May 20, 2023

From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/tim-gray-2-podcast/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:01:18] Podcast Sponsors

[00:06:08] Who is Tim Gray?

[00:19:07] Tim's daily routine

[00:27:08] Tim's fitness routine

[00:29:11] Podcast Sponsors

[00:33:16] cont. Tim’s fitness routine

[00:36:11] Interesting bio-hacking devices

[00:57:00] Diet and Supplements

[01:09:24] Health Optimisation Summit

[01:11:21] Use of AI in health optimization

[01:12:07] Closing the Podcast

[01:13:31] Upcoming Event

[01:14:55] End of Podcast

Ben: My name is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Tim: It's called the human regenerator. It's incredible. So, they call it health furniture or equivalent, and it's a bed. It looks like, you know, white, shiny, very luxurious. It delivers electrons, three electrons, negative ions, and anions. Basically, when you're lying down on a bed for 30 minutes, it produces — the byproduct is a mild ozone. So, you can just about smell it when you're on the device. I would say it's like recharging your mitochondria, recharging every cell in your body. Now, apparently, it gives off I think they said 30,000 volts in almost like a sphere around you when you're lying on the bed. In a 30-minute session, it basically is like having sunlight and grounding all in one go, charging yourselves within this electric field.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

This podcast is brought to you by a very intelligently formulated mineral. It's called LMNT. Spelled LMNT, like L-M-N, letter T. And, you can go to DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield to check it out and to get a free gift when you pick up these minerals. But, the fact is, a lot of people walk around with chronic electrolyte deficiencies and don't realize, A: you lose a ton of sodium. Especially, if you're doing like sauna or an athlete, up to 7 grams a day. That's difficult to replace with say like salt in your food. You almost have to salt it to the point where it becomes kind of puke factory. But, when you taste these tasty, tasty electrolytes, citrus flavor, watermelon flavor, even got like a chocolate flavor. I got like a kind of like a hot cayenne peppery flavor, they're amazing. I even mix them with cocktails sometimes or like these keto drinks I've been having. They're so versatile. On an airplane, take a plain bottle of water when you're kind of thinking, “Gosh, should I get one of those sugary ginger ales, or Cokes, or whatever?” No, just drink water. Put an LMNT in it, you feel great. When you fly, too. So, you get that.

They're designed by my friend Robb Wolf, who's a real health leader, real smart guy, smart formulator. He's been using for a while. He's a biochemist, New York Times bestselling author, and Navy SEAL Resilience Committee member. And, he works with a lot of really, really smart folks, and U.S. Olympians, NFL, NBA, NHL athletes, the Special Forces, a bunch of tech leaders. This stuff is big with the Twitter crowd, like Dick Costello, and a whole bunch of people using LMNT. You can even make a Dynamite, no sugar margarita with their citrus salt flavor. So, there's that, too. Not that I endorse high amounts of Tequila, but I'm just saying. So, here's how you get a free gift like I mentioned. DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield. That's DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield. You can try this stuff for yourself. Make your Margaritas. Use them on the plane. Use them when you get up in the morning in a big glass of water. They're just absolutely versatile and amazing. Check them out. Drink LMNT.

You're probably familiar with the fact that the average adult should get 7 to 9 hours of sleep each night. I realize that's not always possible. More and more people are forced to make lifestyle changes to get more deep sleep, especially. But the good news is that quality matters just as much as quantity. So, when you're in bed sleeping, you want the quality of the sleep. Even if you're not able to be in bed 7, or 8, or 9 hours to be as high as possible. The first half of the night is when your deep sleep window occurs, and that's when things start to drop. Your heart rate, your breathing, your blood pressure, muscle activity, your body temperature. And, since that temperature drop is such a crucial aspect of the deep sleep stages, finding ways to activate that sleep switch can help to increase your levels of deep sleep. So, that's where this thing called SleepMe comes in. SleepMe is the system that circulates cold or hot, if you need it as like an alarm clock, water to circulate underneath your mattress. So, it's a hydropower, temperature-controlled mattress topper that fits over your existing mattress. No matter what kind of mattress you have to give you your ideal sleep temperature.

Now, I'm pretty straightforward. I just set that bad boy 55 degrees and sleep all night. Occasionally, I'll switch it to warm water if I need an alarm. I don't want a blurring alarm clock. The warm water function is amazing. You've probably heard of sunrise alarm clocks that make natural sun? This is like that. Works just as well though. It's weird. Warm water just wakes you up and makes you not feel tired like you do in an alarm. Breaks you out of your sleep stages that might not be ideal for getting broken out of early in the morning. So, it's called the Dock Pro System. This new system that they've made. It's super slick. It'll even tie to your phone. You can set schedules. It's really cool. I guess, literally and figuratively, in this case. So, here's you can save up to 25% on the purchase of any new sleep system from SleepMe, and this offer is available exclusively for my listeners only for a limited time; sleep.me/BenGreenfield. That's sleep.me/BenGreenfield. And, that's how you can get that ultimate discount on the SleepMe. Enjoy!

I have on the back of my arm right now, the one thing I can leave on my body for a couple weeks in a row. That probably in addition to HRV is the number one thing that I can do on a real-time basis without going to give a bunch of tubes of blood in a lab to figure out what's going on with my body and how healthy I am. It's a continuous glucose monitor. It's also known as a CGM. I get mine from this company called Levels. That Levels has this app that lets you see how your food affects your health by giving you real-time feedback on your diet via your CGM, your continuous glucose monitor. So, I can learn like how a smoothie affects my body, if the reason I wake up in the middle of the night is because I have low blood sugar, what ketones do, what alcohol does, if it's up or down, if I'm feeling blah during a workout. Did I not eat enough? What's my blood sugar at? There's so much that you can learn. Like, I haven't like to track with breathwork, and heat, and cold. It's just a real, real cool way to ninja hack your body like a true expert without having to do anything that's not advanced. 

So, Levels is going to give all my listeners two free months of the Levels membership when you use my link, levels.link/Ben. When you purchase it, you get a one-month supply of continuous glucose monitors and a 12-month membership to their app. And then, they give you two free months of their annual membership on top of that. So, it's levels.link/Ben. That's levels.link/Ben. And, that's all you need. No code or anything. levels.link/Ben.

Ben: Alright, Tim. This is going to be fun. Last time, we went all over the map on all the crazy biohacks, and routines, and cool stuff you're up to, and some of the insider stuff you get access to before everybody else does. So, I know a lot has happened in the past year. I'm stoked. I always look forward to talking to you. And, I know that some people might not have just like dropped their podcast player and gone back and listen to the first episode that we did last year. So, in case people don't know who you are, get give kind of like the cliff notes of your backstory and how you got into all this.

Tim: Basically, 10 years ago, 12 years ago, I got sick. Doctors couldn't help me. And, this is I was going on for forums and trying all these different crazy stuff for my health because doctors couldn't help me. All the tests came back normal and I just had to start digging.

Ben: What were you sick with? What was it? Or, I mean what were the symptoms?

Tim: Yeah. Well, I was 200-mile an hour business guy. I was running a couple of companies. I was waking up at, you know, 8 o'clock, driving into the office, working through till 8 or 9 o'clock at night, eating, jumping into bed, wash, rinse, and repeat. So, I thought I was just normal human. I didn't realize this was–

Ben: #crushinglife.

Tim: Yeah, indeed. Indeed. And, I started getting chronic fatigue, and bloating, and thrush in my mouth, and a whole load of different things, which ended up exploding into a point where I got back from a 16-hour flight from Bali, and I got stuck with kidney stones in the hospital. 

Ben: Oh, geez.

Tim: Yeah. So, basically, they didn't know why I was forming kidney stones. They said it was something I had to live with for life. And, as a result, I spent a whole year pretty much stressed out that I was going to be peeing another one of these things out anytime soon, which is pretty painful.

Ben: How long does it take to pee out a kidney stone?

Tim: Really, it depends on how big it is and how long it's taken you to form it. The problem was that I didn't pee it out. It's stuck in my ureter for three days, and it feels like my knife is cutting you open from the inside out. They do say, and I can't obviously speak from experience, but it's on a par with giving birth, if not worse. And so, I wouldn't wish it for anyone, to be quite honest.

