, 80%. That wouldn't be the case.
So, how do you stay sustainable personally with your own spiritual growth without shaming yourself, without telling yourself, “I got to do more. I got to do more. I got to do more” or does that come up? And, how do you deal with it? In other words, how do you stay sustainable in your own spiritual growth?
Ben: Oh, well, by the nature of me knowing and acknowledging that I'm not good, that I can't do it on my own, that I need God's help, it's incredibly humbling to be able to just be on my knees each morning and say, “God, I give everyone and everything to you. I give everyone and everything to you. I can't do this. I can be good on my own. I can't be the father that I want to be on my own. I can't be the husband that I want to be on my own.” And, although this might sound like the total polar opposite of a positive affirmation, I'm a fallen creature and I would commit great evil if I were left all to myself. I know it. But, there's this great confidence that despite all of that, I am loved unconditionally. I've been offered a rescue line that's free and that all I need to do is rely upon the grace of God and His love to be able to help me be good. Even though I'm not inherently good, I can rely upon God's grace and help to be as close to good as I'm able to be. Well, I think that that gives you a great deal of hope in your life because all of a sudden you know you don't have to do it on your own. You don't have to do it on your own. You can rely upon a higher power to help you be the person that you want to be, and just you can't do it without that higher power.
Josh: You know what I've always felt as just the most mysterious question that turned into a certainty. It was people that are atheist, people that believe they're like, “There's no such thing as God. God doesn't exist.” And then, I ask them, “Why do you think that?” And, the majority of their answers are something like, “Well, there's no proof.” And, I said, “Well, that's interesting. If there's no proof, and that's the basis used to make your decision, then show me the proof that there isn't. Show me the proof that there isn't a God.” When I hold my son, there's no way you could share with me that that didn't carve out a space for God in my own heart. No way. There's nothing you could tell me. No research you could give me. I just know that feel. I know what that feels like. And so, have you had people —
Ben: [01:15:25] _____ ratios based on Fibonacci sequences built into each of your son's fingertips, and the helical structure of DNA and all these intense extremely complicated mathematical patterns and mathematical rules such as pi, for example, built into the universe. It's very difficult for that to randomly occurred.
Josh: Yes. And also, the same scientist that came up with all these theories. If you were to tell them, “Hey, what does it feel like, and what's the mathematic equation when you hold your son or daughter?” They wouldn't be able to tell you. There's no way they'd be able to share with you the mathematic output, the logical linear output of what love truly is.
I know we're getting to the end of the show here, Ben. So, I think about the biggest rocks that we could all move, both myself and us here in the community and also just as a society. I think if we just focus on the one, two, three biggest rocks that involve our spiritual intelligence, then we will be this beautiful society, this dream world. We will have it. We will live it. We will live heaven on Earth.
And, I know I'm trying to reductionize an incredibly thick and wisdom-packed book, but if you had to reductionize it down into three, take a breath from 30,000 feet, what are the biggest rocks that we can move when we look at being spiritually connected and being disciplined spiritually?
Ben: First, know that despite you may be having been given the impression that you can only go to God through a priest, or at a church or at an institution, or by slapping a specific religious label upon your forehead, back to what Jesus said, believe it was when he was speaking with a woman out of well about the water that can truly cure thirst. And, he said that you can worship God in spirit and in truth and Jesus lives in your heart. And, I think many, many people don't realize that everything, no matter where they're at in the world, exists for them to be able to commune with God with absolutely nothing. Back to plant medicines, no drugs, no plant medicines, no building, no brick, no mortar. And, yeah, there's benefits of having a community and being able to maybe go to church and sing songs with people, et cetera, that's all lovely. But, I think the first biggest thing is that God is freely available to you any time, any place, and it's pretty darn cool that you can talk to a deity, a freaking deity, again, without any drugs sitting in your backyard. It's overwhelming once you start to think about it. So, that would be one.
I would say that another would be that despite you and I both commenting earlier that we can't just do this love thing all on our own, we certainly do have something we live by in the Greenfield house that's written on the mission statement on our wall. And, part of our lives is that love does cover all. Love does cover all. We're so tempted to be bitter. We're so tempted to not forget. We're so tempted to hold grudges. It feels good to have some kind of angst and drama and some type of argument in your life. Many of us are conditioned to experience that.
