[Transcript] – Is There One Perfect Diet For All Humankind, Keto vs. Plant-Based, Hunger & Carb Cravings Pro Tips & More With Matt & Wade, Authors Of The Ultimate Nutrition Bible.

Affiliate Disclosure


From: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/nutrition-bible-podcast/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:17] The Ultimate Nutrition Bible

[00:05:11] Wade's personal nutritional preferences

[00:08:04] Managing genetic predispositions with food

[00:12:55] Matt's intake on the impact of genetics on diet

[00:19:25] Wade's hunger management tactics

[00:22:53] Matt's hunger management tactics

[00:26:19] A testing lab in Bosnia

[00:28:30] Matt's current diet

[00:33:04] Developing their own testing and app

[00:35:49] Wade's current diet

[00:38:53] Ben's selling his complete bio-hacked home

[00:40:32] Calories in, calories out

[00:53:44] End of Podcast

[00:54:45] Legal Disclaimer

Ben:  My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Wade:  I'm working on creating a working theory of what fibers could be used in conjunction with repopulation of microbiome. Because ultimately, the goal is as you get healthier, I think you should have a far greater array of choices than less. A lot of people get into a diet and they try to restrict their way to health, and they mistake the getting the crap out of their diet in the early stages of restriction as the benefit itself. But ultimately, every diet has holes in it and those holes are going to become apparent. So, when people switch from one diet to another, what happens is they mistake the new diet as the fix. Really, the new diet had things that the old diet was missing, and then the fix is where they get the benefit.

Ben:  Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this.

Look at that, folks. That is called “The Ultimate Nutrition Bible.” I'm holding it up right now on the camera. If you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/NutritionBiblePodcast, you'll be able to see it. As a guy who likes to write big books myself because I'm not as good as, was it Mark Twain who said if I had more time, this letter would have been shorter? I just can't push pause on books, neither can my guests on today's show. Matt Gallant and Wade Lightheart wrote this beast. I'm going to drop it. I'm trying to break my feet or my desk. And, if you've been a fan of the podcast for any time, you might be familiar with Matt and Wade. Not only are they the well-known figureheads behind the company BiOptimizers, which makes a lot of stuff I talk about on a regular basis like Magnesium Breakthrough and my favorite Gluten Guardian, which lets me actually have bread and pasta at restaurants. But, these guys also have taken a deep dive into the science of nutrition and strength conditioning and exercise.

I mean, Matt is a strength conditioning coach. He's got years of formulating supplements and experience in that industry. He's a ketogenic diet enthusiast. He's a serial entrepreneur. He's built over 14 companies. Wade actually happens to, in addition to being just as prolific a businessman as Matt, a bodybuilder, three-time national bodybuilding champion. He competed in IFBB Mr. Universe, the INBA Natural Olympics. And, at the age of 50, he came out of retirement to the open men's and grand masters category in bodybuilding. And, happens to eat, I believe I can catch up with you on this as well later on Wade, a more of a plant-based approach. And, these guys joined me for a podcast on probiotic enemas and digestive enzymes. And, we did another one on fixing metabolic mistakes and ketogenic diet. They helped me pen a couple of super popular articles at Ben Greenfield Life about nootropics as they're also involved with this company, Nootopia, which you hear me talk about, is a really great nootropics company.

So, they're obviously all over the map and we're incredibly blessed to be able to get them on the show today. So, fellas, welcome.

Matt: Great to be here.

Wade:  Thanks for having us, Ben. And, we have to give a shout-out to “Boundless,” your book. I remember when that came out, you kind of set the standard for voluminous writing. So, we're obviously the same camp. I share the same challenge that you identified. He's like, “How do we summarize that?” And, that started out as 1,100 pages, I think, wasn't it, Matt?

Matt:  Yeah, first was 1,100. Actually, fun fact, Ben, our publishers or literary agents use your book as a reference to negotiate our book deal with Hay House because they say, “Well, hey, ‘Boundless' was successful, so this will work as well.” 

Ben:  You know what, you're the third person who's told me that. They take the book scan numbers and they pull it to look for, is there any successful book that anybody would actually want to read and take on an airplane that weighs 2 pounds, it's 600 plus pages, and “Boundless” did fall into that category. I think it was 1,800 pages before I kissed goodbye to all my babies and edited it up a little bit. But, I don't think I've told you this, but behind the scenes, I'm working on Boundless 2.0. So, I'm back in the throes of writing for two to three hours a day and researching and doing all the updates. As you guys know, this industry moves lightning fast as far as health research, nutrition research, biohacking technologies, and all the things that people are interested in to the extent to where “Boundless” is what, three and a half years old. And already, I feel it's getting a little bit outdated and needs a refresher.

Matt:  Yeah, it's one of things Wade and I have talked about is how many years can we go by before we refresh it and write the next version.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. The last time we talked, Wade, you were bodybuilding on a plant-based diet; Matt, you were a little bit more involved in the keto diet. And, since really based on the title of your book, we're going to be talking a lot about diet today. Catch me up on this. Where were you guys at as far as your own personal nutrition practices?

Matt:  Go ahead, Wade.

Wade:  Yeah. So, one of the things that I always find challenging is becoming too identified with any single diet strategy. And so, I haven't eaten any flesh since 2021.

Ben:  Oh, you make it so gross when you say it like that eating any flesh.

Wade:  Yeah.

Ben:  It sounds cannibalistic.

Wade:  So, I've had eggs occasionally, I'll have ice cream occasionally and I have cheese occasionally, usually on my spike days or I'm in a social occasion. So, I'm not a vigilante vegan. I don't buy into the ethical story about killing because plants are alive and communicate and stuff. So, I kind of strip away all of the ethical or moral grandstanding that people tend to do on diets. I'm seeing kind of that happening also right now in the carnivore space is creating sort of this polarity between a carnivore versus a vegan. And, one of my favorite influencers is Jordan Peterson. And, him and his daughter saved their lives because of a genetic condition by going on a complete carnivore diet. So, I just say, “Oh, you're evil and bad because you've avoided yourself.” That makes no sense to me.