Ben: I've heard it's worse than a gun wound. And, my apologies to all the women out there who are about to or have given birth. Actually, recently, just got done with a podcast with this guy, Dr. Nathan Riley, who's like a holistic OB-GYN. You know, who describes it as like this sacred orgasmic experience where you're supposed to embrace some of the suffering and breathe through. I actually have seen some data. I think maybe it was a guy who does Freakonomics, who did say that gunshot wounds and a couple of these medical conditions, namely kidney stones and gallbladder attacks, are more painful than giving birth. You know, my complete respect to all the women out there. But, I think there are some things that are more painful depending on how you approach them, and what your breathwork tactics are, and whether or not you got the epidural. 

But, I got to tell you, Tim, not to derail your story too much here, I want to get back into it. I actually had a gallbladder, like a past a gallbladder stone. I suppose you would call it, you know, these mineral depositions in the gallbladder. And, this was right when I was like on the tail end of experimenting with eating a whole bunch of fats. I had interviewed the guy — he's the guy who wrote like the croissant diet and the wine diet, and we did a whole interview about all the beneficial fatty acids in pastured pork. And so, I thought, “I'm going to try and experiment with this.” And, for like a week, I was eating pork chops, and bacon, and you know all manner. Yeah, what else was that? There's pork belly. I had pork ribs. And, I was even using this special pork fat that he sent. And, like a week into this, we're sitting at the dinner table, and all of a sudden, I feel like this intense pain like radiating through my rib cage. I stood up from the dinner table, made it halfway down the hallway, dropped to my knees, belly-crawled into the bathroom, and nearly passed out on the bathroom floor. 

And, I started doing breathwork. Like, I was I started doing box breathing. Like, four counting, four count, hold; four count out, four count hold. And, just as like standing outside the bathroom door with the car keys, ready to take me to the hospital, I'm like, “Wait, wait, wait. I'm going to breathe through this.” But, it was like the kind of pain where you kind of wish you were dead. And then, after 15 minutes, I stood up. I used the restroom. It went away. And, within like a half hour, I was fine. It was the most horrific pain ever. And, I can't imagine having something like that also happening in in your ureter with a kidney stone. But, I can only imagine.

Tim: Oh, it's bonkers, yeah. It's bonkers. Absolutely, crazy, yeah. Actually, talking about your gallbladder, have you have you done a liver flush before? Or, what do you think about the liver flushes? 

Ben: Oh, yeah. You mean like where you're doing an olive oil, lemon juice, ghee. You know, Dr, Chris Shade at Quicksilver, he'll even throw in like some of his liver sauce and stuff like that. I've done those flushes before, and you certainly wind up with a ton of what appear to be like small, white, round mineral depositions in the toilet when you use the restroom. As though the body actually is flushing out the gallbladder. 

I don't know if there's a lot of deep science behind these liver and gallbladder flushes. But, I think that if you can get through the fact that you're going to have to be near a toilet, which I mean like any guys done like a colonoscopy procedure is kind of used to that one day where you're just, yeah, you're pretty much tied to the toilet. But, unless you're severely dehydrated or mineral depleted, I don't think it's going to hurt you. I would imagine there's probably less intense ways to care for the liver and the gallbladder. But, I suppose if you've put it through the wringer, those flushes can be helpful. But, yeah, you got to be prepared to be friends with the porcelain god for a while.

Tim: Oh, yeah. So, last time I did it — and there isn't a lot of science supporting it, but I do find that it's fantastic. And, in terms of bowel movements for days and days afterwards, it's a lot better. But, I did 17 runs to the toilet last time. I did one 17. It was pretty intense stuff, yeah. But, I mean I did get — I cleared out a lot of…

Ben: I can just imagine you keeping track like a prisoner in a cell with the little hash marks on the wall by the toilet; 12, 13, 14. 

Tim: I had a Post-it note on the shower curtain. 

Ben: Alright. So, you had these kidney stones. You had all these issues.

Tim: Yeah. And, all the doctors would prescribe me as they said, “Oh, you've probably got a kidney infection,” and this and that. And, “Take antibiotics.” So, I was taking antibiotics for three months basically. And, after that, I wasn't digesting food pretty well. My energy dropped to the ground. I got brain fog. I started getting tendonitis because they'd put me on ciprofloxacin, which is a has a black box warning and quite bad for a lot of people.

Ben: That's like the antibiotic that can cause tendon rupture.

Tim: Yep. It was a slippery slope. And, the more doctors I saw, the more that they just prescribed me stuff. And, one day, I went into the doctors and I said to them, “What's wrong with me?” And, he struck your soul and said, “Tim, we can't find anything wrong,” and I knew there was. So, you know, kind of at that point started researching forums. And, again, this was around 2010, something like that.

Ben: Any generation's ears listening in have a big question mark over their head when you say forums, but I think Reddit. Pretty much. Like, you know, it's the best place to go for medical advice, right? The comment section of a blog, or forums, or possibly the comment section on a YouTube video, right? 

Tim: Yeah. And, this was really before, you or Dave were doing anything on content and there were hardly any functional doctors. Instagram wasn't this big thing full of influences, or giving the best health advice on their posts and stuff. So, you had to really dig into research and forums and look at what people were commenting on. So, I just kept on digging. I mean, obviously, it came around that I had mercury poisoning at the time from the amount of [00:14:50]____  fillings I had, and the amount of sushi I was eating, and down to my genetics. I have a double SNP on the MTHFR and MTR off. So, I'm not a good methylator. 

So, the doctors obviously don't test for mercury. They don't test for B-12 deficiencies. They don't test for various other things, like such as candida levels and all these things. So, of course, what they were just checking for were showing okay. But, what the functional doctors these days check for were showing actually, there's a whole load of stuff of black. So, really, I just kind of took it into my own hands and started researching. 

And, you know, later on, I heard about bulletproof coffee and biohacking. And then, the spaces obviously erupted since then. So, it was just a journey of learning and testing stuff on myself. And then, obviously, it evolved to become a meet-up, and then onto the Health Optimisation Summit, where I kind of, you know, share all of the cool things I've learned, and all of the speakers and authors from around the world, and just continue to share the knowledge I've learned.

Ben: When did you start at the summit? 

Tim: The first one was in 2019, pre-COVID. 

Ben: Okay.

Tim: But, we had meet up since 2017. So, we've had like 16 or 17 meetups.

Ben: Nice timing on that. Start putting all your energy into the conference before COVID hits, yeah. But, by the way, the forums thing is funny that you bring that up. Because, I don't know if I told you this before. But, I pretty much like built my business early on the day when I was first becoming like an internet influencer, or starting online coaching stuff like that, whatever you want to call it, on forums. 

Like, I had like Friday Forum day, where for 8 hours a day, I was on like, every — in my case, this was for the triathlon market. Every endurance forum, triathlon forum, marathoner forum, long distance swimming, or open water swimming forum, all I would do all Friday was go in and reply to people's questions. Almost like an AMA. And, it wasn't like self-promotional or anything. 

I was just basically answering questions and trying to be helpful. But, as the forums are structured, you have like a bio with the clickable link. So, in my bio, I would always say, “Hey, want to learn more? Want to get coaching for me?” Et cetera.  And then, I have a link back to my coaching website and my training plans. And this was all just like early on almost kind of like SEO back linking. Except, even then, the search engines didn't scrape forums that well. So, people wouldn't necessarily find you on a search engine, but they'd find you by being a member of these forums. So, literally, like every Friday for, gosh, like two years, all I would do the entire day was answer questions on forums. And, it actually worked. Like, back then, it was good strategy.

Tim: Yes. I mean, it was a good — I actually think that I'm starting to go back to using forums again in Cure Zone and looking at Reddit and see what people are talking about. Because it's often not policed in the same way and you can often find out juicy things that have been blocked in other places. I actually quite enjoy going back to that area now. But, you know, for the last five or six years, it's pretty much been PubMed, or research sites, or looking at other authors' books, and well you know the drill.

Ben: You know, I'm curious for you from like a biohacking or fitness or a health standpoint. When you're going throughout your day, and you're getting exposed to all these new ideas, tactics, tools, books, et cetera, what's it actually looks like for you? As far as is how you're structuring your day to be able to research or experiment with, or try a lot of this stuff. Or, you just like full-time doing that, or are you writing, or what's your actual daily routine look like when it comes to being able to explore this stuff?

Tim: I'm a full-time biohacker these days. And, that involves testing devices, meeting speakers, hanging out with speakers, and traveling around the world and testing different things really. That's pretty much my full-time job these days. Part of it is, obviously, organizing speakers and brands with the conference, but really is testing this. So, my day is pretty structured most of the time. I do have a couple of days a week where it's no structure and it's basically just free flow to be in flow state. 

