April 21, 2022
[00:00:56] Podcast Sponsors
[00:05:52] Guests Introduction
[00:09:16] How Jordan and Andrew met and began working together
[00:13:21] Andrew's TBI protocol that was shared on the internet and caught Ben's eye years ago
[00:24:15] Podcast Sponsors
[00:29:03] cont. Andrew's TBI protocol
[00:32:18] How Jordan identifies as “hardcore keto”
[00:44:44] Non-negotiables in Andrew and Jordan's daily routines
[00:57:20] A few of the unlimited benefits of NFTs
[01:07:02] Why NFT.com is the bee's knees of the NFT space
[01:26:09] Top things Jordan and Andrew do to maximize productivity during long work hours
[01:30:57] Podcast Sponsor
[01:32:04] End of Podcast
Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.
Jordan: Biohackers are obsessed with just, how do you hack and optimize your health?
If you can apply that same rigor to your body, you can certainly do it to your finances.
Andrew: What we see it really as the birth of an ecosystem of this new technological trend is governed and controlled by the community.
Jordan: We wanted to create this information superhighway, but in a well-intentioned effort to keep everything free, we've become productive.
Andrew: 2021. Yes, I was buying them in 2017. It was me buying Bitcoin in 2011 and people were like, “That's ridiculous.”
Ben: Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.
Hey. So, have you ever heard of this stuff called urolithin? Spelled U-R-O-L-I-T-H-I-N. And, if you haven't heard of it, you're going to be hearing a lot more about it. It's the brand-new darling on the anti-aging scene. It's based on this concept of postbiotics. So, postbiotics are what the bacteria in your gut, for example, can make. A probiotic would feed on a prebiotic, but it'd make a postbiotic. And, some postbiotics can actually kind of upgrade your body's cellular power grid giving your body the energy that it needs to optimize, to build strength, to build endurance, and even to fight aging. So, these postbiotics your body makes them during digestion, but you can also consume Urolithin A as an anti-aging hack.
And, there's a company called Timeline Nutrition. They're a Swiss-based life science company. They're the global leader in urolithin A research. They make urolithin product that's not only NSF certified for sport but comes in this very simple capsule that you can take or a powder that you can mix into your breakfast, yogurt, your daily smoothie. They have a powder that's a protein. So, it's whey protein mixed with the bioenergetics of the urolithin in a form called Mitopure. And then, they have, like I mentioned, these little soft gel capsules.
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Alright, folks. Well, strap yourselves in for a wild ride today because while most of my guests are indeed in the realm of health, and biohacking, and fitness, my guests today are not only into all that but they're also into this idea of health being about more than just biohacking. These guys have studied up on wealth, they've set up on relationships and they also happen to be real experts in the whole realm of crypto and NFTs. And so, this is going to be a fun discussion.
Andrew Masanto is a guy who I ran into quite some time ago in New York City, I believe it was Dr. Halland Chen, I think, who might have introduced us. But anyways, I got a chance to hang out with Andrew and kind of see him in his space over there a few years ago. He owns Biohackinggroup.com. He's a serial entrepreneur. He's an investor. He's very active in Blockchain. He was the founding CMO of Reserve, which is backed by Peter Thiel, and Coinbase, and a few others, which is currently at a 1 billion-plus valuation. He's the founding CMO of another company called Hedera Hashgraph, which is backed by Google, and IBM, and Boeing with a fully diluted 10 billion-plus valuation, and crypto recently launched an NFT-based website that he'll be talking about quite a bit as well. And, he's lectured on internet marketing, Harvard Business School, he founded and sold Higher Click SEO agency. He's lectured at Oxford University. He is widely quoted by a lot of industry leaders on growth marketing. He has worked as a lawyer in the UK as an investment banking analyst in Australia. So, this guy is up to quite a bit. He's a real renaissance dude.
Andrew, before I introduce your partner in crime who's also joining us, say hello just so people know your voices.
Andrew: Hey, Ben, that was quite the introduction. I'm going to make sure that my staff never give that length of introduction again to anyone.
Ben: People send me these bios and I got to fill people in. Hey, at least, that'll help to make you credible, man. I got to make you sound smart.
Jordan is my other podcast guest on today's show, Jordan Fried. He's a blockchain evangelist, a crypto capitalist. He's currently the Chairman and the CEO of Immutable Holdings, which is “The Blockchain Holdings Company.” He founded and operates NFT.com, which is a relatively newly launched website we'll be talking about as well as Immutable Asset Management. He was also part of the founding team behind Hedera Hashgraph. He served as Senior VP of Business Development there until the end of 2020. And, they signed partnerships again with Google, and IBM, and Boeing, and LG Electronics. And, that kind of launched that particular offering into being one of the top 100 cryptocurrencies in the world. And, Jordan has also co-founded and served the CEO of Buffered VPN, which is a real popular VPN service online. And, Jordan's been involved in bitcoin and crypto since 2012.
So, Jordan, welcome also to today's show.
Jordan: Thanks, Ben. Big fan and super excited to talk about the intersection between biohacking your world and crypto because I think there's a lot more overlap than people realize.
Ben: And, I actually want to get into quite a bit about that. But, first of all, tell me about you guys a story. How did you meet? And, what's been the journey of you two working together?
Andrew: Well, we have really been through quite a few companies together, Jordan and I. Our story dates back in, I think, close to 2010 over 10 years ago. I'd started Higher Click, Jordan came in as sort of almost CEO really and he built that company up, the one I started to sell. Eventually, he started Buffered VPN and I went on to do internet marketing. And then, in 2017, we sort of reunited after he just sold Buffered VPN. We reunited and started Hedera Hashgraph together. And, man, that was just timing.
Within six months, we had raised 100 million at a $6 billion valuation. Now, it's at between 10 to $20 billion evaluation. And then, he came to me more recently and it's just so hard to say no to this guy because he's a great salesman. And, B, he and I have many passions together and we've been together for such a long time. I think that's one thing to emphasize. We have kept a strong bond over time. He's someone I deeply trust and love. And, our paths have collided and we've just added a lot of value to each other. So, I'm really grateful for that long-term relationship and for our continued success all the way up to what is now us co-founding NFT.com together.
Jordan: Yeah. I've got to give the other perspective, Ben, because the truth is Andrew's always been one step ahead of me. He's a few years older and definitely a few years wiser. But, when he was just getting into performance marketing or sort of actually, I would say just getting out of performance marketing and moving on to the next thing, I was really just getting into it. When Andrew and I had met, I mean, Andrew has been over a decade now, it was clear of me that this guy is on the bleeding edge of what's coming often before other people realize it. You got to realize at the time, we were doing search engine optimization, it was still a relatively nascent industry. It's a cottage industry for those that don't know optimizing your search profile so you rank higher in the SEO cert pages. It's very lucrative. If you can rank number one for best credit cards, that's a $100 million a year keyword for companies like NerdWallet that do credit card offers and get paid out by all the banks to have those keywords. So, Andrew had kind of dominated that space, had moved on, and then I'd kind of come join him in some of those industries.
So, to his credit, when I had exited from my VPN company and I'd actually just moved to New York, it was really just, I think, Andrew somewhat serendipitous. You asked me what I was doing at the time, I had just had this liquidity event. I was day trading cryptocurrency and he said, “Hey, read this white paper.” And, it was the Hedera Hashgraph white paper. So, I poured a bunch of my newly found liquidity into that project somewhat blindly knowing more that business is mostly about people, it's about working with people who you trust, people that are high integrity. I had been impressed with Andrew's ability too and this is kind of where some of his biohacking comes in, just sort of optimize and operate in peak performance. He's one of the few guys I know that can actually pull off an 18-hour workday. A lot of people say that they work 18 hours. Andrew, somehow gets it and Andrew gets that done. So, yeah, it's been an unbelievable journey. And then, Hedera obviously wasn't the last thing we did together. I had been trying to get him to come get involved in several of the other domains I had been picking up. And finally, we agreed and we had to do something in the NFT space, and happy we are.
Ben: Yeah. Well, I can certainly attest to Andrew's go-gettedness because I remember, I guess, it was probably three or four years ago, I published a post to my Facebook group about this very impressive concussion and TBI management regimen that Andrew had filled me in. I mean, it was crazy. It was everything from vagal nerve stimulation devices to brain photobiomodulation to a special brain shake with about 100 different ingredients. And, this was all based off of a discussion that Andrew and I had about his management of a pretty serious head injury that he sustained. And, I think that that alone, we could probably fill people in on that protocol and they could press stop now on the podcast once they hear it because I think it's one of the best concussion management protocols I'd ever seen. And, Andrew, I'm curious if you could fill people in on that little head injury that you had.
Ben: How it occurred and what you strung together as this concussion or TBI management protocol.
Andrew: Yeah. So, when I dive into something, I go 110%. And, whether that'd be on business or biohacking, as you know, I started Biohackinggroup.com with one of the other founding team, Kyle Armour of NFT.com. And, we really delve into it.
Now, Jordan's kind of the same. I mean, I don't know anyone who was as hardcore keto as Jordan is when he discovered what he did for his brain. Happy to go into that later. But, one of the things that I was looking into was holotropic breathing, which was put on me by Wim Hof. I trained with Wim and his trainers in Iceland. And, one day, actually, I was exploring sort of the fringes of holotropic breathing through someone who probably shouldn't have been teaching it, to be honest. And, I passed out while upright and smashed my head against concrete.