And, why I'm saying that is because a plant-based diet I've developed largely in part to address some genetic conditions, as well as to explore what could be done on a performance side on a plant-based diet with most people said couldn't be done. And so, I realized that there was a gap between what might be common versus what might be possible. And so, I got interested in it and it worked for me. And, one of the interesting points is that if I wasn't in business with Matt and had so many discussions for so many years, there were major holes in my plant-based strategy that the ketogenic perspective helped me fill so that I could hit my performance and health goals. So, what the whole design of the book was designed is to let's strip past just dietary cult dynamics and let's get into what is your goals, how do you best achieve them, and how do you enhance your optimal genetics and offset your suboptimal genetics. And so, for me, that turns out to be a plant-based diet. For Matt, that turns out to be a ketogenic diet.

Ben:  You brought up genetics a couple of times there and specifically, the first time you brought it up said that one of the things that drove you towards more of a plant-based approach was to manage genetic predispositions. What do you mean by that?

Wade:  Yeah. So, if you look at my genes, I've got a couple of interesting challenges. One is I have suboptimal genetics for cardiovascular health. Two, I have suboptimal genetics for feeling full. In other words, left to my own design, I'll overeat. The other thing is I have suboptimal genetics for blood sugar regulation. So, if I followed a traditional bodybuilding diet, which I used to do before I went plant-based, I can stay lean, I can stay fit, I can stay on a high-performance side, I had a lot of success in that at that type of diet, and I would likely have some sort of cardiovascular event when I'm in my late 70s, early 80s, stroke, heart disease, something like that. So, I was like, okay, well, the cardiovascular outcomes on a plant-based diet are really good. The problem is it's not so good on a blood sugar level. So, I had to adapt the bodybuilding mentality, upping my protein content, which can be an issue on plant-based diets improve my digestive capabilities so I can get more amino acids out of the protein I am consuming, which is generally less than someone who is eating animal products. I had to supplement with essential fatty acids that I wasn't getting sufficient levels in my diet. And, I used fiber as a way to offset my tendency to eat too much because I have a delay in my fullness feeling. And, by doing that, I've been able to keep my blood sugar at a level that when you do a HOMA-IR test, it looks like I'm on a ketogenic diet. I don't have food cravings even on calorie restriction and I have a spike day every week where I get to eat all the fun foods without any guilt and association.

Now, do I know if I'm going to offset that cardiovascular risk? The data says that I'm in a good place right now. I don't know what's going to happen when I'm 80, so I'm betting on that as I opened up a vet when Dave Asprey attacked my plant-based diet and made all these crazy accusations about phytic acid and I was going to have kidney stones. And, the reality was is all of the things that he said I actually have data to support that have none of the things that he was stating that was problems I was going to inquire from that diet.

Ben:  Okay. So, the spike day, by the way, some people say that and refer to it as a carb refeed day, others is more a growth hormone stemming day. For you, what do you mean when you say spike day?

Wade:  Yeah. When we talk about this in the book, and all kudos to Scott Abel, my former bodybuilding coach who created what he called the Cycle Diet. And, the concept behind the cycle diet is that you eat below your calorie maintenance levels for about six days a week. And ideally, for a male, you would want between a 500 minimum and ideally about a thousand calorie deficit part from diet, half from diet, half from exercise deficit. You run that for six days. And then, on the spike day, you kind of just load up on the calories, refill your glycogen stores. The hormones inside your body aren't able to adapt to start putting on body fat. You'll get some water retention and your weight will shoot up, but what the benefit is it keeps your body from lowering its metabolic rate from extensive dieting.

So, if I go through that cycle–and, by the way in order to set that up, you need probably at least at least 12 to 16 weeks of dieting prematurely so that you get your body into a continuous deficit state for an extended time where you wouldn't have spike days, get your body fat into a reasonable level and then it's going to work better. And then, what will happen, you'll spike up, you'll gain anywhere between, for myself that's around 185 pounds. I'll gain about 10 pounds on that one day. It's just intestinal bulk water retention and stuff.

And, by the end of the week, I'll be down a pound to a pound and a half of body fat because I'm keeping my metabolism high while I'm doing that. So, that's what you're offsetting. It's really well done in his book, “The Cycle Diet,” for people who want to get into the nuances. And, it also fits within, we've adapted it for different styles of diet in the book.

Ben:  Yeah. It sounds like a little bit of a variant of keto cycling or carb cycling or something like that.

Hey, Matt. When Wade talks about having the genetic predisposition to not feeling full enough, have you ever just recommended Ozempic to him?

Matt:  Well, I've experimented quite a bit with Tirzepatide, Ozempic. We've chatted about it.

Ben:  And, what's your take?

Matt:  One of my favorite parts of the book, and if I could just disseminate one key concept into the world, especially on the weight loss side, is the realization that the reason people have failed is because of genetics and not in the same context you've heard before. The context we're referring to is if you diet too hard too fast, the starvation survival mechanisms kick in, whether it's hunger driven by ghrelin or NPY in the brain, leptin decreasing, metabolism decreasing, loss of lean body mass, new fat cells being developed, which is actually something a lot of people don't know. If you get really lean, one of the defense mechanisms is actually creating new fat cells. So, before we thought, well, your body's going to create new fat cells once the existing ones are overfilled and then just creates new ones. Well, it just so happens your body will create new ones again so that it's sending more signals to your brain, to your body, to start eating again and putting on weight.

So, when we look at Ozempic, any GLP-1 agonist from that lens, what it's doing, it's helping people override that survival mechanism. And obviously, the results are incredibly impressive. And, I've been a proponent of that. Wade can attest I've been saying this for many years that I think the endgame solution for weight loss is probably some sort of gene therapy. I mean, right now you can inject GLP-1 agonist and you got to keep re-injecting every week. But ideally, it'd be, go in, get a shot once every year, two years, or a permanent upgrade where you're eating because you should not because you're hungry or being compelled by these survival mechanisms.

Ben:  There is this dopaminergic response to food that's part of the joy of being a human, just like going out of the steakhouse and ordering some great things and having a fantastic meal. And, part of me wonders if we get into gene therapy that downregulates that response if you're going to all of a sudden create kind of–not that enjoyment of food is doing us any favors in the obesity department with full-time access to hyperpalatable foods, but I sometimes wonder, it's like, man, you are supposed to sit down and just enjoy a meal every once in a while and get that neurotransmitter response to it, right?

Matt:  Yeah. I think if you're eating hyperpalatable foods like your favorite foods, there's a massive dopamine response, massive serotonin response if you're eating a lot of carbohydrates. If you're eating fat and sugar together, your brain will light up as if you're doing heroin, which I've watched Wade eat a sidecar donut in LA. It was pretty much a heroin-like response. So yeah, there's a massive neurochemical response to food. And, I know people that consider themselves food addicts or have food issues, and for them, that's a real problem, right? That's what's driving a lot of that unhealthy behavior with food is the pursuit of those neurochemicals. So anyways, but yeah. Even when you're on it, of course, you're not going to gorge the way you normally would. You still enjoy food.

