[Transcript] – Protecting Against The Damaging Effects Of Travel, Ozone Treatments For Longevity, Stacking Stem Cells With NAD & Exosomes, & More With Darshan Shah, MD.

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Articles, Transcripts

July 6, 2023

From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/anti-aging-podcasts/darshan-shah-nexthealthmaui/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:13] Podcast Sponsors

[00:05:07] Who is Darshan Shah

[00:07:03] Why Dr. Shah opened up his new facility in Maui

[00:14:13] What's the protocol at Next Health and why do they start with ozone treatments?

[00:19:51] Stem cell treatments that Ben had on the facility

[00:23:07] The link between exosomes and mRNA

[00:29:06] Sleep and jetlag issues

[00:33:55] What are some of the cooler biohacking technologies coming down the pipeline

[00:38:36] What are some of the non-negotiable things you can do to turn back biological aging?

[00:44:13] How hard is it to find stem cell treatments?

[00:46:18] The gold standard protocol for a longevity retreat at Next Health Maui

[00:48:10] Closing the Podcast

[00:49:15] End of Podcast

[00:49:52] Disclaimer

Ben:  My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Darshan:  There's different ways of getting stem cells as you know. You can do either autologous stem cells or allogenic sometimes. So, the autologous ones, you can get mesenchymals from your fat, hematopoietic ones from your bone marrow. What we find is that most people don't want to go through that little liposuction procedure or bone marrow procedure. So–

Ben:  I don't want to get a whole drilled in my hip in Hawaii.

Darshan:  Exactly, exactly. And, not only that but when we take your own stem cells from you, you're young and you're super healthy but a lot of people are getting these treatments, a little bit older, these are older stem cells, they already experience some level of stem cell exhaustion. So, they're not as effective. And so, we like the umbilical cells because they're from brand new umbilical cord blood that's been donated. So, they're new stem cells.

Ben:  Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

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Well, folks you have probably if you've been a podcast listener for, gosh since what, 2018, Darshan?

Darshan:  '18.

Ben:  When I first connected with you guys at Next Health, I stumble across this facility, I think it might have been my friend Khalil from SunLife who's telling me about this whitewashed super slick biohacking age reversal kind of compound in Beverly Hills. And, he's like, “Dude, you got to go check out this place. It's slick. It's clean. It feels like you walked into some medical clinic on the Star Trek spaceship or whatever.” I'm not– 

Darshan:  That's what you called it, you called it the Star Trek.

Ben:  The enterprise. And so, since then, I've been to that Next Health, I've been to the new one up in West Hollywood. And, every time cryotherapy and HBOT and IVs and it's kind of like biohackers health enthusiast paradise. So anyways, Dr. Darshan Shah, if you're listening in who's sitting with me here today has recently picked up Next Health, started to expand internationally, and put up this slick place in Maui where we are at right now. And, it's pretty amazing. I just got done with the ozone IV. It started to hit my system. Now, I'm coming out of that NuCalm session. I'm feeling good.

Anyways, just a real quick thing before we dive in. If you're listening in, you can go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/NextHealthMaui. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/NextHealth, good luck spelling the word Maui. You can Google or GPT that, it'll help you. I believe it's M-A-U-I, but–

Darshan:  That's correct.

Ben:  But, these Hawaiian spellings always threw me off. And, at BenGreenfieldLife.com/ NextHealthMaui is where we'll keep the shownotes. I'll link to, what have we done, two other episodes before, I think?

Darshan:  Two other episodes, so our third one.

Ben:  Yeah, we've done two other episodes. You're not still running a podcast, are you?

Darshan:  We are, yeah. We're going to restart it here pretty soon. We took a little break for COVID, but we're going to get back on.

Ben:  Your pod faded.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  We pod faded, unfortunately.

Ben:  Okay. Alright, cool.

So, I mean, I got to ask. Why Maui? Why'd you start here?

Darshan:  Yeah. Combination of different factors. So, Next Health, we've been growing. Nationally, we're in New York. We're in Los Angeles. And then, now we have some internationally licensed deal, but what I really wanted to do was kind of combine the basics of health and wellness, diet, exercise, mindfulness, all the stuff that you get here.

Ben:  Mai Tais.

Darshan:  Virgin Mai Tais, low sugar with the advanced longevity technology that we bring to the table as well. And so, this place was really on the map and I think four seasons was looking to do something different to kind of complement the response. So, they approached us at Next Health and we're like, “Let's do it.” And, they gave us this beautiful space here. And, I thought it'd be a great way to combine kind of the soft stuff with the longevity technology all in one trip. And so, that's why we're here.

Ben:  Well, I walked in and the first sign in the lobby said Sleep IV. It's like Sleep IV, I think it's jet lag IV too.

Darshan:  Jet lag IV, yeah.

Ben:  Which I believe my wife's getting tomorrow. And so, it's perfect because you get a bunch of people traveling in here and you can just mainline nutrients into them and then we'll get into more advanced stuff, which actually I want to pick your brain about because some of the ozone exosome stem cell stuff can be kind of confusing.

But, I think you hopped on a good point. I sometimes tell people when they go to get stem cells, look, you're traveling, your circadian rhythms off, you're disconnected from the planet Earth typically, flying 40,000 feet above Earth in a metal tube, it gets where you're going, you're typically staying in some room you're unfamiliar with, you need to do things to actually prime your body to get the most value out of your stem cell protocol.

Darshan:  Right.

Ben:  And, when I tell them that, tell them get sunlight, do earthing and grounding, get into some water, go walk and get fresh air, get some sleep. If you have access to red light and hyperbaric and stuff, do that. But, even something as simple as nature time is important. Were you thinking about that as far as the beach out here, the water, just the elements because Hawaii is it's like Garden of Eden-esque in way. Yeah, there's a lot of tourists running around but still, it's got this raw earthy vibe to it.