Ben: So, you were doing Wim Hof S holotropic breathing while standing on a hard surface?
Andrew: That's exactly why this message should have been–
Andrew: Ill-advised, extremely ill-advised, just a catastrophe. And, I blacked out. When I woke up, the world was not the same place. And, I recently had a friend of mine say that he had a concussion and he just said to me, it's a very different world when you perceive it through the lens of this gray concussed sort of state. And so, I went all in. Then, with what intellect I had left, I went all-in in finding solutions.
Now, the interesting thing, Ben, is that not only did I find solutions to concussion, but I found solutions to optimize my brain and I found dysfunction in my brain, which was not even related to the concussion. So, while I was focused on improving my then bad mental state, I got to a point where I had sort of fixed it. But then, I was trying to optimize for more and more based on dysfunction that I had found that wasn't even related to the concussion.
Ben: Now, quick question. When you talk about finding dysfunction, I've done stories before on electroencephalography and this idea of using qEEG measurements to identify areas in the brain that need to be uptrained or downtrained so to speak for anything from ADD to ADHD, to better sleep onset, to distractibility, et cetera. I've done a couple of podcasts, for example, with Dr. Andrew Hill of Peak Brain in LA. And then, of course, there are folks like Dr. Daniel Amen who will do a spec scan or analyze a blood flow to the brain.
Now, when you say that you found brain dysfunction, were you doing a scan similar to one of those?
Andrew: Exactly. So, I went to Cognitive FX. I think it's in Utah. I don't know if you're aware of it, but they are–
Ben: I am. Well, go ahead and explain.
Andrew: Yeah. They're one of the top concussion clinics.
Now, it's interesting because when I went there, I spoke to them, I thought I still had some dysfunction with my brain. And, that was later confirmed. But, basically what I figured out with Cognitive FX was that there were certain parts of my brain that had sort of black on the scan, and thus were just not functioning in the same way, which they believed weren't related to the concussion. So, they started doing training around specific things. Very, very interesting activities; touching lights on a wall, or different types of coordination, or membranes exercises, et cetera, to improve those parts of my brain which were gray in the scan which may not have been related to the concussion.
Ben: By the way, Andrew, if I could jump in super quick, I should clarify that Cognitive FX, and I've sent several people their way ever since you told me about their existence that they're down in Provo, Utah, they actually don't do EEG or spec scan, they actually do something called FNCI, which stands for functional neuro cognitive imaging. And, that's like an fMRI of the brain. And so, they've got, which is a very complete scan, we hear about people, for example, with the health nucleus program, which is a really advanced anti-aging and longevity management program. They'll do full-body MRIs. And, what Cognitive FX does, it's a functional neuro cognitive imaging or an fMRI of the brain, which is a really, really cool way to look at a neurovascular health, the connection between the neurons and the blood in the brain.
Andrew: I was literally in an MRI doing math problems and [00:19:25] _____. And, while I was in an MRI, it was wild. I'd never experienced anything like that before. And then, after, they could tell me what parts of my brain were and were not functioning. And, I made the comment at the end that people should do this just generally. And, they said, “Yeah, they probably should because everyone has some dysfunction.” So, that was one of the things which gave me a springboard to get even. So, for anyone who's got a concussion or who's had one, analysis like his, while you're trying to analyze your concussion can also give you an idea of what else might be wrong with your brain that you can fix.
So, Jordan, sometimes says, “Hey, you're able to work 18 hours a day.” And, I'm literally at the cutting edge of thinking. It's because I've been able to basically get to this point where I am, I guess, aware of the parts of my brain, which are an issue. And, if you want to know what I did to solve that, that was really a big step.
Ben: Yeah, your whole protocol was absolutely crazy.
Tell people about what you did after you got that scan at Cognitive FX.
Andrew: I did so much, but I will tell you the things that really made a difference. I did tons, by the way. The NeurOptimal machine stay in a dark room using orange-tinted glasses, change my diet, ketone esters. I mean, the Vielight. I mean, you name it, I fucking tried it because I was so scared at the time, I was inches away from ending my own life because of the depression that had befallen me because of this concussion.
But, the things that made a massive difference, the biggest difference, so Cognitive FX, there is a device called the NeurOptimal machine, NeurOptimal, and you can't buy it, you have to go to a practitioner. That made an immediate difference. The float tanks were good. I read a book called “The Concussion Manual.” I think that they were good. I think that anything that allows you to be in a parasympathetic state is generally good. And, the float tanks definitely were one of those things. And then, I just made sure I had a very low inflammation diet. So, not too many carbs, not too much sugar. I just really kind of watched it. And then, after that, it was sleep and not thinking. So, a lot of people when they have a concussion try and go right back to work, I would definitely avoid doing that. Your brain is a muscle in some ways. If I hurt my bicep, I'm not going to use it the next day. The thing is the brain doesn't have pain receptors. so we can't tell you an instant pain. What I realized is that the way I feel it is via mood. And, I was a very, very moody back then.
And then, I would say final thing is probably the NuCalm device. Do you use that, Ben?
Ben: Yeah, I do. And, the NuCalm is it's a sound machine that includes some GABA stickers that just shifts the body very rapidly into a state of relaxation. I really like that one. I've been kind of going back and forth now between that and the BrainTap, which it's not a new device but it's newer in terms of my own protocol, it's a light sound stimulatory machine that does a really good job at almost very rapidly hypnotizing you into a certain state, whether it's alpha zone or delta brain waves, or even learning memory consolidation, more rapid sleep onset, et cetera. So, I kind of go back and forth between that and the NuCalm now. But, yeah, absolutely, I still use the NuCalm.
Andrew: Yeah. By the way, one thing I just remember. So, I did use the Vielight. It was good. Not as good as the NeurOptimal or the NuCalm for my concussion. But, one interesting thing for your listeners, anyone who's in New York, there's this–I tried a bunch of float tank locations. There's this one guy, it's just literally his apartment and it's called, his website, he's a bit of a weirdo but he's a savant true and true and blue on flotations. I think it's bluelightflotation.com or something. I'll give it to you after. But, he's just so pedantic about everything that goes into a float experience that the float tank itself is in a vacuum-sealed room. I mean, it's just crazy how much protocol this guy requires. And so, I would say that basically going to him if you've got issues is a good idea as well. Not all float tanks are created equal. There's a lot of other things I did. I mean, the list is almost endless.
Ben: Yeah. It's no secret that our metabolism is under attack, a staggering 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. Sugar is spiking our insulin. Caffeine is overstimulating us. And, our quality of life is declining due to obesity and chronic disease. We got to change the way we power our bodies. And now, there's a clean fuel that does just that. It's called Ketone IQ made by the folks at HVMN, which stands for Health Via Modern Nutrition. Should you have ever wondered what HVMN stands for.
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Well, I can't believe it's time, once again, for me to host this special little Spring Transformation Challenge I put on over at BenGreenfieldcoaching.com/Challenge. We're calling this one the Tribal Transformation Challenge because it's team and community focus with layers of accountability structured in to keep you on track and give you community support. You get a team of 10 to 15 people led by your coach. You get paired with an accountability buddy leadership opportunities like becoming a team captain if you fit the bill for that, weekly huddles to connect with your team, Q&A time with leading experts in the field to help you absorb the information presented each week. We're going to be deep diving into aspects of optimized living like nutrition, and fitness, and recovery, environment, sleep, community building, a whole lot more. And, my team and I have really put together a really great transformation challenge. A lot of bonding, huge quantum shift in your entire life; mind, body, and spirit.
The results of our last transformation challenge that happened in January were so astounding. People were getting better sleep, better energy, better weight loss, better relationships, tapping into old hobbies. We had one guy who lost over 20 pounds, weighs over and under 200 pounds.
For the first time in over 10 years, another gal started her new website and reignited her passion for editing and writing. These are the kinds of success stories that happened with the transformation challenges I put on because it's not just about six-pack abs and quadriceps, it's about your whole life getting better.
So, if you want to transform using all my principles, my biohacks, my tips, my tricks, my strategies, and my amazing team of coaches that I've trained along with a whole community of like-minded transformationalists, go to BenGreenfieldcoaching.com/Challenge to secure your spot. It's going to take place from April 25th through June 12. That's April 25th through June 12th. There's only 150 spots available on a first-come-first-serve basis. So, make sure you claim your seat at the table today.
I don't know if you recall our email exchange, but you had written everything down. I mean, in addition to what you talked about with the use of the NuerOptimal and the NuCalm, everything from the 10 mL of ketone esters you were using daily, the use of lion's mane combined with psilocybin for better neuronal connectivity, the hot–cold contrast, a little bit about the photobiomodulation, the use of the Vielight, you gave me the whole recipe for your pretty comprehensive brain-enhancing shake which included everything from C8 caprylic acid to chaga mushroom, to neuro shroom, to beets, and aminos, and matcha powder, et cetera.
So, what I'll do for folks who really want to take a deep dive into this protocol because I took a bunch of notes and then I added a lot of my own recommendations including my interview with the guy who wrote that “Concussion Repair Manual,” Dr. Dan Engle. If you're listening in right now, you're welcome, I'll put a link to this entire protocol because I have it on Google Docs. If you go to–BenGreenfieldfitness.com, I got to get that out of my vernacular, people. It's BenGreenfieldlife.com now, BenGreenfieldlife.com/NFTpodcast. I will link to that entire protocol that Andrew put together because I just think it's absolutely fantastic. So, you can grab it at BenGreenfieldlife.com/NFTpodcast.