Ben:  Yeah. So, it's not black or white, all or nothing in terms of the food enjoyment piece. That's helpful to know. What were you going to say, Wade?

Wade:  Yeah. So, I wanted to circle back to just why not use Ozempic. And so, one of the constraints that I've put on to my whole process is when I'm competing in contests–these are all drug-tested contests and stuff, so I can't use TRT, I can't use any of the enhancements that could distort the results and give me a competitive advantage against my competitors. Now, that's not to say I'm against all those things or I think people should or shouldn't do, and that's an individual choice and I'm all about people make the freedom of choice. 

However, when I'm communicating to the audience, I'm communicating from an experiential basis saying, “Hey, this is a unaltered hormonal profile.” Because I train at Gold's Gym in Venice. So, I can get to the world championships in bodybuilding. I can't win the champions in bodybuilding on a natural level, but I can walk down to the gym here in Gold's Gym and I can probably, on any given moment, find 30 to 40 guys that could walk into the contest and win the natural bodybuilding championships but they're enhanced. And so, what I feel is disingenuous to the listeners or people that are buying into stuff is if I'm using hormonal augmentation, it's very hard to separate the hormonal augmentation or whatever chemicals I'm using from the strategy itself because I don't know how much is corrupting that data. If I was doing exactly the same thing I am now and I was on TRT and let's say I was on Ozempic and let's say I was stacking a few anabolic peptides into the program, I would probably be somewhere between 8 and 15 pounds heavier on a competition stage and I'd probably be a couple of percentage lower.

That takes me from an also ran at the world-class level to competing for the championship title. That's the difference between those two things. So, when I talk about these things and when I go down that road, I'm trying to kick that can as far down the road, for example, on TRT. When I go down that road, I would be clear that I would announce that. And, I believe that's important as an advocate that we're transparent with our listeners so they know all of the things that are maybe influencing our result because some people are not comfortable sharing all the things that they might be doing that's influencing a result.

Now, on page 99 of the book, you guys start an entire chapter devoted to managing cravings. You have the Japanese pre-meal prayer and protein and fiber and ginger and all sorts of stuff. But, if I were going out to eat with you guys, let's say tonight for dinner and you wanted to use some kind of hunger management tactic, what would be the top of the totem pole for you guys right now?

Wade:  Two things, protein and fiber. So, if you're more on an animal protein side, you probably want to have some protein. If you're more on the vegetarian side, protein. And, if you're not supplementing with the protein per se, and I think for most plant-based folks, you probably should be. You probably don't have enough pool of protein to extract the amino acids out. But, the killer is fiber. I mean, I am the fiber king according to Matt. I shoot for somewhere around 85 grams of fiber a day about three times what the average person is getting in America. There's a lot of data supporting that, the four different types of fibers for a reduction of all-causes mortality. Anywhere is from 12 to 35%.

Ben:  Wait, you said four types of fiber. Is that beyond just soluble and insoluble?

Wade:  Well, insoluble is a whole other level. So, you got legumes, you got fruits, you got vegetable fibers. So, I just did a couple of articles on those things specifically on my site to illustrate. And then, you have cereal fibers is the other one. And, there's a meta-analysis of 14 studies, for example. And, out of those studies, it was over, I think, about 1,400,000 people. It was a 12 to 35% reduction of all-causes mortality. I kind of outline how much fiber. But, from a satiety factor, that's a longevity factor. From a satiety factor, I mean fiber is great. I also believe, and we have evidence from our lab in Bosnia, that it's supportive. Different types of fiber are more supportive for a diverse microbiome. So, I'm working on creating a working theory of what fibers could be used in conjunction with repopulation of microbiome. Because ultimately, the goal is as you get healthier, I think you should have a far greater array of choices than less. And, a lot of people get into a diet and they try to restrict their way to health, and they mistake the getting the crap out of their diet in the early stages of restriction as the benefit itself. But ultimately, every diet has holes in it, and those holes are going to become apparent.

So, when people switch from one diet to another, what happens is they mistake the new diet as the fix. Really, the new diet had things that the old diet was missing and then the fix is where they get the benefit. And, I'm dietary agnostic. I know I kind of divert it there, but I just want to expand on the fiber piece a little bit.

Ben:  Yeah. You're also a horse or a cow, jeez, 85 grams of fiber. That's nuts.

Matt, I'm curious what your strategy would be. And, if you care to tack on after you reply, I'm curious about this secret Batman lab in Bosnia that Wade referred to.

Matt:  Sure. First of all, I can confirm that when Wade goes to Whole Foods and he puts the salad on scale is 3 to 4 pounds. 

Ben:  Man.

Matt:  Yeah.

Ben:  That's an expensive salad at Whole Foods.

Matt:  He's the king of fiber.

Wade:  I don't know why Jeff hasn't given me a Bentley or something as a customer of his or something, but we're hoping.

Matt:  Yeah. From the hunger side, I think the number one thing is getting enough sleep, which is not a tactical thing on the day of but the day before. And, if you look at the research on cravings, also blood sugar response, if you have a bad night's sleep, it's night and day. And, I've certainly noticed that myself. Have bad sleep, I'll just be craving more food and tend to eat more.

In terms of a drink you can have throughout the day that actually helps, decaf coffee is the best. So, that's a great solution if you want to kind of drink something all day. And, I like putting salt. So, decaf coffee and salt, it actually tastes almost like a soup, it's more savory, and I'm a big fan of that.

During the meal, I remember being on a plane ride a few years ago and the guy next to me told me he lost over 200 pounds. And, he told me a couple of things that I never researched, but then as I was writing this chapter, I dove into it and ended up being true. One of them was not drinking carbonated drinks, which before I used to do a lot. I used to drink carbonated drinks and the data shows that it can increase hunger. So, that's one thing that's interesting.

Ben:  That's kind of paradoxical because a lot of people say the bubbles fill you up.

Matt:  Exactly. So again, the references in the chapter. And, the other one, which I do is smaller plates. So, he told me about was smaller plates. And then, if you look at the data at Chinese food buffets and all these restaurant experiments that have been done, people will eat in proportion to the plate size. So, if I'm having a little bit of Halo Top ice cream at night, I'll use a small cup and a small spoon. And, I know it sounds trivial, but it makes a difference.

