Unschooling, Plant Medicine, Anti-Aging, Veganism vs. Carnivore & More With The Mind Pump Guys!

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health wellness biohacking
Body, Diet & Nutrition, Education, Fitness, Longevity & Age Reversal, Mind-Spirit, Podcast, Podcast-new, Purpose

Every so often, I get together with my fellow fitness-freak podcasting friends—the good fellas from the Mind Pump studios—and we take a rather rough around the edges, occasionally drug or alcohol-infused, definitely entertaining, and edgy foray into everything from longevity to life to religion to parenting to biohacking and beyond.

These always turn out to be incredibly popular podcast episodes, and this latest one, the fifth in our series, is just as crazy as all my other Mind Pump podcasts, including:

  1. The Mysterious Kuwait Muscle-Building Phenomenon, The Too-Much-Protein Myth, Anabolic Triggering Sessions & More With The Mind Pump Podcast Crew.
  2. The Mysterious Micro-Workouts, Turning On Your Butt, Overdosing With Melatonin & More With The Mind Pump Guys
  3. Six-Egg Breakfasts, Ketosis For Bodybuilders, Resetting Weed Tolerance, Kratom Experimentation & Much More With The Mind Pump Guys!
  4. The Official Edgy, Explicit & Epic Podcast With Me & The Mind Pump Crew: Longevity, Religion, Parenting, Biohacking, The Joe Rogan Debates, Snake Oil, Pseudoscience & Beyond.

The hosts of Mind Pump claim to “pull back the curtain on the mythology, snake oil, and pseudo-science that pervades the fitness industry and present science-backed solutions that result in increased muscular development and performance while simultaneously emphasizing health.”

The Mind Pump guys are, in no particular order of importance:

health wellness biohackingSal DiStefano (follow on Instagram) was 14 years old when he touched his first weight and from that moment he was hooked. Growing up asthmatic, frequently sick and painfully skinny, Sal saw weightlifting as a way to change his body and his self-image. In the beginning, Sal’s body responded quickly to his training but then his gains slowed and then stopped altogether. Not one to give up easily, he began reading every muscle building publication he could get his hands on to find ways to bust through his plateau. He read Arnold’s Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, Mentzer’s Heavy Duty, Kubrick’s Dinosaur Training, and every muscle magazine he could find; Weider’s Muscle and Fitness, Flex, Iron Man and even Muscle Media 2000. Each time he read about a new technique or methodology he would test it out in the gym. At age 18 his passion for the art and science of resistance training was so consuming that he decided to make it his profession and become a personal trainer. By 19 he was managing health clubs and by 22 he owned his own gym. After 17 years as a personal trainer he has dedicated himself to bringing science and truth to the fitness industry.


health wellness biohacking

Adam Schafer (follow on Instagram) is an IFBB men’s physique pro and fitness expert. Adam made his entrance into the fitness world 14 years ago and has continued to send shock waves throughout the community ever since. He is a man of many talents who wears many hats. He is first and foremost a certified fitness expert who has an insatiable desire to help people in need of major lifestyle changes and daily accountable motivation. He is also an incredibly driven entrepreneur and business-minded individual with a vision that continually challenges his colleagues and peers to think bigger and achieve more.



Justin Andrews (follow on Instagramhas an incredible passion to disrupt the personal training industry and create groundbreaking programs and tools that fitness professionals and clients alike can benefit from. The fitness industry in general needs a massive facelift to speak more to the generation growing up with a more advanced technology tool kit. Justin’s approach is to create programs that utilize technology as it advances and cut through the millions of options people face everyday when seeking specific information relating to their fitness needs. The great thing about where we are today is how easy it is to access information, the bad part about accessing all this information is how much misinformation is out there to weed through. As a health and fitness professional with a proven track record here in the heart of the Silicon Valley, Justin Andrews will keep working tirelessly to keep people educated and connected to quality personal trainers long into the future.


Doug Egge (follow on Instagram) received his first gym membership as a gift from his dad when he was 16 years old. Rocky III had just come out and he was determined to build a body like Stallone. It never happened. Despite following the advice of muscle magazines and busting his butt in the gym, Doug saw minimal gains over the next 30 years. Then he was introduced to Sal Di Stefano by his chiropractor who recommended he work with Sal to eliminate muscle imbalances that were causing lower back issues. Sal’s unique approach, often 180 degrees different from what Doug had read in books and magazines, produced more results in a matter of months than he had experienced in the 30 years prior. Doug, with an extensive marketing and media production background, recognized Sal’s unique gift and perspective was missing from the fitness world and suggested that they should join forces. Doug and Sal have since produced life-altering programs such as the No BS 6-Pack Formula and MAPS Anabolic. Doug is very pleased to have the opportunity to work with Adam and Justin as Producer of Mind Pump.

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-A woman's proper place in the home [5:15]

-How to make a killer pesto from plants in your backyard [7:45]

  • My wild pesto recipe:


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Wild plant pesto time! The whole video is in my story for you to watch so you could see how I made this and where I harvested all of my wild plants during my last hike. Into a food processor, blend 4 cups of #wildplants of choice (nettle, mint, rosemary, basil and dandelion is what I used), 1 cup nuts (I used pine nuts, but walnuts are also pretty good), 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil, 1/2 cup parmesan cheese (or nutritional yeast or nut cheese if you don't want dairy) and 4 garlic cloves and blend until creamy consistency. Top with sea salt and black pepper to taste and serve! Btw…parmigiano is a largely lactose free cheese…. so this recipe works great even for people that need to avoid dairy because they are lactose intolerant… A couple products I used for this were Fresh Pressed Olive Oil Club olive oil and @hukitchen crackers. Links in bio! #delicious #nutritious #freshfood #cleaneating #foodporn #organicfood #superfoods #healthylifestyle #mindbodyspirit