But, man, when my sons and I have a disagreement, when my wife and I have a disagreement, when someone in my company and I have a disagreement, it always comes back to at the end of the day, love, love, love. You love that person. You set aside any disputes. You humble yourself and you forgive and you're forgiven. And, I just wrote a song about this like love endures, love strives, love is everlasting, love covers all. So, just understand that that's the most pure and powerful emotion that you can have in your life. And, I realize this sounds kind of woo. I think the reason for that is a lot of people know it, but not a lot of people practice it. Your wife drinks all the coffee and leaves you none, and you want to be upset with her for the rest of the day, instead you walk up to and you give her a big hug and you say, “I love you so much. You're the greatest thing that ever happened to me.” That's what I'm talking about literally acting it out in your day-to-day life. So, love covers all would be the second one in addition to being in full union with God any time and any place.
And, I think if I could name one more, I think that, gosh, just speaking about all the different ways that I could go with this, but I would say that many people, especially in the social media era where you can see other people living out what appeared to be amazing and extraordinary lives, and this is reminiscent of what you and I talked about regarding the Pixar movie “Soul.”
Ben: You were made for a reason. You're made for a reason. You just have to unlock it. You have an ikigai. You have a plan de vida. You have a purpose. And, it's so simple to have grass is always greener syndrome like we're talking about earlier. And, it's so simple for you to look at other people living out their purpose. And, I just wrote an article about this on my website. Yeah, other people have their purpose. They're an engineer. They're a doctor. They're an architect. They're an astronaut. They're gardener. And, what am I? Gosh, oh I know what to do is just like rake shit. They can write. And, it's very easy for me to think, “Why can't I make a cabinet like him?” Or, “Why can't I paint a watercolor masterpiece like her?” But, never underestimate the power of the unique skill sets and the things that come easy to you because that's how you can love the world the most. You just have to intimately become familiar with what it is that you're good at. And then, unashamedly take that and run with it in the spirit of not monetizing it but loving with it. And so, find your purpose, find your purpose, and know that you never have to be ashamed of that purpose, and that would be the third.
Josh: It's beautiful, man.
And, I have a new King James Version Bible in the guest room here in the studio and I flip through it sometimes. And, just this morning, I was like, “Hey, God, show me exactly what I need to see. Show me exactly what I need to see.” And, it came up on Mark 11:24, which is maybe it's because I've opened it to that page before, that's why it opened up there, but it's so powerful and it's a beautiful way to end with your reflection, and it's “Therefore I say unto you, what things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.” What is your interpretation of that? How is that played out in your own life, your podcast, your business, your family? You could call it law of attraction. You can call it manifestation, but that Mark 11:24 specifically, how has that played out for you?
Ben: Well, I think that some people hear something like that and they say, “Gosh, I've been praying for a Ferrari for the past three months and it hasn't come.”
Josh: How have they been praying? What words are they using?
Ben: Yeah. Not only what words are they using, but also comes back to the intent, comes back to the heart. That verse needs to be contextualized with the idea that if your heart is in the right place, you will ask for the things that you deserve to be given or that you should be given. In many cases, gosh, I've had gut issues for like four years. You know how many times I've prayed for God to just make my gut just work perfectly? “God, can I just like go out and eat whatever I want? And, can I just wake up in the morning and feel like I'm not battling some gut issue?” And, that hasn't happened. And then, when you step back and look at it, I've been able to help so many people with stomach and gut, and digestion issues because I've learned so much. I have been kept humble knowing that my body is not perfect, but I am somewhat broken that I'm not all that, I'm not Superman. I've been able to basically know that I am a human being in need of God.
And so, sometimes the prayers aren't answered because God knows that you actually need something better, and that's actually not what you need to be praying for. And then, the flip side of that is the faith component. I think some of us pray, but we don't really, really truly believe. That doesn't mean that if you really, really truly believe that God can make it happen, that it's going to happen again because he might have a different plan for your life or he might be drawing straight and crooked lines in ways that you cannot fathom, and it's all going to work out amazingly for you and eventually your prayer is going to be answered just in a different way than you anticipated. But, A, you must have your heart in the right place, and B, you must have faith that God can do anything. And, that's the way that I interpret that verse.
Josh: I think about the way that people pray, so it's like they're coming from scarcity. If a human being is coming from scarcity during a prayer, during a meditation, then isn't that all of what God hears is that person is in scarcity. So, what I get from 11:24 is if I want something, if I truly desire something from my heart, I'm actually thanking God, I'm thanking the creator in that moment for the very thing that I desire. And, I'm also feeling it in myself that it's already here.