But, generally, you know, I work out first thing in the morning. And, one of the things that I've implemented that's made me so much more productive and happier is actually implementing “The Morning Miracles.” And, I think I mentioned them briefly on our last podcast…

Ben: Is that Hal Elrod?

Tim: It's basically based on a book with “The Morning Miracles.” And, it's about silence affirmations, visualizations, exercises, and reading. And, you sit down and basically meditate, read, exercise. And, before anything else, you awake, you hydrate, or do whatever, you do your morning miracles, which sets you up for the whole day every day. And, that's a non-negotiable. And, I think in terms of visualizations, as you know how powerful they are; affirmations, in terms of how they can help you grow so much; silence, obviously, as a mindful of meditation, which where I reflect on the previous day to be better. But, really, this is the foundation of my day. Without question and without exception. And, after that, for instance, the day is structured for instance, it's my time in the morning to test out devices, to do whatever I need before the calls start. Like, kind of 10:00 or 11:00 in the morning. And then, it calls through till 2 o'clock. And then, I head down time in the afternoon.

So, I do change this from day to day, you know, depending on the day. But really, a lot of my day is dedicated to testing, using different biohacks these days.

Ben: Yeah, yeah. I think “The Morning Miracles,” I think it's Hal Elrod is the book. And, in the program, I'll hunt it down and put it in the shownotes for folks. But, I'm curious just as far as that “Morning Miracles,” the silence piece. What's that actually look like? Are you just like sitting quietly with the eyes closed. And, if so, for how long?

Tim: This is a great question. Actually, because I've always had trouble meditating. I've always been, you know, 200 miles an hour, not wanting to sit still, always wanting to achieve stuff. And, I tried the Sensate device, which I still use from time to time but it was a staple for me. Because I found that the Sensate meditation device helped me hold myself accountable to doing it with a device.

Ben: Describe that to people what the Sensate is.

Tim: So, it's the Sensate. It's like a teardrop-shaped device, which you actually put on your chest on your breastbone. And, it pulses, vibrates on your chest in time with the music or the sounds to help you get into a deep meditative state. It's a vagus nerve stimulation device as well. So, it's really — think of it as a purring cat on your chest while you're meditating, which really takes you out of the mind space, puts you into the kinesthetic position, and helps you to distance yourself from the outside world. So, for me, that really guided me into being more of a meditator. But, I still relied on a device. When I read “The Morning Miracles,” however, it said silence. So, I would sit there and I would challenge myself to 10 minutes of silence, nothing. Like, literally, nothing. Whatever came up, came up. 

But, as I did this more and more, and I forced myself to do this, instead of meditation, silence is a key differentiator with it. Because I didn't care what came up. And, I found eventually the more that I did it, the more my brain looked for things that I had done the previous day where I could have been a better human. Whether it could have been helping someone better, how I could have worded something better to someone, you know, if something triggered me, reflect on that and ask myself, “Why did I react in that way?” So, every day, I'm self-correcting from the previous day in my 10-minute silence. So, this is really about self-growth and understanding things that where I could have been better, how to be better. And, I found since then I've been a self-correcting machine and worked through years of stuff very, very quickly just from a 10-minute reflection.

Ben: That's interesting. Sounds like almost unintentionally, it shifts you into a state of what you know many ancient philosophers would have called examine or self-examination even without necessarily meaning to do so. If you let your thoughts fall back into the previous day's failures, mistakes, lessons learned, et cetera, I still think self-examination, which I do at the end of the day by playing the day back like a movie in my mind. Typically, as I'm falling asleep, or sometimes with my family during evening meditation. It's a tremendous way to keep in touch with that concept of how you live your day is how you live your life. Because it's pretty easy to get into this like Groundhog Day scenario, where you're not really improving, not learning from your failures, not growing as a person. But, if you've carved out a certain time of day, to actually measure that so that can be managed, I think it's an incredible tool.

And, interestingly, I think it was Dr. Peter Martone, who's like this sleep specialist, who I had on my podcast. He taught me that if you're trying to fall asleep or trying to relax, if you engage in forward-thinking, like planning what you're going to do, maybe when you get it from a nap, or the next day, or conversation you're going to have, or an email that you're going to write, or whatever, you actually see a shift in electrical and blood flow activity of the frontal cortex where you kind of host a lot of your ruminating thoughts. And, it will increase sleep latency or disrupt napping patterns or relaxation. But, the complete opposite occurs if you force yourself to instead think back to — and you can start with very simple things. Like, “What I have for breakfast this morning?” And, “What was the first thing I did when I got up?” And then, maybe, “What did I have for dinner last night? What was my workout yesterday? Who did I talk to?” And, you train your brain to start to shift into the past, it's actually an incredible way to relax you. 

Because I mean, Tim, you've probably seen like these devices. I think there's one called the Ebb, E-B-B. That you literally wear around your head and it circulates cold water near the forehead to apparently vasoconstrict and cause blood flow to shift away from that frontal cortex. And, it's interesting because it does have that same relaxing effect. Unfortunately, it's difficult to relax with this giant headset on. But, this idea of past processing versus future processing is something I find really interesting.

Tim: They say that — but it's important to visualize where you want to go. But, it's also important to visualize and work through where you've been. And, I think, its empowerment, opposed to most people. And, I've put myself in this category for my pretty much my whole life of running around so much, doing so much stuff, and actually, instead of being, doing. And, we are human beings. And, I think when you actually start reflecting on the things that trigger you, you can actually craft them or adjust them. So, I think it's a really — in terms of making me grow up as a human and to work through things and make my relationships better and my health, my psychological health, which means your physical health obviously catches up with that as well; it's been probably the biggest game changer of my last two years. To be quite honest.

Ben: Yeah, amazing. And, that Sensate device by the way, you mentioned I've messed around that thing a little bit. It actually works remarkably well, especially if you do want to like silence ruminating thoughts because it's vibrating. You describe like a cat purring on your chest, which is a perfect analogy because that's what it feels like. It's super relaxing. And then, I don't know if this has crossed your mind, Tim. But, I thought, well, gosh, if haptic sensations on the chest lull me into a state of relaxation, what if I were to combine there's something like the Apollo, which is like haptic sensation for your wrist or your ankle. And, sometimes, when I want to check out, you know, in the middle of the day for a little nap or a siesta, I'll put that Sensate on my chest and the Apollo on one of my ankles or on my wrist, and you kind of get the double vibratory sensation, it seems to work incredibly well. 

Tim: That says interesting stimulus of like, for instance, if someone's touching on your shoulder, you can't focus on the feeling on your hand.

Ben: Yeah.

Tim: So, it's going to be really interesting how your brain's going to flick between the two things. And, probably confuse you and really make you calm. It's really interesting. I have to try that.

Ben: Yeah, it is. I mean, it's that same theory of like the guys at Human Garage over in L.A. They used to do massage on the inside of your mouth. Where they literally go in with rubber gloves, and it was incredibly uncomfortable and painful. But, they always had like two or three therapists working on you. So, one of them was doing that, the other would be like rubbing your head, and another would be working on the feet. And, you're actually able to tolerate a lot more pain with that kind of distractibility. So, there's definitely something to it.

Hey, you said that you have a silence and the meditation, the affirmations as a part of this miracle mornings. And then, there were two others one was exercise. What was the last one?

Tim: Affirmations, silence, visualizations. 

Ben: That's right.

Tim: And reading.

Ben: Visualization, reading, okay. What's the fitness routine look for you right now?

Tim: Because I've been traveling so much, I found it very hard to be very consistent with gyms, and things like that. I find that I like to keep it consistent. So, what I've been doing is using body weight at home, or when I met my other — well, either of my homes. Which it evolves on pull-ups, press-ups, sandbags, kettlebells, Roman chair because I'm working on balancing my hips and strength on the lower side, and keeping it really light and simple to be quite honest. The main reason was this I was pushing it very, very, very hard in the gym. And, I went from 67 kilos to 75 kilos pretty quickly, which when obviously my appetite went up. I felt like I was an eating machine. And, I was pushing myself a bit too hard. And, being an ectomorph, putting on weight, and eating is where you, as a fellow ectomorph, how much you have to eat to put on a considerable weight.

Ben: A lot. I got to exceed 4,000 calories a day to gain weight. 

Tim: Yes. I was exactly the same. And, I actually had a quite big jaw surgery with the biological dentist, Dr. Dom. I think he might have been on your podcast.

Ben: Oh, yeah.