And, one other thing related to this to a certain extent, Andrew, was as you were explaining this entire protocol that you put together, you mentioned that you began to run this biohacking group online, which I think is a Facebook group. Can you explain what that is and where that fits into the equation?
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, look, Jordan and I have always been really into optimizing our mind so that we can execute on building these projects. And, Kyle who is also part of the team and I were like, look, community sourcing these sorts of–yeah, because it's so hard to know what is actually working and what is not, so we decided to put a little group together called the Biohackinggroup or Biohackinggroup.com. And, it was just a Facebook group and it really exploded. And so, now, it's a pretty active group. We've made a lot of great friends through it and we kind of share tips and tricks that help us sort of use biohacking and use health to optimize not just our business life, but our wider life. And, that's kind of an interesting thing because I consider, for example, my relationship to Jordan, my health, my romantic relationships, and/or the general view of my life as a kind of more complete approach. And so, biohacking is a part of that but a very important part of it as health is. And, that's kind of the auspices and the sort of feel of that group.
Ben: Yeah, yeah.
Jordan, by the way, Andrew described you a few minutes ago. I don't know if you heard this. As a hardcore keto, what exactly is he talking about there?
Jordan: Yeah. So, it's funny because our worlds really collided. I used to be really overweight. I mean, just not a healthy guy. I'm already not on a big frame. I'm a 5 foot 5 on a good day height-wise. And, I'm from Buffalo, New York. I just kind of grew up on the classic American diet. I'm one of ten kids, three brothers, six sisters. And, my mom always just made one thing for dinner. I like to joke the reason I often get compliments, people are like, “Hey, you can pitch, you got a good sales pitch.” And, I'm like, “Yeah, that's because I always had to sell my brothers and sisters to convince my mom to make what I wanted to have for dinner,” which was kind of always like pasta or something really starchy. I gained a lot of weight. I don't think I ever really understood what nutrition was. I didn't really know what a carbohydrate was. And, I made this pretty rash life change. I left, didn't finish school. And, really before I was 20, I ended up moving to Budapest, Hungary, somewhat random. I heard there was cheap beer and beautiful women. It turns out that's true. But, leaving, I think, my American dietary lifestyle and going to a place with a lot less genetically modified food, much more of that whole farm to table culture, I quickly realized like, “Whoa, I'm eating a lot of packaged goods coming from the states.” I started eating a lot more produce, I learned what a whole foods diet could be. And then, I found this thing. I don't want to hype it up, it's called CrossFit. You probably heard of it. But, it was just high-intensity intervals.
Ben: Never heard of it. Nobody who does it ever talks about it. So, it's kind of a secret. It's veganism.
Jordan: Exactly. It's kind of a good secret. So, I don't want to hype it up or promote it, but what I liked about it was the first time that you kind of get. What CrossFit does so well is you finish a workout, you look an absolute idiot. I mean, there were women in this class squatting more than me. I had no leg strength, whatsoever, and then I ended up working up to squatting more than 2.5 times my body weight. And, in that process, it's all of these high fives, high fives. You kind of get that. They build community, Andrew's talking about biohacking community and coming together. I think CrossFit got that really great.
So, here's this gym that welcomed me in. It was called Reebok CrossFit Duna. If you're in Budapest, there's not that many CrossFit gyms, so this is an amazing one to drop in on. And, they're the only one in Budapest that had English-speaking classes. So, started working out, and then all of a sudden, I find Andrew. I think it was probably you who brought this to me. But, this whole notion of eating a high-fat diet started reading up on it. And yeah, I got really religious on it. I think I have three different devices to take my ketone levels. I do it while I travel. Actually, I have a rule when I travel now. When I'm on a flight, I use it as a fasting day. So, I fasted the entire way to actually did a 96-hour fast to fly to Amsterdam from New York while I was living in New York, gave a speech on Hedera and Blockchain and Cryptocurrency at a conference. Didn't eat anything while I was in Amsterdam, which was somewhat challenging because I did make it to one of those coffee shops and did smoke some of that stuff. And, I got super hungry but didn't eat and flew back to the states. And, I love how I feel with ketones in my body. I love how my brain operates. I have all of this mental clarity and focus. I don't think the diet is one size fits all for everyone, but for me and for my body type, I think I got rid of all of that inflammation. And, I generally feel healthier, which was new for me coming from buffalo eating chicken wings.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, totally. And, I mean, honestly, a big part of it is, of course, the elimination of the things that you would have been eating on a non-ketogenic, what sounds like a standard American buffalo wing diet. But, a big part of it is, of course, also the upregulation of ketone bodies. Personally, I've talked about this before on the podcast, I'm not as big a fan of the whole saturated fat coconut oil bomb half stick of butter in your coffee modern newfangled biohacked keto versus eating a decent amount of vegetables, avoiding carbs, fasting and staying physically active as a more natural way of attaining ketosis. But, whether you're doing one or the other, I think one of the most valuable tools that entire toolbox of feeling good based on high levels of circulating ketones is the use of these drinkable ketone esters. And, I know that Andrew knows about this because Andrew told me he was using them way back when he was dealing with the concussion. But, Jordan, do you experiment with those at all? I mean, because the reason I ask is I also will fast on long flight days except I do use quite a few servings of those ketone esters when I'm flying and traveling.
Jordan: I do. So, in full disclosure, I am an investor in HVMN.
Jordan: I love their products. Their new Ketone IQ was something that just gives you that feeling that would have otherwise taken me probably 12 hours into my fast to get. I kind of just get it right away. And, even if I have had a carb-heavy meal prior, listen, it doesn't taste great. If you've had ketone esters that taste great, definitely give me a recommendation. But, when you mix it with lemon juice and a carbonated drink, I love these sparkling seltzers. And, if you mix it in there, it goes down easy. And, I do experiment with them. I actually love this business. I think that it's super early for products like this. And, I'm excited to see how that company in particular.
Ben: Yeah. There's another company called Ketone Aid and they do gin and tonics and cocktails except instead of alcohol, they use this 1,3-butanediol, the same stuff that you'll find in Ketone IQ as an alternative to drinking cocktails.
Andrew: Do you know Frank?
Ben: Yeah, Frank Llosa.
Andrew: He's been supporting ketones since way before he was cool. And, yeah, he's a good friend of mine. He always sends me these sample products. And, you're right, the new products are actually pretty, pretty cool and interesting.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. He sends me quite a few. As a matter of fact, I probably have enough cans of ketone esters out in my garage to get the entire Chinese army shifted into a state of ketosis drinking his gin and tonics. But, I don't [00:39:07] _____. I slam five cans a day because he keeps sending me boxes of this stuff. It tastes great.
Andrew: Yeah, he always sends me too.
Ben: The only thing is that it metabolizes when you combine it with alcohol into something very similar to gamma hydroxybutyrate, GHB, the old, pardon the expression, but often known as the date rape drug. And so, my brother came over one night and he had a can of the gin and tonic ketone ester formula, which doesn't actually have gin or tonic in it, it's just ketone esters in sparkling solution made to taste like a gin and tonic. But then, he also had a glass of wine. And, within 15 minutes, he was folded over at the table half asleep. So yeah, you don't want to mix this stuff with alcohol but as an alternative to alcohol, it's great. I actually just had a stem cell surgery a couple of weeks ago. So, I've been avoiding alcohol. I'm a fan of the longevity-enhancing effects of microdosing with alcohol, glass of organic biodynamic wine each evening, or whatever. But, I've been totally avoiding it. And so, in the evenings, my wife pours the glass of wine. I pop open a can of these ketone esters and I'm good to go. I still get all the end of the day relaxing and socially lubricating effects of alcohol without actually having to drink alcohol. Not that I want to sound like a commercial for ketones, but it is interesting.
Andrew: That's crazy. So, you drink it before you go to bed or with dinner?
Ben: Well, two times a day I'll drink. I'll have a can with lunch if I plan on taking a post-lunch siesta because it just relaxes me. And then, I'll also have it with dinner, drinking it in the same way as you would with alcohol. And so, yeah, I haven't figured out a way to sneak into restaurants and slam one as a cocktail alternative when I'm at a steakhouse.
Andrew: I don't know if you've ever. So, I find ketone esters to be one hack that I used for ketosis. I subscribe to what you said, Ben, low carb. But, I found that I'm so good at doing low carb that I end up just going keto anyway because I found things that have really changed my life to be able to enjoy the taste of something that taste like carbs without having that. Sometimes it's stevia-based stuff like Lily's chocolates.
There's another thing I found more recently called Styrian pumpkin seed oil. It's the black form of pumpkin seed oil. And, have you ever heard of that, Ben, by any chance?
Ben: I've had the nigella, the black seed oil. It's not the pumpkin seed oil though. I get the stuff from Andreas Seed Oils that they do all these omega 3, 6, 7, and 9 rich oils that they use this cold expeller extraction for so they don't get oxidized or anything. So, they do a few black oils. But, I don't know if I've had a black pumpkin oil.
Andrew: Oh, it's insane. I mean it makes every single salad taste amazing.