Ben:  Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm cracking up right now. You see me smiling in the video. My family laughs at me because my wife and my sons who are both significantly smaller than me grab these big dinner plates for dinner and I have two plates. And, I'll usually just go into the dishwasher and wash them at dinner because there's only two of them in the house. They're these teeny tiny minuscule appetizer plates, and that's what I put dinner on. And then, my ice cream bowl, they laugh at this too. My ice cream bowl is a little larger than a shot glass and it's a total appetite control strategy for me. And yeah, I go back for seconds regardless. But, if I go back for seconds after a tiny plate and a shot-sized glass of ice cream, I'm still eating fewer calories than the big version. It sounds like a silly tactic but it works. It also messes up all the food on your plate, but I think it's worth it.

Matt:  Yeah. As far as lab, so in 2019, I went to visit our CTL who lives in Bosnia in Sarajevo. And, as I was touring the university that he's a professor at, there was a whole biology department that I didn't know existed. Met the head of the biology department, she's a part-time professor there, and then we created a partnership where we supply them with equipment the university would never buy. So, we've supplied them with well over a million dollars' worth of equipment so far. And, we get brilliant either master's students, Ph.D. students or Ph.D.s doing nonstop experiment. So, I meet with them every Tuesday morning. Met with them this morning. Right now, just to give you kind of an example, we're rebuilding Magnesium Breakthrough. So, we just ran a whole battery of experiments on red blood cell absorption and how much the water that each magnesium draws in. So, we're basically using all that data to build a better version. We did enzyme experiments because we're always working on new versions, better versions of our enzymes. We did a whole battery of P3-Om experiments, probiotic experiments including seed. So, we're not just testing our stuff but we test other people's. And, we're using basically laboratory split testing where we'll test combinations and a different array of experiments to create the most powerful products in every product class.

Ben:   That's incredible. Have you guys seen the mass spec guy on Instagram who's kind of catching on? He does mass spec analysis of a whole bunch of popular stuff like do Prime energy drink recently is one that I saw. He did some other herbal ayurvedic supplement. I'm not going to say which supplements I sent him, but I took about five that my listeners ask me about all the time. And, I'm shipping him a few key formulations. He's going to test it. And, we're going to do a podcast and using mass spec analysis to see if what's in your product is actually in it. But, you guys are just kind of running that on a weekly basis, huh?

Matt:  Yeah, yeah. We have a HPLC machine and that was about half a mil. 

Ben:  Yeah, yeah, they're not inexpensive.

Matt, I didn't get a chance to give you the opportunity to fill me in on what your diet looks like because last time we talked, it was pretty hardcore keto. And obviously, I don't think you're ignorant of the fact that it seems that the keto diet has been a little bit more vilified lately as far as the potential impact of long-term carbohydrate depletion on endocrine or thyroid function or glycolytic capacity in athletes, et cetera. So, I wonder where are you at right now with a keto diet?

Matt:  Yeah, just to bring up the listeners that didn't listen to that podcast really quickly. Started first ketogenic diet when I was 15. Came home from school one day and my uncle said I was fat. Pissed me off. Decided to start running, do an Atkins diet. Went from 190 to 147 in six months. And then, got into bodybuilding and then discovered the anabolic diet from Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale, which was a cyclical ketogenic diet. Basically, you would carb refeed couple days a week. And, that worked. Looking back, I was making a ton of mistakes, but I went from 147 to 235 three years. I was training 12 times a week. Definitely added some body fat, but it was a ton of lean muscle mass as well. And, I would say right now, yeah, I'm really focusing on rebuilding my nutritional strategy in a completely new way. And, not even Wade's heard this, by the way.

So, for example, a lot of it is influenced by the book and the methodologies in the book. So, Wade referenced nutrigenomics. A couple of big ones for me is I want to have bad genes for saturated fats. And, being on a ketogenic diet, that's a big worry. So now, what I'm doing is shifting my cuts, the far leaner cuts, replacing the fat with olive oil. So, I'm consuming olive oil pretty much daily. I'm looking at increasing fiber intake because the one thing I haven't been able to optimize in my biomarkers is my lipids. And, I think I wasn't aware of the saturated fat genetic issue and I was probably overconsuming saturated fats, underconsuming fiber. So now, I'm looking at my diet, I'm thinking, well, what's the optimal quantity of all these critical nutrients from a weekly perspective? If you look at your diet, you got calories, so you got to optimize your calories based on your goals. You got macronutrients, which carbs, fiber, fats, protein. And then, you got nutrients. So, I'm trying to optimize my nutrient, my micronutrient intake, got bad genetics for zinc, bad genetics for selenium, so I need to intake more of those.

And yeah, I'm just looking at my diet from a nutrient perspective because calories and macros are pretty dialed in, but can I switch my fats to better fats? We're doing a ton of fat research in our lab. So, we've been doing hundreds if not thousands of experiments on algae oil, krill oil trying to break them down into fatty acids, what are good fatty acids, what are bad fatty acids, and trying to optimize kind of on that level. So yeah, that's where I'm at.

Ben:  Yeah, that's interesting. I've kind of intuitively taken a similar direction in terms of my own approach to ketosis. I still eat what a lot of people would probably classify as a low-carbohydrate diet. But, pretty much every night, I'm eating 200 to 300 grams of carbohydrates while restricting most of the rest of the day. And, like you, primarily based on concerns about plaque scan and calcium scan scores along with some of the genetics components, because I'm hardwired similarly in terms of the inflammatory response to saturated fats have shifted towards fatty fish, monounsaturated fats, a more Mediterranean approach, less butter, less lard. Unfortunately, less saving the fatty caps of the ribeye and the pork chop for just me and a few things that I enjoyed for a long time. But, it is interesting. I've talked to many other people who have adopted what I would say is a more Mediterranean fat-based approach to a ketogenic diet with some amount of cycling thrown in for a lot of the reasons that you've just stated.

There's something that I think is important for people. It's probably a quick question. But, when you talk about nutrigenomics, there's obviously a lot of different ways to test. What do you guys prefer as far as the type of test to get?

