Why Your DNA Is Worthless (& What You Need To Focus On Instead).

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Your DNA alone is worthless.

So claim my guests on today's show, Dr. Matt Dawson and Dr. Mike Mallin of Wild Health, with locations in Versailles, KY and Bend, OR. I first interviewed these guys in the episode “How To Use Precision Medicine To Enhance Athletic Performance, Defy Aging, Balance Hormones, Fix The Heart & Much More.” and now they're back to talk all things DNA and genetics.

Dr. Matt Dawson is a precision medicine physician in Lexington, KY, co-host of the Wild Health Podcast, and has been obsessed with performance optimization as long as he can remember. He received scholarships to play two sports in college even with “minimal talent” because of his voracious reading and implementation of any fitness or nutritional techniques that would give him an edge. Dr. Dawson continued that obsession in medical school, and as a physician, he has won national awards for education, innovation, and leadership. He has lectured in over 20 countries and trained thousands of other physicians through live lectures, online education, two textbooks, and an educational app.

Dr. Dawson combines his training in genomics and functional medicine to give personalized, precise medical guidance. His obsession with performance optimization has morphed from, initially athletic, to now mental performance and longevity. Whether it's a professional athlete or a grandparent optimizing their mental clarity and mobility to keep up with their grandkids, Dr. Dawson is passionate about helping everyone perform at their absolute peak.

Dr. Mike Mallin is a physician in Bend, OR who is obsessed with health performance and precision medicine and is co-founder of the Wild Health Podcast. He completed medical school in South Carolina and trained in Emergency Medicine in Salt Lake City, UT where he competed in several ultramarathons and found his love for the mountains and performance.

Mike currently practices in Bend, OR and Lexington, KY in his precision medicine clinics. He is also co-founder of the Ultrasound Podcast, an educational podcast that has taught thousands of physicians all over the world how to use ultrasound.

During this discussion, you'll discover:

-Why DNA data in and of itself is insufficient…6:30

  • Epigenomics: Genomics taken in context of the whole person
  • Get a sense of what a person's genes are transcribing via lab values
  • Understand how lifestyle and habits can affect specific genes (ex. PGC1A)
  • Needed a simplified means of interpreting genetic results
  • Falsehoods have been noted in DNA reports
  • A comprehensive analysis includes lifestyle, preferences, microbiome, etc.
  • DNA reports will occasionally translate RSID's wrong
  • Misreading data can lead to unhealthy lifestyle decisions

-What sets Drs. Dawson and Mallin's new software apart from other DNA software…13:26

  • Lifestyle and patient preferences factor heavily
  • Microbiome data is important
  • Looking for a more comprehensive picture of a patient than simple data
  • Cholesterol levels, cardiovascular conditions, etc. are taken into account

-The results from the software thus far…18:11

  • “Whole picture” approach allows for more accurate diagnoses and appropriate recommendations
  • Cardiovascular risk down  by over 50% in less than 6 months on average
  • LP(a) decreases more than 2 years of statin treatment
  • LDL-P down an average of 357 points per patient
  • CRP down over 50% in patients who start off with it elevated
  • Average HRV increase of 15 from genomic-based training programs
  • All mostly without pharmaceuticals

-How Matt and Mike test for aging and their “gold standard” longevity protocol…23:32

  • Get the basics right first: sleep, environment, exercise, sunlight, etc.
  • Personalized: genomics, preference-based
  • Get biological age first:
    • True Age Test
    • DNA Age Test
  • Horvath Clock tests methylation in the body; telomere test results have been erratic
  • Pulse press cycle is important
  • MOTS-C
  • Resveratrol
  • NAD
  • Article: Growth hormone, DHEA, and metformin reversed aging
  • Use peptides w/ caution; opt for natural treatments first
  • Exercise protocols used during anabolic phase of treatment
  • Dr. John Douillard's Colorado Cleanse
  • Dr. Valter Longo's Prolon Kit

-NAD protocols used by Mike, Matt, and Ben…43:00

-Peptides used in the Wild Health practice…50:23

  • Semax for neuro-cognitive  strength
  • Selank for anxiety
  • Dihexa for neural optimization
  • CJC-1295
  • Ipamorelin
  • Epithalon
  • GHK
  • Zinc Thymulin
  • BPC 157 and Thymosin Beta 500 for injury recovery

-Goings on at the Kentucky Castle…53:48

  • Spa, float tank, cryotherapy, sauna on site
  • Food and farming on site
    • Organic garden
    • Sheep and goats
    • Chickens
  • April 7-9 conference
    • Ben will be speaking
    • Teach how to apply what's been discussed in this episode
    • Open to the public, but focused on physicians and practitioners

-How Mike and Matt practice what they preach on an individual level…56:45

-And much more…

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

Wild Health MD website

April 7-9 event at the castle (Stay tuned to my calendar for details.)