Ben: No kidding.
Andrew: This pumpkin speed oil, I literally travel with it everywhere.
Jordan: He's not kidding. We were just in London together. I flew from Puerto Rico to London, met up with Andrew, and we had some meetings over there. And, this guy shows up not just with this pumpkin seed oil, but Andrew, you travel with an entire [00:42:12] _____.
Ben: Where do you get the pumpkin seed oil?
Andrew: Okay. Before I tell you and I will tell you, my source is the guy who created the [Jingba at Air1 00:42:21]. So, I hired him to basically show me what he knew. I mean, he does some private consults. I think his website is like the Jing master or let me just double check that. Yeah, I think it was the jingmaster.com, yeah. Yeah, he's pretty extreme in some respects I will say that before I send anyone to him. Just like everything else in health, you should do your due diligence, et cetera. But, he did show me this and a couple of other things which were game-changers. And, you can get some of it on Amazon. But, the really high-quality stuff you have to source from Austria and Europe. And, I just get it flown in. I don't remember the website, but I'll send it over to you. But, check it out on Amazon, it's Styrian pumpkin seed oil. Anyone who is low carb, that's the thing. I go to restaurants now. I ask for salad no dressing. And then, I just add my own dressing with a little bit of sea salt.
Andrew: Because dressing usually in America terms is the very definition of how you make a salad bad.
Ben: Well, that's how you make a salad tasty, unhealthy. I have a similar regimen. I travel with a Ziploc bag full of a really good salt in my fanny pack.
Andrew: Me too.
Ben: But, because I don't travel with a lot of liquids but usually whenever I get to where I'm going, I'll drop in local whole foods or even just the average grocery store will have a really good extra virgin olive oil, I'll pick that up. And, during my travels, during my trip–
Andrew: I used to do that exact same thing, except now it's pumpkin, it's Styrian pumpkin seed oil, black pumpkin seed oil. Yeah. So, you go check it out. Taste-wise and health-wise, it's extraordinary.
Ben: Might not be able to find at the 7-Eleven.
Okay. So, a couple other questions here. And then, I actually do want to talk about NFTs a little bit because I'm super curious about this. And, the fact that you guys own and run the URL, NFT.com, I think is very interesting. I'd love to hear what you're doing with that. But, besides the Styrian pumpkin seed oil, do you guys have any other? And, I know both you are somewhat familiar with my podcast, so maybe you could throw in a few things that you think would be kind of unique for my audience because otherwise, you'll be the billionth person who says something like, “Oh, I have a compressed feeding window.”
But, are there any other kind of real cool things that you guys have set up in your daily routine as pretty prolific biohackers, guys who are pretty tuned into this personal optimization space that are non-negotiables for you?
Andrew: So, maybe I'll start on that, Jordan. So, yes, [00:45:03] _____, yes raw, yes little meat, usually fish, smaller fish. These are all things that you know. I'll give you some of the things that I do which are interesting. So, firstly, I have a problem with waking up and having an overactive brain. So, I'll sleep for six hours. I'll wake up and I can't go back to sleep. I could work, but I just don't feel great. So, a couple of things that I do. I have different sleep stacks, so there are different products, so different CBD products and/or, what do you call, it magnesium products, et cetera. And, I can give you.
So, I never do the same one every day one after another because I find my body adapts. So, I will rotate them. None of them are pharmaceuticals, they're all sort of healthy Awakened Alchemy that sort of product range. So, I will make sure that I actively spend eight to nine hours. Even if I can't sleep, I'll force myself to be in a relaxed state. As busy as I am, I don't compromise on that because I find sleep to be infinitely important.
The second thing which your audience may not have heard before is I totally minimize downtime. What I mean by that is if I'm at the gym or, I don't go to whole foods anymore, my PA does, but if I'm walking anywhere, going anywhere, then I'll usually have headphones in. And, there's this hack with Audible which allows you to share the same Audible across an infinite number of devices. That is not a well-known fact, now it might be because it's going to be on your podcast.
Ben: Okay, wait. Say that one more time just so I understand.
Andrew: So, basically, I know people like you, Ben, who are self-optimized people and who are interested in similar things. And, what I do with those people is I invite them in, I haven't invited you, but you're more than welcome, into an Audible group and we just buy the books we want. And, that Audible group gets huge. So, the library of books I have to read is literally not just massive but is very well-curated because it's people like you and/or it's people like Jordan and/or other entrepreneurs I've met.
Ben: No kidding?
Ben: So, it's different than a lending library. You all–
Andrew: 100%. We all–
Jordan: Andrew, we're getting shut down right now because you're talking about it. I think this is the opposite of what Audible wants us doing. But, yeah, it's a great account.
Andrew: We're just sharing books. So–
Ben: That's amazing. And, that's a built-in native function of Audible?
Jordan: I think we're all sharing the same username and password, aren't we?
Andrew: That's right. We are all sharing the same username and password. I don't ask–
Ben: Oh, I see. Okay. Alright. But, isn't the username and password that you'd use to log into Audible the same as you would use to log into Amazon, and thus, you're sharing your amazon account information?
Andrew: That's the thing. No. Maybe we have a legacy account, I don't know, but it doesn't have to be. No. Ours is a different login.
Jordan: They're not fully integrated after the Amazon acquisition.
Jordan: It's still from the [00:48:25] _____.
Andrew: But, here's the thing, over the course of a year, it made a little difference. Over the course of two, three years, it's made a lot of difference. Over the course of five to seven years, which is how long I've been doing it, I honestly feel I've lived a different life. There's just so much downtime in life and people are like, how do you execute them so much? It's just cumulative wisdom that I think I've gained from just optimizing that downtime. And, it's really nothing and I'll be waiting together for plane and I'll just put it on. And, it's super interesting now. People get really stressed out about not being able to listen to everything because you're distracted sometimes. But dude, there's just way too much information in the world to consume anyway. So, even if I were to put those headphones in and consume 20% of what I gather in that time, that 20% when compounded over time is going to make an absolute world of difference. So, I'm not so focused on listening to everything or absorbing everything, I'm more focused on having the aha moments and also letting my subconscious draw in these ounces of wisdom that I get from your listeners.
Ben: I love that. And, I'm the same, I will whip out my laptop when I've got five minutes before. I got to be boarding the flight and write 150 words. I will listen to two minutes of an audio book when I'm walking up the ramp out of an airplane. I will, literally as I'm making my smoothie hammer out a quarter of a podcast at 4x speed. So, I'm kind of the same way not in a stressed out FOMO, oh, I got to absorb all the information the world has to offer sort of way, but rather in the sort of way that dictates that though I do want to be present and mindful, I am constantly analyzing my day to identify spots where I can absorb information that allows me to be more intelligent in a way that I can then turn around and present that information to my audience or the people I know in a helpful manner. And really, I mean, by the end of the day, by snagging two minutes here and 15 minutes there and 30 seconds here, you can get through a lot. I mean, I get through a good three to five books a week and a whole lot more via audio that way, but it's literally in very, very small chunks. And, once you train your brain to do that and once you train your brain too, once you press stop on something to reassociate and pick it up away, it seems like it's a muscle that can be trained.
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's been a game-changer for me. My mentor put me on to it. I figured out that Audible hack, but my mentor put me on to downtime optimization. And, it's made a huge, huge difference.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, downtime optimization. I like how we've got a fancy title for it.
Jordan, you have any kind of non-negotiables for you that are a part of your day similar to Andrew that you think would be helpful to people?
Jordan: Yeah. Ben, I think a lot of your audience you probably have some other somewhat stressed-out entrepreneurs. And, I think so much of my health optimization has been. And, I always made the fool's choice of sacrificing my health for wealth. I was so obsessed with building myself up, making that first million, and having my first exit. And actually, I gained most of my weight while building my first startup. And, it wasn't until selling that startup that I decided to look at myself in the mirror and say, “Whoa, I made a crazy foolish tradeoff here. I have all of this liquidity in health, but if I keep going down this path, I think I'm making some pretty dangerous life choices.”
So, for me, it's an oldie but a goodie, it's a great book, kind of, not kind of, it really did change my life, it's called “Eat That Frog!” by Brian Tracy, which is all of these suggested tips on how to stop procrastinating. And, for me, I was putting off doing the most important yet most difficult thing for me, which is someone that didn't come from a fitness background definitely didn't have the genetics or at least the excuse that I gave myself and that had all of these limiting beliefs about my own body and my own ability to perform. The hardest thing for me to conquer every single day was to just get anchored and get a workout in.
So, today, I woke up at 4:45, I wake up every day at 4:45 the latest.
Ben: Alarm or no?
Jordan: No. So, I have the Whoop 4.0. Make sure you have the Whoop 4.0 because the older versions of the Whoop I don't think were great. And, Whoop is fantastic especially now that they have the Apple Health integration. My biggest complaint with Whoop was it didn't integrate in Apple Health. But, why I went to the Whoop is I didn't like the Apple watch. I've got kids and I've got a five-year-old that literally would mimic me checking my emails on my Apple watch. He would pretend like he had a watch on and I'm like, “Whoa, whoa, my son is copying what I'm doing.” And, I really didn't like how I was with an Apple watch. Too many notifications. And, yes, I know, for those listening, I know you can turn them off, I know you can silence them, but I didn't like having a computer on my wrist, didn't feel good about it.