Now, some people would say that's LOA, I think that LOA in the secret took it to a whole kind of wonky weird level. But, when I hear Mark 11:24 and even what I heard from you sharing the words in which I pray, I mean I'm casting a spell, the words in which I pray are so, so important because if I'm saying, “God, please heal me from this, please heal me from this.” Can we reframe it, Ben? Can we use different language? Can we actually say something like, “Thank you for this incredible gut health. Thank you all the different bacteria.” You could list out all the bacteria types and the [01:25:44] _____. How do we do that? How do we actually use words with 11:24 in the Scripture to have right now even if it doesn't feel like “we're worth it”?
Ben: Yeah. That comes down to, as you know, “The Biology of Belief.” This idea that you certainly can manifest to a certain extent by accepting that what you truly desire is going to come or has already come to you. I think that we know that the body's biology shifts in a certain way.
Ben: Again, back to the Ferrari analogy. I think we have to apply some wisdom and discernment to this and there's some exceptions to that. But, yeah, I think that if again you have the faith, you have the belief when you ask and you even tell yourself this is happening, this has happened, that that can certainly shift things dramatically even from a from a biological standpoint, what's the song from the old Moses cartoon. ♪ There can be miracles when you believe. Da-da-ra-ra-da-da. ♪
Josh: You heard it here first, Ben singing from a cartoon.
Ben, this has been awesome, man, I really appreciate you. And, this is the last question I'm going to ask you today for all of us. We've been on the edge of our seat and it's something that I'm learning how to integrate in my own life.
For me, my greatest lesson right now is physical. But, in this pentagon of wellness, there's the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial self. And, out of all of those points of the pentagon, imagine a house, the house that you live in or if you choose to live in a pentagon-style house, what does it mean to you? What is the meaning of all of this? How do you create meaning in the world when we look at wellness? How does Ben Greenfield define wellness? What does well-being actually mean to you?
Ben: Well, to me that's pretty simple. Well-being is caring for yourself in such a way that you can love as many people as possible with that unique purpose that you've been given. It's not living as long as possible, or crossing the finish line of as many triathlons or Spartan races as possible, or looking as good as possible in your swimsuit at the beach. And, all those things might be a natural consequence of you taking care of yourself. But ultimately, it's how can I quip myself to be able to help as many people as possible. It's kind of like that. Put your oxygen mask on first type of thing. And, it's like Jocko Willink says, “Discipline equals freedom.” Well, by finding discipline in each of those different categories, the freedom that you create is the freedom to be able to go forth and love and help a lot of people. And, that's my primary motivation to stay well is I love what I do and I want to be able to do it in just a clean, crisp, pure efficient way as possible each day. And, I feel like my well-being allows me to do that.
Josh: You made me really almost take a internal deep breath on this one. You did. Do you feel like freedom is also your ability to share with others yourself in God that you maybe don't have something figured out or that you have a limiting belief? In other words, is freedom also being vulnerable?
Ben: Oh, my gosh, absolutely. I mean, you're talking to a guy who shot himself is about the most egotistical, arrogant, invulnerable, bulletproof person possible. I grew that shell being homeschooled K through 12 and thinking I was the weird one. So, every time I was in any public situation, I had to project myself as knowing it all, having it all figured out and basically figured out impostor syndrome and how to tackle that with confidence really, really fast. But, of course, the shadow side to that is a tendency to have difficulty with vulnerability. I've found though that radical honesty, vulnerability, showing your true emotions, and admitting when you don't know when you're wrong is indeed one of the most freeing things that human beings can do.
Josh: And it's practical too because whenever somebody's lost, all they have to do, I have a call in like a couple minutes with one of my guides from the vision quest, and I know that you know him, Tim Corcoran and Mark Tollefson, and I'm speaking to him right after you. It's no surprise.
Anyways, I'll leave y'all with this. And then, Ben, please tell people where they can get the book and follow you and the podcast and everything else. But, the thing I want to leave you all with is that if you're in the middle of the forest and you're lost, just stop. Just stop, stop and breathe. You're going to be found eventually as long as you stop. I think so many of us, Ben, we get caught up in this manic action where it's like, “Well, if I'm not happy, I have to do, do, do, do, do.” And, it's actually not the case. I think that all of us could learn from many pages in the book, but there was some beautiful lessons in there that I have highlighted that we'll share about at WellnessForce.com/Community. You guys can also go to JoshTrent.com/podcast. So, JoshTrent.com/podcast.