Darshan:  Oh, yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, you mentioned two important things there. One, travel I think is one of the most toxic damaging things you can do to your body. You're up there, EMFs, radiations, circadian rhythm is off, like you mentioned. And so, when you get to a place like this, it is kind of the perfect environment to reset all that. But, the trip getting here is really damaging, so how do we mitigate for that? And then, I come here for a week on end sometimes and just all the things you said, I just get my biology in a really good state by doing things like grounding, getting into the water, all these things, and it's the perfect combo. You come here and you can then prime your body for stem cells, exosomes, et cetera, while you're here. And, the nice thing is I think a lot of people are vacationing now not to go out and party but just to get a break from their crazy life.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  And so, I think a lot of this wellness retreats is a huge concept now and a lot of people come here to the Four Seasons to make that happen. It feels like a perfect one-two.

Ben:  It's kind of a thing in the U.S. now, people are starting to avoid alcohol in droves, which I kind of like. I mean, it's obviously more, I think, when it comes to liver risk, cancer risk, dementia, et cetera, even though I still drink a couple times a week and I had a fantastic Mai Tai served out of a pineapple last night. I even think when we look at a lot of these street drugs like heroin and cocaine or you look at some popular recreational drugs, say cannabis or psilocybin or whatever, arguably some of the popular entheogens are safer than alcohol on par with heroin and cocaine for some of the damage that it does. And so, I'm starting to see fewer and fewer people drink, and more and more people would be like, “Oh, I'm going to have some biohacked cocktail or I'm going to have ketones or I'm going to get an IV or I'm going to figure out other ways to spin the dial in the evening.” And so, I think that it's kind of cool that you can kind of do something like this and not just go to Hawaii, all joking aside, to drink, which a lot of people do.

Darshan:  Absolutely, yeah. And, I think too you're seeing a lot of alcohol alternatives coming out now where you still get that fun social feeling of picking up a cool-looking drink and bringing it to your mouth and drinking it but there's no alcohol in it.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  And so, I think the Four Seasons actually does a really good job at their alternative drinks, the virgin cocktails but just making–

Ben:  My kids had one last night. Have you tried the ketone, one is the keto all–

Darshan:  No. Have a keto cocktail?

Ben:  Actually, I had an interview come out last week at the time we're recording this where the guy who runs KetoneAid.

Darshan:  Oh, okay.

Ben:  They've got Moscow Mule, pina colada, champagne. They just launched a beer that's surprisingly close to beer. They've got gin tonic and it's all 1,3-butanediol, which is the ketone that when they were doing research on the performance-enhancing effects of ketone esters, they had beta-hydroxybutyrate bound to 1,3-butanediol, which is what you hear about all the Tour de France cyclists, DARPA and stuff using for quelling appetite, going for long periods of time, increasing endurance, et cetera. But when they cleaved the ester bond and just had 1,3-butanediol left over, the rodent models that they tested it on were kind of stumbling around the laboratory almost like they were inebriated.

Darshan:  Wow.

Ben:  So, this one company KetoneAid, they're like, “Well, there's no toxic acetaldehyde side effects of alcohol, it's just a ketone and arguably it's even healthy for you.” So, they started making these drinks. They sent me their first batch almost a year ago and I tried a few kind of sort of liked it. And, the more research I did, the more I started try them, experiment them, mix them in cool mugs with electrolytes and ice and a squeeze of lime a little garnish. And now, like I said, I have a glass of wine maybe two nights a week now and almost every night I'm drinking ketones and it's amazing because you get that same–you feel a little buzz, you get a little socially lubricated, you feel as though it kind of relaxes you at the end of the day. It has that GABAergic inhibitory neurotransmitter effect.

And, the other cool thing is alcohol for many people makes them hungry, ketones make you not hungry. What I do is I assign my sons a book report every couple of weeks. So, in the evening when we gather for dinner, we talk about their book chapter and what they learned that day. And, while they tell me all about their book chapter, I'll make myself a little ketone cocktail. It's a nightly thing for me. It's amazing.

Darshan:  That's amazing. What a great routine.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  No alcohol.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

Darshan:  I'm helping this company called Kin.

Ben:  Oh, I've heard of Kin.

Darshan:  Yeah, great. But, they actually put adaptogens in the drink and get a little bit of a buzz and you get socially lubricated, you feel great but zero alcohol. It's another great alternative.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, you got to wonder how many people are actually mixing with vodka or tequila. I have to admit I have some Kin bottles at home and I was like, “What happens if you put a little tequila in this?” Yeah, best of both worlds. And then, finally, I did do hyperbaric this morning.

Darshan:  Oh, you did? Alright, great.

Ben:  I did. I swam 30 feet down underneath the water with the fishies for 20 minutes up and down. So, I was super primed for the ozone idea.

Darshan:  I love it.

Ben:  That's one I wanted to ask you. I just got done with an hour of what you call 10-Pass ozone.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  When you guys bring people in here, you actually have a menu of ozone stem cells, exosomes, NAD, et cetera. I want to start with the ozone. What's the protocol and why do you start with the ozone?

Darshan:  Yeah. So, we do a 10-Pass ozone here. For those of you don't know what ozone is, is where we remove 250 CCs of your blood, we expose it to ozone, which is O3, and then we put that same 250 CCs back into you. So, it's not like we're taking a lot of blood out and then putting it back in later. So, it's a super comfortable treatment. You didn't feel bad when you had it done at all, right?

Ben:  No, I feel safe. I did the NuCalm. You guys have the NuCalm here so I just did a 40-minute NuCalm, yeah.

Darshan:  Perfect combo, NuCalm and ozone. And, the ozone being exposed to your blood does a lot of different things. It reduces inflammation, it primes your immune system, it can actually kill bacteria, fungi, viruses in your blood, et cetera. So, it's an extremely rejuvenating treatment but it's also been used a lot in the longevity circles as well now, so we're seeing a lot of people using it for longevity treatments. And, it works right. And so, we start with that because it's kind of a detoxifying relaxing treatment that you can do. And, you can do it up to three times in the week since most people come here for a week or do it every other day. And then, it kind of just primes your system for moving on to stem cells and exosomes. It reduces inflammation mainly.