So, the Whoop doesn't have a screen, all goes to your phone, and it's got this new vibrating alarm clock. So, I don't have to wake up. My wife is sleeping next to me and I can get up. So, that's how I wake myself in the morning.
Ben: Yeah. And, by the way, Jordan, that idea of a haptic alarm clock, it's brilliant. But, both my sons and I, we don't use a Whoop, and it's primarily just because I got on the Oura bandwagon and I love the Whoop but it's like, “I'm not going to wear a ring and a wristband.” So, I wear the Oura, but I have one of these Apollo ankle bands. Both my sons do as well and we've programmed them to go into unwind, relax, and then sleep mode. So, unwind and relax around 8:45, and then it shifts into sleep mode at 9:30, and then it shifts into wakefulness mode at 6:15. So, that means that even though I don't set an alarm and I naturally get up typically sometime between about 4:30 and 5:30, if for some reason my lazy ass is still in bed at 6:15, that thing starts vibrating and just rips me out of bed. So, yeah, but it won't wake my wife up if she wants to sleep. And, this haptic sensation traveling up the long bone of my leg is graded. I mean, I think it's better than a sunrise alarm clock almost.
Jordan: It's much better. I don't have that anxious feeling of like I just slept through an exam when the alarm goes off and gets me out of bed. And then, the hardest thing for me is always that workout. So, I think it was really hard for me to get into that routine.
The other thing that I do and I can't stress it enough about mental health, my first startup no one knew who we were. I was totally building in private. I bootstrapped it. No venture capital and sold it. And, Hedera, much more public. When you talk about cryptocurrency and we're about to talk about it, I can feel it, but crypto is so religious. Everyone's religious about bitcoin and everyone's religious about HBAR. Andrew and I are part of the founding team of HBAR. And, these HBARbarians, if we do something positive, they're happy. If we do something negative that they don't like, they chew you out. And, I needed some. I really needed to prioritize my mental health, so I started seeing this performance coach who also is a doctor. He's a psychologist. And, honestly, two sessions a week has gotten me over those mental hurdles, gets me, make sure that I'm anchored, and know why am I waking up at 4:45, why am I still building even with multiple exits, even with success. I'm very fortunate to be at this level where I've attained that financial freedom, Andrew as well. But, what continues to drive you, I think, is so important to know what those answers are.
So, my two things are have someone to talk to, a medical professional that can help diagnose me, keep me hungry, can help tell me why, is this behavior self-sabotage or can help me correct that, and just getting up in the morning. That 4:45 wake-up just anchors me. I can start my day, react proactive instead of reactive because from 8:30, a CEO of a publicly traded company, my phone starts blowing up with fires that I got to start putting out. In fact, I don't even like to call myself CEO, I'm a firefighter. I put out fires all day long. So, yeah, those are my two things.
Ben: So, you guys are obviously optimized. I feel like we could probably talk about your respective protocols until we're blue in the face. And, I would encourage you because you already mentioned a few things that you could send over to me that I could feature in the shownotes, which are going to be at BenGreenfieldfitness.com, BenGreenfieldlife.com. There I go again. BenGreenfieldlife.com/NFT podcast. I'm going to link to anything that you guys send me. So, if you guys write out anything else about your daily routine, about some other non-negotiables for you, you're so plugged in that I feel we could probably talk about this stuff forever. And so, send over anything and everything and I'll feature it in the shownotes.
But, I would be remiss not to ask you about this idea of NFT.com. Now, I've talked about NFTs before. I mean, shameless plug, I launched an NFT for my cookbook. I have 12 recipe cards that unlock a private cooking class with me this year. My son has an NFT collection of his art. Same thing, people get a little online art creation class with him. I'm really wanting to do my next book or include for my next book a series of limited-edition versions of my book “Endure” and possibly even give some copyright ownership to people who own that NFT. So, I'm on board with NFTs and the idea of them.
But, what exactly is NFT.com? And, how is that any different than some, there's a lot of marketplaces out there like OpenSea, for example, is probably the most popular and there are others. But, what exactly is NFT.com and the idea behind that?
Jordan: Andrew, maybe I'll start on this.
Andrew: Yup, go ahead.
Jordan: And, I'll try to build the bridge from just our previous conversation into this one because it's an important one. There's so much, you're right Ben, that we could just talk about in terms of just health optimization. And, I like to think of life as a great juggling act. You've got health optimization, you've got wealth optimizations, and wealth hacking, and you've got relationships and everything else. And, very few people can juggle really well, but those that can are just masters at it. I think the overlap between the biohacking community and the crypto currency community is really those that are biohackers are obsessed with just how do you hack and optimize your health so you can operate at peak performance. And, if you can apply that same rigor, that same attention to detail to your body, you can certainly do it to your finances and your financial freedom. And, I think some of the earliest adopters of crypto, that's true for them. If you look at just at its core, bitcoin and cryptocurrency, now NFTs, the whole notion of being able to have 24/7/365 control over your assets is pretty remarkable. I mean, literally 24/7/365 on a Saturday at noon, you can send the equivalent of a wire transfer, a transaction through a cryptocurrency wallet to someone on the opposite side of the planet. If you try to go to your bank right now whether you're using Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, or a European Bank, standard chartered over in Europe, you cannot go and withdraw your entire balance in cash. You may think you can, but you just cannot. They're not going to allow you to do it. Try it. I encourage you to.
If you've got over $30,000 in the account, either they don't have the cash on hand, they're going to want a reason for why you're making the withdrawal. You typically have to call in advance. You don't have access to your funds. You're probably limited in how much money you can send via wire transfer on a daily basis or how much you can withdraw from the ATM machine. So, crypto is a pretty revolutionary innovation, and that if you have a public key and private key on a blockchain like the Bitcoin blockchain, or the Ethereum blockchain, or the Hedera Hashgraph blockchain, you have access to your money around the clock. If you have access to your money around the clock, that is the founding primitive of the innovation. There's so many other things you can do on top of that. So, we've seen a whole world of decentralized finance forum where there's yield opportunities, better yields than what you get in the checking account. We've seen ways to capitalize businesses. There are literally startups. I just invested in a startup. The company didn't want me to invest in them with cash, they didn't want a wire transfer, they wanted me to send USDC on the blockchain, and I did, pretty phenomenal. I mean, the company wants, the engineers want to be paid in it, it's a software business. They want to receive that.
And, a lot of companies in 2016 and 2017 capitalized that way. We capitalized Hedera Hashgraph, Andrew and I, we raised $124 million at a $6 billion valuation. Largely, 80 million of that was in bitcoin to fund the launch of Hedera Hashgraph. So, it became a mechanism for funding new businesses.
And now, when we look at the trend where we are in this trend because it is still somewhat early, you probably hear a lot of people try to talk about where we are on this timeline, we're probably in the late '90s if you think about it or try to compare it to the dot-com boom in terms of adoption, in terms of number of user accounts on the network. But, if you look at the trend, we, as humans objectively, are spending more time than ever digitally connected online. And, it seems to reason that if we're spending so much of this time, whether you're walking down the street in a metaverse environment like Roblox, or World of Warcraft, or Runescape, or whatever your game is, or whatever you're doing online, we've already validated that people are willing to spend real-world money in the gamer community, it's called the RWT, real-world trading. People are willing to spend real money on characters, on avatars, on swords, hicks, on shields, on games–
Ben: Upgrade their powers.
Jordan: Exactly. Upgrade their powers.
NFTs are really emblematic of digital property rights. They're digital property right protection mechanisms that are stored on a decentralized ledger. That's what another way of calling a blockchain, distributed ledger technology, or an immutable ledger, or decentralized ledger, all other ways of describing these blockchains. But, we can store property rights that says, “Ben owns this piece of land in Roblox” or “Ben owns this piece of land in Decentraland” or an Axie Infinity, or in the Sandbox. And, Andrew owns this shield and Jordan owns this shirt in the game. And, tremendous remarkable things are happening. Things that people are bulking at. Someone just paid $4,000 for a digital version of a Gucci bag in the game Roblox. Now, fun fact that actually wasn't an NFT, but it's emblematic of what an NFT could be used for which is someone is spending so much of their time walking down the street or the equivalent of the street or the wilderness or whatever it is in Roblox. I don't play Roblox. What your avatar says about you in the real world.
Ben, you walk around in a fanny pack, which I think is super cool. Others may think it's funny. But, how we dress, what we do says something about us. And, it's a statement that you're making. And, the same is true for the digital versions of ourselves. What our Twitter feed looks like, what your Instagram grid looks like, what your TikTok grid looks like, what your character in a game looks like. And, NFTs are, again, just ways for us to assign the rights to the various different individuals there. So, it's a very powerful technology, it's being used in a very interesting way. We've got Bored Apes. Andrew has quickly become one of the more prolific collectors in the world. He's got some multimillion-dollar NFTs and are arguably one of the best collections in the world. Just really some of the original NFTs. And again, just credit to him for being early to it.