Ben, where can they get “Endure“? Where is the actual URL for “Endure”?
Josh: Okay, I got the book. It's shopBenGreenfieldLife.com/products/Endure.
Ben, thank you so much for coming on the show. I've enjoyed watching you walk on the wisdom.
Ben: Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me.
So, there's two events coming up. You can go to both of them. I'm going to go to both of them. Obviously, I'm going to fly to Texas, then fly over to Lexington. The Texas event called RUNGA is October 13th through the 15th. The Wild Health One is October 22nd. Go to both. I am obviously.
You can also check BenGreenfieldLife.com/Calendar for all of the events that I'll be teaching at this year. So, I hope to see you there.
More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot.
Back in June of this year, I published a two-part article and podcast series on some of the huge problems with the growing surge in popularity of plant medicines.
In that comprehensive article and podcast series, that provoked a wide range of responses, I detailed my reasoning for reaching this conclusion (you can read Part 1 here and Part 2 here). And while I've returned to reiterate this decision here and there since June, I have not yet – until now – devoted an entire follow-up podcast to the subject.
Today I'm doing just that, as a guest on my friend Josh Trent's Wellness + Wisdom Podcast. Josh is the CEO and founder of Wellness Force Media, a company that has a mission to help humans heal mental, emotional, and physical health through podcasts, programs, and a global community that believes in optimizing their potential to live life well. Josh has spent the past 19+ years as a trainer, researcher, and facilitator discovering the physical and emotional intelligence for humans to thrive in our modern world.
In Josh's words, he has been “bouncing around inside my orbit and consciousness) for 10+ years now, but it took this rather polarizing and controversial to bring us together for a real discussion on his Wellness + Wisdom podcast.
Now, Josh is not for or against plant medicines. He does believe that plant medicines have special use cases, and that four lifesaving “levers” that need to be taken into account when considering usage:
- Preparation. Was the plant medicine prepared in a sacred way? Does the shaman or facilitator have the sacred experience and trusted lineage, combined with a pure heart?
- Setting. Has the space been properly cleared of dark energies, and are all participants aligned with humility and curiosity?
- Intention. Has the participant done preliminary work to get very clear on their intention, and to not come to the medicine with a disempowered wish?
- Integration. Is there a pre-, peri-, and post-integration skilled facilitator so the participant will avoid going away with no lessons learned?
This podcast episode may ruffle some feathers. But at the end of the day, you are the only one who can answer the profoundly important question of whether or not you will partake in plant medicine. Hopefully, this fascinating conversation with Josh will get you thinking (and if you'd rather watch the video, that's below, too).
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-Ben's stance on plant medicines…11:17
- Plant medicine podcasts:
- Chek Institute
- Josh with Paul Chek:
- How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
- By plant medicine, Ben refers to psychedelics, compounds from the plant kingdom traditionally used for:
- Divining with the gods
- Witchcraft and sorcery
- The occult
- Astral projection and other activities involving interaction with entities (angels and demons, etc.)
- Compounds that have been traditionally used for religious activities are now used recreationally:
- Iboga or Ibogaine
- Synthetics like ketamine and LSD
- Very few people who have used these medicines to journey deny the existence of a spiritual dimension
- Some elements of the plant kingdom are portals via which the spiritual dimension interacts with the earthly dimension
- Ben is now putting up a big red warning flag in the use of these substances in a recreational/unsupervised setting
- You open yourself up to a great deal of influence from spirits or the shaman/facilitator overseeing the experience; you carry the risk of being influenced spiritually by another person
- New York Magazine Cover Story: Power Trip
- A more serious risk is being influenced by a spiritual or demonic entity
- Aubrey Marcus and the ONNIT tribe have brought plant medicine first and foremost on the scene
- Podcast with Aubrey Marcus:
-The shift Ben experienced in his being that made him decide to stop using plant medicines…20:05
- Runga Q&A podcast:
- Podcast with Will Ahmed about Ben’s daily routine:
- Pharmakia in the Bible
- Pharmakia – using drugs to interact with the spiritual world
- Pharmakia by Robert Orem
- All Is God: Three Part Series podcast of Josh Trent with Paul Chek
- Universal teachings that have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with spiritual awareness and awakening
- Plants put on the earth for our benefit have been bastardized
- Putting ourselves in harm’s way when these compounds are used for purposes beyond God's intentions