Tim: And, I had quite a big jaw surgery done. And so, I had to stop working out and it took six weeks for it to heal, actually, just because my body didn't quite want to. So, I kind of backed off with the gym. I needed to back off with the eating. And now, since then, I've just been ticking over and letting my body catch back up before pushing it again. 

So, I think the biggest issue that I find with biohackers or questions I get from my followers is that, a lot of them don't actually want to work out. They just want you know the result, but they don't want to put their work in. And, I think what I found works well for me when I'm traveling or have a heavy workload such as before a conference, is having things that you trip over near you. Such as the pull-up bar between the lounge and kitchen, or a rebounder next to your standing desk, which is just down here. You know, the kettlebells which are three feet away, so I can pick up and do some.

Ben: Who doesn't like hot chocolate? I like hot chocolate. Marshmallows, s'mores, hot chocolate, campfires. You're speaking my language. But, let's face it. Sometimes, it can also be like diabetes in a cup. Pardon the expression. I mean, it can really be a massive sugar bomb when you're having the average cup of dark chocolate, nor does it necessarily have a lot of nutrients in it. It's a lot of times, just like powdered milk, and chocolate, and sugar. So, anyways, there is a really great form of hot chocolate out there. So, the average hot chocolate cup has 200 calories, 6 grams of fat, and 25 grams of sugar. This stuff I'm going to tell you about has 23 calories, less than 2 grams of fat, and 1 gram of sugar. And, they've packed it with herbs with ayurvedic roots, like turmeric and ginger. They've got reishi mushroom in it. They've got a whole host of different superfoods. Including lemon balm, and turkey tail mushroom in this stuff. And, it's USDA organic, certified gluten-free, certified by glyphosate residue-free, dairy-free, soy-free, vegan, non-GMO, and 100% organic whole food. It's made by, you guessed it, Organifi. And, it's called their Gold Chocolate. It's called Gold because it has that turmeric and ginger in it. Lovely golden-colored roots that really lend a nice amount of flavor, and a really great anti-inflammatory punch to this stuff. So, you get 20% off of their Gold Chocolate. Highly recommend. Especially with latte frother, a little coconut milk, holy cow. organifi.com/Ben for 20% off. That's Organifi, with an I, .com/Ben for 20% off.

Earlier this year, I made a pretty big statement that I think that when it comes to NAD, Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, this molecule with great cellular protective and anti-aging properties. When it comes to the bioavailability of it, I think that nothing beats from what I've seen NAD3. A version of NAD that's very bioavailable, difficult to find. But, there's a new product that has added other proven longevity compounds. Namely, spermidine, niacinamide, and resveratrol to the NAD3, making it the most complete and efficacious NAD supplement that I think exists anywhere. And, it's called BioStack NAD Regen, made by BioStack Labs. NAD Regen, like regeneration. Now, this is pretty impressive stuff. I'm popping three every morning right now. I'm also taking their Cell Shield. So, those two in combination give an enormous age reversal, longevity, anti-aging punch. When you get a 3-month supply of this stuff, they're going to send you a fourth bottle totally free. So, you're getting a bottle completely free. You go to BioStackLabs.com/Ben. BioStack, B-I-O-S-T-A-C-K Labs.com/Ben, if you want to try this stuff out. So, again, it's called N-A-D Regen. 

Okay. So, the biggest complaint, at least one of them, I get from my clients who are business owners, is they can't get their employees excited about improving their health. It's no surprise when they have, you know, corporate wellness initiative that involves like sticking a fruit bowl and some raw almonds in the break room, or some generic fitness app that's boring, and adds just another thing to an employee's already long to-do list. 

So, I stepped back. I looked at corporate wellness programs from a fresh angle. Like, what if we could do nutrition, fitness, mental health, sleep, productivity, make it fun, make it exciting, make it all-inclusive, make it easy to succeed in. Incorporate all the latest science and the cool biohacks without breaking the bank, and have a team of coaches to customize a corporate wellness program to the exact needs of a corporation's team. So, they do all the work. Meaning, my coaches do all the work. All you have to do is say yes to improving the health of your employees. And then, we come in. We take care of everything. You get to sit back and watch morale productivity and engagement increase, while you get a huge team of happy and healthy employees. To learn more about my corporate wellness programs, and how they'll make your company a better, and ultimately, a more successful place to work, you can go to BenGreenfieldCoaching.com. That's BenGreenfieldCoaching.com. Check it out. 

For those of you now watching the video version, I'll link to at BenGreenfieldLife.com/TimGray2. You can see some of the stuff littering Tim's room. And, much of the chagrin of my wife, Tim, I'm the same. There's like a yoga swing hanging above the dining room table upstairs. I have one — I'm trying to get my neck stronger. So, right now, I have one of those iron neck devices absolutely right at the entrance to the stairs going down from our bedroom. So, I just remembered to do it when I walk by it. There's at least three different rooms that have a kettlebell on the floor, couple more with foam rollers. Like, you really can't be in any room of the house without something to either do deep tissue work, or some kind of quick fitness drill. So, I think it's an incredible hack. Unless, you live with a hyper-clean person. In which case, you might need a little bit of spousal or marriage or relationship counseling. But, nonetheless, it actually is a pretty good trick. 

I'm curious for you. Especially with the summit and, you know, your public-facing image is a biohacker. If you probably a little bit like me, get certain like devices and new fitness hacks and gadgets sent your way. And if so, if you stumbled across anything particularly interesting or something that's going to be interesting at the summit this year. 

Tim: Yeah. There's a few. There's a few devices. I mean, one I'm sure you're very familiar with. It's actually coming for the first year for us, is the NeuroVizr.

Ben: Oh. Tell people about it. I actually have a story about the NeuroVizr, but go ahead.

Tim: So, basically, it's flashes lights in your eyes when you obviously you have your eyes, then you meditate. I would compare it with making you have hallucinations from certain distance, different hallucinogens. And, helps you access different mental states or feelings, I would say, from taking no substances. And, it basically flickers very fast. Some people obviously can't use it because of migraine, being a migraine trigger maybe.

Ben: Epilepsy.

Tim: Yeah. But, it's funny because I when I first saw it, I thought, “What a ridiculous device.” Like just another device. But, actually, the more I've played with it and the more I've heard from other people about their experiences with it, the more I realized actually it's pretty, pretty good device. But, I'm intrigued to hear your thoughts on it.

Ben: They sent me that like their new model a few weeks ago. So, this is kind of top of mind for me. And so, just people know like it's literally like, I don't know if people seem like a BrainTap before, which is like a light/sound stimulation machine. But, it's like this visor with a set of light panels. You lay back you, close your eyes, and then depending on the setting that you choose on the app that accompanies the device, it might be doing a session for creativity, or mood enhancement, or meditation, or deep sleep, or what have you. And, most of the sessions last around 11 minutes. Although, the app has this cool little feature called Playlist, where you can string multiple sessions together. If you want to do like a NeuroVizr session for an hour or whatever. 

So, anyways, like Tim said, as soon as you flip the thing on and close your eyes, it feels like you've taken a heroic dose of psilocybin. I mean, like you're just off on another planet. And, sometimes, you'll lay there and you'll feel like you've been laying there for like 30 seconds. The 11-minute timer goes off. You're like, “Holy cow! I don't know what just happened.” But, it's a complete disconnect in a very cool way that can shift the brain into these different brainwave states afterwards. So, it's almost like a priming for the brain depending on what state that you seek. 

So, for example, my sons are working on new card game right now. And, I've had them running the creativity session. Where they'll just like drop down for a quick 11-minute NeuroVizr session during the day before they go do their drawing and their writing. And, I think there really is something to it from an enhancement standpoint, depending on what you want to do. I'm not trying to make this sound like a big commercial for NeuroVizr.

But, anyways. So, I have one of these sound healing tables, Tim. And, the sound healing table allows you to like pull in any audio from a phone. I mean, you could watch a movie through your body if you wanted to just feel the movie soundtrack, rather than just listen to it. But, the sound table also has a headphone port where you can be listening to a track, while simultaneously having that track blasted through every cell of your body. So, it's pretty cool. And, my idea was, well, the NeuroVizr has all these built-in music tracks that accompany the lights. So, why not hook up the headphones, hook up the NeuroVizr to the sound table, drop back, and do a session. And, it's stellar. Like, it's super cool. And, it's very, very simple to pull off. You have all these sound-handling table, you just plug it in. But, you're getting the light, the sound, and then the full body vibration from the sound all at the same time. It's a super cool experience. So, anyways, I've had my sons do a few, too. And, they're just like, they're enamored with it. It's pretty crazy. 