Ben: Andrew doesn't own one of my Boundless Cookbook NFTs. I'm just saying. Those are highly valuable. If you don't have an NFT that teaches you how to make homemade carrot fries, then really, those pretty little eight pixels that you have are not that valuable. And, look, guys, I should note by the way. Don't laugh. I have close to zero interest in the metaverse aside from education. I am actually upgrading my office currently to be able to put on VR headset and present to people in a far more dynamic and rich way where they can walk around a room, they can interact with my presentation, they can be there with other people in the room, they can pick things up, they can have some haptic sensation and some light and sound sensation that goes way above and beyond what they would be able to get via something like Zoom presentation by me. But, I don't have a lot of interest in buying swords, and upgrading powers, and owning some type of virtual real estate or anything like that. But, I actually really do like as a guy who likes to dink around with singing and songwriting. I love the idea of artists being able to release NFTs related to their music that are literally digital sound art that translates to things like concert tickets or allows an artist to get a higher royalty for a song that they've produced, or a single, or an album without having to go through a music production company or the same thing with something like real estate. I think I briefly mentioned this to you, guys. I'm actually moving to Idaho. I'm going to be getting rid of my Spokane, Washington property. And, I'm considering as one of the possible options that I have on the table of literally listing it as an NFT where people can own a piece of this real estate and have access to it as around the year retreat center or timeshare.
And, I also love the idea of having things like the book project that I talked about. You don't just buy a book but you own a book. You can share with others kind of, you, guys do with Audible. You can have the copyright access to that book to be able to use it, almost like Creative Commons, and other places. And then, you can even, by owning that NFT version of the book, unlock things like a book signing party with me or private Q&A with me, things like that.
I like the utility that crosses over into the real world that essentially uses NFTs in their smart contract function if that makes sense.
Andrew: Yeah, I totally agree. The fact that we're putting artists in control now more because we're giving them an immutable record to assign some sort of value to, whether it'd be the first time that they had created some sort of digital asset or as the technology evolves, maybe an evolving entry. There's so many things that you could do with it. But, the fact is that we are allowing them to monetize and to sustain themselves. And, you Ben, you're somewhat of an artist as well, and that's why you're finding benefit from this because you're able to express your art and access as well via NFT.
So, we are at the first inning of NFTs. It's a new technological frontier. There are things that I've looked at that are, for example, NFTs that dynamically change in adaptation to the real world via interaction with these things we call Oracles. And, all sorts of other sort of crazy potential implications in future. And, honestly, we're at a point in time where very few people have found out about them. So, I just feel the cutting edge is yet to come and the opportunity to get in early is definitely still there. NFTs only blew up in 2021. Yes, I was buying them in 2017, but it was me buying bitcoin in 2011. People were like, “That's ridiculous.” And now, is sort of time for the digital renaissance.
And, that brings me nicely to kind of NFT.com. What a domain to own. I mean, Crypto.com, Blockchain.com, Bitcoin.com, they're all marquee pieces of this new digital universe, this Web3 metaverse that we are trampling headfirst towards. And, NFT.com is just by virtue of the domain, I mean, we've got near 100,000 emails over 25,000 people in our Discord without really even having tried that much. And, forget the phenomenal team of founders who have built unicorns before and all the founding team that joined us from Hedera, and for me from Reserve as well. But, what makes us different from OpenSea and the other competitors is a couple of things. But, besides from the things I just mentioned, this is going to be a community-controlled ecosystem.
So, gone are the days. We don't have VCs. We don't have insider investors. I mean, we played that game before in Silicon Valley. And, honestly, Ben, it can be a really ugly game and it helps certain people win but it doesn't help the community, it doesn't help the people who use and who are the real value behind this win. These marketplaces reward the shareholders and the insiders. And, that's not what we wanted to create.
So, on that note as well, final point of differentiation I'll mention is that, we are focused on this thing called Genesis key. And, we're going to be launching 10,000 Genesis keys who will be the founding members of our community. Why? Because we wanted these people to govern the way that the potential unicorn of the NFT world. Because of the domain, we wanted the governance to be very community-driven and very community-centric. Not only that, but the foundation of this is going to be the profiles upon NFT.com. so, NFT.com/Ben or NFT.com/Jordan. And, these profiles will be NFTs in and of themselves.
Andrew: The ownership which is governed on the blockchain. So, if you've got Instagram.com/BenGreenfieldlife, then Instagram could take that off you at any point in time. In fact, they did take Instagram.com/Metaverse away from an Australian lady, I believe, and it was in the news. But, who cares, it's theirs. That's very different for us. We're giving the people the base ownership of the basic unit that creates value within this, which is your participation in your profiles.
Jordan, do you have anything to add to that?
Jordan: Yeah, I would say, Ben, I think it's really important for everyone to understand the founders of the internet never intended for the internet to be the way it is today. In fact, many of them have even publicly stated like, “Hey, I'm sorry, it was not supposed to be like this.” And, the reason for that is they were all well-intentioned people. We wanted to create this information superhighway, but in a well-intentioned effort to keep everything free. We've become productized. We've exchanged the right for free social networking talking to our old friends, exchange the right to free Google searches, or free just web searches in general, and free messaging. We've opted to give over our data. And, if you actually look at what has happened, data has become the oil of this digital economy. It's literally the oil of the internet. When you break it down, we have quite literally handed over our most valuable asset, our personal identifying information to what has become several tech conglomerates that have monetized that. When you build a following on Instagram or on Twitter, you're quite literally building a mansion on Mark Zuckerberg's land or on Jack Dorsey's land. And, what Web3 offers us the opportunity to do is quite literally re-architect the way new platforms are built. NFT.com is really among the first of those platforms. As Andrew described, you're going to be able to come to NFT.com and literally own NFT.com/Ben or Ben Greenfield Life or whatever handle you want and mint that as an NFT.
Now, that profile is quite literally your gallery or your storefront or your decentralized identity on the blockchain. And, we're really excited for the users. I like to joke. I'm quite literally not the CEO of NFT.com nor is Andrew, we're the evangelists, we're the founders of it. Our users are in control. We're going to be governed by a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization. I really do think that we now have the technology. And, listen, remember the internet in the early days, dial-up, connecting to it was a very poor user experience, that's very much true for blockchains and has been true in the very early days of blockchain. It's getting much better. And, as that user experience improves, I really do think we're going to start to see a shift how the users interact with the platforms that they do.
Ben: Okay. So, I'm going to repeat this back to you just so I fully understand. NFT.com is basically something that's going to be very, very similar to this whole idea of decentralization, a community governed portal where people who actually are part of NFT.com can do something like mint or for people aren't familiar with that term just basically create known your own profile. Let's say you alluded to NFT.com/BenGreenfield, and there, I can do things like sell my arts, feature NFT arts, or music, or anything else in the NFT category, and the real estate that I own including trading and buying NFTs as well. And basically, it will not only be that but a place where people can learn about NFTs via content and be connected to other creators and collectors of NFTs, but it's all centrally governed or not centrally governed but decentralized and community governed because it's a decentralized autonomous organization where basically all of the people who are part of NFT.com were the owners, and the profile that we've minted, we have full control over. Nobody can ever take that away from us or dictate what we can or cannot put onto it aside from I suppose the governance of the people who are part of the DAO itself. Correct?
Andrew: Yes. So, the only addition I would say to that is that these profiles and the Genesis keys which can create the profiles initially form the foundation of an NFT marketplace and a roadmap, which hopefully in accordance to the DAO will form also one day the foundation of a Web3 social experience. Whether that's a social network or something else, that is going to come down to the DAO and going to come down to the people who execute. But, yes, this is a marquee domain, which will form the basis of the ecosystem starting with the profiles, then going to a marketplace. Ideally a Web3 social experience after that. What we see it really as is the birth of an ecosystem of NFTs of this new technological trend that is governed and controlled by the community.
Ben: So, can anybody just go to NFT.com right now where they're listening and start an account or profile? How exactly does it work?
Jordan: Yeah. So, this is the most important consideration when you're launching anything. It's not just a Web3 project, but it was also a Web2 project. Let's go back to the early days of Gmail. Remember Gmail? Ben, you're old enough to remember Gmail. You couldn't get a Gmail account until someone you knew gave you an invite. That's how Gmail grew. Clubhouse was no different–
Ben: Same as Facebook. I literally remember when Facebook was just for the people at Harvard and I was at University of Idaho and I was jealous because I didn't have a Facebook account.
Jordan: Exactly. Great example, Harvard.edu email addresses were the only ones that could get in until they went to Stanford and everywhere else. Clubhouse, no different, you had to know somebody. This is a really big vision. Because it needs to be community-run, you have to somehow invite the community to come in and open up the kimono for the community.
So, we came up with this really cool concept, it's called the Genesis key, and there's 10,000 genesis keys. And basically, Genesis keyholders become the founders, the co-founders of the NFT.com community but more importantly literally this Genesis key, it's why it's called a key, it unlocks the value of the NFT.com ecosystem. It enables you if you really want NFT.com/Andrew or Ben or Jordan, you need a Genesis key. And, the Genesis keyholders are the first to mint. Quite literally, a Genesis key comes with two mints. You can mint right after you get your Genesis key, whatever two profiles you want. You can keep one for yourself and sell one. You could sell both of them. We actually are the first decentralized platform to encourage or first platform in general to encourage speculation among the handles on our site, which unfortunately is a clear violation of Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn's terms of service. They don't allow it even though a black market is formed around them. But, we encourage it. We encourage you to go sell your NFT.com/Ben.
Ben: You could even trade or sell your own profile.
Jordan: Exactly. Because the profile is yours.
Andrew: You're into NFT, so of course. Yup.