- Proponents of the use of psychedelics:
- Plants Of The Gods Podcast – Mark Plotkin with Paul Stamets
- One of the biggest barriers to the growth of a belief in God, in Christianity, is plant medicine
- Very easy to put your faith in having God at your beck and call, being able to divine, being able to experience God but not ever truly knowing God
- Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung: Be careful of unearned wisdom
- Podcast with Brian Rose:
-Unearned wisdom and climbing the mountain of spirituality…31:33
- Ben believes his spiritual practices protected him from bad experiences during plant medicine ceremonies
- Endure by Ben Greenfield
- Early church Gnostics believed that the way to God was only accessible to certain people
- Plant medicine ceremonies, done the right and safe way, is one path to God, not the path to God
- Exploring the dark side of the world and in religion
- Wellness and Wisdom Podcast: Death and Rebirth
- Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy
-The dark side of plant medicines…39:56
- Wellness and Wisdom Podcast: Hamilton Souther – Plant Medicine: The Dark & The Light
- Many atheists have come to know God through plant medicine
- You can take all precautions at your disposal during a plant medicine ceremony but you cannot outplay the demon; plant medicine is not the appropriate way to God
- Scenarios where plant medicine has an appropriate use
- To open your heart to connect more deeply with your lover
- Microdosing psilocybin for increased sensory perception, creativity, or awareness; like a Stamets' stack
- Podcast with James Fadiman:
- For couples' therapy without the intention of diving into the spiritual world
- Medically supervised end-of-life therapy
- Supervised trauma therapy
- Some facilitators who have switched to a synthetic approach have found that dark energies do not exist
- Alexander Shulgin
-Where does intention come from?…54:27
- Coming into a ceremony with pure intentions (coming from the heart) is just as important
- Ben once sensed dark energy before a ceremony
- Ben wants his sons, or anyone, to know that they can go to God anytime without drugs
-Ben's take on Isaiah 45:7…57:02
- “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7
- Ben has experienced “God draws straight with crooked lines” several times in his life
- Podcast with Paul Chek:
- Desire to create because God made us in his image and also gave us free will
- The nature of free will allows for a lot of mistakes and evil; lessons from mistakes teach us to love others more
- God allows bad things to happen to teach us about unconditional love
- Are bad things just consequences of wisdom? Cause and effect?
- Not only does God use people to punish those who have become so evil (Joshua or Judges) but he also uses natural disasters (hailstones and fire)
- “I think, unfortunately, one of the things that could stand in the way or impede the progress of that is people placing their faith in plant medicine, rather than people placing their faith in the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.” – Ben
- Pixar's movie Soul
- 3 gems/pieces of wisdom that Ben includes in his book, Endure
- Stop and smell the roses
- The grass is always greener
- Find your spark
- BGL article: Sabbath Ramblings: Soul
- That there's a lot more to us than just flesh and blood
- C.S. Lewis says something like – an immortal soul capable of being a horrific monster or an incredible immortal being
- Finding your unique spark does not require you to be earning a lot
- For Ben, living a simple yet extraordinary life is his spark
- Changing the world and helping one person at a time is far greater than any amount of money
-Ben's spiritual awakening and what he used to believe about society as real but through his spiritual faith he has seen as a lie?…1:09:47
- People aren't inherently good
- When left to our own volition, we get selfish, we covet, we lie, we steal, we kill
- We are fallen creatures and we need a higher power to help us
- When we think we can do it on our own, we never see things go right
- The idea of forming a society around absolute morality and truth, influenced by an intelligent being is seen as a good way for society to operate
- We need more than to just be good; we can't just be good on our own
-How does Ben stay sustainable in his own spiritual growth?…1:12:47
- Knowing and acknowledging that I'm not good, that I can't do it on my own, I need God's help
- What gives Ben confidence and hope is knowing that there is a rescue line extended, for free
- Josh finds it hard to believe atheists who say there's no proof of God
-What are the 3 biggest rocks that we all could move as a society?…1:16:06
- Know that Jesus lives in our hearts and we don’t need plant medicine to commune with God
- Love covers all
- At the end of the day, you set aside disputes, you humble yourself, you are forgiven, you forgive
- You were made for a reason; you have a purpose
- Never underestimate the power of the unique skill sets and the things that come easy for you because that's how you can love the world the most
- Find your purpose and know that you never have to be ashamed of that purpose
- BGL article: Sabbath Ramblings: How To Find Your Purpose In Life.
