September 3, 2022

Back in June of this year, I published a two-part article and podcast series on some of the huge problems with the growing surge in popularity of plant medicines.

In that comprehensive article and podcast series, that provoked a wide range of responses, I detailed my reasoning for reaching this conclusion (you can read Part 1 here and Part 2 here). And while I've returned to reiterate this decision here and there since June, I have not yet – until now – devoted an entire follow-up podcast to the subject.

Today I'm doing just that, as a guest on my friend Josh Trent's Wellness + Wisdom Podcast. Josh is the CEO and founder of Wellness Force Media, a company that has a mission to help humans heal mental, emotional, and physical health through podcasts, programs, and a global community that believes in optimizing their potential to live life well. Josh has spent the past 19+ years as a trainer, researcher, and facilitator discovering the physical and emotional intelligence for humans to thrive in our modern world.

In Josh's words, he has been “bouncing around inside my orbit and consciousness) for 10+ years now, but it took this rather polarizing and controversial to bring us together for a real discussion on his Wellness + Wisdom podcast.

Now, Josh is not for or against plant medicines. He does believe that plant medicines have special use cases, and that four lifesaving “levers” that need to be taken into account when considering usage:

1. Preparation. Was the plant medicine prepared in a sacred way? Does the shaman or facilitator have the sacred experience and trusted lineage, combined with a pure heart?
2. Setting. Has the space been properly cleared of dark energies, and are all participants aligned with humility and curiosity?
3. Intention. Has the participant done preliminary work to get very clear on their intention, and to not come to the medicine with a disempowered wish?
4. Integration. Is there a pre-, peri-, and post-integration skilled facilitator so the participant will avoid going away with no lessons learned?

This podcast episode may ruffle some feathers. But at the end of the day, you are the only one who can answer the profoundly important question of whether or not you will partake in plant medicine. Hopefully, this fascinating conversation with Josh will get you thinking (and if you'd rather watch the video, that's below, too).

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-Ben's stance on plant medicines…11:17

• Plant medicine podcasts:
  • Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 2
  • Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 1
• Chek Institute
• Josh with Paul Chek:
  • Paul Chek | All Is God: Three Part Series
• How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
• By plant medicine, Ben refers to psychedelics, compounds from the plant kingdom traditionally used for:
  • Divining with the gods
  • Witchcraft and sorcery
  • The occult
  • Astral projection and other activities involving interaction with entities (angels and demons, etc.)
• Compounds that have been traditionally used for religious activities are now used recreationally:
  • Psilocybin
  • Huachuma
  • DMT
  • Iboga or Ibogaine
  • Synthetics like ketamine and LSD
• Very few people who have used these medicines to journey deny the existence of a spiritual dimension
• Some elements of the plant kingdom are portals via which the spiritual dimension interacts with the earthly dimension
• Ben is now putting up a big red warning flag in the use of these substances in a recreational/unsupervised setting
• You open yourself up to a great deal of influence from spirits or the shaman/facilitator overseeing the experience; you carry the risk of being influenced spiritually by another person
• New York Magazine Cover Story: Power Trip 
• A more serious risk is being influenced by a spiritual or demonic entity
• Aubrey Marcus and the ONNIT tribe have brought plant medicine first and foremost on the scene
• Podcast with Aubrey Marcus:
  • The Meaning Of Life, Making Friends, Plant Medicines In The Bible, Daily Spiritual Routines, Rites Of Passage & More With Ben Greenfield & Aubrey Marcus. 

-The shift Ben experienced in his being that made him decide to stop using plant medicines…20:05 

• Runga
• Runga Q&A podcast:
  • The Ultimate Detoxification Guide: How To Use Supplements, Saunas, Skin Brushing & More To Quickly & Safely Clean Up Your Body: An Official “RUNGA” Q&A.
• Podcast with Will Ahmed about Ben’s daily routine:
  • A Day In The Life Of Ben Greenfield: Ben’s Exact Morning, Afternoon & Evening Routines.
• Pharmakia in the Bible
• Pharmakia – using drugs to interact with the spiritual world
• Pharmakia by Robert Orem
• All Is God: Three Part Series podcast of Josh Trent with Paul Chek
• Universal teachings that have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with spiritual awareness and awakening
• Plants put on the earth for our benefit have been bastardized 
• Putting ourselves in harm’s way when these compounds are used for purposes beyond God's intentions   
• Proponents of the use of psychedelics:
  • Aldous Huxley
  • Aleister Crowley
  • Timothy Leary
• Plants Of The Gods Podcast – Mark Plotkin with Paul Stamets
• One of the biggest barriers to the growth of a belief in God, in Christianity, is plant medicine
• Very easy to put your faith in having God at your beck and call, being able to divine, being able to experience God but not ever truly knowing God
• Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung: Be careful of unearned wisdom 
• Podcast with Brian Rose:
  • Ayahuasca, Smart Drugs, Anti-Aging & More with Brian Rose of London Real.