Jordan: Yeah, it's an NFT, so it's in your wallet. If you want to go sell it, go sell it. It does belong to you. And, I think that's just such an important consideration.
Ben: Right. So, you could even have NFT.com/whatever like keto recipes and just load that thing up, turn it into a great hub for keto recipes.
Ben: Utility to it. Wow, that's pretty cool.
Jordan: Exactly. So, the way you start all of this, the start of the user journey is these Genesis keys.
Now, if you have too many initial users, it doesn't really incentivize community building, it doesn't incentivize participation. There's too many people, you're not going to show up to vote, you're not going to show up to help out. And, if it's too small, also it won't have the right impact. So, 10,000 is somewhat symbolic and we did want to pay homage to these amazing NFT projects that have come before us. But admittedly, it's the right number of people to really form a community to submit proposals. You can actually shape NFT.com with a Genesis key. You can submit a proposal and say, “Hey, I think we should add these features to the platform,” “Hey, I think we should integrate this blockchain, I really like it,” “Hey, we should do an in-person event where a Genesis key is needed to come to the event.”
Ben: Oh, wow.
Jordan: All of that is really going to be community-led, community-governed. And, I think that's the future of internet platforms in general. What if we, as Facebook users, had somewhat of a voice? Facebook makes $15 per user per quarter, $60 per user per year, but we don't see that back. Do you get $60 in value and talking to your old high school friends? I don't know. Maybe some people like yourself, Ben, who have built a business on it. But, largely for a lot of these platforms, we've been disenfranchised, we the creators, we people adding value to these ecosystems. So, the other thing of note really just when it comes to NFT.com is our model is quite different. Andrew and I are not taking a fee in the marketplace. That fee really belongs to our DAO, it belongs to the community. And, the community can direct even the proceeds of that to reinvest it in the ecosystem to say, “Hey, we should do artist grants for people who are looking to do NFT creation, we should do grants for students to educate them about NFTs and how they can be used.” And, I think that's what excites me the most is it's somewhat of an experiment, but I'm very confident that user experience of using a Web3 platform is going to be far greater, long term to that of using a centralized platform like Facebook.
Ben: Yeah. So, if people did want to get one of these Genesis keys, what do they do?
Jordan: Yeah. Great question. You go to NFT.com right now, a shameless plug, Whitelist.NFT.com or just go to NFT.com. You can't screw it up. It's N-F-T.com and you just click the button that says Join the Whitelist. You need two things to join the Whitelist. You need an email address and an Ethereum address. If you don't have an Ethereum address, you can download a pretty great wallet. I've got no bias here, it's just objectively one of the better wallets on the Ethereum blockchain called MetaMask. Download it. You can spin up a new Ethereum account. You can actually literally buy ETH in the wallet with a credit card through one of their payment partners. So, that's how you get a wallet. You will need ETH to join the Whitelist.
And, what we're doing is an auction, Ben. It's the fairest way to do it. I didn't think that I should pick the price of a Genesis key. Andrew agree that we shouldn't be the ones deciding it. We really wanted the community to decide. So, this is actually pretty exciting. We're going to do a Whitelist auction. It's going to happen in the next couple weeks definitely after you publish this podcast.
Jordan: But, it'll happen in the next couple weeks. So, your listeners will be able to get some alpha here and still join the Whitelist. And, you just submit a bid. It's a blind bid. 3,000 people will win a Genesis key in that auction of the 10,000. And, the fairest way of doing that is we're actually taking all the bids that are submitted. Let's say 10,000 bids come in or 20,000 bids come in, there's only 3,000 keys. We rank the bids from highest to lowest. Of the top 3,000 bids, the top 3,000 bids will all get keys but they actually pay the 3,000 in first bid price. So, everyone will end up paying less than what they did, which is pretty important. And, everyone pays the same price regardless of what their bid is as long as they were in the top 3,000. We thought that would be the fairest mechanism to get the first keys out.
Now, that's just the Whitelist. Immediately after the Whitelist, the remaining keys will be sold in a public sale. The public sale is the median of the 3,000. So, that 1,500 bid, that becomes the sale price. So, that'll definitely be more than what the people in the Whitelist pay. And, what happens then is you've got 10,000 key holders in a decentralized community helping make decisions for what could become one of the next great internet tech platforms. And, those Gen key holders are kind of Mark Zuckerberg's, decentralized Mark Zuckerberg.
Andrew: I mean, look, we've got a Crypto.com stadium, we've got an FTX.com stadium. Wouldn't it be cool to have a NFT.com stadium that was actually controlled by the community? That's what we were thinking. We've built unicoins before, but nothing like this. And, the domain itself, NFT.com is cool enough, is marquee enough for us to pledge it to something that is community-centric not that is venture capital centric, for example. And, that's why there aren't VCs in this realm. This is really, for us, a marquee sort of, what do you call it, it's the important legacy opportunity for us.
Ben: Yeah. Well, cool guys. Well, I'll tell you what, I don't want this podcast on biohacking crypto to turn into one giant commercial for NFT.com. But, what I'll do is I will link if you go to BenGreenfieldlife.com/NFTpodcast. I'll put some resources over there. And, like I mentioned, Andrew and Jordan will send me some of the other cool little things that they're up to as well. But yeah, if you guys want to get one of these Genesis keys, I'm going to get one from Jordan and Andrew, and I just think it's super cool. And, I'm kind of a dummy with all this stuff. So, if I can do it and you're listening in, you can wrap your head around it too. I read a little bit about this stuff every day and I'm slowly learning. And, gosh, I've been kind of dollar-cost averaging a little bit here and there in the crypto for about eight years. And, I'm no whale, and I'm no crypto catalyst, and I'm no blockchain evangelist like these guys are, but it is a cool new frontier. And, as we move away from, at least I think I will, more and more from fiat currency, I think these are the type of areas where you want to consider putting more of your energy and investments.
And guys, I did want to ask you too. But, before I let you go, obviously when you're launching something like this, you're working busy and you might even be working overtime, maybe sleeping less, I don't know.
But, you shared with me some of your biohacks already. But, what I want to know a little bit about if maybe both of you can each share top thing that you do, whether smart drug, or nootropic, or lifestyle modification, or something like that that you think is kind of a cool little secret tip, maybe you've been keeping it to yourself, I don't know, but as a way for you to really get good energy and productivity when you just got to bang through a long workday. What's your go-to?
Andrew: I have been listening to these entrepreneurial podcasts. Not yours, yours is more health. But, these people who say all this stuff about don't sleep, blah, blah, blah, I always prioritize sleep, diet, and exercise. And, those things I know they're the foundations, but it's such BS, man, when people are like, “Oh, don't sleep or sleep less.” I mean, yes, on occasion, [01:27:02] _____. That's it. But, I operate at 110% when I sleep eight hours. I operate at 90%, that 20% is all the difference. So, I would say those three things. If you want to cheat code, it's the NuCalm device. When I'm crashing in the afternoon, NuCalm for 20 minutes or whatever, the other device, you said that probably works as well.
Ben: Yeah, the BrainTap.
Andrew: BrainTap, yup. And then, I'm literally about to do it after this. I got another talk after this. I'm like, “Man, that was a hardcore session with you guys.” I'm just going to go NuCalm and then in 20 minutes, I'll be fresh as before the podcast.
Ben: Yeah. Alright. Well, I'm sorry for exhausting you, Andrew.
How about you, Jordan? What's your go-to? Giant ass piece of nicotine gum or what is it?
Jordan: It's funny. We have nicotine spray in the office. And, I do take a hit of it every now and then. I definitely think we got that. It was either from the biohacking group or from you, Ben. But, we do have the nicotine spray. It's exactly what Andrew said but more importantly, I do two things. We have a rebounder as well, change your physiology, change your state, do 10 minutes on the rebounder, just a little trampoline in the office, just jump up and down. Get all that negativity out. Change my breathing. Get my heart rate accelerated. We got a ping pong table in. If I'm in a really bad rut, get a quick game of ping pong in. But, the other thing, I got to just tell you, and this has been such a difference-maker for me, I am so obsessed with where we're going that I really do forget how far we've come. I'm so obsessed with like, “Oh, my god, we have all of this left to do to get the product launched, to get the Genesis keys ready, to get the marketplace ready, to really launch this thing. Make sure it's pixel perfect and all of that.” And, you forget to be grateful, you forget to give your thanks. If you're spirituals, for those listening, it's like, “Don't forget to pray.” I think it's really important to just be thankful. So, I do a five-minute gratitude journal. That grounds me a lot. I feel totally different when I just anchor on three things I'm grateful for. I do some very serious intention setting.
I use this app called the 5-Minute Journal. It's pretty great. It's all set up for you. You can upload a picture just to kind of remind you of that day. Gratitude. Three things you want to accomplish that day. And then, you write some affirmations. I think that inner whether it's the inner bitch, that negativity, the voice that talks to us just kind of taming that and writing down just some words of positivity. Man, I do that daily. I feel so different. If I miss a day, I actually do feel worse. So, those are my little tidbits. I don't know where I would be without gratitude, a little bit of fitness, and of course some of that nicotine spray.
Ben: I dig it. You can do a little nicotine spray and then write down that you're grateful for it.