So, there's different ways of doing ozone and stem cells. One way is we can do a treatment of ozone, which primes your system for the stem cells and then people can do one, two, or three stem cell sessions after that. Or, another way to do it, some people actually want to do ozone and then stem cells, ozone-stem cells, ozone-stem cells. So, there's different ways of doing it. And, one of the best things about coming here is we have a medical team here that can evaluate you. They can see what your goals are, kind of what your current state of being is and figure out the best treatment protocol for you.

Ben:  Do you guys actually do–because I think it is up in LA, do you do testing like gene testing or blood testing or anything like that?

Darshan:  Absolutely, yeah. So, one of the big things that we do is diagnostic testing because we want to know what's going on with your state of biology and everyone's so different. So, we do blood testing, genetic testing and we take kind of a functional medicine view towards it. So, we're doing a lot of advanced testing as well, things like your gut microbiome, we're testing your micronutrient levels, we're testing for heavy metals. All these things that affect your current state of health.

Ben:  Did people do that before they come down so you know what their values are when they're coming in?

Darshan:  Yeah. Sometimes I do. Sometimes we do it all in LA or New York.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  But then, there are people that discover us here in Maui and we can actually draw the blood panels here as well.

Ben:  Oh, that's convenient. Yeah. I've messed around the ozone oil suppositories. What I feel after the IV is you get this clean surge in energy. Sometimes people tell you not to do too close to bedtime because you get such a big surge in energy and I love it and it sticks with you. You sleep better. You feel you kind of jumped out of bed a little bit better. I don't know all the mechanisms of action that are going on. I imagine there's some amount of just tissue oxygenation that might occur. And then, a lot of people that deal with mold, yeast, fungus, some of these stealth co-infections like Epstein-Barr and Lyme. And, I don't know how many people are coming in here with that kind of stuff or how many people have it and don't know it and get the ozone and then feel better.

With the suppositories, I've used those before especially when traveling when I don't have access to IVs, et cetera, and I feel maybe a 30, 40%-ish comparison, a slight uptick in energy and you put them up the Wazoo in the morning, do a handstand for a minute or whatever and let it soak in and–

Darshan:  But, still something [00:18:02] _____.

Ben:  Yeah. So, there's something to it and they're typically encapsulated in an olive oil medium.

Darshan:  Well, the other thing about ozone is that it's the ultimate hormetic treatment as well. So, you're causing some stress to your cells, your cells are resetting and they're getting healthier at a cellular level just using the process of hormesis. And so, ozone is really good at providing that as well.

Ben:  And, why do you do 10-Pass?

Darshan:  So, we do 10-Passes just so we can get the most amount of treatment over the course of an hour while you're here. So, 10-Passes usually takes about an hour.

Ben:  So, explain the difference between a 3-Pass and a 10-Pass. 

Darshan:  Yeah, a 3-Pass, we're only exposing 750 CCs of your blood to the ozone. With a 10-Pass, we're doing 2,500 CCs of your blood.

Ben:  So, it's 250 CCs each pass.

Darshan:  Yes.

Ben:  And so, every time the nurse makes that adjustment on my arm, it's a new pass of the ozone.

Darshan:  It's a new pass. So, it's going that little canister for exposing it and then we're putting it back in and we're starting again.

Ben:  Why some people get hypoglycemic? Because you guys had a sheet that came out to me yesterday, it said, “Be sure to eat a solid breakfast.” So, I had coconut syrup, gluten-free macadamia nut pancakes with roasted bananas on top.

Darshan:  Solid.

Ben:  Coconut flakes, cacao nibs, celery juice, and a little side of sweet potato with scrambled eggs.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, I have a nice amount of carbs for breakfast. I felt pretty good because usually I was telling you, I'm usually kind of keto for breakfast. And so, I have this huge surge of energy, but what's going on with the hypoglycemic?

Darshan:  So, there's really nothing about the ozone treatment itself that makes you hypoglycemic, it's just that some people faint. They get a little bit of faint when they get an IV put in.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  And, hypoglycemic can sometimes contribute to that. There's nothing about the treatment itself that makes you hypoglycemic, we just want to get people at a good state so when we put the IV in, they won't feel that fainting response.

Ben:  Okay, got it.

So ideally, you come in here, you get charged up with 10-Pass ozone, and then tomorrow you've got me moving into stem cell treatment.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  What kind of stem cells are we using for this tomorrow?

Darshan:  So tomorrow, we're using umbilical cord drive stem cells and so we're going to do them IV on you.

Ben:  Okay. Where are you getting the stem cells?

Darshan:  So, we're getting the stem cells from a very trusted manufacturer that we use in Kansas City Missouri and they're excellent. We evaluate all the stem cell providers out there and we go actually visit their labs, we look at their certifications, et cetera. So, these are umbilical cord-derived stem cells.

Ben:  And, why do you go with umbilical cord?

Darshan:  So, there's different ways of getting stem cells as you know. You can do either autologous stem cells or allogeneic sometimes. So, the autologous ones, you can get mesenchymals from your fat, hematopoietic ones from your bone marrow. What we find is that most people don't want to go through a little liposuction procedure or bone marrow procedure. So–

Ben:  I don't want to get a whole drilled in my hip in Hawaii.

Darshan:  Exactly, exactly. And, not only that but when we take your own stem cells from you–you're young and you're super healthy, but a lot of people are getting these treatments. They're a little bit older. These are older stem cells. They already experience some level of stem cell exhaustion so they're not as effective. And so, we like the umbilical cells because they're from brand new umbilical corded blood that's been donated, so they're new stem cells.

Ben:  I think some people are confused about this. They picture stem cells as an injection into a joint, but you're literally just going systemically full-body IV.

Darshan:  Right, exactly. And, there's different ways of doing it. You can do them IV. You can do them into joints. For longevity and full body healing, we like to go IV.

Ben:  For people who haven't done this before, how long does a systemic full-body stem cell IV take?

Darshan:  It's really quick. It's 15-20 minutes.

Ben:  Oh, wow.

Darshan:  Yeah, it's super quick.

Ben:  Okay. So, when you get them shipped down here from Missouri, do you guys got to keep them super cold like is there a risk of them going bad?