Matt:  We're actually working on our own tests. Obviously, if you get a genetic test, 23andMe or any sort of test, you get the raw data. So, what a lot of companies are doing is they'll pick certain snippets, certain variants, and then essentially create an insight report. So, what we're working on is one that's pretty much hyper-focused on nutrition, supplements, so that we can give people really powerful insights. And, I feel it's one of the greatest investments anyone can make in their health. I mean, what's the value for me knowing that I shouldn't overconsume saturated fats? Maybe that's adding an extra decade two or three to my life. What's the value of the insights for Wade to know that he's also predisposed to cardiovascular problems? It's massive, right? We're making corrective actions years and decades before alarm bells are ringing. And, I think for everyone listening, I would assume everybody listening is focused on health, lifespan, health span. So, the value of it is massive.

Ben:  And, that'll be at-home salivary?

Matt:  Yeah, yeah, at-home salivary. And then, we also built an app. So, our goal is to feed your data into our nutrition app that's going to look at it, and then make personalized recommendations based on your goals. We're trying to make it as simple and easy as possible to have a truly personalized nutritional experience.

Ben:  I like that. Right now, I'm coaching 10 people on diet and fitness. Will there be a trainer feature? Could I actually use that with my clients?

Matt:  That's the goal.

Ben:  That's cool.

The other quick question I had for you guys just to make sure I'm cleaning up things as we go here is you've both mentioned some of your micronutrient and calorie tracking. I'm aware of chronometer is one good tool for that, but what do you guys prefer to use for that?

Matt:  In terms of tracking my calories?

Ben:  Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. No, I use our app. So, we've built an app that can do that, Ultimate Nutrition app.

Ben:  And, that's available?

Matt:  Yeah.

Ben:  I didn't even know you guys [00:35:32] _____. I thought I read your book thoroughly. I must have missed that part.

Matt:  Yeah, it's out. Again, we're bunch of recipes. We support a bunch of nutritional diet styles. We've got barcode or you can scan barcodes. Ton of cool features. And yeah, just download it and use it.

Ben:  Okay.

Wade:  And, on my side, Ben, because left to my own devices, I just will go off the rails. And so, I just eat the same thing every day all week long. So, I keep that calorie deficit that I was sharing with you. And so, I keep that calorie deficit about a thousand a day, and then I have my spike day where I can just go, let my inner lizard man just go to the buffet and go wild. I love that. And then, every year on holidays, I take a holiday in December and I take several weeks off where I just eat whatever I want. And then, I try to put the binders on and the binders never come on fast enough. I can gain weight so easily. I could just become a fat doughboy in no time.

And so, as a reminder every year, the Christmas holidays because I go back to my cultural roots. We're from the fattest unhealthiest province in Canada and Christmas is a bonanza of just everything that you would never put on any kind of diet regimen at all. And, I go to it and I don't disappoint all my relatives. It's bad enough that I'm a vegetarian. That's weird enough and I just go crazy. And then, I spend the next six weeks after Christmas to get myself back to my normal weight, and then I celebrate that for six months and I go on a vacation maybe in the summer and I do something for a couple of weeks and go off again.

And so, I know that those little cycles and those little nutrition breaks on the holidays allow me to sample foods that I wouldn't get access to. I went to Turkey a couple years ago. I mean, I was just overwhelmed with the plethora of cool foods there. I went to Dubai. I found a whole bunch of foods over there. So, I like those food tours where I get exposed to things that are outside of my range. because before I was so restrictive, I would just never deviate from my diet, and now as a real party pooper on that side. So, I try to limit the amount of fun I have in my diet to calculated times.

Ben:  I deviate all the time when I travel, and the only trick I have for that is I rarely Uber or take public transport or taxi when I travel. I walk. I average about 25,000 steps a day when I'm traveling. People will be like, “Hey, where's the event?” “It's 3 miles down the road.” I say, “Hey, I'll be there in 50 minutes.” And, I just put my backpack and walk. And, because I'm such a foodie and like to try a wide variety of foods especially when I travel, I think just that simple step alone, I'll come back from a vacation or a workation eating 4,000 calories a day and I've often lost 4 to 5 pounds.

Wade:  Yeah, that happened to me last year. I brought my family on a cruise and I lost weight. I was in Europe three weeks and there just a walking, a lot of walking. So, yeah, it's a great strategy.

Ben:  Yeah.

This is interesting. For anyone who wants a done-for-you complete biohacked home, I am selling my entire tricked-out house located on 8.5 acres of forested land in Spokane, Washington. It includes a guest house, pool house, barn, whole setup for garden, goats, chickens, herbs, fire pit, along with a ton of biohacking goodies. The air, the light, the water, the electricity is all completely tricked out for optimized human biology. The highest quality air filtration systems, natural lighting friendly to circadian rhythms, low EMF, dirty electricity filters, EMF blocking equipment throughout, built to be off-grid when necessary with buried propane and solar grid, toxin-free and low VOC construction materials, the most advanced water filtration systems one can find, a massive vegetable garden, greenhouse, herb garden, outdoor fire pit, goat and chicken grazing pasture and barn all in a beautiful forest that's about 25 minutes from the airport and 20 minutes from downtown. This can all be yours if you're looking for a place to get away in a safe natural Area and you're looking for the best of the best biohacks done for you. Here's where you can go to check it out and to fill out a form with your interest, BiohackedSpokaneHome.com. That's BiohackedSpokaneHome.com. Check it out.

Okay. I got to ask you guys because I think people would get upset if I didn't since I get asked this all the time because there are a lot of people still champing CICO message, calories in, calories out. What's your guys' take on that?

Matt:  We're ready for this one, man. Yeah, I think we've settled the debate. So, just to give everybody kind of the landscape. There's two camps: One camp that says calories in, calories out is a law of thermodynamics no one can escape and there's another camp that's saying, well, there's all these variables; hormones, leptin, et cetera, et cetera. And, the reality is they're both right. And, when we look at, let's just take a look at calories in, I think it's pretty simple, right? You ingest calories whether it's carbs, proteins, fats, fiber. Your body has to deal with it. I think the two key points to keep in mind is that when you're consuming protein, your body has to break down about 25 to 30% of the calories consumed to just metabolize that protein, break it down into amino acids, which is awesome. So, your net calories are lower if you consume a lot of protein. That's a really important point. And, that's what most pro bodybuilders do is they're getting closer and closer to the show, their percentage of protein just gets higher and higher and higher. And, that's true on a ketogenic diet or on a carb-based diet. And, with fiber, Wade being the fiber king knows this very well, you only absorb about half the calories.

So, in terms of being satiated and not overconsuming food, it's a great strategy. But, I think where it gets a lot more interesting and complex is looking at calories out. And, probably the number one variable is anabolism. And, I know this because I know some bodybuilders that have done some crazy experiments where they did a DEXA scan. They doubled their calorie intake, so they're trying to eat 7, 8,000 calories a day. They're eating to their biological limit. And, they lost body fat on a DEXA scan after 10 days despite gaining 15, 20 pounds of weight because they cranked their anabolism through the roof. Now, again, I'm not advocating doing that, they were doing a lot of things that I would personally never do. But, it just showcases how powerful anabolism is. And, for anybody who's had a child or has a kid, that anabolic period, it's like, man, they're just consuming calories growing like crazy.

I remember doing the math with my baby girls about to turn 2. If an adult was consuming the same amount of calories per pound as she was, it was over 10,000 calories a day. That's how powerful anabolism. And, Wade and I, of course, having had spent a lot of time bodybuilding, you have to eat more. Your body's burning more energy. So, there's a lot of natural ways you can improve anabolism, great sleep probably being number one. Consuming mTOR-activating meals at least probably four times a day. Weightlifting, obviously a big one, a critical one.

So, there's all these things people can do that can probably increase their calories out, 10, 20, 30%. So, that's huge. And, I'm not even talking about the metabolic boost of having more lean muscle mass, which we know a pound of lean muscle tissue burns about 300% more calories than a pound of fat. So, that helps over time, but there's other variables. Mitochondrial strength is a big one, mitochondrial health. Wade and I just did a really hardcore brain training experiment and we did five days of 750 milligrams of NAD. And, the theory is day four to five, you get mitochondrial fusion where your mitochondria just at a new level. And, I think Wade, you can attest that for about two months, there's a boost there.

Wade:  Yeah. For me, when I do NAD, I get about four months now. And now, I need less NAD. I've done about four. I think it's maybe five courses. And now, the last time I went, I only needed one day of NAD and I was good. I felt my energy levels were really high. So, there is a cumulative effect. I do like those five-day infusions. Kind of like Dr. Koniver worked out.

Ben:  Yeah.

Wade:  And, that's going to vary from person to person; their age, their tolerance level, all that sort of stuff as well. So, there is a lot of uniqueness and you want to have a medical professional.

And, just to finish off on Matt's side of things. In those anabolic conditions, people were taking a tremendous amount of exogenous hormones and energy practitioners and insulin and growth hormone and peptides and testosterone and all these sort of things to totally activate massive amounts of anabolic effect. So, if you're not course correcting for those things. 

I'll give you another example. And, I had a friend that did the Camino trail in Europe. So, he's walking approximately 20 to 25 miles every single day, and he's having these massive pasta meals and wine every night, these huge dinners and everything and he's losing weight. He gets back, he's 25 pounds lighter after just going [00:46:31] _____. And so, people go, “Yeah. Well, I was all in walking in Italy and I ate pasta and wine every day and I lost weight.” “Yeah. Well, what was your activity level?” So, that's part of the calories out and then there's all those variances.

Ben:  Yeah. I'm glad you guys brought up NAD too, by the way. I agree with that idea of regular infusions or large boluses followed by keeping levels up with daily supplementation. I mean, literally, I'll keep this PG rated, but on my butt right now, I have a NAD patch, one of these Ion Layer patches. And, I slap a patch on one or two times a week, which gives me around 750 mgs a couple of times a week. And then, I just top that off with oral supplementation. So, probably my two biggest 2.0 hacks for that type of thing, just longevity, feeling good, sleep deprivation, inflammation, busted ribs from frisbee golf, whatever, is any mitochondrial peptide or mitochondrial supporting peptide and then NAD. So, right now, I'm on SS41, MOTC and NAD. And, it's hard not to feel a million bucks when you're optimizing those two parameters.

Matt:  Yeah. Some other calories out variables, obviously neat non-exercise activity thermogenesis. And, I think I agree with Thomas DeLauer putting walking in that bucket. I think it's a great one. And obviously, I think everybody on this podcast is a big super fan of walking. And, that's more of a lifestyle decision thing. And, another thing that's really interesting that's gaining steam that I've been looking at for a few years is kind of microburst throughout the day. And, you get a huge boost, right? The delta, the difference between not moving and let's say sprinting up a flight of stairs or doing a set of push-up after every frisbee hole is those make a big difference on calories out. And, I think you're going to see a lot more. Research was hearing Rhonda Patrick talk about it with a guest recently, those little microbursts. It's powerful.

Ben:  I 100% agree. These days, like I mentioned, being in book-writing mode, I'll sometimes go in my office and just set a pact with myself that I can't open the door for the next seven hours. And, a lot times that means I'm skipping the gym, but I have a very light kettlebell. So, there's not a big barrier to entry. It's a 16 kg kettlebell I'll do some light swings with. I've got 4-pound hand weights. Again, low barrier to enter, but it allows me to just stop and do something like some overhead presses and some knee touches. And then, I have one of these CAR.O.L. bikes. And so, I'll sometimes work for eight hours in my office, come out and still have gotten a good hour of exercise and accumulated with five to 10-minute bursts.

Matt:  Yeah, powerful. And then, you got cold exposure. I think both from the heat loss during and then brown fat activation, which again obviously you got more mitochondria being turned on and get stronger.

And, by the way, Ben, you're one of the few guys I'd be willing to send this prototype to. So, we built a brown fat cap that is so potent that we have to make it milder. The early prototype [00:49:51] _____.

Ben:  What do you mean? It's like cooling technology for the head?

Matt:  No, no, no, this is a capsule. You take the cap.

Ben:  Oh, supplement. Okay.

Matt:  And then, even if you're exposed to air conditioning, it's enough to activate it and then a lot of people, I think, just scorch through their blood sugar because they're shivering.

Ben:  Yeah.

Matt:  And yeah, so it's really potent. So, I'll have to send you some prototypes. I know you like that kind of stuff.

Ben:  Man. Well, you guys, I know we're starting to run up against time here. Wade, I thought that you were going to throw some in. Were you about to say something?

Wade:  No. I guess just one brief thing is the top of the pyramid we go to gut biome, supplements, yeah, food allergies and sensitivities and then final, lifestyle. Those are the top part of the pyramid. So, at the bottom, spiritual and cultural, emotional, psychological. That's the bottom of it. Then goals, calories, nutrigenomics, gut biome, that's the middle of the pyramid. And then, the final stages are supplements, food, eliminating food allergies and sensitivities, and then getting into the lifestyle that you feel you're best at.

Ben:  I like that. That's a good approach. As you guys might know in “Boundless,” all I did was the last chapter is 13 different popular diets like the Weston A Price, vegan, Mediterranean, et cetera. And then, the blood, the DNA and the gut testing results, that would indicate whether or not that might be a good diet for you. But, this idea of spelling out also values, goals, lifestyle, biome, et cetera, I really like this approach. So, it's obviously all spelled out in the book, “The Ultimate Nutrition Bible.” Wade and Matt even put together this massive package of bonus recipes, pretty steep discount on the book, which is obviously big and heavy so we know it's hell of expensive. And, I will put links to all that if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/NutritionBiblePodcast. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/NutritionBiblePodcast.

I'm kind of surprised, guys. I got through a full episode with both of you and neither of you told me of some new enema recipe because it seems like every time I talk with you, you tell me to put yogurt or whatever up my butt and hang upside down. Okay. Alright, we'll finish with this. What do you got, Matt?

Matt:  And, full disclosure, I have not tried it. I'm a little apprehensive.

Ben:  Great, great. Thank you.

Matt:  But, I know you and probably excite you. So, according to a Russian friend of mine, he says that proteolytic enemas are the ultimate thing. So, basically taking MassZymes as an example, doing an enema with it. He says it's so intense that he tends to not do anything else that day.

Ben:  Well, I'm not going to be the first guy to eat away the lining of my colon. So, maybe I'll let you do it, Matt, first and you can let me know how it goes.

Matt:  There you go.

Ben:  But, I'll look into it honestly if you send me that research or any info on it. I'll put that in the shownotes as well because I've got at least 0.5% of the listeners who heard that and are adding that to their Sunday checklist this week.

Guys, thank you so much. I'm going to link to the other shows we did. They're always wide-ranging and highly entertaining. Time just flies by when I'm talking with you, guys. And, this new book, it's good, everybody. I actually had to get it back from my friend who borrowed it within a week after it arrived and he was enjoying it so much. I had to get it back before for this show, but it's “The Nutrition Bible.” BenGreenfieldLife.com/NutritionBiblePodcast is where you can access the shownotes. Leave your comments, your questions, your feedback for Wade or Matt or myself. And, until next time, I'm Ben along with the guys from BiOptimizers signing out.

Do you want free access to comprehensive shownotes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting-edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life, and a whole lot more? Check out BenGreenfieldLife.com. It's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com. See you over there. 

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Do you ever feel like you're locked in a battle with your diet, following all the rules but seeing no results? 

My guests on today's show, Matt Gallant and Wade T. Lightheart, just put the finishing touches on one of the most complete, unbiased nutrition books I've ever read: The Ultimate Nutrition Bible. If you grab it here (use code BEN10 to save 10%), you can start creating an optimized nutrition plan based on your goals, your genes, and your psychology.

Matt Gallant and Wade T. Lightheart, founders of BIOptimizers (use code BEN10 to save 10%), are here to help you identify the factors that will bring you lasting results by helping you create a nutritional strategy that works for you. This all-in-one, comprehensive guide to the current diet and nutritional landscape will help you establish a personalized, sustainable dietary strategy based on your goals, genetics, and unique needs.

Matt is a kinesiologist with a degree in the science of physical activity and the CEO/co-founder of BIOptimizers. He’s been a strength and conditioning coach for multiple pro athletes, a self-defense instructor, and has over 18 years of experience formulating supplements. He’s been successfully following a mostly ketogenic diet for over 30 years. He’s also a serial entrepreneur who’s built over 14 profitable companies.

Wade is a certified sports nutritionist advisor and the president, director of education, and co-founder of BIOptimizers. As a plant-based and drug-free athlete for more than two decades, Wade is a three-time National Natural Bodybuilding Champion who competed in both the IFBB Mr. Universe and the INBA Natural Olympia by the age of 31. At the age of 50, Wade came out of retirement to win the Open Men’s and Grand Master’s categories at the INBA Ironman International, then competed at the PNBA Natural Olympia. Six months later, Wade successfully ran his first marathon in four hours.

These guys are no strangers to the podcast. They've joined me for the episodes:

They also helped to formulate monster, helpful articles on my site like “The Ultimate Guide To Nootropics: How To Safely Use Better Living Through Science To Get The Most Firepower Out Of Your Brain.”

Ready to dive in and discover how your genetic predispositions can revolutionize your approach to nutrition and performance? Join me, Matt, and Wade as we share insights on managing genetic challenges, optimizing hunger management, and exploring the latest in personalized nutrition testing.

Oh, and great news — Matt and Wade are giving you an exclusive offer — not only will you get 10% off The Ultimate Nutrition Bible by using the promo code BEN10, but you’ll get over 200 recipes worth of cookbooks (along with other bonuses) as a thank-you for listening to the show!

During this discussion, you'll discover:  

The Ultimate Nutrition Bible…05:06

-Wade's personal nutritional preferences…09:00 

  • Wade hasn’t eaten flesh since 2021
  • Not a vigilante vegan
  • Strips away all of the ethical or moral grandstanding on diets
  • Developed his plant-based diet
    • To address some genetic condition
    • Explore what could be done on the performance side
  • A ketogenic perspective helped him fill major holes in his plant-based strategy

-Managing genetic predispositions with food…11:44

  • Matt has a couple of interesting challenges; has suboptimal genetics for
    • Cardiovascular health
    • For feeling full and overeating
    • For blood sugar regulation
  • A traditional bodybuilder diet would lead him to a cardiac event in his 70s or 80s
  • A plant-based diet does not deliver good outcomes for blood sugar level
  • Started a plant-based diet but had to make major adjustments
  • HOMA-IR blood glucose test
  • Scott Abel created the cycle diet
  • What is a “spike day”?
    • Eat below your calorie maintenance levels for about six days a week
    • On a spike day, you load up on the calories to refill glycogen stores
    • Hormones aren't able to adapt to start putting on body fat
  • To set that up, at least 12 to 16 weeks of dieting prematurely to get your body into a continuous deficit state for an extended time
  • The Cycle Diet by Scott Abel

-Matt's perspective on how genetics impact diet…16:32

  • The reason people fail weight loss is because of genetics
  • Dieting too hard, too fast — starvation survival mechanisms kick in
    • One defense mechanism is the creation of new fat cells
  • Ozempic or any GLP-1 agonist helps override that survival mechanism
  • The end-game solution for weight loss is probably some sort of gene therapy
  • Eating because you should, not because you're hungry or being compelled by survival mechanisms
  • Dopamine and serotonin response to food
  • When competing, you can’t use enhancements that could distort the results
    • Hard to separate hormonal augmentation from the strategy itself

-Wade’s hunger management tactics…22:52

  • Protein and fiber
  • Most plant-based folks should be supplementing with protein
    • Don't have enough pool of protein to extract the amino acids out
  • Wade is a fiber king — takes 85g of fiber per day
    • Three times more than an average person takes
  • Four types of fiber:
    • Legumes
    • Vegetable
    • Fruit
    • Cereal
  • A meta-analysis of 14 studies
    • 12% – 35% reduction of all causes of mortality
  • Wade is working on creating a working theory of what fibers could be used in conjunction with the repopulation of the microbiome
    • A dietary agnostic

-Matt’s hunger management tactics…26:23

  • Sleep is crucial
    • Bad sleep — craving more food 
  • Decaf coffee and salt
  • Carbonated drinks increase hunger
  • Smaller plates
    • People will eat in proportion to the plate size
    • Ben controls his appetite with small dishes

-Testing lab in Bosnia…32:47

-Matt’s current diet…34:47 

  • At 15, he started a ketogenic diet and was told he was fat
  • Started running and Atkin’s diet — went from 190 to 147 in six months
  • Got into bodybuilding and discovered an anabolic diet from Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale
    • Cyclical ketogenic diet
    • Carb refeed a couple of days a week
    • Went from 147 to 235 in three years
    • Training 12 times a week
  • At the moment, focusing on rebuilding nutritional strategy in a completely new way
    • A lot of influence and methodologies from the book The Ultimate Nutrition Bible (use code BEN10 to save 10%)
    • Has a saturated fat genetic issue
    • Replacing the fat with olive oil
    • Increasing fiber intake
    • Optimizing nutrient and micronutrient intake
  • Genetic issues with zinc and selenium
  • Doing experiments on algae oil and krill oil
    • Trying to break down into fatty acids
    • What are the good fatty acids
    • What are the bad fatty acids
  • Ben is eating 200 to 300 grams of carbohydrates while restricting most of the rest of the day
    • Based on concerns about plaque scan and calcium scan scores and genetics components
    • A more Mediterranean approach — less butter, less lard

-Developing their own testing and app…39:28

  • Working on their own test
  • 23andme
    • You are getting raw data
  • Working on an app that's focused on nutrition and supplements that give people powerful insights
  • The value of testing 
    • One of the greatest investments anyone can make in their health
    • Adding an extra decade, two, or three of life
    • Making corrective actions years or decades before alarm bells are ringing
  • An at-home salivary test
  • Ultimate Nutrition app
    • Personalized recommendations based on your goals
    • Simple and easy as possible to have a truly personalized nutritional experience
    • Going to have a trainer feature
  • Cronometer calorie counter
  • Matt uses the Ultimate Nutrition app
  • Ultimate Nutrition (use code BEN10 to save 10%)
    • Recipes
    • Nutritional diets

-Wade’s current diet…42:08

  • Eat the same thing every day, all week long
    • Keeps the calorie deficit at about 1,000 a day with 1 spike day
  • Goes on a holiday in December and eats whatever he wants
  • After Christmas, spends the next six weeks trying to get his weight back
  • Likes food tours where he gets exposed to things that are outside of his range
  • Before, he was very restrictive and never deviated from his diet
  • Ben doesn’t restrict his food when traveling, just walks a lot
    • Averages about 25,000 steps a day when traveling

-Ben is selling his complete bio-hacked home in Spokane…38:52

-Calories in, calories out…45:11

  • Two camps:
    1. Calories in, calories out is a law of thermodynamics that no one escapes from
    2. There are all these variables: hormones, leptin, etc.
  • Both are right
  • Probably, the number one variable is anabolism — the set of metabolic pathways that build molecules from smaller units, requiring energy in the process
  • Ingested calories, whether it's carbs, proteins, fats, or fiber — have to be dealt with
  • When you're consuming protein, your body has to break down 25% to 30% of the calories consumed to metabolize that protein
    • Net calories are lower if you consume a lot of protein
  • With fiber, only about half the calories are absorbed
    • In terms of being satiated, and not overconsuming food, it's a great strategy
  • Bodybuilders experiment
    • Had a dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry scan (DEXA) — a medical imaging technique that measures bone density
    • Doubled their calorie intake to 7,000–8,000 calories a day
    • Repeated the DEXA scan after 10 days
    • Lost body fat despite gaining 15–20 pounds of weight
    • They cracked their anabolism through the roof
  • Natural ways to improve anabolism
    • Sleep
    • Consuming mTOR-activating meals at least four times a day — mTOR (mechanistic target of rapamycin) is a protein kinase that regulates cell growth, cell proliferation, and cell survival
    • Weightlifting
  • A pound of lean muscle tissue burns about 300% more calories than a pound of fat
  • Experiment with NAD
    • Brain training and doing five days of 750 milligrams of NAD
  • Koniver Wellness
  • A friend did the Camino trail in Europe — activity level is very important
    • Walking approximately 20 to 25 miles every single day
    • Massive pasta meals and wine every night, huge dinners
    • Lost weight — gets back 25 pounds lighter
  • NAD patch by Ion Layer
  • Ben’s hack for mitochondrial dysfunction:
  • Activity is crucial for calories out
  • Podcast with Thomas Delauer:
  • Ben is working on his book
    • Doesn’t go to the gym much
    • Exercising with a 16 kg kettlebell (use code GREENFIELD to save 10%)
    • 4-pound hand weights
    • CAROL bike 5–10 minute bursts (use code BEN to save $100)
  • A prototype supplement: Brown Fat Cap 
    • Exposure to air conditioning is enough to activate it
    • Lowers blood sugar because of the shivering
    • Cold exposure, both from heat loss and brown fat activation
    • Really potent brown fat cap prototype
  • Proteolytic enemas are the ultimate thing
    • Do enemas with MassZymes (use code BEN10 to save 10%)

-And much more…

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Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

Matt Gallant and Wade T. Lightheart:

– Podcasts:

– Books:

– Other Resources:

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