A post shared by Ben Greenfield Fitness (@bengreenfieldfitness) on

-The benefits and challenges of unschooling [10:15]

  • Ben's kids are immersed in nature
  • Have a 2x/month podcast (video) with sponsors and everything
  • Document everything in case the state audits their education
  • Book: 21 Lessons for the 21st Century
  • We need free-thinking, resilient, adaptive workers
  • A free-thinker can invest in productive activities if and when AI replaces their jobs
  • Storyboarding – prep for what the kids are going to learn
  • There are no rules in the Greenfield home – educate about the consequences of their decisions
  • The adults must provide the example
  • Biggest challenge: Doing standardized tests
  • Jiu-jitsu, camps, clinics, etc. provide socialization
  • They'll go on a rite of passage when they're 13

-Discussion on ego dissolution [25:11]

  • Plant medicine
  • See yourself in a different light
  • Embrace greatness, or something different if you're ego is active
  • Eye gazing with one's mate
  • See each other as spirits, not bodies

-Increasing awareness and legality of nootropics [29:00]

  • Double-edged sword: incredibly powerful and dangerous
  • Of no use without personal discipline and a personal mission
  • Big $$$ to be made in the future
  • Connection between these and open relationships?
  • Do you want short-term pleasure or long-term legacy?
  • Nootropics can build a spiritual connection between two people

-Reconciling the use of nootropics with spiritual discipline [40:45]

  • Everything was put on the planet by our Creator for a specific purpose
  • Anything can be used for good or evil
  • Puritanical version of Christianity may be at odds with plant medicine

-How I put on several pounds of muscle in the last few months [45:15]

-Schwarzenegger's new film [51:50]

  • Game Changers documentary
  • Pushing a plant-based agenda; demonized the consumption of animal products
  • Lots of sleight of hand, misinformation
  • It's disingenuous to say one diet is superior for everyone
  • What did your ancestors eat, what are you genetically predisposed to eat?
  • Use blood, urine, stool testing to determine which supplementation is appropriate

-The forgotten psychological elements of food [1:02:30]

  • Foods that are not good for you physiologically may be good for you psychologically
  • Ex., bad relationships are worse than smoking
  • Comfort foods can balance the psyche
  • Slippery slope on psychological effects
  • Opportunity for entrepreneurs to create a healthy version of the comfort foods
  • Choose your battles: strict adherence to a diet vs. family bonding

-The proper balance between aging and acknowledging one's mortality [1:09:50]

  • Live a long life, but a high-quality life
  • We're put on the Earth for a purpose; the more we can take care of our bodies, the greater impact we can make
  • Historical evidence of men living hundreds of years
  • Exponential wisdom that can build up over time
  • What Ben has learned from his many guests who specialize in anti-aging:
  • 6 variables for mitochondrial health

-Whether my days as an endurance athlete numbered [1:23:10]

-And much more!

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– The MAPS training plans designed by the Mind Pump crew for fat loss, muscle gain, mobility, sports performance and more.

– Book: 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari

– Autophagy mimicking stack Ben takes at night:

BGF podcast w/ Paul Saladino on the Carnivore Diet

– BGF podcast: “The Dark Side of Fasting” w/ Dr. Mercola

Game Changers documentary

BGF podcast w/ Dr. William Seeds on peptides

– Book: Life Span by Dr. David Sinclair

– Book: Earthing by Clint Ober

BGF podcast w/ Clint Ober

Episode sponsors:

Kion Coffee: Carefully selected and roasted for taste, purity, high antioxidants and health. Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, receive a 10% discount off your entire order when you use discount code: BGF10.

kApex: kApex breaks down the fats you eat into fatty acids, which allows you to increase the fatty acid oxidation inside your mitochondria both in your muscle and liver. Get 20% off your order when you use coupon code: GREENFIELDKX

Four Sigmatic: I’ve been using Four Sigmatic products for a while now and I’m impressed by the efficacies of their mushroom products. I use them. I like them. I support the mission! Receive 15% off your Four Sigmatic purchase when you use discount code: BENGREENFIELD

Felix Gray GlassesDon’t go another day looking at screens without the help of some Felix Grays. Visit Felix Gray's site and get free shipping and 30 days of risk-free returns or exchanges.

Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for Adam, Sal, Justin or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

Ask Ben a Podcast Question

5 thoughts on “Unschooling, Plant Medicine, Anti-Aging, Veganism vs. Carnivore & More With The Mind Pump Guys!

  1. Paul says:

    Ben, great stuff. What’s the dosage of oxytocin you use for your date night “Love Cocktail”? Thanks

  2. Evan Bowers says:

    Hey Ben – Listened to this episode the other day. One area that particularly stood out to me was y’all’s conversation around vegetarianism and how diets should be personalized to the individual. Another area that stood out was if there were to be some sort of large public shift towards a specific diet (vegetarianism in this example) folks would need a lot more organization around what they need so they don’t wind up having nutrient deficiencies. You talk a lot about different kinds of foods and the properties they contain, how certain foods cause inflammation, and generally about how certain foods are good for a certain part of your body (ex. walnuts are good for your brain). My question is where is the best place to learn more about this these things (plants in particular – I’m a vegetarian)? Are there some good books on the subject that you could point my way?

  3. Cara Zaller, CNS says:

    Where do you get the oxytocin?

  4. PD says:

    Why all the swearing?

  5. Courtney Amann says:

    Hey Ben! Listening to podcast on unschooling and you mentioned wanting to ensure your kids can comfortably do standardized testing. Maybe try enrolling them in a summer course or some other short term class with testing.

    Thank you for all you do!

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