Darshan:  Yes, they go in a cryo-freezing chamber. Right, exactly. They're shipped on dry ice and they go into a freezer chamber.

Ben:  Okay. Now, stem cells, kind of like you stacked the NuCalm come with the ozone for me today. What are you stacking the stem cells with?

Darshan:  So, with the stem cells, we're stacking NAD and exosomes both. And so, the NAD as you know, it's a precursor to ATP. So, you're going to get that right after the stem cells. And, that's a whole other treatment, but we like to stack exosomes with it because exosomes are the communication, the packets that are within your stem cells. So now, you can get the stem cells but you're also going to get the extra communication packages that go within the stem cells with it.

Ben:  Where do you get exosomes?

Darshan:  Same place.

Ben:  Okay. So, do you have to screen those as well because there's a risk of getting the wrong kind of exosomes?

Darshan:  Very, very low risk. The main problem that could occur is with the manufacturer that either ships you something that doesn't really have any exosome in the product or stem cells on the product or it's not refrigerated properly. And, just like any IV or any product that you put inside of you, if it's not refrigerated properly and it has a potential growing bacteria in the vial, you can get bacteria in the vial. So, you want to make sure none of that's happening. It's fully sterile. It's stored properly and you are getting the actual product that you're paying for.

Ben:  I hear a lot of people talk about exosomes and they use the term mRNA when they refer to exosomes. What's the link between exosomes and mRNA?

Darshan:  So, exosomes are packets within your stem cells, and all of your cells actually, that contains signaling molecules. Those signaling molecules can be mRNA, which are short pieces of RNA or they can be just little pieces of protein, they can be cytokines. These packages have all sorts of signaling molecules in them that are basically meant to signal surrounding cells into specific biological functions.

Ben:  And, where do they come from? How do you get exosomes?

Darshan:  Exosomes are from within cells, so they're actually extracted from within a stem cell.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  They're taken out of the stem cells and then they're multiplied and put into a product.

Ben:  Okay. So, rather than me getting an umbilical stem cell IV with the stem cells that I'm getting already having the exosomes that are naturally in them, it's almost like they're removing them first and expanding the count of the exosomes.

Darshan:  Yes.

Ben:  And then, the exosomes are administered separately from the umbilical stem cells, but the umbilical stem cells already have some exosomes in them.

Darshan:  Exactly, exactly. So, the umbilical stem cell, the entire cell has millions of packages of exosomes within them. But, these were taking the exosomes out and we're duplicating them so you have even more exosomes.

Ben:   Okay. With the NAD, is that before or after the stem cells with the exosomes?

Darshan:  It can actually be either way.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  NAD is kind of acting on a different cellular mechanism. It's helping your mitochondria produce energy.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  So, it's probably better to do it before or after, I would say maybe before, because then even the stem cells have more energy to work with.

Ben:  How come you use NAD because there's three other options I've heard of out there, nicotinamide right beside the NR, the NMN–was that nicotinamide mononucleotide? Yeah. And then, this new one, Tony Robbins initially told me about it when I interviewed him and Peter Diamandis. They wrote that book “Life Force” and they talked about NAD3.

Darshan:  Right.

Ben:  Have you heard of that one before?

Darshan:  There's all sorts of people manufacturing NAD and NMN now. And so, they're kind of branching off into specific NAD and NMN products. But, the thing about NMN and NR is those are taken orally. NAD is the IV form.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan: So, those are oral supplementation. The NAD is directly mainlined into you.

Ben:  Has anybody ever gotten NMN or NR IVs to–

Darshan:  Not that I've heard of, no. Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. I guess it gets converted via, I believe, the processing in the liver into NAD after which it makes into the cells but you're shortcutting that and going straight into the bloodstream with NAD, which would arguably be the best way to increase. It's less convenient obviously than just take capsule. But, that's the best way to get full-body delivery.

Darshan:  Exactly. Just like when you eat food and you get the micronutrients through your gut or take a supplement for example, it still has to go through your gut and then process your liver, et cetera. NAD IV is just going right to all your cells.

And, there's also a lot of talk about your microbiome affecting the NR and also the NMN that you take as well and then converting that in your microbiome so that the cells have an easier time absorbing it too. So, there's a lot of research being done, a lot of controversy as well, but for me, I just feel NAD IV is not something you're going to do every day, but you can take a supplement every day. So, I do a little bit of both. I take a supplement every day NMN and I just take NAD whenever I have access to it.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. I started using that NAD3 stuff taking it orally, but then I probably get an IV once every couple months of NAD. And, I started using the patches for a long-haul plane flight or a sleep-deprived day. I found NAD and the other molecule I've seen research for combating the effects of sleep deprivation is creatine. And, if I take creatine and NAD on a sleep-deprived day, I think it's because obviously a lot of cell repair mechanisms take place during sleep and you're almost simulating that. I'm not endorsing people short sleep and just pop NAD, but if you're in a situation where you're sleep-deprived, I found NAD stacked with creatine helps a ton.

Darshan:  Yeah. I think that's a great combo of those two together. There's so much research on creatine.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  If anyone has any doubts that creatine is causing all sorts not just muscle gain but also brain function improvement, but basically cellular improvement in almost every cell that they should look into the research. It's extremely valuable.

Ben:  Poor methylators too.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  If you're homozygous for some of these methylation genes and you aren't methylating properly, creatine appears to help a lot with that.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  And dropping the homocysteine levels, the inflammatory homocysteine levels that you see in people who have [00:27:58] _____–

Darshan:  If you have a high homocysteine, definitely creatine is a great supplement just 5 grams a day, it really helps reduce it.

Ben:  Yeah. What about intranasal NAD? Have you messed around that much?

Darshan:  I've used intranasal NAD. I'm sure it's working. That's a great way to absorb. It's through your nasal mucosa. I just have a hard time finding it so I don't have it around me all the time. And, I'm lucky going to Next Health, I live right a little bit away from it, I just go and–

Ben:  Yeah, you know a guy. What's the current legality of all this stuff? Is it pretty much totally above the board no risk for umbilical stem cells, NAD, exosomes, there's any stuff getting crack down on?

Darshan:  Yeah, there's a lot of crackdown by the FDA right now. We're constantly evaluating, constantly working with our manufacturers to make sure they're all using good manufacturing practices, et cetera. We're really making sure that we have all our Ts cross and Is dotted, but it's a constant battle right now. More in the United States than any other country. The FDA has a lot of regulations around stem cells and exosomes as well.

Ben:  I wanted to ask you about another IV, some of the sleep and jet lag stuff. I think I'm not a special snowflake in that. I struggle with sleep when I travel.

Darshan:  Yeah, for sure.

Ben:  I've mostly solved that through high-dose melatonin CBD, and then not to toot my own horn but I helped formulated sleep product for Kion. So, I do Kion Sleep CBD melatonin suppository. I'm usually pretty good. But, what's the thing with the IVs, a sleep IV or a jet leg IV?

Darshan:  Right. I mean, same thing like you're so nutritionally depleted when you get to wherever you're going, and especially if you're sleep deprived is basically providing with all the nutrients, again, that your body is lacking to help get your cells back into a state of health.

Ben:  Do you need to do it right before bed or can you do it anytime?

Darshan:  No, you can do it anytime. Yup, anytime. The effect will last until the end of the evening.

Ben:  Is there magnesium in the Sleep IV?

Darshan:  Yes, there sure is. Yup.

Ben:  Anything else special in there?

Darshan:  Just the rest of the micronutrients, yeah. There's nothing else super special about it, but magnesium is a big part of it. Have you tried the Timeshifter app, by the way?

Ben:  Is that the one that anticipates where you're going and tells you your sleeping cycles and light exposure cycles before you go?

Darshan:  Yes, yes.

Ben:  Okay. So, I've heard of it. I think I might have it download to my phone. I travel so freaking much and have this robust family life at home like set family dinners and my work life schedule. I have a hard time preparing for travel unless it's a big international trip and if I'm keynoting at a conference overseas and it's like, okay, I really, really got to be on top of things because I'm going to be sleep-deprived, talk in the morning, I'll start to do some of that light hacking stuff. But, it's hard when you're running the family at home and you have certain dinner times to all of a sudden adjust your schedule three, four, five days in advance.

Darshan:  Yeah. I haven't even tried it yet but I recommended it to a few people that are internationally flying and they swear by it. They're like, “This is a game changer.” It really does work.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  And, as you know, your circadian rhythm is a lot of things. It's not just when you sleep, it's also your exposure to light is when you're eating, et cetera. And so, like you said, this app just moves everything over and gives you notifications of when you need to do those things and it seems to work pretty well.

Ben:  I get it. I have kind of this intuitive approach to long-haul travel. I'm like, look, if I just sleep as much as possible while I'm traveling, no matter what, I'm going to be pretty good when I get to where I'm going. Even if I'm not on their schedule and I'm sleeping all night in the plane and I get there at 8:00 p.m. and I got to go to sleep again, I'll do that. I just log as much sleep as possible. So, I usually play NuCalm on the plane.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  I'll usually use one of those melatonin suppositories or high-dose melatonin on the plane. I'll use an adaptogen like reishi, typically a little bit of CBD and I will sleep as much as possible on the plane. I rarely turn on the entertainment screen. Occasionally, I'll watch a quick show, a 40-minute cooking show, or something that's not a full-on movie. I sleep as much as possible. I don't even worry about if I get there and again, I got to go to bed again barely anything at all. I slam those ketone esters.

Darshan:  The ketone esters, yup.

Ben:  The ketone esters, 20 grams of amino acids, and then I'm just out sleep mask, noise-blocking headphones. And so, it kind of sort of breaks the rules that you hear out there about, oh keep yourself awake on the plane if it's going to be nighttime when you get to where you're going and try to eat a meal on the plane that aligns with the meal currently being eaten in the times and where you're going but I'm doing it, I just sleep as much as possible.

Darshan:  Yeah, yeah. That's smart. I mean that worked for you. That's amazing, yeah.

The other thing I wanted to mention about the sleep ideas, we also have taurine in there. Are you doing any taurine?

Ben:  No.

Darshan:  Yeah, that's another micronutrient to consider.

Ben:  Is that one that creatine is something that gets decreased in response to sleep deprivation or jet lag or something like that?

Darshan:  Yes, exactly. Exactly, yeah.

Ben:  Do you mix it with Red Bull and vodka?

Darshan:  Full of great ideas. 

Ben:  Mai Tai in jet lag. You know what's funny is the Red Bull-vodka thing, I think they got outlawed in some nightclubs in Europe like people have strokes and heart attacks, the mix of the caffeine. I don't think the taurine have anything into this but it was the high-dose caffeine, alcohol, a lot of times the bright light, sleep-deprived scenario. What's funny is that has been shoved under the bus but then people can just like it's still kosher and kind of cool to get an espresso martini.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Which is basically the same thing, right?

Darshan:  The same, exactly.

Ben:  Boatloads of caffeine, sugar, and alcohol.

Darshan:  It's so crazy. Over here I was at the bar, everyone four women had this espresso martini, three other guys. And, I'm like [00:33:51] _____.

Ben:  It's the worst especially when you have these ketone alternatives.

Are you guys planning here in the Four Seasons Maui location to add some of the type of stuff you have up in LA like hyperbaric or cryo?

Darshan:  Absolutely. So, the next phase of what we're doing here is to actually build a little biohacking center and it's what I call the Longevity Triad. So, we're going to put the cold therapy, so either cryotherapy or a cold plunge, some type of heat therapy like a sauna, and then the hyperbaric oxygen.

Ben:  Yeah, heat therapy outside, man. I was just in the gym this morning.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  You don't need a sauna. Go with the crop. What do you think are some of the cooler biohacking technologies you've seen coming on the pipeline? I was showing you a sick hyperbaric chamber this morning, by the way, it's a four-person. Bunch of people can be in there almost partying in a hyperbaric chamber.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  What are some things– 

Darshan:  Yeah, I really like hyperbaric. So, I'm getting a hyperbaric for my house. We have hyperbaric chambers at Next Health. I think hyperbaric is something that is often overlooked in longevity circles, but I think there's been some studies out now with something about hyperbaric, DHEA, and I think growth hormone like coming back biological aging. But, I think hyperbaric by itself, we are actually going to start a study where we're going to be measuring biological aging, methylation tests like a Horvath clock and see how much hyperbaric oxygen actually affects that.