You guys, I'm serious. If you have more resources, like I mentioned, I'm going to link to Andrew's concussion protocol and to this NFT.com site where people can get their Genesis keys for the next couple of weeks, this Biohackinggroup.com. But, anything you guys want to send over to me, other little tips that you have because I just love what you're up to, and I love talking to people who are kind of on the pointy edge of a lot of this stuff, send it on over.
And, for those of you listening in, if you go to BenGreenfieldlife.com/NFTpodcast, I will totally put some pretty comprehensive shownotes together for you. And so, Andrew, Jordan, I want to thank you guys for coming on the show today and sharing this with us.
Jordan: Thanks for having us.
Andrew: Thanks a lot, Ben, really appreciate it.
Well, folks, my new book “Endure” is flying off the shelves. I've talked to a bunch of people already who have expressed to me that it really is something that's been helping them like helping them deal with temptations, and struggles, and taking care of their spirit, and everything from their prayer time to their devotions, to their relationships. I mean, the book covers everything for men, porn, and for couple's sex and polyamory, for people who are trying to build a spiritual fitness, how to put on your spiritual armor, all about my own faith, my own journey. I wrote this book as a sequel to my book “Fit Soul.” And, it's out now. It's ready for order. It's called “Endure.” And, you can get it at GetEndure.com, GetEndure.com. And, we're going to give you an instantly downloadable e-book with the first three chapters of Endure. And, big discount on the journal that I use each day with my family to do our Spiritual Disciplines Journaling. So, all of that is available right now at GetEndure.com. So, check it out.
More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot.
21 April 2022
Strap yourself in for a wild ride.
While both of my guests on today's are nitty-gritty biohackers, they also know health is about more than just finding the latest hacks. So in this podcast episode, while we certainly cover the latest and greatest in health and fitness, we also get into how wealth and relationships have helped these two enhance their overall life.
Andrew Masanto is a serial entrepreneur and investor who also owns Biohackinggroup.com. Most recently active in Blockchain, Andrew was the Founding CMO of Reserve (backed by Peter Thiel, Coinbase, and others, currently at $1b+ valuation) and Founding CMO of Hedera Hashgraph (backed by Google, IBM, Boeing, etc., with a fully diluted $10b+ valuation cryptocurrency). Andrew experienced his early successes (pre-Fintech) in the digital marketing space. He founded and sold Higher Click SEO Agency and has lectured on internet marketing at Harvard Business School and Oxford University (amongst other organizations). He has also been quoted by various industry leaders on growth marketing. Before entering the technology and marketing space, Andrew was a dual-qualified Lawyer in Australia and the UK. He worked as a lawyer at Linklaters (a Magic Circle UK Law Firm) in the UK and as an investment banking analyst at Rothschild in Sydney, Australia.
Jordan Fried is a blockchain evangelist and crypto-capitalist. He’s currently the Chairman and CEO of Immutable Holdings, “The Blockchain Holding Company.” He founded and operates NFT.com as well as Immutable Asset Management. Previously Jordan was part of the founding team behind Hedera Hashgraph (Hedera.com). He served as Senior Vice President of Business Development at Hedera from inception in 2017 until the end of 2020, signing partnerships with Google, IBM, Boeing, and LG Electronics while also launching $HBAR into one of the top 100 cryptocurrencies in the world. Jordan also co-founded and served as CEO of Buffered VPN, one of the most trusted personal VPN services online until it was acquired in the first quarter of 2017. In 2012 Jordan discovered Bitcoin and never turned back.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-How Jordan and Andrew met and began working together…09:17
- Buffered VPN
- Began Hedera Hashgraph in 2017
- SEO was still a nascent industry when they began working together
- Business is all about people
-Andrew's TBI protocol that was shared on the internet and caught Ben's eye years ago…13:22
- Started biohackgroup.com with Kyle Armour of nft.com
- Wim Hof holotropic breathing while standing on a hard surface (highly ill-advised)
- Found solutions to optimizing the brain, and dysfunction in the brain not related to the concussion
- Podcast with Andrew Hill:
- Cognitive FX in Utah
- FNCI (functional neuro cognitive imaging)
- Ketone esters
- NeurOptimal brain training device
- The Concussion Repair Manual by Dr. Dan Engle
- The brain is like a muscle; give it adequate rest
- NuCalm device
- BrainTap device
- How To Recover From A TBI/Concussion Fast and brain enhancing shake
- biohackinggroup on Facebook
-How Jordan identifies as “hardcore keto”…32:21
- Moving to Budapest, Hungary led to awareness of the American diet and its deficiencies
- Crossfit-built community, a welcoming, judgment-free environment
- High-fat diet
- Drinkable ketone esters Ketone Aid and H.V.M.N. Ketone Ester (use code BENG to save 10%)
- Podcast with Geoffrey Woo:
- HVMN Ketone IQ (use code BENG to save 10%)
- Ketone Aid
- Styrian pumpkin seed oil
- Andreas Seed Oils
- Podcast with Andreas Wecker:
-Non-negotiables in Andrew and Jordan's daily routines…44:45
- Sleep stack (rotate as necessary)
- Awakened Alchemy
- Stay in a relaxed state 8-9 hours, even if not asleep
- Audible group for books (until Amazon catches on and kills it off)
- Downtime optimization: Consume and create content in small chunks
- Eat That Frog! by Brian Tracy
- Whoop 4.0 device
- Oura Ring
- Apollo ankle bands
-A few of the unlimited benefits of NFTs…58:02
- River Greenfield's Bubbles NFT
- Ben's Boundless Cookbook NFT
- Applying the rigors of biohacking to wealth, business, etc.
- Blockchain allows 24/7/365 access to funds
- You can't withdraw your entire balance in full at a bank
- NFTs are decentralized (and in ways more legitimate) intellectual property
- Artists release NFTs to monetize their work
- Smart contract functions
-Why NFT.com is the bee's knees of the NFT space…1:07:07
- Community-controlled ecosystem
- Genesis keys on nft.com
- Founders of the Internet did not intend for it to become what it has become
- Data has become the oil of the digital age
- Can only join via invite (Genesis Key)
- Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO)
- To get a Genesis key:
- Go to nft.com
- Join the whitelist:
- Email address
- Ethereum address
- MetaMask Ethereum wallet
- Whitelist auction to determine the price of the Genesis Key
-Top things Jordan and Andrew do to maximize productivity during long work hours…1:26:10
- Always prioritize sleep, diet, exercise
- Quick bursts of activity
- Don't forget to be grateful for the small things
- 5 Minute Journal app
-And much more…
- PaleoFX (April 29 -May 1, 2022).
- RUNGA – The Gathering (May 12-14, 2022). Register for the event now by clicking here
- Health Optimization Summit! Use code BEN for 20% off (May 22-29, 2022)
- Keep up on Ben's LIVE appearances by following bengreenfieldlife.com/calendar
Resources from this episode:
- Ben Got COVID (& What He Did About It), How To Fix Issues With Your Brain, The “God Cap” For Neurofeedback, Do Home Neurofeedback Devices Work & More With Dr. Andrew Hill.
- The Latest Research On Ketones & Ketosis For Performance & Recovery, Do Ketones Break A Fast, Using Ketones For 45 Days Of Crossfit Murph, Ketone Esters vs. Ketone Salts & More With Geoffrey Woo of H.V.M.N.
- How An Olympic Champion Overcame Near Death, Healed His Gut & Shoulder & Changed The Nutritional World Forever With “Seed Oils”: An Interview With Andreas Wecker.
– Other Resources:
- How To Recover From A TBI/Concussion Fast And Brain Enhancing Shake
- Kyle Armour
- Wim Hof Method
- Frank Llosa
- River Greenfield's Bubbles NFT
- Ben's Boundless Cookbook NFT
- Buffered VPN
- Hedera Hashgraph
- Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO)
- MetaMask Ethereum Wallet
- Cognitive FX
- FNCI (Functional Neuro Cognitive Imaging)
- Blue Light Floatation
- HVMN Ketone Esters (use code BENG to save 10%)
- Ketone Aid
- Styrian Pumpkin Seed Oil
- Andreas Seed Oils
- Awakened Alchemy
- Whoop 4.0
- Oura Ring
–Timeline Nutrition: Timeline is offering 10% off your first order of Mitopure. Use code BEN to get 10% off your order. (00:56)
–Essentia Mattresses: Lifestyle, performance, and whole body. Get 25% off your Essentia Mattress through April 30, 2022. (02:54)
–Clearlight Saunas: You can be sure that I researched all the saunas before I bought mine and Clearlight was the one that stood out from all the rest because of their EMF and ELF Shielding and their Lifetime Warranty. Mention BEN GREENFIELD and you’ll receive an extra discount on your purchase. (04:37)
–Thrive Market: Organic brands you love, for less. Your favorite organic food and products. Join today to get 40% off your first order AND a FREE gift! (25:54)
–Ketone IQ by HVMN: One Bottle of Ketone-IQ contains 10 servings designed to be taken daily in the morning to elevate your ketone levels. (24:16)
–Spring Transformation Challenge: If you are looking to spring into action with our Spring Tribal Transformation Challenge, make sure to secure your spot. It's limited to 150 participants! (27:12)
–Endure: My new book, Endure, is now available for pre-order! I’ll gift you the first three chapters of Endure as an instantly downloadable e-book and I'll give you a sweet discount on the exact journal my family and I developed and use each day, The Spiritual Disciplines Journal. (1:30:58)