Tim: There's a brand of the table?

Ben: I have kind of like a budget-friendly one. It's probably the best one out there. But, there's a company called BioMat. They're like a Korean company. They make these infrared mats. And, I think they even have like a PMF map. They have what's called an acoustic therapy mat, so that's the one that I have and it's pretty cool. If you want to experiment with an app like that and feeling. You could do the same through the NuCalm. You can do a NuCalm session. And rather than just listening to it, you can feel it through your whole body.

Tim: Alright, nice. I'll check these guys out.

Ben: I would classify that as a little bit more like a brain stimulation device, but it could be used like before a workout. Like you were describing to prime the brain. Anything else in the fitness or the exercise category that you've come across lately?

Tim: Well, I like the Airofit still, and I'm not sure if we discussed this before. 

Ben: Oh, the breath device?

Tim: Yeah. 

Ben: Tell people about that one.

Tim: Yeah. So, it's a device you put in your mouth. And, instead of nasal breathing, obviously, it's mouth breathing. But, for a few minutes a day, it's not a problem. It's a lung strength and capacity device. So, it gives you different challenges on your phone to bring out for like 10 seconds, and you're following the graph. And then, breathe in, and then hold, and then breathe out. And, it gives you all these different exercises. You can see how you progress in terms of lung strength and capacity over a period of time. It's actually one of my favorite devices because I think breathwork, for me, is one of those things I really have to push myself to do. Cold showers or ice baths too, it doesn't bother me too much. But, for some reason, something to do with breathing on a daily basis in a breathwork session, is challenging for me to motivate myself. But, when I have the device and it's on my coffee table where I sit in the morning and read, I pick it up and I do it. 

So, it's actually really interesting to see your brand long strength and capacity increase over a period of time. It's great for obviously for sports. I found that when I started using it, that my headaches were significantly better. My snoring, before I had the laser therapy done, reduced significantly and I track my snoring nightly. As well as when I'm swimming in the sea, for instance. I find I can hold my breath significantly longer than I used to be able to. So, it's almost like having a new body when it comes to breathing. And, you can see it in the data. 

Ben: Yeah. I actually met them at the summit last year. And, I have a device. It's up on my bed stand. And, I do most of my breathwork with my sons. And, by the way, for those of you wondering if breathwork ever gets any easier those first two minutes, it's kind of like a hard workout. Like, it never does. You just got to get through the first two minutes though, and then your body kind of falls into the routine. But, still for me, after years of breathwork, like the first couple minutes, like, “Ah, here we go.” I get the lungs warmed up, but that's totally normal. And so, yeah, I love that Airofit device.

Now, you mentioned I believe the vagal nerve implications of something like breathwork. Have you messed around with any of these vagal nerve stimulators? Like, there's one called — and this type of mind. So, my friend's got a migraine headache that she had to come over last night and sleep at our house. And so, this morning, I gave her this thing called a gammaCore, which you hold up against the vagal nerve on the right side of the neck for two minutes, then the left side of the neck for two minutes, and delivers this mild electrical sensation that helps to calm a lot of the cranial nerves. There's several other devices that are now marketed and available for personal use as vagal nerve stimulators. But have you ever messed around any of those, Tim?

Tim: I've played around with a few in the past. Not this gammaCore one, which I will actually check out. Because I get a lot of people talking about migraines, and it's something that my family's had pretty much their whole lives. So, I'm going to explore that one. But there's various different ones that pop up and around.

Ben: Pulsetto is another one. Pulsetto, spelled two T's. That's a little more affordable than the gammaCore, and it ties to an app on your phone. You can set for anxiety, for stress, et cetera. A session lasts like 10 minutes. And, that one's nice because it's hands-free. It just hangs around your neck and you apply a little bit of electro-gel to either side of the neck. And, that one seems to work pretty well. It's not quite as powerful as the gammaCore, nor do I think is it like FDA-cleared for headaches. Like, the gammaCore is for things, like cluster headaches and migraines. 

But, it's super interesting. In functional medicine, they a lot of times for trauma therapy, and stress, and anxiety, they'll do a stellate ganglion nerve block of the vagus nerve. Meaning, they literally use like ultrasound-guided imaging and go in to the right side of the neck, and typically, inject very near the vagal nerve. Something like exosomes or a fluid. And then, they'll go and do the same thing on the left side. And, obviously, you'd want someone who's highly trained to do this because like you're right next to the carotid artery. 

And, anyways, I had my first stellate ganglion nerve block done by Dr. Matt Cook a couple of weeks ago. And, it's very interesting. You have it done, and immediately, the entire body goes into zen mode. I mean, I sat up from the table and I felt like I smoked a couple of joints. And, it was just like total pure relaxation. You could have freaking come in there and insulted my mom, and I just would have sat there and smiled. Like, the vagal nerve stimulators work, but I'd never had anything like that. Like, a nerve block that just completely almost like reboots the vagal nerve, and the nervous system, and some of these cranial nerves. It was pretty crazy. I don't know if you've ever looked in one of those. But, if you haven't, it'd be cool to have you experience.

Tim: I haven't. But, I have played around with a Pulsetto. And, in fact, the Pulsetto guys are going to be at the conference.

Ben: Oh, in June.

Tim: I mean, in terms of fitness devices actually, there's actually one device that I really want to bring up. I'm not sure if you've heard of it yet, but it's called the Human Regenerator.

Ben: No. Tell me about it.

Tim: Oh, man. 

Ben: It's a great name.

Tim: Yeah. It's incredible. So, it's basically — they call it health furniture or equivalent, and it's a bed. It looks like a white, shiny, very luxurious. It's aimed for, you know, like the ultra-wealthy, gyms, and clubs like in Monaco, and things like this. 

Ben: Okay.

Tim: Quite a lot of the big tech founders and CEOs have got it. It delivers electrons, three electrons, negative ions, and anions. Basically, when you're lying down on a bed for 30 minutes, it produces — the byproduct is a mild ozone. So, you can just about smell it when you're on the device. I would say it's like recharging your mitochondria, recharging every cell in your body. Now, apparently, it gives off I think they said 30,000 volts in an almost like a sphere around you when you're lying on the bed. And, in a 30-minute session, it basically is like having sunlight and grounding all in one go, charging yourselves within this electric field.

Ben: Will that be on the expo floor if people want to try it?

Tim: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 

Ben: Oh, dude. Okay. I'm going to check it out. It sounds very interesting. You look at a lot of these multimodal strategies, you know. Like, you know, the BioCharger, for example. That you stand in front of and it does infrared light, and electromagnetic frequencies, and right frequencies, and negative ions. Or, there's this new institute out in Lexington, Kentucky. I interviewed the guy, Dr. Jeremy Stich. They developed this thing called the Ammortal Catalyst, which is a device that sweeps the entire body with PEMF. But then, they have like this $150,000 bed. I think there's only like one right now. It's that's actually been made. It's in Denver. And, it does hydrogen therapy, ozone, sound therapy, PEMF, infrared light. Like, everything you'd want to do as far as like a fringe, you know, recovery or cellular enhancement modality all at once. You know, there's like that HOCATT device, which is kind of similar, which is like ozone plus PEMF that you sit inside. 

And, I don't know your thoughts on this, Tim, but it's very difficult with some of these strategies that you're doing all at once to say if there's any human clinical research behind them. Because this stuff's very difficult to study and I know there's probably several scientists just snickering about these two crazy biohackers experimenting with all these fringe modalities. But, from an anecdotal standpoint, I can tell you a lot of these like multimodal beds or devices, I think they're just like electrical medicine that you can have at home.

Tim: The funny thing is, this is where the Human Regenerator comes in. Where science is backing it. It's called cold atmospheric plasma, and that's not plasma in terms of the blood. And, it's basically anion gas. And, it's used in a healing modality in a small focal, like for instance post-surgery and things like that. But, what these guys have done have actually put it onto a whole-body scale. Like, if you look at NIH PubMed site, and look at “cold atmospheric plasma,” and the applications and the implications for it to speed up the mitochondria and fix multiple health issues, some of the more serious ones, which I will not mention, it's fantastic. And, these guys have just opened it up to be a full-body application opposed to focal little area. 