-Unearned wisdom and climbing the mountain of spirituality…31:33

• Ben believes his spiritual practices protected him from bad experiences during plant medicine ceremonies
• Endure by Ben Greenfield
• Early church Gnostics believed that the way to God was only accessible to certain people
• Plant medicine ceremonies, done the right and safe way, is one path to God, not the path to God
• Exploring the dark side of the world and in religion
• Wellness and Wisdom Podcast: Death and Rebirth
• Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy

-The dark side of plant medicines…39:56

• Wellness and Wisdom Podcast: Hamilton Souther – Plant Medicine: The Dark & The Light
• Many atheists have come to know God through plant medicine
• You can take all precautions at your disposal during a plant medicine ceremony but you cannot outplay the demon; plant medicine is not the appropriate way to God
• Scenarios where plant medicine has an appropriate use
  • To open your heart to connect more deeply with your lover
  • Microdosing psilocybin for increased sensory perception, creativity, or awareness; like a Stamets' stack
  • Podcast with James Fadiman:
    • Microdosing For Sports Performance, Microdosing Stacks With Psychedelics & Plant Medicines, The Best Microdosing Protocols & Much More With James Fadiman.
  • For couples' therapy without the intention of diving into the spiritual world
  • Medically supervised end-of-life therapy
  • Supervised trauma therapy
• Some facilitators who have switched to a synthetic approach have found that dark energies do not exist
• Alexander Shulgin

-Where does intention come from?…54:27

• Coming into a ceremony with pure intentions (coming from the heart) is just as important
• Ben once sensed dark energy before a ceremony
• Ben wants his sons, or anyone, to know that they can go to God anytime without drugs

-Ben's take on Isaiah 45:7…57:02

• “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7
• Ben has experienced “God draws straight with crooked lines” several times in his life
• Podcast with Paul Chek:
  • BioGeometry Protection Of Your Home, Plant Medicine, Parenting, Stacking Rocks, Stages Of Human Consciousness & More With Paul Chek.
• Desire to create because God made us in his image and also gave us free will
• The nature of free will allows for a lot of mistakes and evil; lessons from mistakes teach us to love others more
• God allows bad things to happen to teach us about unconditional love
• Are bad things just consequences of wisdom? Cause and effect?
• Not only does God use people to punish those who have become so evil (Joshua or Judges) but he also uses natural disasters (hailstones and fire)
• “I think, unfortunately, one of the things that could stand in the way or impede the progress of that is people placing their faith in plant medicine, rather than people placing their faith in the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.” – Ben

–Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina…1:04:22

• Pixar's movie Soul
• 3 gems/pieces of wisdom that Ben includes in his book, Endure
  1. Stop and smell the roses
  2. The grass is always greener
  3. Find your spark
• BGL article: Sabbath Ramblings: Soul
• That there's a lot more to us than just flesh and blood
• C.S. Lewis says something like – an immortal soul capable of being a horrific monster or an incredible immortal being
• Finding your unique spark does not require you to be earning a lot
• For Ben, living a simple yet extraordinary life is his spark
• Changing the world and helping one person at a time is far greater than any amount of money

-Ben's spiritual awakening and what he used to believe about society as real but through his spiritual faith he has seen as a lie?…1:09:47

• People aren't inherently good
• When left to our own volition, we get selfish, we covet, we lie, we steal, we kill
• We are fallen creatures and we need a higher power to help us
• When we think we can do it on our own, we never see things go right
• The idea of forming a society around absolute morality and truth, influenced by an intelligent being is seen as a good way for society to operate
• We need more than to just be good; we can't just be good on our own

-How does Ben stay sustainable in his own spiritual growth?…1:12:47

• Knowing and acknowledging that I'm not good, that I can't do it on my own, I need God's help
• What gives Ben confidence and hope is knowing that there is a rescue line extended, for free
• Josh finds it hard to believe atheists who say there's no proof of God

-What are the 3 biggest rocks that we all could move as a society?…1:16:06

1. Know that Jesus lives in our hearts and we don’t need plant medicine to commune with God 
2. Love covers all
   • At the end of the day, you set aside disputes, you humble yourself, you are forgiven, you forgive

3. You were made for a reason; you have a purpose
   • Never underestimate the power of the unique skill sets and the things that come easy for you because that's how you can love the world the most
   • Find your purpose and know that you never have to be ashamed of that purpose

• BGL article: Sabbath Ramblings: How To Find Your Purpose In Life.

-How has Mark 11:24 played out for Ben in his own life?…1:21:40

• “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Mark 11:24
• It's in the intent; in the heart
• If your heart's in the right place, you ask for things that you deserve or should be given
• Sometimes, prayers aren't answered because God knows that you actually need something better
• Some pray but do not truly believe
• Eventually, prayers are answered, just in a different way than you anticipated
• Josh thinks that some people pray from a place of scarcity; If I truly desire something from my heart, I am thanking the creator for that thing that I desire and I am feeling it in myself that it is already here
• The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton

-How do you create meaning in the world when you look at wellness? How does Ben define wellness or wellbeing?…1:26:57

• Wellbeing is caring for yourself in such a way that you can love as many people as possible with that unique purpose that you've been given
• As Jocko Willink says: Discipline equals freedom

-Is freedom also being vulnerable?…1:28:46

•  Impostor syndrome and how to tackle that with confidence
• Honesty, vulnerability, showing your true emotions, and admitting that you don't know when you're wrong is the most freeing thing a human being can do
• When you're in the middle of the forest and you are lost, just stop, just stop and breathe
• Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina

-And much more…

Upcoming Events:

Runga: October 13th-15th, 2022 (Austin, TX)

This is the one event every year that I never miss. Join myself and my family to tap into your full potential over three days of fully immersive programming and therapies. Gourmet organic chef-prepared meals, live podcast recordings, and personalized health consulting make this a once-in-a-lifetime experience. There are only fifty spots available, so claim yours today here.

Wild Health Awake + Aware Principles: October 22nd, 2022 (Lexington, KY)

Join me for a one-day intensive experience where I will guide you through a series of interactive lectures that explore purpose, meaning, and spiritual health. VIP guests will also join me on an immersive walk through nature and intimate dinner. Learn more here.

Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar!

Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldfitness.com/calendar!

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– Josh Trent:

• Wellness and Wisdom Podcast
• BREATHE | Breath & Wellness: 21 Day Guided Program
• Civilized Caveman
• Paul Chek | All Is God: Three Part Series
• YouTube video of Josh's and Ben's Plant Medicine conversation
• Ben Greenfield: Should You STOP Using Plant Medicines? Wisdom on Microdosing, The Muscle of Faith + How to Grow Your Spiritual Strength

– Podcasts And articles:

• Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 2
• Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using “Plant Medicines”: Part 1
• The Meaning Of Life, Making Friends, Plant Medicines In The Bible, Daily Spiritual Routines, Rites Of Passage & More With Ben Greenfield & Aubrey Marcus. 
• The Ultimate Detoxification Guide: How To Use Supplements, Saunas, Skin Brushing & More To Quickly & Safely Clean Up Your Body: An Official “RUNGA” Q&A.
• A Day In The Life Of Ben Greenfield: Ben’s Exact Morning, Afternoon & Evening Routines.
• Ayahuasca, Smart Drugs, Anti-Aging & More with Brian Rose of London Real
• Microdosing For Sports Performance, Microdosing Stacks With Psychedelics & Plant Medicines, The Best Microdosing Protocols & Much More With James Fadiman.
• BioGeometry Protection Of Your Home, Plant Medicine, Parenting, Stacking Rocks, Stages Of Human Consciousness & More With Paul Chek.
• Sabbath Ramblings: Soul
• Sabbath Ramblings: How To Find Your Purpose In Life.

– Books:

• Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina by Ben Greenfield
• How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
• Pharmakia by Robert Orem
• Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy
• The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton

– Other Resources:

• Chek Institute
• Aubrey Marcus
• Aldous Huxley
• Aleister Crowley
• Timothy Leary
• Alexander Shulgin
• Soul
• Pharmakia In The Bible
• New York Magazine Cover Story: Power Trip 
• Runga

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Wild Health: Wild Health, a precision medicine company, is hosting a series of events with some amazing guests, with the intention of providing people the opportunity to heal their spirit, connect with their true nature and wake up to reality, they’re calling it the ‘Awake and Aware Series.’ If you'd like to join, visit bengreenfieldlife.com/wildhealthprinciples and use code BG15 to get 15% off the event price.