DNA methylation age of human tissues and cell types

Growth hormone, DHEA, and metformin reversed aging


– Dr. John Douillard's Colorado Cleanse

– Dr. Valter Longo's Prolon Kit

Quicksilver Push Catch Liver detox

Weston A. Price diet

Thorne Resveracel

MiCacao cacao tea

Episode sponsors:

Kion: My personal playground for new supplement formulations, Kion blends ancestral wisdom with modern science. Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, receive a 10% discount off your entire order when you use discount code: BGF10.

Organifi Glow: A plant-based beverage that helps support the body’s natural ability to produce collagen, smooth fine lines and wrinkles, and protect the skin from sun exposure and toxins. Receive a 20% discount on your entire order when you use discount code: BENG20

-Beekeeper's Naturals: A wellness company specializing in innovative nutraceuticals made from healing hive compounds and plant-based ingredients. Get 15% off your order when you use discount code: BEN

Vuori: Activewear and athletic clothing for ultimate performance. Vuori is built to move and sweat in, yet designed with a West Coast aesthetic that transitions effortlessly into everyday life. Receive 25% off your first order when you use the link Vuoriclothing.com/Ben

Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for Dr. Dawson, Dr. Mallin, or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

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18 thoughts on “Why Your DNA Is Worthless (& What You Need To Focus On Instead).

  1. Nic Kenyon says:

    I am a Crohn’s patient(severe) that is on Stelara every 8 weeks and I also suffer from degenerative disk disease in my lower back which causes severe pain along which chronic pain from a couple dozen surgeries on my stomach. Any ways I am looking to start or look at injecting peptides to go along with my work outs and other supplements-protein powder-testosterone booster-memory and cognitive booster- and daily vitamins. Just looking to see if I could get any more info on what and how and when on injecting peptides. Thank you very much

  2. David Kim says:

    I’ve been with WH for 4 months and there are definite pros AND cons.

    • The doctor I worked with was kind, helpful, and knowledgeable.

    • 4-month lock-in, required payments, even if no services are rendered. Not only does this show a lack of confidence in their offerings, but this is also indicative of their integrity as a company.
    • Out of pocket for all tests.
    • You meet with the doctor 1x per year. Additional visits = additional money.

    Your stay will likely depend primarily on the disease(s) you have or the goals you’re trying to achieve. The value of their offerings goes down considerably after the initial visit with the doctor and they dive into the results.

  3. Joshua Scott says:

    Is there a promo code for a consultation at Wild Health?

  4. Cal says:

    Hi Ben great show! Quick question. When taking NR supplements I actually had a gout attack and after some reading found that there could be an increase in uric acid. Would a NMN supplement or NAD+ supplement do the same?

  5. Joseph says:

    How do I RSVP to the January 31 LA book party ?

  6. Scott Reyman says:

    What a great podcast! Thanks all! The DNA Company, 23 and Me and Wild Heath. Which one would I get the most usable and comprehensive data that I could use immediately into my life? Wild Health seems to be more thoughtful and personalized. Thanks!


    1. Jordan says:

      Genetic testing by Bob Miller of Tree of Life Health is the best IMO.

      1. Matt Dawson says:

        Hi Scott and Jordan,

        I think there are many, many companies that do a great job with genetic testing. I think the power comes in a relationship with someone who can help you correlate it with your lab testing, lifestyle, preferences, and life goals. That’s what we do at Wild Health. Genetic testing is just a small component of that. Important…….but just a small part.

  7. Mark McKoy says:

    Great podcast. Do you have a link to any studies that you mentioned on High intensity repeat training vs. zone 2 training on mitochondrial biogenesis?

  8. Dan says:

    Does Matt add a raw egg to his coffee?

    1. Yes, I do! It’s completely safe……and delicious. Really nice frothiness like a latte from the protein and fat in the egg.

  9. KC Barrett says:

    Great podcast. Had a question if wild health still has that list of functional doctors in other states? Cant find on their new website

    1. Mike Sireci says:

      I went to their site for the same reason and couldn’t find it either. I would love it if they’d make that list available.

      1. Rebecca says:

        Good podcast. I had the same question regarding the Wild Health Dr list. I could not find anything on the website. Maybe someone from Ben’s team can clarify.

        1. Matt Dawson says:

          Hi Rebecca, Mike and KC,

          We don’t have a “directory” per se. Most of our doctors have licenses in multiple states. We can see patients from any state and actually anywhere in the world. Sorry for the confusion!

  10. Fed Fan says:

    Have you guys checked whether the links go anywhare? For example the thorne links lead to 404. A link checking program

    should be run on all your webpages.

    1. All Thorne links seem to be working on my end. Could you comment with the specific link you're having trouble with?

      1. Pete says:

        It doesn’t work if you live in Canada, that’s why. Does same for me.

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