So, when I first heard about it I was like big claim, “I think it's going to be rubbish, but why not.” And, they said, “Come out and see us. Come and see the factory in Germany. We'll give you a demo of it. We'll run through all of the science. We'll show you everything.” But, I tried it. I was like, “Dude, this is amazing!” It's actually one of the best modalities I think I've used. And, I think if you combine the human regeneration — this isn't an ad for them, by the way. I just I absolutely love it. And, they've just opened a showroom in London. So, I'm going to be using it weekly from here on in.

But, if you use the Human Regenerator to recharge your mitochondria, you have ozone IV to kill off any viruses and support all of the things you can get from the city or toxicities and things. And then, the new one that like I'm pairing with that is actually blood filtering.

Ben: You mean, like plasmapheresis? 

Tim: Yeah. So, basically, they take your blood out. They separate of the plasma. They filter it. You see what it's collected; i.e. micro plastics and things. And then, obviously, they put it back in. So, I've been having that in Austria. I think with the ozone, with the filtering, and The Human Regenerator, I think you've pretty much got charging and detoxification all wrapped up into three modalities. And, this is my superhuman stack right now. 

Ben: The interesting thing is, I'm curious if you're quantifying this. Like, whether it be a blood work, or heart rate variability measurements, or even like some of these newer aging clocks. You know, there's like the DunedinPACE clock, or the Horvath's clock, or anything like that. Like, have you actually done any pre-, post-tests to see if it's, at least for you, as an N equals 1 working? 

Tim: Yeah. So, okay. So, first things first, heart rate variability, I track all the time, obviously. And, I found that after doing the Human Regenerator, specifically, then I got about 20% increase in my heart rate variability. Now, I'm a sympathetic dominant type. So, my heart rate variability tends to be lower than the parasympathetic dominant.

Ben: Okay.

Tim: Obviously. But, I found that my average is almost double since beforehand. And, this is when using the blood filtering, the Human Regenerator, ozone. So, it's been a significant shift for me. And, I think it's partly because the viral load, historically. I had toxoplasmosis and various other things I needed to deal with. So, I think that what this has helped me with is just my body deal with things that have been lurking around for a long time. So, it's been interesting. So, the other thing is lifeblood analysis. So, seeing my underlying analysis beforehand. And then, a few weeks afterwards, and it looks much better. One thing I did note from that actually was that even though I was hydrating properly, I still wasn't hydrated properly in the blood, the blood cell, and I needed more grounding because my red blood cells weren't equidistant. They were still clumped together a bit too much.

So, looking in real time, yes. In terms of blood work, I do the NutrEval, which is actually my favorite blood test of all. The NutrEval from Genova Labs, which is the metabolomics test. So, you look at yourself on a cellular level and see what your deficiencies are.

Ben: Explain that with the people, the NutrEval.

Tim: Yeah. So, NutrEval, basically, looks at you on a cellular level. It looks at the expression of the cell. So, metabolomics. And so, what that does is it can see what the expression of the cell is and say, “We're looking at the cell and we see that you are deficient in B12, and here's what you should supplement in terms of a dose to get that cell to where it should be.” Now, the basis is if your engine is firing correctly; i.e., it has all the oil, the water, and whatnot that it needs to run correctly, your body will do so and it will heal things that it has going on. So, looking at the NutrEval on the cellular level, instead of looking at the genes what could go wrong, or blood work, or urine that things that aren't working quite right, looking on a cellular level, you know what your body needs to operate correctly. So, that's why the NutrEval is my favorite.

Ben: Yeah, I agree. It's a very comprehensive test if you want something that goes above and beyond your basic lipid panel, complete blood count, you know, metabolic panel, et cetera. Because it'll look at things like fungal markers, upstream and downstream metabolites of certain compounds, amino acid balances, for all the different ratios of amino acids, and it gives you a lot more insight than a standard blood panel would base on that particular lab. And, that's a blood spot test. So, yeah, I'm a huge fan of the NutrEval, and use it with a lot of my clients who want to take a deeper dive. It's interesting, too. 

I was actually doing some research last week for one of my clients whose mom is dealing with chemotherapy right now. And, we're looking at modalities that have some research behind them for increasing the cytotoxicity of chemotherapy. And, it turns out that a cancer cell that is either heated or hyper-oxygenated tends to be far more susceptible to death upon chemotherapy radiation or the use of some of these chemotherapy drugs. 

And so, cancer hyperthermia. You know, I don't know if you've looked into that at all. These super-duper hot units, way hotter than a sauna. You actually have to wear a rectal probe, you know, that's inserted and then you're trying to get the body temperature above. I believe about 107 degrees Fahrenheit. That would be one example of using hyperthermia for cancer, and there's a lot of really good research behind it. But, I wasn't aware of that ozone — and not quite as effective, but secondarily, hyperbaric oxygen also pair really, really well with chemotherapy as far as increasing the efficiency. Potentially, even decreasing the amount of necessary treatments or the treatment time for something like chemo. 

So, while I'm certainly not a doctor and I don't want this to be taken as medical advice, I think that even for cancer patients, especially those undergoing chemo, looking into some of these things like ozone, like hyperbaric, like hyperthermia, based on some things I was reading recently, so it's top of mind, could actually be a good idea to at least investigate.

Tim: I agree. I agree. I mean, I have a big background in hyperbaric oxygen therapy. I had London's first private clinic for it back from 2016, which I sold back in 2018, 19. But, the amount of people that contacted us for cancer treatment support was quite insane. But, we were for biohackers and for health, not for cancer patients. So, we couldn't really look after them, unfortunately. But, the point is, there is such a big need for it. It's crazy. And, I think it's a supporting modality to other things. It's fantastic. I mean, a Dr. Scott Sherr, our mutual friend, is obviously excellent, excellent on this exact topic, that I've discussed with him at length.

Ben: Oh, yeah. He's a big fan of taking your methylene blue and your nitric oxide precursors, and hopping in hyperbaric, which I think is it's actually a pretty good strategy. So, you know, we haven't talked a lot about like diet or supplements or some of these meal replacement trends, et cetera. I think somebody sent me a link to this stuff. I don't know if you've seen it before, Tim. It's this brand new fermented milk alternative called Space Milk. Have you seen Space Milk before? 

Tim: No, I haven't heard of it. 

Ben: I scoffed the same as you when I first heard about it. Then, I went to I think the website was like spacemilk.com. It actually doesn't look that bad. It doesn't have a bunch of Franken fuels in it. It's not like the Soylent. But, anyways, I thought it was interesting. It got me thinking, “Well, I should ask Tim if there's any  vendors or folks who are going to be the expert people you've discovered lately, who are doing some cool things in like either meal replacement or supplements.” Because I know when people go to the summit, they're often walking around the expo floor trying out all these different drinks, and brews, and blends, and capsules, and meals, and bars. But, is there anything particularly cool you think that's going to be interesting this year?

Tim: In terms of meal replacements, a really amazing point you raise because there's things like this is food company, and there's H.U.E.L., and all this stuff. And, people come to me and say, “Oh, yeah, I'm super healthy. I eat H.U.E.L.” In the UK, it's called human fuel, H.U.E.L. But, in fact, it's got cyanocobalamin. For instance, B12, which is not the active form. It's got various other crap added to it. And, people think they're having a healthy meal replacement.

Ben: Probably, synthetic folic acid, I would imagine.

Tim: Exactly, exactly. And, it's like all of them are like this. And, they're like even some of my smartest most successful friends think that they're doing the right thing by eating some of these plant, these meal replacements were often plant milk in them and plant-based. I just think there's such a big gap in the market for a very, very clean meal replacement and shake with none of the crap in it. So, that's something, you know, I haven't been able to source just yet. 

But, in terms of supplements, we've got probably about eight or nine different supplement brands at the conference. We cap it of that kind of level. Because there's so many available, and I don't just want a conference field of supplements. But, we've got SuperBotanicals, which are tinctures, super clean tinctures. So, there's one from libido, one for sleep, one for meditation, and various other things which is a really nice brand. I've been testing for the last few months.

Ben: What's the brand?

Tim: SuperBotanicals.

Ben: SuperBotanicals. Okay. And, this is like a tincture that you would put into your mouth and hold for a while?

Tim: Yes, that's right. Yeah. And, they're actually — like every single brand at the conference obviously has been vetted by me. And, that means I've tested every single product, or I've used every single product, or do use the products that are on the floor. So, that's probably the newest kid on the block. In terms of what I really do like, and I'm not sure if you're familiar or have worked on them or not, but Timeline Nutrition, the urolithin A guys. 

Ben: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: I love their urolithin A supplement actually. And, I especially like the whey protein. Like, if there is a meal replacement, it's that.