Ben:  That'll be interesting.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Because the hyperbaric studies I've seen so far are all looking at rate of telomere shortening, which is kind of sketchy. Even some of the more accurate labs like SpectraCell, right now what you were referring to the methylation clocks, the TruAge Diagnostics, the Horvath clock that give you a status of how much you've aged, not your rate of aging is but what your actual biological age is.

Darshan:  Right.

Ben:  I'd be more interested to see what hyperbaric does to that.

Darshan:  Right.

Ben:  I think the DHEA growth hormone study was separate from the hyperbaric. And, that was one of the most profound studies I've seen in the past five years as far as the age reversal or longevity-enhancing effect. I don't take DHEA or growth hormone but I use colostrum, which is kind of a pretty powerful growth hormone precursor. And then, for the DHEA component, I don't do much as far as that's concerned but I think the colostrum helps out a little bit, and then a couple of times a year, I use those peptide bioregulators now.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Have you looked into those much?

Darshan:  I have, I have, yeah. Which ones you're using?

Ben:  Well, there's 20 of them with all these crazy Russian names like [00:36:22] _____ but you don't take them every day because it's 20, 30 capsules or an injection but you two–I think that Dr. Khavinson, the primary Russian longevity researcher who looked at a lot of this peptide bioregulators which are very short peptides that travel to each specific organ to allow rejuvenation of that particular organ, I think his gold standard protocol was twice a year for some something like 10 days.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  And so, it's a lot of capsules or mess around with the insulin syringe and the injectable peptides, but I think if you look at some of the Russian research, it's literally decades of research behind this stuff and in humans.

Darshan:  Yeah, they've done a lot. Epithalon, I think, was one of the main ones that they started with. And, it's incredible, the methylation clock reversal that happens with epithalon as well. So, I mean, there still needs to be a lot more research done on it and it's always I think the sample size like five, six people, they're not huge studies. So, definitely need larger randomized control studies but really encouraging information there.

Ben:  Yeah, it is. And, you look at some of these more prolific biohackers and follow some of the routines whether it's, whatever, David Sinclair or there's a guy named Bryan Johnson right now has put together a fantastic Blueprint website. I'll probably interview him soon. Dave Asprey, some of these guys. They're stacking a lot. I mean, extra virgin olive oil and dark chocolate and red light and hyperbaric and peptide bioregulators and the stem cells, the NAD, the ozone, et cetera. So, I think it's interesting that there's not one thing that moves the dial. It's very similar like Dale Bredesen's book, “The End of Alzheimer's.”

Darshan:  Exactly.

Ben:  It's always a multimodal approach.

Darshan:   It's a multiple thing. Right, exactly. And, we know even at a cellular level there are nine different processes going on that are causing that cell to age. And so, even at a cellular level, there's different places that you need to work to turn back biological aging. And so, there's going to be whenever we get to that point where we're able to actually turn back biological aging is going to be a multitude of different things not just one pill.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

For you personally, what do you think are the non-negotiables, like if you wake up on a typical day knowing everything you know and having access to seeing some of the latest technology that's coming out, you're talking about getting hyperbaric, what would be the non-negotiables for you for your own protocol?

Darshan:  I mean, absolutely what I always tell everyone when you come to Next Health and we sit down with you for a consultation, we don't even start talking about the longevity technology peptides, we don't start talking about any of this stuff, even hormone therapy until you have the basics covered. So, that's what I love about coming here is it's much easier to get the basics covered because you're going to sleep well all night, you're going to go outside in the morning, expose yourself to the sunlight, take a beach walk. You're going to eat–

Ben:  At 4:00 am if you're from the mainland.

Darshan:  Yeah, exactly. Right.

Ben:  I get more done in Hawaii by noon than back home just because, yeah, you're wide awake at 4:00 a.m.

Darshan:  Yeah, exactly. No, that is true until you get yourself regulated. But, yeah. And then, you're eating much better here, hopefully the food here is super healthy on point and you talk about a lot in your books as making sure your meat is well sourced, your fish comes from a good place, et cetera. And then, exercise, exercises I think built into the DNA of this place.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  They have an incredible gym here. They have lots of classes, yoga, et cetera, and meditation like calming your mind. So, once you get all that right, then we start talking about some of this longevity stuff.

And then, my level two then is to do some of these things like heat sauna therapy, cryotherapy, et cetera. And, once you start getting some of that worked into your routine because I really feel it has to be part of your routine. You can't just do something one time and then expect a year from now for your biological age to be reversed. That's unrealistic. It's got to be part of your routine. So, make heat sauna, cryotherapy, and whether you have a cryotherapy chamber or a cold plunge or you're just jumping in the ocean every day. I think that's super important.

And then, after that, the non-negotiables for me are going to be the hyperbaric chamber. I try to do that at least once a week. If I don't do a lot of IVs but if I'm having a week where my nutrition hasn't been on point or I've been traveling, I've been just working really hard and just running and I feel stressed, then I'll do an IV. So, I think IVs for me are a mainstay in my health routine. And then, NAD, once a month, I'll do NAD, sometimes I'll do it more if I need to or if I can do it more. And then, I'm starting to play around with some of the more not so well-researched stuff just trying it on myself that I think it's going to be helpful for me. So, I am doing stem cells and I'm starting to do something called total plasma exchange or therapeutic plasma exchange.

Ben:  Oh, you are? Interesting.

Darshan:  Yeah, therapeutic plasma exchange. Just work that into my routine and going to attempt to do that once a quarter if I can.

Ben:  Explain that to people with the therapeutic plasma exchanges.

Darshan:  Yeah. So, therapeutic plasma exchange is basically, it's somewhat ozone on steroids. Okay. So, what we're doing is we're removing your blood again. We are separating your blood in this machine that is basically a giant centrifuge, okay? And, it's separating your blood into plasma into the blood cells and the platelets. So, when you take a vial of blood and you spin it down for PRP, the plasma is on top, a little layer of platelets and then you have the blood in the bottom. So, that's basically what we're doing. So, when this machine separates your blood, we can take the plasma out completely and put your blood cells back in. So, you get all your red blood cells, your white blood cells put back in, but that plasma that's removed, that's where all the inflammatory cytokines live, the malformed proteins live, the toxins live, et cetera. So, we're totally removing your old plasma or your plasma that's basically shuttling these things around in your bloodstream all day while your liver and your kidneys are trying to catch up with eliminating it. We're removing it completely and we're replacing with brand new fresh albumin.

And, the reason we put albumin in is because number one, it maintains an oncotic pressure in your blood so you don't drop your blood pressure. You need protein in your blood to maintain your blood pressure. But then, the other thing that we're seeing with putting fresh albumin in is albumin binds a lot of these toxins and a lot of these proteins. So, with having fresh albumin in, you have brand new binding sites that can then go to your brain, go to your organs, and bind some of these toxins and these malformed proteins as well.

Ben:  Okay. Assuming I can't just see an egg white omelet, where's the albumin coming from?

Darshan:  The albumin is donated. It comes from, yeah, plasmapheresis done on humans that have donated their albumin.

Ben:  Does it have to be young humans that have been [00:43:24] _____ albumin in general–

Darshan:  No, it doesn't.

Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that because a lot of the talk around this comes with the young blood experiments like we heard about Peter Thiel–

Ben:  That's what people think. They're like, “Oh, you got some healthy young child that you're stealing blood from,” but this isn't the case.

Darshan:  Right. No, this is not the case at all. So, there's been a lot of research done on this actually. And, what's actually showing to be more beneficial is not the fact that you're actually taking blood or whatever plasma from someone young and putting it in yourself, that's not what's really working. What's really working is taking out the old stuff and getting rid of it. 

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  And replacing it with brand new fresh albumin. And, the albumin is basically it's not young plasma, we're not taking young blood and mixing it in with you, it's just protein, that's all it is and then we're putting in that back in your bloodstream.

Ben:  How hard is that? Is it super expensive hard to hunt down [00:44:16] _____–

Darshan:  So, it is very hard to hunt down right now because not a lot of people doing it. It's brand new in the longevity field. There have been some really good studies in Alzheimer's, slowing down the progression of Alzheimer's by 60%, which is incredible.

Ben:  I flew the two researchers who did that up to my house. We did a podcast on three years ago.

Darshan:  Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, it's going to be mind-blowing when this starts to become more mainstream and we really see Alzheimer's being slowed. But, there's studies in longevity now too actually turning around a lot of the biological markers of aging as well. So, it is difficult to find right now. We do it in our Los Angeles clinics.

Ben:  You guys do it at Next Health?

Darshan:  Yeah, we are doing it.

Ben:  I didn't know that.

Darshan:  Yeah, whenever you want to come back, we'll do it. 

Ben:  Totally threw your softball. I'd love to do that.

Darshan:  Yeah, yeah, you should come and check it out. It's pretty amazing. And, I just did it a few days ago, actually. I did a few days ago. And–

Ben:  How do you feel after you do it?

Darshan:  You feel fine just like you do with ozone. You get that burst of energy. You feel like you sleep incredible that night. And, just like with ozone, it reduces the amount of inflammatory factors in your bloodstream so I did stem cells right after that.

Ben:  Oh, wow.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, that one would be like when you could precurse before stem cells with.

Darshan:  Exactly.

Ben:  Wow. That's crazy. Is it super expensive to do plasma exchange?

Darshan:  Right now, it is because we actually have a physician that comes and does it for us that's a specialist in plasma exchange and dialysis. So, he's there, we have a whole team of people there. So, it is a little bit of a production so the cost is somewhere around $8,000 or so. But, as this stuff gets more and more mainstream–

Ben:  When I interviewed those researchers over my house, there's currently 40,000, so cost is coming down.

Darshan:  No, no, much lower. Yeah.

Ben:  Okay.

Darshan:  It's about 8,000. But I mean, as we get better and better and this technology is more available, it'll keep coming down in price.

Ben:  Do you think you guys would eventually have that here at the Four Seasons?

Darshan:  That's the goal. That's the goal is having all of our locations–

Ben:  That'd be crazy. [00:46:10] _____ you get full body oil change.

Darshan:  Exactly. It's like an oil change for your body. It's pretty amazing stuff.

Ben: Yeah, that's what I've heard described it as.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  Interesting.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, as far as the future of what this clinic looks like, you can introduce more biohacks. Right now, the gold standard protocol is you come down, you do ozone, you chase that with stem cells, NAD, and exosomes combined with grounding and earthing and doing the beach walks and getting out in the water and maybe getting a sleep IV at night to help with the sleep and that would be kind of the gold standard product.

Darshan:  That's the gold standard here right now. Yup.

Ben:  Yeah.

Darshan:  And, I think we can do that depending on how long your trip is. Most people come here for five to seven days, so we try to fit in at least three of these treatments in while you're here. And, it's a really great package. They just get away and you need to tie that in with all the rejuvenating stuff that we talked about with your diet and the sleep and what beach walks and hikes and the exercise and all that stuff. And, I think it works extremely well.

Ben:  Awesome, awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to how I feel. I might have to let people know after this podcast how I feel with doing the one-two combo, the ozone today.

Darshan:  Yeah.

Ben:  What do I have tomorrow? Stem cells, NAD, exosomes?

Darshan:  Yup, stem cells, NAD, exosomes, the whole thing–

Ben:   Some kind of massage tonight with my wife.

Darshan:  Yeah, there you go. We forgot about massage.

Ben:  For those of you listening, they put together a pretty cool packages here but I'm getting a massage with my wife which I'm kind of nervous about, Darshan, because she likes to talk to her massage therapist the whole time. My wife is a very kind person. She's incapable of sitting next to someone on an airplane or like last night next to the drunk girl at the bar without just talking to them the whole time. 

So, when I get a massage, I like to keep my mouth shut and tell the massage therapist, “Hey, I'm going to be up inside my head or sleeping, do your thing and I'll let you know if anything hurts or whatever.” And, my wife's just chatty Cathy the whole time. So, I might bring earplugs to my massage.

Darshan:  Or bring a NuCalm with you.

Ben:  Or bring the NuCalm.

Darshan:  Bring the NuCalm, right.

Ben:  Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a cool spot. I'm glad that you guys open up here. I'm glad I've been able to discover it. And, for people who would hear this podcast who want to come down and do it, I assume I can just put some links and contact information in the shownotes or people could just google Next Health Maui or whatever.

Darshan:  Yeah. And then, we'll set up the whole experience for you from the moment you arrive to the moment you go home. We can set up the entire longevity retreat for you. Is that what we like to call it? And yeah, anyone in our team can do that. So, just call us at Next Health and we can get all set up.

Ben:  Amazing. Okay. So, I'll put the shownotes at BenGreenfieldLife.com/NextHealthMaui, M-A-U-I. BenGreenfieldLife.com/NextHealthMaui. And, if you go to the shownotes, I'm going to also link to the other two podcasts that you and I did, Darshan, just because there's a lot more information about all the stuff that we got into and some other biohacking technology. So, stack this one, speaking of stacking with the other podcasts and your life will be better and hopefully your telomeres and all that crap will be shorter.

Darshan:  Longer, longer than it is.

Ben:  Or longer, longer. You're not sure, but hopefully. Once you have that pineapple Mai Tai.

Darshan:  Exactly.

Ben:  Thanks, man. Amazing, I love you.

Darshan:  Thank you so much. That was fun.

Ben: More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot.

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Darshan Shah, MD is a renowned surgeon, published author, tech entrepreneur, wellness specialist, and founder and CEO of Next Health (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 20% off on any one of the following: The Longevity Protocol, Stem Cells, or Exosomes).

 A graduate of esteemed institutions such as Mayo Clinic, Harvard Business School, and Singularity University, Dr. Shah has an expansive medical and business background that allows him to connect with patients on a more profound level.

He's also a three-peat guest who first appeared on the podcast in 2019 when he and I discussed the opening of his first Next Health clinic, and again later when the two of us co-hosted a panel during my Boundless book tour in 2020, where we delved into topics ranging from sleep biohacks to spiritual disciplines and parenting strategies.

Having performed over 10,000 surgeries, his dexterity and expertise are unquestionable, yet what really sets Darshan apart is his unwavering commitment to optimizing health and extending lifespan, a mission that finds its manifestation in Next Health.

Established with the aim to revolutionize the conventional approach to healthcare, Next Health focuses on preventive, personalized care and longevity.

Each clinic offers a comprehensive array of cutting-edge health services, from genetic testing to biohacking technologies, all tailored to meet individual health needs. By harnessing the power of modern medical advancements, Next Health's clinics are designed to not just treat disease but to foster optimal wellness and extend the healthy human lifespan. Since its inception, Next Health has steadfastly remained at the forefront of the healthcare revolution, guiding individuals on their journey to superior health and well-being.

Dr. Shah is a wellness specialist and an advocate for health optimization. He weaves these passions together to inspire a broader audience as a published author and through the innovative health solutions offered by Next Health. Engage with Dr. Shah and me in this episode to delve deeper into his fascinating journey and transformative approach to healthcare. This episode is chock full of awesome information such as how to protect yourself from the harmful effects of travel, optimizing mitochondrial function for longevity by stacking stem cells and NAD, Next Health’s new Maui Four Seasons location and how it came to be, and much more. Enjoy!

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-Dr. Darshan Shah…05:07

  • Next Health  (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 20% off on any one of the following: The Longevity Protocol, Stem Cells, or Exosomes).
  • Dr. Shah's new health facility in Maui
  • Next Health was introduced to Ben by Khalil Rafati

-Why Dr. Shah opened up his new facility in Maui…07:02 

-What’s the protocol at Next Health, and why do they start with ozone treatments?…13:37 

-Stem cell treatments that Ben had at the facility…19:50

  • Umbilical cord-derived stem cells
  • Why they chose umbilical cord stem cells
  • Different ways of getting stem cells
    • Autologous – from the same person, like mesenchymal from your fat or hematopoietic bone marrow
    • Allogeneic  – from another person
  • Via IV or injected into your joints
  • Systemic full-body stem cell IV is done in 15 to 20 minutes
  • Transported in a cryo-freezing chamber
  • Stacking stem cells with NAD and exosomes
  • Exosomes are sourced from the same place as the stem cells, from Missouri
  • Screening to prevent getting the wrong kind of exosomes

-The link between exosomes and mRNA…23:07

-Sleep and jetlag issues…29:05

-What are some of the cooler biohacking technologies coming down the pipeline…33:51

-What are some of the nonnegotiable things you can do to turn back biological aging?…38:10 

  • Turning back biological aging
  • Hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a non-negotiable for a typical day at Next Health (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 20% off on any one of the following: The Longevity Protocol, Stem Cells, or Exosomes)
  • Therapeutic plasma exchange is total plasma exchange
    • Removing the old plasma and replacing it with brand new fresh albumin
  • Therapeutic plasma exchange is a brand-new field in longevity
  • Plasmapheresis – obtaining plasma from blood
  • How it's working is taking out the old stuff and getting rid of it

-How hard is it to find locations that offer these treatments?…44:13 

  • Only very few people are doing it so it's hard to hunt down
  • Podcast with Dr. Mark Urdahl and Dr. Tom Ingoglia
  • Just like with ozone, it reduces the amount of inflammatory factors in the bloodstream
  • At this time, plasma exchange is still expensive at around $8000 but will go down as the treatment gets more mainstream
  • The goal is to have the treatment at all Next Health locations

-And much more…

  • Next Health (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 20% off on any one of the following: The Longevity Protocol, Stem Cells, or Exosomes)

Upcoming Events:

  • Disrupt Healthcare: September 29 – October 1, 2023

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Resources from this episode:

Darshan Shah:

 

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