-How has Mark 11:24 played out for Ben in his own life?…1:21:40
- “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Mark 11:24
- It's in the intent; in the heart
- If your heart's in the right place, you ask for things that you deserve or should be given
- Sometimes, prayers aren't answered because God knows that you actually need something better
- Some pray but do not truly believe
- Eventually, prayers are answered, just in a different way than you anticipated
- Josh thinks that some people pray from a place of scarcity; If I truly desire something from my heart, I am thanking the creator for that thing that I desire and I am feeling it in myself that it is already here
- The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton
-How do you create meaning in the world when you look at wellness? How does Ben define wellness or wellbeing?…1:26:57
- Wellbeing is caring for yourself in such a way that you can love as many people as possible with that unique purpose that you've been given
- As Jocko Willink says: Discipline equals freedom
-Is freedom also being vulnerable?…1:28:46
- Impostor syndrome and how to tackle that with confidence
- Honesty, vulnerability, showing your true emotions, and admitting that you don't know when you're wrong is the most freeing thing a human being can do
- When you're in the middle of the forest and you are lost, just stop, just stop and breathe
- Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina
-And much more…
- Wild Health Event – Oct. 22nd, 2022. Explore my event and many others at wildhealthsummit.com
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldlife.com/calendar
Resources from this episode:
– Josh Trent:
- Wellness and Wisdom Podcast
- BREATHE | Breath & Wellness: 21 Day Guided Program
- Civilized Caveman
- Paul Chek | All Is God: Three Part Series
- YouTube video of Josh's and Ben's Plant Medicine conversation
- Ben Greenfield: Should You STOP Using Plant Medicines? Wisdom on Microdosing, The Muscle of Faith + How to Grow Your Spiritual Strength
– Podcasts And articles:
- Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 2
- Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 1
- The Meaning Of Life, Making Friends, Plant Medicines In The Bible, Daily Spiritual Routines, Rites Of Passage & More With Ben Greenfield & Aubrey Marcus.
- The Ultimate Detoxification Guide: How To Use Supplements, Saunas, Skin Brushing & More To Quickly & Safely Clean Up Your Body: An Official “RUNGA” Q&A.
- A Day In The Life Of Ben Greenfield: Ben’s Exact Morning, Afternoon & Evening Routines.
- Ayahuasca, Smart Drugs, Anti-Aging & More with Brian Rose of London Real
- Microdosing For Sports Performance, Microdosing Stacks With Psychedelics & Plant Medicines, The Best Microdosing Protocols & Much More With James Fadiman.
- BioGeometry Protection Of Your Home, Plant Medicine, Parenting, Stacking Rocks, Stages Of Human Consciousness & More With Paul Chek.
- Sabbath Ramblings: Soul
- Sabbath Ramblings: How To Find Your Purpose In Life.
- Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina by Ben Greenfield
- How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
- Pharmakia by Robert Orem
- Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy
- The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton
– Other Resources:
- Chek Institute
- Aubrey Marcus
- Aldous Huxley
- Aleister Crowley
- Timothy Leary
- Alexander Shulgin
- Pharmakia In The Bible
- New York Magazine Cover Story: Power Trip
Joy Mode: Want to spice things up in the bedroom and boost your sexual performance? And do it naturally without nasty prescription drugs? We have a special offer for the Ben Greenfield audience. Go to usejoymode.com/GREENFIELD or enter GREENFIELD at checkout for 20% off your first order.
BIOPTIMIZERS (MAG): These 7 essential forms of Magnesium included in this full spectrum serving help you relax, unwind and turn off your active brain after a long stressful day so you can rest peacefully and wake up feeling refreshed, vibrant and alert. Go to magbreakthrough.com/ben and use code ben10 for 10% off any order
Organifi (Red): Recharge your mind and body with a delicious superfood berry blend of premium, organic superfoods that contain potent adaptogens, antioxidants, and a clinical dose of cordyceps. Increase energy and boost nitric oxide levels with zero caffeine and only 2 grams of sugar. Go to organifi.com/Ben for 20% off your order.
Kion Aminos: Building blocks for muscle recovery, reduced cravings, better cognition, immunity, and more. Go to https://getkion.com/bengreenfield to receive 20% off on monthly deliveries and 10% on one-time purchases.
Wild Health: Wild Health, a precision medicine company, is hosting a series of events with some amazing guests, with the intention of providing people the opportunity to heal their spirit, connect with their true nature and wake up to reality, they’re calling it the ‘Awake and Aware Series.’ If you'd like to join, visit bengreenfieldlife.com/wildhealthprinciples and use code BG15 to get 15% off the event price.