Ben: Yeah. And, that's just like a clean whey protein, that they've added urolithin A, which is kind of like an age reversal longevity type of compound that acts as a cellular protectant, repairs DNA a little bit. It has some mitochondrial enhancement properties. It's very interesting. Because you can actually make it yourself in your gut from the right type of probiotic strains, or a wide intake of a variety of fermented foods. And then, you can also produce quite a bit from a lot of the fibers and oils and components of something like wild blueberries. But, from what I understand, Timeline has kind of like hyper-concentrated it. I have a bunch of their stick packs up in my pantry and I'll occasionally toss one into my smoothie. But, that's a big one for you?

Tim: Yeah. I love it. I mean, it's one thing that I have every single day, in terms of supplement like that. I just find that it works well for me. They've just actually sent me the new face cream, morning and night face cream. And, they said that it really helps with tissue regeneration.

Ben: They sent that to me, too. I started using it last week. People make fun of me because I have like a whole pantry full of all these skin care products that get randomly sent to me. And, you know, it's like six or one half a dozen the other. But, it is interesting to put your urolithin A in a skin compound. It seems to make sense, and I think I checked out a little bit of the research on their website, and doesn't look half bad. It's obviously a clean cream or lotion. 

And, you talk about the meal replacement thing, Tim. It's funny because, you know, I have a supplements company, KION. And, we're like super simple over there, right? We choose really good ingredients, but we try to make supplements that aren't super fancy. Not all these crazy formulations and things that can be difficult to source, and keep in stack, and hunt down raw ingredients for. 

But, I remember a few years ago, I actually looked into formulating a meal replacement that because of its complexity and weirdness and the uphill battle with the flavor profile as you'll note as soon as I explain what it is. We didn't really bring it to market. You can make it yourself. It's essential amino acids. I tried to get as close to like the composition of breastmilk as possible, with a little bit of extra fatty acids and proteins. But, you put this into a blender on ice. You do a couple scoops of amino acids, like 10 grams or so of amino acids. Then, you add colostrum. And then, you use ketones because actually — or you could use MCT oil powder as well. And then, you use like a really good monounsaturated fat source. Like, an olive oil, or an avocado oil, or a macadamia nut oil, or what have you. About tablespoon of that, a couple scoops of aminos, a couple scoops of colostrum, and then, like around 30, 45 mil of these ketone esters. And, you blend all that with ice. And, there's a low-hanging fruit and an idea for anybody who wants to get into a complex meal replacement formula idea. But, I would certainly sign off on that one. I've done it a few times. And, I mean considering you've got like in a giant smoothie bowl, like maybe 200 calories. And, it's satisfying a ton of different needs across the board, which would be amazing too if you're trying to lose weight and not have high-calorie intake. That's my meal replacement blend idea.

Tim: That sounds amazing. I mean, with the colostrum, to be honest. I love that stuff. We've actually got a brand that's doing a super clean grass-fed colostrum at the conference this year. But, one of the supplements I do want to give a shout-out to, or should I say talk about right now, is the Bio-regulators. So, there's a brand called, I think it's Profound Health. They do thymus gland. They do prostate gland. They do kidneys. They do liver. They do red blood cell. They do bone marrow. Like, Bio-regulators are — obviously, peptides are very regulated.

Ben: Bio-regulatory peptides, yeah. 

Tim: Exactly, yeah. So, peptides, in terms of injectables in the UK, aren't allowed yet other than for research purposes. But, Bio-regulators, which are the capsule formulas are fantastic. So, I've been testing those for a few months now. I really like the Bone Marrow one. My body went in muscle testing. Kinesiology seems to really like the Bone Marrow one, specifically. So, I've used that one quite a lot. It's one of the exciting brands for me at the conference actually this year because I wanted a bio-regulated brand for a long time.

Ben: Yeah. I don't know if you heard my interview with Phil Micans, who's studied up on a lot of the work from Russia. Namely, the work of Dr. Khavinson on the decreased all-cause risk of mortality and a very impressive age reversal results in both rodent and human models. With the use of these bio-regulatory peptides, probably the most well-known being epitalon, or epithalon, depend how you want to pronounce it. And, based on what I've seen in my discussions with Phil, with Dr. Cook, with a few others in the peptide community. I've done for the past two years, twice a year, a 10-day stint of peptides. If you do them all, every oral one. You're the one for the thymus, for the liver, for the gonads, for the spleen, for the pancreas, et cetera, it's equivalent about 30 capsules a day. 

But, even though you can't do it over there in the UK, here in the U.S., there's a few companies that have a liquid injectable where it's all in liquid. And, the peptides don't interfere with one another. They're all mixed together. And, you just draw up a syringe with about 50 ccs in saline water, and you just inject that once like subcutaneously around the abs for 10 days. It's not one of those things where you feel like a million bucks right away, but you're kind of like looking at a lot of the longevity data and seeing what happens from a mitochondrial, and the telomere shortening, and a methylation clock standpoint. There's like almost 40 years of research in Russia on these things. Yet, they're just now hitting the U.S. It sounds like they're kind of new in the UK as well. But, oral or injectable bio-regulatory peptides, I think is an absolutely amazing idea. 

Tim: I think they're a game-changer, personally. As with peptides, in general. I mean, it's going to challenge the pharmaceutical industry in the coming years. I think once a bit more release. 

Ben: The FDA is being a little bit naughty about it over here. They don't like peptides very much, so it's kind of difficult.

Tim: Yeah, it's a shame. But, I mean I do think that once they're regulated and properly pharma manufactured and whatnot, I think it's going to be a good thing for the world when they are. But, in the meantime, the Bio-regulators are great. I'm very happy with them. I mean, I was testing several peptides at one point. One of them was KPV, which was an anti-fungal for my — I had a mold issue in my home. And so, clearing that out, and I found that that literally smacked me around the face. I had to be very careful with it. But, generally, they are great. But, that again, that's an injectable. The Bio-regulators in capsules are so easy, and I'd find them to be super effective.

Ben: Yeah. I mean like, it's kind of the same idea behind like organ glandulars. Like, there's companies over here in the U.S. like Ancestral Supplements. You know, about like a bottle of powdered thyroid, or a bottle of powdered liver, pancreas, or spleen. And, some people scoff at this idea of like supports. Like, if you eat a specific organ, it goes on to nourish the target organ in the body. But, they've actually done amino acid tracer studies on some of these glandulars and showed that the peptide fragments actually wind up in the actual organs in significant amounts based on the glandular extract. I haven't seen similar studies for the bio-regulatory peptides. I'm sure they exist. Probably, in Russian literature. But, based on the fact that these are fragments that are way shorter than just like eating the glandular, it's kind of like a hyper-concentrated version. I would not be surprised if the same thing is going on with the peptides.

And, speaking of peptides, by the way, you talk about KPV one, which is also amazing for pain and inflammation. But, one that my wife and I have been experimenting with a little bit on date nights, it's a troche. Actually, I just have a doctor and he calls into the compound pharmacist. And, I just have it set up to my house as a troche. But, it's amorphine, which is kind of like it's a disinhibitory type of compound. It kind of makes you all loosey-goosey and touchy-feely. Very similar something like oxytocin. And then, he compounds that with tadalafil, which is, of course, the active vasodilating component of Viagra, and PT-141, which is like the king of libido enhancing, like sex machine peptides. 

And, if my wife and I take one of those troches about half hour to dinner on a date, by the time the date's over, we can't keep our hands off each other for like a good six to seven hours. Like, it's crazy. So, obviously, not something you use every day. But, that stuff is amazing. The only side effect being, of course, you don't sleep well if you're a dude because of the intense plasmic effect of the PT-141. But, if you can overcome the effects of pitching a tent the entire night you're asleep, that's actually a pretty good stack. PT-141, amorphine in Tadalafil. 

Tim: I would love an intro. 

Ben: Okay, I'm just going to say his name because now his phone's probably going to blow up. But, it's Dr. Mike Major, down in Phoenix. He compounds it for me. Like, he gave me one once. Told me to try it out on a date night. I'm like, “Dude, where can I get more of these? These are amazing.” 

So, as far as the summit itself goes, anything else you think is going to be particularly interesting there? That you're excited about? Whether from an experiential standpoint. Like, any of the parties, or breakouts, or dinners, or speakers, or vendors, or anything like that?

Tim: One thing I got to say is, it's going to be the biggest one yet. So, that's number one. We've got more people than we've ever had before. So, we're looking for 2,000. We have on target for 2,500 biohackers, and there's 120 brands, which is so it's like nearly 30% bigger than last time. So, it's going to be a bigger experience. We've got a side event happening in Piccadilly Circus on the Thursday for our title sponsor, which is the Monk Ice Bath. I'm not sure if you saw that last year or not. Then, we'll have breathwork, ice bath, sauna, and the whole experiential side of things.

Ben: What's Piccadilly Circus?

Tim: In the center of London where the big lights are.

Ben: Yeah.

Tim: On the corner, basically, we're hiring that space there. So, we've got that on the Thursday for a side event. So, it's a really nice side event going on there. The Friday night is the VIP experience for the speakers, and the VIPs in the evening. It's my favorite part, actually. And then, over the weekend, we've got a Saturday night party at the venue. And then, Sunday, down at wind down party afterwards. And, I think actually, you're doing a Monday event as well, over at the Human Lab, I think.

Ben: Yeah. I think we're like a side biohacking event over there, too. So, there's plenty of excuses to go to London. It's June 16th through the 18th, right, Tim?

Tim: That's right. Yeah, 16 through 18. 

Ben: Yeah. I recommend if you're in the area. You know, what's funny. I know that you posted to your social media, Tim, asking if anybody had questions. I don't know if we'll have time to get to many of them today. But, I saw one question that came through was, “What are the opportunities and risks associated with using AI for health optimization and information?” I don't know if you have any thoughts about that. Maybe while you're noodling on that. 

I, actually prior to coming over to London for this upcoming summit, I use GPT and I think you're putting me up with like the King's Cross Hotel or something like that. I asked it for a good 2-mile walking itinerary for each day with every stop that I could make along the way to see London culture. Places that weren't really tourist traps, but that a lot of the locals frequented. I asked to give me a one- to two-paragraph summary of the meaning and the history behind each stop. And then, also, recommend a restaurant with good local farm-to-table style, organic food, for each night based upon that walking itinerary. 

And so, within like 60 seconds, it had spit out what I would normally pay a travel agent like, you know, a 1,000 bucks to create for me all right there, printable, entire walking itinerary for London, which is pretty interesting. Not that I want to put any travel agents out of a job. Hopefully, this just allows travel agents to scale what they do far more effectively. And, by using the right prompts to do a great deal of good for their current clients. But, what do you think about the emergence of AI and GPT, and where that might tie into what you're doing with health optimization or biohacking?

Tim: I think the application for it is going to be amazing when they allow it for just discussing medical terms or medical things. Not that we sit necessarily in the medical side of things, but anything that chat thinks is medical-esque, it says we can't diagnose. But, I heard last week that actually that they used AI to give it a load of symptoms that someone was having. And, it successfully diagnosed a 1 in 100,000 chance, correctly diagnosed someone's condition. 

So, I would say, if you're hunting around for a doctor in the future and you can't seem to get to the bottom of what you've got going on, you know, Chat AI for instance can look at everything and give you the odds of what it could be. So, I think that it's potentially massive for the future. But, I do think considering who owns it and that it's not allowing medical diagnosis or support right now, that it could be limited from doing so.

Ben: Right. That of privacy and security issues are the main concern for me. Obviously, if you're using GPT frequently to diagnose health issues. Well, if you're like me, your health information mostly out there in public anyways. There's all the lab tests and stuff I push out online. But, for the average person who wants privacy protection, you should proceed with caution. It's kind of like self-googling or using Dr. Google but on steroids. Particularly, if you use these newer autonomous agents, which basically use GPT-4. And, you'll tell it something like whatever, “I have a strange growth on my right forearm,” and it'll go down this deep rabbit hole. I'll tell you, it'll say, “Okay. Step one. We're going to take a picture of this, and do this, this and this. Next, I want you to install this browser extension, and this app to your phone, which are going to allow you to upload this in high-pixel format so that AI can take a closer look at it.” And then, “The next step is here's the list of different telemedicine experts who are connected to these apps who can help you.” Like, it literally is like putting the computer to work for you, which is pretty amazing. 

And then, I guess from less of a GPT state standpoint, some of these new voice and video recognition technologies, like there's one I've been messing around with called AmaTone. They originated with research on the ability to be able to diagnose or early detect COVID, and it's all based on voice signature data. And now, it's to the point where it can detect certain deficiencies. certain areas of muscular tightness. And, I raise an eyebrow on it, and I did a few different AmaTone analysis and it correlated with almost 100% accuracy to symptoms, to bloodwork, to muscle tightness, to areas of previous injury. It's nuts! 

And then, a similar device called the Attune. Uses face recognition blood flow technology to look at HRV, blood pressure, heart rate, stress levels, and brain wave patterns based on a video analysis that takes like 90 seconds of your face. So, I think some of these new technologies kind of like that'll tricorder in Star Trek, that literally can be used from your phone via your voice and video analysis to detect and identify different symptoms and medical issues. Sometimes, in a very preventive fashion. It's intriguing. I think we're kind of just at the cusp of all the different technology that's going to be at our fingertips. Again, similar to a travel agent, not to put a doctor out to have a job, but to instead hopefully allow doctors to go out and do even greater things with potentially a little bit of extra time on their hands. You know, like finding the cure for cancer or whatever.

Tim: Imagine we could fit it in Oura data, or MyFitnessPal, or recent bloodworks, or microbiome, you know, or recent symptoms, and it diagnosed from a 360 is much better than any doctor or any functional practitioner, any standalone test could do. It's pretty crazy, isn't it?

Ben: Yeah. It is pretty impressive. So, I know that, gosh, if you guys are listening, you want to come geek out with a bunch of people and just like talk about this stuff at parties till you're blue in the face, and go to some amazing meetup events, check out all these expo floor gadgets, lay in that cool overpriced bed Tim was talking about, and everything else, come to the summit. 

I'll link to everything that Tim and I talked about in the shownotes at BenGreenfieldLife.com/TimGray2. I got like a link and a code for people to save on a ticket. I forget what it is, but I'll put that in there. Or you can go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/calendar if you want to check out the London events and everything I'm up to over there, and get a discount on either a VIP ticket or one of the regular tickets. But, it'd be cool to see a lot of podcast listeners come out. And, Tim and I will both be there. So, you can come say hi to us and talk to us about any questions you have from this podcast. Listening to two crazy dudes talk about the unproven biohacking modalities that I hope there's someday get proved by science, right?

Tim: For sure. They're happening one by one.

Ben: Yeah, yeah. Well, awesome, Tim. Well, it's always a pleasure talking to you. And, I guess I'll see you in what? Less than two months or so.

Tim: Yeah, in six weeks, mate. 

Ben: Alright, cool. Well, folks. Thanks for listening in. I'm Ben Greenfield, along with the great Tim Gray from the Health Optimization Summit in London. Again, shownotes are at BenGreenfieldLife.com/TimGray2. Spelled with an A, TimGray, the number two. Thanks for listening and have an amazing week.

Alright, folks. It's coming up quick. VIP event with me that occurs during the time that I am in London for the Health Optimisation Summit. I'm throwing in a private VIP meetup at HUM2NLabs with Dr. E over there. This is one of the most advanced biohacking facilities I've ever stepped foot into. We're opening up to a select group of VIPs, very small group. You could be one of them. Kicks off at 5:30 p.m. in London on Monday, June 19th. You're going to get to network with me and a bunch of the other biohacking enthusiasts and physicians there. We will do a special talk on age reversal. There'll be a Q&A of variety of healthy organic foods, biohack cocktails, a swag bag, where you get to try IV cryotherapy, red light therapy, hyperbaric oxygen, different types of nootropics, and smart drugs that they have there. So, it's going to be a pretty cool event. 

And, you can get in now if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/HUM2NLondon. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/HUM2NLondon. If that's much for you to remember, just go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/calendar, and everywhere I'm going that I'm speaking where you can join me. All the events are also there on the calendar at BenGreenfieldLife.com/calendar. But this HUM2N Event Monday, June 19th is going to be a good one. 

Ben:  More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh entertaining, well-informed, and often outside-the-box approach to discovering the health, and happiness, and hope that we all crave. So, I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And, if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. It means a lot.

Tim Gray is the UK’s Leading Biohacker and Founder of the Health Optimisation Summit (use code BENGREENFIELD to save 10% off regular and VIP tickets). As a psychology specialist and a successful businessman, Tim founded and invested in multiple 7-figure businesses, including digital marketing agencies and London’s first private Hyperbaric Oxygen Clinic.

During our discussion, you'll discover: